SPODA: Philip Rossi, Actor, Director, Writer, Cookie-Lover

In this funny, honest, and free-flow interview, we delve into Philip's Catholicism and how it supports, and sometimes does not support, his life as an actor. Philip's truthfulness about his struggle to be an artist when he feels like God is only giving him crumbs (instead of the whole cookie) is something we think a lot of people will be able to resonate with and relate to.

Beautiful music by: Doug Harvey

(No cookies were harmed in the making of this episode :) 

Hosted by Ari Hader and Olivia Spirz. Follow us on IG @spodapod !

Transcript

0:12

Hey, welcome back girls. Hey, welcome Toda. Hey, ah, yes. Welcome to Spiritual Practices of the Disgruntled Artist, where we, uh, Olivia and Rie interview a new artist each episode to learn how they are keeping themselves. Sane and spiritually healthy during this especially challenging time to be an artist. And every time we have a guest on, we take one of their spiritual practices and we do it every day for two weeks. Mm-hmm. And then we report back to share how that went. Yeah. What we learned. Yeah. So what we'll take, what we'll leave so last week we had on a friend, Kate Neuser. Yes. And we actually took two different practices. Mm-hmm. I took meditating. Silently for five minutes a day. Yep. And I went to the ocean. You took the water? I took the water. How'd that go for you? It went really well, so. After. It's so funny. After we decided on the thing, I was like, oh, I should have chosen the me meditation.'cause I have a really busy week. I just don't know because Kate lives like 10 minutes away from the ocean. Right. Makes sense. For her to be going twice a week and she acts actively surfs in this. I was like, oh, okay. But I made it like I only, so I only made it once, is what I'm saying. Okay. Alright. I only made it once. Um, however. It was maybe one of the best days of my life, really. Um, because now I, again, I, I love the water. I love to swim. I love the ocean. Even when I was little, when we had to leave the beach, I would like say bye to the ocean. Like I, so that, that's why I kind of took it.'cause I was like, oh, I miss it. I've been feeling Yeah. Wanting to go to the water. That's why I took it. And I've also done the meditation. Mm-hmm. Which by the way, I actually did. It, the silent meditation as well, which I'll talk about because I folks, she, she's a plus plus did both this week. Um, but I did that because I knew I wasn't going to make it to the, the beach that often. Yeah. So however, um, I was recommended by my friend Tyler, shout out to Tyler, uh, to go,'cause I really wanted to find tide pools. Okay. Um,'cause usually when I'm in the, when I go to the water, I wanna be in the water. I, sometimes, I, it's, it's like you can't itch the scratch when you go visit the ocean, but you can't touch it. Mm. Great. But it's like, kind of like, oh, you don't wanna be cold. Don't I wanna be, yes. I don't wanna be cold, but I want to be in it Yes. To feel it. That's, that's, that's to me going to the ocean. Yeah. Um, I can't surf so I can't do that, but. Uh, so I thought tide pools would be great. So I was recommended to go to this place called Christmas Tree Cove. Okay. This sounds great. I want to go, uh, there are no Christmas trees. I don't, I don't care. Um. And it was basically this steep cliff mm-hmm. To go down and it was very rocky. Mm-hmm. It was all rocks. I wore my Birkenstocks like a dummy, but I love my Birkenstocks. I very, I would never say this, but Birkenstocks, were not the move I'm gonna buy. I, this has inspired me to buy water shoes. Okay. Like, I was like, okay. Yeah. So I was like, oh, okay. I need to be more prepared. I, I made it safely. I was fine. Good. But there were a lot of like, I mean, I'm talking tricky. Yeah. Steep cliff and then again you're like on, you know. Yeah. Um, anyways, I had such a great time.'cause I also realized in my head, I was like, oh, I'm going to go to the beach, right? Mm-hmm. I'm just gonna go your typical sand, you know, putting my feet in the water and this time. I had, it was so active. Mm. I think that's why I didn't, I, I was surprised and shocked to how active it was, and I think that's what made it so special. Mm-hmm. Because another thing that the, the other, like if we're talking about what my two favorite things to do in nature, it's like the water, I'm swimming in the ocean or. It's for, for me, like Joshua Tree bouldering, like climbing rocks. And this was both of it. Yeah.'cause I was basically going through rock, like the whole thing was rocks. Mm-hmm. So I had to like hop from rock to rock and I was bouldering and it was amazing. And I sat on a rock. Mm-hmm. After I kind of like went and looked at the tie pools and all that, lots of crap. That's, it felt like a, a Ghibli movie. It felt like ponyo and, um, I sat there for five minutes mm-hmm. And meditated silence there. And I was like, oh, oh, look at me. Go place the, like a mingo. Um, yeah, it was just, it just reminded me how much I loved it. Yeah. I think that was just one thing I took away from it. Kind of like the dancing previously uhhuh, it's like, oh, yes. We have all the tools. We know. We know what we like at this point in our lives. I think that's what I was, I was just like, yes, yes. You know, like I think like being in our thirties and be like, yes, we know. Yes, we know what we, and we can make the time. That's the other thing. Make the time. You can make the time. Yeah. But yeah, you're right. Like in a way, all we're getting at here is like, what makes people feel good. Mm-hmm. Like it's also connected to this greater, sometimes, like sometimes yeah. Connect to like a greater entity, a greater connection to ourselves, you know? But sometimes just like, what's gonna make you feel better? Right. I was actually thinking about this and I'm, I'm curious to see, like, I feel like a lot of my. Spirituality almost is like just just self care. Mm. It's just like, to me it almost feels like one in the other. