SPODA: Dr. Tanushree Verma, Ecopsychologist, Mixed Media Artist, Nature Lover

In this Episode Ari and Olivia discuss Doug's spiritual practice of volunteering and implementing it in their everyday lives. Olivia opens up about her show coming to an end and Ari discusses her growth and the new process she practiced when she got a big guest star audition! 

Then we bring in our guest, the magical and calming Dr. Tanushree Verma! She breaks down the new study of Ecological psychology. We also discuss Hinduism, Tanushree's experience at a week long silent retreat, and her lifetime connection with nature.

Beautiful music by: Doug Harvey

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Email us insights and developments of your own! spoda.contact@gmail.com

Follow Dr. Tanushree Verma @Wormtea.community and @t.wormz

Check out Tanushree's website to join her community! :)

www.wormteacommunity.com 

Transcript

0:11

Oh, okay. Hello. It has a countdown now. Oh, this is a good way to address this. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes. Uh, welcome to Spoa. Oh, yes. Okay. Yes. Uh, welcome to Spiritual Practices of the Disgruntled Artist. Where we interview a new artist each episode to learn how they are keeping themselves sane and spiritually healthy during this epically challenging time to be an artist. Yes. And then we ask each guest, uh, what practices that they're currently using and we try to implement those for the next two weeks Yeah. And then, and then we start each episode by talking about what we did and how it worked. Yeah. A little review and what felt about it. Yeah. Also, we wanna say that we have really nice mics now. But these episodes are not recorded in real time. Right. So today, for, for your records, it's July 5th. Yeah. But the episode you're gonna hear was recorded maybe three months ago. Right, right. On a not great mic system. Right. So, but eventually the, the recordings will line up and all of it will sound similar. Yeah. You've got about two more I think. Wow. Really? Yeah. Wow. Sorry. Sorry about it. Um, what was, hi. Hi. Hello. Hi. Um, uh, so our practice from last week, we had Doug Harvey on mm-hmm. Love Doug Harvey. Ugh. So good. So good. And he had volunteer work. Right. And I feel like you were the queen. Of this practice. Really? Really? Yes. Because my impulse was okay, I used to volunteer at the Braille Institute, and then I also volunteered at this homeless shelter. But you had to like sign up and like, then you do like a six hour shift. And of course, and it, it makes sense with who we are, right? Like I was like, okay, well we gotta sign up. We might have to do a training, you know? I'm like, okay, well we're just gonna do it. And you were like, what if. We do something that people can just do and you don't actually have to go to a place to do it. You can put volunteer work into your life, which I thought was very smart. Right. I think that came outta necessity mostly though.'cause I feel like those weeks in particular, we were really busy. Yeah. And I was like, oh, it's just gonna be just harder timing wise to Right. Go and do something. Um, so I think that was my brain's way of like, well, how can I. Still do this. Yeah. In small ways. In tangible ways. Yes. In ways that I can continue on. Yeah. Because I do really wanna sign up. I really wanna do these. Yeah. I, I would, I'm not, I guess bigger is not the right word, but like more official forms Yeah. Of volunteering. I think I, you know, we should really still do. Yeah. Um, but it's not attainable, but it's not attainable. We found great ways. Great ways. Yes. So we, we made homeless kits. Mm-hmm. We made 60 of them. Yeah. They had care packages, a vitamin C packet, two pairs of socks. And it was a variety of like toothpaste, sands, and Oh, yes. And then like a little hygiene kit. Washing and hygiene. Like toothpaste. Yeah. Toothbrush, soap, shampoo. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was, that was it. And then we put them in, in brown paper bags. Have you been handing them out? I have not yet. Okay. Have you Philip Will. Philip has works at the Geffen, so there's a lot people room. Okay. So he's been giving them out, like on his way in, and then that's nice. After we saw a show, he had one in his bag and we put it next to a person who was sleeping on the side of the road. But you know what I thought. We should have put them in plastic packs because it just looks scary. Oh. It's like a brown paper bag. And like I, I was like, unless you give it to them, wake up and be like, but anyway, that's for, we could have write care package or something on it. No. Yeah. We were walking with a group of people and I told'em about it and the podcasts and stuff and they were like, we should do that. That's such an easy way to give back. And I was like, yeah. Right. Yeah. So I did that. It feels good too'cause I do hate when you don't legitimately have any money. Yeah. Or you're just sitting there and. I know you wanna help, and you're like, uh, yeah, yeah. I also started picking up five pieces of trash. Anytime I'm at a park. With the kids.'cause I realized if I don't pick up any trash, I am annoyed at people for literally, yeah. The planet. Yeah. But if I, but if I pick up a lot of trash, I too am annoyed that I'm now spending my time in the park with my kids picking up after other people. Do they, so do the kids pick'em up too, or? I think they would, but I just like, sometimes it's glass and I just don't. But, so five has been a good number for me. I do my five. Mm-hmm. And then I, and that I will continue doing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. The only other thing that I can think of that I also try to implement is just being helpful to my community in general. Yeah. Even if it was like, I feel like I do this already, but there is something about consciously being like, I'm gonna make sure I hold this door for someone, or I'm going to, you know, just small little things of like, I'm gonna try to help in any small way, even if they don't notice it or whatever. Yep. You know? Um, that's also something I try to do a lot. I love that. Will you continue? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I actually really like the five pieces of trash because I'd go on a lot of walks. Yeah. And I feel like. Even if you just, like, I had a plastic bag in my pocket. Mm-hmm. And I can use, use it almost like a doggy bag or even doggy bags, you know? Yeah. You just inside out if you don't wanna touch the trash or whatever. Yeah. You know, and then just like collect it on your, on your way. I love that. Yeah. It's our, it's our world. It's our world. It's our world. That's, I drove me. So I remember being at a stoplight and I saw this guy throwing clamshells out the window. Clamshells what? Eating clams and throwing clams. I mean, uh, okay, so wait, Olivia. Okay. Your show. Tonight is the closing night. Yeah, because you got extended, we got extended nominated for the best show at the Zapp Theater. Woo. The best show. Okay. We didn't win, but, uh Okay, but you're not, but it's about, no, it's an, it was an honor to be, uh, um. Nominated. No, it was great. It was, it felt, it felt nice. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. Are you feeling, do you wanna talk about feeling about the end? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. How are you feeling? I'm feeling great actually. Okay. Alright. Yeah. I'm actually glad you brought this up because I remember the other day when I texted you and I was like, something great's gonna happened today. Yes, yes. Uh, nothing. A flower told you? A flower told me. I literally turned the corner and I'm forgetting. It's like the kind I, I, I should have learned the name of the flowers. They're everywhere. They're like, usually they're a bunch of like little flowers in one and they're like orange and yellow. They're in big bushes. They're popular in the desert. Uh, I'll, they could find it later. Okay. But, um, I turned the corner. And I just like looked, and maybe it was the sun shining in in a certain way, but it just was like glowing. And I just had that overruling feeling of like, today's gonna be good. Hey. You know what I mean? It was just like one of those, like, I feel good about it and nothing really happened. It was a good day, you know? There wasn't like something, worth noting, but it overall, I, I kind of was like feeling that. Dread of the end of the show. Yep. Disappear. Oh, and I was almost a reminder of like, it's gonna be good. Yes, it's gonna be fine. Because I still was dealing with it a little bit, only because I don't have anything lined up at the moment. Mm-hmm. So it was like, how am I gonna feel? And then I was like, you know what, that's not right to think of thinking that, that, yeah. You know. Mindset. And, uh, so far it's been good and I'm really excited and I, and I feel like, this extra performance is just another extra opportunity. Mm-hmm. And it's gonna feel really good. And yeah, I'm, I'm feeling good about it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I'm, I'm really happy. You feel good about it? Yeah. It's also, impressive that it's like. At this point, you've had other shows and you've felt the dread and it feels like you're choosing to feel something different about Yeah. It does feel a little bit like a choice. Yeah. And it can feel, I feel like as an actor, it can feel like things happen to you a lot and that you don't have control over the things that happen to you. Right. But I feel like we should find moments to, to claim it and say, what I can control is, I'm just gonna try my best not to feel right. Disappointed about the show ending. I'm gonna replace that with feeling joy that I had this experience. Yeah. And excitement for what's going next. Yeah. I mean, I feel it feels good now, so I'm really curious to see like a couple months after the show that's Ask me then. Okay. Because I feel like that can, that could be the ultimate like test. Yeah. Not, not that I'm testing myself, but like that can be, you know, more reflective of. How these practices, and I, and I do give credit to all these things that we've been trying. Yep. And dis stay that mindset, like trying to maintain a healthy, spiritual balance Yep. And mindset. So Yeah. And also just not feeling as alone in it. Yes. Because there's so many people who are having the same thoughts and struggling. Yeah. I, I feel it ha has helped me in a lot of ways, but recently I had an audition girls. That's a big one. It was a big one and it came in. It was for a guest star on a show shall remain nameless, and it came in and I, and I had the same thought you had, which is normally when a big audition comes in. Especially now, like I haven't had a big audition for a TV show since the new year. And normally I get this the sides and immediately I'm like sweating. I'm nervous. I'm so nervous that I am unable to start memorizing right away'cause I have to calm myself down. It takes me a couple hours to even calm myself down enough to memorize. And it came in and I thought about what Kiara said, which is an episode which I'll hear in a, I don't know, a couple months, but her practice. Was little spoiler, spoiler. Sorry. Was to find God in all the moments. So when it came in, I said, okay, I'm gonna find God in even this moment. I'm gonna feel excited to memorize this. And instead of feeling nervous and, and I was excited to memorize it. And it was a lot of words, a lot of dialogue, heavy dialogue, a lot of, you know. Like almost jargon kind of stuff too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And some emotional stuff and whatever. And immediately I was like, okay, great. Like I'm excited for this opportunity. And then me and Philip went to Big Bear and it was a virtual audition and I also felt growth.'cause I was like, we're not gonna not go to Big Bear. I'm gonna bring the ring light and I'm gonna set my computer up and have wifi.'cause a couple years ago I would've been like, okay, then we have to come home early. So I have Right. And that is a problem because then I puts so much pressure on this audition that already has pressure on Yeah. And what I'm trying to do is erase the pressure from it. Yeah. And so I was like, we're gonna do it there and it's gonna be great. And then on the way there, there were just so many signs that were typically, no, you're telling me so many signs that had a whole, my whole character in this, these scenes, it was about this one other character and. We were driving to Bay Bear and the name, it was that character's name's Road and I, I mean, I don't want to, you know, um, say it was like, say it, it was like, it's also not a common, it wasn't a common common name. It not a common, you know, it wasn't like, it was not like Miller. Yeah. That's so weird. I was about to say Miller. Really? Yes. Oh my God. It was like, if the name was like. Licken or something like that's how, that's how, uh, random of a name it was. