Beyond the Deal: Mental Health, Masculinity & Making Peace with Chris Webb

🎧 Episode: “Beyond the Deal: Mental Health, Masculinity & Making Peace”

What happens when the outward trappings of success start to smother the person behind the title?

In one of the most raw, powerful and deeply human episodes of The Viking Chats to date, Kristjan Byfield sits down with Chris Webb—Founder of The Estate Agent Consultancy and a long-time leader in the UK residential agency space—for a conversation that’s less about metrics, and more about meaning.

With a career spanning branch management, regional leadership, performance coaching, training, and strategic business consultancy for some of the UK’s most recognised agency brands (including Countrywide, Winkworth, EweMove and more), Chris knows what success looks like from the inside—and the toll it can take when the work stops serving the person doing it.

This isn’t a property podcast about portals, tech stacks or sales funnels.

It’s a conversation about burnout, pressure, image, identity, masculinity and mental health—and how easy it is for high-performing professionals to lose themselves in the pursuit of status, validation and control.

🚨 From Boardroom to Breakdown

At the peak of his consultancy and coaching career, Chris was working with major estate agency brands, influencing strategy and helping others deliver high performance. But under the surface, he was crumbling.

What began as a relentless drive to deliver soon tipped into self-neglect, denial and isolation. As he shares in detail, Chris found himself performing leadership while internally falling apart—until his body and mind finally called time.

This isn’t a story of a dramatic crash. It’s a story of slow, creeping disconnection. The kind that hides behind performance reviews, polished LinkedIn posts and expensive suits.

💬 The Mask of Masculinity

Chris and Kristjan explore what it means to be a man in an industry built on bravado, confidence and composure. In property, where vulnerability can be mistaken for weakness and ego is often rewarded, where is the space for honesty?

They unpack the psychological cost of trying to “have it all together”—and the subtle, systemic ways the industry discourages emotional transparency.

If you've ever felt like you're faking it on the inside while crushing it on paper, this episode will hit home.

🎯 Redefining Success

This conversation doesn’t just critique. It rebuilds.

Chris shares the tools, moments and realisations that helped him step off the treadmill and start again—with more purpose, more authenticity, and a radically different idea of what “success” actually looks like.

Together, he and Kristjan discuss:

• The role of therapy and mental health support in leadership
• How distorted values can derail even the most capable professionals
• What companies can do to spot (and support) people who are struggling
• Why we need to normalise not being OK in high-pressure environments

💡 Why This Episode Matters

Whether you're an MD, a founder, or an up-and-coming professional, this episode isn’t just for you—it’s about you.

It’s about:

• How the very traits that drive your success can quietly destroy your well-being
• How corporate culture often rewards masks, not people
• How real leadership starts with self-awareness, not self-sacrifice

Chris Webb’s story is far from unique. That’s what makes it essential listening.

🧠 What You’ll Take Away

• You’re not alone if you’re struggling behind the scenes
• Leadership doesn’t have to mean emotional isolation
• It’s never too late to slow down, ask questions and make different choices
• The industry is ready—and in desperate

Transcript

Kristjan Byfield: Okay. Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats podcast and I'm delighted to be joined today by none other than Mr. Chris Webb, the estate agent. Chris, thank you for joining me today.
Chris Webb: Thank you for having me on and well done for doing your in your intros live. By the way, I gave up on doing live introductions to my podcast a long time ago because I used to get them wrong so many times. I used to frustrate the guest. So, well done for still sticking with it.
Kristjan Byfield: Cheers. Uh I think my my one I had one yesterday with with um Dan and uh yeah, it was an interesting one because I'd got caught in the rain. I was post gym workout as well. I was not looking pretty. So I fitted in a caveat of sorry I look so appalling, but on we go with the show. Um so Chris, look for those out there who are not familiar with Mr. Chris Webb, uh, give us a little bit about you.

00:01:00

 Chris Webb: Yeah, sure. So, um, property through and through, uh, whether by choice or not by choice, who knows sort of thing. But I started being an estate agent when I was 18 years old, which was quite a long time ago now. Um, and very quickly sort of rose to the ranks. So, sort of you name a job in estate agency, I've probably done it. Um, from sort of junior negotiator where my only job was to do viewings six days a week. Um, and that was probably 20 viewings a day in total. So you got some serious mileage on your car doing that right through from junior negotiator, negotiator, senior negotiator, listister, branch manager, senior branch manager, regional director, uh national performance director, and then now owner of the estate consultancy. So I've um I've had some mileage, hence the hence the wrinkles and whatever else and hairline is because I've literally done the the 125 estate a well.
Kristjan Byfield: put on your webcam is doing a great job.
Chris Webb: Um I think they've got this new new invention called Botox which is working fantastically I should say.

00:01:56

 Chris Webb: So, um yes, that along with the filter, you wouldn't guess it, but um yes, it's working over time just about
Kristjan Byfield: Well, your smile still works. So, you've obviously got a good good Botox Jabber, whatever you call them. as you can tell, never been near a boat to needle. Um, so look, great to have you on. So that was very much in a Was that quite a corporate background you were in? I mean, that list of titles sounds like a quite corporate entity to me.
Chris Webb: um so I started off with an independent estate agency. So lots of people know Ian McKenzie from the guild and Ian's kind of known from events and being Ian McKenzie. So I was um Ian's negotiator effectively when he had his own estate agency. So anyone to blame it's Ian for me being around. Um so I was with Ian independent estate agency until I was 23 24 in that sort of direction. Uh went traveling for a year at the end of that and then as soon as I came back Ian said oh I'm now a franchise director with this company come work for me basically.
 
 

00:02:51

 
 Chris Webb: So that was a a franchise base. Then from there I went to a God it's depressing when you can't remember isn't it? Like it's it's that long ago. Then I went over to a I know literally tell me about it's all gone black.
Kristjan Byfield: just so old. It's it's it's
Chris Webb: It's all gone black and white and grainy. Um and then I went to a Winkworth franchise. Then I went to Countrywide because I feel like I even an estate agent even go to Countrywide for a period of time. And then from there I went to the property franchise group. So that was sort of the round. So a little bit of a mix of both. Um, certainly I enjoyed more the franchise/independent point of view rather than the the corporate point of view. Not a fan of a spreadsheet. I like dealing with people. I like selling properties. I don't like dealing with Excel spreadsheets for 10 hours a day and on conference calls.
 
