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To A Million And Beyond
Discovering how respected brands made their first million.
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To A Million And Beyond
#001: Chroma Coatings - It Was Always About Relationships
From Paintbrushes to 10 Million-Dollar Success
Welcome to 'To A Million And Beyond' with Matt Willis of Wizard of Ads! In this episode, we're joined by AJ Dressler, founder and owner of Chroma Coatings, a painting company based in Raleigh, North Carolina. AJ shares the story of Chroma's growth from its founding in 2017 to nearly $10 million in revenue. Discover critical insights on overcoming roadblocks, the pivotal role of relationships, and the strategies that fueled their rapid expansion. Learn about AJ's early experiences in the painting industry, the challenges of scaling a business, and the impact of Chroma's culture of compassion and family. Dive into compelling stories from their work across North Carolina to Florida, and be inspired by Chroma's commitment to community outreach through the Alpha Foundation in Honduras and Mexico. Join us for an inspiring conversation on business growth, resilience, and the profound importance of relationships.
00:00 Introduction and Company Philosophy
00:17 Meet AJ Dressler and Chroma Coatings
03:10 AJ's Journey: From Canada to Chroma
05:39 Building a Business on Relationships
11:09 Challenges and Growth in the Painting Industry
14:35 The Importance of Company Culture
22:31 Recruitment and Employee Relations
24:51 Overcoming Early Hurdles
26:30 Reflecting on the Tough Years
26:50 Crossing the Million Dollar Threshold
26:59 Challenges of Commercial Projects
27:55 Navigating Financial Struggles
29:20 Expanding to New Markets
32:09 Transitioning to Quality Pricing
34:54 Building Relationships in Business
38:19 The Importance of Mentorship
40:46 Forming Strategic Partnerships
41:54 The Birth of the Alpha Foundation
42:46 Supporting Central American Communities
49:54 Advice for Aspiring Business Owners
51:06 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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That was one of the first conversations we had was what is this about? Is it about money or is it about relationships? And from day one, it was always about relationships. And so we have held to that and we will continue to hold to that until this company ceases to exist.
Matt:Welcome my friends to To A Million And Beyond. This is Matt Willis, partner with Wizard of Ads. Today we're talking to AJ Dressler, founder and owner of Chroma Coatings. Founded in 2017 as a residential painting company in Raleigh, North Carolina. They broke their first million in revenue five years later. In this episode, you'll learn about overcoming roadblocks, keeping the faith, and a secret AJ used to grow Chroma to nearly$10 million in revenue and counting. I hope you enjoy. Our conversation previously, AJ, you guys are at a revenue number that immediately when I heard it, I'm like, they are doing something right. what was your vision when you got started with Chroma? What did you think was realistically possible?
AJ Dressler:When I first started Chroma, the whole purpose of the company was to really provide a place for our painters and for the people that work with us to be to be loved, to be able to grow. And it really was on people. I think a lot of times, especially in the trades you get into this and it's very much, Hey, what kind of revenue dollars can I hit? When we started Chroma, that was never a conversation. Honestly, as we've continued to grow it, it's the furthest thing from our conversations. We obviously have to talk about revenue and numbers and what are we going at goals and all of that, but We've operated on the belief that if you focus on your people, everything else falls into place. And that's whether that is the people that work with you and for you, or if that is your clients and the relationships you're building outside of that. And so we were able to scale quickly. It started I was painting and trying to figure this experience thing out. I had worked in the industry all my life. Really did a little stint in the tech industry, which also helped with how we operate and how we build culture here.
Matt:Yeah.
AJ Dressler:And from all there, we just kept building on and on. We started hiring crews and bringing them into our Chroma family and today, yeah, we have a really cool operation from North Carolina all the way out into Florida. So it's been awesome to build. And I would say one thing Justin always asks as Justin's our marketing officer here and a partner, but is, how big do you wanna take this? And that's one of those questions that I remember the first time you asked me going I really don't know. And as we have grown, I still don't actually know that answer because it just keeps snowballing and getting bigger and we're doing just so many cool things across the board. And so the long answer to your short question is I do feel like I didn't see this thing growing at a pace that it's growing now, and I didn't see it becoming and evolving into what it is now.
Matt:So take us back. You started a painting company back Canada, and that was after I. Three generations before you being in the painting industry. So walk me through your thought process when you started that painting company and how that ended up, because that was right before you moved down to the states, correct.
