Annalese Walmsley: Killing the Frankenstein Stack, One Workflow at a Time

In this episode of The Viking Chats, Kristjan Byfield is joined by Annalese Walmsley, Sales Director at Kotini, to explore one of the most overlooked parts of the property journey: onboarding.

While much of the UK’s PropTech conversation focuses on portals, valuations and back-office automation, onboarding - that crucial first stage where ID checks, AML, forms, PIQs and more collide - is often held together by digital duct tape. A PDF here. A link there. A dashboard somewhere else. Annalese calls it a Frankenstein tech stack.

And it’s killing agent efficiency, client confidence, and operational clarity.

In this frank, funny and fiercely insightful conversation, Annalese unpacks the chaos that agents, property managers and sales teams are forced to navigate daily - and offers a smarter, joined-up vision of how onboarding can/should work. If you’ve ever lost hours chasing signatures, onboarding vendors manually, or juggling third-party tools that don’t speak to each other, this episode is for you.

🧠 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

✅ Why current onboarding processes are broken - and what it’s costing you
From AML checks to PIQs and document chasing, most agencies are wasting huge amounts of time and energy just trying to get properties or applicants through the door. Annalese breaks down how this fragmented approach is not only inefficient but also creates stress for staff and confusion for clients.

✅ The power of a unified, white-labelled experience
With Kotini, Annalese and her team have created a clean, branded, CRM-integrated onboarding flow that reduces friction, speeds up time-to-market and boosts conversion. She explains how this isn’t just a tech solution - it’s a brand & business enabler.

✅ How smart onboarding supports better compliance and client trust
Gone are the days when compliance was a tick-box exercise. With increasing regulatory scrutiny and client expectations, having a transparent, auditable and user-friendly onboarding journey can mean the difference between a smooth instruction and reputational risk.

✅ Why monetising onboarding isn’t taboo - it’s strategic
Annalese shares how Kotini enables agents to charge onboarding fees in a transparent, value-led way - often turning a compliance headache into a new revenue stream. It’s about delivering service worth paying for!

✅ The leadership lessons behind building Kotini
We also explore Annalese’s career journey - from her early days in frontline agency roles to scaling with FlatFair and now leading sales and strategy at Kotini. Her take on building culture, trusting people, and navigating the messy middle of PropTech growth is pure gold for business owners and department heads alike.

🔍 Why This Episode Matters

Letting and estate agents are under pressure: to do more, with less time, under tighter compliance requirements - all while delivering exceptional service.

But service starts with systems.

If your first customer touchpoint is slow, fragmented or confusing, what does that say about the rest of the journey? In contrast, a smooth onboarding experience sets the tone for trust, efficiency, and partnership.

Annalese’s approach - and Kotini’s product - prove that with the right tools, agents can reclaim hours, boost professionalism, and even unlock new revenue opportunities, all while delivering a better experience for vendors, tenants, landlords and buyers.

🎧 Who Should Listen

• Letting agents and sales teams frustrated by slow onboarding
• Branch managers trying to improve team efficiency
• Ops directors and compliance leads juggling too many systems
• PropTech lovers looking for smart, practical tools that actually work

Transcript

Kristjan Byfield: Hello everybody and…

Kristjan Byfield: welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats podcast. I'm delighted to be joined today by the superbly delicious Anelise Wsley. Darling, how are you?

Annalese Walmsley: I'm very well,…

Annalese Walmsley: thank It's time stamping this. It's almost Christmas, so almost time for some welldeserved holiday, which I'm looking forward to.

Kristjan Byfield: It's almost Christmas, but people will be listening to this after Christmas.

Kristjan Byfield: This will be a post Christmas drop. So, obviously for those people living under a rock. and you're currently at Katini. Is that right?

Annalese Walmsley: That's fine.

Annalese Walmsley: I am. Yes. Yep.

Kristjan Byfield: Tell me a little bit about what you get up to at the moment. is What is your kind of daily role like?

Annalese Walmsley: So, I'm a sales director, but I also have a dab in the marketing team, working with the product team. evolving what we currently do as a proposition. So, we are a digital onboarding platform that integrates into pretty much every CRM on the market now.

Kristjan Byfield: So, this is wrapping up a lot of the AML stuff, KYC.

Annalese Walmsley: Launching Alto in the new year, which is exciting. and basically our product sort of replaces four or five different bits of tech that agents are using today to onboard vendors and buyers. So,  Most agents are what I describe as having a Frankenstein tech stack. So they'll do their of They'll do their IDML through this provider. They will send out a PDF PIQ form and they'll kind of do it in a really disjointed way. What Catini does is it presents it to the vendor within one branded So they get a branded email, branded journey, and they do everything to get themselves on the market in that space. So they don't have to download any apps.

Annalese Walmsley: They don't have to, fill in world war and peace. They just go into that app, fill everything in, and then our CRM integrations allow us to push back all the documents, all the updates back to the agent. So, basically, it's from getting a listing from an instruction all the way through to listing. So, agent presses one button to create a case, vendor gets their link, they fill it all in, and then they're ready to go on the market. So, it's a really clever bit of tech, and to be honest, it's not difficult to sell. It's more about agents opening their doors to you and letting you show them what it is you do. nine times out of 10, agents will go ahead and use it because they can see the benefit.

