From Lettings to Legacy: Ben Moser on Social Impact & Leadership

🎙 Episode Title: Legacy, Leadership & Lettings: Ben Moser on Culture, Confidence & Social Change

In this episode of The Viking Chats, Kristjan Byfield sits down with Ben Moser—Director of Operations at Petermans Estate Agents, Managing Director of Petermans Housing Initiatives, and a Volunteer Mentor at Agents Together—for an open, vulnerable, and thought-provoking conversation that cuts right to the core of what the property industry should be about.

Ben’s journey is anything but typical. As the next generation in a family-run agency, he could have coasted. Instead, he chose to listen, learn and lead differently—shaping his own path with integrity, curiosity, and a powerful commitment to making housing better for everyone.

From transforming agency culture to tackling social housing and redefining what it means to be a modern dad in a demanding industry, Ben brings heart, humour and fresh thinking to every corner of the conversation.

🏡 From Family Business to Future-Facing Operator

Ben shares his story of entering the business without a clear plan—and how, by working from the ground up, he’s grown into a leadership role rooted in service and culture. His reflections on working within a legacy brand (with a legendary mum as MD!) offer valuable insight for anyone navigating generational succession or family business dynamics.

🤝 Culture Over Ego

Forget the old-school, hierarchical model of estate agency. Ben and Kristjan dive into why flat structures, psychological safety, and collaborative leadership aren’t just feel-good concepts—they’re essential for building resilient, effective teams that deliver consistently high-quality service to landlords, tenants and partners alike.

🧠 Gen Z Clients, Changing Expectations & Agent Evolution

Today’s buyers and renters expect more: transparency, ethics, responsiveness and empathy. Ben explains how he and his team have adapted to meet these expectations—without losing sight of commercial performance or efficiency.

The result? A values-led approach that earns long-term trust, not just short-term deals.

🏘 A Mission to Expand Social Housing

One of the most powerful themes of the episode is Ben’s work through Petermans Housing Initiatives—a personal and professional commitment to delivering more and better social housing through the infrastructure of the private sector.

Ben talks openly about:

• Why housing access should be treated as a fundamental right
• The operational and political barriers to progress
• How letting agents can (and should) be part of the solution

👨‍👧 Fatherhood, Pressure & Identity in Business

In a beautifully honest segment, Ben and Kristjan reflect on the reality of being modern dads—juggling leadership, ambition, purpose and parenting. It’s a topic rarely explored in property circles, but one that’s deeply relevant for the next generation of agency owners and directors.

💡 Why This Episode Matters

Whether you're a landlord, investor, BTR/PBSA operator or letting agency leader, Ben’s journey and mindset offer lessons for us all:

• Leadership isn’t about title—it’s about culture
• Profit and purpose can co-exist
• The best agents of tomorrow will be the ones who lead with empathy today

Transcript

Kristjan Byfield: Hey, Ben.
Ben Moser: Christian.
Kristjan Byfield: How you doing, buddy?
Ben Moser: Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. Very good. How are you?
Kristjan Byfield: Yes. Goo. Good. I had the absolute joy of chatting with your mom yesterday.
Ben Moser: She's mentioned. Yes. How did it go?
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, great fun. We didn't cover, I think, any of the subjects we initially intended to. So, we went off on a random tangent because obviously your mom worked in advertising, which my dad did as well.
Ben Moser: Sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, so that stole a bit the spotlight. And then yeah, we talked about kind of the the the dynamics and challenges of running like a family business and what it was like for her coming up as a as a woman within the business as well. And yeah, it was good fun.
Ben Moser: Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: It's good fun. How are things with you?
Ben Moser: Yeah. Good.
 
 

00:01:30

 
Ben Moser: It's been a busy a busy time um both in and out of work with the arrival of a second child. Uh just shy of two months ago. So, it's been a fun time. Yeah, it's sleep four and a four nearly four and a half.
Kristjan Byfield: How old was your oldest? How old was your How's the old one? Three.
Ben Moser: He's starting school in two and a half weeks. So, um that's scary in itself. Yeah, it's uh it's a crazy time right now.
Kristjan Byfield: Scary about that. It's great when they start going to school.
Ben Moser: It's weird.
Kristjan Byfield: Gives you guys routine to your day at long last.
Ben Moser: Yeah. It's weird though because it's like and maybe it's talking about it parenting and working in in this industry. It's just crazy because it's such an enveloping industry. You get so caught up in it and then to add into that trying to make the most of your time with your kids. Um it's just tough, man.
 
 

00:02:32

 
Ben Moser: It's it's really No, no.
Kristjan Byfield: What does your partner do? Is she a Is she a stay-at-home mom or does she work or Oh, okay.
Ben Moser: She's she's um a dietitian for the NHS. She works up um at at Guys Hospital. Um she's obviously she's on Matt leave. Um but no, she works. Um although I don't know how much she's going to want to work after she's finished this time around, but the NHS, as you will know, I'm sure, don't renumerate the quality of the work you do, to be honest.
Kristjan Byfield: No, no,
Ben Moser: So yeah, I don't know. We'll see. She's very good at her job and I think she should be paid a lot more than she is. So, um yeah, but it's just it's been a crazy it's been an interesting time and trying to um navigate where things are with work on top of that has been interesting. But that's probably the same for anyone who's got kids and and working. So, as you all know, you'll know yourself.
 
 

00:03:24

 
Kristjan Byfield: I think Uh, look, I think I think for uh I mean I'm going to generalize it because it's probably true. I think for a lot of men, I don't actually think that consideration is that strong. I think for a lot of men, yeah, I don't know.
Ben Moser: Good thing.
Kristjan Byfield: I think talking to a lot of my mates, there's still quite a lot of that old like, you know, go and do the job, kind of go and get the work done, get the bills paid. Um, you know, I mean, they're more hands-on than probably their dads were.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I still think there's quite a lot of dads out there. I mean, I've still got quite a lot of mates who, you know, you talk about them and, you know, and you have a laugh about it, but they're often talking about, you know, how they'll make up meetings at work so they so they don't have to get back to do bedtime or, you know, whatever. And I'm just a bit like, really?
Ben Moser: It's all on the second
 
 

00:04:18

 
Kristjan Byfield: And there's quite there's quite a lot of guys that are still like I think particularly when you've got young kids. I think like once your kids get to like 8 n 10 plus and then they kind of become little mini adults. I think a lot of guys find it easier to interact with their kids from that point on and then I think you get a lot more buy in. But I think for a lot of guys, particularly with babies and young children, um I think a lot of them, they feel like a bit of a spare wheel. They don't really know what to do and they find it really hard to engage with a kid that they can't have like an adult conversation with and they can't reason with.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So I think a lot of guys just kind of bury themselves in work a little bit um or very happy very happy to return to work. So,
Ben Moser: I miss that though. Like I I get it. You and I completely agree with you.
 
 

00:05:12

 
Ben Moser: I reckon there are a whole a whole host of of guys that are like that. But I just it's like it's such an early development. So like I I feel like anyway, and it sounds like you're on a similar vein to me that it's like that's you won't get that time again. And yeah, they there's no logic. I mean, there's no logic to anything children do really, but you kind of help.
Kristjan Byfield: that's it, right?
Ben Moser: Yeah. Exactly. And if you Yeah. I I'm not a judgmental parent in any way.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, no.
Ben Moser: Um you know, you do you do what you do, right?
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, look, there's no question like if you don't if you can't engage with your kid, don't force yourself and be some really frustrated, angry, and parent.
Ben Moser: exactly.
Kristjan Byfield: You know, better that you're not there and let the other one get on with it if they are.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but yeah, I think it's um I I read something early doors.
 
 

00:06:00

 
Kristjan Byfield: I can't remember whether I read it just before Haley had LV because we we've got two as well. Similar age gap.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So El's uh Arlo's about to turn four. He'll turn four uh next month and then Elby turned eight in December.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So very similar age gap to you guys, which is a little bit further down the road.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but I remember, like I said, I can't remember if I read it before Elb was born or or kind of when she was she was very young, but I read this article which really kind of crystallized parenthood for me and and it I it felt very relevant because it was basically this entrepreneur who had been really successful, built a really successful business, exited, made loads of money. Um, and a large one of, you know, one of his main drivers, as you often hear, is, "Oh, I want to provide the most amazing life for my kids. I want an amazing house for us to live in and us to go on, you know, amazing holidays each year together and blah blah blah." So
 
 

00:06:59

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: in typical kind of heads down entrepreneurial form had basically been a workaholic for the first 15 years of his kids' lives had achieved this phenomenal success had basically sold his business exited for you know whatever 20 30 million happy days and and basically turned around to his kids was like right kids what should we do and they were like they were basically like in his words they were basically like sorry who the f*** are We're 15,
Ben Moser: Yeah, that's really sad. But
Kristjan Byfield: 16, Dad. We've we're basically never had a relationship with you and we're at an age now where we just want to go and hang out with our mates and go on holiday with our mates and go to festivals and actually not interested in spending time with you. Um, and he was like, you know, and and and then he it was interesting because he kind of had that shocking revelation and then, you know, and then he ended up doing quite a lot of research into it and he was like, you know, the first 10 years of your kids' lives, he was like, you are, as parents, you're the epicenter of their lives.
 
