Thomas Schroeder: Bringing Birds Back to the Land

In this two-part series, Thomas Schroeder, Senior Partnerships Manager for Audubon Conservation Ranching, joins host Matt Maier to discuss how ranchers and conservationists are teaming up to restore grassland ecosystems and protect declining bird populations. From his background as a chef to his work in regenerative agriculture, Thomas highlights the deep connection between food, land, and community—and how stewardship can help both people and wildlife thrive.

Don’t miss Part 2, releasing November 10th!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome, Regenerative Renegades to our Regenerative Renegade podcast. We have a great guest with us today, Thomas Schrader from uh Audubon Conservation Ranching. Uh he is the senior partnerships manager. We'll get into talking about what that is. But uh Thomas and I work closely together on the conservation ranching uh certification, 4000 Hills. Uh great guy to work with, by the way. Oh, thank you. Really great. Couldn't find a more kind, hardworking guy. So thanks for coming in and you're in person. Yeah, at least we do virtually. Yep. I love it. Um little background, Thomas Schrader, Senior Partnerships Manager, Audubon Conservation Ranching, based in Abilene, Texas, a world away from Clearwater, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

A little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

He was just talking about how it's 100 degrees there, and he was glad to come north. Uh he began his Audubon tenure in 2018 as the Audubon Conservation Ranching Program Manager for Texas. As partnerships manager for Audubon Conservation Ranching, Thomas works with national and state staff, ranchers, market partners, and other agencies and organizations to implement a wide range of programs and practices across the entirety of the Audubon Conservation Ranching Program. We'll get into what all those words mean. Born and raised in Milwaukee. So you know you know the Northern Midwest.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I do indeed.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Um Thomas has worked. I did not know this. Thomas has worked as a head chef for Whole Foods Market and as a farm manager for Greengate Farms in Austin, Texas. Before working at Audubon, Thomas was a sustainable agriculture specialist at the National Center for Appropriate Technology in Central Texas. Well, we'll have to learn about another mouthful. Yeah, that really is true. Um and a little bit about uh Audubon Conservation Ranching. You've heard that a few times already. Well, Thousand Hills turns out, I guess, is the first national brand uh to achieve that certification. Um but that we're gonna shorten that to ACR, Audubon Conservation Ranching. There we go. ACR aims to stabilize declining grassland bird populations in partnership with farmers and ranchers. Using cattle, I just want everyone to know that. Thousand Hills independent ranches were rigorously audited by Audubon, ultimately meeting the requirements centering on habitat management, environmental sustainability, and animal welfare to earn the Audubon bird-friendly land certification. So, um just you know, that's near and dear to my heart, this changing the trajectory of grassland birds or pollinators or whatever is in peril due to our agricultural practices. Um it's it's something very near and dear to my heart. I want to say right off the top that my mother was a self-educated birder starting at the age of twelve or eleven, and she got her first packet of Audubon trading cards. Okay. And yet to this day, when you look in her backyard, you see all kinds of bird-friendly baths, cover trees, theaters, and uh and her her binoculars handy. So it runs deep that uh we care about them, but I think the reason why is that everyone kinda knows when you're around birds or when you're sensitive to seeing them or tracking them that they are kind of a early indicator.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yeah. So that and when you know that, it you just it it kind of feel you kind of feel like you have your finger on the pulse a little bit. So well, to get started, I'd like you to take us through your journey on how you ended up here today. Oh boy. And uh it's only an hour-long podcast, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

That's right. Okay, good, good. I'll go with the cliffs version. Um, so yeah, you know, it's uh it was an interesting path. I grew up just outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Um, had an uncle who owned a family bar and grill. And so I worked there starting at about 12 years old as a dishwasher and would work the Friday night fish fry every night, every Friday, and then Saturday morning come back and clean the bar. So that was my introduction to food service and kitchens and and those kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Because every bar and grill in Wisconsin has a Friday night fish five. Yep, yeah. And just for those that don't live in Wisconsin, it's it is a prerequisite.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

