Mintz Condition: Property, Podcasts & Saying What Needs to Be Said

This week’s Viking Chat is full of big energy, blunt truths, and a big dose of Northern charm - because joining Kristjan is none other than David Mintz.

If you’re in agency and haven’t come across David yet, you’re in for a treat. Co-host of the brilliantly unpredictable Kerfuffle Podcast, long-standing estate and letting agent, and self-confessed industry “agent provocateur,” David brings charisma, candour and more quotables than your average awards dinner.

This episode is about more than lettings - it’s about how to lead with personality, build real client loyalty, and still have fun doing the job 20+ years in.

Here’s what we cover:

🏡 From Listings to Loudmouth (In the Best Way)

David shares how his career began, what’s kept him hooked on agency through boom, bust and burnout, and why your local reputation still matters more than your logo.

🎤 Podcasting, Provoking & Punchlines

As co-host of Kerfuffle, David knows how to walk the line between irreverent and insightful. He shares behind-the-scenes moments, the catharsis of unfiltered chat, and why humour is a better culture-builder than any mission statement.

🤝 Lettings with Laughter, Loyalty & Legacy

We get into the real stuff - what it means to stick around in this industry, why some agents have it and some don’t, and how being unapologetically yourself can be your biggest brand asset.

Expect:

• Cautionary tales and comedy gold
• Brutally honest takes on PropTech, portals and people
• Surprising reflections on kindness, connection and showing up with consistency

💬 Mintz-isms That’ll Make You Snort-Laugh

From “never trust an agent with no opinions” to “the CRM isn’t broken, you just never learned to use it,” this episode is packed with one-liners that are funny because they’re true.

David’s a natural storyteller, a master of banter - and beneath the laughs, a real advocate for doing this job with pride, patience and personality.

🎧 Tune in now. It’s got heart, hustle, and more sass than a morning team meeting on a Monday.

#VikingChats #DavidMintz #KerfufflePodcast #LettingsLife #AgencyUnfiltered #PropertyLeadership #KristjanChats #EstateAge

Transcript

Kristjan Byfield: Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of the Viking Chats. And I am delighted today to be joined by none other than the Minty Mcmminisonens of Minsville, Mr. David Vince.
David Mintz: Thank you. Thank you. It's lovely to be here.
Kristjan Byfield: Hello.
David Mintz: Hello.
Kristjan Byfield: I know I had to drag you kicking and screaming onto this podcast. I mean that and and and the the gentle messages I got
David Mintz: I'm I famously refuse to appear on this podcast. If you're not in the first seven episodes of of the season,
Kristjan Byfield: that
David Mintz: then then it's just a cameo role. But you know what?
David Mintz: That's also nice, I suppose.
Kristjan Byfield: Dude, I'm running the wrong longest ever season ever. the thing I used to publish all this stuff asked like what season you on and it's like I'm going to always be on season one. I want to get to like season one episode 1,263. Christian once again discusses the benefits of an integrated tech stack.
David Mintz: That sounds like thrilling
Kristjan Byfield: You know, we're living the dream.
David Mintz: stuff.
Kristjan Byfield: Breaking barriers, delivering fresh and unrivaled content.
David Mintz: Pushing that envelope.
Kristjan Byfield: Hello, my friend.
David Mintz: It's nice to be with you. You're a lovely
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, you know, kind of sometimes,
David Mintz: man.
Kristjan Byfield: most of the time, maybe. Uh, so, dude, I think, you know, probably the the biggest question on everyone's lips and kicking around their brain, I think, whenever anyone sees you being interviewed on a program has got to be semi PG version because we allow swearing on this podcast. What is it like to work with the shy, demure, and retiring Mr. Simon Whale on a day-to-day
 
 

00:07:26

 
David Mintz: Oh well well semi swearing it's kin nuts man.
Kristjan Byfield: basis?
David Mintz: Um it's it's it's crazy. I I think I mean we we've had a very honest chat about this off camera. Um and I will tell I will give you the more vanilla version of it. He's he's a maverick in every sense of the word. Um, and when you see him out in in a sort of social context at a conference, working the room, um, there are two two things that will strike you about him. If you catch him at an odd semi- sober moment, he is probably one of the the most intelligent people that you will ever get to have a conversation with in this industry. Um, and if you underestimate him, you do so at your own detriment.
Kristjan Byfield: And I you know that is something I think over the years I've repeatedly heard from people who who've got to know why socially on the conference scene and so they know slightly crazy conference why and then all of a sudden they're sat at like a very serious meeting or a board thing with with on it way and they're like who's it's the guy who looks like why sat over
 
 

00:08:38

 
David Mintz: Who who's this guy?
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: So there is a reason why that all of those companies want him in their
Kristjan Byfield: Heat.
David Mintz: boardrooms and and I think he's got a lot to lot to give despite he he always if you have a conversation with him or you ever catch him on a a podcast they'll always sort of say oh well I'm a I'm a relative sort of industry outsider. I've never done the the actual day job of a state agency, but he's been in this industry now for sort of more than three decades and and could put most of us to shame in terms of what he knows.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: And he still claims to know nothing, but he he knows an immense amount. Um, and I think his true skill is actually sort of connecting people. His black little black book and everybody knows him and he knows everybody.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: And I think one of the the nicer things I could say about him is that when you meet him socially, he's not precious.
 
 

00:09:34

 
David Mintz: So there's a lot of people in this industry who if you don't know them already, um you can't you can't just go up to them and sort of act pally patty with them. With why it doesn't matter who you are, you could be the guy that empties the bins. You could be the MD of a multibranch that he doesn't care big or how small what
Kristjan Byfield: No.
David Mintz: you've got in your bank account. And I think that's a lovely thing. I I remember when I when I first came to work for him, I'd kind of just walked out of a state agency world where we would
Kristjan Byfield: I was going to say,
David Mintz: seriously So I I'll give you this
Kristjan Byfield: what were those first few days like? Because I'm like, you know, coming from Normy and Co.
David Mintz: this story. This will make you shudder because you'll hate this kind of s***.
Kristjan Byfield: and
David Mintz: And it took me a while to deprogram myself, but I came out of a state agency world where we would debate whether or not the customer values you based on how what car you drive to the appointment.
 
 

00:10:30

 
David Mintz: So I always drove I as the principal kind of valuer, my my business partner would always make sure that I had lovely cars. I mean way lovelier than I could ever afford to to drive. So I drove BMWs, Mercedes, whatever. But they were all lovely. And um the purpose of that was that people must see you as as kind of successful enough to drive, you know. And when I turned around to when I came to work for way, I said to him, look, obviously I'm losing the car from the agency because I won't have that anymore. I'm just about to lease another car. Do I do I need to to look the is there a particular kind? And he was like, "Listen,
Kristjan Byfield: Get yourself a tuk tuk like you fit right
David Mintz: that anyone that's willing to judge you based on what car you drive,
Kristjan Byfield: in.
David Mintz: not worth dealing with." And I was like, "Right, I'll take that."
Kristjan Byfield: So I think this I think leads you to an interesting thing.
 
 

00:11:19

 
David Mintz: And
Kristjan Byfield: One that the you know talking about agency the eternal debate of how you present yourself. So you know a car is part of that what your office looks like blah blah blah but I still find this debate
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: about should you wear a suit should you wear a tie. I still find it quite interesting quite yeah quite I find it interesting how polarizing it is with some people because like I my position's always been wear what
David Mintz: It depends.
Kristjan Byfield: you feel comfortable in the past I remember we had a guy
David Mintz: Yeah, I suppose I I think
Kristjan Byfield: we employed years ago and he was like I've always he' done sales jobs all his life he' done agency and other stuff and he was like I I like I like being smart I like my three-piece suits like I feel like that's going to go against the grain here.
David Mintz: I I
Kristjan Byfield: And it was like, "No, dude. You want to rock up in a three-piece suit, you rock up in a three-piece suit.
 
 

00:12:15

 
Kristjan Byfield: You do you, my friend.
David Mintz: think it depends on who you are and your personality. and whether or not you could pull off what you're wearing. And and and by that I mean that if Christian Bfield were to turn up at my house to do evaluation in Short Ditch dressed in a three-piece suit and a top hat, I I mean actually I think you'd look amazing in that.
Kristjan Byfield: I
David Mintz: To be quite honest, I like the sound of that.
Kristjan Byfield: Okay.
David Mintz: But to be honest, there are certain people who when they're dressed up to the nine. So the when there there is a there was a right move rep called Phil Bates. He's still out there. I think he now works in HR, but he was our right move rep for years. And he his signature was that he would always wear like a a waist coat. You And now if I wore a waist coat, I would look like an overweight snooker player that is way past his best. and you throw me out your house, right?
 
 

00:13:11

 
David Mintz: But he could pull it off. So I guess what and likewise I kind of generally speaking when I go out and see people in their their homes I will wear a suit because that I I that does make me look slightly smarter when I wear when I dress down. I just I I tend to look like the caretaker. So to to me I think it's what you can pull off. I think also if your audience like where you are in Shortorditch, it's Trendyville.
Kristjan Byfield: But you see, so this is an interesting thing, this thing about where you are. Like I've had this debate quite a bit, particularly with London agent.
David Mintz: So
Kristjan Byfield: I remember actually having quite a surprisingly impassion conversation with someone a few years ago, EA Masters, and they were like Chelsea and Kensington agent, and they were like, "Oh, you couldn't possibly you could you couldn't possibly go to evaluation in our neighborhood dressed like that." Um, to which I was like,
David Mintz: I
Kristjan Byfield: I beg to differ. I was like, you know, do all your billionaire clients walk in in suits?
 