 

00:08:05

 
Kristjan Byfield: Like, they rely on you for everything.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and it's like you don't get that back, you know, and if you don't if you don't build your relationships in that time, you won't have a relationship when your kids are older as he experienced, you know, and
Ben Moser: Nope. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: and yeah, you know, heartbreaking story from him, but it really as an entrepreneur, it really framed it for me because it was like, okay, what's important? And the material things aren't really important. Um, you know, again, I think you and I are quite alike. Like, yes, I want us to be secure, but I don't aspire to have a footballer's mansion and five Aston Martins on the driveway. I can't think of anything that would make me feel more sick. Um, yeah, but, you know, fundamentally, I want to, you know, a comfortable house and not have to worry about bills, you know, and, you know, kids set for life, whatever, blah blah blah.
Ben Moser: Maybe just one. Maybe one.
 
 

00:08:51

 
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: outside of that like it's the journey not not not the reward but yeah it just kind of framed it for me and then I I read another like really short thing and again I do this a lot and
Ben Moser: Yeah. Absolutely.
Kristjan Byfield: it's it's shocking how much it pulls it into focus. Uh it was this guy who was like whenever you're talking about your kid's age just phrase it in terms of how clo how far they are to getting to 21. When Elby turned seven, you know, we were like,
Ben Moser: That's a good God.
Kristjan Byfield: "Yay, she's seven." And I turned to Haley and I was like, "You realize she's a third of the way to 21?" And Haley went, "f*** off." And I went, "But she is. That's
Ben Moser: It's just M. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: seven years has gone like that." I'm like, "That is a third of her becoming an adult."
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I'm like, "That's a third of our time at best that we will get with her over the next 21 years."
 
 

00:09:54

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And it again it just it reframes everything. It just reminds you how precious that time is.
Ben Moser: And even when they're being Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And you was like a I do the school run every morning. I love it. I school run. We walk. You know I love doing the walk to school every morning.
Ben Moser: Nice.
Kristjan Byfield: Um and you know I probably miss I don't know five or six of them a year.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Otherwise, I do them religiously because it's a really lovely bit of time. And about six months ago, he was like, "Oh, you've got a lot of work on. Why
Ben Moser: Yeah, same.
Kristjan Byfield: don't I start doing the school run and you go into the office an hour earlier?" And I was like, "Get to f***." I was like, "Absolutely not." I was like, "There's no way I'm giving that up for an extra five hours in the office." I was like, "Okay."
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
 
 

00:10:46

 
Kristjan Byfield: But I was like, "No way." So, um, we should we we've had we we I'm very conscious of the fact that much like me and your mom, we're waffling away, having a lovely chat. We do need to turn this into a podcast at some point. Um, so I'll start recording soon. As I said to your mom, very happy for it to be conversational. We don't necessarily need to have any set agenda.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, is there anything you would like us to touch on? I mean, I think actually, you know, part of the conversation we've just been having, I think is quite a healthy conversation to have.
Ben Moser: Yeah, me too. Definitely.
Kristjan Byfield: So, you know, dadding and parenting and juggling that with work and and how you prioritize. So, I definitely think we can carry this conversation on.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, do you want to talk about I think obviously we want to talk about the the you know the social side projects that that you're running.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
 
 

00:11:38

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: How update because we haven't spoken in ages. Where are you at with that? Where have you kind of got to with that?
Ben Moser: Yeah. So, where we're at at the moment is it's kind of, as you'll know probably better than most about setting up things from scratch. It's taken many iterations over the year and a bit that we've started. Um, we've been we've done single housings. We've had renewals um of of certain members who have who have come in. certain tenants have have renewed for a second year which obviously proves the success of the model within the PRS which is great and obviously we're managing them as well. Um we're at a point now where we're we've been we had been given funding to develop because my the way I see this progressing is that the way to impact change is to create stock not continually look to
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: source within And that can be with many different and because of the way that we're doing what we do it gives us a bit of creativity with how we can do that.
 
 

00:12:35

 
Kristjan Byfield: Build it margin. Yeah.
Ben Moser: So obviously you know with the government directive on the the number of new homes which is completely illogical and it's never going to happen as we all know. um you know there's a development angle which we've been given funding for dep depending on what project we can present um and if the tender process is successful which we've had a couple that we're going to go through and then I've pulled them because the conditions have changed which is a pain in the ass but whatever. Um I'm going through a different round of funding for a slightly different approach which would be more repurposing existing stock. So whether that be um existing development where the S106 funding has created social housing stock that can't be used whether that's because the local authorities have set quite a niche housing criteria. So for examp there'll be developers who have got empty units because they can't fill them because the margins don't stack up because for example a local authority will say oh you can only fill it with I don't know key workers right which sounds great in theory but if the numbers don't work for that developer so that's like it's not distressed because it's not I mean they'll just repurpose it and turn it into private but that's the problem either they're going to repurpose it and put it back into straight private and that will just go to market and that then means social housing tenants are losing opportunities to move into readily read readily available stuff.
 
 

00:14:20

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: So where we fit into that and why that funding round I'm trying we're pushing for at the moment is because we manage it. We work with groups that house with the local authority. So the risk element of tenency sustainment has been put onto the the providers.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: So they then provide the tenants to me which at this point would be then we go to landlord. Landlord then gives us property. Tenant goes in doing it this way around. They're giving it to the landlord regardless because that's us. develop a landlord depending on who's involved in the transaction. Obviously is further down the line. But we then will have the readily the stock ready and they give them to us and they go in whether it's via these developments, whether we look at repurposing existing stock, you know, buying portfolio purchase. It's it's it's a fitforpurpose model and it's quite dynamic, but it's based on the experience we have from the agency and management. as but also from obviously my experience in in dealing in that social housing space and all the people that we've brought in to make that offering work.
 
 

00:15:33

 
Ben Moser: So you know people that provide deposit alternatives um you know rent guarantees um if needs being there's a land on that situation there's recovery there's grant recovery for massive aras claims like it's it's all the problems that landlords have and we've packaged that into a service for them and for us and obviously the development angle which is where we're at now is we've used that experience to go to investors and say, "We know how this all works. We can just have the stock and make it all work." And because of the groups we work with, the rent, the difference between the LHA and social rent issues, we have ways to make that work. Basically, Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: and and what apart from kind of just sharing what you guys are up to and you know that's always part of the story. What what would be your ideal outcome from people hearing about this? like do you want you know someone with land like reaching out being like oh my god I've been wondering what to do with it and this sounds right up
 
 

00:16:42

 
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that'd be fantastic. Anyone who's got, you know, commercial commercial premises land, that'd be fantastic because obviously it gives us a way to start a conversation about what we can do with the stock they can't get rid of. Um, I think it's also about trying to get the message out that the private sector and we are providing a way for the private sector to change the narrative because you can have Ben Beedle who's doing a great
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: job of showing people that landlords aren't what Karma and Angela Raina are saying they are, but they keep saying it. maybe not as directly as they were, but the fact is is that he can't be the only person who's putting something out there for landlords.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: You got people like you who are doing an amazing job of getting messaging out there. I love what you're doing with the bill, the bill breakdown stuff between you and Suzanne Smith. like you two both do such a good job of framing the information in a way that's relatable because it just takes the bias out of the conversation and that's the problem.
 
 

00:17:49

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: Um, and I think what I want to try and show is that, you know, we've created something within this framework that's using all of the good things about the private sector rental process and have repurposed it to make
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: it work for social housing tenants. and that it's an offering that can work for everybody and can be done by everybody. You just have to engage and collaborate. And I think that that's the biggest thing. That's the easiest thing for me is that there's so many people who can make a difference in this space without having to do a huge amount. You just have to open up your mind to the possibility that single parent families can be viable tenants or people who have Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, you guys are focusing on London, but potentially there's also scope for you to kind of partner up with other agents around the country who are on board with a similar objective of kind of delivering some sort of social benefit.
Ben Moser: Absolutely. I've had a conversation last week with someone up in Liverpool.
 
 

00:18:57

 
Ben Moser: He's trying to become an RP, which I'm like, are you insane? But sure. Um, a registered provider.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, okay.
Ben Moser: So, he's trying to, and his story is amazing. He's he is a social housing tenant himself, but he's using that experience to then go to get funding to be a registered provider so that he can then start doing the service to come. There's so many amazing stories of people out there doing this sort of work. You know, there was another another um guy I met with just over from LinkedIn and they're doing an amazing initiative where they're going from the work space. So they're they're going to well they're working in Cudden, which you know, good luck to them working in Cuden, but they um they're going to schools. They're they're they're helping to work on the the workplacement side of things as a way to start the process of then going into supported accommodation before they're going into housing. And they're doing that as a plan with Cuden Council.
Kristjan Byfield: Right.
Ben Moser: And it's just there's I think there's just creative solutions to bring everyone together.
 
 

00:19:58

 
Kristjan Byfield: Nice.
Ben Moser: And I think it's important people can see that that can work, make people money, and be secure at the same time because I don't think people really think that that's the case.
Kristjan Byfield: No, no. Cool. Right. Okay. That's got a good throw. So, I mean, really, I think we'll just do it in two halves. So, uh we'll get started in a sec.
Ben Moser: Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, I'll do a very light intro and then then um give you the opportunity to kind of introduce yourself a bit more, just give a bit of background.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and then I think we'll we'll move into talking about the housing side first of things because that's kind of what people have been more expecting.
Ben Moser: Okay.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and then we'll kind of pivot the conversation over to uh, you know, we're talking about parenting, dadding. Um, if it goes there, if it doesn't go there, like I said, we'll kind of go with the flow.
Ben Moser: Yeah, that's great.
 