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Um, and so yeah, it was just magical. It was peaceful. I just felt so giddy. And, and I will say too, um, I think it was key that I was by myself. Yeah. I had invited other people, but they couldn't come. And it was nice and I was like, oh, I think. Worked out. Yeah. In the way it needed to be, because I don't think I would've had like been in this like child state of wonder and just like looking and you know, so yeah. I think that's important. I mean, I think that's why in the artist way they have that you take yourself on an artist state it always seems like we're pressed for time, so you're like, I should spend it with people instead of just going out by yourself to do something. Yeah. And I, and Bonnie had such a good experience with that. It was, sounds great. Highly recommend, but wear proper shoes. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Book socks. They won't be sponsoring anytime soon. Um, um, so how did your meditation go? Okay, so I did, I did the five minute silent meditation. I think. I don't, I don't think I missed a day. Maybe I missed one day, but. The what I, I learned two things. One is that the first five minutes of any meditation for me are, is actually just like laundry list, like sort of mind garbage. I don't think I got a lot of good meditation in. Okay. However, I noticed that I was meditating in a lot more places than I normally do. So when I was waiting for the doctor, I was like. Instead of scrolling on my phone, I could meditate right now. Not even as like, this counts for five minutes, my five minutes of the day. Like I didn't count it per se, but like I, because I didn't need music or guided. Mm-hmm. And usually I do music, but because I was removing that element from it. Yeah. I was like, I can do this wherever because it's silent meditation and I'm glad that it was five minutes.'cause it made me feel like even just like four breaths of meditation while I'm waiting for my name to be called at the doctor's office. Yeah. Counts. To, to make me like feel less stressed and more whole and like, yeah. Also like if we were to expand it like a bigger vibrational match for like what I want by like keeping my energy in a good spot, so, right. I think I learned that and I took that away from it. And I think when I started meditating, and that was part of my plan was to do it in silence because like I want to be able to calm down my heart and mind and body. When like my kids are screaming at me. Right. You know, and there's no, it's a practical thing. I think the meditation, when we talk about it, I think so many people use it for so many reasons, it's just universal. I think everyone can use it because. Yeah, it, it literally just calms your nervous system. And like, if you think about like in a big audition room or something. Mm-hmm. Which I remember I met this friend we were like on set friends for a commercial. Yeah. Yeah. She was brought up like meditate, whatever school she went to. I forgot what you said, and I don't wanna butcher it, but like meditation was a part of her schooling from like when she was a child. And she really rebelled against it and like didn't like that. But she did say like when she's in a big audition room, she's calm. Like it's been ingrained in her. Whereas I feel like the self-tape world has a lot of issues with it because like, are people even watching our tapes? How much are they watching? But the nerves are out for me. And like right before Covid hit, when I was finally going into big rooms on studios on lots, and you're parking and you're sweating and you, you can't find exactly where you wanna be. And you get there like an hour and a half early because you don't know. And like, oh my God, like that. Like, oh my God, like just straight, like talking about it, I'm sweating. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like to be able to just remove that. By like getting really good at meditating in a space where just things are going on. Yeah. I think that's actually really beneficial. So I'm gonna continue, I'm gonna go back to what I was doing, which was like 15 to 20 minute meditation. Right. But I think I'm gonna keep the silent aspect of it. Yeah. And see. See what that does for me. Also what I realized too, for me is that like any activity can also be meditative, like making something or. And even like putting on all my skincare. Mm-hmm. Like it, I think it's just like the, you know, the, the practice of being present. Mm. In that, even if it's like, not even five minutes, but you're right, like the four breaths. We can access it at any time. You can access it at any time. Yeah. I think that's, that, that it unlocked that for me. Yeah. Good job. Thanks. Good job. Okay. Yay. Let's bring on. Our guest guest. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a guest. Woo. He's an actor. He's a writer. Woo. He's a director and he also happens to be my husband. Ladies and gentleman. Yay. It's Philip Rossi. Yay. Yay. Welcome, toda. Thank you. Let's set the scene. Olivia and Phillip are sitting in children's chairs. Oh, these are children's chairs. Hang on a gosh dang second. What do you mean I perfect our children's chairs, in fact. Yes. Yes. And we all have big mugs of tea and Oh, yes. What tea are you having? Yes. This was inspired by Grant, but we actually didn't do it with Grant. We didn't do it. This is a shout out to Grant. Shout out Grant. Uh, I'm speaking of Grant. I'm drinking ginger turmeric. Oh, because he is a redhead. Because he is a redhead. Does he like ginger? Yeah. Yeah. Philip, what kind of tea are you drinking? I'm drinking chamomile. Yeah. It is late. I mean, it's late for me because we have children and I'm exhausted. That's true. Uh, but for a normal person, this would not be, yeah. Late. And I'm drinking peppermint tea. And the mugs were given to us by Philip's sister. And what I love about them is that they remind me of the Gilmore girls. Remember how they had those big mugs? Yes. And she was always like, I need more coffee. I need, it needs to be like in a bowl, a bowl size, amount of coffee. Mm-hmm. I would be drinking coffee, but what I, what is this? It says sunflowers and puppies, cotton, that it's all like happy things. I think it's happy things. Ugh. That was an inside joke That isn't do dunk. But wait, it's not a joke anymore. Yeah, I mean it just doesn't exist. All our 12,000 listeners are really jealous whether or not inside joke. Oh girl. We're all jealous. Including myself. It's like some card game. Anyway, um, anyways, thank you for being here and yours has nothing. Oh yeah. It's a really blank slate. It's wiped off. Yeah. Blank slate. That's who I am right now. I'm in the void. You know? You