 

00:14:11

 
Kristjan Byfield: And they were like, no. Oh, God. No, they all come in jeans and trainers looking quite scruffy. And it's like, cool. So, you don't think dressing like your billionaire clients might work? Um, but for me, like not wearing a suit started way before um way before we started bass was during my first my first agency job in Islington. And everyone, and I mean everyone, was suited and booted. And that was really in like Foxton's prime tendency. That was when Foxton's was this kind of almost unstoppable force at that point in London,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: early 2000s. They were just eating everything alive. Um, and my thing was, you know, if I'm going to be one of three, four, five agents, the landlord's having coming through the door, you know, how do I stand out? And it was like, you know, it was that thing of I mean,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: we all kind of do the same job from a from a from a customer perspective,
David Mintz: I you know
 
 

00:15:12

 
Kristjan Byfield: like we can all sit here and drone on and on about the nuances of what we do and blah blah,
David Mintz: what
Kristjan Byfield: but from a customer perspective, they think we all pretty much do the same job.
David Mintz: we we had uh so we when you know at normie here in Manchester when we went when we took over the business we took over a very stuffy um old-fashioned business. It was the sort of place that your grandma and grandpa would would have sold the house with. You might have struggled to make that leap. So, one of the things we had to do is kind of drag it kicking and screaming into this day and age. And there was a couple of ways that we did it. But we had a very successful competition, a company uh who drove around in branded minis. I wonder where they got that idea from.
Kristjan Byfield: I mean I mean it's so
David Mintz: They they thought it was,
Kristjan Byfield: original
David Mintz: you know, and everything was a fresh perspective and all this, but one of one of their signature things,
 
 

00:16:04

 
Kristjan Byfield: a fresh perspective of someone else's
David Mintz: one of their signature moves was that they would turn up to your house in jeans and and whatever they were wearing. They they dressed down and it didn't stop them from winning business. So, I think you have to look the part. It needs to all fit together. There's no point in you walking in and you not feeling comfortable with what you're wearing.
Kristjan Byfield: See, and that's my thing. I think it's about how you feel, right? It's genuinely about who you feel. I mean, that said, it's also about your mindset, right? Like, you could dress me in anything and I in reality,
David Mintz: And I suppose it but it's also the band
Kristjan Byfield: I'd walk in through a door in anything and be like,
David Mintz: that you're in.
Kristjan Byfield: "Hello.
David Mintz: So if you're in the Beatles, you need to dress like one of the Beatles. And if you're in Iron Maiden, you need to dress like one of Iron Maiden. So the company, the band, the brand, you need to fit that image, too.
 
 

00:16:55

 
David Mintz: So, I guess bass is quite funky, so everybody dresses dresses the part. But, but if bass was a bit stuffy or a bit more traditional, then I guess you would also set a a a uniform policy or whatever it
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, it would kind of be juxtaposed,
David Mintz: is.
Kristjan Byfield: right? If you went,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, if we were called Crystal and White or something,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: you know,
David Mintz: You need every and actually I think that's probably something that you know in coaching perspectives you probably sort of look at what happens in in sports. The reason why, you know, there's a team identity. There absolutely is. And I think it helps to galvanize the team if everybody um not looks the same. You need a bit of diversity, but you need to have a similarish dress code. But it's bollocks. People will give you their business whether you're in your pajamas or whether you're But it's how you feel and whether you look the
Kristjan Byfield: It's who you feel because how you feel is how you'll come across,
 
 

00:17:45

 
David Mintz: part.
Kristjan Byfield: right? And it's it's how people react to you.
David Mintz: Yeah. and and and there is there's casual.
Kristjan Byfield: Your confidence, your tone, your
David Mintz: Yeah, there's casual and there's casual.
Kristjan Byfield: whatever.
David Mintz: So when I turn up to to your house in in a hoodie dressed a little bit like I am today. I'm sorry for turning up to your podcast like that.
Kristjan Byfield: How very dare you.
David Mintz: But it but but if I did,
Kristjan Byfield: I am in my pristine dinner
David Mintz: you know,
Kristjan Byfield: suit.
David Mintz: let me give you an example of a very good-looking man um who who is normally cash.
Kristjan Byfield: Anyway,
David Mintz: Someone like No,
Kristjan Byfield: enough about me. Who Who are you going to talk
David Mintz: forget you. Forget you. No, we have to use a different example.
Kristjan Byfield: about?
David Mintz: Um, Spencer Spencer Lawrence, you know,
Kristjan Byfield: Mr.
David Mintz: um,
Kristjan Byfield: Spencer,
David Mintz: his his version of casual,
Kristjan Byfield: one of my industry heroes.
 
 

00:18:34

 
David Mintz: his version of casual still looks quite smart. Ben Madden has got a weird thing going on where he's sort of it's casual up top and it's business down the bottom. So, he's wearing business trousers with a
Kristjan Byfield: I think I think that's just simply because he can't fit those f******
David Mintz: t-shirt.
Kristjan Byfield: biceps in a suit.
David Mintz: It's, you know,
Kristjan Byfield: Show off.
David Mintz: only if you're going to have biceps like that, why hide it? Is it
Kristjan Byfield: Well, exactly. If I was him, I'd be going around in a f****** Rabsy Nesbit kind ofesque string vest. See
David Mintz: So I don't I don't think I don't think it matters. There is something of the sort of the clientele that you do service, right? Um I'll never forget going out to somebody's house and they call me afterwards to say, "Sorry, but I'm not giving you the business." And I I had the audacity to ask why. Um, and they said, "Well, you were very good and you seem to know a lot about the local area and there's no doubt that you could sell this house, but you you weren't wearing a tie." And I was
 
 

00:19:32

 
Kristjan Byfield: Okay.
David Mintz: like, "And that makes the difference to you?" And this particular person, they were very very they were much older and they were very very traditional. To them, it meant so you will look, I would argue that anybody is going to be that pedantic. you do not want as a customer in the first.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh my lord. Can you imagine?
David Mintz: Can you imagine the viewings there? Because for all that we're for
Kristjan Byfield: They would they would be there and correct everything you said wrong in front of the
David Mintz: for all that we're able to control how we look and act
Kristjan Byfield: buyer.
David Mintz: on a professional appointment, once the viewers come into the house, it's like you've let the animals loose in the zoo because they have a mind of their own. they will say whatever they want to say and and and there's a certain point where they
Kristjan Byfield: There are they
David Mintz: just you know I and I actually love this about doing viewings if you sort of go quiet for a bit and let them get into their zone where they're especially couples who are communicating with each other and they feel comfortable enough to sort of say things about the house, you'll get to a point where they'll kind of open the door to the bathroom and go, "Oh my god, I I couldn't take a s*** in here. I couldn't Now,
 
 

00:20:46

 
David Mintz: now we live, warning to everybody, we now live in the day and age of extremely inexpensive Ring doorbells and and lots of nanny cams and all of that, you cannot get away with any of this stuff anymore. So all that stuff that comes out on viewings I I I some like one of my colleagues called the vendor to say so um yeah viewing went well and they're thinking about it and the vendor goes that's not what I heard on the Ring doorbell because they were having a conversation on the driveway and the and the conversation was well we like it but we you know
Kristjan Byfield: Do you like it? Not really.
David Mintz: and I think you you know really Good tip
Kristjan Byfield: You going to offer? Absolutely not.
David Mintz: to to anybody in property is just assume that somebody's always watching and listening. I know it's creepy, but just assume that somebody's always watching and listening.
Kristjan Byfield: Possibly Simon Whale. We we keep on getting I was outside base and no one
David Mintz: And if Simon if Simon Whales listening, then just let let Simon Wh let let it go.
 
 

00:21:46

 
Kristjan Byfield: answered.
David Mintz: As to get back to your original question of what it's like to work for Simon Whale, um he behind closed doors, he is like any other boss sometimes. I mean, he won't like to hear me say that,
Kristjan Byfield: I mean,
David Mintz: but he can be,
Kristjan Byfield: I'm a boss,
David Mintz: you know.
Kristjan Byfield: so I'm assuming you mean like all bosses, we're just fabulous,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: incredible human beings
David Mintz: Just like, yeah, I need this. I need this. I need this doing.
Kristjan Byfield: who
David Mintz: Great. Okay. Is it done yet? No. You just asked me to do it now. I'm gonna have to do it. Right. Do you know when it all of that?
Kristjan Byfield: now.
David Mintz: Look, he's he's um uh one
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, but that's fine because you work for such a a a critically organized and
David Mintz: thing.
Kristjan Byfield: wellplanned individual that all that stuff, you know, you got plenty of lead in time with
 
 

00:22:34

 
David Mintz: I I'm I'm going to give you a football analogy that only Simon well would would perhaps appreciate. Um just because you are a star striker and you will score loads of goals does not mean you're going to be the best manager in the world.
Kristjan Byfield: I
David Mintz: You might be a better player than you are a manager. And I think that I come across.
Kristjan Byfield: don't think he's the first person to use that
David Mintz: No, probably not.
Kristjan Byfield: analogy.
David Mintz: But I think there's plenty of companies out there who have got, you know, there's bosses at the helm that are are amazing at what they do. They're just not the best managers in the world.
Kristjan Byfield: I don't think I'm a, you know, Ann and I have questions over our management skills.
David Mintz: So
Kristjan Byfield: I think I think we're good leaders in terms of what in what is the brand, what is the business, where are we going, and like strategic decisions,
David Mintz: yeah,
Kristjan Byfield: but we we struggle with the day-to-day management stuff.
David Mintz: I think everybody does because it's it's people skills at the end of the day and then you have to kind of the commercial realities also hit home.
 