 

00:20:49

 
Kristjan Byfield: We like I said with your mommy yesterday we were gonna talk about two things. One of which was AI and then we didn't touch on it till like the last like two and then tried to end the conversation whilst also trying to touch on it which was hilarious.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: Um so yeah but we'll just fast or loose we go where it goes. Um, if and if if for any reason, Ben, if you say anything you don't mean to or you you don't wish out in the space, just just pause and just go, "Actually, guys, can we just cut that bit
Ben Moser: You're very easy to talk to, so that sounds fine.
Kristjan Byfield: and just take a beat and start again?" I don't think we've had to do that once, but if we do, you know, you never know exactly if something falls out your mouth and you think, "Oh, yeah, as swear as you your mom dropped an Fbomb about 10
Ben Moser: You never know. Oh s***. Yeah. Oh, how swary can you get on it by the way?
 
 

00:21:39

 
Ben Moser: Fantastic. Good. Okay, cool. Good.
Kristjan Byfield: minutes into our was like, "Oh my god, I'm sorry." And I was like, "It's absolutely fine. You're in the same." So,
Ben Moser: Fantastic. Oh, I won't be little.
Kristjan Byfield: we'll just content. I I always have to try and remember for each one because on my podcast publishing tool you have to tick explicit content and I'm like did I swear with this guest?
Ben Moser: I hope that's all it was.
Kristjan Byfield: Probably. Probably. Right. Let's get this going. Let's start recording and we'll get going. Right. Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking podcast and I am delighted to be joined today by none other than Mr. Ben Mosa. Ben, how you doing bud?
Ben Moser: Hey, morning. Yeah, I'm great. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Very excited.
Kristjan Byfield: Absolute pleasure. We've obviously been waffling away premic yet again a 20 minute pre-pod conversation which was absolutely adorable.
 
 

00:22:47

 
Kristjan Byfield: So, for those who don't know, Ben is part of the Peterman Dynasty. I think I think I think we can use that tagline. Uh was chatting with your mom yesterday. Um but yeah, Peterman's down in uh Turnill and you've got another office.
Ben Moser: Ed.
Kristjan Byfield: That's right. Um so yeah, you and been going kind of 60 plus years. started by your dad and your uh started by your grandfather and great uncle.
Ben Moser: Yep. Correct. And then mom and cousin uh then took it over from them. And then I joined the company directorship uh seven and a half years ago.
Kristjan Byfield: So you were in the business before then or Yeah.
Ben Moser: Yep. Yeah, that's right. So I I started from from right at the bottom. Um uh I actually actually started when I was at school um just doing Saturday work. Then obviously went off to university. Then like most people unless you're very focused were like I don't know what to do for a job.
 
 

00:23:53

 
Ben Moser: So I was like what do I know? I know property. So went and did some work up in North London for a while. Then came back with some ideas and then went from from negotiator then valuing then both. Then from there we opened our own another office in Dullage which we had for a good a good amount of time. Um and yeah, from there obviously went up into kind of part of the uh the leadership team as it is. Um and been there since
Kristjan Byfield: Cool. And then so you know and and then let's talk about your kind of more recent journey. So obviously you know done the whole family thing. What what was that like coming up through a family business? I mean I find I think by the sound of it you were brought up the right way. I think the family businesses I hear that that tend to do really well, you know, they don't do the the special ladder, you know, you come in at the bottom, you learn the ropes from the ground up, you start like any other junior employee, and you work your way through and you kind of learn your craft, hone your craft.
 
 

00:25:00

 
Ben Moser: 100%. Yeah. Um I would say if anything it was harder for me. Um I had a num well because I had a number of chances at different points in my career to go um to to corporates um to other independents um which I did do to begin with and then I
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: think I just thought there's a real niche that we have here that combined with some of my own experiences would would really make a difference. But yeah, there's been a real focus for me on making it abundantly clear that I've earned my place here um over that time because yeah, the perception is obviously as you say that there's sort of special ladder as
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: such and there definitely is not. Um if if I didn't deserve to be here like anybody else, I wouldn't be 100%. Um, I definitely on myself um the family the the the business as it is is obviously we we as a
Kristjan Byfield: And did you feel like that pressure to prove yourself, was that kind of something that you felt came from working for your family or was that a pressure you kind of felt like you put on yourself?
 
 

00:26:11

 
Ben Moser: company are quite forgiving I would say as an independent familyrun business we we like to believe that pushing the positivity to staff um gets the positivity back.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: Um but obviously from the family side of things, yeah, you know, there's always going to be an extra element of pressure because the business has been going as long as it has. It's obviously for me the third generation of it. Um and obviously my my experiences and my ideas are very different to, you know, my my amazing grandfather's um who is as as big a hero of mine as as there can be. Um, we have very different ideas. Uh, I have different ideas to Howard and to and to my mom, but we also are able to share those ideas, but also if they're not good in anyone's cases, it's a lot easier for someone to say, you know, that's complete s*** or but not quite as um as bluntly as um it depends what you're doing.
Kristjan Byfield: quite that brutal. It really is.
Ben Moser: Oh yeah, unless it's absolute garbage and then just like you know what the hell are you doing?
 
 

00:27:17

 
Ben Moser: Um but no there's I always put pressure on myself. I always have done. Um and that's that's a personal thing. But it does help to drive you know new ideas for the business, new partnership opportunities with different different sort of um providers, different options out there in the market. I mean as you all know with the amazing work you do um there are opportunities for agency all over the place, right? And it's just finding the ones that work best and seeing if they'll stick.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, obviously um I know what we're about to talk about. Um, for those who who who don't know uh Ben and kind of what his his core objectives are, I think before we before we get into the detail of it, I think there is a growing I think there's a growing voice within our industry um maybe not to what am I trying to say here? Um to create a more beneficial PRS I think is for for a simplistic phrasing.
 
 

00:28:26

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, you know, I think there's a lot of there's a there's a growing part of our industry thankfully that has got away from that mindset of it's just a deal and it's it's not about the property, it's not about the people, it's just about doing the deals and bringing the the bucks. And I think particularly in letings um I think that was historically a problem and is for a lot of agents. Um you know they are just largely seen as transactions. Um and but I think there is you know there is a growing change with that and whether that is companies like ours like base like Paramount location swindon home finders you you know I can I can list hundreds of quality letting agents up and down the country who have for one of a better phrase woken up to the fact that it is uh an entire ecosystem system, you know, and you have your landlords and your tenants and and favoring either one of those um is is at at at least a danger to your business and and if not, you know, a bit of a social injustice to a certain extent.
 
 

00:29:44

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but I think it's really lovely to see a growing plethora of our industry genuinely delivering um or or wanting to deliver a great rental experience to both sides of the coin, the landlord and the tenant or the
Ben Moser: Yeah. Heat.
Kristjan Byfield: owner and the residents. We prefer to to refer to them as base. Um, but I think also obviously there are those looking to take that a bit further. you know, we've uh seen agencies, well, I mean, I think probably the biggest example of that is probably Andrews, the Andrews Property Group. Um, for those who are not fully offay with that, it is, I believe, the only estate agency in the UK UK entirely owned by a charitable trust.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, uh, and I personally feel they don't shout anywhere near enough about their unique structure and what they what they do. uh they generate a phenomenal amount of money for good causes for the very nature that they are owned and operated by a charitable trust. They are not there for profit or they are there for profit but for the purpose of using that profit for charitable causes and for good.
 
 

00:30:53

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um and the amount of money that they generate through that is is quite eyeing. Uh and it makes organizations several times their size um uh fail in comparison quite frankly. Um, and then you know, we've got we've got some other ones.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I've I the names are going to escape me now, but I know there's there's one that started up in Scotland, which I think is Oh, there you I was going to say I was going to say I think
Ben Moser: There's good good place Letings.
Kristjan Byfield: it's good good places but um yeah
Ben Moser: Well, Good Place Letings is the um is the is an agency branch they've set up in London. Um I think it might be called Moving Places up in Scotland. So, they're actually a development branch up there. Um yeah, they've done some amazing work. I'm actually going to be meeting with with another Ben uh from Goodplace Letings uh in about 3 weeks time because we think there's some potentially some work we might be able to do together and just to chat about our business experience in that space.
 
 

00:31:53

 
Ben Moser: So, there are some really cool options there.
Kristjan Byfield: And this is really exciting, right? Because these these meetings, agents, meeting with agents for opportunities is nothing particularly new. But I think they were fundamentally driven by financial opportunity. And I think what's really exciting now is you're starting to see more and more of these things happening where they want to deliver a great service, but actually the end goal is a bit more altruistic, whether that's to do with local community or whatever. So, you know, on that, you know, let's let's kind of peel peel back the layers a little bit.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Let let's talk a little bit more in detail in specifics, Ben, about about what your project has been kind of the last few years and what you're really passionate about because obviously you know you could have followed the
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: tried andrusted tried andrusted kind of business model that you know Peter has run on for the last sort of 60 70 years fairly traditional family agency expanding as it does over time.
 
 

00:32:53

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but you know, you made a decision. How long ago is it now? About Yeah.
Ben Moser: about year and a half. It's been there or thereabouts. Yeah, year a year and a half or so. Um it for me actually funnily enough it came it's we we've done work with the so I'll step back before I so what we are wind it back what we what we do is we create solutions to the problems that there are in social housing and private rental crossover.
Kristjan Byfield: So let's crystallize that down a bit more.
Ben Moser: So yeah, it's a good question.
Kristjan Byfield: So So what are the problems that you saw that basically made you go, do you know what? I I think we can try and help find some sort of solution here. What what are you talking about?
Ben Moser: So, I've always seen it as um the fact that the PRS is such a is such a huge beast and it is very diverse in how it's delivering its service and obviously the quality of that, you know, and the thoroughess of that is is is so varied.
 