are. Okay, Philip? Yes. Feel free. No pressure. Yeah, sure. Would you like to pull an Oracle card or take three breaths with us together? Ooh, I love that. Please take three. Three breaths. Yes. Okay. And we're gonna circle back around to why that is, girls. Okay. Safe. And you can do this with us folks. Okay. Okay. I love that. Breathing's good. Now we're all in the same space together. Yeah. Yeah. It always feels like acting class. Yeah, it does. Right. Definitely centered. Um, okay, so let's just jump right in. Let's, so yeah, Philip, tell me about your spirituality. Um, I am Catholic. Mm-hmm. And I was raised Catholic and from there do stem most of my spiritual practices. Sure. Yep. Great. So what are you doing like on a day-to-day basis? Spirituality wise? Yeah. Uh, like cons consistently, or, I feel like it goes through phases for sure. Right now, what are you finding yourself to do right now? Right now, I think the most consistent thing I do is on my way into work. I always, uh, like pray. The first thing I do is get, get my car and I pray to have, uh, a safe drive'cause it's Los Angeles. And, uh, wow man, I need that. And then, uh, three days a week I take our daughter who's four to school and we, we pray together, we start off with, you know, praying for a safe ride. And then, uh, we pray, uh, that we have a good day and, uh, we don't get hurt and we have fun and we come home safely. And then we pray, uh, for people who we feel like need our prayers. Do you pray to Jesus or God, or both? Is it different who you pray to at different times? Oh, well that's interesting, RIE because, uh, the, the theological underpinning is that of, uh, Christianity in general is the Trinity. What a fun podcast, which is that Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are distinct. Entities, but are are the same thing. But then so do you pray to each one for a different thing or you just pray not really talking to a specific finding? Um, yeah, I think, uh, I pray to God or Jesus sort of interchangeably like. You know. Okay. Not the Holy Spirit. Not as much. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Holy Spirit. Sorry. Later about that. No, but that's interesting because I, I feel like most people that I know who do pray to God or Jesus is, it's like, I think, think just that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think the holy like, uh, the Holy Spirit is more difficult to like grasp. You know, because there's uh, there's a whole bunch of books of the Bible that talk about God. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, like halfway through the thing, Jesus shows up and there's a bunch of stories about Jesus and you're like, okay, I know these guys pretty well, but like the Holy Spirit is just sort of like, like in the background. Oh, okay. I did not know that. I have not read the Bible. So. Unfamiliar. I'm unfamiliar, but yes. Get off this podcast. I, I think the, the closest. Yeah. Yeah. You're gone. Like, the closest it gets to being like, there's a Holy Spirit, y'all is like, Jesus gets baptized and they're like, uh, God's spirit descends down upon him and it says like a dove. That's it. Oh, okay. Yeah. So like. That's, I'm sure if people are more learned than me will be like at home taking notes. I'm sure you have a lot of, like, Catholics have 12,000 Orthodox people scribbling down. Like this guy doesn't know anything, but like, that's the closest like description. So like if you go to like a church and the Holy Spirit is represented, it's normally a dove, like the metaphor, but like what does that mean? Does that mean it looked like a dove? Does that mean like. If it fluttered around a bunch and pooped on someone before it landed on Jesus, like the Holy Spirit pooped on me. See?'cause I have, I have God, the universe and spirit guides. Mm-hmm. But I will say, I feel like we've talked about, I talked to the spirit guides most, but I also, I feel that's, see, that's interesting one. Oh, what's the, what's the, the spirit guides. What, what is the spirit guides to you? I have four of them. It's my podcast now. I have four of them. Mm-hmm. I have. Grandma Ellie. Sure. Your grandma? Yeah, that's my grandma. Interestingly, not my grandma. Right. Which we've discussed off mic. Yes. Which I felt bad about for a while. But then Kate, friend of the pod uh, was like, maybe your grandma was tired. Your grandma has other people to look over right now on the bench. Like if I needed her and like, yeah. Okay. So it's Grandma Ellie. Sure. It's um, Zach, who was a student of mine who passed away from Leukemia when he was a teenager. Sure. It's Rich Dunn. Mm-hmm. My friend, and it's, uh, Marguerite who just recently passed away. Mm-hmm. And I feel like the way I knew was when those people passed away, I didn't feel like they were gone. Mm. It was like not quite a full body sadness. It was like they're on my team. And then also I feel like I will talk to people. I think that's how I knew. I thought my grandma was on my spirit guide team and my uncle. And then it just didn't, like when I was trying to talk to them, I didn't feel like. There's not always a response for me. Like sometimes there is if I'm meditating. Sometimes there is, but there didn't feel like there was an energy back to me. Interesting. Hmm. You have, you have. I do not. Okay. We'll let you know. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I find your spirit guides very interesting.'cause that also feels like a very Catholic tradition of the saints. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, because, uh, you pray to God like God answers prayers or Jesus or Jesus who is also God. And that's crazy, but it's not the same as Jesus. But they're the same thing. Confusing. Yes. Um, uh, I don't think I'm gonna get that. Yeah. But I also don't get how my three are different, so I think I'm, we're just gonna be okay with, yeah. Okay. So, but the, the Catholic tradition behind Saints is that, okay. So to be a saint, step number one must be dead. Okay. Just right off the top of the bat. You can't be like, I was gonna say name and I'll do it. Nope. Step number one, you dad, uh, step number two. Mm-hmm. You're in heaven. Actually, those are the only two steps. Like, you're dead and you're in heaven. So everyone Okay. Wait. Continue. Yes, everyone. My question was like, everyone in heaven is a saint. That's right. That's right. Uh, everyone in heaven is a saint, but like for the, the church, uh, big C, the church, the Catholic church to recognize you as a Saint, Saint saint Cheese. Nope. We'll have to cut. That gotta sound so smart on this podcast. No, you already sounded too smart. So we're gonna do that. Okay, good. Yeah. Um, it's like, they're like, how do we know that you're in heaven? You know? Okay. And the way you know is because, uh, the Catholic tradition is like, you've got saints, saints are in heaven, so therefore, like closer to God, right? Mm-hmm. And so like, if you want something from God, you pray to God, but you're also like, uh, call up your favorite saint. And it'd be like, by the way, would you bug God for me? Like, that's you expedite this message. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, we need more petitioners. Like, uh, it's your personal lobbyists. You're like, Hey, I, I, you know, I need help. My foot is broken. And then you're like, I'm, I'm like to bug some saints look up this patron saint of like ailments or something. And you're like, yo, you specialize, your special interest is ailments. Please like intercede. For me, that's the, that's the vocab word. And please pray to God for me on my behalf about this thing. So like your thing. Mm-hmm. Interestingly, that's a very catholic tradition, like Saint tradition, these are people, like, do you pray to them about different things? Question? Yes. I have a question. Question, question from the small blue chair. Um, yes. Thank you. Do you believe in angels? Yes. So Angels and Saints feel very similar to me right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So the, what's the difference? The, uh, tradition is that, uh, angels. We're never people. But do you believe in angels? Yeah, I believe in angels. Do do you have like an angel that is yours? Do you ever talk to the Angels? I don't, but I, I believe they're, there's traditional, like every, the tradition that, like everyone has a guardian angel, the person that's specifically there, that person, the angel that's there to be like, I'm here for you. Guardian angel. Uh, but And are your guardian angels someone you knew in your life?'cause that's what, no, no, because like gar, the angel is its own thing. It's own thing. That's so funny.'cause I always think guardian angels are Yeah. Are people are like, when someone passed, they become your guardian angel. Right, right. So I've always spirit. Yeah. That's more of a, yeah. It's more of a spirit guy. Oh, okay. Okay. So wait, I have a question. Yes. So you pray every morning. Mm-hmm. But what other things do you do to keep yourself like mentally healthy? Not much. Okay. Okay. Okay. What are, because you said earlier, you know that you go through phases. Mm-hmm. Is there some practice that you want to do or start incorporating that you think would make you. Um, feel better or whatever. Yes. But it's not really a spiritual practice, just like Okay, okay. Just like exercising yeah. Like I, uh, I went through a really bad, bout of depression one time. I was like, ah, I don't know what to do and all this stuff. I'm praying, I feel like no one to answering my prayers. Like I just feel awful. And, uh, I talked to like a therapist, not helpful at all. And I was like, I'm gonna talk to my priest'cause of that particular therapist. We should say, not that all therapy is, I would never suggest that all therapy is bad. Well, I, that one was specifically bad. Clarify that. Okay. It was a specifically bad therapist. Yes. Not good for you. So you talked to your priest. Sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. The therapist started the conversation by arguing like, she was like, you're an actor. And I was like, yes. She's like, where did you study? And I, I named, dropped the place I studied and she started arguing with me about what they teach. And I was like. She was like a failed actor. I went, yeah. She was like a failed actor. And I was like, I went, oh no, I was likes gets comedy, comedy sketch right there. If it wasn't so sad, it would've been funny. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I went there for four years, I think I would know what they teach. And she's like, no, that's not what they teach. And I was like, this, this sucks. Good time. Oh, okay. Okay. So not, yeah. So I went, I went and talked to my priest and we talked a long time about, you know, stuff that's going on. Um, and he was like. Need to exercise. She'll like, get your heart work rate up, get out there, do stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like that. Like you would expect. She was a priest. It was like first, you know, dump some incense on your head and stuff. It was like very practical. It was like, go for exercise, go do that. I was like, how's stuff going with your wife? And I was like, good. And he was like, you're sleeping with her. And I was like. Yep. He was like, good. That's good. Barry. Oh, no. Air can't take it. Although we have two children, I shut. She does not want anyone to know that we've ever slept together. What? I slowly, literally just shut her face the door. She literally had the cover her face. She couldn't look at Olivia, her face. I think Olivia knew that we. Slept together before we, our children room. I have my suspicion. Um, okay. Okay. Um, when you're praying, do you feel like you get a response back part to yourself? Um, I don't know. I think, um, I think sometimes, but, in my experience, it's not like a. Like a voice that's like, yeah, you know, your complaint has been registered or like, we're on it. It's more like, I'm like, why is this happening? This is the thing that I'm drawn to. This is what I'm struggling with. And then like years later in hindsight, I'm like, oh, I see the, the plan now that I could not see it from where I was standing. Do you have an example of that? I do have an example of that. Okay. Um, I, uh, I was in high school, and I, I really liked playing soccer. Mm-hmm. But also I was interested in acting and I was at tryouts and I had to go to like an acting camp. Okay. And I was gonna have to leave like two days early. And I talked to the coach and I was like, is that gonna be a problem? I, he's like, no, it's, it's not gonna be a problem. I was like, I really wanna do these two things. They're different. Like the season is not conflicted by me going to this acting