Annalese Walmsley: And equally, it doesn't have to cost them a penny either. So, they can pass that cost on to vendors, buyers, whoever they want to in the process.

Kristjan Byfield: And your platform allows them to do that to kind of monetize it to a certain extent.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah. So, it's fully customizable on the payment side. So, we do a lot of payment processing. We collect upfront payments, things like EPCs, stuff like that. And they can customize what they want to charge. So Cassini cost 49 quid for everything all in per property. If an agent wants to charge £50 to vendors and 50 to buyers, they'll make £50 on every transaction.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, up to the agent how they do that business.

Annalese Walmsley: But there's still some agents out there that are scared to charge. but that's a story for another day, I think.

Kristjan Byfield: But yeah, I mean,…

Kristjan Byfield: look, we can circle back around to that.

Kristjan Byfield: I wanted to talk a little bit more first about kind of your journey into the supplier space because obviously we had a bit of a chat about this before we hit record. so you started off in nurseries in nurseries a bit of sexy insurance and…

Annalese Walmsley: Mhm. Yes.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. yes. Very, very sexy.

Kristjan Byfield: then you landed in the world of property working for one of the biggest female names I think in agency and…

Annalese Walmsley: I was the wonderful Glennice Fu from Hunters.

Kristjan Byfield: definitely in letings.

Kristjan Byfield: Who was that?

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, I was her PA, which meant I just did again a mix of everything. I was also the first person to ever organize the Hunters National Conference. So that was my little feather in my hat of that to be honest. Going out and getting sponsorship from suppliers, getting booking speakers, basically everything.

Kristjan Byfield: And what was…

Annalese Walmsley: And it was probably Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: what was that like coming into the world of agency without any kind of track record and coming in must have been quite interesting coming in as a PA in a high level without that kind of groundwork. I mean I know several people who've kind of worked up to PA or EA. they've still kind of had that early journey of being an office administrator or…

Kristjan Byfield: something like that. what was that like just coming kind of cold into property?

Annalese Walmsley: It was full on.

Kristjan Byfield: Still when Kevin Holl is

Annalese Walmsley: So I was with Hunters when they were in their massive growth phase. they were franchising. I was sat in Glennice's office. Yeah. John Walhouse was still there. Kevin Hollen was there. I was sitting in an office with me and Glennice. I remember it quite well. We're sat next to each other. And then you had Andy Bushell, Carol, you had Carrie Alliston. They were all working in that same office. it was intense. It was busy all the time. But I picked up a lot from the training stuff that Glennness used to do. So Glennice and Carol used to run the Hunter Training Academy. So I used to manage that,…

00:05:00

Annalese Walmsley: organized sitting on a lot of that training. So whilst I wasn't an agent, I was learning what agents did and how they did it.

Kristjan Byfield: And it says I think a lot for a business,…

Kristjan Byfield: a lot of the names you mentioned there. I mean, Carrie I recorded an episode with her which was the last one we released last Monday. and that was great talking about her journey up through the hunter ranks and…

Kristjan Byfield: then as so many seem to be doing at the moment did the leap over to supplier with Barbara. so you did stint with Glennice. and then I think I'm right saying you went back to insurance for a little bit. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, I did.

Annalese Walmsley: I went back into insurance but in a different guys. So when I first worked in insurance, I worked with Halifax, ISA, and Investments with Aviva. which probably wasn't really a sensible idea considering we spent most of our lunches in the pub and then we were handling people's money but it was fun but I went to work for his cock who were opening up a new flagship office in York so if you've ever been to York they've got this huge office with this sounds really weird but a huge rocket in it like a genuine rocket inside the office and they were looking for someone to come in and recruit and do recruitment open days that type of stuff so again I was organizing all of that from an ops perspective and

Annalese Walmsley: then supporting on a R function as well. So obviously I did quite a bit of when I worked at Glennice as well. So I was able to transfer a lot of those skills to insurance. But to be honest, it was really boring.

Annalese Walmsley: Really boring. Loads of people try and tap me up to be a recruiter. And I'm like I could do it with my eyes closed, but I don't enjoy it and it's really boring.

Kristjan Byfield: Interesting. And…

Kristjan Byfield: and then I think all right you got headhunted to come back into kind of the property supply space. Is that right?

Annalese Walmsley: No. So, from there I was just about to get married. so this was back in 2014. So, I was just about to get married. my daughter was coming to live with me. If you've ever listened to my other podcast, you'll know the story of that one. and I just wanted a quiet life. So, I thought I'll just apply for PA jobs, part-time, 16 hours a week type joby. and I then applied to be Ian Preston's PA because I thought, what, I do quite like property. I want to get back into it. but not as an estate agent.

Kristjan Byfield: No, he thought you'd be bored in the role.

Annalese Walmsley: So I applied to be his PA. I didn't get the job. not because I wasn't good enough, by the way. but because he thought I'd be bored, so he said, "Look, I just don't think this is enough for you. I'm quite a high energy person." And he said, "I think this is just going to bore you." his PA who he hired instead of me is still there, by the way. So Hannah is lovely and she's brilliant. but she's just stuck through everything with them. So I didn't get that job, but at the time Ian and James Preston, James Baker were invested in a business with Peter Knight. and that business was called Boomerang, which was a customer feedback all about NPS. we were doing telephone outbound calling. And he offered me a job as an operations manager.

