Integration Nation: Why GlueDog Could Be the Future of PropTech

In this unmissable episode of The Viking Chats, Kristjan Byfield sits down with Mark McCorrie—founder of Made Snappy 360 and the innovator behind the integration tool GlueDog—for a no-holds-barred deep dive into the tangled, chaotic, and often comical world of PropTech in the UK property industry.

If you've ever felt frustrated by the sheer number of logins, dashboards, and disconnected systems in your daily agency life—you are not alone. Mark’s journey from coin-operated internet terminals to pioneering virtual tours and now launching an integration solution for CRMs, is equal parts inspiring and revelatory.

Over the course of this vibrant and fast-paced chat, Kristjan and Mark unravel:

• Why most PropTech platforms still don’t talk to each other—and how that’s killing productivity.
• The inspiration behind GlueDog and how it aims to fix the CRM integration nightmare agencies face daily.
• How smaller, agile innovators like Made Snappy are outpacing the behemoths in delivering value-driven tools for agents and landlords.
• The real cost of clunky tech on agency culture, customer service, and mental wellbeing.
• Why the lettings industry is perfectly primed for disruption—and how landlords and suppliers alike can benefit.

Mark doesn’t hold back. He candidly shares the challenges of scaling tech in an industry built on inertia, how the fear of legacy providers is stifling innovation, and why he believes agents shouldn’t have to be tech experts to run a modern, high-performing agency.

Kristjan, ever the disruptor, challenges assumptions around the industry's ‘techphobia’ and offers sharp insights into what makes technology genuinely valuable (hint: it's not another fancy dashboard). Together, they debate where property technology has gone wrong, where it can go right, and how collaboration—not domination—is the key to progress.

This episode is a must-listen for:

• Estate and letting agents who are tired of jumping between tools and want to understand what true integration could mean for their business.
• Landlords and investors looking for agents who harness tech to deliver better, faster, more transparent service.
• PropTech founders and suppliers ready to be part of a more open, connected ecosystem that actually solves agency pain points.

And yes, in true Viking fashion, there’s plenty of banter, a few tech tangents, and a mutual love of shaking up the status quo.

Whether you're a PropTech geek, a lettings veteran, or simply curious about where the industry is heading—this episode delivers insights, laughs, and some genuinely game-changing ideas.

Tune in, take notes, and most importantly: don’t miss what could be the future of how we all do property.

Transcript

Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats. Delighted to be joined today by Mark McCurry of Blue Dog and Mate Snappy 360. Mark, thanks for joining us today. How you doing? Good, thank you, Andy. Yes, good, good, good, good. Now we're starting this like we haven't already been talking off camera. We obviously absolutely have entry Viking form. We've waffled on for nearly 15 minutes before I draw a line of this and I went, "Come on, let's put this on camera." So Mark, for those who don't know you and don't know your story, tell us a little bit about your life before property and how you fell into Mate Snappy 360. Let's start with that bit of journey before we go on to Blue Dog. My background is always very good at maths. I got the highest math school in the country, one of my intervals. I then went on to do maths at university, got quite a high school in maths at university, but at that point I was getting quite bored with these professors geeking out on maths or this abstract maths that seemed totally useless and started to look at how do we do something a little bit more interesting and how do I do something a bit more interesting and applied. So got quite interested in software engineering and at the end of my university I could barely code but I was applying for a load of coping jobs and there was one job that came back to me that needed mathematicians because they were doing software that involved a lot of 3D maths. So they offered me a job based on my math skills, not because I was a good coder and I effectively let the code on the job. That company was called Delcan. They basically had a lot of software for the design and manufacturing industry. Yeah, so you'd have all the designers that companies, manufacturing companies like Boeing and car companies and space rocket companies. There was that end of their heavy manufacturing industry used a lot of the software and then we also had the other side which was like jewelry, coins, so 90% of the world's coins were designed using the software that I was working on as well, like the 3D effects on the coins. So they really need mathematicians. So, there's a lot of these claim to pay. 90% of the world's coins are designed using the software you've offered. What a random and cool fact. That was before I came along but... Oh wow, now the truth comes out. Well these products have been going for like 20 years. So yeah, look these products just started in the 90s. So you'd have 15 years of earth of work done on another before I even came along. But I've worked for 3D printing. What's that? I said that's some serious legacy software you're talking about by now. Four or five million lines bits of code with 10 to 15 engineers on them. So these were beasts. These were side back when coding standards were non-existent. So there was millions of lines of really poorly developed codes that we had to work with. And so King of Maths, a supreme athlete, shall we say, designing coins and jet engines or helping people design coins and jet engines. And then of course you made the totally local step into virtual tour camera equipment for estate agents. So what happened? Well what happened was I've always been quite driven in person. I've always wanted to start my own business. And even back then I'd only been in the job for two and a half years when I was I was always doing little bits on the side trying to figure out how I'd end up starting my business. I was looking to buy myself a house. I ended up looking at a property investment and I ended up falling into a rental rent. I don't know whether you heard of that. So back up in Burmium. There was quite a lot of people doing it. They would rent a big house, four or five bedrooms, split into rooms and rent out the rooms. And I accidentally found one, five minutes from my house, or seven bedroom house, rented it for about 900 a quarter month and I rented the rooms out for about two and a two thousand four hundred pounds. I could say the bills and stuff in the middle when there was obviously expenses and empty rooms, but that was just one house. And then I