From Agency Leader to Industry Voice: Angi Cooney Unfiltered

In this episode of The Viking Chats, Kristjan Byfield sits down with the bold, brilliant and unmistakably real Angi Cooney - property industry veteran, cultural architect, former MD of C Residential, and a woman unafraid to speak her truth.

From building a beloved local agency brand from scratch to leading with compassion in a sector too often ruled by numbers, Angi has always done things differently. Now, having stepped away from the day-to-day of running a business, she’s reflecting on the highs, the lows, and the lessons - and sharing her views on what the lettings and estate agency world desperately needs to hear.

This episode is raw, insightful and full of truth bombs that will resonate with anyone who has worked in or around the property sector. Whether you’re a business owner, negotiator, property manager, or just trying to figure out how to survive and thrive in an evolving landscape - Angi’s voice is the voice you didn’t know you needed.

🎯 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✅ How Angi built one of the most respected independent agencies in her region
Angi shares how C Residential was born from a kitchen-table vision, grew through community connection and transparency, and became a local powerhouse by focusing on people, not just pipelines.

✅ The power (and pressure) of leading authentically
We explore how showing up as your full self as a leader builds trust, loyalty and results - but also brings challenges, especially in an industry still wrestling with ego, tradition and toxic behaviour.

✅ When it’s time to let go - and why that can be a power move
Angi talks candidly about the decision to step away from her agency, what it cost her emotionally, and how she’s now embracing a new chapter as a mentor, trainer and advocate for positive change.

✅ What today’s agencies get wrong about culture
From burnout to bullying, micromanagement to metrics obsession, Angi unpacks why many agencies still struggle to create workplaces where people genuinely want to stay - and what true culture-building actually looks like.

✅ Why fees and figures don’t define your business success
Angi makes a compelling case for purpose-led leadership - not as fluff, but as strategy. She explains how values like care, respect and fairness drive performance when they’re real (not just a poster on the wall).

✅ Her hopes for the next generation of property professionals
We dive into Angi’s passion for mentoring, her views on the skills that really matter, and why authenticity, emotional intelligence and resilience need to be core traits of tomorrow’s leaders.

💬 Why This Episode Matters

Lettings and estate agency are at a crossroads. There’s more regulation, more tech, more complexity - and yet too often, less humanity.

Angi Cooney stands for something different.

With years of lived experience, battle scars, big wins and bold choices, she’s a walking masterclass in leading with heart, operating with integrity, and being unafraid to say what needs to be said.

This episode isn’t about KPIs. It’s about what kind of leader you want to be, and what kind of business you want to build.

It’s for the owners questioning their next move.
 It’s for the managers trying to inspire.
 It’s for the rising stars looking for real role models.
 And it’s for anyone tired of the old playbook, ready to write a new one.

