"I believe in chaos and magic": Actor, Voice Over Artist, Spin Instructor, and Thinker Kristina Mueller

The episode kicks off with Olivia and Ari discussing Jeff D'Elia's spiritual practice from the last episode of creating a playlist to get back in touch with your inner teenager. Amidst many giggles (and Olivia's KICKASS impression of Tom DeLonge), they discover they have a song in common on their playlists (magick!). We curtail, seamlessly of course, into a discussion of if you can divorce the art from the artist.

Our guest, Kristina Mueller, discusses her life over the past few months and how it has informed her belief in her chaos theory (Kristina's Kaos Theory). She also discusses making decisions from her body and not her mind, and how overthinking has held her back.

*A note: the audio in the interview is great for our guest, but very poor for Olivia and Ari. We're sorry about that, we had a technical issue, but the next one will be better!

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Follow Kristina @itsmemueller

Beautiful music by Doug Harvey

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Thank you so much!

Transcript

0:16

Hello to you people in the world. Let's come back to, we talk about spirituality. We honestly can't help ourselves. Okay? Welcome to Spiritual Practices of the Disgruntled Artist, where we interview a new artist each episode to learn how they are keeping themselves sane and spiritually healthy. During this. Epically challenging time to be an artist. Yes. And then each episode we take one of the practices, one of our guest, uh, uses and we implement it for the next two weeks. And then at the beginning of the episode, we talk about how, how it went with the last practice we did with the challenges. Yeah. The last practice. So last practice we had Jeff. Yep. Uh, and it was, uh, creating a playlist. A music playlist, obviously. Yeah. Uh, that, the way I interpret it was like kind of. Reunited your, like past your like childhood self. Yeah. Teenage self. Like captured your youth. Captured your youth. Yeah. Um, yeah. As kind of a touchstone of like remembering who you were. Yeah. Yeah. And in like, going back to that, um, I had so much fun. You did? I had so much and I'm, it's, it's building. It's building my playlist Cannot stop. It cannot stop this. I called it inner child spoa. Okay. Yes. Love that. Um. Yeah. Do you wanna share, just share some, you have like five hours worth of song I have, but can you share some of the, the songs that you were maybe surprised by? Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. Let me go through. Um, here's the thing. I'm, I'm a very nostalgic listener, so a lot of these, that's what I was gonna talk about. Yeah. Uh, I feel like a lot of these songs I listen to currently. Okay. But as I was going through, I noticed that I was pulling from. Like, oh, this is like, as early as I can remember, kind of, obviously a lot of Disney was involved. Mm-hmm. Uh, musicals was a big part. Um, yeah, you had a lot of musical on Broadway, like Fandom of the Opera, like I listened to when I was five. So that, I gotta tell you, I saw it on Broadway and I didn't like it. You can leave. No, it's totally understandable. A lot of people don't love it. It, I, I was five years old. We had a cassette. I had a cassette of it. Yeah. And I didn't know what was going on, but I just knew that when the phantoms like sung, I felt some kind of way, like sexy. Well I didn't realize that until high school. And then I saw the movie Sexy and it was a sexual awakening. Oh. So the fan opera is like covers multitudes of my who I am today. I love this discovery. Okay. So obviously Phantom was on there. Yep. Um. Uh, one thing I like completely forgot is like I was a big Enya person. Oh yeah. I, I noticed that I had a lot of Enya. That's because I would be in my room. I would have cool lights and incense and I'd just sit and stretch. Wow, that's so meditative. It was very meditative. Totally sense. I was very bored. Yeah, that's very, but like, that's what I thought about is like those, those things. We had one song that was on both of ours. Did, did you catch that? No. I miss you by Blink 180 2 because that song. Yeah, I miss you. I miss, where are you? Oh good. Oh God. That was surprising and very, very good. I had to tell you. Everyone loves that song. Yeah, it's so good. I loved that we had a cross, everyone. I was like, Ugh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well we, oh, I was supposed to say what? Yeah, what surprised me. I think there weren't like major surprises, but like, um, oh no. You know what? No, I'll say, I'll say like, I had of course a lot of theater and then when I like went into like more of, um. High school. Mm-hmm. I, I realized as I was like remembering all these things, I could be like, oh, I was this age. Oh, I was this age. Like, I kind of like placed like, yeah, what isn't it, what age? Olivia isn't so fun. Music has such a strong memory. Yeah. Oh, when actually, I showed this to Courtney, who's here this weekend. Mm-hmm. And I was like, Lauren, listen to my playlist. And, and there was hook of songs where she like, were in the car and I played it and I think like, yeah, like Blinko two or just like, I had a Paramore song and she like sat back in the seat, like, I've been just transported so quickly to a certain time. Totally. Totally. Um, it's crazy. It is really insane. Yeah. But I have this song called Dream by Priscilla Anne and. Is really pretty Song. Oh, that's a beautiful song. Tit. It's not that one. Okay. Um, it's, you should listen to it. Okay. You should listen to it. But I've noticed there was a lot of like spiritual, like Yeah. That one. Like it informed your future self kind of. Yeah. Um, there was a song by Jason Mraz, lucky and I. I remember putting that on. And I think this, this one surprised me in a way.'cause I was just like, I reme. I didn't think about it until now. But the song Lucky, um, lucky I'm in love with my best friend. Yes. Lucky to love that song. I, that whole cd I could have put that on there. Um. I was like, that's what love is like. I remember being like, I remember so distinctly being like, this is the love I want. Yeah. Is this song, and now you, you now you have that. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Nice. So I think, yeah, there's, there's surprises in that of like, oh yeah, like that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Like reflecting on it, but yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That's so fun. Yeah, it was fun. I felt like mostly I felt like, what is nostalgia? That's what I walked away from this practice thinking because I was like, I feel sad, but like not sad, like I feel sad adjacent. Mm-hmm. Also, because like a lot of mine were pretty sad. Like I went through a big Damien Rice. Yeah. I've heard of'em. The blower yeah. Yeah. That and like kind of Punkish, like, I don't know if that's punk, like commercialized, punk, maybe Ocean Dashboard and Whoa, I had Beatles too. You had Blackbird. Oh well Blackbird. So that one I guess surprised me a little bit because that song that Blackbird saying that's like, okay, so my college boyfriend, what got us together was we did this student film together. And in the student film, it was like, I'm trying to remember the whole premise. It was like he was having a conversation with me, but I had died. Okay. And so like the last scene was like, I was on a carpet and they like, it was funny, but they like, they like drag you off, dragged me away, like off screen. It was like a ba like at the time it was like pretty innovative I think for, I love that. But when we watched finally that, like the song Blackbird was like, what was happening? Okay. When you kind of realized that like, I had died and like, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I always associated that with my college boyfriend. Yeah. I have it. And like even though I kind of left, as I told you, I did the forgiveness practice, I have forgiven him. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'm truly left. That I still, if I hear that song mm-hmm. Like that. Yeah. That feels like, you know how we talk about like the healed over part? Yeah. Like that's something that's underneath the healed over part. Yeah. Yeah. Where that song. You always remind you. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. I had, I had, I, I had one that remind me of Grant. I, a lot of these songs, I was like, oh, this is, I associate it with this person. Yeah. And I think that's what like the sadness comes in.'cause it's like time, different times in places that like may still be in your life or like, yeah, not, um, but it also made me be like my, I think I'm the happiest I've ever been now. You know? Yeah. Like my teen, like going through this, and then I would be reminded, oh yeah. Like, oh yeah, this song. And they're all pretty much. Sad. I don't honestly like most of them, you know what I mean? I think even though I, I am like in general a happy person, I think like my, my teenage years and college and stuff, yeah. There was like a lot of angst, you know what I mean? Yeah. That like, I kind of realized in doing this exercise like, hey, like I'm not actually like, even though there are moments, I'm overall in a healthy relationship. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I think I'm the happiest I've ever been. Also one. Someone like you. I mean that Adele, I just, yes. Yeah. That was like not associated with a, with um, a person kind of, but it was really just, I remember my friend pulling me outside of a bar and being like, you need to listen to the song right now. Put in your phone in my ear. And I was like, this singer is incredible. Like, it was the first time I'd heard her and I was just like, so in awe of her artistry and the songwriting of it. That was one, it was about the artist, not about love person. I, I was like, oh my God. Like people are magical. She's a magical being to write that song and sing it like that. What a good song. It's a great song. I mean, it's like, it's a perfect song. That'd be great. Um. Karaoke song. Oh, I don't do karaoke, but enjoy any either if you do karaoke either. We got some, I got some songs. Yeah. Um, I also had a co a couple that like, I performed like, oh, there's a song, it's like a, a Bollywood song that I performed with the Newie. Oh. Uh, called Be A Passion. And I was like, oh, I have to, that's fun. Um. Yeah. Do you feel like, what from this practice will you take away? Like, will you listen to these again to get yourself into a place or, um, yeah. I, I think so. I think there is something of, like, I don't, I don't know how I'll use it, but I think I will. Have it in my back pocket just to enjoy and like I do like going, I do like being nostalgic. I like you do See, I do, I think, I don't like being nostalgic. No. I feel I left it being like, this was a ni a good practice and I'm glad that I did it, but I will not be, you're not revisiting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I don't, I just think I don't, I don't wanna like live back there. What kind of music do you listen to now? Oh, well now I listen to a lot of Rafi. I dunno if you've heard of Children's, children's music. That's good. As soon as I asked that, I was like, wait, I know this answer. Actually, it's like a, a threat that I have with my kids.'cause if they start screaming in the car, I say, okay, I'm gonna turn my songs on instead of your songs. So that works about. 