just did another 24 of them. I didn't have to build this. Not another three or four. I'd have the 24 of them like it. So I did that for probably four and a half years. I was two year overlap with my job. Even though it's done as big as did you need to launch another business, that sounds like a very tasty little. It's not as good as it sounds like that was the headline number, but you had to buy furniture, you had to put in fire doors, you had to put fire alarms, HMO licenses. There's probably a grand cost per house to take on. So it was constantly recycling the money back in. And then you start hiring staff and have an office. So it wasn't quite as attractive as it sounds. And that business is extremely hard to step back from. I've never seen someone run a HMO portfolio and have it pretty hands-free. It's very hard to train someone on all the things that can go wrong with it. So I ended up, I'm a software engineer running a business, which is actually a people person business. All it was was maintenance problems, tenant problems and empty rooms. And to deal with it was just I do a lot of problems all day long. I guess like typical loan agents experience. I do know what, I didn't hate to do that reason. You get a heightened agency experience. Because I think in a typical agency, like in our agency base, we don't do a lot of HMOs in that room by room. If I don't do any room by room, but we do have a few hands, which have a hate block since, but we always rent them as a single house. I think the thing with HMOs, you add in that kind of conflict to personalities because you've got seven, whatever, you've got seven rooms, you've got seven unrelated, unconnected people. And the dice roll that that is, whereas when we put tenants in on a year, four tenants in a year on a contract together, they've got to work it out. Or they do a change of tenant, but they can't stand there and piss them out and point fingers at each other because they join me in separately liable for everything that happens. I think that's the challenge with HMOs. You can leverage more money out of them, but with it, Carvin's quite a lot more responsibility. And so that tenant management role and aspect and as you highlighted, like the turnover of room, presenting, et cetera, et cetera. So you're right out of the rent-to-end game now. Seeing I got certainly out of that. We must do a bit there, Mark. Say that again. 2019, I got totally out of that. So I've been doing it about four and a half years. I realized my skill set wasn't being cutilized. I'm a software engineer running a people person business, but I was running my own business. It was a good step in the right direction. I learned a lot running that business about property. It took me a lot about business, but obviously about the property market. And that was how I was able to then start building tech for it. But while I was doing that, I was always tinkering with bits of tech for myself. So I built myself a HMO CRM. Because it wasn't really only done on the market at the time that I thought was very good. I think the systems at that point were quite new. So it was all through online, but I think it wasn't that well developed at the time. Built for tools for it. But did you close that with the business? Well, it was the first time I built cloud software. So it wasn't very good. I'm a desktop engineer, moved it to the cloud, moved it to the cloud. So it was a bit of a built-up for my business. It served you well. And you get onto why you started main snappy. This desire, because you've talked about it earlier on in your career, this desire to have your own business. Did you grow up with parents who were entrepreneurial? Or was there anything kind of historically that you was kind of in your personality or DNA to do that? Or was that just something that was always just there, no rhyme, no reason? I think two things my dad always talked about starting a business, but he never did. He was always, "Oh, I could do that. I could have done that." So I had that for a long time, but he didn't actually do it. And then the second thing was, I've always had quite a strong sense of purpose and wanted to build some of the make a difference. And I don't feel like that business was doing that, but that is part of the drive of running businesses to try and solve problems. And that's the only way I felt like I could do it. So it makes snappy. The reason I started that was to solve a problem I had in my previous agency. Blue Dog, the reason I started that was to solve a problem I had it made snappy. And it is very... It's a good degree, Dog. Yeah, we're still solving the main... I still don't get how we quite got from rent to rent to main snappy. So what... You said you were doing stuff on the side. So how did that evolve into actually going, "Right, now this is going to be a bona fide business and this is..." So while I was at my letting sex move business, I was often driving across Birmingham to two viewings. At that point, you had to do quite a lot of work to fill rooms. You had to be quite accommodating to the tenants because it was more of a tenant market than a room's market. So I often found myself driving seven o'clock at night after the traffic had died down all the way across Birmingham for reviewing. And sometimes people just turn up and say, "Don't like it." But they'd seen the photos online. But they just don't give you that. Well, they wouldn't even turn up. So I was getting a little bit frustrated with these waste of time viewings. It felt like it was wasting my time and their time as well. That's what the virtual tours came about. So my brother showed me a 360 camera and we could put it together into one of these tours. So we went and we did virtual tours of all of the properties. And what I started doing was, is there's someone in quite a room first asking the book of you and first thing I'd do is I send them a link and they'd look at the link and they'd say, "Oh, no, the room's a bit smaller. Have you got something bigger?" I sent them a bigger room. That's a nice sized room, but I'd like to find half-door instead of carpet. Send them another virtual tour. Perfect. Can I view that? So I saved myself two viewings. And it was that just doing viewings from my desk. I reduced my viewings by 50% to fill the same stock. So for me, that was a quite big cost reduction, time reduction. And I thought, "Why has never known that?" Hence, it's not even. It was like taking that to the market because I thought good for viewers, good for agents, why not? So it's really interesting you talk about that about the reduction of viewings. Because I think this is something, I mean, we were one of the first agents in the UK to adopt virtual tours. We adopted, I spy 360. I think it was called. Like 10 years ago, something like that. I can't remember exactly where, but it's pretty much