Transcript

Hi everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats podcast and I'm delighted to be joined today by Angi Cooney. Angi, how are you? Hello, I'm fine, I think, yeah, great. Now for those in the industry living under a rock who haven't come across the Coonster, tell us a little bit about you. Let's give an overview of your property adventures. So I'm 60, quite proud of being 60 to be fair. I'm pleased I made it. 60 and became an estate agent as most people do by accident. John Prudential Property Services as a youngster. There was about 20 something or other and became, I wasn't an estate agent to the beginning. I was a PA for one of the directors. Just fell into a estate agency and absolutely loved it. And then it just snowballed. I was absolutely in the right place at the right time. It was in the late 80s before you were born. and they were making, the housing market had absolutely yeah because you had that insane bond. My parents got slammed in that. So that had bombed and they just bought all these offices, they'd bought an office Prudential had near me and I said to my boss at the time can I go in from that office, had no experience to be honest and I just he said yeah so unbelievably I was able to and I think it's been well documented when they really, when the staff there I was going they all walked and the ones that you were going to run. Yeah yeah which is fine and then there's a whole backstory behind that. I was a PA for the director that ran all those and I was a bit of a tyrant and I think like most things you can let power go to your head and I was an absolute cow and there wasn't computers. Sometimes when you're young right - Yeah, particularly if you get a bit of power when you're young sometimes you don't know how to handle it. - Computers were just coming in, believe it or not. We'd got fax machines and all of this and it wasn't like it is now. So there was no HR really. (laughing) You know, bloody, bloody, anyway. So I met people and actually somebody called Diane Moore, Diane Moore Jones, she was Diane Moore then, who came with me on a whole big journey and naturally went with me with C. Res years and years and years and we just had a fantastic time. Anyway, fast forward around another business in the 90s and stepped away from that one for reasons I've talked about off camera and then decide well I got married on my kids and then took a bit of a break. Yeah, thought I'm going to be a mom really last that's really not me and set up a C residential when the kids were two and three and never looked back. Sold that business. So when was that? When did you start C-Residential? Because this is kind of the area that I know of. It is. So September, well, it's probably not, because no one really knew of me, but September 2002, we set up C-Residential. So two years before we started base. So we started base in 2004. Okay. September 2002, set up C-Res. Diane and me, and it was from my kitchen table. So we actually... Woodrow's unheard of in those days. So we then, you just talk about all these people that are the EXP talk, all these independent agents, well, yeah, I was one. Yeah. You know, that's what agents do. And then we got the offices in January 2003. Did you do it to get on RightMove? Because that was back in the day when, to be on RightMove, you had to have a registered office. No, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't do that. I'm not that. Because that was why we took an office early on. we weren't going to, we were going to go into like a service office building. Right move wasn't it? So I was like we don't need a high street, we don't need a shop front, we just need an office but those are in the days where right move were like no, if you want to be on right move you have to have a shop. I think I could sit there and pretend that that was behind it all but no, I just did it because I wanted it. Yeah. Because I truly believe in having a high street office. But I think also smaller regional markets I think a shop makes sense. in London. Absolutely, there was, yeah, yeah. 10 million people, was it 50 million tourists? A third of all estate and netting agents are in London. Yeah. Oh, I still find that stat. No. The will to rig. But I think high streets work differently in London. It does. Well, yeah, and I can only speak for the little area that I'm in, so we opened it January 2003, opened up Lettons in 2006 because we were selling like no tomorrow. We couldn't print it fast enough really. - What is bunkers at market? - Set the letting company, Diane ran that, very successfully. And then I sold that in 2019, relating to something. - So we met, I think just, 'cause you, did you win the big ester just before you sold that? - So, no, after. So basically, we have won esters every year we've entered since 2004. So then 2022 was our big ester, the one that I thought I'd retire on the big ester. Because then you and I must have met like a year before that. I'll tell you what happened Christian, I was there quite happy, my own little world in Rougeley, loving life and I did, loving it, just selling houses, just being Mrs. estate agent and then I came across Chris Watkin. Yeah. - The guy is a fascinating guy. So I've got me boots on and went along to Grant them and sat on a course he was running and met obviously the fabulous Chris at PBS. And I thought, - I mean, he's all right. - God, I love him. (laughing) So I obviously met them guys. And then I started to go, "Oh, is there a bit more?" So at the same time, I then rejoined the Guild because the Guild was very different than what it was years ago. So I was a member of it then and came out. I then joined the Guild again and it was all around the same time. And then all of a sudden, even though I'd consistently run all those esters, nothing had changed, the service was the same, still on goal, blah, blah, blah, blah, because I'd started to put myself out there, the business started getting noticed more. Then I was obviously social media blew up, didn't it? So then it just, it's just been mad ever since. So I'd say I've only been on the scene that everybody on everybody's radar really since 2020, 2020, 21 maybe. - Yeah, around five years. - And, but yeah, it's been phenomenal, but then I decided to, my mom died in the August of, God, what was it, two years ago? - And that hit you hard, you guys were really close. - Massive, massively hard. - You were super close. - And so then I re-evaluated everything and thought, you know what, I need to go when I feel I'm ready. I'm not ready to go because I truly love what I do. Love it, okay? But I didn't wanna go when I was the old duffer in the corner. - That's the thing, you don't necessarily wanna leave tired, broken and hating it, right? You wanna ideally be able to walk away. - And I was not getting to that. I didn't hate the job. I hated the fact that my mom wasn't there and the family element of it. My dad's still around, he's 19 months You know what? I'll go out when no one's expecting me to go out. Everybody was shocked because I got approached an awful lot. But I had to choose. I wanted to choose my time. I feel like Julia Robertson, Pretty Woman, I'll choose where, when. It was that really and I'm very happy and I'm very happy I did it. And do it on your terms. I mean you built, you know, you built a really strong business but strong local ties Super ethical very service orientated and I think it's that thing of You know when you sell You can't really kind of throw that all in the bin just just to get the highest price point No, it's not about money either. It's about because I I've been very vocal in I ran C residential and as a lifestyle Webs run it as a business. Yeah now who's right news wrong? There isn't it's just What you know and what you you feel you want to do I I ran it the way I wanted to run it and I loved it and they run it the way they want to do it And they love it too and I tell us who are the interesting so know that you're you are petitors but I saw a photograph with you in Inventory Hive. Yeah. Oh, in all competitors. No, no, no. But you know, in the same, yeah, in the same wheelhouse. And I was one of their first, Kelly and Richard only live up the road. Right. I love Kelly and Richard. And I was one, I love them. And I was one of their first clients to see Lettings. Amazing. So, you know, a lot of what Diane, Diane who ran the Lettings company, she's very, she's really good at what she does. So basically she crafted and decided how that was all going to look based on customer service. So yeah, so it's a funny industry because it's all people that you know and wheels within wheels that you you don't realize a little bit further down the line. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, but I think it's nice you see but I mean you see the same people come through. I mean, you know, you've talked about the two Chrissies and like you said, Rich and Kelly with inventory hive and you know, And I just said we need to mention Matt as well, we can't leave him out. I mean... I know, but I need to mention Matt because I always just mention Chris. I mean more importantly maybe Michelle who runs keep those two clowns on track and runs the books. Got ya. Oh blimey, smashing the place up. But yeah, so obviously you know you wanted to find the right time, the right people you have and it's been really nice watching how you guys have done that because quite often you see these things and it's a press release in the industry media. But I didn't see the point in, I mean obviously PBS did that fantastic promotion video which has just, it went viral, it's great and it was the right tone and it was the right tone and absolutely the right thing because they're facelty independent and of course I was too. So yeah, it just blended in nicely. - I mean, it's something, I find it really fascinating in the acquisition space that, you know, and I know quite a few people who have sold up, and particularly when you're selling to the big boys, you know, there is quite often this very like, you can't tell your team, you can't tell your clients, and on the day it's done, that's it. - I tell you what was really, I tell you what we did. - And I'm like, that's a bit, on one side, I kind of get it, But then I'm also like, you know, we all, even the big boys, we all talk about how properties are people business and its relationships and all this sort of stuff. - Let me tell you what I think. - And so if you really believe that, - Yeah. - To suddenly go, oh, the leader of the business is no more. They're gone. You can't talk to them. You can't call them. They can't talk to you. - So pause that. - Yeah. - Lettings very similar to that. Because obviously you've got long contracts. - Long services. - So with my lettings team, that was a shock. - Yeah. - Because seeing how that affected them, and it was December the 31st, I sold my lettings to hunters. - Yeah. - And it was that, 31st of December. And that in itself, I mean, they found out, I think, that our Christmas do just before. So it was very, not the best way in my opinion. - Yeah, I mean, I know, I get that it's delicate. - With sales it was different. - Yeah. - Because literally it didn't matter. So I sat, when I'm saying it didn't matter, there wasn't the contracts involved, like there is a-- - It's more transactional. - So what I did with the lettings, I'd always said to the team, "I will tell you when I'm looking, "or when I've been approached, "or when somebody comes along." And you know, we loosely talked about it for a few years 'cause I had other people interested. And then I just met Nick and Simon at a estus do, actually going down to the estus do. I thought, "Do you know, I really like them?" And actually would I? And it was one of those. I bet you never would. And I went, "Well, try me then." So from that, then I told them to come in and talk to the team. Then I said to the team, "What do you think?" And they went, "Actually, yeah." And I went, "Well, we're gonna do it then." - And how great for them? Now, it could have gone the other way. The team could have been like, "No, thanks. You're all right." But then, yeah, if you value your team, you don't kind of want to sell them down the river anyway. They are and they I ever I've had lots of people with me over 20 or years but that team in particular I just thought they were fantastic and obviously it showed because we won the ultimate prize for me which was the Estes in 2022 so yeah and that's it so then it's come full circle I'm now back doing talking to people So how's it been? I mean, you know, I talked a bit about this. I, I, the bit I find fascinating is that, that moment of, of walking away. Because, you know, we all talk about it. There are babies, they, they consume our lives. I mean, I think, you know, I literally Christian sat there and thought, what the hell have I done? Not from a, oh, God, to really miss it. Well, I've been no routine, routine's the thing. Yeah. Right. So my friend is, she'd just retired from nursing. She came around to see me. She said, she round me. She said, "You okay?" And I said, "Yeah, I'll come around for coffee." And she said, "Right, you're feeling how I did." Because she's, I actually had her on my podcast. And because she was the the lead nurse for the NHS in the Western Midlands when COVID was on. And obviously that destroyed her, so she decided to leave and she was lost. So she said, you know, you're going to need a routine and you need to just throw yourself into something. So I'd already been dabbling with a few years before that with Naja Rizna about whether I should go to public speaking. And then when I really examined that, I thought it's not for me. I'm not structuring enough. I don't want to do that. I want to be able to talk what I like doing is talking. So then I thought I'm going to do a podcast. But I think you always struck me as someone who likes doing and doing stuff well. And you don't mind talking and sharing about how you do that. Wow. But you're not the sort of person who will stand on a podium in front of people and go, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you how to do, how to do whatever. That's not me. And also, I know that's not a criticism of speakers. There's a lot of consultants out there at the moment. And I obviously have got my own consultancy company, a consult about what I have no idea. But I've set that up anyway on the side. And I don't want to do that. That is just not me. I'd much rather work with agents together. Right? Do you know I think money is in our industry, being a consultant for consultants. I know. And then I thought I'm going to be a mentor. I'm mentoring for agents together. So you're doing agents together. - Yeah, and that's kind of re-vigor now under Vicky. - I really did that a few years ago, but I love that, okay? And that's what I, it's my forte, to be able to go and help people, love it, one to one, love it, love it, love it, okay? Then I thought I'm gonna do it for retirees, my podcast, I'm gonna do podcasts for retirees, call it Now What, 'cause it is that. - I love that, but I love that. When I saw you launch it and start it, Now What, and like I said, I'm fascinated about this thing, you know, when I see people leave. - No, it was one of them. - We, you know, we let, yes. (laughing) That's the one I call my one. Fuck with it, it's probably more like. But yeah, I'm fascinated by, you know, whenever I see anyone in our sphere, but extended, you know, good entrepreneurs, you get consumed by the business, whether it's whatever it is that drives you, chasing that profit, chasing that growth, building the culture, changing the market, whatever it is, you immerse yourself so completely in it. - And, you know, I've used the term here, rota zero, and that's how it felt. - Yeah. - It's a bit like, you know, when you win the Estes and you feel completely on top of the world and you can't believe it, reality kicks in 'cause the next day you've got a Jesus of a hand over there and you've got somebody in Yamcha going to clean the toilet. One of them. It's similar to that. So you can imagine that feeling, similar to that. But I laughed because I put something on LinkedIn. I've gone and bought a printer. 