Adapt or Disappear: Agency, AI & the Real Digital Threat with Russell Quirk

In this candid and explosive episode of The Viking Chats, Kristjan Byfield sits down with the ever-outspoken Russell Quirk, property PR maverick, founder of eMoov, and one of the most polarising voices in the UK residential property scene. If you’re a decision maker in estate agency, lettings, property management, or a serious residential investor—especially in London—this is an episode you cannot miss.

Russell opens up on nearly three decades of property experience—from inheriting the family estate agency DNA in Fulham, to founding and scaling one of the UK’s most prominent online agency brands (eMoov), and now running ProperPR, a specialist agency helping property businesses stand out and be heard.

🧨 Real Disruption Has Nothing to Do with Price

Think disruption in estate agency is about slashing fees? Think again. Russell and Kristjan unpack the outdated notion that price-led models like Amazon or Purplebricks are the future. Instead, they argue that real disruption is about service, transparency, and tech-enabled efficiency.

Expect brutal honesty about what went wrong with eMoov, why most “disruptive” models fail, and why the obsession with “cheaper and better” is misguided.

🤖 AI is Coming for Your Business – Are You Ready?

Russell drops a bombshell: over 50% of agents have never used AI—and say they never will. He and Kristjan unpack what that really means for the future of the industry, particularly in a world of:

• Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO)
• AI-driven property search (beyond portals)
• Digital trust and the decline of brand-first thinking

This isn’t speculation—it’s already happening. From inventory systems using AI to streamline reporting, to agencies using ChatGPT for customer interactions and marketing, Russell predicts a seismic shift in how customers will find, evaluate, and choose agents.

🧠 Marketing, Legacy Brands & the Shift to People-First Agency

If your brand is your only differentiator, you’re in trouble. Kristjan and Russell explore why personal brand is eclipsing corporate identity—and how self-employed models like eXp, The Agency UK, and Hortons are winning by being human, visible, and tech-savvy.

Russell also shines a harsh light on legacy brands like Dexter’s, Savills, and Spicerhaart, warning that social media silence and digital obscurity are existential threats in the AI age.

📉 Conveyancing Is Broken – And Ripe for Disruption

You thought agency was clunky? Try conveyancing. From Spain’s rapid 7-day conditional contracts to the UK’s glacial, risk-averse system, this episode dives into how tech could finally shake up the archaic British conveyancing process.

Russell makes a powerful case for high-fee, high-service models—and challenges conveyancers to offer platinum-level services for those willing to pay for speed, certainty, and professionalism.

🔥 Raw Opinions, Real Talk, and Actual Solutions

This episode isn’t about buzzwords. It’s about survival, evolution, and competitive edge. Kristjan and Russell debate:

• Why relying on portals is a crutch—and a risk
• How AI search will flatten brand hierarchies
• What smart investors and landlords should demand from their agents
• Why leadership mindset—not tech—is the biggest barrier to progress

Whether you run a high street branch, manage a BTR portfolio, lead a PBSA operation, or are building a property PR strategy, this is the kind of no-filter, truth-laden conversation that will help you stay relevant.

🎧 Listen to the full episode now on Spotify:
 https://open.spotify.com/episode/3qYImM0cx92qvI7mqyrEMQ?si=abb2