Annalese Walmsley: And to be honest, I was like, why not? Let's just give it a go. What's the worst that can happen?

Kristjan Byfield: which is a really really good mindset…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: because we do hear a lot particularly with women in the work space that there's that self-filtering that I don't know I haven't done it before yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: There's that thing of people women will feel like they have to tick off every single box on a job application to put themselves forward, whereas men will do it's 30% of it. If I can do 30% of it,…

Kristjan Byfield: Women will go like, I've only got eight out of the 10 ideal skills sets.

Kristjan Byfield: I'm not sure I'm right." And men will go, "I've got three." Fine. I'll figure out that

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, that's my mentality though.

Annalese Walmsley: I've got quite masculine energy when it comes to things like that. I think, of everything that's happened in my life, I'm like, what's the worst that could happen? I fail and I move on and do something else. I've got,…

Annalese Walmsley: I don't like taking big risks because I have a family and things like that. But it's not a big risk when you think there's always another job if it doesn't work.

Kristjan Byfield: there is and…

Kristjan Byfield: and I think that's the thing when you're a capable human being as long as you've got that faith in yourself that self-confidence and I think that that is fundamentally what a lot of people lack but like you said I mean I'm very much like you whenever an opportunity presents itself I will just kind of very quickly be like what's the worst that can happen that's really not that bad.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah. And you learn.

Kristjan Byfield: And then you look at the positives and it gets really exciting.

Annalese Walmsley: You're always learning. Whether it's bad stuff or good stuff, you're learning what you're good at, what you're bad at. there's never a downside to trying something different. that's what I see. I've kind of gathered so many different skill sets in the different types of jobs that have got me to where I am today.

00:10:00

Annalese Walmsley: If you'd have said to me in 2014, you will be working in propt tech, you'll be a sales director for a startup, it'll be your fourth office startup and you'll love it. Ada said, "No, I just want a quiet life, a few hours a week." And turns out I live anything but It's chaotic but amazing.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. …

Annalese Walmsley: But it's not going now.

Kristjan Byfield: so sorry I cut in. So, you did Boomerang and then COVID did not do that business well.

Annalese Walmsley: It was still going when I left. I always like to plug that all of the tech businesses I have worked in are still going. I haven't killed any of them. they were but unfortunately yeah it was not really a sustainable model at the time in terms of where the world was in terms of pricing cost savings increasing costs across everything and it just kind of slowly died away so I do still keep in touch with a lot of people that work there…

Annalese Walmsley: though SJ Taylor being one of them so she was my boss before I left I did yes so that's one I got headunted on Ben Harris.

Kristjan Byfield: Nice. And…

Kristjan Byfield: then from there you went to zero.

Annalese Walmsley: I remember distinctly because I was on a Hendu abroad when I got my first message from him and I did reply. I might have had a few drinks, but I did reply.

Annalese Walmsley: And I just thought it was really exciting. I thought it's a disruptor product. it's one of those products where agents are going to say we don't need it, but I'll convince them that they do. I'm very good at convincing people. Ask my husband. Canop were first Canopy had their zero deposit product.

Kristjan Byfield: It was an interesting space,…

Kristjan Byfield: wasn't it? Because when you had kind of reposit that came out first, if I remember correctly, they were kind of first out.

Annalese Walmsley: So before they were referencing they were deposit alternative. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: …

Kristjan Byfield: funny story and I forget the gentleman's name, but the guy who started Canopy, quite funny. I got invited to of this entrepreneurs thing I used to go to, but it was quite cool. It was basically like you'd have 10 people in a room and then you would have three to five people stand up and do a 10-minute presentation. And that could either be a startup idea or…

Annalese Walmsley: Mhm. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: a problem you're having in your business. the fascinating thing was you'd have 10 or 15 people sat around the table who'd listened to it. You weren't allowed to tell anyone what you did until the end of the event.

Annalese Walmsley: So…

Annalese Walmsley: what you doing just what the problem you were solving for example?

Kristjan Byfield: So the idea was they would always get a mixture of people in the room.

Kristjan Byfield: They would try and make sure there was one or two people kind of in the relevant space but they would get entrepreneurs across different sectors. And the idea is that you would just get honest kind of general business feedback rather than people kind of bumping their ego on and you weren't allowed to say having worked in the space for three years blah blah blah blah blah you just had to give really unfiltered answers and it was a really really interesting concept actually because you get some really fascinating bits of insight but chat pitched

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah,…

Kristjan Byfield: pitch canopy and yeah a bit like you said now you kind of pitched it and I was kind of sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

Annalese Walmsley: but they are really popular. if you look at and I can say this because I've seen the stats, if you genuinely present tenants with two options side by side of deposit or a deposit alternative, there is around 50% on average choose a deposit alternative. And it's a genuine stat, and I know this because when we were at FlatFair, which was where I went after zero deposit after they made me redundant during COVID,…

Annalese Walmsley: I'm not on zero deposit. Yeah. Yeah, it was then.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: I went to flatfair and they created this deposits product where they could present those options side by side and the results were genuinely about 50% of tenants would actually choose it. It's more about the landlords not opting for it more so than tenants.