42% of the time you should introduce him to fan of the opera. See if that does informs any of them. Musical. But, but I mean, I have like my, my curated Pandora station, which is like Lizzo themed. I know she's like a little canceled. Sorry, but is she? Oh yeah, because the dancer thing. Okay. Yeah. Can you separate. Artists and the person. Oh boy. I actually do think everybody's gonna have a moment of being canceled in their career. Like, I think it's coming for us. You know what I mean? I don't know in what way because I don't know what I have will or have it done, but, I think the other day is like, we're good people. You know, we, we don't have anything to worry about. Well, we might, but not like, I mean, not intentionally. Yeah, not intentionally, but somebody could pull up a clip of our, that out of context that makes it sound like, who knows? So I don't know. I mean, I just, I don't think it's gonna stop me from doing what I wanna do and Oh, I think you can't think I just, the more I, and maybe maybe the cancel culture will like end though. I think like, I don't know. It's tough'cause Right. Some people, I mean, they do need to be held humble. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I think. That's a good point. Some the people that need to be held accountable will be hopefully, right? Mm-hmm. Actually, that's a good point too, is like we need more, actually, we need more people to be held. Accountability on accountability. Yeah. Um, in that, yeah. I don't mind. I, I think a lot of it is too is like checking yourself and your privilege and what you're saying, and a lot of times that like. I feel like that's the intersection of what people say and mm-hmm. When they said it. I just, I, I think at the end of the day, you just be a good person, do your best, and then like, if things do come outta context or anything like that, like you said, stay calm, you know, like, apologize, I think. Yeah. There's no reason to wor, there's no reason to worry over something that like you don't know what's gonna, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking about how like the, the question of can you divorce the art from the artist? I think the more that social media becomes a big part of this, the less that is true. And I mean, SNL just cast another Instagram influencer on their next season. I actually happen to think she's like very funny. I think I know who you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that they cast her for her. Person. I mean her, I'm sure that's not her actual personality. It's like the amped up Instagram version of her personality and her comedy on that. But like, yeah, that's like the more of that continues to be the case, the more like the artist is the art, you know? Well, folks, we have a great episode for you. We have a great episode. We're gonna talk about a chaos theory. Mm-hmm. I liked the chaos theory. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Without getting too much away. Yeah. In the beginning. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. I think you'll have a fun time. Well, listen, don't cancel us. Please do not, um, pull out close. Oh, no they won't. Not just to, uh, ruin our curtain. No, but do make a playlist. I actually will say yes. Like this was really fun. Yeah, it was fun. And yeah. Make a playlist. Email it to us. Oh my God. Yes. It's spoda.contact@gmail.com. We wanna hear about your, about your songs. Yeah. Or just shot us out on Instagram. Yeah. We know you're on it, girls. We know you're on it. And listen, if you like us, if you're listening to this and you're like, wow, they're really delightful and funny and nice, go ahead and just send this episode to somebody or leave us a, a little five star. A little five star. Yeah. Or a little review. You could just say, wow, they're fun. Wow. Wow. There we go. I wrote your review. Wow. They're fun. That's all you gotta say. Yeah. Yep. All right. Majority of us whole. I just wanted to add a quick note that though the audio for the intro was fantastic. As you just heard, the audio for the interview is not great. Our guest sounds great, but me and Olivia sound not great due to audio reasons. So with Sare, we hope you still enjoy it. Okay, bye. Hello. Hello. We got a guest for you today. Her name's Kristina Mueller with a K. She's an actor. She's a voiceover artist. She's a writer. She's a spin instructor and she wearing a really cool Wishbone t-shirt. Oh, thank you. She's got great hair. Yes. What else do you need? End of episode. End episode. Thank you for listening. Thank you be saying. Yes. Well, welcome. Welcome. Thank you. We've been starting these off with, um, yes. Three deep breaths. Yes. Or or pulling a apart. Or both. Or both. Let's do both. Okay. Okay, great. I think we should start with the breaths.'cause then me too, I'm nervous. Breathe, shuffle. Yeah. Okay. Because then what happens is people say both and then we pull a apart and then we forget to do the breath. We've done that so many times. Yeah. We're so sorry for those people. We've done it too. We're so, you can take this deep breath with us. We're sorry. We're so sorry. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Okay. We're gonna breathe. You know what's weird? Like that feels nice. The first breath always feels dumb to me. The second one feels smart and the third one feels good. Oh, how was the first breath? Dumb? Because I just feel dumb. Like, I feel like theater school. Dumb. Oh yeah, it does. It feels theatery. Then the second one, I think, no, no, it's actually good. It, it is actually smart. And then the third one, I think this is good. Yeah, I love that. Do you mind, I was trying not to laugh. Do you mind spliting the deck for me? Yes. I mean, I don't mind. And then take that top card. Oh, and that's your card. Oh. The eight of wands. Ooh. That's okay. There's a dragon. There's a dragon. I, I just pulled this card the other day. You did, you did. Yes. This is crazy. Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. This is the one that you got. Oh my god. Okay, okay. Okay. Wait, that's crazy. Let me find it. He looks like a mad elf. He's like a little bit angry. And this, well, okay, I'll tell on after. Let read that. I'll tell, fine. I wanna read it because I know that it's a very short description, but this is it. Um, so like the, yeah, the description is, it is like a fairy guy on a dragon and there's like a eight arrows being shot up and it looks like he's like in battle also. Randomly. Bubbles. Yeah. Some bubbles. Oh yeah. He looks pretty mad. He's, yeah. So, but here's the message. The message of this card is very simple. Events are moving very quickly. Oh. You are compelled to act almost without thinking. You must go along with your gut feeling and trust that it is the right choice. Ooh, that's good. I like that. Is that, does it, does it mean, is there any Uh, I just think I, I, I, over the last several years, like have been trying to get better at that. Okay. I think for a long time I didn't really follow my gut L Really? Oh, okay. Yeah. ike there's a lot of situations where like when I look back on them I'm like, oh yeah, my body knew and still I did something else.'cause I thought about it for too long and then I talked myself into not doing the other thing or doing something else that my body was saying. Yeah. Are you like a thinker or? I'm very thinky. Yeah. Are you thinking of an example when you say that? Um. It, the answer gonna be No. It just seemed like you were maybe, well, one that came up is I, I had a difficult friend breakup. Okay. And I knew this person for a long time and was never friends with them. Really? Yeah. Like not very close friends with them. And then suddenly became very close friends with them. So when I think about it, and it ended kind of not well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so when I think about it, I'm like, oh yeah, like before that I knew that they weren't for me. You know? Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. But then sometimes you're like in a vulnerable place, right. And then you act differently than you would if you were in a healthy, like, grounded place. Mm-hmm. But I think you're always probably more grounded when you are listening to your gut, your body, your gut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than your thoughts. Yeah. Because your thoughts are made up. I think your thoughts are made up. Yeah. Your bodies. Yeah. That's a good real, like your body's just existing truthfully. Yeah. Our bodies all the time. I think, you know? Yeah. Like our bodies are, I think when we think about like intuition, we don't think about the brain. Yeah. You know, we think about our hearts and our bo in like feeling it in our body. Yeah. So that makes sense. Yeah. I think it actually has nothing to do with your brain intuition. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Are you, you use your brain to interpret it, right? You know? But I think do, yeah. When you get like that feeling, do you think it's like, do you think it's like you have to interpret it or do you think your body also knows the meaning? Does that make sense? Like I, I think I'm asking like when you have a gut feeling. The process from like, okay, you're feeling something. Yeah. And then your brain is interpreting it, right? Like, do you think it is, like your body will also tell you if you listen in, in time, or do you think your mind takes over it? My making any sense at all? Yeah. I think, uh, like for you, I guess specifically is like, I think your body knows, I think your brain can misinterpret what it's saying. Okay. And then when you let your brain take over, that's when you, I think that's when I can look back and say like, oh, my, my, my thoughts were wrong about that. Mm-hmm. My body was actually saying this in terms of action. Like in terms of what step to take. Yeah. Because Olivia, so Olivia on Full Moon, is it Full Moon? Say you do this. Her name just happened. Yeah. Yeah. It was before. Sometimes I'll do like new moons as well. Okay. Yeah. But most of them are full moons. Yeah. To pulls, pulls some cards. Yeah. Yeah. Olivia always sends me and Kate at a, a picture of three cards and we pick one Yeah. With crystals on it. Mm-hmm. And then she flips it over so we can see. And this is the one I got and it encouraged me to do this kind of nuts. So like, uh, license plate sketch thing that I've started to do. Oh, wait, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just basically drop an insane license plates and bumper. Yeah. Because it was kind of like in my head and I got, and she sent me this card and I was like, I'm just gonna do it my thing. Yeah. Yeah. So are you talking about, you would, your body would say to take an action and your mind would say not to. Yeah. Or you think about it so much. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That then you end up talking yourself out of it. You're organiz it or like not, you're getting further away from what your body is trying to tell you, or your brain convinces you, like, it's important to think about it now. Mm-hmm. Before you do it. Before you do it. Right. And ultimately what happens with me is I'll think about it and think about it and think about it, and never do it and do it right. Got it. Okay. You know, it's not even that it's necessarily discouraging me from doing it, it's just like, well, I have to think about it first and make it perfect and exactly the way that it's supposed to be when I do it. Are you, are you an astrology person? Do you I I like it. You like it? I like it. I think it helps me sometimes become aware of things. Oh, okay. Okay. Like I, I What are you? Oh, I'm a a Scorpio sun. Oh, okay. Pisces Moon. Okay. Virgo Rising. I'm a Virgo. Rising Tale. Yeah. I'm a Virgo, period. Virgo The Sun. Yeah. It's just your Sun's side. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Okay, cool. Like I thought, uh, something that I thought was interesting is for most of my life, I, I was like, I'm a Scorpio. That's all I knew about. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, and anytime I ever said that to someone, they were like, Ooh, you're like, you're jealous. Or like, you're sexual. And then like, not that long ago, like in my thirties. I figured out, I found out about the rising sign and how the ri I'm, I don't know if I'm gonna say it right, but the rising sign is like what you present mm-hmm. To the outside world. Yeah. And I'm a Virgo and that makes way more sense. Yes. Yeah. Um, like very detail oriented, kind of like organized. Mm-hmm. Um. Mm-hmm. And there are things about Scorpio that I now know, that I really identify with. Yeah. Like, like I love getting to the bottom of things. And I am sexual, but I'm not like overtly sexual. Mm-hmm. Um, like, you know, we're all actors. Yeah. So like, I remember I had an agent who I, uh, was like, you know, she was kind of one of those agents who was like. I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, which in the beginning is great, right? If you're just trying to like, get, you know, in the room or whatever. But I had been with her for like almost two years and she was like, I think we need to, like, you need to get some shots where you look like gritty and sexy. Like what you would more, I'm looking at airy what air, what you would do. Like, more like you get like gritty, like kind of darker like shots, you know? And she was like, you need to get some sexy, gritty shots. But then, but then, and I took a workshop with some captain. When was so sorry for timeframe. When, when was this? This was 20 18. 19. Okay. And, So, so I, and so I was like, I could do that, but then you'll submit me for something and they'll be like, Ooh, this sexy person. And then I'll walk in like me and they'll be like, um, and then I did this workshop, uh, where the casting director was like, there's an agent and. They always, you know, submit people and then we call them in and they're nothing like their head shots, and it's a waste of everyone's time. And you were like, that's my agent, and it was my agent. It was, yeah, no, it was, it was. And I was like, yeah, she does that. Because like part of me is like, I get it. You're just trying to Yes. Help someone in the beginning of, you know, like, get out, get out, get out. Yeah. Yeah. But it is, it's like, and I don't, I think when I was younger, I would've thought like, well, that's putting myself down. I can be anything. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the reality is like, uh, when I walk in, I'm, I'm, yeah. You know, I'm, there's an essence, you know? Yeah. You know your essence. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think there's a difference too. I think like as actors, we wanna be as. Malleable. Is that the right word? Yeah. As possible. Sure. You know? Yeah. And you, and I think at this age, we all know our strengths and weaknesses. We know what we are and we know we can change. And we like that is part of our Yeah. You know, superpower. But also the older I've gotten or the longer I've been doing this, I'm like, I, I, I don't, I wanna play the parts that are my essence. Yeah. They're more fun for me. Right. I don't wanna play a sexy part. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Unless she's like really awkward. Right. And trying to be sexy. That's fun. That's a great, that would be a great role. I know. Do you have like an ideal role? Oh, good question. An ideal role? Um, or what essence, like maybe if we're talking in essence like is your, I like parts where they're like overly sincere, ruining things like in a funny way. Oh, you know, that's so specific, but I love that. I do love that. I'm trying to think of like what characters I like weirdly thought of. Um, like, kind of like try hards a little, like a try hard kind of. Oh, okay. Okay. Wait, what were you thinking? I was gonna say, uh, along, uh, parks and Rec, uh, what's his name? His character Andy. I have never watched Parks and Rec. My roommate's gonna laugh because she's always talking about it. Pratt, yeah. His character. Yes. And this is when I loved him. But he was more like dumb, lovable. Yes. But he didn't really try hard, so that, that's why I went, oh, nevermind. But like, I love to play a dumb lovable, but I've been told that I don't come across as very dumb that, that, that it's, oh, you're intelligent. Yeah, you're intelligent. Oh, you smart. Um, I wanna talk about your spiritual history. Okay. Your past Yeah. Spiritual self. Yeah. So, so we can take a train to your pet Yeah. Throughout your life. Yeah. Because you grew up in Germany. Two. Two, yes. Right. Where in Germany, Munich. Okay. Yeah. Well, I grew up half, I was born there. Okay. Moved to outside of Boston when I was two and a half, and then we moved back when I was 10. Oh, yes. Interesting. So I grew up half and half, basically. Wow. Were your parents religious? Sorry, I just jumped on you. No, no, no. You're good. My mom was raised Catholic. Mm-hmm. And my dad was not raised religious. Mm. And I was not raised religious. Okay. Yeah. So then we would, we, we did like Christmas and Easter and, mm-hmm. Okay. But like very. Did you go to church? Like for the presents and the, you know, yeah. For, okay. Yes. Easter basket. You know what I mean? You celebrated the, the chocolate, the holidays, but not on a religious level. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. So you didn't go to church with your mom or did your mom go to church? My mom, like every once in a while would go to church. Now she goes to church a lot more. She, oh, I think my mom believes in God, and I don't know if she identifies as Catholic still. Okay. Maybe she, my grandmother was, um, Protestant and my, so my mom's parents, my mom is German and my mom's parents, uh, her father was Catholic and her mother was Protestant, which are kind of the two main Christian denominations in Germany. And my grandfather basically made my grandmother become Catholic when they got married, which she resented. I like eventually found out. I don't think she had a very, I don't think they had a very happy marriage. But, um, yeah, because from my mom, what my mom described, like Catholicism as much more strict then Protestantism, but also Catholicism