Transcript

Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats and I'm joined today by none other but the shy and retiring the person who doesn't have an opinion on anything and keeps himself very much to himself. Mr Russell Quirk? Yes that's me hello. So Rusty for those watching who live under a shell and don't know who you are tell us a little bit. Wow who am I? I run a PR agent's sequel proper PR which is almost exclusively for property businesses. I have been in property for it's going on nearly 30 years now. And you're the son of a state agent? I'm a grandson. You're the grand son. Yeah it's state agents. Yeah who my grandfather started the original family business back in the 50s in Fulham. He then expanded that business across Essex as I am and as an Essex boy through and through. When he died the business then transferred to my dad and his two brothers who consequently ruined it. Literally ruined it. Spent all the money. I don't know this is an old trope but on cars houses and wine the rest as they say we're wasted says my dad laughing up until the point that he died a few years ago. So yes I am literally property in my DNA I suppose it's fair to say. I have been an agent therefore built a few houses here and there done a bit of prop tech. Tried to disrupt the market. Yeah I could say probably most infamous for e-move which was a business that I ran for nine years. Founded it in my lounge. Grew it to a business with about 140 staff. We did lots of mergers. Raised lots of money and that fell on its arse in 2018 very famously which a situation that made people feel very happy I think in the industry. I can't imagine that anyone lauded that over you or kind of did get a bit of a stick but then I deserved it on the basis that I had set myself up to be a contravert. A pantomime villain. I did that on purpose because I generally believe that the estate agency sector should be disrupted and should be better. I still think it should be better but also because some shock horror I wanted attention because I wanted to build the brand. Who would do anything like that? It's marketing but in a way that was edgy you know different sir I think Elon Musk probably has learned a few things from me I would say Kristjan over the last few years. Undoubtedly. We're not going to touch on what those things were though. So let's talk about trying to disrupt the market. Yeah alright so let's talk about this because this is something I find fascinating. Is disruption pricing? No or fee. I thought it was. I thought it was. Bearing in mind when I conceived the whole emove idea which was actually back in 2006 as I think would future agent. Yeah. My business partner at the time and I bought that domain name, built the website. We were having such a great time. You think about to 2006/7 before the financial crisis it was great to be able to do it. At the time I thought that the disruption would be price led and the reason I thought that was because that was at the same time as the rise of Amazon and you know other disruptive businesses like lastminute.com very famously they will price led in terms of their disruption. I'm mistakenly see how humble I am Kristjan. I'm mistakenly thought that it would be a commoditization a democratization and commoditization of this data industry whereby we could disrupt through price. Now in fairness online as daytations as it was. So our hatched house network how simple as it was then purple bricks later we did achieve about an 8% market share which doesn't sound a lot but from nothing in four or five years not bad but that's all it got to and that's where the cumulatively it would have made you substantially the largest ages in the country at the time. Oh yeah so I think the biggest was probably a countrywide or a quarter of three or percent. So definitely and of course if there'd only been three participants which they were when I first started emove it was us Adam Day attached and house network which was Graham Locke and Mark Redding's if it counted on as just the three of us we'd had three-ish percent each happy days. And how fascinating to see how you three have gone off because obviously Graham Locke's got FIA. Yeah Adam Day is the shine retiring quiet person behind some unknown the genius behind the ex-puk and has built that now to be by some measures the largest estate agency brand. Yeah I mean that was that was some fascinating stuff. Before we go on to that though let's stay on the disruption thing so yeah so I no longer think it's pricing I still think that the sector needs to be disrupted but by different things in a different way to get a reason. Why do you think though? Because this is something I find fascinating why do you think most entrepreneurs seem to tie pricing and disruption so close to each other. It's the easiest thing. So because if it's fascinating right. It's the easiest lever to pull. I got introduced to a young entrepreneur the other day who I met with yesterday. Fascinating guy Jesus Christ talks so much makes me look shine retiring so it gives you an idea about yeah he talked a lot a lot fast but fascinating energy. I graduated out about a year ago and he will build something like he's already kind of tried like three different things already. Yeah but the fascinating thing was you know talking me through everything he's done and everything he aspires to do it was always like oh I'm gonna build this but better and do it for half the price. Yeah and I find it fascinating and bizarre the fact that those two sentences go together. Okay better but cheaper. Yeah yeah so but that's because of what I call the Amazonification of everything right my word by the way that started off back in whenever 2005 6 7 8 9 as Amazon became prominent we believe that because Amazon last minute and others and banks and so on were disrupting a price that that was the only way forward what we didn't realize and I guess maybe if you then go