AJ Dressler:Correct. Yeah. My grandfather had a painting business in Ohio and I worked there growing up as a kid. I started by picking up paint chip outta driveways. That was my job. And quite frankly, just didn't really enjoy it, but it was a job and I liked it and I knew it. In Canada it became more of a necessity, right? Like I was going through high school, getting ready to go into college, and it was, Hey you gotta make money somehow. And where we grew up, there was really like three options, I think one you could work at I don't know if anyone's familiar with Canada. You could work at Tim Horton's and serve coffee and donuts. There was also a lot of agriculture around there, so you could work in the fields. Harvesting corn, it's called corn detasseling. And kids would go and walk through these fields from 5:00 AM till, three in the summertime and just, it's horrendous. I actually, I got a job driving, these tasseling machines, these big tractors with these arms that just cut the top of the corn off. And I got fired. I got fired from that cause I was horrible at it. I ruined a lot of livelihood and a lot of fields. So I think I did that for, I dunno, two or three weeks. And then they never called me back. And I said, why is no one calling me back? And it was because I had just ruined farmers' fields all across Chatham, Ontario. Really sorry if anyone's listening to that about that. I kicked outta Canada because of that. But the other thing was, I knew painting and my dad's a pastor out in Canada and there people always asking about skilled labor painting and all that stuff. So I started, I think it was called dresser's painting or something like that out there. And did that through high school and through college. Once I graduated college, moved to Illinois for a quick stint where I did, foundation repair, for my uncle's company, Gila Tech out in Missouri, St. Louis area. Then moved to North Carolina where I started doing sales for a startup tech company. Did that for a little bit and then came back into paint.
Matt:So it sounds like the opportunity that you had in Canada, starting the business through high school really took a lot of the fear out of starting a business that would soon become Chroma.
AJ Dressler:When we grew up, my dad instilled in us Hey, work hard. Just work hard. And as we grew up, that's what we did. You work hard, you figure it out. And as Chroma started, I didn't really think of it as a, oh, what am I gonna do when I have employees or anything like that. It was just, you start and you just work. And again, it started with, me and other business partner at the time, it just started with us painting. So the stakes were low. And then once you start adding crews and start adding people, yeah, that comes into place a little bit where you, there many times when I remember talking to my wife Claire, saying, we're responsible for these people eating this week. And so we have to do it. Necessity really just kicks in. Just go sell, go build. And that drove me more than fear for sure.
Matt:So what was it like in marriage, as you start out this business and the uncertainty that inevitably comes with business? Was Claire immediately onboard? Did it take a level of convincing her?
AJ Dressler:No, she convinced me to do it. I think that's the biggest thing here is Claire's responsible for Chroma. I'll give her that, but she had said, Hey, why don't you just go and start this? And there was that part of, I don't know how that works. I don't have a degree in business. I have a degree in counseling and obviously did real well with that'cause I didn't even go into the field at all. How do you do this? How do you start that? She was the one that pushed for that. there's been a lot of hard conversations throughout the way of that, of, hey, we've got guys to take care of and all of that. But she has always been from the get go, all in, all bought in. And it's been cool to actually see as we continue to grow, just every year I'd say, Hey, this is the year, babe. We've got this. Like next year's, the year and every year. It just wasn't. And then there was a moment when it really started to snowball and take off and it's been cool to see her gradually go, yeah, we've got this is good.
Matt:Did you believe in yourself even during those difficult years? What was that like when you were like, I know it's gonna take off. I know it has potential, it just hasn't yet. How did you maintain steady in those seasons?
AJ Dressler:Hope.
Matt:Yeah,
AJ Dressler:At the end of the day it was, Hey, let's, we're building something. I like building things and yes, it's stressful and it can be terrifying. The unknown. However, I'm a firm believer, right? And hard work pays off. And so in those moments, it was more of, Hey, let me put my head down. Let me figure out what's going on and let's build. And since we're, I would say, a relationship based company, I think there's always that promise of what's next. So you have these conversations and when you can't see the immediate result, so like some of our biggest clients, it's because of relationships we've built five years ago, right? That it didn't immediately hit or affect us. But as we move forward, those relationships become stronger and then the dollars come in for it. So I would say. Internally. Yeah, I was terrified, but I've always believed that we've got this, and I think as soon as you start thinking you don't is when you can spiral really quickly and go into shutdown mode where you know everything, all the sudden, everything is just a bigger problem than it needs to be. But if you can just say, Hey, we got this. How do we have it? We'll sit down and take a step back and breathe for a second, then we can, move forward.
Matt:I think a lot of business owners have a bias toward thinking when they don't know what to do, they justify it. Oftentimes, as I'm thinking, I'm strategizing, I'm figuring out what the right approach is. But I think to your point, not always, but oftentimes it's really fear. That they're trying to cope
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:through. And it's really neat to
AJ Dressler:Agree.
Matt:like multiple times you've conveyed that you don't necessarily have a bias toward thinking You have a bias toward building.
AJ Dressler:Yes.
Matt:And by
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:you have other business partners surrounding you that can help you, make sure that you're thinking through things and make sure that, you're not being utterly and completely reckless. But having a bias
AJ Dressler:Yes.
Matt:action, I think is one of the most underrated skills in business ownership.
AJ Dressler:No, and I think that's, we say that a lot in this office. First, have the right team, right? But inaction is one thing we just, we have a really hard time sitting with. And again, don't be reckless, have good counsel between you, you and partners or even outside. But yeah, figure a way to continue moving.