 

00:34:02

 
Ben Moser: Um I've always felt there's space to do more. Um and that is obviously quite varied in itself. But I'd toyed with the idea because I actually did a bit of work with um a a company whose initial sort of work was housing social housing tenants into private rental properties. They came they came to me and just said, "Look, we've got we've got some some tenants who are or they call them members who are looking to be placed in private rental." Um they gave me a good breakdown of how the service worked um and said you know most agents won't talk to us you know um so they they actually we we did one deal with them as a trial run um you know they passed industry references um they had a guarantor um and it all went really well. So they then asked me to come and give a talk to them and they're a big company. Um they're called Beam. They're a big company.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
 
 

00:35:04

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: So Beam have been quite a big part of my journey into this space. Um I gave a talk to their house hunting team as it was back then about the PRS and about you know how they can tailor what they do to make it work to get more landlords on board. And by that point, I'd done months of research into ag um for homelessness and housing and um housing security, you know, stuff like dampener mold. And we'd had the first sort of rumblings of a subject you know very well about the renters's rights bill. Um yeah. Does anyone know what that is? I mean, at this point, do we even know where Yeah. something something? Um, and what right?
Kristjan Byfield: I'm looking forward to meeting a tenant yet who knows what's coming down the line, but but later I don't want to derail your your your socialation.
Ben Moser: Oh, good luck. I'm not sure most government well the renters's rights bill has a big part to play in my in my journey to be honest with you because um what I had come to realize is that there was quite clearly a way that the private rental sector and the social housing space can work as long as there are enough voices that are all listening to each other and working together.
 
 

00:36:18

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: Um, landlords have got or have had the the old adage of social housing from 20, 30 years ago. I'm not going to say that's wrong because the system has changed over time and unfortunately in some ways it still hasn't.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: But in the ways it has done, there is a way with which we can present social housing tenants in a secure pathway for landlords. um that means they can be put in the same conversation as private rental tenants. Um it's about using the right connections.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: It's putting together all the the issues that landlords rightfully have got, you know, tenure, the the state of the property, the price, and figuring out ways to offset those risk elements in a way that provides a service that
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: gets th the ridiculously high number of of households on the waiting list for local authorities down. Brings down the the shockingly high spend on temporary accommodation, which to be honest is is probably one of the biggest problems in the housing sector.
Kristjan Byfield: This focus Well, I think we
 
 

00:37:25

 
Ben Moser: There is there is so much property that can be used for this space that does not come to the detriment of the tenant or the landlord. And you you put this really well in our chat before we started. That is the key is having stakeholders in this conversation working together, not against each other. Um and that's been my whole reason for doing
Kristjan Byfield: get away from this and us rhetoric, haven't we? I think it's that is like I said, I think I think our industry is evolving. Our industry generally or at least kind of the the better third um are definitely evolving to a more kind of harmonious conversation and and understand the value that everyone delivers.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: But I think generally and particularly outside our sect I mean as we know there is a horrendous um rhetoric around landlords and it 10 15 20 years really now but I think particularly kind of last five t years
Ben Moser: Oh, it's insane. It's insane.
Kristjan Byfield: I think with since covid and the cost of living crisis and everything else you know everything seems to be dialed up to 11 um at the moment and um Yeah, there's a lot of there's a there's a lot
 
 

00:38:32

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: of angry rhetoric I would say and and far more I think coming from the tenant resident side aimed at landlords. There's a lot of really really unjustified um rhetoric there and I think often with often driven by parties with with not as transparent motives as they might like people to believe.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Absolutely.
Kristjan Byfield: Um we'll we'll we'll dive into that too much more.
Ben Moser: Oh, I completely agree.
Kristjan Byfield: But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I've I've I've shouted as often as I can um when, you know, when we see this, whether it's aimed at landlords in general or our industry or both. Um but I think I think there's something really interesting as well. There's this um there's a very interesting kind of language and conversation around basically landlords and monetizing you know accommodation that you don't see in the same way in any other field. Right? So if we if we look at the fact that we all need a roof over our head it's it's a core thing that everybody needs.
 
 

00:39:51

 
Kristjan Byfield: Absolutely great. Um the vast majority of landlords provide that provide that to a reasonable to good standard, provide an okay, you know, support service, um and charge a relatively reasonable rent in line with market conditions. Um the perception of what landlords are and how much money they make out of landlording I think is is is often excuse with the with the real life uh understanding of but I think also when you look at
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: so so right housing is an essential thing you know then we look at utilities right let's look at utilities people have been angry with the way utilities have costs have spiraled the last few years But I don't feel
Ben Moser: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: you see anywhere near the same viciferous kind of uh and and rather nasty dialogue around that in the same way that you do see about landlords. You know, supermarkets, we all need food to eat. We all need to have things to drink, you know, although somehow it's fine for sainsburries to make a billion pound a year profit on that.
Ben Moser: Yeah, we have the the the landlord thing is because it's personal.
 
 

00:41:08

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um and cut a huge amount of their team for cost cutting and profit driving things which which they're very quickly forgiven for.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: But there isn't that same dialogue out of profiteering out of people needing to to eat. But there is this dialogue about greedy profitering landlords, you know, rinsing the public in
Ben Moser: It's because it's um it's an easy win. It's an easy win. It's easy for for bait headlines. is easy because the perception of the landlord is it's very capitalist. It's very right. It's very um it's it's a bit like the um the kind of TUDA sort of baronss and land owners that they hold the power over the heads of everybody and it it's it's nuts.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. the language and the terminology which is why you know a lot of us try and move away from you know we were massively inspired by the likes of of of Paramount Properties you know looking at the language we use and you know landlord tenant like you said that does literally hark back to Judah times and your landlord um you know and I think it does yeah it does hark back to a lot of that but I
 
 

00:42:13

 
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: think I think something else that's also really interesting is I think there's also there is an element of of jealousy or envy that sits beneath all of this because I think the interesting thing is you know you use examples I used before of supermarkets of utility suppliers big corporate entities now I think we all know ultimately there aren't too many big corporate entities out there that are primarily driven by the great they deliver socially to their
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: tend to have rather focused uh attention on profit and returns and dividends and growth.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um and and typically pretty much everything else comes quite a distant second place to those those primary objectives.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: But um but then when you look at landlords, you know, as you and I both know, there's roughly, you know, rounding off figures, 4 millionish PRS homes, 2 millionish PRS landlords, two properties a landlord. And and you and I both know there are portfolio landlords in there. So for every landlord with 30 properties, you've got 30 landlords with one property.
 
 

00:43:37

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and so I find it fascinating that the attitude towards a huge corporate entity that is focused almost exclusively on profit and and not much else gets in the way of that is kind of given that Yeah, but they're all right. Um, and then your individual landlords where that property is going to be their pension.
Ben Moser: Easy. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: It's going to be their retirement fund because Jesus Christ, I mean, you know, there's a very real possibility that people from our generation won't have a government pension by the time you retire.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And that that I mean, that's scary as s*** to talk about. But if if that kind of support system goes away, you know, we will hark back to the days where people got to have a property that they could leverage at retirement age fund their way, you know, through the
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: later stages of life. Um, but it's it's really interesting the dialogue around it. Like I say, you you would expect this what I always find fascinating about human psychology.
 
 

00:44:39

 
Kristjan Byfield: You would expect the rhetoric to be the opposite. very nasty corporates. Hey, they're just people, you know, trying to do the best they can and and set themselves up without being overly egregious. But the opposite.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. I just I find it fascinating.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I find it fascinating.
Ben Moser: Yeah. And I think that that that's why um that's essentially why in a way why we are doing what we're doing.
Kristjan Byfield: So,
Ben Moser: Um and it's why it's moved on to you know going through this sort of funding and investment pathway to start getting us being able to develop our own stock because whilst we can do this and reach landlords you know we do we get inquiries through open rent um you know we do get the inquiries coming through to to house within the way that we do. Um I think the way you've put it is exactly the problem. Um so for me the easiest way that I believe we can show that the industry can directly affect in a quicker way is to start finding ways to create supply.
 
 

00:45:45

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: Um and as you again as you and I spoke about before we started the I'm not sure the government's plan has uh been especially well thought out. Um and the I'm being diplomatic because I have no idea who will be listening to this. I've done talks to local authorities, uh been to the crisis homelessness summit where the now ousted housing minister spoke very positively about the government's plans and we all know what happened to her and for whatever reasons that happened. um we are in a unique position to be able to understand what is required on both sides on on all sides because we've placed ourselves in the middle of the conversation so that the rhetoric out there is about
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: collaborative work rather than as you say it's their fault is I could easily sit here and tell you you know one charity that likes to put headlines out there against landlords can't imagine who that is um and Not
Kristjan Byfield: Imagine a Crisis are fantastic.
Ben Moser: Crisis, by the way. Um, I love Crisis.
 
 

00:46:49

 
Kristjan Byfield: I love crisis.
Ben Moser: I love them.
Kristjan Byfield: Love crisis. And perfect example, quick like sideb break here. Perfect example about how you can have a passionate objective that appears in contrast to how the marketplace works. But you understand the fact that a solution is only going to be reached by collaborating, by talking, by having those difficult conversations to understand why this isn't assimilating better, why we're not finding problems better, and actually sitting down
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: at the same table. Um, I absolutely adore crisis.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and and yes, in stark contrast to two other very outspoken groups, and I think anyone who knows the PRS, we don't need to name them. We all know who they are. Some fall like little nuts from a tree, and others like to sit in the corner and rant. Um um but yeah I think I think in in what has become common political dialogue now it is very anim animalistic it's very tribalistic it is very we're going to burn down the system but interestingly again taking
 
 

00:47:54

 
Ben Moser: Yes. Yes.
Kristjan Byfield: aligning with a lot of politics a lot of that conversation is being driven by people who are not directly impacted by what they are
Ben Moser: No. And that's why people like Ben Beedle at the NRLA who's doing a great job of of trying to put a landlord's perspective out there. He's doing great work. Um, and there are people on a larger scale doing stuff similar. Um, what I've come to realize in my time doing this is that there are a lot of people doing work that people don't hear about.
Kristjan Byfield: Yuck.
Ben Moser: I think I mentioned to you before there's um there's been some people I've met with over the last couple of weeks who are doing some incredible work um you know in different ways. There's a they're called Ben and Sylvia on LinkedIn. Um they're based in Cudden. Check them out on LinkedIn. They're doing they're doing a really cool sort of work with um down in Cudden and Kent where they're looking at how they can make the system work from the job the job uh placement space beginning and then working through to the housing side after that.
 