 

00:23:34

 
David Mintz: So, you want to bend over backwards to be groovy, cool, and woke, and whatever it is that you consider yourself to be, and make it an environment that everybody's really comfortable in. We're all a team. We're all a family. And then you'll you'll go, "Hang on, this member of the family is not bringing in as much as the others. I'm sorry, grandma,
Kristjan Byfield: about your
David Mintz: but you've got to go." And and do you know what?
Kristjan Byfield: inheritance.
David Mintz: That's that's one of the things I I sit in all these Facebook groups as I know you do as well where estate agents will talk about management styles and so on and I I saw somebody sort of say I hate it when people say um at such and such a company we're family. I think that's bollocks because you're not a family and at the end of the day you can't afford to treat
Kristjan Byfield: Have you seen how some families treat one
David Mintz: people.
Kristjan Byfield: another?
David Mintz: I know how I know how families treat one another and it's the it's the
 
 

00:24:27

 
Kristjan Byfield: Have you seen how some families treat one another?
David Mintz: worst, especially where money's involved.
Kristjan Byfield: I think there are people out there going, "f****** hell, I wish my family treated myself
David Mintz: You You only need to You only need to try and sell a couple of houses that are going through
Kristjan Byfield: that.
David Mintz: probate to understand how complicated family structures can
Kristjan Byfield: The other thing you only have to do is to run any sort of business and after 10 years look back and see
David Mintz: be.
Kristjan Byfield: how much business your family has given you. Cuz I guarantee for 98% of people it's either going to be f*** all or what has been generated is like yeah but you yeah but you give me like 80% off right because
David Mintz: It's It's tough acting for family. I've um I've done it and you always end up regretting it in the end
Kristjan Byfield: I've I've done a couple of bits of family,
David Mintz: somehow.
Kristjan Byfield: but I think I think the thing I find fascinating is like, you know, I've I've what had we've had base now 20 nearly 22 years.
 
 

00:25:30

 
Kristjan Byfield: I've been doing this job for 24 years. like the amount of times like I'll be having a conversation with my family and something will come up about some property thing that they've been trying to deal with and it's like um I mean like a few years ago my sister I was out for dinner with my sister this was at the time when we ran used to run a full like
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: refurb team which we've kind of scaled back on now but um but at the time we were doing projects for people left right and center didn't matter red deck full bathroom whatever um and I'd recently
David Mintz: Sure.
Kristjan Byfield: just helped my sister sell her flat and helped negotiate the buy for like next to nothing. We go out for dinner and my sister goes, "Oh, you won't believe the troubles I'm having." And we're like, "Oh, yeah. What's going Well, you know, I brought this guy in to do my bathroom and it's chaos." I mean, I was just sat there like, "Sorry,
David Mintz: Did you do not think to ask?
 
 

00:26:30

 
Kristjan Byfield: no." like
David Mintz: Yeah, it's it's um yeah,
Kristjan Byfield: hi.
David Mintz: it's it's difficult, but that's that's family. You can't choose them.
Kristjan Byfield: But I also find that psychology, right? And and this just generally business speaking, I find the psychology, this whole friends and family thing fascinating because talk to a friend and family who's got someone who's doing some sort of business, whether it's selling crap from their bedroom or or, you know, employing people and running an office and blah blah blah, whatever. and they'll be very proud. They'll they'll tell their friends and their family and they'll about how proud they are that little Johnny or little Samantha or wherever the f whoever the hell they are what they're doing and isn't it amazing and blah blah blah blah. Um six months later they'll be talking to said friend who's, you know, who's looking to sell. Will they mention little Johnny or little Samantha once in that conversation? No. If it comes up in the conversation, what's probably the first thing they'll say?
 
 

00:27:33

 
Kristjan Byfield: Let me have a word with them. I'm sure I can get them to massively reduce the
David Mintz: It's interesting when you act for friends,
Kristjan Byfield: price.
David Mintz: when you do end up acting for friends, it it shows you somehow it's that test of friendship because ultimately if the business that we're in, as I believe it is, is all down to trust and friendship ship actually should be the truest form of trust, shouldn't it? Really, that's what it's all about. You then find out which of your friends actually do trust you or which of which of them are being assholes trying to second guessess everything you're saying, asking for second opinion. I just called uh I just called somebody else to to ask like, you know, in that situation, you then find out actually those people are not worth dealing with. They're very nice to have dinner with every three months or whatever it may be, but they're not friends.
Kristjan Byfield: But it's really funny. I have this rule with friends and and I'm sure there have been a couple exceptions over the years,
 
 

00:28:24

 
David Mintz: Um,
Kristjan Byfield: but I have a general rule with friends. Like if a friend offers something, they do something or I'm like, "Oh, I know." Like a couple of years ago, one of our one of one of our friends, one of our like school parent friend circle makes these really nice bougie soaps, handmade soaps at home. And it was like, "Cool. Do you know what? like we don't do big presents in the family cuz we're like just just I don't need another pair of socks or another bar of chocolate or just something that I'll or a book that I'll never read. Um, so we were like, "Do you know what? Everyone uses soap and these are really, really nice, so we'll we'll buy everyone a soap, you know, and we went to them and I was like, you know, we'll buy like 25." And she was like, "Oh, oh, you know, you're buying 25. Like, let me see what I can do for you on a discount." And I was like, "Why? Well, I mean, you're buying a lot and you're a friend." And I was like,
 
 

00:29:23

 
Kristjan Byfield: "So, you're selling a product that I think is going to make a really nice present. So, how much?
David Mintz: But we we all but but I guess I guess we all do it,
Kristjan Byfield: Cool.
David Mintz: don't we? We all think somewhere it has been drummed into us that it's a good thing. I mean, and and with me genetically, I think it's probably programmed into us that it might I know it's a horrible stereotype, but it's good to try and grab yourself a bit of a bargain.
Kristjan Byfield: Oh,
David Mintz: Um,
Kristjan Byfield: dang.
David Mintz: and you would expect you would therefore expect by extension of that that perhaps when you're using a friend to do, but I think it's the worst money off that you can ever get because I think your friend ends up resenting it. So, if they've discounted a service to you, you never feel like you're getting the full service because uh or or worse, I mean, I know with me, I go the other way.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: I'll probably give you even better than than my normal service and I'm charging a pittance and I will actually at the end of the day feel a little bit hard done by.
 
 

00:30:24

 
David Mintz: I won't say anything because I'm such a nice man. But, you know, that's no good for people. So, I think you know, treat everybody including family. charge them all a full fee.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, but also like,
David Mintz: And if they don't want to deal with
Kristjan Byfield: you know, but also kind of, you know, if you're talking to family,
David Mintz: you
Kristjan Byfield: just just just engage a little bit of thought before you engage that conversation. If you're not good on the spot, like maybe do a bit of prep. So, we left my sister's house about six months ago. She tried to sell it, didn't work. I It was great. She totally ignored my advice for the first two estate agents trying to sell it. finally listened on the third. Got Vicki and Location location on the case. They were as expected f****** amazing.
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I think the first two agents over like four months did something like 10 viewings and on the first weekend Vicki like location did a block viewing were like 35 people and got like three offers.
 
 

00:31:21

 
Kristjan Byfield: So I was like, you see what happens?
David Mintz: Heat.
Kristjan Byfield: But anyway, didn't get the price she wanted. So decided, right, not going to sell now. So I went graveling to Vicki team being like sorry, sorry, sorry. They're like, don't worry, do sales enough. We get it. Now, I'd also been talking for months with my sister, right, about, you know, if you don't want to sell, this is what you're going to, you know, you could let, but you need to consider tax and renters's rights tax. Anyway, doing all this. So, sure enough, my sister tells me, right, not going to sell, you know, we're going to let it out. So, I'm like waiting for the call. Um, and in comes the call from my sister. So, hey Chris, I've been talking to some of the local agents. I'm like, okay, good place to start. You you you're getting your research. You're knowing the landscape. You're checking how to call your brother out on s***.
 
 

00:32:17

 
Kristjan Byfield: Absolutely fine. Now, bearing in mind, not only is this woman my sister, she worked for me at base for a year.
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: The next line that fell out of her face was, "So, a local agent offered me let and fully managed all-incclusive 8%. Sounds like a bit of a ripoff to me." To which I
David Mintz: Oh my word.
Kristjan Byfield: nearly f****** laughed myself out of the seat. Because for those of you who don't know, and I'm sure there are some agents who might listen to this and be like, "Eight%." Yeah, I mean, that's the going rate. Um, I immediately turn around to Tanya and I was like, Tanya, you you remember we charge 18%. Yeah. Not not eight, 18. 10 and eight. Oh,
David Mintz: No.
Kristjan Byfield: and where do you go from that? I mean, look, in the end, I went back to my sister and I was like, "Look, I'd rather because it's you, match that fee and we do it, but on the condition that you just let us get on and do our job,
 
 

00:33:24

 
David Mintz: My
Kristjan Byfield: not going to consult you on anything. We will just get it done." I said because I'd rather do that than you go off to an
David Mintz: Imh.
Kristjan Byfield: agent which in London if they're doing 8% including that fully managed they don't have a lot of faith in their own service compliance I don't think it's going to be there navigating the renters's rights
David Mintz: Mhm.
Kristjan Byfield: act they're probably one of the agents still adamant it's not going to happen um you know so I was just like at the end of the day rather than pick this all apart and have my sister weeping down the phone because she's not at rent for the last three months and the agent's not returning her calls. But I I just I find this whole friends and family thing fascinating. Like once in a blue moon you'll meet a family or a mate. Not necessarily like that benefits us but you know in the circle of people doing business and you're like that that is what family allyship and that is what friendship looks like.
 