Kristjan Byfield: And I think that another thing that killed it, right or wrong, was the tenant fee ban, right? Because particularly with agencies like Zero they wrapped up a lot of the big agents as stakeholders launch.

Annalese Walmsley: 

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: So they had a lot of big brand…

Annalese Walmsley: Connell's Countrywide Yeah, I think…

Kristjan Byfield: which should have just been overnight success but then obviously the tenant fee ban hit and everyone got very twitchy about what you could or couldn't and I think as is choice is fine.

Annalese Walmsley: because it was optional. Yeah, it's agents.

Kristjan Byfield: At that point it was in the early days it's like you can't ask parents for anything and

00:15:00

Annalese Walmsley: I remember training I've deposit. had insurance and non-insurance type products. I've been on both sides of the fence. And I remember the last slide at my training session at Zero Deposit was like, you can't say this and you can't say that and you can't do this. So agents got to the end of the training thinking, this is great." And then they went, " but how do we talk about it?" Because we can't say this and…

Annalese Walmsley: we't say We can't recommend it. it's a really protected space. Whereas then when I went to flatfair, I was like, " we're not insurance. So it's not FCA regulated. It's not Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: That's Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. there are benefits to being FCA regulated, but it puts you in a very Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: I remember my interview with So, France and Daniel who were the original founders of FlatFair and I just left Zero Deposit and Mal McCallian got me an interview because he was there when I joined FlatFair and I sat down with France and he said, "Would you go out and pitch agents our product that you've pitched zero deposit?" And I told him I wouldn't. And I said because I have integrity and I genuinely believe that zero difficulty is a better product. I got the job. I don't know how but I did…

Annalese Walmsley: because I had integrity and I was not willing to go to my clients say that great product that I told you was the best on the market. I'm now working for their competitor and theirs is the best on the market. I never did that.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, exactly.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I think for a good boss that will resonate, and ultimately it's their job to convince you over time that the product is better.

Annalese Walmsley: And I did get convinced that it was better over time.

Kristjan Byfield: But the supply space can be quite incestuous at times. So you don't really want someone and so is agency same in agency when we interview people in agency would always ask people how they found where they work now or where they worked before.

Kristjan Byfield: And yeah, it never sits well…

Kristjan Byfield: where you have someone really kind of put the boot in to agency that they've worked at and it's like, "Yeah, but hold on. You basically told us it's a criminal enterprise, but you were there for four years." so which one is it? you were there for six months. We're like, Jesus Christ and jump ship. All good.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, you were part of it.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. I mean,…

Annalese Walmsley: I stayed at FlatFair the longest I've ever stayed anywhere in my career.

Kristjan Byfield: including Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: I stayed there for four years and genuinely I was the last person to be hired before COVID and I was the only person still standing after COVID, with the business and they put their trust in me to kind of lead that sales front forward and I only left because I was bored. I was like, I need a new challenge. I feel like I've done…

Annalese Walmsley: what I can. there's nothing there wasn't at the time anything more exciting to come with FlatFair.

Kristjan Byfield: I mean,…

Kristjan Byfield: you got some really big wins them,…

Kristjan Byfield: didn't you? You got them and you did really well at getting them into the build to rent space, which was really where a lot of the early adoption came from. is they were all about exploring different models and different experiences.

Annalese Walmsley: And it's easier.

Annalese Walmsley: Build to rent is one landlord. That's the only landlord you have to convince. Whereas in the resi,…

Kristjan Byfield: Exactly. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: if you've got a portfolio of 250, you got to have 250 conversations. So it's a much easier to adopt in build to rent than it is in traditional agency. Yeah. …

Kristjan Byfield: So, you did the whole NDO deposit alternative kind of space done and then like you said, you just kind of felt like you wanted a new challenge. So, how did the role at Catini come about?

Annalese Walmsley: so I joined LSL after leaving Homebox just over a year ago.

Annalese Walmsley: It was a short stint. Let's just leave it there. it was a short stint. not for me.

Kristjan Byfield: Not all job placements work out for a reason.

Annalese Walmsley: But I left there and Martin Alderton from LSL said to me, "Look, I think you'd be a really good fit for what we're trying to do in 2025." And that's when the L franchise sales director role came up. And at the time, I thought, "This is a really good space for me to be in. I think it'll be really interesting." What I didn't realize is that I'm just not a corporate girly. I am not a ask for permission kind of individual.

Kristjan Byfield: And also being given a bit of free reign just to kind of crack on and…

Annalese Walmsley: I'm more of a ask for forgiveness rather than permission. and I didn't.

Kristjan Byfield: and kind of be trusted to do your job effectively under your own initiative.

Annalese Walmsley: And they did trust me. They did. And to be honest,…

Annalese Walmsley: the people I worked with, they were great. It was The pace was so slow. I just couldn't find I couldn't motivate myself because I felt like everything was so slow and drawn out and…

Kristjan Byfield: And…

Kristjan Byfield: off the back of three startups tend to be a pretty exciting space where things get thrown at you,…

Annalese Walmsley: yeah and…

Kristjan Byfield: but things are happening fast and Yeah.