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And all my scenes are with this guy and and we're driving and it's like, Licken Road. I was like, what? So that was amazing. So anyway. Had the audition and I just was like praying. I went to my, my beach, you know, my beach. Yeah. And I just, I, I asked my spirit guides to just be at my back and I just said like, please take the nerves from me. Because also all this stuff has been coming up. Like, I remember when I saw your show, there was one actor in it who I felt her nervousness from the top. Oh, okay. And, and it went away. And she was great. Yeah. But I felt her nervousness and I, and I was thinking since I'm going into my own show process, like. I need to eliminate nerves. Nerves are not helping me perform to the best of my ability. Yeah. Uh, my ability is, my ability and nerves are not going to, if there's any way for me to remove the nerves, I need to try at least mold the nerves into energy. Yes. That is gonna fuel just the creative process and not distract you. Like I think there's, that's yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Like what is nervousness? If it's not nervousness. Us because to me, when I was watching her show, that girl that I'm talking about, it was like she almost felt like she shouldn't, she didn't deserve to be there or something. Interesting. Then she settled into it. Okay. Okay. Interesting. But I was thinking about how in an audition you're not given all that time. Yeah. You, yeah. You have to enter being like, I belong here. Yeah. So many times I, there's been auditions where. You go in, you do it. And then I almost wanna be like, wait, can I do it again, Because now that now that I've done it, yes. Like I actually now am more present and I wanna do it again'cause I feel better. Yeah. And it's like, how do we skip that? Just jump and skip that? Jump that you don't do that. You consciously were like, I gonna jump that. And that was my goal. That was my goal for the thing was to not have nervousness, you know? Um, so, so it was, it was virtual. It was in a self tape? It was a virtual, okay. It was the option like, because now they have to. Provide a certain number of in person or virtual appointments, and there's always a temptation for me to go with the tape because that nervousness isn't there. But I've been trying to actively, I mean, when I went in, I don't know, in November, it was another one of these things and I was like, I'll go in person. And it was for Disney and yeah. And I had a really good rapport with her. Like I think that is, it's important. But, and there was also a podcast I was listening to where a guy was saying, just if you can just eliminate the nerves, just story, a story about how his nerves like got him to not get a role and stuff. And just I that, I think that's just the next level is just, yeah. Take the nerves away. Mm-hmm. Because really when I went in there with no nerves, we, she remembered me. I auditioned for her like five or six years ago for a different show. Wow. She remembered me. From then, we had a great rapport. I was talking to her about like my character's backstory and stuff. She had me do all four scenes. She gave me two adjustments on two of the scenes, and I did those again. That's great. Yeah. It was great. And, and I think it started from, she just recognized that I, I wasn't like blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Like that. That's attractive to people to be like, Hey, we're doing this thing together. So it was really good. She was very positive. That's great. A lot of great feedback. Really, really. It was, it was really great. And then, so then I also wanted to change the way that I approach it afterwards.'cause then usually after an audition. I either do the thing of, well, it was just an honor, basically. It's just an honor to be nominated. It's just an honor to be in the room, which I either am, like I'm, you know, I, I probably won't get it. But you're setting your expectations Uhhuh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I'm just thinking, praying, wishing about it all the time. Yes. Hope I get how I get it. So I just tried to be like, if it is for the highest good, it will happen. And, and also, you know, I know I made a good impression in that room. Yeah. Yeah. So That's so great. Yeah. That's so great. Yeah. So it's great. It was very like trusting in in everything. Yeah. I think it feels better with like that. Yeah, I think so. I mean there's just, it's like we can't con there's just so much we can't control. I know. But I think we can control really trying to release the nerves. Yeah. Our reactions. Our reactions. And I also was thinking. I can't expect myself to be nervous in all these steps leading up to being in a room, being nervous when I get the sides, being nervous when I'm memorizing, and then expect myself to get into a room and be totally calm. Yeah. Your body's already conditioned to that point. Yeah. Even just to that material, your body has now a sense memory of when I'm reading this. Or acting this or memorizing this, I'm nervous about this. Yeah. And then, so then you can't go in a room and be like, I'm free. Like, I'm fancy free. You know, just, it's your, your body won't respond that way. So I think it starts from a lot earlier on in the process than I, than I realized. It kind of reminds me of like this idea, and every time, every now and then I'll try to use it. It is like. If I am feeling nervous, saying like, you are providing a solution to their problem. Mm. They are seeking this role. Yes. Right. You have the ability to do that. Right. And. It's like that idea of like, I can do this. And also I think the other thing that get just gives me a little. I almost wanna say a little pillow of comfort here is that they are casting so many different parts all the time that I, I find comfort in going in and saying, this is my best version of this character. Maybe you think I'm too young for this. Maybe you think I'm too old. Whatever. Yeah. But you have, you've given me enough material now where you can really see a lot of what. I can do in this world of this show. Mm-hmm. And it's only possible another role comes along and they just don't even have me audition and just say, yeah, they already know it happened with Dexter. That's how I, I mean, I auditioned for a different cop on Dexter that I didn't get, but they, they booked me on another cop.'cause they were like, okay, yeah, as you can do that, like it should probably be fine. That, yeah. Oh. So I'm so happy. I'm so proud of you. Yes. Thank you so much. I'm proud of you. Yeah, it feels good. It feel like, yeah. I don't know. I think it's helping me just learn and, and kind of change, change the process Yeah. As we go along. Yeah. And like you said, I think like a lot of I unexpected, uh, benefit from this podcast is like this idea that we're not alone. Mm-hmm. Like everyone is, has their doubts, their. Yeah. And, and the remedies, you know? Yeah. And so it's been, it's been so nice to do that. Yeah. Yay. Yay. I'm excited to see what happens next. I know, I know. What a, what a funny like time capsule it is. I was think thinking about it even with this episode 10 news episode, which you guys will hear, which is great. Ugh. Because I was in such a different place then than I am now, and I think I even say in it. In three months when this ends. I don't know what I'm sure. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's so funny and I feel like change is all over again. You're watching our, the waves of life. Yeah. Yeah. But that's that. I like that. I like that we can see that and, and know that it's, it's a cycle, baby. Yeah. But back to the circles. It is, it's circles. It's circles and it is, yeah. The, the, the wave of it all the up and down of it all. Oh, wait, I was gonna ask you one more thing. Okay. One more thing. Any, any update on the Spirit guides front? No, you know's. So funny is I did meditate. I don't know if I said this already, but I did meditate once, not far after Julia's episode. Mm. And. The idea of doing,'cause I know, uh, she recommended doing like a altar or something like that. Yeah. And because I truly just don't know. Right. Yeah. I, I like, what do I, I decided that may not work for me at this point. Right. Maybe if I feel a certain channel. Uh, but I did, I did, um, meditate and I wasn't like spear guides come to me. Yeah. I was more of like, I'm getting to open that portal. Yeah. And then if I get anything, maybe Yeah. But, uh, again, maybe that was already a closed off version to this idea. Mm-hmm. Um, but you know what's so funny is. Uh, I almost sent you this, uh, clip'cause I, I watched Pocahontas and, grandmother Willa has this thing of like there's spirits surrounding you and if you listen, they will guide you, kind of thing. Ooh, okay. And that's, that's everywhere. Yeah. You know, it's more of nature based. Yeah. And I was like, that. Maybe, maybe if there are spear guides, it's more Yeah.'cause I was thinking about the cloud. It's not as like a pers Yes. Yeah. I was like, that makes more sense to me. It's not like a specific person or, yeah. So I love that. Yeah. Okay. Keep us updated on your I will, I will. And maybe I'll, I'll try it more often, but, But I also think if you're not called to it, you're not called to it. I think that's it too. It's like not, it is not that I. Wouldn't be, it would be great to have spirit guides. Right. But it doesn't, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't resonate quite yet or strong enough for me to like Go after it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are your spirit guides? They're good. They're good. There's four. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely liked, I liked the image of when I was in that audition. I put two on each of my of my shoulder blades. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think that helps. I kind of like that when you said earlier, like you called on your spirit guides to back you up or just be there. I had this visual reputation of like. Just people behind you, just like ready, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to take the nerves. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. The show that I love, Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader. Are we talking to you about it? The DCC. I know you watch Keep on asking about, I've watched it and I was like, no, no, no, no. I get, yeah. I mean it's, yeah. Thunder. Yeah. There was this one girl and in season one. I mean she's very religious throughout, like she okay, but in season one it's like highlighted a lot her belief in God and stuff. And this girl's like, she's an amazing dancer and all the other girls are really nervous obviously because it experience give them enough time. All the reasons she just has no nerves and she is just really. Like 10 toes down. If God wants me to do this, God is gonna make me be a part of this team. No doubts at all. Does she wanna be on the podcast? Oh my God. Find it. I mean, she's nice. Super famous now. I mean, and I really saw, when I saw her, I was like, wow, because she doesn't have any of the nerves. She just, her talent is able to shine through because she has so much belief in something greater than herself that it is taken care of in a full way. Wow. I wonder if that's honestly where it started for me, of being like. How do I get to that point where I can just, just, just perform for my heart and, and also have so much belief that if I have an audition that does go awry, I truly think then that's what it was meant to be. I think you could get there. I think you're on your way. You think so? I definitely do. I feel, I mean, listening to this, I sound like all over the place, but I, but here's the thing, like we don't know if. She also has moments. Right. You know what I mean? Like Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we don't know her whole journey. Right. You know, and I would imagine that she had to figure that out. Yeah. I mean, she's probably young. She's what, probably early twenties. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think, I think you're definitely on your way. Thanks. I hope so. It's also just practice. Yes, exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. So I just wish there were more auditions to P. Maybe that's what I, I need to be putting it in the universe more. Yes. More opportunities to practice the non, the known nerves thing. Yeah. Which means in person or virtual appointments, because that is not audition for me right now. I, yeah. Maybe come up with this side. No, I think that's great. I, I mean, yeah, that makes sense too.'cause there's idea of like. If you even have auditioned or if you haven't had a big, especially big ones. Yeah. You know, you reflecting on like, oh, am I rusty or am I, you know? Yeah. Just it, just to stay in the practice of this is, I, I don't need the nerves, but anyway, that's what I'll call in for myself for, for a greater thing. It also is kind of fun that it's sort of more of a game now where, like the next big audition I have, it's to practice, Ooh, not having nerves. Honestly, I think that alone. Takes away half the nerves. Yeah, right, because you're like ch, you're like focusing on something else. Yeah. That you can control. Yeah. I think you can control it. I don't know. I wonder what, what do you guys think? Can you control nerves? Is it just a, something that happens to you that Well, that's why I think whenever I'm nervous, I try to try to shingle, I'm always like, air Bending it into, into like excitement or you are feeling that energy and going, okay, instead of it being a distraction or hindering me, I'm going to use it to know that this is my love showing up. This is my desire coming up. They're all coming from good things. And so if I can, you know, kind of keep molding it and framing it and knowing that like these nerves are going to benefit me and turn into excitement or turn into. Just general energy, whereas I'm just trying to like, eliminate it basically. But I think eliminating it is the same thing. We're trying to remove anxiety in two different ways, in two different ways, but I think the, the same concept is there. And you're doing it also by just changing it, you're, you're using meditation, you're using Yeah. All these things. Yeah. I also did, I was really intentional about meditating. I mean, I, I, spent the first day, every 30 minutes I set an alarm. Every 30 minutes I'd go over the lines. The second day I did an hour.'cause we're still like on vacation. Yeah. If I missed time, like it was fine. I wasn't too stringent. Yeah, yeah. But the day of the audition, I went over it two times and then before I just did like a 20 minute meditation went down to my beach. Mm-hmm. And, and I also visualized how I like, kind of wanted to go, not the choices that I made, but the sort of impression. Yeah. And I visualized her giving me feedback. And actually during that meditation, she gave me a direction in the meditation that I actually applied to the scene. Wow. And she let, she interesting. And when I went on, she was like, I just wanna say one thing, like this character,'cause the character is lying a lot. Yeah. And she was like, but they're in grief. You know? And that was what my meditation taught me about that scene. But it, it was, I was like, yeah, I, I, I almost was like, am I meditation? I probably could have, because at the end, the last scene was really emotional and she was like, okay, we're gonna put our hands behind our head and we're just gonna open our heart. Shocker.'cause you fit, you know, a lot of emotions. I know. I was like, wait, yes. She would've told me, oh, she helped me open my heart. Shocker. I'm like, wow. Oh, I kind of love that. So you put your hand behind your back, Uhhuh behind your head. Yeah. And it just like opens us And you just like are feeling yourself breathing.'cause she was saying, that's so funny. I'll do that if I'm also nervous too. Really? I like expose myself. Yeah. Oh, oh, I love it. You know, I like chest out and like head back because then it's like, I feel like when we get anxious we tighten, we go in. So if I notice that I'm trying to be a, you know. Not only a receiver, but like a, what's the opposite? Uh, like, um, giver. Giver, yeah. Of, of, you know, I'm like, before performing. Yeah. Especially, I'll like kind of just Oh, okay. Do that. I'm opening myself up. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I wanna meet her. Oh, she's great. That sounds, she sounds great. She's fantastic. Uh, I'm so proud of you again. Thank you. I'm proud of you. It's good. I feel like it's. It's happening. Yeah. It's also like it is happening. We are doing it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think thinking it's going to happen. I mean, that's what all this manifestation stuff says. You're supposed to say it currently. It's happening. It's currently happening, but it is actually, currently it's, yes, that's thing. It's, uh, it's that good. So good. We'll see what happens in where. I'm, well, I, I will, we'll end it on this before we get to our guest. I think when I say like, you're getting there. Yeah. As far as being like, uh, the cowboy cheerleader Oh yeah. The cowboy cheerleader. You know, for you to become the cowboy cheerleader. Yeah. Um, I think the reason I feel very strongly that you were on your way is because like, I mean, think about before where part started this podcast where we were, and yes, we joke that in two weeks, three weeks, who knows? But like. I think because we, we just know that we're humans. We're gonna feel things. Yeah. We're gonna be disappointed and that's okay. Yeah. But we are, we're just getting stronger. That's why it feels like. It this, even, even within the waves. Mm-hmm. It's still going up. Yes. Yes. Like, even though it's two steps forward and one step back. Yes. The step back is getting smaller and the steps forward are getting bigger. Exactly. So even though it's the same pattern. Yeah, I, I, that's what I mean by that. I was like, no, I, yeah. It feels tangible at this point even. Thanks. So I also think it's beneficial to hear yourself. Go through it. Mm-hmm. I don't, maybe I recommend that. I don't know how you would, how people would do it. You should all start a podcast. Come on here. Yeah. Come on here. Or, or, because I'm sure voice memos are just writing. Yeah. I think people sometimes forget how they feel about something. Yeah. And so they'll go back and like, oh. Do you like journaling? Well, I do my gratitude journal. You do your, but do you I do. Go back. Journal, journal, journal, journal. Sometimes. Do you ever do a diary? That was actually more specifically my question. Mm. I have and I've enjoyed it, but I've only been drawn to that when I'm very upset. Kind of like your thing with God, where you found you were only praying if something was, you wanted something. I found that I've only journaled. If you're like trying to go through something. Yeah. Or like if I'm upset about something or something. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so it's way one of those practices that like, I wish I could write a di diary more, just more just for this idea of it's a time capsule. Go back and be like, whoa. Like that's how I felt. That's how I thought and all these things. But every time I try to do it, I'm thinking, and I'm talking classic diary style. Okay. Where like on this day I did this. Yeah. Handwritten. Um, I also like to type it'cause it just flows. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I type it too. Yeah. Well always feel very formal to me when you do journaling? Yeah. Or Yeah. Specifically reflecting on the day. Dare you dear. Honestly, dear Olivia, today, this is how you feel. Have you been in that thing where you write a letter to yourself to open? Like when you're having a hard time, the artist way you have. Yes, I remember that. I don't think I did it. I did it. Did you? I, but I Did you use the letter? I did, but I forget what it said. Sorry. It wasn't that impactful of a thing for me. I think. I think it just said what we're saying is there, there were, there will be ups and there will be downs, the ups, you know, like, yeah. That's the only thing. Just relax. Just this would be a picture of a circle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would just be your, yeah. Future. Olivia would be like, what the hell? I just draw a little smiley face in the circle. Um, alright. Alright. Yay. Okay. Well, we hope you enjoy this episode. Yes. And here's our next guest. Hello and welcome to our next guest who's very near and dear to me. We've been friends for 20 plus years. Crazy. Crazy. Doctor Verma. Yay. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah. She's also a director. She's a mixed media artist. Yes. Yes. And she has her doctorate in Ecos Psychology. Thank you so much. Yeah. I wrote in my book, but I can't wait to hear. Um, yeah. Thank you so much. So excited to be here. Oh my gosh, we're so happy to have you. Yeah. We have began to start these Yep. Videos. Okay. Yep. With people either pulling a card or doing three breaths together, or both. Let's do both. Okay, great. Love. I knew she was Do you have a deck in my, uh, I do. I have a deck that, Tanu actually gave me. Oh, really? Uhhuh, it's, uh, based off of crystals or the Gaia one, which I know you've pulled from before or you know, most of my Yeah. Card. So there's one that you are like, wait, where's that one? I, that one? No, no. Let's do the crystals one. Okay. I like that. I like this bag. It's gorgeous. It's like a see through bag with the moon and stars on it. The artwork is so pretty too. Oh yeah. Just wait to see this. I love that. I'm gonna put it in a circle for you. Um, and you know the drill. If you have a question in mind or if you just wanted to ask what you need to hear, can I. Can I say what I'm thinking? Yeah. Yes, please. So I kind of, actually, I'm just, I'm focusing on this conversation and I think it would be really interesting to see what the card says before we get into it. Okay. I love that. Love this. Okay. Okay. You live in? Abundance, Imperial Topaz. Page 71. Ooh, Imperial. What is it? It's so pretty. Imperial topaz. You live in abundance Love. You live in abundance, Imperial Topaz. Uh, the mo's hardness scale is eight. When we are satiated, when we feel that we have enough full spirit, full heart, we can relax and offer abundance to those around us. This is Imperial Topaz gift, the ability to savor life and take nourishment from its beauty. Topaz helps us find sensitivity within ourself so we can notice with all our senses and appreciate with our whole being the workings of the world. From this place of abundance, we become overflowing with energy, which can be shared as kindness or courage or wisdom. With those around us, there is wonder everywhere. Imperial Topaz whispers. It's up to you to take it in and assimilate it into your heart. Um, I love that. Yeah. That its exciting, like that spoke to you. Oh, yeah. I feel like for me it's one of those things where, you know, well, I don't know if you both feel this way, but sometimes I feel like you have a lot to offer, but you don't necessarily know or give yourself that power to be like, oh, I can speak to this. I have even just lived experience to be able to share. Um, and so I feel like that card was actually very comforting in that to say like, no, you, you got this. You know? Yeah. Yes. You can share what, you know. I love that. It's like the imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. Just like even, even when we started this podcast, I feel like there was a bit of like, yeah, what do we wanna know? And or even people that, like we've asked on are like, oh, you know, I don't, I, I'm afraid that I don't know what I'm talking about or anything like that. And I know, and I notice that like. We all have something to share. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah, I think I said that to you when you asked me. I was like, but I also know that you know me, so I was like, if you want me to come, I will 100% do this. Mm-hmm. But, um, I did have a little bit of that, like trepidation to say, yeah, okay. You know, can I, yeah, yeah, let's do it. It's a vulnerable place to be. I think it's also just a vulnerable topic. Like we talk about that a lot. Yeah. Mm-hmm. People don't talk about their spirituality a lot. It's like, I don't know. I, I don't even really know why, you know? Yeah. Now that we've been doing it, I've been like, everybody has like, some thoughts on, or beliefs or practices that they do. Yeah. Even if they don't quantify this spirituality, right? Mm-hmm. Well, it's so funny because I know, you know, we've known each other for so long and I feel like we, we talk about spirituality in the same sense that I think we are both very, very connected to nature, which is, I don't, something that I think you've inspired me on, like really knowing nature and. Um, also maybe one of the most creative people I know ever. Aw. Um, like whenever I think about memories of us, you know, which one sticks out the most, which one is you and, uh, you and me in your room? Choreographing. I, me, mine. I know, I knew it. I knew it was gonna be this one. What, what was it? What song? It, the Beatles song I, me Mine, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yes. I feel like I really wanna do this thing. You remember it? Oh, honestly, I maybe vague. We, I re we had a story. Yeah. But you know, we did theater together, so we did a lot of. We did a lot of pieces together. And for bad dance. Well, it was, it, it was not for anything. No. It was like a sleepover. It was like two in the morning. We, we were just like, let's do it. We'll put on a whole show for literally no one, no one put ourselves. Love that. I am obsessed with that. Yeah. And that's why when I, I, I was like, you'd be perfect on this because it's creativity and you are so in tune and just, you have so much so thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would, go ahead. Oh, I was just saying for our listeners, do you wanna explain what Ecos psychology is? Oh, yes. And for me, yeah, for myself. Of course. Yes. Okay. So, um, it is kind of, I think like a relatively new field of study. Um, and it is also called ecological psychology. So that's what, just in case. Mm-hmm. That's what the ego is short for. Um, but basically it's this idea that we are never isolated from nature and we're, you know, living within it. We're living with it. We're living just like surrounded by it, and that if we understand it, we can also understand ourselves better and we can understand our place in the world better. And. I've found that it really kind of, um, ties together a lot of my interests. So in college and undergrad I was a, um, theater directing major and also an environmental studies major and everyone I told that to was like, what are you talking about? Makes perfect sense to me. And then, and then I found this program, and it was actually because I took an ECOS psychology class at UCSV and the teacher of that class ended up starting this school. Oh wow. So she was like, I think it'd be a really good candidate for this. And it was really kind of that joint effort of humanities and science because it's really about how we live and communicate within this world that is so tied to the natural world and we are like such a part of it. Mm-hmm. That it helps to understand that, to kind of help us bridge our own kind of, I don't wanna say like psychological issues or anything, but it's just kind of. Where we can find that disconnect and how we can move from there. So you work with people mm-hmm. And you work with them about nature? Yes. Or like kind of understanding their place in like, it's a little, it's kind of like through nature. Okay. So you like work with someone, but you bring in, um, like metaphors or relationships that we all have and use those to kind of help shape the story to figure out what narrative somebody is maybe repeating or stuck in and like, okay, is there a something comparable in the natural world that we can look to as a guide? Almost interesting. So it's almost like, it reminds me a little bit of art therapy, which I did when I studied in South Africa. We did some, it was, I guess it was, it was really drama therapy we did with some kids in South Africa, but it was like taking the lens of art. And therapy. So it's, is it kind of like that? Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. And there is, there are, like, that's the thing which is so great about it because it's such a new field. So it's like, there are, there were people in my cohort during school that, um, would use theater. I did like a theater piece. We did dance, we did food. It's like all of these things are part of who we are and make up our psychology. Mm-hmm. And so if we can tackle these things that call to us and kind of let them work through us, we can learn more about ourselves and how we relate to the world. Wow. It reminds me, it's so cool and it reminds me so much when we had our friend Kate on and she was saying that she had this intrusive thought, that was like giving her a lot of shame. And her therapist was like, you should go and give it to a tree or to the ocean and be like, can you take this shame for me? And she did that and she said it was so helpful. And I was like. Wow. Yeah. Like that's so incredible.'cause you're right, like we are part of it and it's part of us, but I think for me, that doesn't feel like, it feels very disconnected for me sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know,'cause that,'cause I gotta be part of the capstone. Yes. Uh, so one of the assignments we had that I still think about every now and then is we had to choose something that we don't know much about. And then understanding it's like beginning its end and, and whatever that meant. And I chose the clover that was in the front and I was like, is does it always bloom? And all that. And I just realized too, just even that small. Focus made me realize of like how many other things that I just take for granted in the world and what, once I got to like, connect to it and like understand it, just even that little clover, you know, I was like, oh, I know this now. And, and it just brings the sense of, uh, I don't know, connectedness. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're, you're looking at something that's kind of outside of you but is living with you. Yeah. And you're like, oh, I've never given you this attention to see like what your life cycle is or like what your growth patterns are. And I feel like it's really interesting'cause then you're, you can kind of mirror that back on yourself and be like, well, what are my growth patterns? What is my cycle like? That's really interesting. Is it Capstone? Was that like a class that you taught? Is that, that's like the thesis. It's like, it was my dissert was a ending project. Yeah. I was a part of a group and we chose a fruit, we chose orange and we really dissected and learned about the orange. It was great. Wow. Especially since I have an orange tree. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's great. Has nature always been sort of part of your spirituality? Yeah, so I always attribute this quality to my grandmother on my dad's side because I remember when I was a child, she was always the one who like collected snail shells and looked at leaves and she would call me over and her viewpoint was very, uh, much more God driven. But it was still like, look at the like, look how different God made each of these and look at the differences in this. And this one is like darker and this one, you know? So I think that really kind of started this off for me and it really propelled me to start looking at things on a more. A detailed level mm-hmm. To just notice and be observant of those things. So I think that's kind of where it started for me. Hmm. Were you brought up like a particular religion? Yeah. So, um, I was brought up as Hindu from both sides, my mom and my dad. However, even in their upbringing, it was a different type of Hinduism. So my dad's side was more, uh, jis, which is like a little bit more, um, I wanna say spiritual in a way where it's not the, my mom's side was more with like the tis or like the idols. Okay. Where you like pray to the idols. And my dad's side was not about that. So, um, they both connected, huh? Oh, that's, no, I, yeah, yeah. Friends learning. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think it was, it's interesting'cause like, yeah, my dad's. Side kind of was more of the origin of like Buddhism. So now if you asked my dad, he would probably say he leaned more Buddhist. But my mom on, then my mom's side, they just, they understood each other. I remember asking about it when I was a child, and what they told me really kind of resonated where they were saying, well, you know, God is so vast, the world is so vast. It helps to have an idol or something that you can kind of attribute certain characteristics to. Mm-hmm. Because we kind of need to compartmentalize that sometimes in order to see what we're praying to, or like really hone in on what we're asking about. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I was thinking about this recently because I feel like I was selling Olivia, I feel like I have spirit guides. Mm-hmm. And it took me, and that's kind of a more recent discovery, like in the past year, but now I've been kind of like. Like I, I've assigned one of them who was like an acting student of mine who passed away from leukemia when he was a teenager. But that is like all my acting trouble, career trouble. I give to Zach. Mm-hmm. Because in a way I feel we're in it together, you know what I mean? But it's interesting'cause I have had that thought too of like, who am I praying to? Like, I, I believe in God, the universe and the spirit guides, and it has helped me to just like, focus on this, this is for him. Mm-hmm. You know, mm-hmm this is yours now you may take this. Mm-hmm. I feel like it does help. Sometimes it's like better to release energy that way, in a more focused manner. Mm-hmm. So I just really resonated with that description because it was, it, I think it pushed me forward. It kinda expanded the world to me a little bit to, at a very young age. I was like, oh, all religion. Is kind of the same. Yeah. It's just assigned different names and characteristics, which makes sense to me in this context. Mm-hmm. But it's like we're all looking for, or at least to like a broad extent looking for and kind of like hoping for the same thing at the end of the day. Yeah. Was it confusing to do, were you asking your parents about why your mom focuses on idols and your dad focuses on nature? Was that confusing to you that they kind of practiced in different ways? Well, we kind of did everything together. Okay. So we just did, we just did everything. You seen all of it? Okay. Yeah, we did everything. They were, they were not like, oh, this is better. This is not kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and my dad's side was, it was not so nature focused. It was more, um, just more of like a cosmic energy. Uh, my grandfather actually wrote a book that he got published before he died, and it's called God Is Consciousness. Wow. So it's like, that's kind of the idea that I grew up with on that side. And, um. So it's more about like that it's a little bit more expansive, I guess. But the, a lot of the prayers, a lot of the practices are similar. It's still Hinduism. Have you read the book? I have started it, but it was so funny because I was reading it and I was like, this is all stuff I grew up hearing him say to me. Wow. Wow. So I felt really lucky about that because I was like, oh, this is just embedded in me now. Mm-hmm. So do you now, do you believe in God now? I wouldn't say that. Okay. I guess I think I'm, but, but I do believe in this consciousness, in this energy, in this force. I feel like, and maybe this is what, I don't know what you guys are if you're hearing this in your podcast, but I feel like God sometimes has a very charged term. It's a very charged term. It's a very specific image that people have. And I think for me, that's a little off putting personally. Yeah. Where it's like, I wouldn't wanna say that's what it is, because I don't know what it is. I can just feel it. Mm-hmm. So, but do you feel that it's like a higher power or you feel that it is like the universal consciousness, which I'm constantly trying to understand and I almost get, I'm always like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes when I meditate I'm like, yeah, like tap into the universal consciousness. Then I'm like, Oop. And like there goes like, I've lost my, my reckoning with it. So I guess it is kind of more of a universal consciousness to me. I've always thought of it almost like a, like an atom that's like charged, you know, like with particles and it's kind of all vibing together and um, has a kind of an energy that we all play a part of and are tapped into and connect with. So it's this idea. So even, so I did, um, the meditation, which is like the 10 day. Course that you do in silence. Oh, wow. And yeah. This the retreat that you went on? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So she went to a silent whoa. Retreat. Yes. Wow. Wow, wow. Yeah. Okay. 10 days silent retreat. You don't make eye contact with anybody. It was crazy. Um, it's free if they make you pay for it, it's a scam. Okay. Okay. Good to know. Yeah. Bossa. BA Vipasana, V-I-P-A-S-S-A-N-A. Okay. Wow. Okay. Vipasana. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Wait, sorry. Tell me how, okay, well, so basically they do guide you, so it's not like you're just thrown to the wolves. Mm-hmm. They, um, basically they teach you how to meditate. You start slowly and then, um, they feed you and everything, you know, and they give you a place to stay. All of that. But then every evening you're, you watch a video that was recorded by the teacher and the founder of this, or I don't wanna say founder, the spokesperson of this type of meditation. Mm-hmm. And then they do have teachers. So if you're having a weird experience or you're unsure about something, you can schedule time with them and talk to them about it. Okay. Um, but yeah, you're just there for 10 days. And I did mine out in 29 Palms. So it's kind of in the middle of the desert. Mm-hmm. You don't have your phone, you don't get to have books or notebooks or anything. Wow. Because they say that if you're taking notes and writing, you're like kind of living in the past already. Mm-hmm. So it's very much about that present experie as I furiously write my notebook. I mean, you know. Okay. But so is it a particular type of meditation that Ana It's, to me it's like they, they really say you can be whatever religion you want and still practice this type of meditation. And there's no chanting, there's no, it's really just. Um, being at peace with your thoughts and trying to get in touch with your body and see what it's telling you and see what comes up, which I think is actually ties to ecos psychology a little bit, where you're just kind of like It does, yeah. You're like, you're like watching and noticing and being like, why does this make me feel that way? Let me think about that. You know? Did you have any big aha moments during that retreat? Um, a few things. So the, I guess one of the things that some people experience, I did experience this actually, is this, at one point when I was meditating, it really felt like I was dissociated a little bit where it felt like. I couldn't really tell you like what the solid parts of my body were. It was like very swishy. Mm-hmm. I love that swish. Yeah. That's just, that's how felt, how, how did, was that comfortable or was it just weird or like, what did that feel like for you? So it was, so that was really weird'cause I think for a lot of people they're like blown away. Like, oh my God, what just happened to me? Um, but for me, after that happened, I was like, this has happened to me before. So it was really trippy actually. Um, and I remembered it was, I read, uh, it was after I read The Four Agreements actually, that book. Oh yes. I love that book. And then I read the end of that book, which is like, after you go through it, it's that idea of like, you know, you have that fire within you and you can pass that fire onto as many people and your fire does not get extinguished. Mm-hmm. And I remember reading that book, I was in high school I think, and I like was lying down on my bed. And I just like, completely felt like I dissolved into my bed. Wow. And so then when I did this later, I'm like, oh, that happened to me already, which was crazy. Um, do you quantify that as like a deep meditation or, um, yeah. Like how, what do you, what would you call that feeling? Mm-hmm. I guess it's a little bit of kind of like a loss of ego. Yeah. Like an outof body experience. I've had also out of body experiences Really. Okay. Separately, but that's like, yeah. That's a little different.'cause for me, that's kind of almost like a third person. Mm. This is more just like a, like fizzling into your environment really. Of just like being con like being really, really connected. Yeah. The way you're describing it is that like, it's almost like all your energy is reaching out to all the other energy around you and it's just like, melding together. Yeah. It's more of like, we all maybe know that if you touch something, it's like things. Are being exchanged all the time. Like the cells are being exchanged, things are jumping around. So it felt like you could kind of see that happening. Whoa. Where it's like, oh, that's part of me and I'm part of that. And everything is kind of moving around. It's like more of our perspective that kind of creates this separation. Mm-hmm. So it's like, it was, it's like high concept. Yeah. Were, did you pop out of that? It was like a bubble popped or you slowly kind of came back? I think it was more of, because it's all about breathing. Yeah. And so really the Vipassana, no meditation, I should have said this earlier, is, is very, very breath oriented. Okay. So you just kind of breathe counts. Like foreign hold that? No, it's, it is just like that's what you're focusing on. Okay. You're just watching your breath. Yeah. So it's really trying to not be judgmental and not be controlling. Um, there was in the beginning, it's so funny. I. Was having issues because I was having like Rage Against The Machine just laying in my head. Really? Yes. I knew about this. I was waiting for you to bring it up like, like aggressively. Aggressively. And I'm trying to meditate and I'm like, what is happening? And I actually had to talk to the teacher about it. Wow.'cause I was like, it's been three days and I cannot get rage against the machine outta my head. Like what do I do? What did they say about what they thought that was? They were just like, you just have to, you just have to let it be. Yeah. You just have to let it be. It'll pass. It's like you're working through stuff., Was it a one song or was it a couple songs? And if it was, when you listen to it now Oh, does it transport you questions back to that Great questions. You know, like, yeah. Yeah. Good questions. It was multiple songs. Okay. Um. And No, I actually haven't thought about that, but I think it's because I love rage against the machine separately. Yeah. So there's a lot of different things I can tie it back to. Yeah. I, I almost wonder if it was like, for me, it, I would think it was like my subconscious wanting to fight the sensation of letting go. Did you go into it, that retreat with an intention of trying to discover something? Were you in a difficult, emotional or mental place when you entered into that? So, yeah, so it was between sophomore year and junior year of college for me. And sophomore year was difficult. It was a difficult time of just like my mental state really. Um, and my dad had done Vipasana, he goes all the time still, but he had done it a couple times and, um, I was like, you know, I think I need to go. I just, I just need to, and that's what I always tell people is like, I think. People should do it. I think it's great, but never do it if you feel like you have to or if someone is telling you to. Yeah. Like you really, it's, it's hard. It's not easy. So you really need to go because you want to. Yeah. And you feel ready. Were you able to take that sort of sensation of I'm connected to everything, everything is connected to me outside of that retreat? Do you feel like it changed you? I feel like it's a good reminder a lot of times because it's like, if things feel, even if things feel targeted at you or something, or if you feel like you're going through such a hard time or you feel like I was saying, really disconnected with your world as I think we all can and our world is kind of like designed to make us feel disconnected from each other and from it. Yeah. So it's kind of a good reminder to be like, it's more of an illusion, you know? It's like something that we kind of do. It's almost like actually. The idols thing where it's like, oh, let's put our energy in these figures because it's too complicated to try to look at the whole scope of it. So it's like, okay, let's put our energy in these figures of our bodies and our personalities and who we are, because it's too complicated to try to look at the world and be like, ah, we're all the same. We're, you know, we're not real people, you know? Yeah. It's a lot. Wow. I feel like I know this answer, but I still wanna ask it. Uh, when you are feeling that way, like, anxious, targeted, you know, like you need to remind yourself. Mm-hmm. What is the quickest way? What, what's something you do? Yeah, that's a really good question. What I've been trying to do