 

00:34:23

 
Kristjan Byfield: When you've got a friend that is running, building, growing, starting a business is all in.
David Mintz: Yeah. Not
Kristjan Byfield: Give them everything. I don't want a discount.
David Mintz: 100%.
Kristjan Byfield: Do you know what? I'll pay everything. When you become a millionaire, just, you know, treat me then. Take me on a holiday to the Bahamas for a week or something. But right now, you know, s**** and giggles. So, look, I I I queued up this article before we got started because um we're talking about the workplace and and attitudes and stuff. Um and following on from uh my little contribution uh to the podcast, the Kuruffle podcast on Sunday,
David Mintz: Yes, thank
Kristjan Byfield: um which for those who didn't see that,
David Mintz: you.
Kristjan Byfield: um I I asked you guys for your thoughts on a LinkedIn post that Mr. Russell Jarvis of Raina Personnel had shared on LinkedIn. Um, and that was a prospective client business that had approached them with a view to them doing their recruitment and they had I don't know if they'd put it in writing, but they had stated to him,
 
 

00:35:31

 
David Mintz: Expressive.
Kristjan Byfield: "We don't hire women." Um, and Russell, to his credit, had gone online and relayed this event and said, "Obviously, we turned them away." Um, but and and and this was and I and I believe he took it this way. This was in no way calling Russell out because I think anyone who who, you know,
David Mintz: Did the right
Kristjan Byfield: anyone who just brings this stuff to air and shows that it is still happening,
David Mintz: thing.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, for those people who are like, "Do we need a women in the stages event? Do do women really need like support in the workplace? Um, yeah. But as I as I said on that, you know, it's it's good to see it called out, but can we be going further? Should I mean, they weren't a client. Should they be named or shamed for something that egregious? Because like they're not a client. You don't owe any protection to them. Would other people be sensitive? I mean, I'd like to think the only company that that might go, "Oh, I'm not contacting them." would be a company with similar attitudes or beliefs in their business.
 
 

00:36:37

 
David Mintz: I think you've probably got some I think it's a that's a basic legal question really
Kristjan Byfield: So,
David Mintz: as to whether or not I I think I think you do.
Kristjan Byfield: you or you silently report them. That's my other thing. You You're not going to join
David Mintz: Look, I think if the practice is illegal,
Kristjan Byfield: today.
David Mintz: so I'll remind the state agents who are watching this that you have a a duty not to discriminate against people making offers on houses or wanting to view houses. You can't turn people away based on their gender, their color of their skin, their ethnicity, um what they're wearing. It it doesn't matter.
Kristjan Byfield: etc.
David Mintz: We just can't do that anymore.
Kristjan Byfield: wearing you can do I think right because you can have that detailed in your terms of employment of dress code.
David Mintz: Yeah, I think you I think you you probably could do but in but in but just to look in in general I think you can't you know you have a legal duty to sort of say right well you know
 
 

00:37:27

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. It's not about the person,
David Mintz: we so so I have I've turned away I have turned away
Kristjan Byfield: it's about the work.
David Mintz: um sellers in the past who have said to me I'm very happy to go ahead before we go on the market I'd just like to say there's certain people that I don't want to sell this house to because I won't do that to my neighbors
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.
David Mintz: and and I and I've I've instantly at that point stood up and gone thank you very much. We won't be doing business together. And if then pushed as to why, then you give them a piece of your mind because at that point you ain't got nothing to
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: lose.
Kristjan Byfield: And if if they don't get why you're immediately standing up, then then they probably explain
David Mintz: Then I think but I think that's up to you to draw that line and I think you can you can do it. As for publicly naming and shaming, we haven't got that far in our uh progressive movement yet to be able to get to the point where all of us are very comfortable to put our commercial um our commercial hats to one side and go it doesn't matter.
 
 

00:38:38

 
David Mintz: I mean I I spoke about where did I speak about this? It might have been on the podcast. I just think it's a reality of this industry and it's a sad reality of this industry that you cannot be straight talking all the time. You can't necessarily say what you want to say because you have to be mindful of not pissing off people. Now, I know you don't really care about that. I know you don't really care about that, but there are a lot of people who who do. So what they will do, what Russell did was going as far as he could without actually causing either legal problems
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah,
David Mintz: or actually getting to the point where you you name the shame. And and the other
Kristjan Byfield: that is better than saying nothing like they did the right thing and turned them away,
David Mintz: thing
Kristjan Byfield: but then that could have been the end of it and not mentioned it. So, so you know it's it's better than nothing of sharing the fact that s***
 
 

00:39:24

 
David Mintz: Oh, completely. He did he he did the right thing.
Kristjan Byfield: still happens.
David Mintz: I think I think um there is something else that bothers me about naming and shaming is that occasionally if you're overzealous with naming and shaming, you could actually out somebody before they're actually guilty. Do you know what I mean? Where you where you jump to conclusions and go that's it by a massive
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, you do. You do have No, you I mean you better be bloody confident.
David Mintz: misogynist. I'm going to make that.
Kristjan Byfield: Like they better have literally said over the phone like categorically no women don't send
David Mintz: You have you have to be well but you you have to weigh up you have you have to weigh up what
Kristjan Byfield: us
David Mintz: what your what your sort of I think there's one there is one group of of people who do that whole commercial weighing up thing very delicately and ironically it is the women and estate agency. They are you you my friend are probably far much more of a militant feminist than most of them come across as.
 
 

00:40:21

 
David Mintz: So they're doing great things for the industry. They're doing great things for women and that they're getting the message out there. The fact that there is a conference that's not a conference and all of that sort of stuff. It's amazing. I'm not decrying that for a second. But there is a part of me that sometimes wants to shake them and go,
Kristjan Byfield: know it's good,
David Mintz: "Girls, please fight somebody.
Kristjan Byfield: but I I love that terrifying gorilla like what accountability of the likes of Ellie Ree. I I love that like f*** you, I won't be quiet. f*** you, I'm not turning it down. And f*** you, you're out of order. Like not that Ellie swears on social media. So Ellie, I've just turned you into profanityfueled uh uh monster. But no, I've I've I've always admired that. Um yeah, that that that No,
David Mintz: Alm.
Kristjan Byfield: you know what?
David Mintz: and and Nick Nick Broom people like that they you know that's the reason
 
 

00:41:16

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: why actually when Nick and Ellie were both I think chair and vice chair of uh the other the people's front of Judea what were they called um the uh women
Kristjan Byfield: the the property professional women in women in women in
David Mintz: in estate agency and then there's work women in
Kristjan Byfield: Noah.
David Mintz: residential property See,
Kristjan Byfield: Weren't you on the border for
David Mintz: so I I was I was ally ship lead um because I had all the
Kristjan Byfield: something?
David Mintz: credentials for it.
Kristjan Byfield: You were foul mints on
David Mintz: But one of the things that I liked about them at the time was that they were
Kristjan Byfield: the
David Mintz: very militant. Ellie is as militant and she she doesn't like it that people call her shouty. Um, but she is and she's willing to sort of ruffle a few feathers, break a few eggs to make this beautiful omelette that we're all trying to cook. Um, and at work actually the the sad reality is that that and it's a lovely thing that it exists.
 
 

00:42:22

 
David Mintz: Um, but it's owned as well by a commercial entity. That commercial entity has got interests and doesn't want to necessarily piss people off. So they don't want to set the world on fire. They don't want to and and I actually think that it's a thing we we have to be mindful that that you know that there's a concerted effort and a considered effort by u the boards of these organizations including we who of whom we're so fond that they have to sit in those boardrooms and they have to think well hang on we are walking that very delicate tight rope. There's a part of me that wants them to say, "Actually, f*** this." Now,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah,
David Mintz: can we can can we can we have a conference where actually we do shout about the fact
Kristjan Byfield: I think
David Mintz: that people are afraid to go off on maternity leave because they might never ever get to come back. Um, can we talk about flexible work? All the boring stuff that they're going to think is very much below them because they're much they're at a higher level.
 