It is, it is. You have to, yeah, especially in, you know, around the Easter time, that's when it really ramps up every Friday night. Walleye perch, you name it. So uh yeah, so grew up doing that and then kind of worked my way around. Uh went to college, went to Marquette University in Milwaukee, uh, got an anthropology and philosophy degree uh from Marquette.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Deep thinker.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, yeah. Really, really enjoyed that there, but um, there was no philosophy factory in town anymore. So it wasn't anything that uh you could put could put to you know great use other than it was it was good for conversations and social hours at the bar and things like that. So stuck with the restaurant business. Um, and then a few years later decided that I needed an adventure and got in my truck and just started heading south. Had some friends in Indianapolis, had a friend in uh Knoxville, Tennessee, and then just kept driving and hit a bunch of cities and tried to figure out what I what I liked. And I rolled into Austin and I can remember pulling down Sixth Street in Austin and looking around and going, I I think this is cool. I think this is the place for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah. Wow. So I went back up to the uncle's bar and restaurant. Sure. What are all the positions that you held at that place?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Oh, I mean, so as the you know, I was the dishwasher, but then you're also the prep cook. Yeah. Uh you have to, you know, you stock the bar, so you're running up and down the stairs, you're cleaning everything, the whole, the whole building top to bottom. Uh, my aunt, his wife, we would come in on Saturday mornings. So I would work the Friday night shift and then back on Saturday morning to clean the whole place and get it ready to open.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And that's where you learned your work ethic.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I never got I never I didn't stick around long enough to be a bartender. Never got to that side of things. And I would help out cooking occasionally here and there, but probably.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I bartended, I was a line cook. I did all that. I I love it just bringing back memories and the hustle and bustle and you've worked in it. You don't really understand.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Exactly. Yeah. No, I loved kitchens. When I was after I graduated from Marquette, I worked at a couple other restaurants in Milwaukee. It was the front of the house manager or the back of the house. I would love to run an expo and the camaraderie of the team and like that rush of the full house, and you got to get things going and the tickets are pouring in.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

You have to be an adrenaline junkie to survive.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, that was that was, you know, my whole life up until then. And then moved to Austin.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

What age were you at this time when you moved up?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

This was about 20, I was about 24, I think. Yeah. Right around there. Um, and then just, you know, tried to find something to do. And I had left when I left Milwaukee, it was kind of a high pressure restaurant, and it was 80 hours, 60 hours a week, and you know, really intense. So when I got to Austin, I was like, well, I don't could do that again, or I could find something that's a little bit, you know, slower pace, let me enjoy the city, you know, and take advantage of everything Austin has to offer. And so that's how I found Whole Foods and started working just as a regular cook in the kitchen in their prepared foods department. And so it was great. Met my soon-to-be wife about two weeks after. Uh so this was Whole Foods. Whole Foods in Austin. So a store or yeah, yeah. The actual store. Aren't they headquartered on the right, right? So this opened up downtown Austin. We were, I was in the North Austin store. So one of one of the you know, fourth or fifth stores, I think, somewhere in there. Don't quote me on that, but second one in Austin for sure. So it was great. It was, you know, you ran back then you could in Whole Foods, you could run your department like your own business. So as long as you made labor and you made food costs, you kind of were given a lot of liberties to be creative and try different things, and had a really great head chef who later became the associate team leader. And then the team leader really enabled us and empowered us to be creative and work together and like explore food. And like that's where I fell in love with food was cooking there and learning about the ingredients. And you know, it's such a diverse kitchen. You're cooking everything from you know, fried chicken to these, you know, elaborate tofu and vegan dishes and other things. And so it was you got to learn everything, you know, you got to see how to how to do everything from scratch.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

So you got your culinary degree and your business degree there.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, really, really, you know, yeah, without without you know, formal formally calling it that. So yeah. So that was that was just a lot of fun. And that's actually, you know, further on down the road, that was my spark for going from cooking food to going to growing food. And so that's how I got hooked on farming and organic farming. And we got to meet some of the local vendors that were around. There was a great couple of uh certified organic vegetable farms that would let you come out and you know, they were happy to have you come out for half a day and you know, pull weeds or do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

And so you did have that connection farm to table, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

So we started to build on that, and then uh I moved to North Carolina for a so that was another great part of Whole Foods is if you you know found another store that had an opening, you could just transfer over. You could move to what you could move to a new city with with a job and with benefits and those kind of things. So my soon-to-be wife at that time, we moved to North Carolina and she was in the floral side of things, and I was on the the kitchen side of things. And so we did that for a year.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