'Cause it's stupid as it sounds, Christian. I've never had a huge team of people that did loads of stuff for me. So I was never like that. But I've got an IT company behind me. I've still got them, but on the smallest scale. But an IT company behind me. So my printers were bigger than the bloody desk, right? In that office that did everything. And I've got a little Epsom printer that I'm giving away free if anybody wants it. I bought a few months ago from Argos and I'm having to go along with choose myself and then try and get it all linked in and I can't do it. I'm like, that's why I was getting rid of it, not selling it, getting rid of it. It's silly things that you take for granted that you've had to come down to earth a bit more on but the routine is the thing that's now what I'm structured, I need structure and routine. - And so what kind of routine, what kind of is your routine now? - Get up in the morning at five - But I've always been that. - Me always, always and anyway. - Always a five, always a five, I've got. I go boxing. - Nice. - So I go boxing from quarter to seven to half, yeah quarter to seven to half past seven. I'll then go back, take the dog a walk for four miles at least, so then I get back by about nine o'clock and ready to go. - That's a good morning workout. - And then, yeah but I don't think it's enough because I'm a bit, I'm obsessive, I'm an obsessive person. So I feel I need to do more now, but that's on me, not anyone else. And then I just see how the day goes. My dad's 90, I go and see him, see my brother. - And they're all fairly local. - And they're all local, yeah. I've just sold my house. So as we, I sold my house last Tuesday and I thought we've got shipping containers. I've got six shipping containers, I'm married to a hoarder. Six shipping containers on some land that we own, full of our stuff. and we're in a log cabin by some I call Blitfield Reservoir, which is a beautiful reservoir. I've rented that for a couple of months to give us some head space. So it takes me three seconds to clean the log cabin. - Amazing. - From that, I'm done. - Done. - I mean, I think, you know, we talk about, you know, we talk about entrepreneurs exiting. I think what people do in their later life, I think it's fascinating, you know, just generally so many people retirement. - I can't believe I can be called. - 'Cause I think with entrepreneurs, you have that, you focus your building stuff, even like-- - Do you consider yourself an entrepreneur? - No, I've never called myself. In my head, I've always said an entrepreneur is something someone calls you. - Yeah. - I don't think, you know, you just do stuff. When people have said that to me, I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm just a bloody estate agent from Ruechle. And that's how I view it. And I think, I mean, going back to even further than that, and I think on my very first podcast, I ever did with Chris Watkin, Aya was hungover. And I said to him, I'm just Angie Cooney, 14 years of age, working at the Cedar Tree Hotel in Ruechle, because I view it that it's exactly the same person. - Yeah. - It's about service. And, you know, people call me entrepreneurial. have no idea. I just go with what I think is okay. The podcast I'm doing till I run out of money because it's obviously self-funded. So I do a serious plug for anybody who wants to sponsor a podcast, get in touch. But I tell you what I quite like about that, talking to different people, not from our industry. Because my view is, there are people in this world and we don't know who they are, everybody, anybody, we don't know what they're going I've no idea and everybody goes through the same shit. So if I can just get anybody, anybody, everybody to talk to me about their story, it will just resonate. - Yeah, I'm constantly fascinated. Like you said, you sit down with anyone, you know, and you just get them to open up a little. - You don't know. - Once you pick under the surface and you just, oh, you know, I'm going through a couple of things and you're like, oh, you know, kind of like what? Thinking they're going to be like, oh, I can't decide go to Alicante or Tenerife for the holidays and they're like oh you know my dad's got a terminal cancer and my sister just lost a kid and you know okay you know in your job though you're like me okay so in your job you love come across people from all walks of life that have got life-threatening things going on or crap going on but you don't run away from it because there's agents you sit there and you're with them and your sound shoulders, shoulders sounds very pure, it's purest, but it's true. He's down shoulder to shoulder with them. And that's actually what I wanted to why I thought the podcast to be a great idea, because I'm not bothered about I will cry. I'll hold some of these hand and cry with him. And that's what there's just some fascinating people coming up. Well, we feel we feel us we feel a funny spot as agents, don't we? There's, there's the public perception of agents, the generic public perception of us all being shysters and you know money grabbers and whatever else but then you've got those bona fide relationships and we've got clients who can find stuff in us they haven't told their family you know we've got clients who come to us and they're like I don't know how I'm gonna tell my family or my partner or whatever else and they come to us first you know about super personal stuff and it's fascinating that level of trust. But that's because you are the whole of your team and I can only speak I only know three of you but just I'm gonna say the whole of your team. People gravitate towards you, people gravitate towards me Christian and it's something that I've realised during my late, later life that my parents you know my mom was the same, my brother's as a social worker or he was, and my sister's a nurse, retired as well now, but we're all that type of family that people will gravitate towards us. So I've decided to embrace that in this part of my life, 'cause I'm very into keep it, getting really into that now, and I'm gonna really constantly-- - And that's really important, 'cause you underpin that, and everything else I think kind of falls into place. - Well, cancer in my 40s, how do you stress to me in my 40s? can't see in my 50s and I thought, bollocks to that. I'm gonna be as fit as fucking towards my late 50s, getting into my 60s and I am and I'm really fit. So yeah, so that's what my whole thing now is, right, get as fit as anything, grow whatever we're gonna do in terms of myself and my husband with what we're planning with our holiday lodges and stuff like that because we're actually doing our own holiday lodges. And we're just gonna throw it where it goes. both my children in film and TV industry. I want to be able to sit there and go, and I'll give you an example, Lydia is the actor. So she said to me, who currently is tackling around Central London for Freddie's flowers for in the morning. I dropped off four o'clock this morning. - How did you do? - Oh, of course, she, that was not fun this morning. Bloody hell, that was mean. - It wasn't for what I was doing for, but I look at them and I think, well, my job now, I can be there as my mom was for me and my brothers and sisters. because I want to be that person. So I don't want to be the helicopter mom. I just want to be able to drop stuff and go with them. So she was saying to me, oh, I've got a gig in Oxford and I'm singing them and I went, that's great. I'll go around that there because I can just go and go. - Yeah, and that's lovely. I never really had that with my parents because I did the whole boarding school and we lived abroad. - My kids did. - So we moved to Singapore when I was five, Spain when I was 10. I had a boarding school from eight to 18. you know, and when I was home, yeah, of course, you know, Mum and Dad were there, but that was never really feasible. - But my kids went to boarding school, which is obviously why I was able to do what I did with the businesses, but I don't have a, they're not at boarding school, they're 27 and 28, right? - Yes. - So I want to be there for them now because with a blink of an eye, I know you've got Arlo, and I can never remember your daughter's name, but-- - LV. - LV, right? I want to call her Edie, and I know that's not right, but I see you on your on your socials and things with them. It goes within minutes and you know, I look at you and Ben Madden and all the people that have got them young kids. And I think just bloody be there for them because within minutes it goes. And I'm very lucky, picture would very, very lucky with my daughters because we're just really close knit and obviously my husband as well. And we just wanna be that you know, I wanna be that mom. We want to be