 

00:43:25

 
David Mintz: Those basic things are the things that bother people. Um and the things that actually small businesses up and down this country and who form the majority of our industry often fall fall foul of. They do. They're not
Kristjan Byfield: Look,
David Mintz: performing.
Kristjan Byfield: I I mean I I I'm not sure I agree with you on the commercial aspect of like you have to be careful. You don't have to piss too many people off. Look, I will I will give it the caveat of it depends what business you're trying to build. If you're trying to build something absolutely huge that appeals to everyone or as many people as possible, then yes, you have to be careful. But that's not your typical estate agent. Um, you also have to factor in your local community and your local audience, right? So if you are in a very traditional old-fashioned little village with lots of people around or postretirement age um you know probably don't do the gay pride display that we did a couple of years
 
 

00:44:25

 
David Mintz: Oh god, I thought you know when you raised your arm there,
Kristjan Byfield: ago
David Mintz: I thought you were actually doing a Nazi salute then. Um I was gonna see. But certainly don't do that.
Kristjan Byfield: probably that no certainly don't do that but you know you think about your audience
David Mintz: Don't do that.
Kristjan Byfield: And you know, when we when we got lambasted for that a couple of years ago and and I'm not even going to talk about the the Turning Point saga, but some of the commentary that came from other agents, you know, I specifically remember one being, oh my god,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: you know, if we' done that in our in our village, they'd have smashed our windows in. It's like, I'm not I'm not in a village.
David Mintz: No, you're in Cosmopolitan
Kristjan Byfield: I'm I'm in there. There's a sex toy shop across the street.
David Mintz: London.
Kristjan Byfield: There's another one off the back. And there's like five strip clubs within 100 meters of our front door. It's it's fine.
 
 

00:45:05

 
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: This is not Willington on on on the world in in the our sender nowhere with Yeah. You know, so so know your audience. But I do genuinely think no matter what you're doing or selling with those caveats in mind, I think you can dig your heels in and be a bit salty. And I think you can take some big stands and like
David Mintz: you you can do, but you have to be brave. And I just believe though that there is an element, and I'm not calling anybody out on this, but it is my belief that these organizations often fall short of the mark because they pull their punches because they have to play the game. And there is the long game, and I get that the long game is I'm playing by your rules. So, I'd rather have incremental progress than be thrown out of the room all together and never and be told never come back again. So, it takes a hell of a lot of balls. Ironically, we're talking about the feminism.
 
 

00:46:11

 
David Mintz: Oh, well done, Dave. You know, massive ovaries to walk into them rooms. Um,
Kristjan Byfield: question.
David Mintz: no, but you do. And look, I I know Stephen Brown and I recently had a very honest chat about and I I've never made any secret.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: I don't believe I ever could. They're just very Jewish, right? But o but but ste you know Stephen I've known him for years and I look I the minute I clocked him I knew he was one of us but he he would never openly talk about it or say anything about it. And if you were to ask him what I was with him last night, we had dinner together. He's very lovely man. And I said that was an I I said that was really unexpected that conversation. And he sort of explained that he he has been brought up in a world where it's all right to be different as long as you you don't push your differences too much. And so therefore when and and it can matter in business.
 
 

00:47:11

 
David Mintz: So,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah,
David Mintz: I'm fully I am fully aware I'm fully aware that people have to take the wins that
Kristjan Byfield: different.
David Mintz: they can get and the people make decisions every day not to upset the apple c because they're going to get a little bit further than if they went in two feet first and said actually this is wrong and I want something doing about it right now. So, there is that delicate balance of diplomacy.
Kristjan Byfield: Hold
David Mintz: I do you know what I do admire if you were to sort of if I were to sort of close my eyes and try and work out almost a bit you know a bit like the queen was just always very serene in every kind of you know and you could roll her out at any event and she would always say the right thing at the right I mean she admittedly one of her children went rogue and I get that but Verona which one of her
Kristjan Byfield: on. Which one are we talking about now?
David Mintz: children were like, "No,
 
 

00:48:07

 
Kristjan Byfield: Because I mean there's going rage which is the one that skips off to America.
David Mintz: but but but Veron Verona,
Kristjan Byfield: Another one. I'm not sure I would classify his behavior as
David Mintz: I know they Verona, I know they refer to her as Queen V,
Kristjan Byfield: rogue.
David Mintz: but she is so diplomatic. If you want a lesson in diplomacy and how to sort of hold yourself in
Kristjan Byfield: Oh,
David Mintz: public,
Kristjan Byfield: she's the queen of the corporate landscape, right?
David Mintz: she you you only have to look at the comment that she made on on because I released a clip of of us covering your comment on the thing and it's perfectly on message.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: It's supporting it's saying this is why we need women but and it's without going too hard
Kristjan Byfield: Doesn't go further.
David Mintz: or too soft.
Kristjan Byfield: Doesn't double down on my Doesn't answer my question.
David Mintz: It's just but it's well
Kristjan Byfield: She she she like a like a great politician.
David Mintz: yeah but but
Kristjan Byfield: Should this be called that reported?
 
 

00:48:52

 
David Mintz: but my only if if I could have anything for Christmas this
Kristjan Byfield: disgraceful.
David Mintz: year um it would be that actually yeah let's see a little
Kristjan Byfield: I'm not I'm not sure you can order Verona on your Christmas present
David Mintz: bit I could not afford that.
Kristjan Byfield: list.
David Mintz: I could not I could I I could not afford that.
Kristjan Byfield: I'm not sure that how it works, my friend.
David Mintz: But I No, but if I could order anything on my Christmas Christmas list, it would be that all of us take a little bit more strength to be able to say the things that we actually know will make discernable differences to not tow the line to not necessarily always play the game.
Kristjan Byfield: But I think an important part I think an important part of
David Mintz: The establishment rely on us playing the game.
Kristjan Byfield: that though is is you can call someone out without calling them a c***. You can you can you can tell someone they're being a bit c**** without making it about them. So you can do it with a smile on your face.
 
 

00:49:53

 
Kristjan Byfield: You can do it with a hand on the shoulder.
David Mintz: Yeah. You can do it with love.
Kristjan Byfield: You can be like, "Dad, dude,
David Mintz: You can do it with love.
Kristjan Byfield: I love you, but what just fell out of your face is really not okay." And as someone who likes and respects you, I'm just letting you know, maybe don't let that one fall out
David Mintz: But but there is this sense that you know the irony of two and I know Carla will be looking at this later on
Kristjan Byfield: again.
David Mintz: and she'll be and and she'll be spitting feathers because she's going to say why two
Kristjan Byfield: It's all right. I'm gonna man,
David Mintz: two privileged white men two privileged white men are chatting about women's
Kristjan Byfield: so don't worry about it.
David Mintz: rights again and saying that we're not made how dare they and all this sort of stuff. And and she's right. There is a sense that when we're having this chat and we're talking about it, I I'm thinking that actually, you know, who am I to to does it take to them how they how they do things?
 
 

00:50:44

 
David Mintz: I am a little I just feel like I wanted a bit more.
Kristjan Byfield: Everyone's entire to opinion and every movement needs an
David Mintz: I want a bit more bra burning. I wanted that from work.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: I never got it. I think the charter, by the way, is a great step in the right direction because what they're saying is if if you're saying you walk the walk, then to you know, you talk the talk, you may as well walk the walk as well. And so pin it to your your your company values, sign up to it, say that you do agree with it and support women in that way. um whether or not it's make it's actually making change. And this is what we debated on on the podcast, whether or not all of these movements are actually making change for the people that need it the
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, I mean as we always say, right, the people who need to be in the room most,
David Mintz: most.
Kristjan Byfield: we can we can wax lyrical about how fantastic the we are not conferences, um the the the uh lanyard event.
 
 

00:51:41

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um, you know, we can talk about how mindopening and mindaltering and blah blah blah blah it is, but the people who most need to be in that room are never going to be sat in that room,
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: right?
David Mintz: And and and I and I think that the message that comes out that room is that you you know we all have stories, we all have struggles and you're able to share that more and we're going to understand each other more. Um, but is it going to change employment law and the waiver that's enacted in our companies? are we going to give you know are and and actually whilst we're at it all the same 20% of the people that we see at all the conferences the esters the kafuffle conference the EA masters that's a small one that I've never really heard of but EA masters the negotiator conference all of these places it's the
Kristjan Byfield: Don't forget Don't forget Ran, my
David Mintz: same ran the relocation agent network but we
Kristjan Byfield: friend.
David Mintz: we see all the same people at the same confers the same kind of companies.
 
 

00:52:44

 
David Mintz: We are pitching to the top 20%. All there are a ton of women. There are a ton of people that are stuck in like little corners of the country in small
Kristjan Byfield: Any
David Mintz: estate agencies. They will never get to see Verona talking on stage.
Kristjan Byfield: other 18?
David Mintz: They will never get to feel the feeling in that room. How do we get them? How do we enable them because their bosses will never pay for it to step out of those roles and actually get
Kristjan Byfield: I mean,
David Mintz: into that room?
Kristjan Byfield: Mincy, the good news is uh for anyone who reads the Telegraph and it is it is where I turn to for any for for just general amusement really and to remind me how bad s*** some people are. I mean, maybe all this stuff is is done and irrelevant because I don't know if anyone can see that, but uh the article that caught my eye the other day and it's showing
David Mintz: Well, we're we're we're into epic mansplaining territory today already.
 