 

00:03:33

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I think it's a slightly more personal business, right? Both as an operation, but also the relationships you have with your clients and customers.
Chris Webb: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that was sort of the journey and when I joined the property franchise group that was my first kind of off the tools point of view and I was looking after franchises then and given them sort of advice on how to make their businesses better which is fantastic. I do that for about five years but when you're dealing with that number of franchises it's don't say exhausting but like your phone does not stop ringing like you I would say to people like you've got 10 minutes of my time like what what do you need and and that doesn't it didn't really feel to me like a fantastic service in the grand scheme of things.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Chris Webb: So um launched the estate tank sold see two and a half years ago now you know with the goal of making estate agency the obvious choice in their local marketplace.
 
 

00:04:16

 
 Chris Webb: We only deal with certain amount of number of agents at any one time just to make sure that we make kind of make sure they do as well as they possibly can do.
Kristjan Byfield: But coming back also to what you said so that you can build those relationships so you can understand because not every agency is the same right not they don't all have the same objectives or growth plans or ambitions they operate in different markets be that sales letings and then the segments within there um I think yeah I think you've got to have kind of a restricted number of clients right otherwise you know you become a commodity rather than valable asset
Chris Webb: Exactly. And the first thing I always say to any client I work with is like, you know, what do you want your business to actually look like? Do you actually want it to be you know do you want to have loads of staff or do you wanna you know just be a one person band or you know what you know it's your business and there is no wrong answer here.
 
 

00:05:04

 
 Chris Webb: If you're like I want to be a one person band and just sell two houses a month. Okay cool no problems at all. If you go actually I want to be a massive business I want to bring on this area and that area and have like great okay we can kind of go in a different direction for that. So it's not for me to kind of advise them about what to kind of which direction take their business in because it's their business ultimately. I don't want to take them in a certain direction. And they're like, "Chris, I'm working 12 hours a day." And I'm like, "Well, you know, what did you want? I only want to work six hours a day and pick my kids up from school, but I've just dragged you in this direction." So, it's about kind of working out what's right for them and then kind of making a plan together.
Kristjan Byfield: And is there is there I mean you know obviously you you apply your skills to like you said whatever the clients need.
 
 

00:05:43

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Is there a particular area of that that you particularly enjoy?
Chris Webb: I think that the the best part of it so although I've got a huge amount of estate experience I would say that the amount of time I actually coach people on being an estate agent I would say it's like 20% of my time the 80 so you know very rarely will I say to them you know on evaluation when they say this you say that and you know all this sort of salesy train that's a very very very very small part of my job The majority of it is just marketing. The majority of it is, you know, I'll deal with estate agent. I'll be like, great. You know, rank yourself from zero to 10 on how good you are being an estate agent. They'll turn around and go, "Ah, Chris, I'm a nine out of 10 estate agent." I'm like, "Awesome. That'd
Kristjan Byfield: It's amazing how they're all nine and a half, aren't they?
Chris Webb: be really good." Well, the humble one, the humble ones go like seven and a half, but that's that's kind of where it sits.
 
 

00:06:29

 
 Chris Webb: It's always from seven and a half to like nine. That's always where we look at. And I'll go, "Great. Okay. Well, if I walked down the high street in your local town and said, you know, do you know Christian estate agents? How well do you reckon you're known?" and they're like, "Well, I don't know, two out of 10, three out of 10." I'm like, "Well, okay. Where's the fix in your business? Is it me making you from a nine out of 10 agent to make you a 10 out of 10 estate agent? Or is it you me turning you from a two to like an eight with a regard to who actually knows you?" So, it's about looking at where the pinch points are in your business and actually doubling down on those.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. So, so look, you I I I came across you for one of a better phrase. Um I believe it was the women in estate agency conference when you did your very personal very brave uh talk about your person oh was that propex so we first met women estate agency you then uh
 
 

00:07:07

 
 Chris Webb: Yes. Yes. That was Propex. That was Propex. That one. Yes.
Kristjan Byfield: did did your very uh like I said very raw very open very honest conversation um at propack And I think you also uh subsequently did a similar chat for us within the boys club.
Chris Webb: I did. Yes. Um yeah, Ben dragged me onto a video call for the boys club and uh I then proceeded to cry for the next half period of time. So yeah, it was a very raw personal
Kristjan Byfield: The boys club is a really is a really healthy thing to happen. Now look, I don't we talked about this briefly before we jumped online. I don't really want to talk too much about your particular story because I feel like that is your story to share and some people already know your story. But I think to to kind of summarize that in the in the briefest of ways, you basically were the unhappiest you could be. Despite being successful within your employed career, you had reached the houseion of unhappiness.
 
 

00:08:24

 
 Kristjan Byfield: You had reached that point where you felt there was only one thing left to do. Um, and you had gone so far as to plan it and and you know, you literally stepped back right at the brink from from making that final step that cannot be unmade. Um, and like I said, I don't want to I don't want to talk so much about your story because I think I'm incredibly impressed is not the word. I I can't find the right words to to to annunciate myself right now, but um the courage it took for you to share that story even in a closed even in a closed small circle room would have been amazing. uh to stand up on a stage in front of I think it was about 500 people at prop somewhere in the region of that and talk about this terrifying but incredible journey that you had been on um
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: when there are so many conversations about mental health and and one of the issues we have with men with us with us boys we're not good at talking.
 
 

00:09:41

 
 Kristjan Byfield: We're not good at sharing. We're not good at being vulnerable. Uh you know, and and pretty much every bit of research shows that that is a major contributor to the issues that we see within men and particularly young men today. Um, what I wanted to touch on was that must have been absolutely terrifying up until that point and and doing that Christ I think I would have probably had to go and have several stiff drinks and then probably sleep for a couple of days to overcome the emotion of that day and and and I'm and I'm sure off the back of that I said we roped you into the boys club and and and uh delightfully got you to recount the whole story all over again and I'm sure this has prompted a lot of messages, but also a lot of very complex conversations with people. I'm sure you've had people confide in you and everything else. I wanted to talk to you about um what it's how you've kind of felt since unburdened yourself. I don't think is the right word.
 
 

00:10:51

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Um but since you shared um since you shared that that experience with everyone, what what has the last year or so been like as the as you know as that's kind of bedded in and the dust has settled a little bit? Um you know do you feel good about it? Do you regret it? You know are there unexpected things that have that have come out as a result of it?
Chris Webb: Um, I think that I certainly don't regret it. Um, and um, I know I'm okay to swear on the podcast because I listen to a few episodes and work one and obviously lots of swearing from Russell.
Kristjan Byfield: You are absolutely Interestingly
Chris Webb: So, I'm okay. I was f****** s******* myself before I went on stage most definitely. Um, and I'm a big fan of kind of rehearsing things and making sure you kind of know it off by heart. So, you know, it's all about kind of the amount of work you put into the actual event. And I remember printing off every single word, you know, on very big letters on a A4 bit of paper literally so I could just read it verbatim because I thought to myself, if I think I remember any of this, like I'm in trouble.
 