Matt:Yeah, so you move down to Carolina, you get into the software world, experience, what a good culture can look like, and then you start, working at a local painting company where you identify massive industry issue in the form, probably multiple, but one in particular being communication conflict between painting crews and the sales reps. Was that something that you had experienced before at Dressler Painting
AJ Dressler:'cause the Dressler painting was me and my brothers. We had a lot of communication. My friend, too much actually. We took that work home and probably thought about it way too much, but, no, it was really an eye-opening experience. When you come from a culture that is fostered as, Hey, we're a team and a family, and that's what this tech company was where we're all in this together. We're all going for the same goals and let's get those goals. Let's go win. And then you get to this trade industry where I think this is probably common throughout, but it is every dollar and every cents matters, right? And going in there, I started doing sales for them. And I remember even just, the training process of, Hey you're tracking these margins and if you hit this, you make this. And again, these are all good things, don't get me wrong. The problem was that became the sole focus. And so you would have salespeople come in and they would just sell just to make that dollar. And then you'd have these painters come and go. This isn't the right project. Like we can't make money on this. And so the turnover just kept happening over and over again. And so it was really a stressful kind of cycle, right? Where you had salespeople that just were oblivious to the fact that everyone hated them. And then you had these painters that would just, they'd stick on for two, three jobs and then they'd get out and then you'd go find another painter. And it was one of those things that, man, it just, yeah, it created a lot of stress. Going from a culture of we're in this together to its every man form self that was quite quite an eye-opening experience.
Matt:And the challenge that you identified there is true across pretty much all of the trades. I was reading a book called Mr. Jenkins told me. The story of how Morris-Jenkins grew from a small HVAC company in Charlotte, North Carolina. Couple of million in revenue, all the way up to over$150m in revenue.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:one of the insights from that book was they were saying, just like most traffic collisions happen at intersections between two roads, Communication collisions happen between departments. And so You identified was your sales team at that organization and the, the skilled labor, the painters. There was an intersection that all sorts of. Miscommunications were happening. Incentives were misaligned. You were a sales rep, you had metrics that you wanted and needed to hit, but that didn't align with the
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:and what would work best for them. It just creates this whole mess.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:what made you feel like you could solve that problem? That permeates the vast majority of service businesses.
AJ Dressler:Yeah. I think as I progressed in that company, I became their production manager where, I was able to oversee sales the painters and the labor force. Basically I reported straight to the boss, right? And so I got a look under the hood of how this all work? And again, just realized that greed out there, whether intentional or not, was ingrained in everyone. And it came to the point where I was frustrated daily, trying to keep the peace the painters hated sales, hated the painters. No one really liked the boss. But all of that, daily turmoil, there's be a better way. Again, going back to that tech industry and that feeling of comradery and moving through the trenches together, because the work was hard, and it wasn't easy, but there's something about working together on that. And so I just felt like there's a better way to do it. Let's find, let's figure it out. I was going through a whole thing. I don't know if it was a crisis of who I was or whatever at the time trying to figure out what can I do? Is there a business I can start? Is there something I can do outside of this? And create something for myself. And I think that's, I've always had this weird inner entrepreneurial spirit. I didn't recognize it at the time, but yeah, at that point it was, I had thought through some different opportunities or whatever. Those things didn't work out and I thought I know paint. Why can't I, let's just make this better. Let's make this industry better.
Matt:And how did you figure out that unlock, because that's, again, going back to the intersection between sales and the painters. How did you go about, or do you feel like you have solved that? Intersection, if you will, and how.
AJ Dressler:Listen, I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I don't have all the answers for sure. When you build off of relationships and you focus on that, nothing else matters. And I think that part of this, something we do today, even in our own team, is there's times when our people in our office are picking up a paintbrush and they're working alongside the painters. There is no hierarchy here, right? Like I will be on site painting still alongside our guys just because that's what builds, this relationship. That's really what it's about. I started by being on the crew with a paintbrush and roller in my hand and learning what they're doing. How are they doing? Is there a better way? Are they being efficient? What can they teach me? How can I learn? I think a lot of times in business, the guy who starts thinks that he knows it all. And I saw this in that industry in particular of I know how to, I have a business degree or I did this and this in my life, and so I have all the answers. Instead of saying this guy has painted since he was four years old. He knows what he's doing. Listen to him. And I think that's how you break down those barriers between your, sales and production and all of that. Go work, figure it out. Learn, be humble. It's really, it's not rocket science.
Matt:One of the beautiful things about that, like we talk a lot in the tech world in particular, but there's a lot of talk in general about what's, how's your eq, your emotional intelligence? Your ability to have the right emotional response in a given context empathy plays a big role in that. And you have a stark division between office staff and painters, it quickly can become, us versus them. We're the ones who make
AJ Dressler:Yes.