where they launched. And I remember we did it initially, primarily around our marketing, but then found that we couldn't really share it anywhere because none of the portholes would list it and any of this sort of stuff. But like you say, it was a really nice way to, we introduced it as an interim viewing. Great. You've booked this viewing, have a look at the tour. We kind of, we slightly did it backwards. We can still book the viewing and then put it in. But actually, what we found early doors where we got really good uptake was we adopted them for our interim inspection reports. And because about 30, 40% of our portfolio clients form a home. They have a bit more of an emotional attachment to that property, maybe than is at a time selfie. But they have that emotional attachment. So just getting like a really generic kind of PDF report with like, yeah, it's fine. And a couple of photos of problems, we would find landlords would sometimes react. Poorly too. So it'd be like, oh, there's nothing showing how good it is. And we'd be like, no, no, no, everything else is fine. We're only here to tell you about the bad stuff. So when we, when we started the interim tours embedded, because so we'd go into the interim inspection, our PMs would shoot the tour. I know it's absolutely not that. So that was, that was where we got really early doors traction on the virtual tours kind of thing. And I said, I spy 360 was for us was a really good early doors one, because I think when, when in fact, actually, before we did I spy 360, we used what were they called? They were acquired by Matterport very early doors. I think they were called virtual walkthrough or something like that. They built a very good algorithm about how you take, how you take the fisheye images and turn them into into walkable tours. But I remember early doors. So we did, we booked a virtual walkthrough package for sales property, we were doing some pound requests, it was like a two million pound property. So we were like, it's fine. We don't mind spending some money to shoot that one property, getting the kind, it was a similar package to what you get now, right? The virtual tour, the stills and a floor plan. I remember correctly, it was nearly 500 quid plus that, but that one property, which was why we went and found us by 360, because I loved the concept of it. But for us as a letting agent, I mean, even as a sales agent, that was crazy money. But as a letting agent, I was like, we want to adopt this, but there's no way we're spending 500 pounds a pop. And what I loved about I Spy 360 was that kind of bridging technology of it wasn't all singing or dancing. You took, you know, I can't remember what camera it was. It was generic on the market, things panasonic, one of the fisheye on both sides. And it would shoot the donuts and you'd drop it into their platform and drag and drop. So it was, you know, there was some work involved for you, but cost wise, it was great. And you know, so, so yeah, we really loved that journey. But I think it's really interesting you talked about viewing, because this is something I've always found fascinating in agency. Is the fact that there are still a lot of agents today, the set of viewing targets for their negotiators or property consultants or whatever you want to call them. And it's something I've never personally agreed with, because personally, I feel like if a negotiator or consultant is doing their job, actually, their job should not be to be out on the road all day, every day, showing lots of people, lots of things, 80% of which aren't what they want, and they're not going to offer it. Just for the sake of kind of being busy, whereas, you know, as you highlighted, and it's something we've always prided from day one with base is, you know, we really want to go and do one viewing at a property. I'd say one viewing, you know, we'll go for half an hour to an hour, we'll have three to six people attend in that time frame. They will have been carefully vetted, you know, and our marketing assets are super accurate. So by the time we get that, we know from that hour at the property, we're going to show six people, we're going to get three offers, all of which are viable, you know, and job done. That to me always makes a lot more business sense than having a negotiator visit that property 10 times over two weeks, you know, and all the hassle and fuss that comes with that, when they could be utilising that time to nurture more applicants, nurture more deals, give landlords more updates, maintain that relationship. Yeah, so it's interesting to hear it because as I went to rent, you were kind effectively you were a landlord, right, in reality, you were kind of an interim landlord. And it's interesting that you saw that efficiency as well, but I'm still mystified that some agents don't see that today. I've a lot of agents have done it, but there is this feeling of when I go to the property and see people, agents are salespeople at heart, but when you see efficiency gains from it, it's crazy how much money has effectively been lost from doing that. So early on in the Made Snappy journey, we had one of our customers offer this money. So that was the only reason we took investment on Made Snappy is because customers literally offer this money. And one of another customer came to us around the same time, and he said to me between Made Snappy and LeadPro, which nurtures and manages the leads and qualifies them. I remember we were one of Sam's earliest clients with LeadPro long before it got sold to nurture. Simple thing, right? That's what it says on the tin. And he said exactly what you've just said, he used to have like half an hour an hour where five or six hearings would take place. But every single one of those hearings have been qualified to use an LeadPro, and had all seen a virtual tour. So they actually liked the place. So that when he turned up, he knew he was running the place with one view. And this was four years ago. What do you need? It's just efficiency, right? Efficiency of operations, you know? It's even if you could have maybe possibly got that landlord 50 pound a month more after umpteen viewings. When you factor out, you know, if an landlord loses two weeks to get that extra 50 pound a month, they're probably out of pocket anyway. For you as an agency, what you're making on that extra 600 pound a year, I mean, if you're lucky, you're making, you know, 60 quid, plus you're giving an egg and factor in petrol costs and everything else. It just, it just doesn't make sense. You best off getting a good deal efficiently and move on, right? Quite an interesting trend in virtual tours at the moment where it's a bit like you've taken, a lot of companies have taken LeadPro and added AI to it. So there's a few companies specifically, they are monitoring all the leads that come through the