 

00:11:52

 
 Chris Webb: And I remember
Kristjan Byfield: doing that doing that process. Did you feel that like rehearsing it over and over almost like a speech or or you know a line from a play almost? Did you find that in a way that kind of helped you separate yourself a little bit from the raw emotion of it?
Chris Webb: Yep. I think yes. And I think that I'm I try and be fairly philosophical about these things. I thought to myself, okay, what's the difference between me doing well here and me not doing well on stage? And me doing well on stage is just reading what I've written in front of me and reading my best possibility. Outside of that, there's not really much I can do. You know, I've written what I've written. It kind of resonates with people. or it doesn't resonate with people. The only thing that could really go wrong is that I stumble my words or I miss a page out or whatever happens sort of thing. So I thought to myself, the only thing I need to focus on is reading the words out that I've written down on a piece of paper as well as I possibly can do.
 
 

00:12:38

 
 Chris Webb: Outside of that kind of what else can I do sort of thing and I and I try to worry about these things as little as I possibly can do within reason because I'm a big fan of you know if I said to you now you Christian I want you to go on stage in front of a thousand people you'd be thinking oh crap like if I was like dragging you down said let's go. you would have any time to think about it. You'd be like, "Right, we're here. Let's do this." And you'd probably be bricking yourself on stage, but you only be bricking yourself once. Whereas, if you like, if I said to you six months in advance, "Oh, Christian, you get on stage, mate, speak in front of a thousand people."
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, no.
Chris Webb: You'd be like, you'd be exactly you you'd be what call like being punched twice.
Kristjan Byfield: No. Put me on the spot. Absolutely.
Chris Webb: So, you're like you're punching yourself because you're like, "Oh, I'm really nervous about it. What
 
 

00:13:15

 
 Chris Webb: if it doesn't go very well? What if I trip up? What if I sneeze?" Whatever. And then you actually have to do it anyway. So, as much Oh yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And not just that, with your topic, you must have wrestled with what the f*** have I done? Why have I agreed? There must have been those moments, right?
Chris Webb: Yeah. There was a there was a there was a slight surprise in my side because I think obviously Toby and Megan did a lot of the organizing work there and I thought to myself at some point they asked me what I talked about because they just messaged me saying Toby mentioned me saying hey mate hope broke K doing prop X this is what it's about. Do you want to be into it sort of thing and I was like yeah great got a good topic for it and that was it. So they never came back to me and saying what are you talking about or what's the what's the subject or anything like that.
 
 

00:13:51

 
 Chris Webb: So I was like, "Okay, well, yeah, you're not going to ask, I'm not going to tell sort of thing." So I think it was a bit of a surprise for Toby and Megan as well when I kind of jumped on stage and talk about what I spoke about. So I think for me it was just about focusing as much as I possibly can do. Now the one thing I was crystal clear about with the guys who are setting up the stage is I spoke to them quite a lot and I was like just be absolutely clear there's going to be a podium. There's me a podium right here that I can stand behind because literally I knew you know generally when I talk on stage even if it's about estate agency even though I know my stuff and you'll be very well
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I need something. Yeah.
Chris Webb: pushed to catch me out when it comes to this sexy side of things even still the adrenaline in my body my hand will shake automatically even if I know all my stuff.
 
 

00:14:29

 
 Kristjan Byfield: If you're not nervous, you don't care. If you're not nervous, you don't care.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: And that's me talking my old actor brain. You know, you always worried if an actor was like, "Yeah, you like you knew they were going to go on and give a s*** performance because, you know, you you only worry if you care. Oh
Chris Webb: Yep. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So I knew that I would my hands would be shaking anyway. And you know that if you've got a piece of paper in your hand, it makes it even a shaking hand. You can hide a shaking piece of paper.
Kristjan Byfield: my god.
Chris Webb: It's like, you know, it like makes it such a bigger thing. You actually see this bit of paper flapping away and you're trying to read it and it's a bit of a car crash from there. So I was quite open with the guys said, "Look, I need a podium because I'm literally going to plant one hand on the left side, one hand on the right side. I'm
 
 

00:15:08

 
 Chris Webb: not letting go of it for 15 minutes. Like I'm literally just going to read this, talk, let go of one hand, turn the page, grab a hold of it again. So if you look at any picture for me at Propex, I'm holding on to that podium with all my mic.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, if there's no podium, I'm not going
Chris Webb: I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Because I would be walking around flappy bit of paper and it would be 10 times harder. So I was quite specific about that. The the biggest thing that surprised me and actually I spoke to Rob Brady about this afterwards because obviously Rob did a talk just after about men's mental health as well. And you know, as soon as I got off stage, um Toby very kindly, because he didn't know the subject, said, "Oh, we're doing a book signing for Chris and he's down the front and give him 20 quid and he'll, you know, he's donated the books. 20 quid goes to charity. Um, you know, nice thing to do sort of thing." And
 
 

00:15:46

 
 Chris Webb: literally, I got off stage and Tobra was like, "That was amazing. By the way, you're downstairs in like 30 seconds time. So, you like run, you literally run down, you got no time for crying or recovering or, you know, anything like that to like, you know, you'd run downstairs and start selling some books sort of thing." So,
Kristjan Byfield: It's not going to digest what you just Christ.
Chris Webb: um, but within, I would say the space of four minutes, I reckon I'd been hugged by 10 different men, which is a bit of a weird sentence to say out loud. And every single one of them was like, you know, I went through something similar, or I lost my partner, or I lost my friend, or I lost my brother. And it was amazing how from, you know, me standing there going, "Oh, I'm the only one who's gone through this and I'm the only person who's going to be talking about this." to within literally minutes of me getting downstairs people going, "Oh my god, when you said about that, I felt like that and oh my god, my friend did this and and the conversation with Rob, I was like, excuse the expression, Rob, but I was like, what the f*** do I say?" Like
 
 

00:16:37

 
 Chris Webb: people people coming to me like, "Oh, I I you know, my brother killed himself." And I'm like, "Oh s***, like that's really bad, mate." But then I was like, "Rob, like Rob's obviously does lots of mental health stuff, so he's kind of a bit more um seasoned, should we say, with this sort of stuff." And I was like, Rob, I was like, "I haven't got a clue." Like I feel like I've been throwing the deep here, mate. I feel like I kind of like shared my story and everyone's kind of coming to me and saying, "Oh, let's talk about this, Chris." And I'm like, I've only just shared my story, guys. Like, I'm not very like everyone kind of like not jumping me, but like, yeah, I'm I'm in no way an expert in I'll tell you what I'm an expert in and what I'm not an expert in. And I'm
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not a counselor. I'm not
Chris Webb: in no way an expert in men, mental health, or mental health at all.
 