Matt:We're the ones who do the work. And it can quickly turn into an us versus them kind of dichotomy.
AJ Dressler:Yep.
Matt:of the things that I think is utterly brilliant that you guys do at Chroma is you have all of your staff, regardless of position, pick up a brush and a roller multiple times a year
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:Relationships with the painters, they're also more incentivized to do it the right way instead of the easy way.
AJ Dressler:Absolutely. And I think too, like you said, it builds that comradery, builds that relationship. We have a guy right now who he's in the hospital. I had a problem with his kidneys and our sales team Lee and Emily both approached me separately last week saying, Hey, can we go visit? Can we go see him? Can we go be there for him? And so the three of us last week went and just sat in a hospital with this guy because we have worked alongside him and we know him and we love him and he's become part of our family. And I think, again, you don't see that often, but man, if that was something that was happening consistently in these trades, you'd have a workforce to be reckoned with for sure.
Matt:Why do you feel like most companies don't take that approach?
AJ Dressler:You have to actually be thinking about that consistently. You have to step outside of who you feel like you should be or want to be. Like, you've gotta lay it all down and go, Hey, I'm not above this. And I think, I do think, again, with the trades it's one of those things that people feel like is a quick, easy money maker. And what they've done is they started to exploit laborers and workers and never actually look at the human connection point of it. And so I think for the most part we're seeing some change in the industry, but a lot of guys will get into this out of desperation of, Hey, this seems like an easy win. Let me go do this. And they actually don't take the time to learn who they're actually dealing with. And I don't know if that's. I've been, and I don't, other industries across the board. I don't know if that's a normal thing or not, but I do think it's really difficult for for people to consciously think about everyone that's working with them. And I say with them on purpose, right? Once you start getting this whole, they work for me, that's the mindset that automatically puts you ahead of and above people. And you're not gonna get into that. What is your, what, how is your family? Who is your family? All of that. So the answer to that question is it's not easy to do.
Matt:Yeah.
AJ Dressler:once you start making that a thing, it become family. And this is, it's not a question if you're gonna go to the hospital. It's not a question if you're gonna go to the funeral. It's not a question. If you're gonna go to the wedding, the quinceanera, all those things, you just do that because you love them, right? And so building a relationship can be tough. It is tough, but it's worth it in the end.
Matt:And you knew that you were gonna build based on relationship at the founding of Chroma, correct?
AJ Dressler:That was one of the first conversations we had was what is this about? Is it about money or is it about relationships? And from day one, it was always about relationships. And so we have held to that and we will continue to hold to that until this company ceases to exist.
Matt:Yeah. What is recruitment like? I would imagine that the culture that you've developed, the employees that love your company, are probably far more eager to in an industry where most painters get used and abuse and taken advantage of. I would imagine that has a. positive impact on your capacity to recruit talent.
AJ Dressler:Absolutely. I think we said relationships, right? But how do you get people in the door? you pay above market value, right? If you want to be the best pay the best. And so from day one, we said, okay, we know that the average painter makes X amount of money. We're gonna be up here. And we've consistently done that to where people want to work with us. Our recruitment is now, we still have to go out and find people and all of that, but it's become easier and easier because you have your core people that want to bring their people into the fold as well, workers talk. They all talk. And the gossip around the watering hole is that Chroma treats their people well.
Matt:Yep.
AJ Dressler:And I think that's something that if you want to do recruiting and you want to be above on all of that and bring people in easy, you have to put your money where your mouth's at first, pay and treat well,
Matt:Now we're gonna get more into the organization that you guys have started in a little bit, but was that at the top of mind when you started the organization, or was that in response to the specific staff that you hired and where their passions lay?
AJ Dressler:No, that was always the first thing we thought about. That was top of mind. It worked well because the people that we brought on board were on the same mindset and same track, and wanted to be part of that. Honestly, what was cool is one of the guys we brought on board, at the time, outgrew us. He was doing really well and thought, Hey, can I go and do this myself? And we helped build his company and it's an awesome company working out there right now. And so again, it's that whole idea of living with open hands. These people aren't, we don't own them. But what we want is we wanna see the betterment of them. And so if that's something that is, Hey, we're gonna help set your company up, we're gonna help you get the leads you need, we're gonna help do your estimates. That's what we did.
Matt:That's So on the path toward million, what was the. First hurdle that you came to. You start grow getting
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:employees.