00:20:00

Annalese Walmsley: you change, one day you're working on this, next day you're helping with marketing, you're building a new product or a service. And I missed that. It was like I felt a little bit I think I've said this to somebody before, but a star- shaped peg in a round hole.

Annalese Walmsley: I was just kind of trying to get fit in and I just didn't fit in. and I made a conscious decision pretty early on in that role that it wasn't for me. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: I remember you telling me quite early on that you were like,…

Kristjan Byfield: "Yeah, it's good.

Annalese Walmsley: So I did six months there.

Kristjan Byfield: It's good that you're self-aware. It's really important to and I think it's also good for employers as well.

Kristjan Byfield: We've hired people over the years for Bass where, we thought they were the It was pretty apparent early doors they weren't the right fit. but we didn't act on it fast enough and…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah,…

Kristjan Byfield: neither did they, they weren't happy either. So yeah, it's really important I think to be true to yourself and I've talked about this quite a bit. we spend so much time working so much time working.

Annalese Walmsley: 

Annalese Walmsley: we do. so much time and no I think that you say passion is the right word and…

Kristjan Byfield: there's nothing wrong with work being a bit hard and there's nothing wrong with work, being tough at times, but I think, there's got to be that passion.  I think, maybe saying enjoying work to some people sounds a bit I don't  Hey,

Annalese Walmsley: I remember when I was at Boomerang I was getting itchy feet and I was ready to leave that kind of thing and I got approached by company it was a great salary. It was a company car and I thought it was everything that I ever wanted, So I was like, look, shiny salary, company car, this is going to be great. And then my husband sat me down and he went, "Right, Anaise." So he said, first of all, the company was called PHS.

Annalese Walmsley: I don't know whether you're familiar with who PHS are.

Kristjan Byfield: There the supplies company.

Annalese Walmsley: And he sat me down, Christian, and he said, "Do you think you could be passionate about selling sanitary bins?" And I said no. So I passed up on that job opportunity. But that's where I could have gone. if I was just chasing the money, which at that time,

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. I think it would have turned off very quickly,…

Annalese Walmsley: I was young, I could have done that. I could have just chased the salary. I wouldn't have been fulfilled in what I was doing. And I probably wouldn't have done as well in my career because I find that if I'm not passionate about a product or service, god,…

Kristjan Byfield: It would have nice glamour.

Annalese Walmsley: And I was traveling a lot with zero deposit but at least I wouldn't have had sanitary bins in my boot. I mean the company car might have been a van. You never know.

Kristjan Byfield: The glamour.

Annalese Walmsley: Could you just imagine me with marolds and…

Kristjan Byfield: The glamour of turn setting up.

Kristjan Byfield: You could have had,…

Annalese Walmsley: a PH?

Kristjan Byfield: PHS branded outfits and everything. You could have been living the dream. You fool.

Annalese Walmsley: 

Annalese Walmsley: But he did.

Kristjan Byfield: It's good to have a partner that genuinely understands,…

Annalese Walmsley: And that's why, with Andy, I think it's great is that he will knock me back into the real world sometimes going, "Look, babe." Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: it's really good to have that…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. But…

Kristjan Byfield: because Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: but yeah, on Catini, I actually got introduced to Kieran through Amy Shields from Smart Compliance. and she was like, I just genuinely think you guys can meet. Kieran's looking for a sales director. He wants somebody high energy." and she's like, "I think you'd be great." And literally met Kieran and Harvey and the team and just hit it off almost instantly. And I was like, "This is super exciting. It's a great product, but the problem you've got is that nobody knows who you are and what you do because I didn't know who you are. And if I don't know who you are, and I've been working in this space for a long time. You got a problem. You need awareness.

Annalese Walmsley: What we need first." So, we've spent the last seven months building that. And now we've got, something like,300 LinkedIn followers. we don't have to be in rooms now for people to know what we do, which is huge strides compared to…

Kristjan Byfield: No, your marketing is really consistent.

Annalese Walmsley: where we were.

Kristjan Byfield: I think that's a lot of it, Just be present, do the odd event, but on the socials, in the marketing, relevant to the three articles. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: it's I think I said to the guys when I joined, we need to be being talked about in rooms we're not in. And that's the key message really. It's like, we're a Catini. why aren't they here? It's like, we don't need to be if we've got that kind of word of mouth now. So, I don't want to break our back on the event circuit. I've done that for so many years. I literally feel like I've been on a stand at EA Masters, will I have every year…

Annalese Walmsley: since it was the Sunday Times Awards and things like that. So, I'm kind of like, we don't want to keep doing that because they're expensive as well,…

Kristjan Byfield: And look,…

Annalese Walmsley: these events.

Kristjan Byfield: you and I have talked about stands. I mean, I have mixed feelings about stands. I mean, you need the stands at events to fund the events for the agent.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: It's really important part of the piece and that kind of does raise your profile and like you said does get people talking. But, I'm still very dubious about the true value of those stands. I mean, like you said, How many people turn up at an event totally unaware of a product that are going to walk away being like, "Yeah, we've signed or…

00:25:00

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. There's also agent avoidance as well.