 

00:49:04

 
Ben Moser: Um and I think they're amazing and he's he's 23 years old and he's doing that.
Kristjan Byfield: Wow.
Ben Moser: I know right. I thought I was doing well at my age, but you know, which I won't ask you to guess how old that is, but um I feel older, Christian.
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, I think you look great for 62. Yeah.
Ben Moser: I'm not going to lie. Um but they're doing amazing work there. Um there's another chap um Richard Drawwater um at his company there, RJ&T Housing. They're based up in Liverpool. Um, and he's doing some fantastic work from a vantage point having been a social housing tenant where he's trying to start an investment round to make him to get himself to be an a registered provider. With his experience, he'd be amazing at it. There's just there's all these individual stories of really experienced people who in in different ways and experience through research, experienced through life experience, experience through who they've met along the way. Um, who can really put into perspective how easy it is to make the system work.
 
 

00:50:11

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: It's also people like Sue Smith. It's people like you who cut through the noise and just give us facts, give us examples of things that work and why they work. And that's what we're doing is and what we aim to do more.
Kristjan Byfield: Look, I've felt for a long time, and this isn't just in housing, I felt for a long time like um kind of social entrepreneurism for for one of a better phrase, um I think is what is going to
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: shift the needle. It's it's what is going to change lives because for whatever reason government are unwilling or unable at a local or national level to figure this s*** out. You know, when we when we look at housing um we look at the biggest problem which we all know uh which is that we can't seem to hold on to a housing minister for more than six months at a time. I mean, and and and that sounds like some sort of overexaggerated f***.
Ben Moser: No, no, no.
Kristjan Byfield: As we both know, for the last 20 years, we average something like nine months per period for a housing minister.
 
 

00:51:18

 
Ben Moser: It's just Yeah, knife.
Kristjan Byfield: And and as we both know, most of those people come in, sometimes they're a landlord with one or two properties on their books, but that that being a landlord of one or two properties does not make you a housing expert. Um, outside of that, if they're not that, but even if they are, outside of that, they tend to have little to no knowledge of planning, housing, developing, etc., etc. Yeah.
Ben Moser: agency and I do I think people overlook the importance of agency and the ex expertise surrounding agency, you know. Um
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think, you know, as we know, the the the the ones that have come in with good intentions have come in and been like, "Okay, I don't know what I don't know. I'm going to spend the next three to six months figuring out what this beast of housing is and where the real problems are." and
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: chants, they start wrapping their head around what the core issues are, they get offered a role somewhere else or they get pushed somewhere else.
 
 

00:52:27

 
Kristjan Byfield: Uh, and we're back to square one. And I think, you know, fundamentally, I mean, I can't I can't imagine anyone being able to drive and deliver a successful housing policy who wasn't in situ for at least five years.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, you and I both know and that's, you know, minimum like really I think you're going to probably need like a 10-year remit um to because we all know how slow everything is, you know, to drive change
Ben Moser: I think that's Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: in planning and development and funding and and access to all of those things.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: It is such it is such a beast of a job and so much um foundational kind of structure needs literally tearing to pieces and remapping that without someone without a person or an organization there to lead that for
Ben Moser: There.
Kristjan Byfield: at least five years we're not going to get anywhere. And and we're not going to have anyone sit in that role for five years. We're also I'm I'm one of many people who for years have been clamoring for the deolitize the you know depoliticizing housing.
 
 

00:53:38

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um it's never going to f****** happen because as we all know it is a beautiful voting swinger to kick about regardless of whether you deliver on any of the pledges or not.
Ben Moser: No.
Kristjan Byfield: I mean you I think we can argue that that every government for the last 20 or 30 years has pretty much f****** fallen flat on their ass on their housing pledges. Um so you know on on the one hand we've got this thing which can swing quite a lot of votes but on the other hand the fact that actually whatever they say to swing the votes doesn't materialize anyway. Um so yeah I think you know we can keep on waiting and and banging on the walls for government to to sort its s*** out and and figure out how to deliver housing and and the fact that housing
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: is nuanced. You know you touched on it as well. You know, it's something that always infuriates me. Sales or letings, it doesn't matter. We talk about housing and the market in the UK like it is a single entity.
 
 

00:54:37

 
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, as as we all know, it is a cluster of micro communities and regulations and attitudes and planning processes and you know, it's it's my god it is such a complex beast and I think you know what
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: gets lost is in the media. There's so much dialogue that talks about the housing market, talks about prices.
Ben Moser: Well, it's like you said, it's a vote winner, isn't it? It's a headline winner, isn't it? to just to just find something to to blame. Whereas from my experience, and I'm sure you you'll find the same being, you know, an entrepreneur in this in this space, I use that term because I prefer that than trying to say in the housing market, as you've just said, in this space, um it's a lot easier to find people to work with rather than listen to people telling you you can't work with anyone. Um, and that's been why we've got to the position of of funding as as it is and looking at developing because people believe in what we're doing.
 
 

00:55:42

 
Ben Moser: People believe in in the mission. They believe in and I say a mission, you know, it's not a non for profofit obviously, you know, it's it is a development branch as such, but with the aim of getting as many families housed. And you you you mentioned this at the start about everybody working together. Our strap line's always been everyone under one roof from the first day of inception.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: That's been the phrase that we've stuck with because that's what we believe can work. And doing it this way, you know, whether it's uh straight development, whether it's repurposing um repurposing properties, you know, period properties, buildings with six flats in it, you know, turning into potentially looking at the HMO market, but that in itself has been ostracized. uh you'll hear you'll you'll have heard I'm sure the number of groups and individuals saying about how tough it is for the HMO market. you know, there's a certain there there are definitely sections of the social housing space that would greatly benefit from the HMO space and do um it's pushing it all to one side, finding a way to make the system work and that's what we believe we've done or we can continue to do in London and and as you me mentioned before we started speaking hopefully beyond that because we we can do this if people believe that we
 
 

00:57:03

 
Ben Moser: can keep all the problems s ticked, all the boxes ticked, which is how we it's how I started this whole thing is start with the problems, find the solutions, and then push the service.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: And that's where we're at.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. I mean, I think it when when you first came to me and told me what what your guys kind of plans and ambitions were, I thought, you know, I thought it was a great to hear a commercial No,
Ben Moser: Be honest.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, a great to hear a commercial agency thinking um more altruistically in terms of community and social. I think there is again harking back to this this weirdness of human psychology. I think there is this fascinating kind of dichotomy about oh you can be a profit-making business or you can be a socially you can be a socially beneficial business or but you can't be both because they conflict one another and I think there's a really interesting topic of conversation there because it's like sorry so you're saying an outright for profofit business is better than a business that juggles profit and social purpose bizarre.
 
 

00:58:09

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, you also set up a system for failure because if you say right, you can only be socially beneficial, you only you can only be a charitable business if you are a bonafide not for profofit, you are then building a business that relies entirely on funding. Simple. There is no simple way around that fact. If you are not allowed to be a commercially viable generating business, you build a business that is relying on grants and funds and donations and everything else.
Ben Moser: Yeah, I won't go into how how that is. It's uh
Kristjan Byfield: And exactly that is complicated enough as it is, but again, as we've touched on, you have a new housing minister, you have a new local government, you have a new national government. These are constantly changing at different times and cycles. And like that, you know, overnight you could be delivering an amazing business and suddenly wake up one morning to find that half your funding's coming to an end.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And we've seen it with businesses. You know, one thing I've always felt fascinated, one one thing that has kicked around my head for years, and I think we touched on this when you and I were first talking early doors, and it's always been something that if someone doesn't pursue it before then, it's something I really want to pursue down the line, is um what I find really interesting when you when you look back to the times of the industrial revolution, right?
 
 

00:59:26

 
Kristjan Byfield: When you look back to the very kind of you could argue the kind of root of capitalism, right, where people really started looking at particularly in this country commercialization at scale, work forces at scale, um substantial kind of
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: industrial output. Um, fascinatingly what you got back then, for the ones who did it right, we all know there were plenty that didn't, but for the ones who did it right, they built mills, but they built quality schooling, they built quality housing, they built on-site education, they built, you know, the good ones did it right. you look back at one of the biggest social housing providers uh at the turn of the century was Guinness, you know, they used to build housing all over the all over the nation, you know, and I think what's
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: really fascinating is that we now live in a world where that business model has been put on f****** hyperdrive and we have our Teslas and our Googles and our Apples and our Facebooks making billions if not you know trying to get to the trillion dollar profit mark and yet there is none of this infrastructure there is none of this delivery and I think I personally think it would be fascinating to get in front of some of
 
 

01:00:43

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: these companies with mega money and be like you know what why don't you give me a hundred million quid and I'm going to build Facebook social housing I'm gonna build Google. You want to elevate your brand beyond a f****** logo and beyond, you know, YouTube views commission. Why don't you really shift the needle and do s*** that that the original did at scale and also potentially have the weight of that organization behind you, not to only go, do you know what?
Ben Moser: actually makes a difference. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: f****** love it. Here's 100 million quid, but we're not only going to give you that. you have access to our legal team, you know, yeah, but seriously, any organization out there, you know, if this, you know, it's something that has kicked, it's been kicking around my head for at least five years now is
Ben Moser: to here. Well, if anyone's listening from those organizations, we're pretty set up. I'll bring Christian along as well. You know, we're right here.
 