camp. I was like, yeah, no worries. And then the last day, I was like, so I have to leave, but you know, we good. And he was like, yeah, yeah, you're not on the team. Like you can't be here. If you can't be here, you can't be on the team. And I was just devastated. Like I played soccer for like, 10 years. And I went to this acting camp. And I was really pissed.'cause I, yeah. Did you know you, how did that feel? Go like, yeah. Were were you excited still? Or were you I, I think I was, eh, I, I can't remember. Like, I, what I really remember is like being really upset about Yeah. And it, it was like JV soccer, so there was no progressing anymore. Like that was it. I was done playing soccer, so I didn't make the JBT and it's not like they were gonna let me on the next year and there was no other option at that point. Uh, and that really sucked. I was like. I played for this long. I really loved doing it. And now I was just gone and I, and I was angry and maybe I prayed or maybe I was just like, why God? Yeah. Yeah, it sucks. Like why? Like why, why say yes and then take it away? And then years, years later looking back on it that is when, that was like the pivot from me being like acting maybe to acting like, I guess I'm gonna throw myself into that. Right? And I had like a really great summer and really put me on the course. I have two questions. Yes. One, does that help you in any sort of current state of strife where you're able to be like, in the future, this is gonna make sense? Because that's been proven to me before, through my spirituality. I, you would think you would hope so, but I feel like, uh, mostly what approves is that, like the picture will make more sense when you're not standing in it, you know? Mm-hmm. But you don't know like, what the picture will be of, you hope that when you're done, you're like, that was a tough spot. And here I am in this bright, beautiful world and like, look how far I've come. But you could also look back in retrospect and be like, yeah, that was the beginning of the end of that thing. And like, that really sucks and it sucks. And there's still like a hole in my heart about that thing. And like there's no way of knowing, right? What, what That will be question two, but, and then, okay. No, you go. No, no. Do you, and this goes with what you're saying of. Do you feel like God truly has a plan for you? That was my question. That was your question. Basically. Basically was my question. Yeah. Slash yes, I do trust him. That that's, that's a Or her or her or her? Them. Them. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I feel like God has a plan for me. Do I trust them? Yes. However, I feel like I, I have like desires and wants and passions. Mm-hmm. And like part of the Christian experience is being like, you, you can have all these things, but at the end, gotta let God decide and the idea is that God has a plan for you that is better than any of your plans. But like, but what about my plans? Olivia? Yeah. What about, what about the stuff that like, I, I want and what if his plan is like nowhere near my plan and that sucks. Right? That's true. But then don't you feel like,'cause I, we've talked about this on when we were talking about my stuff, which is I felt like I had to trust that. If it wasn't what I wanted, it would not feel like I was killing something. Mm-hmm. It would not feel like a death. I would not feel a sadness. I would feel a light and like a joy to the plan. Hmm, yes. That, that is a more evolved, uh, feeling that I hope to achieve one day. But that to me, it, to me it feels like, like, uh, when one of our kids at the end of the night is like, I want. A cookie that is my true heart's desire. And you know, she's four. So like that is all consuming. I want a cookie. She means it. Yeah, she means it. She means like that is really what I most desperately want in the world and as her parents. Like God is our parent is, is like, you don't need another, that's not what's best for you. It won't make you feel good, it's gonna erect your teeth or, or whatever. Mm-hmm. And like then we put our child to bed crying because they really wanted the cookie when they wake up, if you ask them like, you didn't get your cookie, but, how much better do you feel? She will not be like, you're right. I, I feel great about the cookie. She will start crying again and be like, I wanted that cookie so bad, and I didn't get the cookie. Now, maybe if we ask her in 15 years, she won't remember the cookie or, or she'll be like, that was fine. You were right. My teeth are great now, but I'm not 15 years older. I am. I am a 4-year-old now crying about my cookie. What if instead of your cake was a brownie though? You know what I'm saying? Like in your situation, it's still our daughter. Yeah, yeah. As you Yes. In this metaphor. Yeah. It's saying it's getting complicated now. It's getting complicated. It's saying, but I didn't get the cookie and I wanted the cookie. What I got was sleep, which is not a sweet treat at all. I, for me it is totally, to be totally honest, but like not for a 4-year-old. Yeah. So. If it wasn't you, you, we don't have a cookie, but you have a, an enormous piece of cake. Yeah. Would she care about the cookie? No. So I think, and is that true? Because I feel like if we asked our daughter and we were like, I think that's true, we could give her the co, the cake and then as she's going to sleep, she'd be like. But I really wanted the cookie, she'd be excited about the cake, but she would also feel a profound disappointment about not having the thing that she had set her mind on this, this how you feel about your cookie. Yes, that's how I feel about my cookie. Okay. This is'cause you set your mind on it. How much of it is just because you decided it? I don't know. Are you able to? No. How am I supposed to, how am I supposed to know that? Did it trigger you? Personal question, and then I'm gonna kick it over to you. Okay? Mm-hmm. I forgot my question, but, oh, hopefully, hopefully it'll answer. Did it, did it or does it trigger you that I, with this similar career and question, have found myself being like, if it's not this, it's gonna be a brownie. Like if it's not this, it's a brownie or a cake, it's not. No cookie and it's not the death of a cookie. Has it triggered you? No. Your, uh, acceptance of brownie and replace of cookie does not trigger me. I think, uh, I