forward the 10 12 years since then we've tried to do the price disruption thing which often has been to the detriment of quality of service and now what people are looking for a quality of service. Well the price right was it I think the difference is Amazon truly disrupted how that element of business looks but everything yeah and but but leveraged the price point as a precursor for adoption that people didn't really understand what they were buying into but we come through that now right so there's this look at some examples quickly so huge disruptors in the world now that are not price sensitive so you've got Tesla. Tesla's not a cheap product it's an expensive product has disrupted actually I think as we speak I know it does that all the time but probably the most valuable car company on the planet not through being cheap. Here's a very interesting real world example five guys yeah five guys you know you go into McDonald's and that's not Russell's only only fans channel by the way. That's a good idea might be tomorrow. Tune in thanks to a burger sauce on that please. So for years for decades McDonald's competed with Burger King and it was you know happy meals for three quid and you know you could have a full scale up upgrade meal you really like fries with that for £5.20 or whatever five guys come along and they're 15 quid for a burger chips and a drink and I bet when Charles Dunstan and there's a thread here obviously Charles Dunstan's been the main investor in Purple Bricks now was how simple was strike got to get confusing is also one of the biggest investors in five guys right when they pitched that to investors I bet the investors said this is ridiculous you're three times the cost of McDonald's and the answer was yeah but the quality of the product is three times better. So it's a work right so there's there are all of these disruptors now that are not price led they are either service led quality led or increasingly now we're going to get to the point where it's technology led but not for the point not for the sake of technology but because technology and obviously what I'm talking about particularly is AI is an I hate this phrase because if we idiot uses it the game changer but but AI I think in our industry default interface now I think right well it's gonna be that but it but it's but I don't think in the property industry the majority of people understand the effect the chat GPT grok and others are gonna so there was a way to sustain it you saw it was a couple of weeks ago inventory base did a survey because off the back of their their base AI or whatever they called it which are all about the base which I love having obviously base for you yeah it was it was a nice little tag ladder we worked with them as well so that's nice but you should send Steve a check yeah no and but well I do every month but they did a survey they they put survey results out about two weeks ago and it admittedly of their own admission it was a small pool yeah but I think it was 51% of agents surveyed said that they had never an important this is the other important bit and will never touch AI Wow okay those agents in five years time will be closed I don't think they've even got that long okay I'm being generous right I really don't think and you think back to Simon they sit is going out think think back to Simon's kerfuffle conference so what we talked about Chris what can an island stage was the way that the consumer searches right so forget what we think you know us old fellas that you know have an excuse not to be particularly enamored with AI right but think about our kids so I've got 17 and 15 year old daughters they don't know what right movies they don't even use Google they're using chat GPS in the future this is what's going to happen when you're searching for an agent letting agent and their first their first desire is not to interact with a human yet that that's the first thing but then also they kind of don't trust Google because we were known that Google can be gained by way SEO Google can be gained by way of PPC Google ads right at the moment and this may well change AI search whether it's Groc chat GPT or whatever it is pure on the basis it's not just looking for domain authorities not just looking for those websites that have spent the most money on SEO agencies it's a search process that you deep and more and you are right more nuanced you can teach it who you are what you like so you can write ten lines so you're 51% stats scares me a bit like the stat that we used on stage which is 39.7% of agents don't think that social media has any part to play market but is that the same 50% who never answer their right move leads yes and they're also the people that don't go to conferences because they think they know it all and they're the exactly the people that should go to these conferences to hear Simon you me you know Tim from Creed ass you know whoever else is on stage I don't argue look I don't argue with the conferences it's it's even less about the people on the stage it's more about the people in the room yeah go and put yourself in a room with 500 to a thousand of the countries best agents yep ask fucking questions yep and listen oh we'll have to swear that's great to know so I got with every question really be really happy I remember when I published them as a little box to say does it have explicit content and I'm like it does it or not did I swear with that guess I know it's a self yes that's that's where genuine disruption is coming it will have nothing to do with price it'll have everything to do with convenience and accuracy of search so I want to find the best estate agent in a old spree or I'm looking for a three bedrooms attached house with a big garden within three minutes of a grammar school that gets me into the city within some minutes now is out doing his his right move to right and he won't move the dead I mean it's always about I said