those parents now supporting them now when they need us because boarding schools are a whole different. Yeah, I mean boarding school was great for me. I wouldn't send our kids to boarding school. I mean, Harlow might be alright, wouldn't work for LV. But no, it's really interesting. There was a couple of things I read around the time that Hayley was pregnant with LV or around that time anyway. And one of them was, I don't think he was an entrepreneur per se, he was a guy who ran a business or built a business. And kind of the things that we've talked about that you often hear, "I want to give my kids the things I didn't have, nice house, nice holidays," all this sort of stuff, stuff that you think matters. And he absolutely worked his ass off, was basically never at home, and then sold the business, you know, turn basically kind of turned up at home and was like, I'm home kids and his kids were 16 and 17 and they were like, barely know you dad. I have a different thing on that Chris, right? Because there was a thing about that which was be careful. Taking your point, be careful what you build it. Taking your point. My kids were two and three. They went to a small prep school, literally, of the road. So luckily it was from by an old family that are still friends in mind now. And it was very, very old. It had been in their parents and their parents, parents, 70-odd years, right? Fabulous, a fabulous, fabulous prep school. And they did boarding. So they did boarding if they wanted to, it was literally up the road. So instead of you doing your, you know, your drop offs and stuff, I would say, and it was all musical theatre as well. - That's the thing, they've got the best of both worlds. They got born in school, but you could be there for every match, every play, every performance. - At 13, they then went to Surrey, and that was fine too, because you know, whatever. It learned them independence. But now I just feel that in this time in my life and their life, we can give them things that, and I'm not into that. They never had mobile phones and stuff till they went to Surrey. Didn't have their ESP, or any of that. - Spoiling or privilege, but there's nothing wrong with being able to make things easier for your kids. - See, I'm from a real working class family in Ruesli. My mom and dad came from Ireland. So everything I've done in this kid's school was all around that area. So that when I was working, they would have my mom and dad as the base. So they had the best of every world. So, but my husband had the same experience that probably the entrepreneur guy did with his dad. So didn't know them because they were always at school. And that's the thing, support network and stuff. So like, you know, for me, it rung bells with me because I loved my born and school education suited me down to the, you know, I loved it. I loved it, you know, literally from the get go. I remember the first night lying in a dorm, 13 kids in a room, one big room, all in beds, 12 of them crying. And I was just lying there being like, wait, why are you crying? It's like no adults. - Yep. - I mean, no adults, there's obviously teachers, but like no parents, I was so excited. And that never really changed. But the other thing that I do, and I can't remember if I read this somewhere, but I think this is also partly just where my brain works. You know, LV turns eight in a week. - That's incredible. - Like, A, where the fuck has that gone? - Absolutely. - Like, where has that eight? And really kind of, it's more like nine years, right? 'Cause the moment the pregnancy starts, you start on that journey. So where the fuck has that gone? But I frame it in, you know, she's about to turn eight, she's halfway to 16. - I know. - You know, she's a third of the way to being 24. And when you frame it like that, for me, I'm like, that eight years has gone like that. So the next eight years is gonna go like that. - I, let me tell you though, I wouldn't have changed it. - No. - Because I don't think you should ever look back. I never look back. Don't regret it. - You can't fucking change it. - You can only go with it. You can only do the best you can. You're not born parents, sorry, you just have to learn. You are what you know, you are what you learn. - And again, when you look back, that's not the same. You're not the same person you were then. It's not the same set of circumstances. You don't have the choices. You think you did. - I've enjoyed every single part of it. And I think that, you know, I still think of my kids of 16, I really do, but it's what it is, but I enjoy them now and they enjoy me, I think. - But the other fascinating thing, you touched on this earlier, I'm fascinated by how people imagine themselves. Like you said earlier, there's part of you that's still a 14 year old working at the hotel. Like in my mind, I still think I'm a 25 year old. I'm still, you know, we've started this for about a year and still winging it and figuring stuff out and just kind of going with the flow. - Yeah, but do you know what? Always be that person. Because I think the moment you start to take yourself seriously and think you're Billy Big Bollocks is the day that really, because that's not me, I said earlier on about egos, and you mentioned everybody needs to have an ego. - The difference with it, well, I mean, ego is an interesting word, but I often have conversations about the difference between confidence and arrogance. - Okay. - And this comes out, Anne and I talk about this a lot, the first time Anne met me working together, it was not love at first sight. She thought I was an arrogant prick because I came in, she worked in an agency on the Isle of Dogs. She was the Lister. There were, I think, two or three lettings nags. And I came into the office, they were all suited and booted. I came in, shaved head, like great two haircut, flowery, like semi see-through shirt. - You think that's my name? - Semi see-through shirt. - Semi similar to now. And we had literally the first team meeting and you know it was like oh guys you know this is Christian by the way Christian these are art you know these are the monthly targets and I was like cool no problem. And I was a bit like who's this asshole. Oh you've got to do this go do that no problem. You know and then very quickly you know the initial impression was what an arrogant prick And I've always said there's the difference between arrogance and confidence as whether you can back it up Yeah, I also don't there are other levels to it how you deal with other people and stuff like that Mine was never a I'm better than you It was always I know I'm good enough to do that. Yeah, I don't I think you know competition was never a consideration for me It's not you you don't factor because I'm not I think that there's a common theme When you speak to agents of a certain I'm gonna say caliber makes it sound a bit prickly but Because everybody's got that same innate thing within them because I'm like you I think Competition they're there you need to have your eye on that competition, but don't fixate just concentrate where you're going Yeah, and but again, am I arrogant probably? They're good and do I scare? I don't know what I find quite funny. I don't think you're arrogant For me, arrogance is someone who brags No, and I often it and it is usually in most cases misplaced There are very few people who've achieved a lot and actually Shout about it. What you actually find is quite often. There is that confidence They can be quite stubborn about no, no, no, this is how it works They're not necessarily right, but for me arrogance goes above and beyond. I think that everybody has to have some arrogance within them. They do a Small part I have to confidence is one thing and I am really confident Really confident and I think that you learn to be confident. You're not born You just learn and and the shy person that I was years ago Hard to believe but I was yeah, wouldn't really put myself forward then you just grow into yourself don't you? But I think there has to be a certain element of arrogance but then you realise that arrogance won't get you very far. You have to believe you can achieve what you're setting off to achieve. You know you and I know you meet people and they think they really are really big bollocks and you sit and you think Christ or mighty shut up because