struggle frequently with the amount of cookies on your plate and the barrenness of my own. Okay. Okay. Do meaning opportunities. Yeah. Okay. We've now taken the cookie. We've like, we've messed this metaphor up a little bit here. No, I don't think so. I, I'm back with it. I hope everyone at home all did, but, okay. So for you, the cookie, are we talking just like in general, artistic, fulfill fulfillment, artistic fulfillment. Okay, great. But you want that specific cookie? Yeah. Are you, will, are. Would you ever consider. Like Ari, or like, I, I,'cause I'm very similar too. Like I have this, like, if it happens, it happens, but I am doing everything I can to do this. Yeah. But I also am,, perspective is everything is like, you know, I'm healthy, I have this, I have this. So I'm, I'm grateful for the things I have. And you know, so we get into that. I feel like I'm going off topic, but like. Does does the idea of God's plan. Mm-hmm. When, when things, when you don't get your cookie. Mm-hmm. Does God's plan, does that, does that give you solace? Like, does that, does that help? Mm. Uh, sometimes. Sometimes I think sometimes it depends on the day and how I'm feeling and. Yeah. How long it's been since I've eaten a cookie. Right? Yeah. I have one more. And have you ever doubted and God, yeah. Okay. I think so. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think, I think faith has like, got to be a choice. Yeah. You know, just like if, if like, faith is a form of love, uh, like love is also a choice. Like you have to keep choosing it. You know? Mm-hmm. And you're just like, oh, I'm in love. And like That's great. Yeah. And like, and just let it sit in the corner somewhere. Like that's not right. You have to practice. It's a relationship. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta, exactly. It's a relationship with God and you have to practice faith. Right. Just like you practice love and, and some days you're like, my love does not feel like the love I want to feel. We have to keep chipping away at it. Right. You know? Yeah. Do you remember the biggest crisis of faith that you had? I don't know. I feel like less crisis of faithy and more like. Tevy and Fiddler on the Roof where he is like, why me? Like, why, why is it gotta be so difficult? Everyone else is like, you can s it, you can sing the song. Okay. You wanna it? Yeah. I don't wanna sing the song. Engagement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. If it's so terrible to have all this success and it's like, why can't I have it? Yeah. It'll just gimme a little bit. Mm hmm. You know, you know, something that Philip is good at that both me and Olivia have discovered we are working on mm-hmm. Is like, I feel that you really believe that you can have it all, and it can all be good. And like we both have this thing that we're working on of, if something is good, it has to be counterbalance with something bad. That's like a, a limiting belief. Yeah. It kind of goes into like my ideolog of like, well, I'm grateful for this at least, like, I at least have this, so I'm not gonna rock the boat. If that means I'm, you know, that's exactly what brought up for me was when you said that. Yeah. Because I don't feel like you think that way though. I don't, I don't think that way. I feel like that, I don't know about you Olivia, but with Rie I feel like, it is a, that that thought process mm-hmm. Is a form of control. It's like the only bit of control she has over the stuff. A hundred percent. You know, for me it's like, it's like that thing you have, I don't know if you have this, but like, if I can run to the end of the sidewalk Yes. Without taking a breath, then this thing will happen. I've done that. You know, like in so many weird little things. Yeah, exactly. Because superstition is so baked in spirituality. That's because it's governed on one of these episodes. I don't know, one of the ones don't do that, but I think, is superstition. Spirituality or is it the bastard offshoot of spirituality where you're like, this is my, uh, like effort where I get to control the spirit, the mystic spirituality, you know, like so much of spirituality I think is like, there's stuff out there and it's our access and communication to that. But like, you don't get a lot of control. You have control over your own practices, but you don't get to control what the greater truth is. I'm so glad we're recording that. What, I'm gonna play that back to you'cause you just, you've heard it here, but, but that's your, what you're saying here is that, that's your issue is that you want it to be your cookie. Yes. So you recognize that you don't have control. You feel like you caught me. I agree with you. I recognize that I still want the cookie. Okay. Like, so how? Okay. But like, but like in the, the, the superstition method, I'd be like, but I can have the cookie. If I sit with my arms crossed in a certain way and I don't blink for three minutes, then the cookie will come to me. Are you superstitious? I don't think I am. What about Oracle cards while we're on superstition? You're just really bouncing around here. Well, no, we're not really, because you didn't wanna pull an Oracle card, which I knew. Mm-hmm. But I, I'm trying to pretend like you're a guest on my podcast, so I'm not married to you. Mm-hmm. But what's the story behind that? Because that feels almost like, what's the, why don't you feel comfortable with Oracle cards? They, I don't know. They just creep me out. A creep. Yeah. Because you feel like it's calling in some sort of spirit or is it perhaps a superstition? Um, the, uh, spiritual, the Catholic spiritual teaching would be that like, uh, something like with a tarot card is first of all that the spiritual world is real like. Off the bat, spiritual world is real. Right. And that they're good spirits. Yeah. And bad spirits. And when you engage in some spiritual practices, it's like picking up, uh, the phone and dialing a random number. You don't know. Okay. Who you'll get is the traditional teaching on that. So I'm like, I just don't wanna mess around with that. Uh, and this is for'cause, uh, there is a difference between tarot and Oracle card. It's educate me. So the tarot is the set deck that starts with a fool that ends with the world and also has like the cups and the swords. It's the more like recognizable that it's like a set deck. Mm-hmm. Oracle is like a made up deck. They, it has probably very similar, but they, it's not like a set thing that's the difference. Mm-hmm. Um, and the tarot deck basically follows the story. Like the major ANA cards, which is like the, the, the more popular faced ones. Mm-hmm. Follow the story of the fool and you follow his journey. Okay. I guess in, in the end they're both, cards tapping into the spiritual world. Mm-hmm. So, and I don't think there's anything wrong with tapping in the spiritual world, per se? Right. I think the, I think the reticence is like, the most extreme version of this would be a seance, like I'm contacting like an entity, right. That I don't necessarily know, necessarily know. So do you know that there are dark entities? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Like Dark Angels or like, is there a name for that? Is it? Yeah, they're called demons. Demons, yeah. Okay. Damons Damons. Okay. But I, I think there's good in the world, just like there's evil. I mean, just like in people. Mm-hmm. Right. This podcast is going places we're heck yeah. Digging into it. I have a question. But I almost wrote it down and, and asked Olivia to say it too.'cause I feel like when I say it. It's gonna sound really judgmental, so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna not look at you and I'm gonna smile the whole way. Okay. I'm gonna look at you. I'm okay. How are you changing the fact that you feel like you just are looking for this one cookie with the knowledge that you have of it not being in your control? Do you wanna rephrase that without the cookie thing?'cause like, what if the cookie thing gets lost, then its metaphor is. You know, 10 minutes ago we said cookie so many times. Yes. Ooh, this is, we're gonna call this one the cookie monster H fault cookie. Yeah. Um, okay. How are you reckoning mm-hmm. With the fact that you want this thing so badly mm-hmm. Acting career, but you have the knowledge that it's not in your control. Yeah. And those two things are at odds with each other. Mm-hmm. Are you reckoning with that? And if so, how? Um. Yeah, I think I, I'm, I'm doing things to expand, like, so I'm trained as an actor. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've resisted for a long time, like writing. Oh. Uh, because I'm like, I, I want to act. And people are always like, well, you wanna act and no one's giving you a job. Like, you should write something. And my response is always that's someone else's job. I don't, I don't wanna have to take on a whole second career. Yeah. Just to do the first career that I wanted to do and to begin with. Um, so I resisted that for a really long time, but recently, like in the last year, I've started writing something with some friends. Yeah. And it's, and it's felt very artistically fulfilling. It is not fulfilling in the same way that acting is, but it is fulfilling in, in a different way, a brownie, if you will. A brownie, even though what I really want is a cookie. Yeah, I get that. I think that's, I do get to eat something, which is nice. I think that's smart.'cause I'm very similar. I think boat too, where I haven't reached my acting career where I want, not even close. Yeah. Yeah. Not even close. Mm-hmm. You know, I've been here for 10 years and LA and it does help doing other projects. Wearing other caps, even though what I would love is just to be cast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just cast me. Yeah. You know, and, and I have been encouraged, and I do love like writing, I've done, you know, wrote sketch and produced and stuff like that. And it, it does, yeah. You're right. And like, it's, it's a brownie. It feels good. Yeah. Um, yeah. That's great. Yeah. That, I mean, that's the trick with the, fine arts, right? Well, the collaborative art form. Mm-hmm. Is that like, it's. You need the other parts. And fortunately, the writer's upstream, so like you could write and get something at the end of it. And even if it doesn't get produced, at least you'd be like, I, I did this thing. Yeah. But if you're like a director or an actor, you're like, well, the thing has to, I'm down the chain. Someone's gotta hire me. Yeah. That's annoying. Do you feel like there will be a time where you're just like I have faith that. I'm not gonna fight the plan. The plan is gonna happen to me without it being like, I'm not working hard. We've talked about this a lot'cause I feel like hard, don't think you can fight the plan. Like I don't how, how do you meant, I mean, you're mentally fighting the plan. I think Yes, I can, I can chafe at the plan, but like certainly. But like what do you, do you see in your future time where you just accept that this is the plan and like. This is the plan. Yeah. You know, Uhhuh, or do you just think that that's not in the cards for you right now? Do you think you will not accept the plan until the plan is going the way you want it to? I, I think there's a good chance that I will not enjoy the plan until it's going in a more positive direction. You know, I, I think the thing that I really struggle with is like the baseline idea, like. God loves us each and wants us to be happy. Uh, and what if God's plan for me, where he loves me and wants to be happy is like doing something that's not what I want to, not acting at all. Right. Like not creative at all. Right. It's like raising chickens on a farm. Right. Do you feel like God's plan is acting for you? I don't know. Okay. It, it feels like if it's not, why put me in this position? Like why? And every time I'm like, this is driving me crazy. Mm-hmm. I get like the tiniest little cookie crumb of like, that's what I was gonna say, but maybe you should sting around, you know? Yeah. And then I'm like, great. Where's the rest of the cookie? And cookie's not gone. You're right. You're not gonna be able to cut out cookie. The cookie's been mentioned. Yeah. Um, and like you said, not until you are standing outside the painting, which I thought that was a great Yeah. Little metaphor. You know, love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you believe that God wants, loves you and wants you to be happy, and his end plan outside the painting is like fill up on a chicken farm, I would be happy in theory. Mm-hmm. But where I'm standing now, I feel like if you told me you'll be happy on Chicken Farm and be like, but there will be a hole in my