 

00:17:11

 
 Chris Webb: But it was a really um surreal, nice, terrible, whatever it may be experience to have these people come up to me who are just like, you know, didn't know anything. didn't didn't couldn't couldn't say their first name, couldn't tell their surname. I know they were an estate agent probably at Propex and that was it. And it was like hire me, huge hug sort of thing, not even any chance. So that was a real sort of surprising moment with me with how many people actually resonated with that message and also a little bit depressing at the same time because I'd kind of I'd rather it was just me and I was like this is what I went through and they're like, "Oh my god, Chris, I've got no idea what you're talking about." But it was um worrying slashreassuring slash whatever you want to call it that so many people came to me afterwards like oh my god like I went through something similar two years ago five years ago my cousin's going through that like all this sort of stuff and I was like well actually this is pretty amazing in the grand scheme of things and and it didn't stop there I had lots of people reach out to me on social media and send me messages via like LinkedIn and Instagram etc um and you know lovely lovely words from various people just saying how the story sort of resonated with them and kind of talked through their own journey
 
 

00:18:12

 
 Chris Webb: so it was really um eye opening I feel like I shared a lot, but then a lot of people kind of shared back to me, which is absolutely amazing.
Kristjan Byfield: I know that talking thing is a really important part you know you it's an interesting thing that you said you know instantly there were people who started sharing fragments of stories or statements with you um and you know it comes back to talking you know a common thing I unfortunately have heard lots of these stories Um, but there is a general commonality. Um, and it feels like there was a similar commonality with your partner at the time, which was those close to around them had no idea.
Chris Webb: Yep. Yeah, she is.
Kristjan Byfield: I had an inkling that, you know, little bit frustrated or maybe a bit, you know, something, but nothing of the scale of the severity of the situation. Um and it's it's fascinating that it you know it comes back to that talking thing. It comes back to you know um as we know you know suicide is the is the primary cause of death for I think is it men under 40 um or even 45. for me.
 
 

00:19:22

 
 Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: It's absolutely bonkers. And yet there is still very little open, honest, candid, detailed conversation about it because as guys, we're just not very f****** good at it. But what we are good I think for guys we're we're worried that we'll share something and either the people the people that we're sharing it with will have absolutely no concept of experience of what we're talking about and we'll think we're batshit crazy or that somehow it emasculates us as men whatever the f*** that. Um and somehow by by being vulnerable um and yeah sharing that it somehow causes um difficulty and I think you know you you touched on it as you said that these people start saying things you're like my god I'm not a mental health professional and interestingly those that was a very very big conversation we had before we launched the boys club um you know headed up by Ben you know myself Toby Martin Spencer Uh Daniel, we've all kind of been bubbling around the background from the offset. And you know, I think Ben crystallized it very early doors.
 
 

00:20:35

 
 Kristjan Byfield: He was like, "Right, we need to be very f****** clear on what we are." And we are not a mental health service. We are not professionals. We are not experts. We are we are not here to offer specific guidance or tools or caping coping mechanisms. we are, you know, and we landed on the fact that we wanted to try and create a safe space uh where people can share stories and experiences that have impacted their lives. And the at the very extreme measure, we've got stories like yours. I think I did the very first one and I I talked about when we got targeted um the year before last uh by a far-right group about our pride window display. Um, and you know, we had death threats and all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff going on. Uh, not to mention some of the some of our industry uh celebrating our apparent demise and imminent imminent closure of our business.
Chris Webb: You tend to find out your Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I hate this.
Chris Webb: You find out who your friends are.
 
 

00:21:43

 
 Kristjan Byfield: We're still here.
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, but no, what's what's been really interesting is I think and and and so far it's worked. you know, we wanted to do more. But one thing that's come out there is every story that's been shared um over days and weeks following as people have digested it because sometimes some see it live and others find time to to join the dip into the group and kind of catch up with what's happened. And the nice thing that happens is every time someone shares a story, there are messages like you said of, "Oh, f******." Yeah, me too. I've been through that. Or I went through something similar. I faced those same emotions. And and every single time there is that common theme of I thought I was the only one. I didn't know who I could talk to. I didn't know I could open up. I wasn't sure what people would think. Um I can't comment on on how women think about this, but there is also a very tight allocation also to career.
 
 

00:22:46

 
 Kristjan Byfield: You know, a very common thing I say I've I've heard people share stories with me in person at events. They kind of taken me aside and go, "Oh, cut," you know, and they kind of go, "Ah, part of me wants to share it with the boys club and but part of me is worried." And when I go worried about what, you know, the group's really friendly, you know, no one's judgmental and they're like, "Yeah, but you know, I'm this position in this business and you know, what will my staff think? What will the other people on the board think? what will my customers think? Um there is so much concern um over other people's reactions to things that we've been through. And I think if we can all just get past that fact that you know the vast majority of things we go through, we we're far from the first person to go through it and we're sadly in some cases we're far from the last person that's going to go through it. So, you know, one one common thing that comes through with all of these stories of um overcoming whatever it is that that is is thrown in your path in life, other people have been through it.
 
 

00:23:57

 
 Kristjan Byfield: You know, chatting to Dan Men yesterday about his book he's done all about his very overactive, very like often negative brain that he has going on in it. um you know and he was saying the fascinating thing was he again he thought he was the only person whose brain worked like that. He was the only person thought they had that constant negative voice in the brain. Um, and it was only when he made a decision to write the book, I kind of spoil I mean, you'll come out after after the episode. That's fine. But the the fascinating thing was he kind of um he mapped out the 15 chapters of his book and he came up with the titles. So, he knew exactly what each chapter was going to be. But then really interestingly, he said he started having chats with his kind of circle of friends and people and talking about it, you know, and he he'd tell them a little bit the layout. And he said every single conversation he would go through and he would get to a particular name of a chapter and the friend would go, "Oh yeah, that's me."
 
 

00:24:59

 
 Kristjan Byfield: And he said categorically everybody he spoke to when he went through that list at least one chapter they'd go, "Yeah, that's me. My
Chris Webb: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: brain does that." And
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: for Dan, you know, he he's very open. He didn't write the book for anyone else. He wrote it for himself. He wrote it as a way to kind of put pen to paper and kind of take ownership of this new position he's taking with the voice in his head. Um, but much like you know any of these revelations when we when we talk about stuff that we go through, it's astonishing how many people are going through something similar or have been through something similar or will go through something similar.
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: So yeah, Christ talking is
Chris Webb: Well, I think you Yeah, I think that you talk about, you know, careers and I think that, you know, estate agency in its in its purest form, but it doesn't lean itself fantastically to sort of the world of mental health because, you know, you have somewhat some power of control over your business is external.
 