 

00:53:33

 
Kristjan Byfield: it.
David Mintz: It's I think we're going to get cancelled after
Kristjan Byfield: Aren't we just I mean importantly James Jeffrey of the Telegraph
David Mintz: this.
Kristjan Byfield: the title of the article is it's time to start mansplaining again. I'm not really sure when that stopped. And then the the the kind of the further explanation beneath goes on to say the feminist push to silence men has been bad for everyone. I mean, if the article in that by line doesn't make you piss yourself and roll your eyes quite enough,
David Mintz: But but do you not do you not feel that
Kristjan Byfield: just just go and read the two and a half thousand comments that sit beneath
David Mintz: do you know when when you used to sort of um so when I was a kid there were newspapers
Kristjan Byfield: There.
David Mintz: and there were newspapers. So I remember my granddad always used to read the the Telegraph because it was I remember it
Kristjan Byfield: It was a broad sheet.
David Mintz: as being this massive newspaper that you had to massive broad
 
 

00:54:31

 
Kristjan Byfield: It broad sheet means it must be incredibly serious and
David Mintz: sheet and and the Times and the Times back then
Kristjan Byfield: and
David Mintz: was still that way as well. You we all knew that grandma read the Daily Mail because she was secretly racist.
Kristjan Byfield: not always that
David Mintz: Um and and she want she wanted a mix of celebrity gossip and
Kristjan Byfield: secretly.
David Mintz: and Colonel Gaddafi trying to take over the world, that kind of thing. Um and then and then there were other newspapers, so you knew that The Sun was always going to give you the working man's view and on page three you were going to get an Eiffel. Um it would, you know, you'd you'd get call blimey, what a scorch or whatever it was as your headline. it was taking it to the to the lowest common denominator. You had the Daily Star which was again another step out into and then all the way at the end you'd have the Daily Sport which ironically never had anything sporting in it. Okay.
 
 

00:55:28

 
David Mintz: But but was always a great read and I miss it. But but what I want to say is today in today's landscape of media, it is really really difficult to pick up the telegraph and consider it as serious as it once was. It is
Kristjan Byfield: Well, see, this is the thing, right? So, so with the telegraph, they had this whole thing.
David Mintz: effectively
Kristjan Byfield: I can't I don't know if it's even gone through. there was someone looking to buy them and there was this whole thing of like, oh, we must retain our journalistic freedom and our journalistic integrity and all this sort of stuff
David Mintz: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: and I was like, are you s******* me? Have you read half the articles you've put out in the last
David Mintz: It's it it's click ultimately.
Kristjan Byfield: year?
David Mintz: Are you going to sell um are you going to sell newspapers without clickbait? Are you but are you there to hold you know we had this debate about industry press and I think we've concluded well and truly because and and actually the irony of it is that I dug up a clip of me talking about industry press three years ago and way said to me think I think you might want to change the title of that clip because it might it might mean that they reject all our press releases but that's what we're talking
 
 

00:56:39

 
Kristjan Byfield: much like much like you called out my line of saying if people can't do an elevator pitch they they clearly can't sell their product and you were like, "Yeah, dude. You spent an hour f****** what it was your product
David Mintz: But the point is you you want I want to live in a world where actually my press
Kristjan Byfield: does.
David Mintz: will hold you know will talk truth to power. They will they will they will hold politicians accountable. They will not just tow the line. They won't make decisions made based on their own um you know
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, they can have an opinion,
David Mintz: commercial interest.
Kristjan Byfield: but it it's substanced in verifiable facts,
David Mintz: So,
Kristjan Byfield: right?
David Mintz: one of my favorite
Kristjan Byfield: Let's start with some verifiable facts and then you can have whatever opinion interpretation of those facts
David Mintz: podcasts,
Kristjan Byfield: you want. But let's
David Mintz: one of my favorite podcast is the news agents and that is um
Kristjan Byfield: not
David Mintz: that's Emily Mateless John.
 
 

00:57:33

 
Kristjan Byfield: I was last night talking about Trump's letter to
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Norway.
David Mintz: John John Soaper and Lewis Gur. And I love their style of journalism because they they've all been released from the BBC shackles. So they're not afraid to say what they need to say.
Kristjan Byfield: gives it gives that freedom. They talk a little bit more humanly. There's the odd swear word in there and they talk just like highly intelligent
David Mintz: Yeah. And that's and so whilst we're at it,
Kristjan Byfield: friends.
David Mintz: every we're we're now doing this this weird male echo chamber that we call a podcast, which is two men who love the sound of their own voice talking to each other.
Kristjan Byfield: Hey, there have been plenty of women on this podcast, my friend.
David Mintz: Hey,
Kristjan Byfield: They they give it to me and
David Mintz: whilst whilst we're at whilst we're at it,
Kristjan Byfield: and
David Mintz: one of the women who was on this podcast, Ellie Ree, we were talking she's a big voice noter. So, if you are texting with her, eventually she'll go to voice note mode.
 
 

00:58:27

 
David Mintz: And I actually think voice note is for the podcast generation because if you're the kind of wanker as I am who sends a voice note and then listens back to it and go yeah what I what I said was
Kristjan Byfield: I I feel like a a statement Alex ears are tingling tingling somewhere in the Brazilian
David Mintz: great.
Kristjan Byfield: rainforest.
David Mintz: What's tingling in your rainforest, my friend?
Kristjan Byfield: Alex from estate apps with all this
David Mintz: Uh, Alex was the the original voice noter.
Kristjan Byfield: com voice notes.
David Mintz: I never and
Kristjan Byfield: I don't know. Do they get infiltrated by the by the Brazilian
David Mintz: I don't know. I never understood the point of voice notes.
Kristjan Byfield: or
David Mintz: It was halfway between sending a message and making a phone call. But and they used to irritate me, but actually I now understand why people do it. They do like the sound sound of their own voice. Do you remember as a kid when the first time you ever hear your own voice recorded and played back to you and you go, "Oh god,
 
 

00:59:25

 
Kristjan Byfield: I don't sound anything like
David Mintz: I don't like that." But in this day and age,
Kristjan Byfield: that.
David Mintz: we're all used to seeing ourselves recorded because we've got phone camera phones and everything and it just takes a little bit of adjustment and then you know how you speak and you know how you sound to everybody else. I think we've got to this point in life where we all like hearing the sound of our own voices. I don't know what the original discussion was, but that's where I've taken it.
Kristjan Byfield: We've gone from the fact that the women's movement bring back men's to
David Mintz: We can talk about news. We talk about newspapers and management.
Kristjan Byfield: somehow loving the own the the sound of our own voices which is you know by and large the same thing really isn't it?
David Mintz: It's it's perfect territory for mansplaining. I think there is there is manplaining and then there's also just just general a****** explaining where you just want to explain everything to everybody because you feel that they need to know they need to know how clever you are.
 
 

01:00:20

 
David Mintz: And that's where I am with this whole podcast thing and the voice note thing. We've all got this opinion and we've and and social media gives us that platform to voice the opinion and we all none of us I mean very rarely do you come across somebody who who is so insecure that they're not willing to share what they're eating on on Facebook or whatever it may be. We've all been trained to sort of share now our points of view and our thing and and and we love it because it makes us we think we've got something unique to share with the world.
Kristjan Byfield: I
David Mintz: But do
Kristjan Byfield: mean,
David Mintz: we
Kristjan Byfield: we're all different. We're all the same, aren't we? Don't think. And And is it is it relevant? Is what I think what you think ultimately relevant?
David Mintz: It's so cheap to put out.
Kristjan Byfield: It's really interesting to
David Mintz: Um,
Kristjan Byfield: me.
David Mintz: I love I listen to I listen to a load of podcasts and I I love Do you know what the one I love the most at the moment it it's very irreverent and it's very inappropriate.
 
 

01:01:27

 
David Mintz: Um, I think it's called Finn Versus History or something and it's a comedian called Finn Taylor and called Horatio G. and they sit on a couch and they each week they go through another chapter of history and actually
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: if you if you listen to it end to end you will learn a lot about history there's a lot of factual stuff in there but they take the piss because it's it's hilarious stuff um and I think I think if you can what what I love about all of these kind of free medium
Kristjan Byfield: Come on.
David Mintz: is if you want people to learn and you want to spread a message if you can make them giggle a bit at the same time It makes it sink in a lot
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. And look, I think you know this this whole array of content out there now,
David Mintz: better.
Kristjan Byfield: I mean, you know, you bringing that up brings a couple of things to mind. A, I'm fascinated that basically anyone looking anything up online from any source now class that as research.
 
 

01:02:30

 
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Had an interesting political discussion with the in-laws over New Year's Eve.
David Mintz: chat. GPC
Kristjan Byfield: And I got some very interesting statements, ve cool cool where's where's that from?
David Mintz: says
Kristjan Byfield: I mean I've done my research like can you can you share that source? I mean I don't go anywhere near the BBC because they're not to be trusted and it's like cool. That's a good
David Mintz: it. It is hard though.
Kristjan Byfield: start.
David Mintz: Who do you know? So if if you were sort of advising your kids where they should get their news from, who they should believe, my kids are all over Tik Tok.
Kristjan Byfield: That is difficult.
David Mintz: So they will get both sides of the argument very often. And um they're getting their information from places
Kristjan Byfield: question everything. I think that's the thing. No matter, you know,
David Mintz: that
Kristjan Byfield: where it is, question everything. I think it it's um I think it's I think it's really important to try and and and look, for a lot of people, this is challenging.
 