they're not right. There's no right and wrong in any industry. No. There's just a difference of an opinion. I realised I was getting older and that came to me. They're not right, they're not wrong, it's just different. Well that's it and I think there's a really interesting thing you picked up on the competition bit and I've been kicking around in my head a conversation I had on Friday at the Neggs with... Do you mean the Neggs that you won? (laughing) - So did I drop that in there? Thank you, darling. But I had a really lovely chat with Benji, out in the home. - Oh God, I don't know him, but I love him. - Amazing guy, but what I really loved, and he crystallized it's stuff we've talked about on this before with other agents, and I've talked about this a lot with agents before, and we've just been talking about it now. There's, I feel like there was a quite a substantial shift in agency around kind of 10, 15 years ago where I felt like when we used to go to the esters, early doors and we used to go to staff and I would go to industry events to go, whatever, a course, a networking thing, whatever. I felt like kind of pre-2010, 2015, there was a lot of chest puffing, bullshitting. - Oh, absolutely. - There's so much fucking bravado about how amazing you're doing. - Do not think some of it without trying to, that's still going on. - Oh, don't, no. And it will always be there. It will always be there. And I think in any sales environment, you're always gonna have the ones who are always smashing it. - Wow. - And yeah, good luck to you. But I felt like, like I said, around that kind of 2010, 2015 time, They started being this shift of agents that, you know, I now consider this kind of network and they're all the kind of same agents that we see, the same training courses and the events and the networks and on podcast and everything else. But yes, we, you still compete, you know, you still want to grow the business, achieve a market share, whatever that is that you want to do. But that false, that false bravado of I've got everything figured out and I'm 10 times better than all of you. And just piss off and leave me alone and, you know, ride my wake. I feel like that, that element has largely dissipated in terms of the agents that, well, I say it's dissipated, it's still out there, but with the agents I love and respect and the ones that I see really doing things, whether it's just really cool things with culture or genuinely smashing it as a business, they are all, every single one of those, you could pick up a phone and go, dude, I really wanna come and pick your brains about something, and they'd be like, dude, you come on down, you come down, I'll go and have lunch with you, come with you, you come and spend time with the team, run it by them, you know this-- - Social media's done that though, social media's made people more accessible, and I think that you feel you know people. - Yeah, but they're still that attitude though, I still think there's been this general attitude shift of, look, we still compete, but why don't we all compete to be genuinely the best we can be? I agree. And I do accept the fact that there are, and all the people that can be bothered to go to industry stuff, right? And they're the best of the best. I really, truly believe that the people that we see, we are one of them, you're one of them, that you are, what do they call it, the top 5% and I'm quite pleased to be there because what's coming behind now without, it's absolutely dire some parts of this. It's a long time. It's all like, ah, we've got the Tarsons going on. There's a reason, there is a valid reason our industry has the reputation it has and And it's because most people have had at least one horrendous property experience. Whether it's selling a home, buying a home, renting a home, letting out a home, whatever it is, you can almost guarantee that everyone has had at least one shit experience. And yes, bad things happen out of people's control, but equally you and I both know the vast majority of those shit experiences could easily have been avoided. Yeah, yeah, that communication. Communication, structure within the business, training and education. Yeah. You know, again, you know, it's it comes to this whole thing. If you don't train your staff, how do you expect your staff to capably handle things? You need to give your staff knowledge so they've got, not only the technical knowledge to actually do it, but then also just the general knowledge to know how to manage things when it gets a bit bumpy? I always think it's like a brick wall. Thing is with the state agency, I suppose with anything, but I can only talk about a state agency, you start with a brick wall, sorry a brick in that wall, one brick. But as long as you know the brick, know the size and everything else, you can go and get your other brick, put that with it. And that's about management as well because years ago when I was a youngster in it, anybody could be in a state agent, I'm living proof of But you became a lister, you were a neg, picking up phone, then you became a lister, then you became a manager and you had no idea what you were doing. That's what's changed, I think, that everybody's getting a bit more, well, accessible, you're able to pick the phone up. There is a community, an absolute community of agents. I'm actually going to. I first met Ben Madden, Wendy Peterman, Tanya Cameron at that estate agency dinner that the Bulldogs do. And what a great idea. And again, what a brilliant idea. There's been amazing relationships carved out of that. Well, I've met four of what I consider, sorry, three, four of, can't you, of people that I would pick the phone up to now, and then vice versa. And it's all things like that that are part within the industry that are living in. - And I think what that crystallizes, I think for all those agents who don't, who don't go to these events, who don't do these training and networking things and sit there, you know, kind of a little bit snooty or dismissive, being like, what are they gonna teach us? What are they gonna do this? And look, some people love reading thought leadership books and entrepreneurial books, not my bag, each their own. And some people go to these events and absolutely love the panels. They take loads away. For me, I've got to say, taking something away from a panel is maybe 10 or 20% of it for me. Like that's the exception, not the rule. For me, it's being in the room with those people. For me, it's having the conversations. And that's not just how to run your business. That's also when you're having a really shit tough time. - Yeah. just sharing that, being brave enough to share that, and having people you really respect turn around and go like, - I'm having that feeling. - "Thank fuck, you said that." - Did you? - "Jesus, you too." Like we had it recently. Our team is now bang on the money, but we went through a rough patch probably about six months ago with the team. And Ann and I were slightly at a loss 'cause we were like, we don't get it. We've built a company around culture, We're very generous with what we do for our team. Yes, we do it our way. There is a certain way we run the business and there's a certain attitude we have to things. But we got stuck in a rut and it was affecting the whole team. And I'm in this fantastic WhatsApp group with the likes of Megan and Spencer and Luke Sinclair. - Oh my God, fuck it. - And Sue Gidney. - Jesus, you've got the big guard. Can I be in that one? - We've got some good ones in there. And for about two or three weeks, I struggled with, do I drop it? Do I put this in the group? Or do I go to one of my trusted confidants, like Megan or Spencer? Spencer has been my go-to for years when I'm really stuck with something. - God, he'd absolutely be my go-to. He's bloody gorgeous. - He's an amazing human being. And you know what? I unloaded, it wasn't three lines. It was like, you know, it was one of those big green blocks of what the fuck? And the greatest thing was it was, you know, the responses I got back from a lot of them was like, not unique, but, you know, all challenges, different things, different nuances. And I, you know, I don't know what their teams have. We watched this going on, but the fuck. But it was that safe space for us all as leaders to be like, "Waah!" And the conversations that came