 

00:26:02

 
 Chris Webb: So, you might go on a valuation, think you absolutely smash it. They love me. They think I'm brilliant. We our kids are called the same name. They play football at the same time. And they're like, "Yeah, yeah, but it's going with someone else now." Yeah, but they did it for 1%. And you're like, and that's like a a bit of a, you know, I thought I thought we're getting all right. And so I think that you automatically have those sort of highs and lows in your business.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Chris Webb: You know, day by day, yeah, great. I smashed that valuation. I got on the market, they absolutely love me, same pitch, next valuation. Oh, they absolutely hated me and they went with someone else. And you're like, you know, is it me? Is it them? So I think that, you know, you are in a business where you are the public face of it. And lots of times when it's going well, it's absolutely amazing.
 
 

00:26:36

 
 Chris Webb: And when it's going terribly, you feel like you're kind of on the far line. So, and some of that is within your control, but some of that also is outside your control as well. you know, it might have gone well, not gone well to any no fault of your own, but you kind of have to suffer the consequences of it. And so when people say to you, you know, how's your business going? You're like, well, you know, not great or it's going really well. But, you know, in that situation, but that can change three times in a day. You know, I've had I've had clients of mine who will phone me first in the morning be like, "Oh, Chris, I'm having a terrible day today, mate. It's
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Chris Webb: awful. I don't like doing my work anymore. I've had enough of this. I'm going to quit." Sort of thing. They phone me at four o'clock and be like, "I love this job."
Kristjan Byfield: The best day of my life.
 
 

00:27:12

 
 Chris Webb: Yeah. Literally. and you're like it just changes like the weather sort of thing. So it doesn't you know there there's a lack of consistency in the estate entity world where you kind of you throw yourself out there you throw your marketing out there your face out there whatever it may be out there and then you're kind of hoping some people catch it and when that comes in that's amazing. When people drop the ball and it doesn't work out it feels terrible but the agents deal with that day in day out. So it's very um you are slightly open to the public on that side.
Kristjan Byfield: So I think you know I think that leads us into another kind of area of topic I wanted to talk about and I and I this this felt like from your talk like this is quite a big part of the struggles that you had is this framing of success. Um, and I think we live uh in a world now where there is ever greater pressure, right? We have greater inequality than ever.
 
 

00:27:58

 
 Kristjan Byfield: We have these ridiculous billionaire entities displaying the most insane success the world has ever seen. Then you've got your whole social media kind of catalog of truly successful people and then the other kind of 95% who just fake a successful life or or rather fake give the impression of a successful life whatever that
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: may be. Um and then you know amplified on top of that we've got cost of living crisis you know all sorts of things and I think um you know I think at the it feels like at the moment almost more than ever before people need to be really thinking about what is success you know what is what is what is your personal um what what do you define personally as as achieving success? Um, and I think it's really important that as individuals we we do our best to do that and be honest with ourselves because all of us you know we all grow up and whether we want to impress or
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: make our parents proud or you know siblings, mates, whatever it is influenced us who whatever whoever it is you feel you owe something to that you somehow want to prove something to.
 
 

00:29:29

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Um and very quickly, if you're not careful, um the dogged pursuit of what you think is success a can can just break you down in pieces trying to pursue something. But B, if you're not careful, you can end up getting to your success, your point of success, and realizing that actually you don't want any of it.
Chris Webb: Yep. And I think that's pretty much, you know, in a nutshell kind of the journey I went through. So I kind of followed the path that I was kind of supposed to in the grand scheme of things. So that was, you know, that that journey we talked about right at the beginning from junior negotiator to, you know, national performance director. That was kind of the path that was laid out in front of me. And actually when I got to that stage I was like oh it's not actually sunshines and rainbows here in any way shape or form and you know I had a well still have but had a nice house had a nice car went on holidays twice a year sort of thing had you know spare cash in the grand scheme I yeah 100% you know good-looking girlfriend all these things that you on the external you're like oh my
 
 

00:30:29

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Hey,
Chris Webb: god like Chris is absolutely smashing all and the thing that I felt pressured to is is for everyone to look at me and go oh Chris has got it nailed is because that that that matters so back then. That matters so much to me. People look at me like, "Oh, Chris has got it sorted. He's got the house. He's got a car. He goes on holiday every 10 minutes. All this." Yeah%
Kristjan Byfield: but again I I think this is a very manly trait as well.
Chris Webb: 100%.
Kristjan Byfield: This belief that we have to constantly give this impression that we've got it all figured out, that everything's on track, that, you know, we've got this, it's fine. You know, it's
Chris Webb: 100%. And and within three months or two and a half months, I had quit the job that took me probably 15 years to get. I had sold my lovely BMW which I still would regret but it's such a nice car but I sold my BMW um and housewise have been rented out.
 
 

00:31:19

 
 Chris Webb: So all the things that I spent all that time and you know 10 20 years sort of building up to they were gone within you know a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. And we sold all of that stuff and bought a 1999 plate three and a half ton motor home. um as you do, but when you got you got to worry about the market for motor homes when you're doing a a straight swap from a nice four series BMW to like a 20-year-old banger of motor home, you
Kristjan Byfield: Now you're talking my language.
Chris Webb: got to worry about the market there. They Yeah, they never go down in value apparently. Um we spent the next three months traveling around Europe in a motor home and then got back from that and then we spent the next nine months in Asia which we got engaged on kind of like the last week before we came back. Um, and you know, since then I've been very um, I don't know, conscious and matter of fact. Now, I still probably struggle with it a bit.
 
 

00:32:09

 
 Chris Webb: If you look on my social media today, you'll see lots of smiley pictures of Chris and giving advice and nice picture of me walking down the street and lot bits and pieces, but I try as much as I possibly can do to do like this is good, this is bad, this went a bit s***, but this is kind of what it is. I try and be very realistic with people kind of at the same time.
Kristjan Byfield: It's true, isn't it? Because also like social media for us as professionals, it is part of our channel. And you know, I touched on the thing earlier.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh, what will clients people say? You have to find that balance. Um because we're not mental health professionals. we're not, you know, you're not trying to carve a career out of some sort of social media personality around that area of expertise. So, look, I think, yeah, it's interesting. I think um I've made quite a conscious effort like like you said not to do it too often but when when I have those s*** days and whether that's a s*** day that happens to me or I just wake up and you know it's one of those days but I just um I try and be candid and open about that.
 