Kristjan Byfield: we're signing up next week." It happens, but they're fairy tales rather than

Annalese Walmsley: agents don't go to these things to be sold. Some want to go and see the services and things. Kafuffle was a great example of that as an event because my initial thoughts and I told why and I've told David and everybody was they put us on a different floor, right? The suppliers were on a different floor to where all the conference was taking place. And I turned around and…

Annalese Walmsley: went, "This is gonna be s*** because nobody's gonna want to go and see the suppliers." But turns out what that ended up doing was promoting the individuals that genuinely were interested in speaking to us rather than those that were just giving us lip service because they wanted the swag. …

Kristjan Byfield: And that's it.

Kristjan Byfield: There's a lot of You get the merch hunters doing the mad dashes in the short He could literally just add a shopping list to this lot,…

Annalese Walmsley: you should have seen David Mintz last week at RAN. He was hilarious. He had three bags full of merch and just running around grabbing landmark socks and all sorts of things.

Kristjan Byfield: couldn't he? I mean,…

Annalese Walmsley: Exactly. Yeah,…

Kristjan Byfield: the amount of contacts he could just be like, "So, Santa needs two mugs,…

Annalese Walmsley: but everyone thought we were a travel company when they saw us last week.

Kristjan Byfield: three pairs of money pair sock, money penny socks.

Annalese Walmsley: I don't know why, but I think it's…

Annalese Walmsley: because we've gone with our admin holiday theme. so some guy came over was like, "Are you like a travel agent for estate agents?" And I was like, "No, but that could be a genuine idea, especially when you get to the end of the conference season." Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: We're going to spin that up.

Annalese Walmsley: I said if I'd had 10 holidays to sell last Thursday, I reckon I could have sold them in that room because everyone looked exhausted from event season. It's the last one of the year. It's like why don't you book a holiday? I could have done that off the side of my stand.

Kristjan Byfield: Look, you and we've only got about 10 minutes left on this.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: Talking about conferences, which I love, we've just got to the end of conference season, as you mentioned. We had RAN the last big harrah of the year,…

Annalese Walmsley: It was indeed.

Kristjan Byfield: just about recovered.

Kristjan Byfield: But you and I are both huge advocates of the event space and what it means not just for suppliers…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: but for agents as well and I've spoken a lot for me it's not so much about the talks on the stage like I can I'm probably interested in about 10% of the conversations that happen in stage legitimately. for me it's a lot more about the conversations in the room, both as a supplier and as an agent, just catching up, shooting the breeze. And again, I've had some amazing chats this year. I'm gonna have to get Benji from Hatton Home on because he and…

Annalese Walmsley: I had a lovely chat with him on Thursday night.

Kristjan Byfield: We've had a couple of belters.

Kristjan Byfield: We had a really good chat with the NEGs all about collaboration about how, this exciting new era of agency isn't this animalistic competition that it was 10 plus years ago.

Annalese Walmsley: It's like that in the supplier space now though, isn't it?

Kristjan Byfield: I know kind of always a little bit like that.

Annalese Walmsley: It's switched.

Kristjan Byfield: And then we had another really interesting one at RAN all about the balance of tech and people in business and…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Not.

Kristjan Byfield: and where that right balances. but no, had a really good chat. But what I wanted to do, I wanted to quickly pay a little bit of lip service to one of I think, our joint favorite not conferences. the women in estate agency

Kristjan Byfield: Say here.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Do you know what I've said this before and I'll say it again. Probably one of the most inspirational conferences I'  when I first attended the first one 3 years ago was it basically was the catalyst to everything that's happened in my life in 2025. So, it's about real people. I feel like and I can say this because I go to a lot of these events quite often. It's the same people having the same sorts of conversations about the same things that you're hearing on podcast, on webinars, but just in a bigger room.

Annalese Walmsley: What women in estate agency did and do is they bring other voices, other areas into the conversation that don't get discussed at a traditional conference.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. I think the interesting thing about it is it's an event for people in agency,…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, exactly.

Kristjan Byfield: but it's not an event about agency.

Kristjan Byfield: And my feeling with the three they've put on, you could go and…

Kristjan Byfield: listen to that conference from any industry and you would walk away with pretty much just as much as you do in I mean there's some data,…

Annalese Walmsley: I was sort of saying about taking my daughter.

Kristjan Byfield: there's some data and analytics that to tie it into our industry obviously because it is for estate agents.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: But I think the thing that really blew my mind that first year and like I said really thinking about what I was saying about the fact that I'm not generally drawn to these events because of the talks that happen on stage and that's because I find a lot of them are very sy and it's all about how can you boost your listings how can you boost your fees blah blah blah blah and it's like yes people come up with new ideas but it's the same repetition over again and I also get frustrated because I'm like all this information is out there.

00:30:00

Kristjan Byfield: anyone in this room if they genuinely wanted to do something about it could find this online and implement it themselves getting told it on stage and…

Kristjan Byfield: and I know it's true about everything but genuinely what genuine blew my socks off that first year and what they've managed to retain so far is that thing that I said anyone from any industry could have been in there but it was about the workplace it was about empathy and understanding. And it was about the hidden struggles, …

Annalese Walmsley: And it was stuff that you could genuinely apply as well to you or…

Kristjan Byfield: people go through.