this on stage I think right move it did and this is also my and again I'm going to be can I just be somewhat controversial because you expect nothing less what I think you're not allowed to have an opinion on this this is complete supposition I have no evidence to back this up whatsoever but just help me join the dots right so co-star come along and pay a hundred million quid for on the market they say within a 12 months as is the rumor we're going to spend 40 million quid on marketing and a reband brew brand to home.com that was three years ago nearly nothing has happened why because I think co-star thought shit I don't think these UK portals maybe portals across the world are going to exist because of chat GPT AI and so on that's why they haven't spent the money and the role that look look they are still a data source and an AI does like data but but there will be a bit the differences Kristjan there'll be a small data source so because they'll only have one roses around the door to better mentor at Terry's cottage. So potentially so interestingly what what will make right move and Zoopla and on the market and any portal relevant to AI is the detail the accuracy and the availability of information what is what are three things that all of the portals have never particularly focused on with their agents detail accuracy information yeah yes they make it readily available but the other two you think how many listings you've seen where an agent has listed a house but it's but it's flagged as an apartment it's categorized as an apartment or vice versa. People relying on in some cases an amateur agent that doesn't isn't very good at writing descriptions to write the description and all their descriptions will be we are delighted to offer for sale this we are proud to offer for sale that all of that stuff just gets discounted but also what but it's the truth but the portals could have circumnavigated some of this right well they could use AI to help write in their registry you know they could have gone in and verified but there is the big difference though here's the big difference at the moment people go to write move to find a property because of the money that marketing that those guys have been on market yeah right it's in their psyche so apparently the word write move is searched for more than the words property search right they own that right it's been a top 20 UK website okay across all sectors but with AI search that changes AI doesn't care about gravity prominence size what AI is looking for is I need to find probably five or six results yeah so I'm just gonna find five or six results from right move is it it's gonna go to your website web site we talked about Mel's little tour and anyone who hasn't seen that Mel has this video of a property search he does I think he does it on Manas Manas AI and he likes that and he explains because it shows what it's doing yeah which is really interesting yeah and in that he puts in as you alluded to earlier I'm looking to move down near near Portsmouth I need a three-bedroom house I've got this budget I've got kids this age and that age they need to go to a decent school and then he also says we are into ballroom dancing and nature walks yep and it is fascinating the way it starts so it starts I think it starts looking at the schools sets that parameter then it looks for the walks and the ballroom dancing yep that sets another size and then within that then looks for those but this is why people watching this obviously will have a website of some description need to make sure that it is accurate up-to-date relevant and so on but also and this isn't a pitch for proper PR by the way but you've got to make sure that there are third-party accreditations that show AI search that your website is credible so if you have people talking about you online through social media or digital PR AI search is more likely to find you but that's why all of a sudden whereas at the moment right movies the number one website to be found by way of their domain authority now going forward AI search ignores that doesn't care about domain authority it cares about the fact that you've mentioned certain words you just become one of 10 citizens there's also lots of people who complain about you know inaccurate listings on right move fake listings on right move old things are they got real problem look we know we know it's prevalent within agency lots of agencies leave listings up way past the time they've let us hold AI might start to take with our things up you know right move this right move have never and sorry we're taking right move in I'm not really sure any of the portals that have ever been very effective because for them more portals more stock more president so as long as it's not so let's be clear right where you see the clerk on the market are all in the same bucket here they are for the first time in 20 years vulnerable yeah I don't think they'll know what to do about it because they can't do anything to make themselves better because it's not how AI searches no you know and again without boring people who had domain authority works they spent 20 years building domain authority into the 90s that fucking doesn't matter any no although I think what what is interesting about you know GEO or or what's the other assignation for it generative engine optimization or answer engine a is the answer engine optimization and fundamentally the core principles of marketing are remaining the same yeah put out as many messages as you can across as many mediums as you can and try and have other channels of authority legitimize your content yes so it is fundamentally not really no that's always the underpinnacles marketing needs to be holistic and it all comes down to two words BC right so and be holistic across various different platforms the problem is in our industry and again this is the controversial thing from Russell Quirk again I can't believe you