out of that on the phone, within the group, within six weeks, we'd turn things around. You know, but sometimes you just need to know, you're not alone, it's not just you, you've not done anything wrong, per se. Do you know Aaron Ellis? Yes. Right, so he's on my next podcast, right? Love Aaron, I've known Aaron for years because obviously Dupix, we'd started Dupix years. He's on my next podcast and there's a reel that I think dropped yesterday of me talking and I said to him about money because he'd set up and I was on about money to him and then I said there was a time, I had no money for the vat, I lay in bed worrying, worrying, I literally got no money Christian. We have all fucking been there. No one ever talks to about that today about Thought there's no money for the bills and I decided to sort of just telling that on the podcast And I said to do you know Aaron don't feel the zone because he's obviously just set up his own as well and Yeah, and I found that quite good because actually from that reel I've got loads of people messaging me now going Fucking hell thanks for sharing that because it can just all look too easy. Can't it? Well when we start the business we had three months Yeah, so I was What 24 years old I'd? Graduated from drama college 21. I tried being an actor for like 18 months two years fucking hated it Shit funny doing shitty little side jobs and trying to pay rent and everything else then fell into property, loved it, but thought, "This is a bit of a short change. We can do this better." But I came into this with nothing but a shit ton of debt, very young, and that was pre-financial crisis where you could just basically go to the bank and go, "Give me some money, would you?" And went to the bank. I was 24 as well, by the way. I took a 20 grand loan and I was like, that's 10 grand to live off 'cause I and I had agreed 10 grand each to start the business. 10 grand to launch the business, 10 grand to live off. And as I said to you, we ended up going for office. We took this office from day dot and all these ambitious plans about it. But bottom line, we had enough money to keep the lights on for three months. That was it. we had three months burn because obviously three months deposit yeah you know all the things you don't think about when you've never run a business before it was like oh months deposit right sorry a sorry a three month deposit and we got shafted on our first office so we blew we blew two two and a half grand before we'd even started on our first office list of fees surveyors and then two days before we due to sign the landlord gave it to his cousin or his nephew or something and that ever happened to us by the way. - There always are. It's always the best thing that could have happened. - The worst things that have happened to our business are the best things that have happened to our business. And now that is its perspective, right? It's... - You know you're talking about your, you know you're on about sharing that story about your staff and things and the team. My discussion with Nigel Rizner and what I was gonna do for my public speaking, You know, you've got the gator for Megan, right? Mine was the apple, Angie's apple, the authentic professional, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I truly believe this. You can imagine, and this is part of my thing, if everyone was to do it, this is what it'd be about. Here's an apple. You know what an apple looks like? How would the apple, you know what it is, like red, green, whatever. Put that apple in a basket of fruit. What happens when the apple goes wrong? - It makes everything else go wrong. everything else goes wrong. So, you all know your bad apples are in your team, in your, wherever it might be, in your life. If you don't remove that bad apple, it then affects all the other pieces of fruit in that basket. Your job, if you're keeping them there, you'll know better than that bad apple. And I sort of built my thing up. Now I was just going, that's really great. And I thought, it is, but it's not what I want to do. That's not really where I think it just gets a bit too serious. It's not really my, but I truly believe that though you see. - I think it's so true. I think what's fascinating about the bad apple is you do know, but it's also not that black and white because they're not bad at everything. And that's the problem. - But you do know, but you do know, but then you know, when it's having the courage and if you love your team and I've had them over the years and I have loved that team. The thing is what I realised as I now I'm out of it, just how much I protected was generous and everything else. And really at the end of the day, it meant nothing to them. - Well, and this was the thing, and this was, I think this was, that was actually a lot of the stuff that Ann and I struggled with. Going through this was that as the team got brought down, - Yep. that frustration, that disappointment, that whatever it was the team were feeling got directed at us. - Yeah. - You know, we're the owners, we're the bosses, we're the directors, we're responsible for-- - But then that's what I'm saying, you have to stop. You are the, and when I'm in doing my mentoring for agents giving, agents together-- - Agents together. - I talk about this. 'Cause it's always, everybody is always having the same problems. And I'll go, strip it back, strip it back, strip it back. You know when it's getting your big girl pants on or your big boy pants on, sorted out because there's nobody else who's gonna do it. Because the culture is what you've made it. And you're allowing it by allowing the apple to remain, you're diluting your culture and the very thing. And I was used to have to, you leave me talk about pointing north, what's good for the client, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it's true. 'Cause you have to go, strip it right back to you now and go, what do we want? Let's be honest, let's be honest, what we wanted. Like I had to do certain things. Like what do I want? And actually having the courage because you think I don't want to upset him. But we, you know, we had quite, there was quite a soft ambition wrapped up, which was a very core objective of us building base, which was, you know, we started base because we wanted to deliver landlords and tenants the service they deserved. We hadn't seen that done really anywhere else. - Does that multi-multi-award winner? - But one of the other things was we wanted to build the company that we would have wanted to go and work for. - Yeah, I'll get it. - That was fun. That was fun, that was supportive, that was empowering, that was ambitious. But, you know, work hard, play hard, kind of mentality. But by and large, fun, you know, which is why we never did the suited and booted thing. You know, we started at 10 o'clock, which most agents find utterly bewildering to me, but I've always had the mindset of, "You the fuck wants to talk to an agent before 10 o'clock in the morning?" You know, I always used to listen to the Foxons boys starting their 7 or 8 o'clock days and hitting the phones at like 7.30 in the morning. I was like, "If an agent called me, it's 7.30 in the morning." - I'd love it, babe. - I'm not a 5AM person. - But I'd love it, you see. - I'm not two hours into my day. I have to stop myself. I would be like, "You will leave." I'd just stop it when I do my WhatsApps. I do like WhatsApps or messages or emails and people go, "Christ, is that an early morning or a late evening?" And I'm like, "Don't know." But everybody's different, aren't they? Everybody's different. - Well, we've also had that with the team. It's one thing we've got over, like my brain just fires stuff. - Of course it does. - You know, I will be sat thinking something very intentional I'll get there, but I'll also be sat there at two o'clock in the morning as I often do. I mean that's quite a normal bedtime for me. I'll be sat there at quarter to two in the morning watching some shit on telly and I'll suddenly be like, "Do you know what we need to do for marketing? Do you know what we need to do with that video? Do you know what we need to do for the website?" And but for me, once the thought's there, I have to share it. I can't quite often with those kind of crystallized moments, I have to act and do something with it there and then. If I'm