Annalese Walmsley: as an individual some of the stuff. So, one of the bits that I wrote about it on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago, but one of the bits was remember Amy Schills talked about her anxiety and…

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: how she deals with that. And I've got a very highly charged emotional 8-year-old at the moment who's really struggling with basically controlling her emotions and…

Annalese Walmsley: …

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: how she does that. And I passed that information to her. So it's not just that I've used it or I've needed it. I've passed it on to my daughter in a time where she's feeling these big feelings and other people's stories even Vicky Beerus when she did about her the books and the story things that she's learned in business that's genuine stuff that you can take away and…

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. I mean there's so much stuff that I wouldn't get a mention I mean some of the things that really struck me I can't remember…

Annalese Walmsley: go I'm going to read that or I'm going to check this resource out you can do that whereas I don't feel that you get that as much from any other not conference  Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: if it was last year or the year before it was quite a bit about the menopause which in the last couple of years is finally sorry it's only taken what 50,000 years for people talk about something that afflicts

Kristjan Byfield: 51% of the population. But hey, finally got talked about and as someone who's got a business partner who's gone through it and…

Kristjan Byfield: a wife who's in the Perry, I mean,…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: I didn't even know what the** Perry menopause was before. I hadn't even heard that phrase, but that for me was so eyeopening. Not just about the multitude of ways it affects people, but the gross kind of medical negligence around it.

Annalese Walmsley: 

Annalese Walmsley: And how it affects your business as well.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah,…

Annalese Walmsley: If you've got, a team of women working for you or you've got an aging team as well, you need to know about these things. You need to be able to apply actual things to your business to help improve their way of life. And if you don't know it exists, how are you ever going to change it? So, there's so much in there for that conference. the beatboxers, the flash mobs, the just amazing.

Kristjan Byfield: there is the thumb back.

Annalese Walmsley: And I do feel I think they had one at negot it wasn't negotiator…

Annalese Walmsley: who was it the ran conference where they had someone playing like a saxophone or something it wasn't ran the negs yes suddenly just burst in but I can see that…

Kristjan Byfield: No, I think that was the next are going to have it…

Kristjan Byfield: because I think we were thinking about having a cool sachs at Mar. God damn it.

Annalese Walmsley: but you can see it's starting to trickle into other types of events because people are seeing…

Annalese Walmsley: what works and what we all shout and rave about when we get home.

Kristjan Byfield: And I think there's some really interesting ones like this,…

Kristjan Byfield: some of the ones that resonated with me. Rachel,…

Annalese Walmsley: Rachel Hannah at Brooken.

Kristjan Byfield: thank I always remember Hannah, I can never remember the second part of the double barrel.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: her one all about language which was so powerful for me, working in a business with an LGBTQ business partner where more than half of our team have been part of that community.

Kristjan Byfield: And even as someone who cons considers themselves, a very strong ally, there was some really interesting moments in there about how just carelessness with words can totally unintentionally be really kind of hurtful and…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: that was really fascinating and…

Kristjan Byfield: like I said the other thing that's come through and I think the conference is starting to having to find a slightly new approach for next year. But we've had some eyeopening and heartbreaking stories shared on the stage and I think it kind of inspired to open up to Russell and…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, definitely don't have time for that Mhm.

Kristjan Byfield: share your incredible story on the two Russell's podcast and we won't del too deep into that now. We definitely don't have time.

00:35:00

Kristjan Byfield: But I mean you confided that story in me I think about a year and yeah, I mean, I've made some incredible friendships through the conference and through the supplier space and it never ceases to astound me the myriad of things that I mean, look, we all go through, but the myriad of things that women go through that get swallowed and suppressed and…

Kristjan Byfield: kind of put down partly because it's just too horrendous to keep reimagining and reliving through every day, but also

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. I think it gave people a platform to be human rather than just robot business people.

Kristjan Byfield: because there's this shocking mindset of it happens to everyone. It's just kind of part of life. and I think, some of those things yeah, we're genuinely kind of mind-blowing and it's really kind of reframed  There.

Annalese Walmsley: There are so many people since my podcast and since that event that have talked to me about their problems, things that have happened to them in their lives. And there's one individual who actually contacted me and cuz I was in touch with them and I didn't know what they were going through. And I said that because I was contacting them, I was checking in. There was one day she said that you called me and you genuinely saved my life because that was the day that I was going to end it, and that conference was the first time that I'd met that person and…

Annalese Walmsley: we've evolved our friendship over the years since then. it was the first conference when I met Russell and I told Russell my story because it just moved me in a way that no other conversation, anything has ever done before.

Kristjan Byfield: So Carla was going to be kicking me out of the room.

Kristjan Byfield: I've now just had a sign held up at the window that I no longer need to get kicked out the room so we can an extra few minutes,…

Annalese Walmsley: Mhm.

Kristjan Byfield: but I will let you get back to your working day soon before I get sent a salary bill by way too long. So, look, I mean, like I said, obviously I don't want to go too much down that path.