 

01:01:54

 
Kristjan Byfield: we did it before, why can't we do it again? You know, and and and fascinating. You look at the reputation these companies and their bosses are getting to at the moment. This, you know, we're we're we're reaching the heights of social disparity uh and income disparity. And I think, you know, fascinatingly, it would be a way that those businesses could dramatically pivot in pretty much every single one of their major markets. You know, housing is a problem worldwide. It's not a It's not a UK only problem.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, yeah, you know, overnight they could pivot. They could still hold assets. You know, they're not even losing money. Everything they put in would still be an asset that you hold. You would obviously need to to work hard and work tirelessly to make sure that all the contracts and structure of that can't be leveraged um unethically in the future.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I think that would be probably the biggest challenge is is getting that initial architecture particularly from a legal perspective right to enshrine it so that it it remains uh a socially focused um um object.
 
 

01:03:07

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but for me, I think it's a fascinating thing.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: You know, I think, you know, when we look at, you know, let's stop talking about f****** fruit salad bowls and and pingpong nights and, you know, and and and pizza Thursdays with the big companies, you know, let's really start see them delivering some big s***.
Ben Moser: Put your money where your mouth is. Yeah. An infrastructure.
Kristjan Byfield: Start pay start paying off some investing in some amazing students and paying off their student debt. put a s*** ton of money into creating a bonafide social housing platform that delivers social change, delivers housing that people want and look what that will do for your brand. You think people are loyal to your brand now, put them in a f****** quality home for half the market rate and see how f****** loyal they become then, you know?
Ben Moser: Yeah. No argument in here.
Kristjan Byfield: And and the other fascinating thing is it kind of feeds back into their business model because guess what? You put people in housing where they they've got more disposable income.
 
 

01:04:03

 
Kristjan Byfield: Guess what the f*** they tend to do with that disposable income? Spend it on products and services. So, you know, it's a it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But yeah, look, I think um anyone listening to this, if you are wrestling with social kind of considerations like this within your agency, anywhere in the country and you feel like you want to figure out how you can work to deliver this, guys, please reach out to Ben, have a chat, figure out, you know, learn from what they've learned and and and hopefully collaborate together. And as Ben has alluded to, you know, the big focus for them is to now really try and move into the development side. So what we really need is people with land uh buildings, particularly commercial buildings, change of use is is relatively accessible uh in most areas of the country. Um you know, these are the kinds of people that Ben and the organizations he's collaborating and talking to want to talk to. So if you're someone sat with a parcel of land with a parcel of building, you think, you know what, I want to do something.
 
 

01:05:12

 
Kristjan Byfield: Be nice if it had a bit of a return, but I also want to give something back. Um, this is a very good avenue for you to figure that out. So if you're someone like that, listen to this. If you know someone like that and you're listening to this, um, and particularly if you know someone who holds the purse strings at any of the mega businesses talking about, send them the link to this podcast, get to have a listen, get to reach out to Ben, and and yeah, have a chat. But I think, look, I think it's I think it's a really uh exciting phase for our industry. And I think, you know, I'm really I think it's great to see people like you, you know, just asking the questions, trying to do something a bit different, you know, um win, lose or fail, you know, it something will come out in the wash, you know, and you're already doing doing some good and hopefully, you know, that will continue to grow. So, um I applaud you and the others like you and and yeah, keep doing what you're doing.
 
 

01:06:10

 
Ben Moser: Okay.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, so we're now we're going to trickle off the back of that and we're going to pivot slightly differently into a chat that we were having before we came on air.
Ben Moser: Okay.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, in that you have recently had a second child.
Ben Moser: Yes. Yes, I have. We have I did not have the child. No, we have had it. Um, yes.
Kristjan Byfield: I said it was you in the plural.
Ben Moser: You plural. Yes, we have had our second child. Yeah. Um we we we've got a four and a bit old at home who's just about to start school. And yes, we have a nearly two-month-old who has um shaken the shaken the tree, shaken the everything, the tree, the planet, the bed, the sleep, my brain. Yeah. He's he's adorable though. So he makes Okay.
Kristjan Byfield: So you and I start having a chat because obviously um my kids are about what three or four years older but similar age gap.
 
 

01:07:11

 
Kristjan Byfield: My my lad's about to turn for next month. Just annoyingly misses the school cutoff by like two weeks. We've got to wait another year. Like a is quite frustrating for us, but b that boy is ready for school.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Jesus, he was using some we having a chat last night and he was using words like automatically. I was like, huh?
Ben Moser: Nice.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, he came out with some really good long words. I was like, Jesus Christ, dude, you need to get yourself to school.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, so yeah, so we've got that and then our our daughter turns eight in December and she's just finished year two. So, you know, where you are, but but three years down the line.
Ben Moser: Nice. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and you and I had a bit of a chat because, you know, we're both uh fundamentally entrepreneurs within our within our business, within our sector, within our field. Um, we're commercially driven as well as as we've touched on, you know, not just being about the financials, wanting to deliver something that's quality and and, you know, we feel good and right about.
 
 

01:08:13

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, how do you find juggling parenthood particularly right now and it's like when the when the new ones come around? Um, how do you find juggling the two and how do you kind of decide where that where that um where that line falls on any given day?
Ben Moser: Oh, it's a good question. It's a really good question. I can imagine there's probably loads of parents and I think you said it before, lots of dads who probably, I don't know, may maybe feel like they um know the answer to that. Um I I didn't um everything changed when when when Ezra our first came and then since Hrix came um that that was my wife's one that we were listening to cross town traffic in the car and um she
Kristjan Byfield: Hendrick. Amazing.
Ben Moser: just turned to me and was just like Hendrickx would be a really good name. I was like yeah she's she's Indian.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, Amazing.
Ben Moser: She's Indian. So I think the the uh the mixed heritage has definitely played into his like coolness.
 
 

01:09:26

 
Ben Moser: Um but yeah, you know, um our work in this in everyone's work life balance with children is tough. Um I I like you I think we're very hands-on um and enjoy being hands-on. So that line between the the importance of pushing the work and what you're doing at work and your time at home is is it's so personal, right? It's like it's so focused. It it's so based, I suppose, really on, I guess, how you how you your childhood was, but also how that then plays into how you want to parent. And you know I I'm no way a judgmental parent on anybody. Um we all have our priorities in life. Um I found that having started the initiative Peterman's housing initiatives. Um I've never been an entrepreneur before. Um you know we all sit in the pub with our mates and think that setting up a pub is a really good idea when we're 19 and 20 and whatever. And then you know you find something that's your spark and you're like f*** this is what I want to do with my life.
 
 

01:10:38

 
Ben Moser: that came after we unfortunately had a miscarriage. Um well a little little on a year god it was about it is and but no one talks about it.
Kristjan Byfield: which is surprisingly common. I mean, it's it's a thing that doesn't get talked about.
Ben Moser: Nope.
Kristjan Byfield: A friend of mine, I think, went through five before they had their first trial.
Ben Moser: It's just it is and you know it's it's it's probably the one of the worst experiences of my life. um you know um and I suppose with the time we've got we could probably talk about that a whole another time but what it did do was give me a bit of a focus because I've been thinking about doing this and it did give me a thing like s*** I want to do what I've said I'm going to do and you said it for my kids and obviously back then I thought it was just Ezra and things progressed from there and then when Hrix came along it was like oh my god I'm f****** exhausted again I've completely forgotten that newborn s don't know s*** about sleeping.
 
 

01:11:36

 
Ben Moser: So, you're just like, "Okay, um I can't I sleep for three hours a day. Um but I also don't want to miss the first time he smiles, which thank god I didn't because he is and it's adorable." Um so, yeah, it's like I think I would always want to try and be there for for for all the milestones. Um, and you mentioned when we were talking before this about um that age up to to 10, I think you said being
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I think I I shared a couple of things with you and I I might have shared them before, but I think they're always worth sharing again. There there were there were two things I read and like I said I don't I don't remember exactly when I read them whether it was just before or after we had LV but somewhere in that early phase. Um and there are two things that have really shaped my attitude towards parenting and like I said how how I make that distinction and differentiation between what what is more important at any given time.
 
 

01:12:33

 
Kristjan Byfield: And yeah so the first of those um was exactly that. It was, you know, I'd read a story. It was about an entrepreneur who, like so many, was like, I'm going to build a business. It's going to be a success, and that's going to enable me to give my family the most amazing life. We're going to live in a big house, and we'll have a swimming pool, and we'll go on amazing holidays all year. And he spent 15 years building this business. did everything he set out to do, but as so many entrepreneurs do, worked obsessively for that 15 years building that business, exited the business, made a s*** ton of money, 20, 30, 40 million quid. Happy days. Basically kind of turned around to his then teenage kids and was like, "Great guys, what should we do?" And his kids basically turned around to him and and in his own words were more or less like, "Sorry, who the f*** are you? We we've had no who are you? Like you're someone who pays the bills.
 