said it is we have become as an industry very reliant on the portals for our marketing oh for sure and and also pie charts and windows all that whole shit we've now got to go back to when right move didn't exist and think how did we get found then okay so we had we got found online in a different way maybe it was I mean that's at least half the industry that has never experienced yes so so what I'm saying is that we've got lazy because of right move now you've got to think again about how people are going to find you and then optimize accordingly must do that if not there's a lot of agents are just gonna I mean and all of them the big high street agents the independence and so on you know it is the question who does well out of this what it's gonna be I think the very very slick progressive self-employed type agents that have got their own websites got their own Instagram are already on it they're already there right so you're you're much more likely to find you know let's pick the Hortons or a TA UK or an EXP agent as an individual as the best agent in Ilesbury it won't be best do ease yeah it won't be Savile's it won't be Hampton's because they're they just got big national brand thing going on that that's what's coming down the tracks digital PR and social media despite the 39.7% of agents that don't think it's a tool important but do you know they're the things that could gotta be focused on do you not think with with the one my man's they've also got a similar challenge of there is only so much content they put out they can put out they don't have to put and that is often walking around the property is that gonna give is that gonna give them enough presence yeah yeah because they're not talking about the other aspects of agency yeah yeah good than what AI is gonna find is their website right so the way they need to link their social media to their website so they got this constant feed going on so you can see their social media feed on their website maybe some local press because Sam or John are a local expert in Huddersfield or wherever that then is a key for AI to say oh they look pretty credible so I don't think you've got to do it every week you could you just got to have a presence and if you are you know I don't know just a corporate branch or someone that is really not relying on social media at all but like the brand awareness piece that we've just done which shows that there are a number of people like the Spicer Hart group the Dexter's group and Warden Co which is Douglas Alan Spiro they have got almost no social media presence whatsoever yeah they are at a huge disadvantage because I suspect challenged me by all means in the comments I suspect that the people that run those businesses have been running them for 30 or 40 years and say but we do some leaflets and we've got some prominent offices we good no you're not look where we look where we've got without it you're fucked seriously and so I mean look I think and and for the big brands there's the challenge right because they have built everything on this moniker of their brand yeah Savals, Nifering, Dexter's, Foxtons and some have done a very good job and in many ways pioneers and titans of our industry not taking anything away you know I've said to people before and I'll say it again you know Foxtons when I when I first started in this industry Foxtons were everyone's arch enemy but someone told me something about six months into agency that completely changed my perspective I remember mining to an agent one day about you know about about how Foxtons were at that time because that was when they were hungry as hell under John Hunt and growing soon again now under God. Exactly yeah they have they have kind of returned to one of that I think agencies changed a lot in 20 years so yeah there's some success there but Foxtons are great at social media and they're great at marketing using their branches and their minis and so on they're back to using minis with Foxtons yeah so I'd be you know what else they're brilliant at Foxtons better than anybody data grabbing data going back 10 years 15 years 20s landals tenants buyers sellers and I was wrong but I'm not with this I'm not with this 12 years ago but I said six months six months into my career I'm having a conversation with a guy and I was like bloody Foxtons and he was like shut the fuck up Foxtons are the best thing that's happened to London market and I was like what the fuck are you talking about? What other agent do you know that walks in and quotes three percent for a sales fee yeah and I was like no one because they're not batshit and he was like and how good does three percent make your fee sound? How good are they though Foxtons that they're able to get three percent well this is the way they're just right on the basis of we'll get you the best price we'll get on there what's that? Well that was that stuff done so they're slogan back then was we go to war for our clients that was their mantra back then which again I was like in what fucking world do you need to go to war for a client but edgy aggressive there are plenty of people out there who had made their wealth in rather aggressive ways and totally embrace that aggressive approach to getting them the maximum for their asset. We all know that they pulled off some amazing results and managed to convey that that was what they always do. So going back I'm gonna ask you a question now going back to the question of disruption yeah do you think that the self-employed model and its rise I mean look at exp now 700 agents I think the agents in UK now merge with Chris Buckler's the agency got a hundred or so and so on do you think that is what we could characterize as the next big disruption in the estate and letting agency? I don't really class it as disruption I just think it's a different operating model they're not they're not very different from the individual's point of view maybe not from