like, "Oh, I'll save that for later." Four hours later, I'm like, "What the fuck was that idea I had?" Or the next day, I'm like, "I had a really good idea yesterday. What was it?" So I will often jump into, like, if it's a marketing thing, specifically, like, "I'll jump onto Tristan's WhatsApp." Or we've got, you know, we've got three office WhatsApp groups. We've got the overall one. We've got one with our inventory clerks. we've got our kind of maintenance management one. And I will often drop stuff in being like, ooh, we need to have a think about this or we need to have a chat about this or I've been thinking about that. And few times the team would be like, dude, you can't message outside of office hours. Like office time is office time, out of office time is office time. And I was like, just-- - Don't read it then. - That's fine, just don't read it or mute it. Like mute the group. If you want to switch WhatsApp on mute, the second you walk out the door, I will never have a problem with that. - Yeah. - But I'm not going to change the way I work. I don't, I was like, just to be clear, when I put that in there, I absolutely do not expect a fucking response. I do not expect any engagement whatsoever, but for me, I need a record of what I've thought about. - I agree, I'm that person as well. - And it's often why I interrupt people in a conversation, when I'm having, because I will have a thought pop in my head. And I know if I don't get it out, A, I won't be listening to what the fuck the person's saying anyway, because I'm there going, "Okay, I'm just waiting for them to finish, so I can say the sort, and I've got to keep this thought in my head, because if I don't keep the thought in my head, I'm not going to have the thought in my head." Oh, get that finish talking. Cool. And then I'll talk about it. Or yeah, I'll just cut people off. And it's not intended in any other way, - To know Christian, to know you've got to look at it, it's you, I don't apologise anymore for being me. I think if you don't want to read my WhatsApps, don't fucking look at them. If you don't want to read my messages, that's fine, emails don't bother, okay? But don't ignore it forever. - Yeah, yeah, do it on your terms. That's fine, you know. - But again, see I'm unapologetically meaner and I think that, I have been for a few years, but I think it's okay to be that person. To just be yourself and-- - And I think that that's the benefit of maturing, right? Is you do, hopefully, I think most people do go through that thing of getting comfortable with who you are and accepting the fact that if you're a true authentic self, you attract your crowd. - You know, at 30, right? And I'm gonna leave it on this 'cause I've realized we're rattling on. In my 30s, I was just beginning to get, I'd become a mum and I was beginning to get who I was about. But a lot of, I realised the people that were around me, my close friends at that journey, that time in my life was from like early teens to then. Really were not my people for whatever reason. My forties, I definitely started culling people out my life. My fifties, I absolutely did. Well, I know it's happening in my sixties, But I think that my circle has now definitely got smaller. Because I just, you're not there, you're another 15 years of me, but you'll find that. You'll have done it in your 30s, you'll have done it in your 40s, you'll definitely your 50s, and you'll go, shit. I mean, I'm a 50 minute-- - You've only got so much time, you know, you've got your loved ones. - It's the clarity of it, and you think, you are a fucking pain in the arse, you bring no joy in my life, there's nothing to bring. And I'm not saying that's not the other way either, Christian. - No, no, exactly. - Because I think I'm not for everybody. - No, exactly. And that's the thing. You don't, you know, I think you get comfortable being the fact that I don't have to be everyone's friend. No, everyone has to like me. - It's upsetting, it's upsetting when you go and prove it. It's upsetting to think that you've created a culture, particularly with work, a creative culture of team and you think, these are my gang and then they're not. - Yeah. - You might be, but they're not to you. And that's a bit of a kick in the nuts. You know what, I'll get over it. - I want to steal a bit of your water. - And what do they say? My little thing, this two will pass. - This two will pass. - And it truly does, this two will pass. We now have it in our nose. - Well, there we have it folks. I think as you said, that's a nice place to round that one up. We've covered a few bits and pieces. So if you joined today, we've definitely given a few shout outs to various people. I think one of my main things, I keep joining back to it, if you are watching this and you're not, For whatever reason, you're not someone who gets yourself along to events. Start getting yourself along to events. Figure out what it is you want from them. If you like inspirational speakers, great, go for the talks. Find the events that have got the inspirational speakers that engage with you. Otherwise, just start getting to events. Start engaging. When we've got, there's the RAM conference next week. So I might be a little bit short notice for people. No, no, I think there's a few tickets left. - Yeah, you are not gonna meet a much more lovely and welcoming crowd. I think the Guild is quite similar. - It is. - The Guild is one I would equate similarly of very collaborative agents. - Yeah. - The main purpose around is passing business to one another. - Do you ever think Christian, I'm probably jumping in on your bandwagon here, but I wish there's one regret I've got and that I didn't start networking early enough. I shied away from networking. and didn't want to do it, wasn't going to be that person. But again, to end all of this off, I agree, anybody that's not out there that's sat there in wherever it might be, in their one single office, whether you're a neg, a secretary, or a manager. - Yeah, it doesn't matter what role you are, you don't need to be a business owner. - They need to just start to get themselves out there because it's only by then that you begin to realize that you have got a place in this industry. - Yeah, and I think there's this connotation with the word networking. You know, there's this feel that you have to go out and press the flesh and kind of sell. - What am I, I'm pressing the flesh? - You are, exactly. Just go and have some chats. Like I said, the greatest thing I take away from all the industry events I go to, with the greatest respect to the actual event and everything they put on, which is fabulous, but the thing I always come away thinking about is the conversations I have with people there, the catch-ups, the brain dump, the emotional load, the camaraderie, exactly, the laughing about stuff, whatever it is. So whatever your perception of an industry event is, try and kind of leave that at the door. Don't preset and judge what your own ambitions for the meeting are. Just start turning up to this stuff. I said, there's ran next week, probably the next one, I think the Guild Conference is in Feb that you do have to be a member for or think about being a member to think about that one. There's the We are not a conference in March. There's the EA dinners. And that is another great one. But that one you do have to be an owner, director or kind of like senior person. Not sure. It is I think a director's dinner. But again. We're traveling to New York to any of us and we'll tell you where to go. Yeah. And there's lots of us. Whoever you find you resonate and whether that's me and or Ben Madden or Spencer or Megan or whoever it is, we're all very approachable and if we've got the time and energy at the time, we'll give it to you straight away but you will never be forgotten or ignored. We will come back around to you as when we've got time, you'll always get a response. If you kind of feel like you resonate with someone and you'd like an introduction to someone else, reach out. I'll have you introduce people once another. Somebody will know, somebody won't know. Exactly, you'll all know someone. But darling thanks for coming down. You're welcome. I've loved this morning. It's been a lovely way to start my day anyway. I'm glad you liked it. Your day started. Right, bro. See you guys soon. Bye!