 

00:33:07

 
 Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: I think what's been really interesting is is the the few times I do it, what is lovely is in every single instance, a there's some really lovely comments put on, but in every single instance, I have had one, two, three, four, five people within about an hour of the post going up reach out, call, text, WhatsApp, whatever. Dude, you okay?
Chris Webb: Yeah. Yeah. We had um Mega 18 on our podcast about six months ago, I think it was, and she was talking about the time in her career where obviously it's great on social media when you're doing well and when you're, you know, getting promoted and we've just sold this many houses or rent this many like it's amazing, everyone loves you sort of thing. And then Megan was like, "Yeah, then I lost my job." and I actually had to come on social media and be like, "Yes, I've lost my job." And this is kind of what's happened. So, it's super easy to say like, "Oh, it's going really well and I'm listing and selling properties and I'm getting promoted."
 
 

00:34:00

 
 Chris Webb: But when sort of s*** hits the fan and you're like, "Yeah, I've just been lost my job or I've been made redundant or I've just had a change of career." That's where it kind of really takes the coonas to come up and say, "Actually, this is what's going on." And the number of times that, you know, I've talked to people who have done posts like that and the people just, you know, as exactly as you said there, who have gone out the woodwork on everything right, mate? What can I do to help sort of thing, you know, let me connect you with so and so? let me put you up a business. Oh, you'll be perfect at this company. And people want to help what they can do. But I think the the natural inclination, which is, you know, 95 99% of all social media is like, I'm on holiday or I'm doing this or I've got a new car.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I'm smashing it.
Chris Webb: Yeah. So I I have this conversation with my clients all the time.
 
 

00:34:38

 
 Chris Webb: And you know, the biggest kind of change I've had probably in the last couple years or so is I've changed my mindset from being a consumer of social media to the producer of social media. And although you know social media wise we post twice a day on all platforms. We have a YouTube short, two YouTube videos a week, four podcasts per week, a bulk email every week, a LinkedIn newsletter every week. So we're we're pumping it out at quite an alarming rate. Um I would say I spend on average three minutes a day on social media.
Kristjan Byfield: Wow. Wow.
Chris Webb: I couldn't
Kristjan Byfield: And I' I've definitely done a similar pivot. I definitely, like you say, I definitely see myself as more a producer of content than a digesttor of content. I still have my moments. I will still have my my scroll sessions. Um, but I'm very quick. But anything kind of generally negative unless it's unless it's technical, unless it's talking factually about something, um, I block and remove stuff, you know?
 
 

00:35:32

 
 Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: I don't I don't want to hear the bad stories. I don't want to hear bad stuff. I want to hear what amazing things my friends and people I know have been up to.
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, maybe hear about some of the struggles they're up to as well, because you're not always up to speed with what's going on. Check in with them. Um, and then, you know, hear about amazing things. I love hearing about new scientific evolutions that have happened. All the, you know, all the scientific movements that are happening at the moment are incredible. Um, you know, I love hearing good news and and who doesn't love a sloppy animal video, you know.
Chris Webb: Oh, 100%. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Give me a service person coming back from being away for four years and meeting their golden retriever the next year. Like I I'll cry for that every other week.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like a a bear and a tiger being best mates.
 
 

00:36:13

 
 Chris Webb: Oh yeah. 100%.
Kristjan Byfield: That's another one of mine.
Chris Webb: 100%.
Kristjan Byfield: Different species of animal hanging out.
Chris Webb: Yeah. I think we need to look at it and go, you know, is is me scrolling social media is it serving me? And you know, the average person will look at social media for four hours a day. And you know, and that isn't that isn't the 15 year olds. That's people that are, you know, 40, 50, and 60. It's about four hours a day. Okay. So, we're not talking like, you know, the the whippers snaps effectively.
Kristjan Byfield: And again, as we know how the algorithms work, you know, what you engage with and and I think, you know, we're seeing very much a knock on effect of that right now.
Chris Webb: Yeah. 100%. Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: All this craziness going on in the country right now.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, a lot of it is because like you said, a lot of these people and and there's someone in my inner circle who is kind of in that matrix of just doom and gloom.
 
 

00:37:01

 
 Chris Webb: Yep. I I gave up the news a lot.
Kristjan Byfield: they engage with because it initially interested them, but now you you know I was in the other day and they're on their Facebook page and it is literally you scroll down it and it is literally horrendous story after horrendous story you know and it's like no wonder you're depressed about where this country is because you're literally sat in this like negative news funnel of cacophony of crap that just tells you that everything in this country is
Chris Webb: Yep. Yet.
Kristjan Byfield: broken and life is s*** and Yeah.
Chris Webb: Yep. Yeah, I gave up. I think I probably gave up watching the news four, five years ago, I would say.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Chris Webb: And I Yeah, I know.
Kristjan Byfield: Don't use I don't really read the newspapers unless there's some again if I pick up a newspaper I skim it for something particularly interesting. Maybe a bit of sport, something technological, a good news story that's come out of somewhere. But otherwise,
Chris Webb: Well, you can't you can't, as you said, you can't allow a lot of sort of I don't want to say toxic, but negative, whatever to say, stuff that doesn't make you happy into your life and then wonder why you're kind of like not in the place you want to be.
 
 

00:38:04

 
 Chris Webb: So, I would look at it, you know, be having a happy life. This is my own view on it. You can have your own view on how it may be, but my personal view is, you know, what what does a good day look like? And and for me, you know, a good day is, you know, meeting new people, helping people, and seeing new places. And so if I'm having as many days in a row where I'm doing those particular things, high five, Chris is having a good day. That that's literally it. So, you know, if it's leaning into those things, great. I'm all over that. So, you know, I'm very lucky that I've kind of now given myself a career or a job or, you know, made myself unemployable, whatever the official term is, where I can literally do that every single day. And so, I can, you know, travel around the country and if I want to and I can meet you every single day because you've given yourself the platform to do that.
 
 

00:38:43

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I think I think a lot of people lose sight of how much time we spend at work because it's something we have to do. You don't kind of contextualize it as such. It's I've got to go to work. I've got to go and do my 40 hours a week or whatever it is to pay the bills. turn up and you just kind of it's something I've got to do. I've got to have a job and I turn up to do the job and I do what's expected of me to some degree of possibility or success and then I come home to live my life. Um, the unfortunate reality of that is, you know, if you work an eight hour day and you commute an hour either side, that's 10 hours. And you factor in everything else. When you think the amount of of waking at engaged hours you spend at work with your colleagues versus the time over your career that you spend with your friends, your family, your loved ones, your children, the disparity is insane, right?
 