And so you met at Whole Foods. I mean, interrupted you before you met at Whole Foods. Met at Whole Foods. Right away.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Right away, two weeks. Two weeks after after I started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So that pull when you got in the pickup truck and started driving was to find it. Something that's right.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

That's right. Yeah, yeah, indeed. So that was, yeah, we you know Whole Foods definitely opened up a lot of doors for me and kind of helped me see what was out there besides the kitchen and beyond and how things got to the, you know, to the kitchen. And then then at the same time, as I was meeting her, her father lived in Abilene. He had a ranch that he was running there. And so I started to come out and help him. Or I mean, for the first 10 years, I was just standing and trying to stay out of the way and learn as much as I could and not help or anything, but uh started to get more exposed to the livestock production side of things. And so uh right after we got married, we had a house and we had our first child, and I decided what everybody does after they have their first kid was I was gonna quit my job and go back to school. So uh I have when he was about six months old, I did that. I uh I left Whole Foods and I went to Texas State University and uh went for an agriculture degree. Did you really? Yeah. Wow. So what what how old were you at this time now? I was just about 30. Right around. Right around there. Yeah, right in there. Um, you know, and I because I already had the the prerequisites for my first undergrad degree. I didn't have to take any of the, you know, the classes in across the campus. I could just I took every agriculture class they offered from you know, from livestock production to feeds and feeding to welding to carpentry, like all of you know, everything that they offered through the ag department.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

And um so they have a degree where they actually teach welding and yeah, welding was a part welding was a part of the curriculum.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

There was structures, so we built, you know, it was a project where you designed and built something, and and it happened to be that the uh instructors, I think it was our secondary instructor or something like that, needed a new deer blind. So we ended up building him his deer blind, but we had to follow all the the specs and all the rules. We did we had a mechanics class, so we took apart a you know what a Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine and pulled out all the parts and then had to put it all back together. And if it didn't start, you didn't pass.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

So once you So how did that feel? You were 30, and I would imagine there's a bunch of 18-year-olds. Absolutely, right? Yeah. So were were you kind of like uncle, big uncle, or did you?

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah, that with you know, after once you it was a small enough department that you had the same classes with the same kids over and over again. So I think there was some of that, you know, like I had that perspective of you know coming back as a guet and uh my second time going to college, and it was a little more, a little less nightlife and a little more focused on the education side of things. So uh definitely was kind of that that's so cool. Older older person than the other.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

I didn't even know something like that existed.

unknown 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

In a university that they would teach all those things.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Still there today.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, yeah. The the soils class. Um Wow. Yeah. And this is Texas. This is Texas State University in San Marcos.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

So yeah, and they're still going, it's one of the largest growing egg egg programs that's going on in the in Texas right now. They're actually the kind of one of their lead professors who's become one of my my dear friends, Dr. Ken Mix, is he's focused on the regenerative side of things. So he tees he teaches soil health and he teaches all of the you know the principles of soil health and all the things that come with it. And I remember my soils class, you know, no detriment to him when I took it, but we learned that you know, soil's there to hold plants in in place and it's there as a medium, and it's sand, silt, and clay. And these are the, you know, these are the macronutrients and these are the micronutrients, and that's what soil is. There was no talk of soil health or soil life for that money. It's so recent. And it was talking about, you know, only 15 years ago or so. Wow. So since then, now that's you know, those are some of the principles they're teaching. And he he actually bought a farm not too long ago, and so he's out rotating his cows and they've got their chickens, and they're trying to, you know, show these practices on on the on the land and everything like that. So yeah, it was a it was a really great learning experience. But yeah, we had our second son when I was while I was there. So I'm you know, going to the greenhouse with with Jack on the on the baby bjorn and checking on my tomato plants, and I helped them start the student garden and you know, did all that kind of stuff. And so, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