 

01:03:27

 
Kristjan Byfield: You know, I would find this hard to do as well, but I think it's really interesting if you try and challenge your own perceptions, right? Try and prove yourself wrong if you can or at least try and find things that make you question.
David Mintz: I had um I had an interesting chat with one of our industry colleagues the other day in response to the whole Steven Brown thing that we were when we were talking about it and they said to me they were trying to say look you know I just want to let you know I'm not anti-semitic I just want to let you know I don't agree with the actions of that particular country or whatever. And I said, "Look, that's that's absolutely fine. That's what that's that's fine. But when I hear you calling out that viciferously, but you remain completely silent over the last two weeks about what's going on in Iran, I have to question whether or not you're interested in Middle East politics or are you just
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: a little bit interested in what we're doing?" and and and actually so this this guy went away and
 
 

01:04:32

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: he came back to me and he said I want to thank you. I found it really challenging what you told me and I I I do want to admit that actually I think my my leftwing views sometimes he said just tend to default to well that's not right. So that's the path that I'm going. And I think going back to what you're
Kristjan Byfield: We do have these causes that the public latches on to,
David Mintz: saying.
Kristjan Byfield: right? And that that whole free Palestine thing is something that's been latched on to so biferously and militantly to a certain
David Mintz: Yeah. So I I I remember I remember coming to your
Kristjan Byfield: degree.
David Mintz: office actually um just after October the 7th, 2023. And I came for a party or whatever it was that night and
Kristjan Byfield: that I I don't think that was ours.
David Mintz: I'm No,
Kristjan Byfield: You come to dude,
David Mintz: dude.
Kristjan Byfield: we don't we a very serious business,
David Mintz: I was I came to I came came to you.
 
 

01:05:31

 
Kristjan Byfield: my friend.
David Mintz: No, but I came I I was hanging out. I was having a discussion with with somebody and uh she turned around to me and she said, "Um, I don't really want to talk about this with you because you'll probably be you'll probably be offended." I'm like, "No, no, you could talk to me about anything." They said, "Well, surely uh I know everything that's happened on October was really bad uh for you guys, but surely you don't agree with cutting off people's electricity and their water and stuff." And I said, "First of all, look, I I don't agree with that cutting off anybody's electricity and water. I don't get, you know, I I don't love that notion. But also, I said, "Would you, you know, if I was, if I was black and I was from Sudan, would you sit me down and go, "Here's a drink." By the way, I hate to mention this to you, but isn't it terrible what they're doing back there?
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, that FGM and that that machete stuff goes
 
 

01:06:30

 
David Mintz: There is so I I guess what I'm trying to say is there is this sense that we are because
Kristjan Byfield: on.
David Mintz: we might have allegiance due to the fact that we're part of the same religion or whatever or background that you're expected to defend your actions that are actually going on in a country 2,000 miles away. The the free Palestine movement,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: if we're going to talk about this openly, and don't mind. What irritates me about free Palestine is that it seems to be be have really sort of captured the imagination of tons of people who will never go to Palestine, never go near a Palestinian, never have met one, never have spoken openly with with people in Israel. So they don't understand the complexities
Kristjan Byfield: 90% of those people won't even go on the internet to understand the history of the
David Mintz: of
Kristjan Byfield: of of why so
David Mintz: Yeah. So,
Kristjan Byfield: f***
David Mintz: so there are let you know that death on either side and all of that is is awful.
 
 

01:07:28

 
David Mintz: It's a waste of life. All of this stuff, right? But when when let me tell you that that when I was on the way out of London, um I'd come down for a conference and I think I was leaving. I was in a taxi and the taxi, you know how you you pay your Uber driver in advance sometimes? So, I paid seven quid to this dude to take me to the station and he got he was getting very pissed off and he because we kept hitting these massive massive Free Palestine protests and and and I could tell he was really losing it with me. He turned around at some point and goes, "This isn't £7, you know, this isn't £7." And I'm like, "Dude, I can't do anything about the protest." But let me tell you my feeling of being in that car as all the protesters sort of surrounded us. First of all, I've got the taxi driver who who was not happy to be with me in the car.
Kristjan Byfield: isn't exactly
David Mintz: And I I was like, "s***,
 
 

01:08:23

 
Kristjan Byfield: unsettling.
David Mintz: he's going to find out I'm Jewish and that I've caused all these protests. s***, I'm I'm going to be done for.
Kristjan Byfield: He's just going to turf me out. He's going to roll me out the door in the middle of free
David Mintz: I'm going to be done for." But but on but on the other hand, these were not these are not sort of peaceful protests.
Kristjan Byfield: Palestine.
David Mintz: These are very angry people. And I actually felt as threatened as I've ever felt in my life. And I remember sort of sending sending somebody a text message just saying, "Listen, if I don't get to the station in an, you know, in half an hour, I'm I'm a goner here. This is not good." I I think I think there is um I think the
Kristjan Byfield: I probably but also those you know and again this brings us back to the
David Mintz: message
Kristjan Byfield: thing I bet you half of that scary crowd you'll see on the Tommy 10 names march you'll see on the they just want to be angry they just want to hate
 
 

01:09:12

 
David Mintz: Rent rent a crowd.
Kristjan Byfield: people they they just want to fight they just want
David Mintz: Rent a crowd.
Kristjan Byfield: to
David Mintz: There was a sense. Do you remember the stop oil process which just disappeared very quickly? There was a sense that that wasn't working.
Kristjan Byfield: forgot about that stuff.
David Mintz: Well,
Kristjan Byfield: How dare they close Tower
David Mintz: it's a but but whatever it is that those protests
Kristjan Byfield: Bridge?
David Mintz: ended, they found something else to do and a lot of that kind of you know that crowd of protesters. I think there are two messages here. One is that clearly there is something in our in in the politics of today. We are so polarized and divided that people want a cause to rally around. They want to revolt. They want to rebel. They want to say that they're not happy. They want to express themselves. And I think we as politicians, we're not politicians, but we as people um in the world, we need to sort of just be we have to understand that this is going to keep happening unless we can we can converse with one another properly and we can understand each other
 
 

01:10:21

 
Kristjan Byfield: Well,
David Mintz: better.
Kristjan Byfield: there's a lot of people out there just being told how to think and how to feel about stuff and they're and they're just,
David Mintz: There is that I think the overall point that I was trying to make
Kristjan Byfield: "Oh,
David Mintz: and
Kristjan Byfield: I should be angry about this group of people because they're causing that." And it's just like, "Cool. Now
David Mintz: I and on all I would say is that to to anybody watching this who and there are plenty of
Kristjan Byfield: what?
David Mintz: people who do and bless you all. You you've got your reasons for doing so. If you want to support one side more than the other, that's cool, man. I back it and honestly I will protest myself for your right to go out there and express yourself. But just understand that when you are calling for certain things to be done and to be said, those words have an effect. It winds somebody up. So you might be a very reasonable person.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
 
 

01:11:10

 
David Mintz: You might be out there calling to globalize an indifada. You won't know what that means. Inifard frittata. It's all the same to me, right? But actually, what it means is it's an armed uprising. What you what you're calling for is the death of people on our streets. So, globalize it. Let's make it around the world.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: And who are those people? Well, you'll say, "Well,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: they're Zionists." And who are the Zionists, Christian? I don't really know who they are,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: but the Jews must be, right? So, some nutter some nutter is going to do all of that very simple math and go,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: "Right, next Saturday morning, I'm going to get up and I'm going to go and do something terrible." So, do I think that that that your average citizen going out there to protest on a Saturday afternoon directly leads to acts of terror? No. But filling the streets with hatred and and and inciting this kind of rhetoric is inevitably going to get extremists are extremists for a reason.
 
 

01:12:16

 
David Mintz: They're the fringe of society that are willing to do the things that all of us are not willing to do.
Kristjan Byfield: Look,
David Mintz: You are eventually going to push someone over the edge
Kristjan Byfield: I think I think I think the worrying thing at the
David Mintz: and
Kristjan Byfield: moment I find is that there's this broken, divisive rhetoric everywhere, right? You should be afraid of this. You should resent that. You should aspire to this. You should ignore that. This is everything that's wrong with your life and this is who's at who's at fault. There's a lot of that out there at the moment. And you know, I said to a lesser extent, you know, having political debates with the family. um you know the the Telegraph article I referenced earlier there's a young guy that I have quite an extended interaction with in the comment section and again like what's fascinating there is he is very passionately in agreement with the article um and what was really interesting was reading his first couple of responses I had in my mind that this was a guy coming towards the end of his career uh maybe even early retirement.
 
 

01:13:27

 
Kristjan Byfield: Um you know, cuz he started off talking about how basically he now felt the need to lie at work because there were things he couldn't say. There were things he could no longer say for fear of being fired. Um because I think I'd put some quote about the only people who who would have this who would have shut up because of this was misogynists and he didn't like that.
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Um now he came back with multiple responses very very passionate very passionate viewpoint. Um it was very interesting to hear him said because every kind of argument he made was kind of equally an argument against himself you know because he was like oh you're not you're not quoting any fact there's no facts behind what you're saying. So, it's so easy to refute what you're saying and you look back at his like five previous comments and he hasn't offered a single fact. Um, that was him in response to me actually saying that there are facts that back up that diverse businesses are grow faster, do better, more profit, more profitable, more durable, less likely to go bust.
 
 

01:14:37

 
Kristjan Byfield: uh and there is data behind that although I didn't state uh you know um cite the statistics but there are very very impassion people and like you know there's nothing there's nothing unjust he says in there um he he kind of waffles around the point and I I will it remains to be seen whether he actually draws debate because I've actually gone cool you're not going to convince me that this is right and equally I'm not going to
David Mintz: You know,
Kristjan Byfield: convince you that you need to be more empathetic and understanding. So, let's stop trying to convince that because that probably wouldn't happen face to face. It definitely ain't happening in the Facebook comment section. But I did say to him is let's stop debating the ifs and whats may tell me one thing. Say now one of the things you feel you can no longer say at work. share it with me because at the moment like one of my comments is like at the moment I can only think of misogynistic, sexist, homophobic,
David Mintz: race.
 