portrait traffic overnight. And rather than the agent coming in in the morning and having 40 leads to follow up and reply to, they've all gone through effectively a chatbot, which qualified them, just got the booked in for reviewing any insert virtual tours into that process. It's like an AI version of the two things happen at the same time. Looking at potentially going as far as you've seen the virtual tour, would you like to put a deposit down? So the agent comes in the morning instead of having like 10 viewings booked in, the next stage might be you've had three deposits back down. Yeah, I think that's, so I think this raises an interesting debate because I think obviously through COVID that happened a fair bit. However, I've found in our agency and talking to most agencies, we've taken quite a big step away from that. And I think because what you accept is that there is a lot more to a property than the room or the inside of the property itself. There's the neighbourhood, there's the transport links, there's, it's also about whether the marketing assets are up to date as well. If that virtual tour was shot two years ago, does it accurately reflect the phone, the chair, the condition, whatever else? So I think for most of the agents I know or full service agents that I know certainly, they will have, like you touched on a very kind of robust applicant qualification process to make sure that they're getting all that key data. And again, lead pro is great for that because you could customize exactly what was important to your business. You know, then with decent marketing assets, you're going right guys, you have looked at the photos and the floor plan and the virtual tour and the video. So you're sure this is definitely, you know, ticking the box, great. But that final in-person viewing, it's about a lot more. And I think if you manage the property of your hands up, hands on land board, it's also about meeting those people and getting to know what they're like. And I think particularly coming into the renters rights bill era with indefinite tendencies, I think that is going to be even more important going forwards, that landlords and agents are meeting and kind of assessing people on a personality trade basis, not just that they afford it and is it what they want? Because you can place three different tenants in a property on exactly the same income and one can be the delight, one can be all right and one can be a nightmare, but on paper they're identical. And so yeah, the personality thing, I think I'd like to think any like letting go, especially managing agent watching this will agree like that, that personality vetting is a really important part of that. Yeah, definitely. So, so we've done call software, we've done rent, we've pivoted into your own virtual camera business and then what, where does the glue look like for over here? I shortly after I started making snappy. I was going to say, I don't think this could be too long. No, my biggest problem is I see problems, my brain doesn't stop turning around like thinking about it until I'd know how you would probably solve that. But the problem is solving problems can take years if you start there's a so I've had to be extremely patient with my snappy because I know I couldn't pursue some of these other things that I wanted to do. So, good luck spending the bank since 2020. And also, you said just because you know you want to solve a problem, for nothing mean you're ready to. I mean, that sounds very similar to us with the pository, right? We know exactly what that, well, I say exactly what that wrote, man. We know exactly what we want to achieve. But now you said patience is a huge part of it and prioritizing is you have to find that balance of solving problems and emotionally driving the business forward and everything else. So, I can't do business number two if business one number one doesn't succeed. I mean, business number one's given me a little bit more credibility. The investors have seen like returns like quite substantial returns. I've done it. I've pulled the business off. It's making profit. It's good size. I'm not even running the business anymore. I've got a senior management team in place. And that really helps bring in into business number two because I'm a little bit node in the industry. Even if people don't know me, they've known me snappy. Yeah, we find it kind of helps. If I'd have pursued Glue Dog back then, may snappy would have fallen apart and Glue Dog would never have happened. But yes, so may snappy, sorry, Glue Dog, it was around 2020 when COVID hit and I was watching the portal wars happen and the new portals I was thinking, how are they getting integrated into CRMs? It was kind of that that's made me start thinking about CRM integration and one single system that connected everything up. But also when I was trying to buy software for made snappy, I had the same problem. I phone system we're using wasn't very good, kept on cutting out quite low quality. So we ended up going through three or four phone systems before we found one that actually was good, didn't drop out, like recordings, had all the functionality we wanted. We did the same thing with CRMs. We kind of we found a CRM we wanted, but then when we tried to connect the two together, it was like, no, they don't integrate. So our phone system doesn't integrate with our CRM system. Same with marketing systems. And so it was kind of like a bit of a made snappy problem of sales and marketing systems generally with us plus also seeing an industry specific issue that kind of drives the business plan and thinking about Glue Dog. But yes, just sat on it for four years before I could do it if I let them. Yeah, I mean, look, I think, sorry, excuse me. And then, you know, an integrated ecosystem is, you're not the first person to spot that issue. Yeah. It's really crazy. Someone tackle it. You know, I think, God, I mean, I think pretty much since since we started adopting tech in base, well, 15, 16, 17 years ago, you know, already, I think anyone really talked about them as integrations back then, but we definitely talked about the desire of wanting products to want to talk to one another. And I think as time has gone on, that's matured. And I think what's really interesting to see, Charlie Landon of Best Agent. Now, you know, funnily enough, this morning on my memories in Facebook popped up an event, Charlie held six years ago today down in South London, which was, at the time, something he labeled Best Agent Marketplace. And fundamentally, it wasn't really different to what you've proposed. His idea was this bridge system, slightly different business model, the suppliers building, the CRMs building. And I think if I remember correctly, his business model at the time was like, he would take like 10% of revenue. You know, and that was how it funded, you