So, how did you uh this this may be too personal, but how did you make it financially work to be able to stop and go do that after my my wife is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Okay. All right, she carried the load uh definitely for a while there. And we had some help from family, yeah, um, kind of you know, traded off, you know, summers come about. Yeah financially, yeah, you know, no, absolutely. We were we were in a pretty fortunate spot to be able to balance that out. She was by the time when she started at Whole Foods, she was the floral, she was in the floral department. And by that time that I went back to school, she was the floral buyer for the Southwest region. So she was at the corporate office, yeah, buying flowers for all the stores in Texas and Oklahoma and Louisiana. Yeah. So she she was pretty amazing and kept us, kept us going through that. And then even after, you know, you walk out with an ag degree, and my first job, you know, you mentioned Greengate Farms. I worked for another farmer. Uh uh, his name is Pedro Chambone, and his farm is called My Father's Farm. Okay. But, you know, just you're working for minimum wage at a at a certified organic vegetable farm, you know. But yeah, the things that I learned, and you know, I got to drive the delivery truck for Pedro, and he was selling his vegetables to HEB, which is the big, yep, big grocery store chain in Texas. And so I would once a week, I would drive the delivery truck and park with all of the giant semi-trucks and unload our vegetables and got to figure out that whole process and see the warehouse side of things.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

And so here comes your supply chain degree. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Learn about all of that, you know, from soup to nuts and see how that goes. And um, yeah, and then was fortunate enough to go and start working for NCAT. So that's that National Center for Appropriate Technology. Okay. Yeah, no, that what is that?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

So that's a program that's their appropriate technology.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

It's a basic it's an extension service for certified organ, or not even certified, but an extension service for sustainable and organic producers.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So they kind of, you know, they saw the void of, you know, if I'm if I live in a place and I want to grow organically and I go to my county extension office and they don't have anybody that's trained in those practices, they're gonna point you towards a jug or some kind of a side to take care of your problem.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

I also didn't know that that existed.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah. So they and a lot of it is, you know, it started off, it was kind of the transition when I got there, but the everything was on paper. He would write, you know, different documents about tomato production or goat sheep and goat production, small ruminants, you know, how to get to a market, how to market everything for small producers, and they were all paper copies. And people used to go on and and you know, order them and they would mail you the paper copies in the mail. And so by the time I was there, everything was was digital, but we did a help desk, you know, like you people could call in and just ask you questions, or you know, you would go out and visit farms or work with different programs.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Well, it says they're national. So does that mean they're represented in every state? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

So there's different regions, different regional offices. And so we had folks in the northeast. California has a really great program, does a lot of great things with the Latino farmers community there. They have conference every year that they do in Texas. We had a really great team. We had we had a poultry specialist and we had an agronomist, soil health specialist, and we had a retired uh he used to work for TDA, uh, Texas Department of Agriculture. And so he retired from that and came to work for us. So he knew everybody in the state associated with agriculture and how to grease the wheels and understand supply chains and different pieces and different moving parts. And we did a lot of work with like local food movements and trying to connect small producers and aggregate small producers together. And how can we, you know, if I got 10 vegetable farmers, how can I get you guys to all work together to sell into the local school district or all the challenges like that?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

You know, I mean, there's so many challenges when you're unconventional. Right. You know, like it's simple support on how to control this pest or how to manage a goat. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Like you said, aggregating simple, you know, the eye test for sheep and goats, you know, that helps that for health and those kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

So I didn't know that kind of support was there.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It's still still there today. There's still lots of folks that are that are doing great work through NCAT. Um their main office is in Butte, Montana. So that got to be my first trip to Montana was to go to the home office, okay, get trained up there and do that for a while.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

So what kind of regions do they have? How do they break the country up?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

They do the no so the kind of the the upper Great Plains is where that the Montana office services, and then Texas has a pretty good presence. They've got folks in Arkansas has a really great team in Mississippi, um, and then the California team, and I think there's still some folks over in the north, the northeast.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Okay. So not a lot. Not a lot. No, spread out. Not in the upper Midwest.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

No, no, that that's a good point. Yeah, not too many in the upper Midwest. But the the information that they share is pretty ubiquitous in terms of in terms of how you can manage for for pests and those kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

So that is great. New resource for all you small or special producers.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

It's a great place for they share a lot of information about events.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

NCAT.org. So it's NC as in cow. A for appropriate T for technology.org. NCAT. Okay. For all you producers out there that need some support beyond the conventional.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