now, and it's been the most helpful for me, is to do a sensory exercise, which we did during the capstone as well. But it's really just to take a minute. And be like, okay, what do I see? What do I smell? What do I hear? What can I taste? If anything, like sometimes you can get taste in the air, and then what do I feel? And really trying to use adjectives to describe that because I feel like it focuses you in a way, but it also connects you again.'cause you're like, oh, I'm like, I'm touching this, I'm hearing this. If I'm hearing these birds, they might be hearing me too, and it kind of builds that bridge again. Mm-hmm. I love that. Do you meditate still? Are you an avid meditator? I don't really. I should, I don't. You're really good at this. Whenever I slipped into a deep meditation, it's not what you described. I think that's like a, like an apex, like new level underneath. I, I describe it as being like underneath myself. Mm. I like that. Um, but, but yeah, like I, I'm still like aware maybe that is more like an outer body experience. Mm-hmm. What were, what were the out body experiences that you've had? Oh, yeah. Um. Since I was a kid, I feel like I've always kind of had out of body experiences where I always thought of myself in third person. Mm-hmm. Moments. Even when I was a child. Moments or just in general in the, even in the mirror to myself. I've had only one time where I was looked in the mirror and I swear I was just like, who is that? Yeah. Wait, what? I still do that sometimes and I'm like, I can just move my hand if I want to. Like, it's really weird. It's really weird. Yeah. I've, the only time I've had anything that was like this at all is in New York, you know, they're like, a lot of the bars have mirrors. Oh yeah. But you don't know.'cause it's like everything's so small, they're just trying to make it big. I remember walking in to a bar and I saw what turned out to be myself, but, um, I thought it was another girl. I was like. Why is she looking at me like that? I was like, she looks like such a bitch. And then I was like, it's me. And then I realized, Ooh, I've been really judgmental. Oh no. Wow. But yeah, I didn't realize it was myself for a second and it was really weird. Yeah. And I judge myself pretty hard. It's like when dogs are cats, discover themselves in the air. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Wow. So a little about me. Um, what are your, like what practices do you do currently? Like is this sensory exercise something that you do all the time or just when you're feeling overwhelmed? I try to practice, I especially try to practice if I'm out hiking or something, just because I love it. Like, it feels so cool to even just when you're hiking, to think about things like, okay, I'm stepping here, but like, who else knows? Like who else? Meaning like. Other, not human, um, knows that I'm here and knows that I'm like stepping on this ground. And like, because they all know all of the like insects, hawks can see for miles. They all know that we're there. But I feel like sometimes we are so in our own heads and in our own lives that we don't notice how other people are noticing us. And I feel like it's really cool to think about that. Wow. That is really cool. So like also earlier when you were like, uh, when you're doing the sensory thing, you like, oh, what, you know, if you hear a bird, they probably hear you too. And it's funny how I don't think I ever really think about that. Mm-hmm. Of like, who's noticing me right now. Yeah. And for you guys, like you had the hummingbird nest in your Yes. In your backyard. That hummingbird knew you. It probably knew both of you and was like, oh, these people are not a threat to me. So I feel safe building my nest here. Oh, I think the nest is still there. Yeah. I hope it's, I love that. So do you, do you go outside a lot? I feel like, oh yeah. Yes. I like to go outside, but also sometimes when I can't, it's, um, it's helpful. And this was something, one of the first things I learned in, in ecos psychology is like nature is not out there. It's everywhere. And whether you have plants, I mean as clean as we try to keep our, keep our house, there'll be little spiders living in the corner. Like even, you know, one thing that I love is that you have a microbiome in your gut that you're cultivating, like you're living with all of these organisms all the time, even if you're not thinking about it. Wow. Okay. Wow. Hi little Michael. Bye. Hi. Yeah, soon as you like be drinking or something, be like, I'm so sorry. I so love you. So are you like, you'll never kill a spider, you'll never kill a bug kitchen release? I'm not, I'm not really that person because I don't think we, I also don't think we need to apologize for living. Mm-hmm. I think we need to live consciously and live intentionally, but I think all of that is also part of the natural cycle. Mm-hmm. And it's like, you know, I feel like if I really felt that way, honestly, I think it would be very difficult to live my life as a person who loved myself because so much of that is unintentional. So much of that is like, you're walking and you might step on an ant, and you shouldn't necessarily feel like a terrible person in my eyes. You're also living here. Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. That made me feel like, are we ants to some greater force? Maybe I've thought of that too. Yeah, I thought about that too, of what I mentioned before is sometimes I feel like we're a molecule or something. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh, maybe the earth is a molecule in a bigger Yes. Organism. It's so funny when you said it, I literally pictured, I was like, well, earth kind of looks like, yeah, yeah. And you like, keep, so, so another thing that we talk about in, in Eco Psy is that everything is in fractals. So it's like, if you, what does that mean? So, so like if you look at like the veins on a leaf or something, it, if you, it can mirror the shape of the larger tree, as a whole. Oh. And it's like, oh, we are all, if you keep going like deeper and deeper and deeper, you'll find similar patterns and similar shapes. And um, I was like, well, why can't we expand that out? Do you feel like there's, there's something in your life that is a pattern? Has Ecos psychology helped you to dissect a pattern in your own life? Yes. Good question. So that was actually one of the main things that we had to do, is we had to pick a narrative in ourselves that we felt like was harmful or destructive. And we really worked with it and we tried to get to a place where we can at least identify it and realize when it's showing up in our lives. And at best, I think like it takes, it's a lifetime of work, but to really manage and recognize how you react to that happening and be like, okay, well how can I manage my reaction so that this thing does not always trigger me and make me act out this way? Mm-hmm. So I was really getting into my narrative of perfectionism. And it's something that I'm still working on. You know, it's like I said, it's an ongoing thing. Yeah. But now at least I can recognize it and I can call it something and just, I know how I respond and how I feel when I respond. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's kind of just having grace with yourself also, but managing, is there an element of nature that you sort of used to explore your perfectionism? I mean, I think that's a really good question, by the way. Yeah. But I think that, I think like all of nature kind of touches on that. Mm-hmm. Because if you look, again, I talk about hummingbirds a lot because we have a lot of hummingbirds in my balcony. Um, but if you look at a hummingbird, you are like, that hummingbird is just being a hummingbird. It's just doing its thing. It's like going, you know, getting its food, it's making its nest, it's just doing its best and it's not. Overthinking things. It's not sitting there being like, oh, what are other people gonna think of me? It's like, no, I just, am I being a hummingbird enough? It's so true. Yeah. Yeah. It's like perfect in its wholeness. Mm-hmm. Well, it's like more in its trust I feel like, where it's like I'm trusting that if I live my life to my best capacity, then I will be doing what I am meant to do on this Earth. I just have to do it. I just have to, you know, I don't need anyone's approval or validation. Yeah. It's interesting. There's so much of the things that we do and worry about that are just like ingrained in this stuff from our past. I discovered something I, I'm trying not to say I had a realization'cause I'd be all, you could do a super cut. Our, how annoying. I'm so annoying. You can change the name, change the name of the podcast. I had a realization, but I've been doing this thing where this book I'm reading called, oh My God, code, the Extraordinary Life. I mean, I should be paid by that honestly. Not a paid, not a paid mock. Um, so he talks about how important forgiveness is of like anybody you have any resentfulness towards. Mm-hmm. And how that actually like raises your vibration and makes you more of a match for things you want. And, and I hadn't really reckoned with that. Like I thought there are people that I resent for big reasons and small reasons. Mm-hmm. Exes roommates, like. I, I released my, one of my acting teachers but I didn't realize it was like holding me back in any way. Mm-hmm. So I kind of combined his process with yoga, so during yoga practice now I, because also my yoga is like warm yoga, so you sweat a lot. So basically we had a guest on a couple times ago who was another acting student of mine, and we had the same manager when I was growing up. Oh, okay. And that manager, I had a really odd relationship with her and she's now passed away, and Julia, who we had on, is a medium. And she was like, Eileen told you hi. Eileen was the manager and it kind of brought this thing up for me. Yeah. She wasn't on my list of people that I was resentful of, but when she said that I was like, ah, yes. Because she would think I was talented and then she wouldn't like, she like liked me and then she would, it was just like a very confusing, first representative as an actor. Person to have. And then she passed away and I was like, I feel like I have all these weird feelings about this. And I hadn't talked to her in years and, and didn't end badly. But it, it, it, like, it just affected me, like as an artist. Yeah. Mm-hmm. To have your first person, she was on your list, but obviously it came up, you know, it wasn't actively in your mind. Mm-hmm. Yes. At the, at the time, you know. Right. Or, or currently. Right. But, so I've done some work, so his whole process is like, you think about what happened, you feel the feelings for three minutes and for her, when I did this in yoga, it was like a lot of shame. Like she made me feel very ashamed of wanting her to think I was good. I felt ashamed of, I felt ashamed of like not being good enough. Just I, it was just very shame based, was the feeling that I had. And then you kind try to have compassion for them of. Why that could have come up and she had a daughter and did I remind her? And just even if you're just kind of giving them reasons, just even just making up, making up. Yeah. With my acting teacher, I was like, maybe his mom was going through a really hard time and that was why, you know, whatever, right? Mm-hmm. So you do that and then for me, what I've added on is what did I learn from that experience and how have I grown? And during that part, yoga, I realized that I have a thing with mid forties women with dark hair. Oh my gosh. Who are really strong because mm-hmm. Anytime I've come across a woman who in her mid forties with dark hair who's really strong at it, is like a really kind of tough. Vibe. I feel