 

00:39:42

 
 Kristjan Byfield: The disparity is absolutely insane. And so people lose sight of the fact how important it is that you get enjoyment from what you do.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: And whether that is being involved in an organization that does something that you are proud or happy with, whether we've talked about whether that is achieving whatever success in your is your in your eyes, you know, whatever it is, I think we all have a duty to ourselves. And look, it's it's it's not always easy. It's not always possible because sometimes you've just got to go out and do you've got to do whatever job you can do.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: Pay the rent and keep a roof over your head and put food on the table. Um, but you have to keep asking that question. You have to keep nudging yourself because forcing yourself to turn up 5 days a week, eight hours a day to do a job at best you're you're you have no real feeling about it. Either way, at worst you hate. to work with people that at best you kind of get on with, at worst you despise and bully and tease each other, you know, to put yourself through that day in day out, month in, month out, year after decade, you know, it it's it's we've got to we've got to try and break out of that kind of apathy about it.
 
 

00:41:12

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, it's all right. It's a job. Keep trying to find those moments of joy. Keep trying to It might not be changing job. It might be just recrafting what it is you do or renavigating your role within the business or staying in the same sector but finding a company that that does things differently. You know, it's but I think you know a lot of us would go through life generally a lot happier if we just focused on achieving more joy at work.
Chris Webb: I think we're we're very, you know, say what you like about, you know, UK and welfare and whatever it may be. I think we're very lucky in the UK there isn't kind of that far to fall in the grand scheme of things. You know, my one of my friends lives in Nairobi and Kenya. And if you're if you're homeless over there, for example, like you've got a tough life. Like you are, you know, being beaten up twice a day and it's really really tough life. I think in the UK there's only so far to fall.
 
 

00:42:07

 
 Chris Webb: Like you're probably not going to be sleeping on the street because you go to the council and say, "Look, I've just broken up my partner or I've just been repossessed, whatever it may be, and they will house you very quickly." So there's only so far to fall in the UK, which I think is kind of there as a nice safety net. And I think that, you know, generally speaking, if your friends and family around you, you know, truly love you, they want you to be happy. So, one of my friends is a oil trader by by trade. I know boo hiss. Um, he probably earns 350 grand a year, I reckon, roughly speaking. So, really lovely guy. You know, he doesn't fash it too much. Um, but he's like, "Right, part of my 10 year plan is been an oil trader for 10 years, and once I finish that, I'll be a postman." And I'm like, "Fair play." He's like, "Yeah, by that point, I would have earned my money. I
 
 

00:42:46

 
 Chris Webb: don't have to work in London anymore. I'll just be a postman. I work for like six hours a day. Get up nice early, walking down the street, still the mail.
Kristjan Byfield: gets me out, gets me active, keeps me moving, meeting people.
Chris Webb: And I'm like, mate, fair play. Like, I don't care if you're going from a normal trader to a postman from 300 grand to 30 grand. I mean, as long as you're happy, I literally can give a monkey. Like, if you if that's your goal, go for it.
Kristjan Byfield: And interestingly, in in those super high pressure, high success jobs, that's quite a common story. You know, you hear that quite a lot, whether it's intended or or burnout forces it.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: But I think the the smart ones, like you say, are like, "Right, I got a plan. I'm going to the next decade is work." Like, my life revolves around work and it's going to be hard and it's going to be pressure and it's going to be at times horrendous.
 
 

00:43:31

 
 Kristjan Byfield: But at the end of those 10 years, I'm set for life.
Chris Webb: Yep. Yep. I remember meeting a guy. We had a developer who were working with and quite a long time. He was like, "Oh, the money guy is turning up." So, the guy who's funding all this is turning up. And he was buying he was building like, you know, five, six million pound houses. So, it was quite a lot of money. And obviously, if someone said, "Oh, the investment person's walking in." You would think it's going to be a 70-year-old white man, bit wrinkly, walking in a suit. This guy walked in and he must have been 29, flipflops, trucker hat sort of thing, American guy, made all his money on Wall Street, quit early, and now it's just like, yes, do I like. And I'm like, well, fair play, mate. You've had a plan, you start kind of away you go sort of thing.
Kristjan Byfield: Exactly.
Chris Webb: You knew what you're getting into and you come out the other side sort of thing.
 
 

00:44:12

 
 Chris Webb: So, I think, you know, there there is a time to knuckle down, but I think if that knuckle down turns into forever, then that's a different conversation. So I think that being happy in your workplace in whatever form that may be should be a really big priority in your life. And if you talk to your partner or family, you know, if you turn around and say, look, you know, I'm unhappy at work and I'm desperately sad. I would rather be doing this. It means I earn half the amount of money. I would hope that person would turn around and go that that's an easy choice.
Kristjan Byfield: will make it work.
Chris Webb: We'll make it work.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
Chris Webb: We go from two holidays to one holiday. What to no holidays? Like as long as you make it work, then that's the main thing.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, my my wife and I had a similar conversation when she was pregnant with our first kid. You know, we talked about um you know, living in London.
 
 

00:44:54

 
 Kristjan Byfield: We still rent. Um I've been renting in London now 25 years. Uh do some horrendous calculations what we spend around.
Chris Webb: Yeah. Don't Don't wear that one out. Don't wear that one out.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I um but you know, living on a single income is tough. Um but you know, we had this very open conversation when she was pregnant with with LV, our first kid. You know, she said, "Look, I want to do some part-time work because I want something." But she was like, "I want to be a hands-on mom until they go to school, until they go off to school. I want to be in their lives every day. I want to be part of it." That's not to say, you know, we don't have nursery or whatever, but you know, and and exactly like you said there, you know, the conversation was as we'll make it work for as long as we can make it work. Um, and you know, seven years in, we're still there because we timed it awesomely.
 
 

00:45:47

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Just as Elie was going off to school, we got pregnant, Haley got pregnant with the with our son, Arlo, and we start the whole cycle again. Um, and yeah, we've made it work. At times, it's been tough, but they're really important things. And I think again, children always make you crystallize it. I've I've uh I've shared this kind of anecdote a few times on different podcasts, but you know, I've I've I read a couple of things early doors. Can't remember whether it was when Haley was pregnant or when when when LD was very young, but around that time. And it was basically people who, you know, had done the kind of entrepreneurial thing, had built a big business, had done it for the family, um but had dedicated, as is often the case and is often needed, 10, 15, 20 years of their life. building this beast of a business to then go, "Tada! We're free. I've got my whatever 15 million pound exit and that's it. We're gonna live the life of Riley, you know." And
 
 

00:46:45

 
 Kristjan Byfield: they turned around to their kids to be like, "Come on, guys. What are we going to do?" And the kids were like, "Shut up. We're off out with our mate.
Chris Webb: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Who are you?" They
Chris Webb: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: had no relationship with their kids, you know? And they they built this thing about, oh, you know, when we get there, we'll be able to do XY Z. But but if you don't build those relationships, there is nothing to build on later on. And and actually most kids don't give a s*** about whether you live in a big house or a small house or drive a big car or a small car or a flash one. Sure, they might, you know, sure their eyes light up if you do something a little bit flashy with some children, but in the in the vast majority, it's you and your time that is so precious. And the message in those was, you know, that first 10 to 12 years of your kids' lives, you are everything to your kids.
 