has like all the incredible art. Like, historically, like the churches are like insane. And the, you know, everything back in the day everybody was making art and music for God, you know? Yeah. And it was all very like, bombastic. And the Protestants were more stripped down. Yeah. Like Protestant churches are kind of bland. Okay. There's no, there's no angels, no like stained glass windows. No. Mm-hmm. Frescoes, you know, I mean, um, but. Okay. Anyway, that's kind of that side. Okay. I don't, I don't know, uh, that much religiously about my dad's side of the family, but my dad was not raised any sort of religion. Did he was like, god, a conversation ever or like anything mystical or they just wasn't touched. Yeah. Were they considered spiritual? I wouldn't describe my dad as spiritual. Okay. I don't think he, he doesn't believe in God and I wouldn't describe him as spiritual. Maybe he, maybe he, he considers himself spiritual now. More spiritual now. I don't know. Okay. I, um, my mom believes in God. Okay. And the only, like, we would go to church every now and again and we would light a candle for someone. Okay. Okay. That was like the one kind of Okay. Mm-hmm. Churchy religious thing. My mom and I did. Do you believe in God? No. Okay. No. Do you believe in any kind of higher power? Uh, it's also okay if the answer that word. Yeah. That's okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no. I think I believe in chaos. Okay. Chaos, magic. Okay. I believe in chaos and magic. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. What does chaos mean? Yeah. What, yeah, what do you mean by that? Um, I think that what I don't like about. I mean, there are many things I don't like about organized religion. Mm-hmm. Okay. But what I don't, some, one thing that I don't like about it is this feeling of like deservingness that like some people are deserving of, of something and some people are not. Okay. Oh, interesting. Which I think maybe is also connected to the idea that you're born and you're sinful and, um, so you have to somehow make it up to this God that it's made up. Yeah. Do you, was this like a feeling that you, or like a belief that you as like a young girl that you believe, or was this something that. Like, was there ever an a time that you kind of was like, oh, um, no. When I was a kid, I remember having these, uh, images of God. I was like this guy who ran like a switchboard. Okay. Yeah. And he would like hit the I'm gonna make Kristina sneeze right now. Ah, okay. And then he would hit that button on the, that's what I remember having that image in my head that he just controlled everything Uhhuh. That's so funny. Um, but I don't know that I ever believed it, you know? Yeah, sure. Okay. Just when people talked about it, that's what came into my head. Oh. I also just remembered that I was baptized, okay. When I was 10 in a Unitarian Universalist church. I don't think I've ever heard of In Brook in, uh, Boston by a lesbian, uh, priest. Love that. Yeah. And my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Miller, was my godmother. And I'm like not in touch with her anymore, unfortunately. I just had, yeah. What is this moment in time? What is this one time? Because I also just had a remembrance of, we talked about this in episode one. One I had when I was driving to LA and I had the near death experience with the car, and I called Philip and he was actually at your, you had a version of a baptism with this group in New York. What? What? It wasn't like religious. It was like this. Oh God. Like it was like a kind of a self-help thing. Oh, landmark. That was it. Yeah. Landmark. And I called him and he was like, I'm in the middle of this like ceremony for Kristina. Wait, this landmark thing? What's Landmark? I feel like I've heard of it. It's like, have you guys heard of est? It used to be est. And then they rebranded and now it's landmark. No, and it's like a combination of like self-help and psychology and, okay. Yeah. I loved it. It, I thought it was great for me. You loved it? Oh, I got so much, I got a lot out of it. And I did like, like courses with them for like two years. Wow. So it's like an organized, but it's not religion, it's, it's not religious? No. People, people think it's a cult. Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Okay. Uh, why, why do they think it's a cult from someone who's done it? I know nothing about it. So it's like, um, I think people think it's a cult because Do you have to pay? You have to pay. Okay. Yeah. It's a little bit like, then they want you to get people to come. Mm-hmm. Okay. And, but. I, I mean, I did it and when I did it, I was like, people should come.'cause it's great. Yeah. And it really helped me, you know. So what did you learn from it? Yeah. Oh, so many things. Um, um, okay. So they're like workshops? Yeah, they're like workshops. They're like, they're like group workshops and you. You like talk and you It's a lot of like, I would say it, it includes like journaling and Okay. They like encourage you to have conversations with people Okay. In your life that, but what did you take away from it? What, what did I take away from it? Um, I think one of the main things I took away from it is before I did it, I remember feeling like I never wanted to be, have any responsibility or like, be in charge of anything. Mm. Or have people like relying on me or looking to me for, for, for something. Okay. And when I did it, I came out the other side and like really? Um, I changed my like, relationship to, to responsibility and it, it became very empowering to me to be responsible for something and take responsibility that's, and like, take responsibility for myself and my life and the way it is. And, it improved my, my ability to communicate or just like say how I feel or say like, I did it, I was wrong. Or say like, like confidence in general. Maybe. Confidence in general, for sure. Um, it's a, it's also I think my experience, I would