 

01:13:28

 
Kristjan Byfield: We've had no relationship with you for 15 years. And guess what? When your kids are 15, 16, 17, 18, if you've raised them right, or maybe not, uh they, you know, they want to start be, you know, treading out. They want to be going out with their mates and going to festivals and going on holidays with their friends and and exploring and adventuring and and developing that independence. And guess what? you know, particularly if you've not been around, then they're not interested in you being part of that journey because you haven't been part of that journey before. And I think that massively with where we were seven, eight years ago uh with Bass, um we hadn't we hadn't quite yet made the decision to to start with the depository yet. Um but yeah, that very much framed that consideration. So now anytime I'm invited to something that is you know an evening or a weekend or you know means it's going to be head down lock in stuff there is that internal question of is this worth the sacrifice?
 
 

01:14:30

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um
Ben Moser: And that's okay as well. I feel like sometimes people feel like, "Oh, now that I'm back at work, I've got to be back at work." I think it's okay to question whether you want to prioritize that and not have that come back to you and think, "Oh, I don't care about my work anymore." Or it's like you're always going to want to be around your kids and it's okay to want to be around them, you know, and don't feel bad about that.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: I don't I I miss them whenever I'm not around them, even when they're, you know, really f****** annoying, which toddlers. You you you Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Ben Moser: Oh my god. Yeah. You know, they know you have push your buttons. Maybe less so. Um but you know, it's it's okay to be a um an all-in dad, an allin to not be.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. And find that balance, you know, equally I think it's, you know, also, you know, it's also okay.
 
 

01:15:30

 
Kristjan Byfield: I think my with this to be aware, just to be doesn't mean you have to be a permanently present mom or dad.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly right.
Kristjan Byfield: Um it doesn't mean that the kids always have to come first because I equally don't think that's healthy either.
Ben Moser: No. No. Agreed.
Kristjan Byfield: Um you know if if we do want to build things that are going to deliver a certain quality of life and a certain if nothing else a certain security for you and your kids going forward education housing etc. You know there are going to be some tough choices. You are going to do those odd late nights. You are going to have to go away for that odd business trip. I think it's just about for me it's just about making sure you ask yourself that question.
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Don't default into turning down every opportunity because you can't spend a second and equally don't sideline your kids to build this epic empire that they're not really f****** interested in. Yeah.
 
 

01:16:16

 
Ben Moser: You want to be there? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's exactly it. It is so much. And you're only going to know that the more time you give yourself.
Kristjan Byfield: And you know, let me say that first 10 years, that first roughly 10 years of your kids' life, you their world revolves around you.
Ben Moser: Speak.
Kristjan Byfield: You know, you feed them, you house them, you clothe them, you increasingly drive them around, you know, you become their parent, taxi, everything else. Once you start coming out of that phase and they start getting their independence and again, you know, if you I feel if you're raising your kids right, you know, they will strive to have that element of independence in
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: life. um yeah, you you become less significant. So, make the most of it. And and the other thing we touched on as well, you know, for me for reframing is this thing of your kid's age. And we touched on it, you know, I said to you the other day, um when Elvie turned seven, um I turned to my wife on on her birthday and when you do realize she's a third of the way to 21. I find it is it it just it just keeps you focused because honestly that seven years I don't know where the f*** that has gone.
 
 

01:17:21

 
Ben Moser: I don't want to start thinking like that because that's crazy. It's a good thing to think. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: How that girl is about to turn eight in you know in what where are we now?
Ben Moser: That's crazy.
Kristjan Byfield: August in four months time she would already be eight.
Ben Moser: That's crazy.
Kristjan Byfield: You know that f*** that has gone you know and the fact that she's you know a third of the way to being 21 you know and and again reframing that that 10 plus she's halfway to 14 you know
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: she's halfway to to terrifying me and blowing my mind as a teen.
Ben Moser: See, I've got two boys. So, um, my my biggest concern is going to be when they start, you know, diving head first off of a wall into the park and, you know.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, like you think that's going to be fine. Different problems, isn't it?
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Part four of a Mount Everest peak.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, yeah.
Ben Moser: Yes.
 
 

01:18:24

 
Kristjan Byfield: So, but no, I think I think for me those those are two things that landed very close to one another and and for quite obvious reasons have really really stuck in my my brain. And for me, they are the thing I I come back to. But I think also, you know, we're all we're different people with different parents as well. You know, I think the reality is, as much as we may want to be, we are not all cut out to be great parents. And also, we have different skill sets at different phases of our kids' lives.
Ben Moser: Well, great. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So, you know, again, we touched on this earlier. You know, don't force yourself to be a stay-at-home dad in the first year of your kid's life if spending time with a dribbling lunatic uh drives you up the f****** wall, you know? I mean, I I remember very vividly when we had LD. I remember the first three months that we had LB was I found really weird. Um because you have this you you have this image built up of your first kid and dad and it comes along and wow it's oh my god a lifechanging thing it is and then what you don't f****** realize
 
 

01:19:27

 
Ben Moser: Me too with both. Yep. They're so beautiful. They are the best thing ever.
Kristjan Byfield: unless you've probably done your research which I suppose some dads do but knowing most dads we haven't is they come along they can't f****** see s*** for the first five months. Um, you know, if if your wife's able uh and willing to breastfeed, which which my was very happy to do, you know, you know, and and unlike you, I was very lucky.
Ben Moser: Thanks. Say man.
Kristjan Byfield: Our two our two little beasts have been very good sleepers when they decide to f****** sleep. Um, but then yeah, they are epic. But that first three months, like I took I think I took four or six weeks paternity leave.
Ben Moser: Yeah, that's great.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, you know, it was the great thing obviously being self-employed and having a business partner who's incredibly supportive, you know, and it was like you are you are f****** off and you are enjoying this like go and be a dad, you know, don't rush back.
 
 

01:20:33

 
Kristjan Byfield: And that that was amazing to have that support. Coincidental and quite fortuitous that she was born in December when typically our business is really quiet. That definitely helped.
Ben Moser: Your Christmas break.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, but then I really f***** it with a second one because we had him in September which is peak summer season. So, you know, chalk and balanced it there.
Ben Moser: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: But, um, but that first three months I found bewildering as a dad, right? Because I have never been so excited about something and then found myself to be so utterly irrelevant.
Ben Moser: Yeah. It's like you're looking at just a little creature.
Kristjan Byfield: I just I felt like nothing but an annoyance like to both primarily to my wife because it was like oh like Yeah.
Ben Moser: I'll take the child. You take child. Child cries. Oh, go to sleep.
Kristjan Byfield: Right.
Ben Moser: Cry. Okay, that didn't work. Half an hour. We're all more stressed than we were before.
 
 

01:21:28

 
Ben Moser: You could have just gone and done the dishes.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I remember I mean I've always been pretty brutally direct with everyone in my life. Um, and so my my um in-laws uh don't get any different treatment. Um, and my mother-in-law, I remember those first three months, I think she was slightly traumatized by my reaction because literally every day she came around, every she didn't come around every day. Every time every time she came to see us, I'd kind of open the front door to us and she'd be like, "Hi, darling. Isn't being a dad amazing?" And I would just look at her like blank face and be like, "Uh, sure. I
Ben Moser: That's all right.
Kristjan Byfield: mean, let me know when it starts. You know, I was so dead pan for the first three months. I remember even after a few weeks, my mother being like, "You're all right. You're all right. You seem a bit" And I'm like, "Jane, I just I literally I've never felt that more of a spare wheel in my entire f****** life.
 
 

01:22:24

 
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I've never felt so irrelevant." And
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: then like you said, you get to that three month mark and all of a sudden you have that proper moment of eye contact with your kid for the first time. You have that first smile, that first giggle that and then then it shifts gears and then it and then it and then it changes. But yeah, and funny enough, I remember I remember talking to a lot of my mates who most of my mates kind of had kids just before us.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: week kind of had us kind of later than most. But I remember talking about this with quite a few of my mates and then being like, "You too. Thank f***." I've had loads of friends be like, "I couldn't tell anyone. I faked it for three months. I was faking this like it was all b*******.
Ben Moser: It's so lovely.
Kristjan Byfield: I I had no idea what was going on. I've never felt so irrelevant." And
 
 

01:23:16

 
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: it was really fascinating to talk about it because I had loads of mates be like, "Oh s***, that wasn't just me. I
Ben Moser: YouTube.
Kristjan Byfield: wasn't just being weird." It's like, "No, because you were f****** you were irrelevant."
Ben Moser: You don't help you might change your nappy talking.
Kristjan Byfield: Some of them was a roof over our head and like fetching some water at the right temperature when someone needed it. Like, yeah, basically that was that, you know, that was it. So yeah, I think that it's it's um Yeah.
Ben Moser: What does it just talk to people? You feel like it's building up too much. Um, tell somebody. That's it.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. And I think also, you know, I think fascinatingly, you know, when we when we look at at work and parenting, and I think, you know, another another reason um men will often default to a work situation rather than a parenting situation. Um and again I've talked about this a bit in the boys club um that we have the kind of mental health closed mental health group on Facebook is that what I find really fascinating is work's really really easy even when you own the business right you fundamentally know when you when you turn up and do a day at work you fundamentally know whether you've put the work in that day when you work out the walk out
 
 

01:24:31

 
Kristjan Byfield: the door at the end of the night you know whether you've done a productive day you know if you've moved the needle sometimes those are literally specific results.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I've done XY Z deals. I've generated XY Z income or you know it's I'm working towards delivery of this project and we you know we've made some sub substantial ground.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: It's it's measurable. The problem with parenting totally f****** unmeasurable. You go and you can feel like you've been the best dad in the world and then your partner be like, "Oh, I can't believe you didn't sort this out." And you're like, f***.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Yes, I should have absolutely done that. or you know, you think you've just given your child like the best day ever and they turn around and just and are just most hungry.
Ben Moser: Where's moment?
Kristjan Byfield: Oh s***, you know, whatever it is, and you're just like, and I think I think I think for a lot of guys, I think it's it's that thing of of like I said, it's just this this clearer black
 
 

01:25:25

 
Ben Moser: I just I just I just Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: and white area of I'm doing it right, I'm doing it wrong, I'm doing I'm doing it badly.
Ben Moser: And it's so It's so gray.
Kristjan Byfield: And I think yeah but I think I think most important thing be there as much as you you know as much as you can.
Ben Moser: It's so gray. It's not black and white.
Kristjan Byfield: Like I said you have to be truthful to yourself.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: You I know lots of people who have gone through phases with their kids where you know particular phases they just can't relate. They you know they're there. do what they have to do, but there are phase in their life where they're just like, I can't I cannot build a connection with you. I can't have a conversation with you. I can't Exactly.
Ben Moser: They're developing, aren't they? Everyone, everyone is. Just because we're adults doesn't mean that we're not developing ourselves. You know, we we are developing the way that we are with children.
 