The food handling rules that are in place, right? Like they get really confusing really quick. And what's my scale and how do I fit into this? What do I have to do? Yep. They're really great at at helping to explain that or connecting folks to resources that can do that. It's always all right. So you were there. So I was there, and then the Audubon opportunity uh came available about, I guess that would be about six years ago or so, to to be the program manager for Texas and Oklahoma. Um, and so started working right right then and there, just got got off the the the press and started running. And uh we first certified our first ranch in Texas about six months after I started. So that's uh burgundy beef. And geez, he's uh his ranch is southwest of of Dallas Fort Worth area, but they have two brick and mortar locations, one in Fort Worth and one in Dallas, and they delivered, they do direct shipping. Um, but that was the that was the start of my, which I was one of my favorite parts. And there's a big part of me wishes I could still do this, but for about four years, all I did was drive around Texas and meet some of the best regenerative ranchers in the state, guys that didn't, you know, they've been doing it for 20 years and didn't call it regenerative and just didn't look at it that way, but just like had that value and had that idea of, you know, the moving of animals and the long periods of rest and recovery and working with nature. You know, a lot of those concepts were just starting to become like more talked about and more vocalized. But, you know, these guys were just doing it because it was profitable, it was the right for thing for them to do, they saw the market that was available for it and were just doing some amazing things.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Well, and that's that's consistent with what I've seen. These early adopters that were in the regenerative space that I've met and talked to, and clearly you've met and talked to more of them than I have. But what I what I find fascinating is that yeah, they have they they have the values of a steward, they want to take care of their land, but it just made sense to them because it it there was a return for the effort. They did see the imp the improvement when in however they wanted to measure it in financial terms, but then they also the I think the I think in a lot of cases the the fringe benefit or the even unintended consequence was that, oh my gosh, I I'm also improving the soil, I'm improving the water cycle, I'm improving the habitat, wildlife habitat, and birds and pollinator. You know, so it's like that's what's so beautiful about this, because so many times when you talk about let's just call it green initiatives, they don't really make sense. They don't make financial sense some time. Sure. Like like I would say one that comes to mind is burning corn in our automobiles. You know, we're depleting soil, there's a lot of processing that has to happen to that corn to turn it into ethanol, and then we gotta put it, you know, we put it in our gas tank, and it's just kind of a spiraling down approach. It might be a band-aid right now, but long term it may not work. And so it's and I just find that with a lot of green approaches, it's like there isn't this long-term perpetual th um improvement that's happening as a result of it. It that there's all these things that we shouldn't talk about. We shouldn't bring up this non-green component of whatever it is. Yeah. Solar or ethanol or whatever. Let's not talk about that. Let's just talk about how it's a solution. Yeah, yeah. We say it's a solution. And in regenerative agriculture, I'm I'm I'm skeptical of anything that says that it's going to be green or sustainable or whatever. But I know I've been able to witness with my own eyes that it actually can help that farmer survive and it can help our food system, and there's a lot of other help. So is it to me it's so rewarding to talk to people like you mentioned like that. Yeah. Where they've been at it for a while, toiling away, no one's paying any attention, they're just doing it on their land, they're not doing it for recognition, they're not doing it for any other reason than I'm trying to figure out the best model for my land and for the future. Yeah. Both right now I need to survive, but I also want to be, I want everything to be better in the future, too. And that had to be some fascinating stories and characters that do.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, we worked some some great folks. You know, there's a uh a rancher who works for the Dixon Water Foundation. And so they're a a foundation that their their goal is to improve watersheds and water health. And so they have a ranch that part of it is conventional, set stock, and part of it and the large part of it is rotationally grazed, with just the idea to like, let's show that these practices work. Let's show that grazing alone can improve, you know, biodiversity and bird habitat and soil carbon and water retention and water quality and those things. And so Casey Wade, who's now the executive director, he was the ranch manager when I started, um, taught me a lot about how they were grazing their animals and how he just, you know, the reading of the land and watching and knowing when to move animals, because that was always one of my, you know, like put my big questions was, you know, like I would show up at these ranches and part of the Audubon certification is we have a habitat management plan. And I felt like I was like, you tell me what to put in this in your habitat management plan, you're doing so amazing. And so I just got to, you know, how do you move the animals? How are you reading the landscape? How do you know? You know, it used to drive me crazy that I'm sure you've gotten the question, like, how do you know when to move? Well, it depends. It totally used to drive me, it depends, used to drive me crazy, but it makes sense. It does. And you know, like, and it's a it there's a lot more behind that answer of it depends. But it's, you know, how did these guys get to that point? And what are they looking for in terms of animal health? And yeah, you know, KC could see, you know, like, oh, you know, reading a lot of, you know, you read the poop, you read the animal function and you read how they interact with you, and you know instinctively, okay, it's time to move, like we're ready for ready to keep moving and you know, and do those things. So yeah, and it got to see that in in Texas is so diverse in terms of climates, right? So I was out in far west Texas where they measure rainfall in hours per year. How much, how many hours did it rain last year? And what's a typical number? Eight, yeah, 12. Wow. Like, so you know, they're not measuring in inches last week. Yeah, they're not measuring in inches or you know, acre feet or something like that. It's out, you know, just hours of rain per year. So you got that environment, and then I work with some really great folks over on the Gulf Coast where they're getting 70 to 80 inches of rain per year, dealing with a whole bunch of different causes and results because of that rain, right? And all the different things you have to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