know, and early doors that would hopefully pay for it and down the line, it would become something big. What was fascinating was the buzz around that from the offset when Charlie kind of proposed this was phenomenal. And it scared the bitchesis out of some of the CRMs. I mean, I genuinely think that was the primary driver behind REPIT building their foundations app store. Because it's no secret, they make a decent amount of money through their revenue share partners. And so, you know, that was a business risk. And they pivoted slightly from their business model and built out retail foundations. And I think it also, I mean, there was already CRMs like Desrez and the H and O S. And I'm sure there are others. Those are, for some reason, the two that always spring to mind to me. But I know they were taking a very forward looking kind of open API approach. They were one of the really early adopters on the ZAPIA. Again, I think off the back of that conversation. I was always kind of surprised that never maintained momentum. But something you and I have talked about is I think the interesting thing about building this ecosystem is there is definitely the requirement for a substantial level of trust or buy-in to the people involved. And I think, you know, with the greatest respect to Charlie, who is a make-mind, it's not that people don't trust it. I don't think it's a question of trust with him. It's, as you said, talking about your commercial history and kind of delivering. Yeah, for whatever reason, it just didn't win the kind of support and buy-in that got to be honest at the time. I mean, we were about a year away from launching Depository at the time. So we had it within base and we were working on that. For me, as a kind of someone coming into the supply space, a bit like we knew when I started talking, I was like, this is just a no-brainer. Like, you know, you're probably not going to get the buy-in from the big boys from the REAP bit MRI and ZUPA at the time because they were pretty, it's called a siloed ring-fenced operations. But generally, the rest of the market space, I think, was kind of opening for a solution. I mean, I remember around then talking with Brief Your Market, you know, and I remember them telling me at the time that they had over 50 individual integrations that they'd built into different agency-related products. You know, and I remember being like, what did that cost? Even if you spend 10 grand and you know both no integrations can often cost a hell of a lot more than 10 grand, even at 10 grand, that's half a million quits with the integrations right there before you factor in updates and maintenance and, you know, adding new features and blah, blah, blah. So yeah, I think it's one of the things that surprises me is it's taken us this long to get to someone like you packaging it up, right? But I think it's absolutely a no-brainer in terms of, from a supplier perspective, you know, I mean, you and I have talked about this at length, our CRM integrations, we built one for PropCo as part of our contract deal with LRG nearly four years ago. We're building one for reap at the moment. Those were massive projects. I mean, our reap it project is what we now on month seven of that build. Now, part of that is because we've been building our architecture to more easily deliver partnerships with the likes of Gludor. But that's a seven month project which is going to cost us six figures. And, you know, even if you halve that, even if you say, right, the architecture we built now is going to halve that on projects going forward. For us to look at NCRMs, you know, again, at 50 grand a pop and three months a pop to deliver it, let's say. That's a lot of money and that's a lot of time building. So yeah, for me, you guys are just an absolute no brainer. Talk to me a little bit about how you guys landed on your business model because fundamentally you're not really looking at billing suppliers. You're really looking at saying to agents that you're the beneficiary here. You get to plug this into that and that into this for X amount per month. How, what was that journey like figuring out because all of these things have to have some sort of commercial underpinning. How did you guys land on that kind of business model? Oh, there we go. Sorry, we just, we just get a little lag in your audio drop. It's all good. Do you remember the thought process behind it? But I think it was similar to like, I was looking at Zapier as a, what was the basis for middleware? That's essentially what it is, middleware that connects things up. And the way they charged was you want things all connected up, then you pay your Zapier subscription of this amount and that does all the connect. And it was kind of, it was kind of built off the back of that full process there. And it was also, there's something to value to these integrations. When you ask agents about that biggest problems with tech, the two things that they generally come up with is lack of integration and having to log into 20 different systems. And so it is the biggest problem in tech, but in, I think it was the voice of the agent for the last couple of years running it. When surveys are done, this is the biggest problem. This is the biggest problem. Surely, like people are willing to pay for it, said that that was why we went down the model of you want to fix, then we can just charge you, charge you a subscription for it. But it was also, let's make it as possible. We want to solve an industry issue. It's been, like people were saying to us when I first started talking to them about it, like someone should have done this 10 years ago, was what one person said to me. And I can't remember, I was kind of, my brain's just gone. But we knew it was a big industry issue that people wanted solved. But yeah, just go back to your point on the cost as well. Like you took about the upfront cost of building it, like six figures to get one connection and then maybe obviously a lot less than that now you've built the infrastructure. By building onto all these different systems, we had a lot of friction in upgrading the tech because suddenly you went out a new feature to your products and you've got to go back and look at all these 20 integrations that you've built and figure out how to upgrade every single one of them. And that might require conversation with the CRMs to do an update. Just that coordination. We had a supply come back to us recently that decided that we're just going to go, they said their natural fit was connecting onto CRMs directly. Caught me up after a few months and said, Mark, I've just realised we're going to have to hire two people. Yeah. I mean, we've got, what have we got a depository now? We've got, we've got, I think, eight inventory partners. We've got four deposit scheme integrations, two CRMs and a utility. So what's that