 

01:26:27

 
Ben Moser: and the children are relating and developing in the way that they deal with us as parents, but also growing as humans. So, no one's going to be able to make it click exactly right all the time. Like, no one adults don't. Marriages don't Yeah,
Kristjan Byfield: And also, you know, like you said, you know, I grew up, I've talked a lot about the fact, you know, I grew up, we travel around a lot. I went to boarding school from eight years old with my with my parents in the other side of the world. Um, but I had a great relationship with my parents. You know, my my dad was a bit of a workaholic. you know, if he wasn't working, he was playing cricket. Um, and but but fascinatingly, you know, and and and as is common with our generation, there were swaves of time where where parenting was basically just leaving me to my leaving to me to my own devices.
Ben Moser: you you've spoken to my mom, so I'll um
Kristjan Byfield: the tropes on Facebook.
 
 

01:27:26

 
Kristjan Byfield: You know, I'd literally go out in the morning and come back at night and mom would have my parents would have no idea where I've been all day. And I could have been anywhere from watching TV around a mate's house to climbing down a well, you know, it was it was literally anything in between those.
Ben Moser: You climbed down a well, didn't you?
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. Those are two real life examples. Um, so but it you know it's fascinating because I I didn't necessarily have anywhere near the amount of hands-on time that that traditional parents had because of because of the type of upbringing.
Ben Moser: I think it's generational as well though.
Kristjan Byfield: But I had a fantastic relationship. Well, it was a fantastic I had a fantastic relationship with my kids. I loved my upbringing. Like I said, I was I was a very independent kid. boarding school for me. As I said, I was, you know, when I was three, four, five years old, I wasn't the kid who cried when you get dropped off for a sleepover.
 
 

01:28:22

 
Kristjan Byfield: I was the kid who cried when your parents turned up to pick you up.
Ben Moser: Oh no.
Kristjan Byfield: Boarding school. Boarding school. I I f****** love boarding school. I slotted into that s*** like nobody's business. I remember literally lying in bed the first night, eight years old.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: My parents were in Singapore on the other side of the world. Um, in fact, it's a half flight. Mom stayed for the first few weeks. I think she I think she found me going to boarding school much harder.
Ben Moser: Well, yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Definitely harder.
Ben Moser: And you would you will do now if if yours.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, I mean my wife and I talked about it just hypothetically. Um, no. I I wouldn't want to I I don't want my kids to be raised by someone else. um as much as the opportunities and the and the amazing rate you know that I I had access to through my education two amazing schools and you know literally particularly the second school called Stow uh which for those
 
 

01:29:04

 
Ben Moser: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: who don't know is one of those uber uber posh uber privileged schools. It is absolutely f****** mental. It's an old stately mansion 758 acres of landscape gardens at a 9-hole golf course. uh three lakes, um you name it. Had a polo team. You could It had its own beagling kennels, you know. It was like bonkers.
Ben Moser: Wow.
Kristjan Byfield: f****** mental. I went to school with with major industrialist capitalist princes from nations around the world, all sorts of stuff. Um and and yeah, little old me was there with my dad at times, desperately struggling to pay the bills.
Ben Moser: Wow.
Kristjan Byfield: Um but you know kind of um but yeah it was you know it was a fascinating upbringing but you know it's fascinating this stuff we bring in like I said I loved my upbringing I had a fantastic relationship
Ben Moser: Well, you turned out all right. So,
Kristjan Byfield: with my parents growing up um adored them we were very close but achieved that through actually fairly limited time together particularly once I turned eight.
 
 

01:30:21

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and yeah, but but kind of my obsession is spending as much time as I can with my kids. You know, you and I were talking earlier. I love doing the school run. I do the school run every morning.
Ben Moser: Yeah, me too.
Kristjan Byfield: The school is like a 10, 12 minute walk from our house. Um, it's a really lovely walk. You know, Elie goes to school. We've got a child minder who picks up from school. So, two days a week, three days a week. Two days a week. You can tell we're halfway through the summer f****** holidays, can't you? Three days a week uh picks up um Arlo from school. So, three days a week it's both of them. Two days of the week it's just Elby. And I f****** adore that time. It's precious. You know, sometimes we talk, sometimes we pr, sometimes we walk, sometimes she'll skateboard or cycle or whatever it is.
Ben Moser: Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: She's decided is her mode of transport for that morning.
 
 

01:31:13

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um but you know, I was saying to my MS turned around to me last year and was like, "Look, you I can tell you've got a lot on at work and you're kind of stressing a little bit about your workload. You know, why don't I take over doing the school run and you can go in and do an extra hour each day? And I was like, get the f*** back. I was like, do not touch it.
Ben Moser: Don't you take this from me.
Kristjan Byfield: I was like, no, no, no. I was I'd rather be stressed because that having that moment in the morning and then going off to work, you know, that just fills me up for the day and then I get back in the evening and I
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: always make sure again with the exception of kind of five to 10 nights of the year when it's usually some sort of industry event. Um I'm always there for dinner and bedtime.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: um you know and those top and tail moments are are really important and I don't I don't I don't think there's an amount of money I could earn that would that would justify that because again I know you
 
 

01:32:08

 
Ben Moser: I agree. All of that.
Kristjan Byfield: know in a few years time El's going to be like you know hopefully she won't be who knows maybe some kids don't but you know there's a very good likely generally be like do you have to walk me to school I'd rather you know I'd rather just walk with Sally and Matt from around the corner and you know Yeah, exactly.
Ben Moser: Yeah. It's meant you would have done a good job though.
Kristjan Byfield: So, it's really special.
Ben Moser: I I hope to God Ezra doesn't. I mean, I'd say I'm the same. I love that that morning with him going dropping off at what will be school in September, but it's been nursery till now. But yeah, it is.
Kristjan Byfield: They're really lovely, you know. They're really, really lovely.
Ben Moser: But I also can understand that for some people they're a bit like it's all right. Like it's everyone's different, right?
Kristjan Byfield: Exactly. And it also I mean it's also circumstances right like you know my business doesn't start till 10 o'clock in the morning we made that conscious decision from the get-go I didn't used to be a particular morning person now I wake up at like 6:30 7 o'clock every f****** Well no that's not the kids my kids are good sleepers yeah my I mean they're like me they're f****** they're night owls my my little buggers stay up f******
 
 

01:33:10

 
Ben Moser: You don't get a choice. So, you know, oh, you did say, didn't you a good sleep for me, so don't be like 6:30 is a good night sleep for me.
Kristjan Byfield: late little sods, but at least they at least they have the common decency to have a decent lion with it.
Ben Moser: Well, that's that's something at least.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but yeah, listen, Ben, it's I think we've kind of skirted around the two big things we wanted to talk today. I feel like we can sit here and and waffle on for forever.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but it's been an absolute joy, buddy. It's been um and we'll talk again soon.
Ben Moser: Oh, thank you so much, Christian. I've loved it. It's been great.
Kristjan Byfield: So before we go, just to just to hop back to what we've been talking about. Um so if you're listening to this and whether you're an agent, whether you're a landlord, whether you're anyone, you know, whether you find yourself in the circumstance or you know someone um Ben is really really interested and like I said, the organization he works with people who can really now help this kind of make the next big step.
 
 

01:34:18

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, and like we said that that primarily will result in the access to some sort of land that can be developed or building that can be redeveloped. Um, so if you are in that position or you know someone in that position, um, please reach out directly to Ben, chuck a comment on some of this content somewhere, do something, but please start that conversation. Um, you're not obligated to anything. Yeah, Ben will have had these conversations, I'm sure, a hundred times over and he'll have them probably a thousand times again.
Ben Moser: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So, you know, if you just want to explore and understand a bit more of what that may look like and how that might work, um, just reach out and start the conversation. Like I said, if you know someone, nudged them our way or Ben's way rather to have a chat and and parenting wise, um you know, love to hear what what other people's thoughts are of on parenting. um partly interested to hear from other guys but also you know generally we've got more and more female entrepreneurs within our industry now um leading and driving businesses which is fantastic to see but equally facing very similar juggling
Ben Moser: Yeah, very impressive. Very impressive ladies.
Kristjan Byfield: and balances and obviously you and I Ben are very lucky we you know we we're very lucky that we have partners to to juggle this workload with um my uh my sister was a single parent and I am I mystified uh by what single government are able to manage and achieve.
Ben Moser: That's something else that
Kristjan Byfield: So I'm not even going to wade into that area. But hopefully today has been a little bit different, a little bit interesting, enlightening. Hopefully you kind of heard or or learned some sort of things that if nothing else get the juices flowing. Ben, my man, thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure and look forward to catching up soon, mate.
Ben Moser: Thank you, Christian.
Kristjan Byfield: All right, bud. Cheers. Bye, mate.