AJ Dressler:I would say probably that second year was the toughest the first year. You're going through it. You're in this honeymoon phase of we got this, let's go take on the world. We're gonna be multi-billionaires by the time, June hits, and then you just get repeatedly kicked in the teeth, right? It just is. And we grew, we started as a residential based company. And so we really focused on residential leads, getting in the right networking groups for all of that. And it worked. And that first year we were feeling pretty good. Second year came around and I would say it was a good year. We've consistently grown year after year, but it got a little more complicated, right? You start running around all of town to make sure your jobs are working and you're selling and all of that, and it almost kills you.'cause there's not enough time in a day to get what you need to get done. And then you have to realize the market, right? So in residential you've got these times like right after tax seasons coming up, right? People wanna spend money. You have right before holidays where people want their places to look good and all of that. And you don't, when you first start out, you don't think anything about this. You think about, I've gotta paint because I don't know, I would like to eat this week. And you don't think about that year one, year two happens and you're wondering what is going on? Because year two happens right after Christmas going into New Year's. No one wants to spend, then they spend everything they needed on toys and whatever else they had to buy. And you start going, did I make the right choice? What does that look like? And then you get out of it and you keep going. But I would say, yeah, year two was a tough one. Year seven was also the people listening be like why are you doing this? This is crazy. Year seven was one of those do I want to continue doing this for the rest of my life? And then we get into year eight where the answer is absolutely yes. This is worth it.
Matt:So how many years in did you cross the million dollar revenue threshold.
AJ Dressler:Oh, I think the year five. That was a good five.
Matt:was it still just residential or you brought commercial in at that point?
AJ Dressler:We started trying our hands at commercial at around that point. And that was a disaster. We felt like we had mastered residential and we're feeling really good about ourselves and said, let's get in that commercial realm. We got this is easy. And boy, that almost sunk us for sure.
Matt:how
AJ Dressler:it's great. Commercial's a whole different beast and animal. I think that a lot of times what you don't realize is they have their own payment terms. They pay when they want to pay. And if you're not careful, you're spending a lot of money Commercial likes to spend at the end of the year. So we thought, this is awesome. Our residential slows down at the end of the year, commercial picks up. what we didn't realize is that commercial also doesn't pay until they feel like it. so we hit these milestones, we went through all this stuff, it was perfect. And then it came time to pay and no one paid. So month one goes by that stinks, but we're okay. And then month two goes and we're starting to get a little nervous. Now we're getting into December and
Matt:People want
AJ Dressler:and we still don't have money.
Matt:and put food on the
AJ Dressler:I remember distinctly, I had taken December to spend time with family. I was feeling really good about where we were at in the business and all of that. And so we'll just take the month of December off kind of deal. And I remember, man, it was probably the week before Christmas just talking to Claire and going, Hey. What do we have in our bank account because I've gotta pay guys and we haven't gotten paid yet. I remember calling like these commercial guys and almost begging them like, please just please gimme a little bit of money. I just need a little to get us through. We didn't get anything, I think until February. We started the project in October. And it was one of those moments that we had to sit back and go, okay, we need to be a little smarter about this and we need to make sure we have reserves and we need to make sure we have the right lines of credit out. I think that was the other thing I would say is I grew up thinking credit's bad, but it's also a need and a must for some of these projects. And so making sure you have the right things in place was huge moving forward.
Matt:Yeah, that's one of the big differences between residential and commercial is you don't need lifts typically to do a residential home, or at least not as large of lifts as you do for example, apartment buildings.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:So what was it like navigating that season? Did that lead you to be
AJ Dressler:Oh, absolutely. Go ahead.
Matt:No, you go Utah.
AJ Dressler:Sorry, you just cut out for half a second. Utah. I was young and dumb and said yes to everything that came our way. I thought if we're gonna get the commercial, we have to say yes. We have to be the lowest we have to just make it work. And so we did a project, we did this urban air I don't know what you call it, bounce house, family fun, park, whatever here in Raleigh. It was a cool story, long story short, but their painters just didn't show up. And so we got a call. The blue said, can you be here tomorrow? I was in that mindset of let's say yes and go from there. Said Yes, we did it. Project went well. They said, do you travel? And we hadn't at that point. And I said, sure, yeah, of course we travel. And they said, how far? I said where do you want us to go? And they said, Utah. And I said, that's easy. they were building the first Raisin Canes chicken places out in Utah and they said, we'd love you to come do that out in Provo, in Salt Lake City. And so I went and I hired a crew down there. So went through that whole process of finding the right people that fit our culture, fit all of that. We hired a crew there. And I flew back and forth way too many times thinking that this was gonna be fine, this is gonna be fine. And it just, yeah, it was a tough, we got it done and we got paid and it went. But again, what it did is it distracted me from being here. I almost said stateside. See, that's how bad I am at directions. I thought it was a different country. But it definitely took so much time and effort away from our business and our backyard here, that again, we weren't getting jobs over here. I was focused on these raising canes across the country where, again, just to get, there was a day of travel and then you'd go, you'd spend a day on site, come back, you'd be exhausted.
Matt:So was that before or after the million dollar mark that you took that on, and did that lead you to question whether you should do commercial or just whether you should travel?