the customer's point of view. See this is that yeah from a customer's point of view I think what customers get from those is closer to what they expected from an agent in the first place better service I think so look I think you've talked about the more the agent has more at stake but also it's that continuous relationship right and we keep on talking about how property is a people business how people buy from people it's the thing that agents fucking cling to and I sometimes think over optimistically but if that is the case why the hell do we have businesses where someone talks to them on the phone another person goes to value it another person takes it on yeah another person does the viewings another person does the admin or the conveyance somebody else negotiates the offer in in what way is dealing with five six seven eight people in a transaction about the people it's not and so I think well that that's because those agencies are seeing it as a transaction not as a relationship yeah and and so what people get with with the with the more personal approach and it is a more personal approach is that is the person it's powered by exp or supported by TA UK or Hortons you know whatever model sits behind it but it is the person front and center you know and and I talked about doing something like this 10 15 years ago and we decided against it but we looked at it and we were like really it's the people like Anne is a fucking powerhouse like that woman is a listing machine if we get her in the door that woman's ability to build rapport and relationships with anybody of any age any sex orientation whatever masterclass you know and so you know we looked at this like 15 years ago and we were like the business bit is actually it's difficult but it's easy like fundamentally a transaction whether it's sales or letting the property management is a to z with whatever steps you need in between yeah and how you deliver that whether it's tech or people or whatever you're still fundamentally delivering the same thing but what drives your business is the people okay so so we looked at that temperature years ago and we were like surely we just keep basis a hub yeah and and we take on people and more full loss we you know we never we never kind of bit on the apple we look some other in it some other in that so but that that's the interesting shift then in terms of what I recall disruption is that the industry has gone from brands above the door being the attraction to now it's the individual that I think is the shift we are maybe we haven't seen it for flow yet but that's what we're seeing so it's no longer I'm calling in best to ease it's more I'm calling in Julie Jones who happens to work for ABC umbrella business that's the disruption and I think that's good for the industry and I think it's good for the consumer yeah I think I think what what I'd be interested to understand so like if we look at like the London letings market okay big market highly competitive a lot of foreign investment a lot of London property owned by just non Londoners you know people who used to live here or never lived here live elsewhere in the UK but they're not Londoners I am intrigued whether the person the person wins out letings is different those in those instance letings is more transactional than emotional sales is more emotional and protracted in six months yeah letings I think he's more transactional therefore the person to list for sure and as the super-ounce secret weapon yes but otherwise the rest of it is just yeah well there's loads of tenants management management yeah it's kind of you know that that's a little bit different I think you know getting the best price for my home and making sure my deal doesn't fall through as a purchase or a sale I think that that is something that sellers realize no is it when it's your home selling your home buying a home we know it's stressful that is the mechanism and the mechanism the process is shit right the process is shit as in it takes too long 35% of deals fall through I mean it's horrendous it's archaic it's still the same system that was invented by Henry the eighth for the dissolution of the monitors you know that mmm-hmm seriously that's how shit and archaic and bad conveyance is yeah and so therefore the people are really important in terms of trust credibility experience hand-holding because it's likely to be a rocky ride letting much less so I think yeah interesting interesting I mean with with buying convincing is also a lot of it driven by banks adversity to risk I mean we I know plenty of investors who've done cash deals and they've done them in 4872 hours you want to talk about convincing how shit is how many we can touch on it I'm not gonna wade through it because we closed our sales department five years ago burn on and I know a large part of the reason we closed it was because it was always a small part of our business and we we always intended to primarily be a letting's and property management focus business and because we never focus on the sales we never got it big enough to put structure and processes in place and you probably got to a point where it was 10% of your revenue but about 40% of the agro it was horrendous yeah it was horrendous and I and I had a series of absolute monsters yeah like we had we I was selling my brother-in-law's flat that went out that dragged on for six months and a week before exchange a contract the buyer pulled out yeah and then went through another six weeks so it's on probate it's horrendous and we know I think we did research actually as a PR firm for somebody and we think it cost nearly a billion pounds in wasted transaction costs every year based on that 35% of transactions falling through that that's the money that's wasted on survey fees valuation fees you know the lawyers that do charge a bit even if you fall through disbursements that you never get the money back from it's about a billion