like they instantly don't like me. I feel instantly uncomfortable and I realized this, I was like, oh my God, it's because of Eileen. Wow. I was talking to my husband about it because it happened, I don't even remember when, like somebody, we, I don't know, some stumbled upon. I was like, no. I can tell she doesn't like me. He was like, I didn't get that vibe, but it's my own stuff. It's like your inner critic almost. I wonder if you've like assigned her as that role. That's really smart. I think I did. I think it was the first person that I really felt, at least acting wise, that I really felt was very sort of wishy-washy about my ability, you know? Oh, yeah. And, in a way, I think now it's made me really grateful for the reps that I have who I know, believe in me so hard and maybe without that experience I wouldn't have this like, gratitude for them. Yeah. But yeah, I, I kind of realized that yeah, I think I would've spent the rest of my life just being like mid forties women with dog hair. So weird. We apologize to those listening. I'm really excited. Oh, come at me because I really wanna meet another, I can't wait to meet the next mid forties when with dark hair, with a tough vibe and see if I feel like, okay, we, like raised to whatever it was there. Mm-hmm. There must be so many of those things in a life, you know? Yeah. There, there's gotta be so many of those things that I just haven't uncovered yet. Yeah. And that's the other thing. I feel like all of us would aspire to be the perfect parents, or even that, and it's like, that's, it's completely impossible. Yeah. There's no way when I think about like, little things that I remember from growing up mm-hmm. And like. That was such a throwaway comment. They weren't even probably, you know, they weren't even probably thinking about that. But as a child, it stuck in my head for some reason. And it's like everyone is gonna have those things and you kind of just have to understand that to a certain extent. I feel like, yeah, that's a really hard part about being a parent, but I have been crying about because you're right, I try my best, but yeah, like it's, and you know what, it's not even gonna be the thing that I've worked so hard, like if I lose it with them. And we apologized and had this whole conversation and I'm like, oh, are they gonna remember that? No, it me that, yeah. It's gonna be when I'm in the car and I'm like, that frog is yellow and they think it's green. You know, 25 years later they're on a podcast. But the thing is I need to keep in mind too, is that I do feel like a lot of us, and like I know just from listening to your podcast, that like, you're doing the work on your end, so it's going to be better. And it's like, like I said, I don't think anything will ever be perfect, but the hope is it's going to be better. Right. And I believe that, and I think we all have to believe that and to live intentionally. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's what it goes back to is like, there's so many unknowns, there's so many things that we affect that we don't even realize. Right? Yeah. And I think, I don't know, I, I really love that. And I think that gives me solace too, to remind myself like, as long as I try my best, as long as I. Stay open and stay educated and explore and realize that there's so much more to, to it and take that in strides. Mm-hmm. It's all gonna be okay. Yeah. That's kind of all you can do is like, all you can do is really live well, like mm-hmm. Like live to the best of your ability. And I think ultimately you will inspire other people and the hope is, again, that you can add them to the garden and like grow it, you know? Yeah. Do you ever, do you guys ever get overwhelmed by just like they enormity of it all? I think for me, I like that overwhelming feeling. It like, like feeling, right? It comes back to you. It's going back, coming back to me. Cool. With just not knowing it's kind. But I think there is in, in, you can flip it like there's this, like, it's a hands off, but it, it's. Yeah. It makes me, reminds me that I'm part of something so big and beautiful. Mm. And complex. Do you feel ever overwhelmed by the enormity of like, your journey to like self discovery? No. What about you? What about, yeah. What about for the love of God? I, if it's overwhelmed though, I think it's just, I think it's a cool, I think it's fun to discover. Mm-hmm. I think it, yeah. It's almost like, it's like looking at it from like a landscape view to be like, okay. Like it is, to me, it's more orienting to be like, I'm here, this is where I am. Okay. And I feel like it's hard to, at least for me, it's really hard to pinpoint that and get that. If I don't have anything to be in relationship with, because it's like, if I am just existing here by myself, then yes, I probably would have really, really lofty goals. And, you know, I'd feel bad if I didn't hit my own deadlines. But it's like, if I really think about it, it's like, okay, realistically where am I? What are all the things that I'm dealing with every day, working with every day? And where do I wanna be with all of this in mind? And I feel like it, it kind of gives me a little bit more of a viewpoint or like at the threshold to be like, maybe I'm not at the top of the mountain yet, but it's like, I'm here. I'm like made it to a quarter way through. And like there's really nice flowers to look at along the way. And it's like, I'm just gonna stop here for a second and look at these flowers and I, and I feel like, you know, I'll get there. It's, I'm just making my way with as much love and intention as I can. Mm-hmm. And there's that like, again, that trust of like. I'll get where I need to go. Yeah. Do you feel that your life is predestined in some way? No. Do you feel it's all free will? Um, no. Okay. I feel like there are pushes and pulls mm-hmm. That we, again, that we all kind of live with, that shape us into the people that we are. Um, so it, I don't think it's free will.'cause to me, that feels like you have agency over everything and I don't think that we do. Mm-hmm. Okay. And it's more of like, we are, it's almost like a tide again with the ecos psychology, it's like a tie. But that's, that's, that makes so much sense. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like guiding, it's like kind of a guiding force. You can swim against it, you know, if you're like, no, I do not like it here. You can always move. But I think if you're open, like you said, Olivia, like you're open, you're listening, you'll get. Little signs, you'll get little like, oh, I'm feeling uncomfortable in my body in this situation. Like, maybe I shouldn't put myself in this situation anymore. So I feel like there's free will. I don't think your path is kind of laid out for you, but I do feel like there are always things that work around you that are kind of like part of your journey. Mm-hmm. That's interesting when you say that. I had, I had another realization today, guys. Yeah, sure. Please. I just, I love your realizations. Well, listen, you just, you're very, you're wonderful. Like I could talk to you about, I feel like that's why I'm, because I just feel like I, I want you guidance really, but like, okay. Tell me if this is little or not. She's a doctor, so I have this whiteboard in my room. Mm-hmm. And I haven't cleaned it since my youngest daughter was born, who's now four. And so do, was stuck on, and I had this whole kind of. I'm not like in a bad place, but I feel like this cyclical nature of my mental state with my career is like frustrating to me. Yeah. Because I had this whole thread, you, Elizabeth, again, I had that thread of the death and then I cut the thread of the death. Right. And now like we're, and like we're on in real time here. Like this is like, you know, when this airs, this is like three months of the future. Yeah. Like what this moment is. But like this moment is I cut the thread down and I thought it was gonna be great and then, but like, I'm still worried. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like I, I, I don't wanna be, but I am like I know what's gonna happen for me. Yeah. But I now, I don't know when and now like that's what is focusing on and whatever. Okay. Mm-hmm. I met with my friend Glen. Hi Glen. He's the podcaster. Hi Glen. And he's very spiritual and wonderful and into manifestation and stuff. And he was like, and I had this thing we were repeating of like, if it's not gonna happen until I'm 65, then I'd rather know now so that I can do something else and not stress myself out. And he was like. By you saying it's not gonna happen until you're 65. You are like making that come true for yourself. Mm. So, okay. So I had the whole okay. Reckoning. Then I realized on my whiteboard it said, it said this and I had to rub it off with alcohol. It said, if it happens in a real way before you're 40, you've been struck by lightning. Weight it out. So then I was like, wait, I'm creating like for my career. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like if, if I were to pop off before I'm, which I wrote to make myself feel better at that time. Mm-hmm. I'm sure. Right? Because it's hard and confusing. Mm-hmm. But I was basically putting that out. And then right next to it is about meditation. It said be still and know is what it said. Okay. So I'm erasing the white works and then I take the kids to swim and we come back and my neighbor comes out with a shirt and the shirt says, be still. And No. What? What is that? Not crow. Whoa. Yeah. Did you talk to them? No, no, I didn't talk to her because I have a, yeah, I didn't, it was a whole other podcast, but she, like, body shamed me one time and, oh, was she dark hair? Mid forties? I think she's a little bit older that, but, um, just got dark hair, but yeah. Um, okay. Isn't that weird? But, but yeah. So you like, but you were there, like, you, you were open to that. You were, I don't wanna say looking for it, but you were receive, you were in a receiving place. Mm-hmm. Because probab, I mean, I don't know, but I'm assuming that if it was like another day and you were like doing all this stuff and running around you pro you might have not given it a second thought. Yeah. But like, you were in it, you were there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that stuff really makes me be like, there's something at work. Mm-hmm. Like, I can't understand how that, and like, that, there's so many examples of that, so what do you think that was at work with? It was like saying like, no, be more present. Was was that. Ultimately what you are taking from this or I think I'm taking from it that I'm on the right track, first of all with try with eliminating the sort of language of me saying it's not gonna happen until this, it's not gonna happen until that, yeah. It's not gonna happen until this. And also like those two sides of my whiteboard were two different ideas. Like one was meditate and be still and no, and trust the timing and like all the stuff that we talk about. And the other side was like, you know, it's not gonna happen for a long time. It's not gonna happen for a long time. It was that like, it was like one was taking it in and one was pushing it out, I think. And to me it says take it in, you know? Yeah. Well it sounds like, yeah, one side to me sounds like you're managing your expectations. Yes. To be like, oh, you know, you might get hurt, but like there's fear in that. And I feel like when I hear you talk about the other side, it's more of how I kind of view being an artist where it's like you, if you love to do it, if it's like what you're called to do, then you have to. Just do it. Like you do it for that, and then, then it's like, be still and know that it will come to you if you're, again, like, it's kind of like living Well, it's like if you mm-hmm. It's like what we did with our play. I was, we were just still, I was just about to bring that up. Yeah, you can. Oh yeah. No. Yeah. It's like, I feel like we were talking about, it coincided with us realizing we have been friends for 20 years and we've been always creative together. Obviously, you know, I'm dance. Yeah. We bring it back and, uh, it's just, uh, we've, you've been in my safe place to do that. And I wanted to act. You wanted to direct. Mm-hmm. And you were like, I been wanting do this play since college. And we're like, okay. The play was fantastic, by the way. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. It was, yes, but we just like, we just. Did it. You just did it. And, and I feel like that's something that's why I've been struggling with, with, with my perfectionism narrative is because where I find it hinders me the most is I am afraid to sometimes start creative projects because I'm like, oh. Even with the play, I was like, oh my God, what am I doing? And like, it was not easy, but it was, again, it was just kind of that thing where it's like, we're doing this because we want to. Yeah. So it kind of takes a lot of that, what am I gonna get back from this out of it? And it's like, no, we just really wanna do this. Yeah. We're already getting it. Yeah. By doing it. Exactly. You, you're already receiving in the doing. It's like, again, to to, we did this junior miss competition. Oh my gosh. Yes. We were in pageant. Oh my gosh. It was a pageant. Yeah. The two of us. I mean, I Wow. The prize was a scholarship. Yes. So I think that's why both of our families were like, you should do it. But, but you had to do all the little things and there was a talent section and afterwards. Us two were like, oh my God, cool. Like that was, and then they were like, oh, we have to do the judging. And we're like, what? Yes. We're like, wait, this. Oh, I totally forgot that there's like awards. We were just doing it for fun. Yeah, we just did it for fun. Do you believe in separate universes? That's a good question. Um, I don't not believe in them. Okay. Yeah. I feel like I don't have enough. I don't know. I don't know enough. I think it's interesting to think about I always think about like all of the different choices I could have made all and like how I would've been, so even if it's not my choice mm-hmm. The choices my parents could have made where we moved or we didn't move, and how vastly different of a person I might have become. Mm-hmm. I'm like, it would be interesting to think of myself as that other person somewhere. Yeah. Totally. But what about reincarnation? Because I feel like I tie reincarnation to nature in some way in my head. Yeah. Um, so, and also reincarnation is a very Hindu thought. Mm-hmm. Um, I do in some way believe in reincarnation or I guess in a couple ways. So one of my favorites is that this idea, this um, concept that you are, when you're reborn, you have similar souls that are reborn with you and they can show up as different people. So it's kind of like the idea of soulmates, but it's like they can show up as different people in your life. It could be like your mother in one life, your best friend in another life. Mm-hmm. But it's like these group of souls. Yeah. But we travel together. Yeah. Or it's like the same people keep showing up in your life and play different roles, and you're like a group I love that idea because I do feel like there's people that I've met where it's like, you're very familiar. Mm-hmm. You know, you have that instant familiarity with someone, or you're like, this is, you know, it just, it feels, it feels like normal. Mm-hmm. Or, there's just like that kind of knowing of each other. So that's one that I really kind of do feel, and it's not everybody, it's just like, it's like a handful of people who kind of come with you. And then I also think about this idea. I remember when my, my, um, partner's grandfather passed, um, he kind of asked me this question. Mm. And I was, I remember thinking in that moment where I was like, I feel like it's kind of like the ocean where you, it's like a drop in the ocean where it's like it's still there. Mm-hmm. But it, you can't like identify it. So it's like if someone, if someone passes, it's like their energy is still there. That's kind of how I think of it. Yeah. But it's not that in that form, basically. Right. So in those ways I kind of do feel, I think I do believe in reincarnation. Do you think that a soul has qualities? Like what does it, what comprises of a soul? I don't know. That's a really good question. I feel like that is, I, I think I'm gonna defer to my grandfather on this and say God is consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if you're, if you're a conscious being, then that's kind of your defining trait. Hmm. But so the interesting thing, which to me it feels like we've known this for a long time, but, but is now you hear all of this science and stuff where it's like trees have consciousness and all this stuff, and it's like. To me, I'm kind of like, Yeah. Yeah. You didn't feel that before, but now in our world if it's not proven by Western science, it's not real. But, now it is being proven by western science in ways that like plants communicate. You know? They, um, even if it's just to like, tell others that this predator is coming and like release this toxin into your leaves so that they can't eat you type of communication. Yeah. Which is amazing. Mm-hmm. It's so cool. But, so, yeah, so it's like this idea, it's like, okay, well trees have consciousness. How many things have consciousness consciousness and soul in that like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So'cause in, because in Hinduism you can be reincarnated as an animal and, and all of this, and. I, that's something that I also grew up with those stories of mm-hmm. Of like Hindu myths, a lot of them. And not just in Hinduism. I, I just, my, um, knowledge is limited for other cultures, but I, I believe even in like Greek mythology and stuff, like God's came back as animals. Mm-hmm. And I think that was another thing that I always learned growing up. And it was kind of that like, be nice to animals.'cause you never know if it's a god interesting it's coming back, you know? That's how I was. Siri. I'm really nice to Siri. Yeah. That's scary. Is gonna take over. Oh, Siri. Yeah. You gotta be real nice. Yeah. That's interesting. Um, if you could come back as an animal. Yeah. Good question. But would you be a cat? Yeah. Yes. I thought you were gonna say wolf. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I love wolves. They do not have it. Good though. Easy. You wanna be Merlin hanging out. I wanna be Merlin. She has a cat named Merlin. I look at him every day and I'm like, oh God, I wish I could be as comfortable as you are all the time. Shout out to Merlin. We love you Olivia. Let's say what I think you would be and you say what you think you would be at the same time. All three. Okay. Wait me? Yeah. What animal you think you would reincarnate as? And I'm gonna say what I think you also would be. Oh, okay. Okay. Ready? Okay. 1, 2, 3. Ot, Platypus Otter. I just wanted to think about a pot. Uh, Platy puss is, it's not Platy pie. It's Platy puss, by the way. Okay. Alright. I just learned this, but it's actually pretty close. I love them. They're so cute. Ter. Yeah, otter's cute. Okay. What about you? Okay, wait, hold on. I gotta think about my answer. God, that's really hard. Oh my God. I don't know. I don't know. I feel overwhelmed. I think I know mine. Mm-hmm. It's, it came off and I don't even know, I, I, I'll explain it when I figure it out, but I had an image. Okay. I have an image. Yeah. Okay. It's not exactly right, but, okay. I'll go. Ready? 1, 2, 3. Robin. Oh, Robin, this Robin. I, I thought it was some kind of bird too, but I, I also don't know you that well, but that's what I got. I got bird. Yeah. Interesting. I got bird. Yeah, I got you. I, I saw you as like a bird just flying. Yeah. Like that's what I Yeah, that's, I dunno what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I love that. Oh yeah. All right. Well, is there anything you wanna plug? Anything you want to endorse? So, I have been hatching a little plan, um, hibernating on it over the winter, and I feel like it's finally ready to emerge to spring. Yeah. Pop out of the ground and sprout. Um, I am. Uh, trying. I'm going to start, um, hosting like an eco psychology kind of group sessions in the park, um, by my house in Sherman Oaks. And I, um, would love to have people join. I wanna start this as more of a, a informative, but also like group session where people can ask questions and share thoughts and share dreams and ideas and all of this. Um, really just my biggest goal here is building connection and relationality in our community and finding ways that we could do that. So if anybody's interested, um, I am, I'm interested. I will let the wonderful host of this podcast know when it comes a little bit more into fruition. Um, but would love to have you, and I would love to get all of your perspectives because I feel like learning from you all and hearing what you've all been through as well just makes me grow. So that sounds amazing. Yeah. I'm so in. You're fantastic. I know. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. I know. I'm like in awe of you kind of. I put my notebook down. This is so wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, we need to decide. Oh yeah. I have a practice. Okay. Yes, guys. Okay. Thank you. I have a practice. This was one thing I did think about. Okay. I'm picking up my notebook. Pick up your notebook. Pick up your notebook. Okay. So my practice, and this doesn't have to be, I don't think it has to be consistent, um, but if it makes it easier to remember, I'd say once every two days or so. Okay. Um, but I think it, I think it, my practice is to look at something outside of you and kind of think about that critter that being's life. Hmm. And, and if you don't know. I think feel it out. Like if you, if you can kind of hypothesize based on what you do know, do that if you feel so inclined. Sometimes it's cool to look it up. Yeah. And be like, I had no idea about that. Even if it's very short, very small thing. But it kind of, to me, it helps you learn about some someone else and be like, okay, how do, how do we relate? But an animal of a sort, it can be an animal, it can be a plant. Okay. Mm-hmm. It can be the food that you're eating. Oh, the clover, the food. Ooh. Yeah. So it can be, that's also a good one. So if you like are eating a vegetable or a fruit or something, you can think about that and be like, what stage of this life of this plan's lifecycle is it in? Even something like that. I love that. That's not great. And now everything I eat, it's such a, it's such a good microcosm for looking outside yourself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, like, it, it, it really, you really grounded the idea of looking outside yourself. Like the stars is to me, the opposite of the orange. You know what I mean? But I didn't think about the orange, so thanks. You know, think about the orange. You know? I love that. Think about the orange. Okay. I love that. That's great homework. Yay. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to SPO Oda. Until next time, be safe, right? Be sane. Sane, be safe. Okay, let's try it. One, we can be safe too. They can, they can be interchangeable actually. Okay. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Although I really like live well, but that's kind. I feel like you can no take, I mean, take it. Beane live. Well, love it. Love it. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much for listening. Spo Oda Beane and Live. Well.