 

01:15:41

 
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: whatever comments because they have to be for you to be
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: fired. Um, but maybe I'm wrong or maybe maybe you maybe this young man is scared because the media makes it makes him think that's a reality because what he says in there is basically I can't express my opinion anymore. And it's like you can express your opinion if it's valid and
David Mintz: you you know what the issue is on both sides of that debate and it goes also to the
Kristjan Byfield: relevant.
David Mintz: wider discussion on incelss and all that sort of stuff that you see spoken about quite a lot and the whole that whole Andrew Tate crowd who are just abhorren to me But I think on both sides, right and left, right, there's that that massive chasm that we've got, is that that you know that expression, this this isn't the hill that I'm that I'm going to die on. Act in actual fact,
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: there are loads of people out there that think that is the hill they're going to die on.
 
 

01:16:43

 
David Mintz: And and they are willing to stand by their own opinion. So much so that they don't care who perishes around them in order for that opinion to be
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: true. It is okay for you to have an opinion and it is all right for somebody to have an opposing opinion and nobody has to die. Literally nobody has to die. And and and I think you we have to be mindful these days that
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: unfortunately voicing an opinion sometimes does lead to people dying. It leads to people dying on our streets.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.
David Mintz: leads to those sele keep going on about Charlie Kirk for instance. Yeah. like for them in in that my my kids are as right on as they come and my kids came out with some awful s*** that day that he he got shot and and I heard one of them and you know and
Kristjan Byfield: There was some very interesting statements thrown around about that
David Mintz: and but but on both sides there were some very statements that
 
 

01:17:41

 
Kristjan Byfield: match.
David Mintz: what they were saying is Charlie Charlie K was a horrible divisive person who said horrible things about trans people and homosexual people and all that sort of stuff and Therefore, dot dot dot dot dot and I said yes dot dot dot dot dot what what because are you trying to say that therefore it's justified therefore it's okay and at the end of the day it's not none of this s***
Kristjan Byfield: No,
David Mintz: is worth anybody losing their lives
Kristjan Byfield: the only thing Charlie the only thing that Charlie Kirk talked
David Mintz: over.
Kristjan Byfield: about that in any way created the situation where he might have been shot was not his opinions. Ultimately, anyone should be allowed to have opinion, but he he that his hill to die on was that everyone had a right to have a gun.
David Mintz: I I
Kristjan Byfield: Now, that for me is is action and consequences.
David Mintz: realized
Kristjan Byfield: Have any opinion you want, but if you think every Tom, Dick, and Harry should be allowed to walk around with a weapon, cool.
 
 

01:18:45

 
Kristjan Byfield: But then you stand by what happens to that. You are perfectly happy with people going in and shooting up schools. You are perfectly happy with a public person being assassinated on a stage because that is the freedom that you
David Mintz: Call call me naive and call me oldfashioned,
Kristjan Byfield: fought for.
David Mintz: but I'd be perfectly happy just for a week.
Kristjan Byfield: I can't believe we've wafted onto the Charlie
David Mintz: Well, we we've gone, if you've noticed,
Kristjan Byfield: Kirk.
David Mintz: what we've done is we've gone from me saying that I feel like people don't express their opinion enough when it and openly enough when it comes to women stuff to saying actually expressing your opinion too much leads to people dying. So, we need to come somewhere in the middle. But actually what I think is and and I I think this about politics. I think this in social circles as well and and business and everything. We've lost that centrist kind of ground. There is no center. So that whole if you were to look at Blair era and I appreciate Tony Blair is
 
 

01:19:36

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah, everything become better. Everything become
David Mintz: now Tony Blair is going to be a very divisive character in politics
Kristjan Byfield: betterized.
David Mintz: because a lot of people um can't get over the the the two wars that he that he was part of. But if you look at the politics of that time and the n and the vibe of the '9s, it there was a lot more we were more down the middle, you know, we were more united and it felt and as a result
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, what got him in was being very
David Mintz: Yeah. And thing things can only get better.
Kristjan Byfield: centrist.
David Mintz: It was a positive message. Nobody ever won any no one had to win any votes by saying I I think that this lot are terrible. We want them out of the country. I think that that lot are terrible. They should be locked up. And instead it was we can do better together and that's great.
 
 

01:20:28

 
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah. Yeah.
David Mintz: Where's all of that gone? How have we then woken up?
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: And honestly, if you if you went to sleep like Rick Van Winkl at 1992 and then you
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: woke up in 2026 to Donald Trump running the world and and and the kind of politics that we've got here with reform and and and extreme left-wing politics as well, you'd be you'd be like, "How the f*** did this happen?
Kristjan Byfield: And look and I think I think you know this is kind of a good point for us to kind of wrap this chat up.
David Mintz: Okay, we can
Kristjan Byfield: I think I think my my thing at the moment is like there
David Mintz: go
Kristjan Byfield: is this divisiveness at the moment like you said there is this polarization of every issue whether it's women in the workplace or what race or color you are or whether you're trans or whatever. There's there's there's this massive polarization on things at the moment and I think you know you've made a valid point.
 
 

01:21:25

 
Kristjan Byfield: We all need to learn to chill the f*** out and to be able to have a conversation and express our opinions without judging the person that we're talking to to be like, "Oh, I don't agree with your opinion, so I just don't like you as a human being." That's b*******. I mean, okay, they've got enough things you don't agree with.
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: Maybe they are, but um but let's not let's not write someone off. And that could be, you know, I've heard stories the last few years of families and all sorts of stuff having massive fallouts over this stuff. Um,
David Mintz: Heat.
Kristjan Byfield: but also, you know, you've got to question where's this coming from? What's driving this? and and you know, social media, the way social media is structured, the way our media has expanded and and and what it and how it's run now, the messaging that is shoved down everyone's throats.
David Mintz: Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: And I think social media even more so because mainstream media, you kind of pick your channel, you know, whether it's, you know, BBC or GB News, what, you know, whatever whatever floats your boat, they're kind of on that.
 
 

01:22:26

 
Kristjan Byfield: I think social media is is the paradox, right? Because we all know you've got that algorithm and the more you go into it, the more it self-affirms itself and the more deep and ingrained and um extreme that content content gets. Um he'll be 10 minutes, promise 10 minutes. Just have the dinner ready in 10 minutes.
David Mintz: It's it's it's chucking out time here, you know. It's uh
Kristjan Byfield: But but no, I think you know my my big thing at the moment is you know there is the you know and and I do blame social media a lot and I find like I use social media a lot for work. Um lots of people this is that going yeah no f****** s*** shut up. Um but I find I use it increasingly less and less for personal. um for that very reason I've just found like you know looking at attitude
David Mintz: Yeah. That's it
Kristjan Byfield: shift I've noticed in people that we know and love family friends whatever and then it's like oh I've been spending too much time on
 
 

01:23:24

 
David Mintz: because
Kristjan Byfield: social media I like it didn't warp my opinions but a few months ago with this all this Trump s*** going across across the pond like I I you know I kind of went down a rabbit hole on that for about three or four weeks and ended up getting in quite a messy headspace just feeling like geez Jesus Christ, where are we going?
David Mintz: I I think I think there
Kristjan Byfield: Where are we going as a as a you know, and then I was like, this this isn't life.
David Mintz: is Yeah.
Kristjan Byfield: I don't live in America.
David Mintz: But but if you look at what's happening in the social media space,
Kristjan Byfield: Trump's
David Mintz: what what's very interesting is I I think for instance, if you were to look at LinkedIn, it's full of people saying, and then I'm so guilty of this, but it's full of people saying, "Hey, I've got a really interesting thing that I need to tell you about what happened to me today. What I what occurred to me, and we could apply this to a business context, and here is my thought leadership piece, but we're doing that now on every medium." So,
 
 

01:24:25

 
David Mintz: what we're doing is we're now putting out a version of ourselves to the world that is uh sanitized, that has to sound clever all the time, that is not vulnerable. Nobody ever Nobody ever really stands up and goes, I f***** up today. I got to tell you, I it was just the most embarrassing thing. That's what Facebook used to be maybe 10 years ago. It's not anymore. And you can't be you can't be overly funny.
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: Everybody has to sort of that personal brand of I'm still Christian and I still need to
Kristjan Byfield: Yeah.
David Mintz: tow the So I think look we we need to be more forgiving and we need to find a way that we can be our authenticelves and without actually you don't need to be right all the time. It's fine. It's okay.
Kristjan Byfield: You don't need to agree all the time as well.
David Mintz: Well,
Kristjan Byfield: You can go out and have a good and family without agreeing on stuff.
David Mintz: I don't agree with that.
 
 

01:25:20

 
Kristjan Byfield: Just just avoid it if it's too impossible to talk about. You know, like if you know you're not going to meet in the middle, if you know you're not going to be able to have a
David Mintz: Can Can I offer you a compliment before we wrap up? Can I offer you a compliment?
Kristjan Byfield: convers
David Mintz: This is probably the only podcast where you can go from Verona Frankish to Charlie Kirk very, very quickly. I don't know anyone else that could do that. So, well, hats off to you. I've had a blast.
Kristjan Byfield: All right, dudes. Well, listen, my beautiful man. I'm gonna let you go. That's literally what I'm building a podcast around. It's just me. It's the chats. What's it going to be about? Everything. But podcasts work really well if you focus in on a topic. That's great. I I talk to people. Oh, dude. Always a joy. Always a pleasure. Love you, big man.