like, I don't know, 15, let's call it 15 integrations. My heart skips a beat every time I see an email in my inbox from one of our integrated partners going software update or system update. I'm like, because I'm like, you know, like you said, you don't know. Is that going to change something? Is that going to change everything? You know, we've had some big ones as well. TDS have entirely moved their kind of CRM system they use. So we've had to rebuild our integrations with them. No letting go built an entirely new capture software system. So we've had to totally, well, you know, to completely rebuild, but we had to tweak what we'd built to them before they largely built the framework. But yeah, you know, it just, it exposes you fundamentally to a huge amount of risk because also once your clients are loving that integration, you know, and benefiting from everything that it delivers, that becomes an expectation, right? This is how it works. I plug these things in. It does xyz. So they're probably not going to be that interested when you go like, oh, yeah, they roll out an update two weeks ago. And yeah, we could be able to fix it in about like two months time. So yeah, I mean, I'm slightly mystified that this never kind of got picked up sooner. But I think it's great. But as an agent and as a supplier, I just, it takes away that friction point, like you said. And I think, yes, there is obviously going to be a small cost. Because I think the charges you propose to agents are super reasonable. There is a small cost to the solution you deliver to an agent. But the uplifting what they get, the benefit they get way outweighs that cost. And I think it also instantly resolves whether that agent genuinely isn't adopting that product because it doesn't integrate with their CRM or whether that's just an excuse that they use. Because it's just an easy way to say, no, no, I don't want your product to rather than go, I don't want your product to go, oh, yeah, come back to me when it integrates with the CRM. So I think it's an interesting one. So let's talk CRM so far. So who were kind of like your pioneering CRMs? Who are the ones who were like have been on this early doors and have already kind of built quite an established integration with you guys? Though last year before we even started, but there's this, I went around talking to CRMs to see if this was even viable because if they weren't interested then the business just wouldn't have happened. Yeah, surprising, I had a surprising amount of positive responses from the CRMs because I had a few people warning me that this was going to be too hard to do. We've had some great relationships with CRMs. Like Apex 27 was the first one we probably had a chat with. They've done us like 40, 50 updates. They're very onboard with you, Doug. It was surprising a little bit the interest from the CRMs. I think some of the CRMs are particularly some of the big ones that you've talked about don't like concept because they've got wools up and they're trying to monetize integration as much as possible. So there's been a little bit of challenges down the end of the market, but there's a lot of new CRMs that have popped up that see the issues there as well, because if they have to deal with 100 suppliers connecting onto them, they have to give them sandbox accounts, have to show them other CRM works, have to support them. They have to, integrations don't get built right the first time around. They never get built right the first time around. No. It's, and you try to build onto someone else's system that you don't understand and even people connect onto us, they never build it right the first time around. So there is that backup all the supply support on the CRM site that we've got in integrations. But yeah, so Apex 27 really good, done loads of updates, they're very boring to the concept. They just want to make sure their customers can have the best tech. If your tech doesn't talk to it with the tech, then I mean, that's the whole point. This might automate stuff and they can't do that if it doesn't talk. And then CRMs are very much on their plate, right? I think it's really interesting when I talk to the audience, you know, I've got to say to agents and they're like, oh, why don't the CRMs just build this and just build that? I'm like, dude, they don't have a backup in front of those. You'll see your M's depth. I'm like, there is no just. And I'm like, this allows your CRM to focus on what you really need from a CRM. So really good data base, hopefully really good data and reporting, you know, your compliance, your really core functionality. And sure, in the future, they might build out this, they might build out that. But for now, why not plug this stuff in? And rather than build a half rate version, rather than say, oh, we can do what, I don't know, for example, we can do what fixed flow does, but building something with half the functionality in it that the fixed flow has because it's a specialist and a very well established product. Do you want your CRM to build like a half rate product and charge you half the amount of money? Or do you want to plug in the product that really delivers on the solution? And it is totally intact. And I think for most agents, that answers pretty obvious. So I kind of discovered doing this was before I started people moaning about CRMs, like a lot of suppliers and moaning about CRMs, we're trying to get this into question, we can't have that. When I started talking to the CRMs, one thing that was really interesting was, there was almost any question that suppliers gave me if CRMs was like not interested, like, no, we're not doing this. They actually really want to build stuff and prove user experience. There's actually a massive willingness on the CRM side to do. I think there's just technical challenges as well with resource and challenges with roadmap. Everyone's got really busy tech roadmap, six to 12 months already locked down and trying to get in it is really hard because you've got 20 customers asking for this and that's getting done. But the five customers asking for this other thing, that's not going done. It's still a business, right? I think, you know, and it's really interesting you say that because obviously, you know, we've been on that journey with the repository. We've had lots of chats with CRMs over the period of time. And I would say that you said generally, I've found those conversations incredibly welcoming, incredibly positive about working together. Part of the reason a lot of those haven't happened is actually down to us. Our resource hasn't been capable to do everything we would have loved to have done. And also because, like you said, same with the CRMs, same with us. You only have so much dev resource. And so what are you investing it on? You're still a commercial entity. So, you know, for the