So just learning and seeing how these practices can be applied anywhere. And you can do it on, you know, these different types of environments and you know, the old like, well, you can you can move your cattle like that because you get all the rain, or you can move your cattle like that because you don't get enough rain. Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

It's just like well, that works for you, but it'll never work for me. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

You know, and then so and that's one of those things. Some of that's true.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

It is. Sometimes it's yeah, you're right. That probably won't work for you. Right. But if if but if you're my neighbor right here, it it might work for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

You know, because it works for me. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that so that's one thing that I learned too is I've been with Audubon and I've, you know, and and my role as the partnerships manager, I've gotten to kind of expand that. And I've written habitat management plans for producers in Oklahoma and Kansas and Arkansas. We wrote one for a producer in Virginia who was originally a part of a supply chain that we were trying to connect the dots for. And so to be able to go to those places and just kind of come with that base of like, okay, I understand the rest and recovery and rotation, and how does it fit in this setting and how can you change it and do it differently? And I've helped with management plans in Wisconsin and Minnesota. So it's, you know, those the principles can be applied anywhere. It's it's the last one I I always thought it was great, you know, when when Gay Brown and the ideas of soil of the five principles of soil health were coming out, and they added the last one, which was know your context. And I was like, that that would was like a light went off for me when they did that. It was like, that's it. You have to be able to have that local or you know, regional expertise and uh adaptability and what are you trying to accomplish?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Right. You know, right.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

And that was always my my when I would sit down with anyone, it was what are your goals? Let's start. You know, I'm coming to you to work on your habitat management plan, but we're gonna start with the goals of your operation in terms of your what do you want your daily, weekly, monthly life to look like? What do you want, you know, your profitability to look like? What do you want your, you know, the longevity of the property to look like? Right. So that those are all the things that we start with habitat management plans, the goals of the ranch are and they're not always the same.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

No, because sometimes you know, from way back on thinking about that, you'd be like, well, they're all gonna answer that about the same.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Not really. No, not really. No, yeah. You got I want my, you know, do you want your family to be involved? Right. Do you not want your family to be involved?

SPEAKER_01 29:17

You know, there's what kind of family feud do you have?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah. How many kids are we trying to designate different parts of the ranch for or do things like that? So yeah, it it all, you know, it's it's just that that know you knowing your context and kind of applying these practices uh can be done anywhere and it you can make a difference and you can make progress and and make change.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

So I'm gonna ask you a philosophical question since you have a philosophical education. Okay. So the common thread that I'm hearing from you is this openness to learn things, openness to try things. I mean, you've you've you exposed yourself to a wide variety. Oh, you know, they kind of all fall under food and egg. Some loose way. But still you you you you learned these different trades, and you it sounds, if I'm to listen to you, that you pretty enthusiastically learned. You learned on the ranch, you learned from these farmers, you learned in the restaurant, you learned as a chef, you learned supply chain, you drove a truck. Where did that come from? Like where did that mindset come from where that where you were curious enough and adventurous enough and courageous enough to go try these things? Yeah. Because most people, most, you know, they're not gonna go get in their truck and drive. So I just wanna I wanna I want to see where that came from.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Yeah, I don't know. That's a really good question. I I've kind of always had that, you know, that adventurism spirit and that idea of, you know, just being able to, you know, like let's let's experience that and let's try that. You know, uh growing up, my mom exposed me to a lot of things. We were members of the different fine arts series in in town. And so I remember going to some amazing jazz concerts when I was 10 and 12, 13 years old and watching the legends play when they would come through Milwaukee or, you know, go to the state fair and see the country artists when they came to town and like just that, you know, like that exposure to a whole bunch of different things when you're young and you know, don't say no to anything as as much as you can and try to see that as kings. And then when I got older, it was just like, well, that's that's what I'm gonna do. I mean, I graduated when I graduated from Marquette, I had a professor that was a big traveler, and he was he was one of those anthropologists that would go and live in New Guinea and the part of the map that doesn't show up on the map. And he would, you know, he had that and he kind of lit that fire in me.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