good and and not to mention the anguish the hardship you know you found the house of your dreams you go ahead you buy it you sold your property and three days before exchange some idiot down the chain pulls out because they did to Wednesday and it's raining and you lose the property you buy so so here's the thing when we talk about disruption if that is the thing with this podcast I mean I'm assuming now it is I think conveyance sin and conveyances are the thing that will be disrupted the most by technology in the next few years but it's part of it cost so I put a post up a week or two ago so we've just gone through selling my dad's home in Spain because we needed to for his care and that was fascinating obviously agent and solicitor sign it right so agents 5% plus IVa because what they call it out there it's VAT same rate so effectively 6% to sell a property so yeah not hard to do the mass 350,000 euro sale very tasty fee were the agents good no did they justify that what's that 24,000 euro call it call it a round figure of 20 grand absolutely not we interesting actually we got approached a lot of times by people going up we know agents charge this so we want to buy it off you direct less that fee because we were doing internationally we were like no we need a head I don't understand the Spanish legal system like no I you pay the price and that includes the fee and they do it but largely that we got the result done so we put five agents on that which I never would have normally done but my dad's lived there for years they were all different agencies that know my dad and wanted to help they were all actually very different profile of agency but we worked with literally the biggest agent on the island probably the most boot one of the most bougie agents on the island and then three independent three kind of more small team almost one man band independence and but yeah fundamentally marketing was poor communications were horrendous if we think like okay oh my god yeah and one of those agents sent me an automated email each month from the system that had my name spelled wrong and asked me if the house was still on the market well automated so we're saying that the standard of agency being poor is pretty much international honest so so yeah and honestly made even like the the most kind of middle road agent in the UK look phenomenal it made our good agent but does the transaction go through quicker and more certainly certainty well I don't think that's but I don't know that's driven by the agent right so Spain have this incredible system where you agree and offer within a week you sign a contract you pay 10% your bound and that goes strip that isn't held by the solicitor that goes straight into the vendors bank account so we agreed an offer we signed contracts within seven days three days later my dad had 35,000 euros in his bank no escrow no escrow because that is unconditional there is no legitimate reason my dad would ever need to give that money to buy us or not pulling out at that point I know so so we interestingly we actually had we had a really complex thing bubbling the background in that we had this lunatic who was trying to claim that the garden of my dad's house which we'd owned for 42 years was their land right mmm and to the point where they approached every single agent going you know you can't sell this and we were like dude take us to court or piss off and interestingly they got wind that we agreed a sale they somehow found out who the buyer was reached out to their lawyer in Barcelona and was like by the way Barcelona lawyer contacted our lawyer and went yeah we're probably gonna pull out and our lawyer just went yeah we're keeping the 35 grand so what happens if the seller pulls out the seller says you know I'm not selling anymore I've got 35 grand you can come get it so you have to give that back and there's usually a penalty of an equivalent amount what if you spent it they want to tell you then then you get locked up and really right so okay so that's it you have to give that back and and most of the contracts carry a clause that you have to pay them the same amount in compensation right okay serious yeah it did binds both parties I think regardless our system needs to improve and the thing is I mean this was amazing but but literally we were here the government we don't think a five-week completion date yeah and then there was a couple of complexities with that bank so they did come to us and say could we can we move it ten days I'm like yeah no problem but the government in the UK are not going to change the system they have other fister fry they have other things to ruin yeah so so no they are not going to change the convincing process and make things all bigger they're not going to introduce licensing we've got to stop waiting for the government to solve housing issues yeah so we need to be struck aren't going to solve no they're not so any housing issues they're not going to solve planning so lawyers not going to solve development need to think about the process and how bad it is and so what I get from conveyance is all the time is the year but no but excuse which is yeah but you don't understand us you know we have to do all this stuff well so the fascinating thing I was going to say with that was like so just quickly so we paid the agent to ship ton of money and I thought that was shit to value for money but we got the sale and ultimately that's what we wanted the solicitor now he was fucking incredible his fee was six grand which compared to English fees is I walked around ten times more than we would charge here worth every fucking penny he was incredible like every time those agents reached out also and so he's been in touch long detailed email like there were a couple of times when when I first learned to this I really was on his case I was like I need you to fucking set this out what are the Spanish statutes what you know standing he