heart where this thing that I really am passionate about. Is supposed to be. And it's not out there with the chickens. You are not performing. Yeah. Hamlet for chickens. Yeah, exactly. Chickens. Yeah. That's hard. Yeah. And I think that's Aries endless frustration with me. It's like, if, if this, and if this and if this, then why can't you just like be zen about it? And I think I, uh. I just really struggle with being chill about it. Maybe if I had more faith, I, I would be like, that's God's plan and I'm just gonna roll with it. But like, as a person, I am hardwired to be yeah. Um, a couple things before I forgot one, I just feel like I wanna reiterate this. The times when it's been the hardest, most soul destroying for you. The, I feel the universe has sent you, you call it crumbs, but like a callback, a booking, but of a commercial or whatever. Mm-hmm. So to me, I just wonder if there's some. Inner work that could be done surrounding the proof that has been given to you that would get you closer to the goal of what you want? I mean, listen, on my best days, I like get in my car with my daughter on my way to her school and say a prayer and it's like about how thankful I am for. You know, my beautiful wife and my healthy, beautiful children and like a place to live and a secure job. And all the great things, the great blessings that I have. It's so much easier to be thank, to be thankful. I'm like a, a day when I'm in a good spot. Mm-hmm. On my best days, my, my prayers are about how blessed I am and being really thankful for that. Yeah. But like, not every day is our best day. Yeah. You okay there? It's hard. Yeah. I think ultimately that's kind of what we, at least what I, what I thought about doing this podcast, and I think we all are trying to find what it is on those days. Mm-hmm. What's gonna help us. Yeah. That is what, what we're seeking. You know? Yeah. And finding that. Wow. So if it's someone's worst day today, what do you recommend they do? Yeah. What do you recommend us to do for two weeks? Oh, well, that also, but let's say somebody, oh, one of the 12,000 listeners are listening to this and they're on their worst day. Oh, okay. What do you tell them to do right now? I, I say from my, uh, infinite place of wisdom where I've got it all figured out here. I would say, say a prayer about whatever you're going through. You know, like even if you don't have a, a praying practice, be like, God, this thing's happening and it sucks and it's awful and I wish was better. Please help me. And then I would do something to get your heart rate up. Go for a run, dance, do some pushups. Dance. Dance video. Yeah, yeah. Sleep with your hot wife, whatever you got going on. Like something to make you feel like a human being. Don't cut that out. That's important. No, that's advice from a priest. You should say that in. Um, and, uh, that's so funny. Like, and then like eat a cookie. You know, like do, do something that like. Brings that, you know, brings you joy. Yeah. That, that is good advice. You know, that's good advice. I'm just really obsessed with like, cookie. What, what is your cookie? This is kind of like, not sub spiritual. Mm-hmm. But like, what, what is your, what's your cookie? What's your, what's your, your, like, favorite actual cookie? Favorite, uh, or your not, it doesn't have to be a sweet treat or it could be. Mm-hmm. But like, what's the thing that makes you happy? I would say it's on my mind.'cause I gave up sweets for Lent, so it's just like, yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, yeah, I think, uh, it's like. A glass of wine. Okay. Or like a, a whiskey. Mm. And something sweet, like chocolate chip cookie scoop of peanut butter. Oh yeah. I love a scoop of peanut butter. Uh, you know, and then, and then play a video game. Watch a show that I like, read a book. I don't get a lot of chance to read a book, sometimes book on tape, but like, something that I just like, I, these are things that I know I like. Mm-hmm. And even when I don't feel like doing them, I feel better. Okay. Doing that. Doing it. That's good. Okay. So we need to pick a practice of yours that we do for two weeks. So what I have written down, I have a notebook, everyone. Yes. It's yellow. I, I, when you offered me a notebook, I wanted to picked the yellow one. You were, I thought you were too. I thought you, I would've given you the yellow one. No, no, no. That's why I'm glad you used are using one. Okay. It's for usda. Yes. Mm-hmm. Sure. Um, okay, so I have the morning prayer. I also have thankful prayer, which I like. I have a gratitude journal as you know, but it's not a prayer, it's written. Right. I think there's something about like speaking. Yeah. Say it. That's important. Yeah. Just say it out loud. Yeah. Like what do you think about that? I love that. And also, I also was just curious too, what about days, like you always mentioned it in your car. Mm-hmm. Is that your favorite place to pray? Gosh, I think it's not my favorite place to pray Uhhuh, but it's somehow, it's the place where I'm least distracted. Yeah. By like everything else. Right? Yeah. You know, it's like it's part of a routine, which is good, like mm-hmm. I'm doing this. And like I have to leave early in the morning, so like, it's quiet. There's not really anything going on and like I can turn off the radio and I don't have, I can't literally cannot do anything else but drive, you know? Mm-hmm. I have no option. There's no phone to get distracted by. There's no like dishes to do. Yeah. It's, I find it like a really great, nice. Okay. Place to pray. I was just wondering. Yeah. Yeah. I love that question. Yeah. Okay. I'll try praying. I never. Well, I only prayed when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Who were you gonna pray? I was just thinking that two. I think I will pray to Mother Earth. Yeah. Yes, actually. Yeah. Okay. That feels So for two weeks in the morning, we'll do a thankful prayer. Okay. I love that. Okay, great. Yay. Yay. Thanks, Illa. This is wonderful. Do you wanna plug or any, any, cause you wanna say, donate your time and money to this cause too? No pressure. No pressure, I mean, or anything you're excited about? Yeah. I, I feel like, uh, s Oda super exciting. Are you? Yeah. Oh my God, you're a great guy. I love that. Yay. Well, Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Thanks for having me. Yeah.