AJ Dressler:I think that was right before the million dollar mark that, no, it definitely, it made me question really all my life choices at that point, I was like, why did I not get into counseling? What am I doing with my life? I said year five was a tough one. Okay, good. But it showed us how commercial worked. And it showed us that, listen, if you can get the right numbers and the right people, you can throw travel in. It just, you have to be smart about it. And I think when we started this, I talked about we take from here to Florida, like the Eastern seaboards where we go. We have great relationships built across there where we have people in different states that we know. And Florida's a really good, spot for us. So you have to be smart, project in Utah at this moment, I don't think is the wisest thing to distract from what's happening here in our immediate network.
Matt:Yeah, so it's interesting you have multiple times commented that particularly with the commercial work, you started out by undercharging. And what I've come to realize is it seems like most service businesses either have prices that drive toward deficiency, so a little bit lower than we probably should charge, which then means lower quality labor, lower quality culture, lower quality, outcomes at lower quality paints, lower quality, et cetera. Or you have prices that drive toward excellence. I'm curious how you made that pivot, because a lot of the reviews I've read about Roma is amount of, they're remarkably timely in their showing up, their attention to detail. They're completely meticulous about everything. If you were to charge, basement prices, that wouldn't be a feasible option. At what point did you start transitioning your price from undercharging to charging based on the quality that you wanted to provide?
AJ Dressler:Yeah, no, that's a great question. I would say there is a cost of entry, if that makes sense. So if you really are wanting to get involved in the commercial realm, you have to understand that margins aren't always gonna be like they are in residential. However, if you can deal with that cost of entering the first job, it's what we do. Again, it's relationship building, right? Want to build this relationship. We see that your values are the same as ours. You're growing, we're growing. How do we work together and how do we show you what we can do? And so a lot of times, our sales team will do a quick Hey. Put us on a small job. What's the number need to be at? Watch how we work, and then watch the value that we do add. Now it doesn't always work out, right? Maybe it does some of those little test jobs that you can realize that, hey, this is the wrong fit and that's fine. We can walk away and they can walk away and be fine. we started by going after everything saying, we need to get in the commercial. And then you realize if we keep doing this, we are not gonna be able to make it. Because just because we won this job at this dollar amount does not mean that our guys dollars go lower. They stay the same. And that's good. We want our guys to make sure they're happy while they're working and make sure that they are motivated, but we also have to make something off of it. And so we went back to the drawing board of what is this actually about? And so we had built this company based off our relationships within our own team, right? At this point, we said why are we not doing this Outside of that, why are we not looking for our vendors and our GCs and our clients to be on the same wavelength and page like we should be doing that as well. And so we had to take a step back and say, okay, these guys that we've been working with, these commercial partnerships, they're unfortunately just not worth their time. Not in a bad way, but they're not creating the value that we need. We don't align on a lot of things. So let's stop now before we get too far on this road and let's find the right fit. We've been known to fly out, to just meet people, just to make sure that we're the right fit. And again, it all goes back to that initial. Core principle of relationships, that's what matters. And it has to start there.
Matt:Yeah. That's a big part of what I think most miss about, the essence of strategy. If you understand, you know who you are, then strategy is just figuring out how to get there. And you starting your business based on we are a relationship business means you're going to design all the components of your business around how to drive relationships, in other words, and starting with your employees.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:a point where you realized, hey. Right now we're spread too thin financially. Yeah, we're getting, high ticket jobs, but the profitability's not there to be able to pay our employees as much as we would like or to provide them, the office space or the benefits at the end of the year. We want to be able to send our employees bonuses and send them to Disneyland, for example, as
AJ Dressler:Yeah,
Matt:And so
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:orchestrated the entirety of the business around your goal of helping improve the lives of your people. That was a strategic decision that has downflow consequences and a required component of that is, yes, you might charge, one or 2% more than another painter will, but you're absolutely going to make it worth the while of both the customer as well as the employee.
AJ Dressler:Absolutely. And I think that's when you can create a value add of, hey, we're dealing with a client where it's the same situation where she had these painters that she had used on these commercial projects for forever. The problem is they were less expensive. However, she was having to be on site and deal with them, and any problem had to go from that pain to her, to someone like just the command chain there was crazy. And so we came in with, no, we're gonna be more expensive. The first job. You're not gonna make as much money. However, we should be able to get you 10 x jobs because of. The level of no headache that you're gonna face. And so it is, it's that value add that you can create there. I think that was the same kind of concept too, that as we build our company going, Hey, our margins may be not gonna be as high, but we're gonna have way more opportunity for margin and for dollars because we're gonna have way more jobs. Because we have the best of the best.
Matt:and you're gonna get the best talent because you treat them so remarkably well.
AJ Dressler:Correct, correct.
Matt:all of the up and downs, challenges, stresses, strains, growing pains within Chroma, Did you have mentors? Did you have coaches? Did you have people who were helping you chart the course? Or was it largely going based on instinct and accepting the consequences of your actions?