wrote all of that no it sounds like we need a bit of that but what I think we're agreeing that despite the fact that the the process here needs to be disrupted and you know it needs a kick it needs to be changed streamline whatever it's going to be up to the industry whether that's agents or conveyances to do that I don't see much sign of conveyances wanting to do that every time I talk to a conveyance they lament the process do you know we now have to do this do you know we now have to do that we're here do how much are in debonatie pro and no one gives a shit okay so he's not gives you the challenge to conveyances on the basis we just talked about about money I do think there are plenty of customers out there who appreciate that cost and value are two very different things yeah so conveyance about there whether you're willing to start a new business and take that risk maybe not but why don't you offer a black level service of your of your conveyance thing which is supercharged and people pay five times what they normally pay you but but you have guarantees in there you have time line service initial due diligence done within 10 working days yeah yeah you know you you put substantial benchmarks in place you put the resources behind it to deliver it yeah and you put that product in the marketplace and you go look you can pay our normal 1800 quid plus that fee or you know some of the or you can go to your you know conveyancing farm and pay them 600 quid or you can pay us 5 grand 6 grand plus that and this is what we deliver yeah I mean that I think is is fair in terms of as we talked about the beginning the cost of stuff value of stuff and obviously not disrupting on price all of the what I would call the conveyor belt conveyances like Reese Fisher Sands arc law they've all got bust because they were charging a hundred and I know quid plus disbursements you know I think technology particularly AI back to that that's what's going to disrupt conveyance is also one of the problems is also the bias that is no solution to the bank no solicitors are really thinking because solicitors are as backward if not more than agents so there aren't many conveyances and I'll again my challenge is is there a solicitor conveyance route there that is currently thinking yeah we're going to build an AI model to deal with inquiries replies to inquiries or to read documents and find problems in the soul that isn't going to happen because the legal industries even more okay than the estate agents in the oh I mean most of them still don't like digital contracts right well most of us are using post yeah dear says dear says it's one for you Ellie you love the dear says yes I bet well mate we have we are on a tighter schedule than time as usual so we have annoyingly run out of time because we could have kept talking a lot longer but some good stuff there I mean I think we've pretty much solved conveyance thing establish exactly what disruption is yep price led and probably got a few people got their fingers tingling about posting good good good post them in let's see what you people think so yeah I mean I'm fascinated here what what what anyone listen to this what you know what do you think about AI what do you how do you think that's going to impact our industry do you think agents need to wake up and get on board faster or you know is caution wise I'd love to read comments from people that really don't think that AI is going to have an effect on this industry because you're wrong but if there are people out there I mean look reach out to us maybe directly and independently so that we can maybe educate you a little hmm and I'd say look if if you find AI overwhelming look at how established products in the market are starting to leverage AI so fix flow and help me fix and their AI tool that they've built super cool super clever I mean we've just built quite a cool tool in the pository like a negotiation tool and we've got a new one launching the next few weeks around how proposals are prepared street the street group have a lot of AI plugged to their system look at greenhouse in pressing an SJ in their team and you've got to start asking yourself where value is I think this also I keep on banging on about this it's where business owners perceive where they get the value from their stuff and I think I think tech increasingly focuses an owner on that and I think it actually shows them that it is almost always in completely opposite places to where they think it is I think most business owners and I think this is the bigger the business I think the truer this is they think the value is in doing stuff yeah and it's not tech does stuff I think we'll show my criticism of prop tech I've said this many many times is that it's it's a solution trying to find a problem I think the difference now with AI is that it is truly innovative so it's not just something that does something it is something that is a proper utility that you know can provide solutions is mind-bending yeah it is absolutely mind-bending yeah there's there's some good AI newsletters out there I mean one I follow is called TLDR too long don't read that stands for they've got a myriad of channels you might want to subscribe to them all because I think I get about four emails a day from them because you can do founders business marketing security all this sort of stuff but just sign up to one you'll get a daily snapshot it just highlights kind of five things a day that have big things that have happened in the AI space and it is bonkers it will usually take you to a landing page or will show you a video or something of what this stuff is capable of and yeah it is it is mental it is the future buddy thanks for coming in pleasure always a pleasure to see you're paying good to chat name for the rosé by the river the other day and yeah looking forward to some lighthearted and comments on this one guys tune in next time thanks for coming bye