So it's possible. Yeah. So you learned it was possible.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Right, right. And so I I graduated from from Marquette and I'd spent three months in Brazil and just went down there and didn't know anybody. Um, was on the flight down there, and I sat next to this young man who was uh he was working in a hotel in Indiana on some work share program, and he was on his way back home and he was going back to Rio, and he gave me his phone number and he said, you know, like I want to be a tourist in my own city because I haven't been home in a long time and I miss Rio. So why don't you come with me? Oh wow. So he took me around and we went to all of them, you know, the tourist things, and then I left and kind of went around the rest of the country, but then finished my trip and I stayed with him and his family at their house. And so, like, I think, you know, it was like you have some of those really good experiences and you feel like I I can do this, do this again. Yeah, yeah. And so I think, you know, and then kind of the professional side of things, you know, the the love for food and and sharing food, like that's one of the one of the things I still love to do is have the you know, all the family come over and spend all day cooking and provide this big feast for everybody and see people enjoy the food that you make and share and create. And it's kind of like, I can, you know, somehow we can do this or I can do this on my professional side of things, whether it's, you know, creating helping to create the supply chains to connect regenerative producers to beef markets so that their animals are going to the right place. And it's kind of that, you know, that bounty that we're sharing still, that feeling still comes through in some of that work and those kind of things. And you know, so it's just always been, you know, that passion to to be a part of the food system and see how different producers can do different things and how we can make it all fit together.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

So you know, you hit on another topic of just that was just brought up uh on another interview with uh Dr. Lundgren where it really smacked me between the eyes, where it was like food is meant to be shared, not bought and sold. Yeah. You know, it's just meant to be shared. It is because it does feel so natural. You know, when you make a meal for somebody, either an individual or a crowd, and watching that experience, you know, and of course when you put all that effort into it, you are watching to see it. Right. And then all your reward comes if they just smile and say, ooh, that's good. Yeah. You know? And it's like, all right, it was all worth it. Right. It was all worth it. But it's like, I, you know, there's a certain ideal there that I that I like that I'm playing with, is like, God, that's so true. It's as food is meant to be shared, and it's so evident when you're in the middle of that. Yeah. So that community piece, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And of course, you know, in a lot of ways we got away from that, you know. Oh, sure. When you think of, you know, I remember when I was working for the for the one gentleman and uh he was talking about the number of minutes that a meal used to last compared to how many minutes it lasts now, and how we used, you know, a dinner used to be an hour, and now dinner is seven minutes. Yeah. And how much of our how much time of it is spent in front of a TV eating dinner instead of at a table. And I'm guilty of that. We s yeah, we sit on the couch a lot of nights and watch something and eat and you know, and gotten away from that. But you know, it it definitely is something that connects all of us. Uh it's the one thing we do every day, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah. Yeah. At least once. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I you know, we'll have to we'll have to value that and encourage that that food sharing and and the events that we pull together. It's like that's gotta be a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

So Yeah, and I that's you know, a lot of that, you know, for me, when I was started, you know, I wanted to learn about farmers that were growing the food and I wanted to low know where it came from. And that's a big part of that component, too, right? Is uh it's not just you know, food doesn't come from a grocery store. Right. It comes from these producers. Yeah. Yeah. It's for folks that are, you know, committed and dedicated to this and want to be a part of this and you know honoring that.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Exactly. Honoring that. Everything that went into getting that food there at that time and prepared. Yeah. We've you know, we we really got away from that. It's like food is just a transaction. That's all it is. Transaction. Whether it's a transaction with our body or a transaction with another person, it's just a transaction. Right. So yeah, we can work on we can work on that if you if you feel that way out there, give us give us some encouragement because I think it's something that collectively we can work on together. Um another fascinating conversation. Thankfully there's more. Check out our next episode.