AJ Dressler:Yeah, it's probably the latter for a lot of this was again, we talked about this, I don't do inaction kind of thing. So there was a lot of times where we just made decisions and moved. And I can't say all those worked out well. There was, I told you about the commercial stuff. A lot of trial and error. And I would say this though, along the way, realizing that in the trades you're not competing against each other. So yes, there were other companies that, I would give a call to and say, Hey, I'm struggling with this other paint companies really. Right? Which is weird. You'd think that you shouldn't be talking about where your struggles are or anything like that, but finding friends in the industry was huge. And going, Hey, how do I think through this? How do I go about this? What's that look like? And relying on others. As we grew. Now, I think I started by not doing that, which is why I think we came into some of these weird situations with a commercial and stuff like that. But as I aged, I think I grew maybe a little wiser maybe. And just realizing that, hey, I don't have all the answers and I need to find someone that does. And so I would say finding other painters or yeah, other painting companies and asking them what's going on. I would also say finding the right partners, right? So the two guys I have that own this company with me are just a vat of knowledge and are wise. And so we can check each other and say, Hey, here's what I'm thinking. Is this right? How do you think about this? How do we go about it? And so it's surrounding yourself with people that are gonna keep you accountable and push you in that same way, and have the same mentality and goals.
Matt:I love that. It sounds like as it pertains to connecting with those in the industry, you shifted from what's oftentimes referred to as a scarcity mindset. There's a limited amount of leads we need to compete with these other painters to more of a growth mentality. More of a, no, there's plenty for all of us. Let's work together. And I'm curious, shifting toward you talking about partners, like at what point did you know it was the right time to bring on partners and what did you look for in partners?
AJ Dressler:Yeah, when I started this, I had a business partner and we worked together up until about a year or two ago, It was one of those moments that, his focus was elsewhere and mine was going a different direction. And so we went our separate ways in a good way. Nothing bad or anything like that. But at that time two of the guys from the tech industry that job I worked kinda just resurfaced. I don't know how they did this or if they thought through this or whatever, but tricky guys for sure. But we just started talking about what are our goals? What are we looking to do? At the time it was, again, it was just really at that moment I was in this position where I felt like, Hey I might be done with this. I'm tired. We've worked really hard, we've built something really cool, but I just, I don't know if I want to keep doing this year after year. And it was a breath of fresh air in the company of these guys going in and saying hold up Blake. How big do you wanna take this? How do we make it bigger? What do we do? How can we help? And that partnership conversation really wasn't even a conversation to start with. It was just, Hey, the three of us friends talk to me about what's going on in life and how is that working for you? Have you thought about this X, Y, and Z? We had also started these talks about what's next in light of Chroma, right? And we have a foundation called the Alpha Foundation. And that was a brainchild out of these conversations of what's important to you? And we went back to relationships. And long story short, we had one of our guys supporting his family out in Honduras, and I just asked these two guys if they wanted to go to Honduras with me. I didn't think they'd say yes. And we did somehow. And it was a grueling experience, an eye-opening experience, but it was an experience where the three of us lived just in some of the worst conditions together for a week. And came out of that with a passion for people, with a passion to do things the right way. I need people that can help steer this ship. And yeah, we started that business partnership from there.
Matt:That's incredible. So at this point you have a number of your staff members are from Central America, Honduras in particular,
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:walk me through the process of realizing. We need to start a foundation.
AJ Dressler:Yeah, that was, again, it was just these conversations of what's important. What do you want, like what do you wanna be known for at the end of your days? I don't really care to be known that I have a really great painting company. That doesn't even sound that cool, quite frankly. I don't even think my kids would be even proud of that. It's paint. What I want my kids to know and see is that their dad loves people and he loves the people that work with him And in our little family, most of those people are from Central America Latino and Hispanic. And I absolutely adore those people. And when we got the call from our guy who he's worked with us for years. He just said, Hey, I'm supporting. People in my village had a really good year last year. Would you want to help support any of this? And I just said why don't we go look at it? take me there. And I didn't expect them to say, oh yeah, let's do that. They never, no one ever does that, but he said, sure, let's go.
Matt:No
AJ Dressler:we got that trip together,
Matt:ever offers either.
AJ Dressler:So that was on me. But we got on a plane and we went out there and I think you realize that what you're paying people for is not just a job, right? It's not just work to do. You're paying so they can support families so they can give food to these kids that don't have food so they can help this lady who can't walk, have medical care so they can help put a roof over the heads of this family who had to run because of the cartel. There's all these things that you realize this isn't just about paint, it's about the people. And it just goes right back into this relationship deal. It was one of those, Hey, we say this in our offices, this idea, let's do this together. And we were really excited about that part of it, of we can really help over here. But we also wanted to expand that and say if we are excited about this, I'm sure other people would be as well. And so we set up the Alpha Foundation and that's been going on for, I think it started this year. And it's been awesome. We just got back from Mexico. Last week, two weeks ago, something like that. And we were able to do some work in an orphanage there and be able to take that same mission minded hey, we're here to help Elevate and bring these families into light over in Honduras we can do that here in this orphanage here in Mexico as well. And it's a really cool opportunity. Something that it is our why, it's why we do things. It was cool for our sales team to be part of the orphanage opportunity and then go back and say, this makes sense. Like I'm not selling just to line my pockets. It's nice to make money. Let's be honest here, right? It's nice to have income, but there's so much more. It's supporting families.