 

00:47:28

 
 Chris Webb: Yes.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, you are literally the provider of all things, their joy, their happiness, their safety, their adventure, their their food, their shelter, you know, everything. Um, you don't get that back. You don't get that back.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: So, you know, we made that commitment of for us, you know, talking about what is your joy, what is your success? Um, our joy is seeing our kids flourish. Part of our joy is having what we hope is a very strong relationship with our children that is going to see us continue that through teens and into adulthood and beyond. Um and the battles and sacrifices and challenges that we face now, you know, we feel are absolutely worth it, you know.
Chris Webb: I think it's the mistake that I've made historically and I think many people fall into this track trap as well is they kind of fall into the trap of like someday like someday we'll take our kids away and say like I'll just do one more year of work and then we'll do that.
 
 

00:48:28

 
 Chris Webb: we'll just do one more just a little bit more money and then we'll get to s and so and um so from a from a personal point of view I had a little bit of a um cancer bullet dodge a little while ago I think no matter how you know um big or brave you are you get that letter from the doc saying you know you've got an appointment with a cancer unit you're like f*** that that one hit homes pretty quickly and um you know I remember going to my partner and I remember saying to her I know we're engaged sort of thing but I was like we need to get married like soon I was like I don't want this to be like a 10 year engagement or like a five year engagement I was like we haven't got forever let's kind of like let's get on with it like sooner rather than later because otherwise they're like oh even though both of us like oh we'll get married at some point but yeah it's fine we love each other we live together like we'll get married at some point as soon as that came to my front door I was like f*** like we need to get on with this like pronto otherwise Yep.
 
 

00:49:08

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, it often takes these scary things of these big events to bring it back into focus. But I think we need to try and try and get ourselves into a healthy mental space where you don't need something absolutely terrifying to go, you know, am I am I really doing what's happy? You know, like you said, want to get married? Let's get f****** married. Just do it. You know,
Chris Webb: Yeah. Well, what my partner's very good at. Um, she watches she's kind of fallen into a You talk about social media algorithms. She's fallen into a bit of a rabbit hole with regard to um advice from elderly people, I think, is probably the official term. Um, and it's kind of like Tik Toks, people who are 90 years old, 100 years old, and it's like, you know, what's the regret in your life? And so many of them are like, I wish I spent less time worrying about work. I wish I spent more time with my family.
 
 

00:49:52

 
 Chris Webb: And so we're kind of like instead of actually just watching that advice, actually trying to take it on board as much as possible. So, you know, if those people are saying, I wish I didn't work so hard, or I wish I, you know, turned my phone off at six o'clock or I wish I did so and so, you kind of like,
Kristjan Byfield: yeah.
Chris Webb: well, they've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. So, it' be a bit stupid of me to go, oh, no, they they don't know. They they don't know that.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, different generation. They don't know what as humans they're very similar.
Chris Webb: Yeah, that's exactly what do they know about it? They haven't got catchy. So, they Exactly.
Kristjan Byfield: You know, we don't really fundamentally change as creatures over time.
Chris Webb: So, I think 100%. So, I think that you got to look at what is your happiness in your life and what's going to make you kind of enjoy your life because you only get one kind of crack at it.
 
 

00:50:28

 
 Chris Webb: And, you know, I think that you might as well, you know, a go s*** or bust for for me. That's kind of my personal thing. I think myself, bugger it, you know, worst case scenario, if it all goes completely wrong, I'll go, "Mom, dad, I need to sleep on your sofa."
Kristjan Byfield: And what an amazing experience.
Chris Webb: And I love it. I got my my food get made, my laundry get done. Like, I'll be living the life. if I would like falling around my feet that is a for me that is a worst case scenario that is going what would happen and you know so for me I think to myself well the only real way up from there is up so why not swing for it as hard as I possibly can do so I think it's about looking at what's important to you what makes you happy and going how can I get more of those happy events in my life and also on the other side of the coin how can I take more of these sort of sad moments whether that's social media or the news or a depressing mate who always drags you down whatever it may be and go actually let's get rid of the bits I don't like and let's keep the bits I do like which sounds the obvious advice you can give somebody, but it's really hard
 
 

00:51:21

 
 Chris Webb: in your own life.
Kristjan Byfield: The advice often is obvious. You know, again, none of this is rocket science. We're all fairly simple creatures. Everything we've talked about in here, find your joy and, you know, frame what success is for you. And none of this is earthshattering s***. I mean, you you can get it out of a f****** fortune cookie or you could get out of a 300page self-guide book. fundamentally the core principles that drive us as humans and make us happy never really change.
Chris Webb: Yep.
Kristjan Byfield: Um, look Chris, this has been an absolute joy. Uh, I've absolutely loved our chat and that hour or just under an hour has absolutely flown by, but I feel like we've reached a really nice point. I think we've covered some really nice topics.
Chris Webb: I would agree. I would agree.
Kristjan Byfield: I think, you know, um, thank you once again like your chat. I I I loved the courage that you took to share on that stage. Um, well done.
 
 

00:52:16

 
 Kristjan Byfield: Thank you. Um, as as men, we need to be more brave. We need to we need to be more brave by being more vulnerable. Um, and that will happen through the support of people around us. Um, but also one another, reassuring each other that admitting that we're all rather quirky, foyable people who, despite appearances, have all sorts of s*** going on in our lives. Um, and that's okay. Is great.
Chris Webb: I think no matter what we we're all working we're all kind of blanking it. We're all kind of working out on our feet and that's absolutely fine. So no one's got it no one's got the winning formula quite yet. We're all kind of flagging it and kind of going from there. So I think that's absolutely fine for everyone to be in that place position.
Kristjan Byfield: Chris, thank you so much for your time today, buddy. And uh in person sometime soon.
Chris Webb: Pleasure. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Thanks so much, Christian.
Kristjan Byfield: Cheers, mate. Let's stop that
Chris Webb: Is that your outro
 
 

Transcription ended after 00:53:14

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