CRMs, they could build 10 different partner integrations and no one bloody uses them. You know, so there's no customer improvement. There's no revenue partnerships. There's no money coming out of that. And all you've done is, you know, is splurge 2, 3, 400,000 pounds in dev salary of building stuff that agents told you they wanted, but they aren't really using it. Because it doesn't work, maybe how they thought it would and, you know, blah, blah. So, yeah, I think my experience of the CRM landscape is that I've always found them very open to partnerships. But for them, it's that challenge of, look, there's only so much resource we can apply to partnerships each year. So we've got to, you know, how many of our existing clients use your system? How many do you think are going to come on as a result of it? You know, and that's fair enough. We've all got people's salaries to pay and, you know, some of us have investors to feed back to and everything else. And yeah, I think, the most challenge of ours should be with suppliers. So all these complaints about CRMs and not doing stuff, actually, when I've, what I've been doing things, my experience was it's actually worse on the supply side. Supplies saying, oh, we need to build an integration. It gets built, and then they never connect. And this is something CRMs, I'm sure have experienced a lot, whereas suppliers are really excited about doing the integration and it never happens. And the CRMs just wasted some debt work. But yeah, yeah, I mean, we definitely had that as well. And look, and also there is that, that incredibly frustrating nature of debt, which is trying to deliver a very specific project within a very specific timeframe is often hard. And the bigger, the bigger the project, the more complex it is, the harder it is to predict that. Case in point, we thought we'd be delivering repeat in four to five months. So, you know, there we go. There's an example of that. And I think that's the other thing. It's the challenge of matching up those resources. And again, I think what's great with you guys, and this is why we very happily jumped on board with you guys. I can't wait for us to start building that all out in the next few weeks, is that, yeah, for us, you know, we can just crack on, get that done, put it in place, and then really, you know, alongside you guys, we can just nurture those relationships that you have with the CRMs just to go guys, this is here. These are the benefits, this is what your clients have, you know, we can look at our existing clients, those customer bases. We also know which agents on our database are looking to move CRM at the moment. So, you know, and who they're quite often who they're looking at, because we're all quite often get looped into those conversations from my 10 pence on, you know, what works and what does them, what's good and what's bad. And it's really nice to be able to say, well, look, you know, one of your frustrations with your current CRM is that a lot of products you don't use are integrated, but, you know, I know you guys use us and these three other products, and I know through glue doc, you can have all of those plugged in. So, yeah, I think it's a really exciting time. I think, you know, with everything you've got going on at the moment with AI, but also, you know, with you guys kind of solving that integration puzzle, you know, where we can be in the next kind of 12 to 24 months as an industry, I think it's going to be really exciting, really, really exciting. So, I'm hoping to see a lot more suppliers really engage with you guys, really buy in and start building stuff. And, you know, and in turn seeing the CRMs, you know, as you said, you're already getting good engagement from the CRMs, but seeing the CRMs leverage that and build some really cool partnerships. I think it's going to be super exciting. The engagement from the suppliers side room, which spoken with over 100 suppliers in the last 12 months, they've all said, like, this sounds amazing. Let's do it. It all comes back to debt free source. A lot of suppliers struggle with debt free source, or they've got six to 12 months on their roadmap. We've had suppliers start connecting and get pulled off because something urgent has come up like quite a few times I've heard what you said before of someone's done a software update and they've now got a patch in integration that's already built. And so those are the probably biggest challenges, but what's changed with us in the last, say, two months is we've come up with this Chrome extension idea and we can now connect up any supplier that's got an API. And that's been a game changer for us because we've suddenly got a wait list for our connections now. We've never had an issue with suppliers saying this is a great idea. It's more of been an operational implementation issue. We've gone down the last couple of months. We've got so many big partner supplies coming through now that it's very exciting time. That's really cool. Just very busy. Apart from the depository, are you allowed to say who any of those are? Yeah, we've got. So when we came up with the Chrome extension idea, that was literally last month. So last month we tied up five key partners, partly for the proxy might launch. The depository was one of them. We've got Lebanon live in Syria's. We've got Flatfair, which is zero deposit. We've got Cool Switch 1, which is a phone system. We've worked with Global 4 on that, which is an IT. Last one. So it's Global 4. It's an IT. Management company, yeah, telecom company that are working with us to get one of their phone systems that they work with connected. And then the Estus. Nice. What's really nice there is you've got really good spread, right? You've got cartwheels, you've got conversions, you've got reviews, you've got who else was in there. I can't remember that. Yeah, oh, Flatfair, the positive alternatives. Yeah, really cool. It's really cool. Look, it is a no-brainer. And I think you need the more you get, the more you'll get, right? As soon as we start seeing some of these dropping in, an agent's going, oh, wow. You know, this is it. For like 100 pound a month, I can be plugging in X, Y, Z, and this transforms my team's life. You know, and I think interestingly, as I touched on, I mean, when we won't talk too much about this because I've talked about it enough in other podcasts, but obviously with AI and everything that's coming with now, you know, that's going to be really interesting because, you know, you've got bespoke AI products for our industry, you know, they'll be able to plug in via you guys. But also, I think in time, you'll also be able to look at the big AI engines out there and potentially offer little plug-ins yourself for those because quite a lot of those have have quite a simple plug-in options there. So yeah, I think, you know, like you said, it's