Matt:And it sounds like you took the personal mission of one or some of your employees turn that into an organizational mission, and then you bring your employees down there so that they can witness for themselves that, like you said, this is more than just about paint. This is about life transformation.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:the transformation that Alpha Foundation is serving.
AJ Dressler:Yeah. So what we realized when we were there in Honduras and even in Mexico, is that one, there's just a lack of nutrition for children. Whether that's clean water or food. I can't remember the exact numbers. It was something like, in this orphanage there's 40 something people in this orphanage, and they had, six kilograms of, protein to survive on a day. And then the rest is like rice and beans and stuff like that, right? In Honduras. The water is horrendous. They have it in these wells and it sits there and gets stagnant. There was a lady there who, thought she had stomach cancer. We were able to partner with Sawyer Foundation, who does water filtration systems and give them clean water, and that cured her stomach problems. And, so food, nutrition, clean water. There's also this idea of providing health services as possible, partnering with the right people. We're not doctors, so we're not going down and doing those. But providing the funds and the means to get people to have these, medical procedures. We helped a lady have an emergency hysterectomy, I think, in Honduras last year. And then the last piece is education. It's crazy because one thing we saw while we were there. Was this idea of, I live for today And I hope that tomorrow works out. And it is been, they've been like this for generations where I eat what I need to fill my belly today, if possible tomorrow I'm gonna figure that out. And we thought, Hey, you know what, like we've gotta provide a better outlook here.
Matt:Sure.
AJ Dressler:one thing we're working on and working towards is just having some educational components of this. So at the orphanage in Mexico, one thing we saw was there was an English teacher and then a teacher who also was dealing with like technology, software, all that stuff. And those kids, as they were learning, that had a far better opportunity outside of the orphanage once they got out of there to find work and to make a living. and again, it's changing that mindset of, I can do this, I can live for tomorrow. It's, we talk about if you were to give someone in Honduras, typically a chicken, they would kill it and eat it that day. What we want'em to do is say, Hey, this thing produces eggs. Let's keep this thing alive. Let's keep it around. Let's get eggs, let's get protein and, live for tomorrow. And so that's really our approach there that we're aiming for. And I think it starts with this younger generation and being able to provide an outlet and work in the future, whether that's through education or whether it's through keeping them alive through nutrition and water.
Matt:Yeah.
AJ Dressler:So that's what we're trying to do.
Matt:That's beautiful.
AJ Dressler:You.
Matt:circle everything up, it sounds like what you have done. In effect is you have tied your team's passions to the quality of their work, making them therefore passionate about your brand. Is simply a machine that therefore elevates their own mission.
AJ Dressler:Yeah.
Matt:things about how that works for your business is marketing is an extension of culture. You can't market yourself into growth if you have a terrible culture. And what you're currently experiencing is you have such phenomenal culture that regardless of what marketing you're doing, you're seeing growth because of just the employees who absolutely love you and therefore it's coming through in their work. And so your customers are You anyway. It's just such a beautiful, virtuous cycle.
AJ Dressler:Yeah, no, we're excited and we're truly blessed. Have that for sure.
Matt:yeah. What advice would you give to business owners who are starting out, who are maybe a little bit below the$1 million mark?
AJ Dressler:Yeah. I would say the first thing is figure out what your why is. Why are you doing this? Is it for money that's okay. That's great. Is it for something else? Why do you want to do this? Why are you pursuing this? And really find out what that is. I've seen a lot of people just jump into an industry because it seems like an easy, Hey, let me get in and get out, deal, but figure out why you want to do this. I would also say find that support system quickly. Find the people that are gonna come alongside you and encourage you. Find the people that you can ask the hard questions with, and they can walk through, Hey, this is what we did, or This is what I think. Be humble. You don't know it all. Just know that you don't know it all and you never will. And so I would say be ready to keep learning. And then the last thing I would just say, just keep pushing through. To get to that million is tough. It's hard. You gotta have a lot of hard conversations, hard choices. But after that, getting past that is a lot easier.
Matt:I love that my friends. If you want to know more about Chroma, their website is Chroma coatings.com, and if you want to learn more about Alpha Foundation, it is Alpha helps.org. They're doing wonderful work. Hope you guys will check them out.
AJ Dressler:And thank you.
Matt:so much for your time today. It was truly a pleasure getting the chance to connect with you and all the
AJ Dressler:Awesome man. Yeah, thank you man. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me on. This is awesome. I really appreciate it.
Matt:a pleasure my friend.