say my experience before, and I, and I miss, I feel like I try to surround myself with people who are, who are like this because I'm aware of it now, but like, I think the majority. Of people, when you have an idea or wanna do something, um, you go, you, you, if you say it, the majority of people will be like, well, here are all the reasons why that's gonna be really hard. Mm. And why that's not gonna work, and why that's actually not a great idea. Mm-hmm. Right. And I have this experience. So I think if you try to do that, it's gonna, this is what's gonna happen. Did it come up and when you said you wanted to be an actor, like, did you ever come against that with family or friends of like, oh yeah. Like I had a family friend when I, when I, I don't even know if I had applied to NYU. Mm-hmm. But, um, I had either, I was just about to, or I had, and we had a family friend and I remember her saying, oh well, oh, why are you, why are you submitting there? Like, you're never gonna get in. Whoa. It's so hard to get in. Oh. And I remember being like, and I think I was young, you know, I think when we're kids too, we don't, we don't have all these like stories about the way things are. Yeah, yeah. Like, um, and the way they're not, and what works and what doesn't work. Mm-hmm. And so I think I was a little bit like that with, I was like, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I mean, I think I was also like, grew up in Ger like I went to high school in Germany, so it wasn't like the college thing is, is is very present there the way it is here, maybe in, in us, you know? And I was like, I don't know. And I applied early decision. So it was it was the only school I applied to. Wow. Okay. Did you fly out to audition? No, I sent in a, I sent in a tape, well, this way back in the day when it was. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's like, I'm sure that was like almost unheard of. Of, I mean, back. Yeah. Oh, like how would you do it? We had to go to a place and they did it for me. It was like we had to like find a place in Munich, which was also crazy. Wow. But, but, um, but just to go back, like Landmark was a place Uhhuh where if you said, I wanna do this, the response was, okay, what can I do to help you do it? Yeah. How are we gonna do it? Right. And not just how are you gonna do it, but how are we gonna do it? Yes. You know, how do I help you do that? So it was a community, it's definitely a community. Community and like, I think it also like teaches you about community. So then I left and I was like, again, like, well, I wanna surround myself by people who are like, how can I help you do that? Right. You know? Do you feel like you've found that? Yeah. I feel like I'm, I am, I'm currently in the last few months in a space where I'm like, Ooh, I need to find spaces where that's more the case. Yes. Okay. Because I feel myself buying into the stories of it's not gonna work more again. And it's always like, you know, it's always like this. It's like up and down. But I feel like, and I think I'm actually, I'm saying that, but I think I'm actually like climbing out of it now. Mm-hmm. That's good. But it's not gonna work. Meaning your career's not gonna work? Or what, what it, what's not gonna work? Anything. Anything. Like anything. I, I, I mean, the last several years have been very hard in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. And I feel like the narrative, therefore has been, well, it's really hard. Yeah. You know, and it's like. Yes. And the thing is like, you can always find something hard about it. Mm. And you can always find something or you just, you just do it. You know what I mean? You try it. I think it's when you, like there's always something hard. It's just like when you let that stop you. Yeah. It's like the, it is like the body, brain thing, you know? Yeah. I did have this moment recently where I was thinking about,'cause there was somebody that I met who had an auditioned for something and I had like that ping of jealousy about it. And I was thinking about how when do you get to a point where you don't like feel that anymore? And I was thinking like Emma Stone, like Emma Stone probably never feels jealous or whatever. But then I was like, is that true? Because definitely like Emma Stone and Florence Pugh have probably been up in the same earth. Oh yeah. And it's probably, so it kind of, I think it opened the door a little bit of a crack of a way for me into a new realization of that. It's. There's always gonna be that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's true. That it's not ever gonna be, I don't think it's ever gonna be gone. Right. There's always gonna be a fear of staying relevant once you're at the top, or you're always gonna be competing against up these people who are coming up behind you. Yeah. No one is immune to becoming suddenly irrelevant. So I was just thinking, I need to sort of really grapple with this and understand that that's just always gonna be like what at all the levels. It always has been. Yeah. And it always will be. Yeah. And I also think for I, ever since COVID, especially I've, I've dealt with being depressed, like going in and out of depression. Mm-hmm. And what I've noticed, and I've noticed it with joy is like, a lot of times it has to do with actually nothing. Like, it just, I'm just sad and like then I start to assign, and something that I loved that from, from Landmark two was they, they say we're meaning making machines like humans are. Meaning making machines. Meaning making machines. And I mean, yeah. And that helps me because not only is it like, oh, I'm sad and I can assign it to all these things. Mm-hmm. Sure. And also, or I can assign it to nothing and it's just happening. And, when I'm joyful, I can assign it to something. But I've been, I've had moments where I feel the most joyful I've ever been in the car, driving with the windows down, listening to a song. And nothing's happening in