a really exciting time. I think the next six to 12 months is going to see you guys transform a lot more from a concept to a reality, and along across a load of different touch points, so you're going to get a lot of different agents and suppliers in different marketplaces, seeing substantial, a substantial shift in how your products work, speak to each other, how your team use them. Super exciting, super exciting. So we've had less supplies go live than we expected partly because they just keep on going to pull off projects. So we've probably got 10 actually live, another 15 very close to going live as is then connecting onto us, and then we started building up there where we're in the driving seat. We do the integration, so we've got another five to 10 of them coming through, so we'll be... The 10 you've got live is that primarily on the CRM side? No, these are supplies, these are all supplies. So let's give a shout-out to those suppliers who are already in the system. So who have we already got? I'm going to pick it on the spot now. I think you have the website. Yeah, you have something wrong with that. I do this now, we're getting to a point with our partners list, so I'm like, "Is that everyone?" So yeah, let's give a shout-out to those kind of champion innovators who've really actually got on board and actually done the good. So who you've got so far? So we've got KPR Global, which is Inverteries and Inspection Software. I've got Keys app, which is Key Management. Got Citi, which is vendor on boarding, or sale on boarding. Made Snap-A-360, so that's my other business with the fundamental plans. I've got Movely, which is material information. Move-O, which is utility switching. Nestflow, which is an AI lead nurturing tool. They do AI lead nurturing, but they've got a broader set of tools. Visit a chat with a system that sits on your website. It's like a chat system that pushes leads into your CRM. We've got Wink Cloud, which is like a video system and helps you produce really good videos for walkthroughs and property. And then we've got about 15, which would just feel like on the edge of going live as well. So we're about to have more of the capital. I've got a spectrum. Even those 10 you've got live. Again, they're pretty much all different things, different elements, different pain points within the business. How cool, really exciting. So it's getting there. And I think we've asked you in the drive and see it in the Dev work, that's going to accelerate. That's probably going to triple the speed at which supplies come for us, because we could do four or five, six supplies a month now. Nice. On top of the ones connected onto us. So very excited. And I wish I got a little bit more sleep than I do now. You know, maybe that was, I can't help you with that. You have to build an app for that. So where can, where's the best place for people to go to find out more? Is it just your website? Yeah, if they go to the website, gluedog.ai, they can register the CRM, they can look at the supplies we've got on board and the ones coming soon. I'm also happy to jump on a call and just find out what supplies they've got to see if we can get them connected as well. And are you guys going to be, what's the next conference? The Fafel conference? Fafel conference, yeah. Yep. You guys there? Fantastic. We'll be there as well. So yeah, we'll be revealing our new AI tool and our repo integration. But we go and see you guys there as well. So if you're going to the Fafelcon and if you're not, why aren't you? Get down there, go and talk Mark and Vicky at gluedog and go and find out more, get on their website, engage, talk to your key suppliers, see who's on there, talk to your favorite suppliers in your business now, and talk to them about gluedog. Because genuinely, as a supplier and agent myself, this is a no-brainer. Right? From both an agent's perspective and the supplier's perspective, you know, as I said to Mark, we've already in our fairly young age business. We've already got 15, 16 partner integrations and that is already a huge burden on our business. So we're all in with doing as much as we can with gluedog over the next kind of six to 12 months and seeing what that looks like. But as agents, your suppliers will listen to you guys. So go out and talk to them and get them to engage with Mark and Vicky at gluedog and start understanding what this means and get them to understand what it means to you as an agent, you know, where that big shift is. Because, you know, in six, 12, 18 months, you know, if we can help these guys build a kind of integrated platform with 30, 40, 50 suppliers in maybe more, what an exciting space that would be. And the more supplies we get in, the more buy-in we're going to get from CRMs. So the more we're going to see that CRM buy-in expand and the more we're going to see the existing CRMs develop what they've got with gluedog, making these possibilities greater. And we then get to a, we then, you know, potentially get to a marketplace, which is a bit like the app marketplace from your smartphone. Right? Because right now it's not. And I think that's the thing is agents often think that, you know, when we talk about integrations, you just download an app and put in a couple of login details and hey presto, you know, it's up and working. And that's the way it should be for an agent. But we've never really had that as an open marketplace. But if we can really push suppliers and CRMs to engage with you guys within six, 12, 18, 24 months, we can have this incredible ecosystem where you can be on a ton of different CRMs and you can work with a ton of different suppliers. And you can just seamlessly plug in what you want. Mark sucks on the Chrome extension that they're plugging in as well, where it gives you that potentially saves you skipping from dashboard to dashboard. It just gives you a snapshot view of like the latest key actions within your kind of central product partners. Yeah, all super exciting. And Mark, I think we've offered on enough there. Was there anything you wanted to add in before we got. I think you've sold my business better than I could. As I go back, again, good good good products, good solutions, you know, they deserve to be shouted about. So, you know, agents talk to your suppliers, suppliers talk to Mark, CRMs talk to Mark. And let's see what we can get things in 10, 12, 15, 18 months, whatever it is. Mark, thank you so much for your time today. Been an absolute pleasure. I can't wait for us to get our API built out with you guys at the positive trees can be super exciting. And I suppose all is left to say is see you in what is it? Two and a half week? No, two weeks today, isn't it? Two weeks today, KefuffleCon at Wembley. See you there. It's good. Just question. Thanks, haven't we? All right, thanks Mark. Cheers, help. Bye, bye. - Thank you.