Kristjan Byfield: I think I have found the stories shared by women on that stage the last three years mindblowing at times. and I think if nothing else just as a man sat in that room you can't help but just become more conscious and more aware of things you say and…

Kristjan Byfield: do unintentionally. it just causes you to just sometimes take a breath, take a step and just think before you let something dart or you think might be funny fall out your face. but I think also, as leaders, as bosses, as staff, as colleagues, it is an event aimed at women, but it is really really important that there are men in the room.

Annalese Walmsley: Absolutely.

Kristjan Byfield: …

Annalese Walmsley: Absolutely. And not a conference.

Kristjan Byfield: and seriously, if you are a guy who is listening to this and you haven't yet been to the conference or the not conference, sorry, ladies,…

Annalese Walmsley: Yes. It's not expensive.

Kristjan Byfield: if you've not been to the event yet, do yourself a favor and get your ass down there in March. I genuinely would be utterly astonished if anyone attended that conference and genuinely regretted going or thought it was a waste of their time and money. you need to say for the depository sponsored after party. Yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: It really isn't, and you can do it in a day for a day really a trip because it ends at a reasonable hour unless you want to do the afterparty which is always fun. is you guys sponsoring it? There we go. I'll definitely be there then.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. …

Annalese Walmsley: The bar tab is on you.

Kristjan Byfield: we've been a supplier sponsor the last three years, but yeah, this year we've decided or we got the opportunity, I would say, to sponsor the after party.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. There ain't no party like an afterparty.

Kristjan Byfield: And if anyone knows me and Carla, they know that we like a little bit of a party. So, that felt quite on brand. And then I'm sure there's the after party last year. So, …

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah,…

Kristjan Byfield: but no, in all seriousness, or woman, if you are listening to this and you haven't come to the WEA event,…

Annalese Walmsley: you should be there.

Kristjan Byfield: booking your diary there's still some tickets left. I can't remember. It's in March. I can't off the top of my head.

Annalese Walmsley: It's always in my diary as soon as I get a whiff of a date.

Kristjan Byfield: No. When is it? I'm sure it's March.

00:40:00

Annalese Walmsley: It always is March. It's on the sixth. No. winners. There we go. We're both frantically checking our diaries.

Kristjan Byfield: We're both frantically hopping around trying to find our diaries.

Annalese Walmsley: I could have just typed it in. That would have just been easy.

Kristjan Byfield: It's got to be quicker just to type in we are not conference, isn't it? lord,…

Annalese Walmsley: It is the 5th of March.

Kristjan Byfield: Thursday the 5th of March. There we go people. So, you heard it,…

Annalese Walmsley: There we go. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: you didn't hear it here first because hopefully you've been seeing all the lovely little social posts that the ladies have been putting out about what is coming. but yeah, genuinely, if you don't delay. Book in your train ticket.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah.  Yeah. Mhm.

Kristjan Byfield: Like analy said, you can do it in a day, but if you've got the time and money, I would definitely recommend if you're not a London local, book yourself a hotel room and just make a bit of a day and an evening of it. But, don't come expecting to figure out how to increase your fees above 1%.  Don't come to find how to increase your valuation conversion rate, but do expect to walk out at that room With some new knowledge about I said, how to be a better colleague, manager, boss, owner, whatever it is, and whatever side of the sexual landscape you land on. yeah, I think it's just an amazing one. And I know I'm not going to give anything away.

Kristjan Byfield: I know they're also trying some new things this year with what's happening with the kind of supplier space and stuff, …

Kristjan Byfield: and again kind of doubling down on that it's not a conference be. and we're trying to come up with some fun shenanigans for the after party as well.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. …

Annalese Walmsley: always interesting seeing…

Kristjan Byfield: So, yeah.

Annalese Walmsley: what you guys bring to the table in terms of what we had Viking helmets and all sorts of things that I like the one…

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, we're coitating on fun products they were cool.

Annalese Walmsley: where you gave away the books as well. They were really good. I Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah, there was some really good one all about kind of female backed investment and green investments and…

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristjan Byfield: yeah, there's some really really cool stuff out there.

Kristjan Byfield: so yeah, and then, also because we touched on it very briefly, you did your thing with the two Russell podcast and I think we touched on before you're going to be going back for kind of an anniversary.

Annalese Walmsley: I'm gonna go back and do another one in the new year. So, probably around the same time. I'll try not to tie in for the women in a state agency conference this time. because I was exhausted for that event after doing that podcast the day before. however, yeah, basically we're going to do another podcast with them to talk about my journey since then and what has changed because a lot has changed. A lot of big decisions been made and…

Annalese Walmsley: yeah, I'm in a much better place than I was this time last year. So, I think it's more of I suppose the way I would position it is this is why you should talk, not just do the talking. This is why it works.

Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I think that's a good place for us to run.

Annalese Walmsley: Yeah, likewise.

Kristjan Byfield: We've only slightly run over the time that I finished by any I've been given cough blunch, but always an absolute pleasure and…

Annalese Walmsley: Thank you very much, Christian. Speak you soon,…

Kristjan Byfield: we'll talk soon, darling. Thanks for listening. Byebye.

Annalese Walmsley: darling. Bye bye.

Meeting ended after 00:43:46 👋

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