my career. I don't, I didn't just like fall in love. I don't, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Nothing happened. Nothing happened. I'm just really happy all of a sudden, you know? Yeah. Into a great song. You have the windows roll down and Yeah. It's life, baby. It's the best parts of life. Yeah. I think, yeah. That was another thing that I learned. It, it's like, they call it like, you know, story, you're telling stories. We, we make up a lot of stories about stuff. So if I'm in a moment where I'm like, ah, then I can be like, what's the real, what's the reality and what's the story I'm telling? Like, when I did it, it was very, very helpful for auditions specifically. Mm-hmm. Because I would go in and I would be like, I went in and they said hello and they were smiling, and then I did my monologue and I noticed that they were looking at their thing, and that means that they weren't interested in my monologue. Oh. And then I, when I left, they didn't say thank you. And, um, they looked away. And so that means they hate me. And like, all the things that I'm making up about what this means is like when the reality, what, what happened? I went in, they said, hello, I did my monologue. They looked down at their sheet, I said, goodbye. I left. That was what happened. Everything else Yeah. I made up. Right. Because, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that was very helpful. It basically gave me tools that I can to use to do that. Yeah. You know? Did you ever go back to Landmark or would you ever I've thought about it, yeah. But I does it. I've never felt like I wanted to. Okay. And you said it wasn't spiritual or religious, but in, in a sense, I mean, again, I'm don't know, anything. It feels spiritual to me. Does it? Does it feel like, I don't know. No. Like what is spiritual? Good question. That is a great, that's a question we've been asking over and over. Yeah, that's, that is a really good question. Well, I guess I've been thinking about it too since I listened to the podcast, which is like fascinating. Yeah. And I've been thinking about like, what do I think? You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's okay if you don't consider that spiritual, but that's what's my question.'cause I think a lot of these, like, you know, it's, it's the practice of like, almost like mindfulness practices. Yeah. When you said journaling is, I'm like, wow, these are all practices that we're talking about on the podcast. Yeah. So I, but you also didn't think of it as spiritual, so it's like, yeah. You know, well, I,. What does it mean exactly to me, the, as I've been listening to all the people on your podcast mm-hmm. And, and, and you two, I keep thinking any kind of spirituality in some way is bringing awareness Yeah. Is like giving you a way to help you become more aware. Oh, I love that. Of what you're doing, of what you're not doing. Mm-hmm. Of what you're feeling, of what your thoughts are. And that's, that's great. I feel like it's very Scorpio. It's this like, I wanna understand it to, I wanna understand everything to the very, very bottom, uh, and sometimes to my detriment.'cause it's like, or you don't have, like, maybe it's not gonna help you, but I, but I, but to a certain extent, I think awareness is, is great. You know? Yeah. Like, I've never prayed, but like, I've done certain things where I journal and like, it's like a, I've, I've myself have been like a prayer for something. Like I write it down and to me, like praying is like I'm saying what I want out loud. Or I'm saying what I feel out loud, so I'm becoming aware of that. Right. You know, like, um, so it's a lot of like discovery stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, I think I have the right to rescind this, but for now, I feel like spirituality to me means either something that is bigger than yourself or something that is deeper. It's either bigger or deeper, I think. Huh. Okay. Connection wise. Something else that I I heard once and I ha have thought about a lot ever since I heard it, is, you know, um, I'm really not a scientist, but you know about quantum. Quantum, you know, but you know, like quantum physics. Yeah. Have you, have you ever heard of like, um, Adams switching places? Yeah. What? Yeah, like Adams are constantly switching places. Okay. And there's this whole, you've talked about it on the podcast a bunch. This like idea of we are all one. Yes. Like we are all one consciousness. Yeah. Love about that. Conscious. Maybe like scientifically we are all made out of the same thing. Yes. So I think about that a lot. And if Adams are constantly switching places, we literally are just the same thing. And I don't know why, Is creating the separation Right. Between me and the couch and the microphone and mm-hmm. You and, but I think if I had to like say it mm-hmm. What is bigger to me than us is us and everything altogether. Mm-hmm. Right. But it's not like separate. Yeah. It's just Do you that extend out, would that extend out to the universe? Yeah. Everything and infinity and beyond. Yeah. So it doesn't sound like it's a higher power. It is like the power of all the things that exist here. Yes. The atoms mixing together. Yes. I love, I really like that idea. And like I, that idea you've also talked about, like, do you believe in coincidences, Uhhuh? Oh yeah. Yeah. Or fate. Mm-hmm. Do you believe things happened for a reason? Uh, no. Okay. No. Okay. Okay. Because, I think I used to, but I, I just recently had like a very shitty few months. Mm-hmm. Just like a lot there. Well, there was one month where just like, all this shit happened. One thing after the other. Would you mind saying any of the shit? Um, yeah. So I went on a trip to New York and. I landed in the, on the first I took a red eye. Never again. I'm too old. Yeah. Um, I landed and I threw my back out so like I could barely walk and I had to go to urgent care and get like muscle relaxants and painkillers. Yeah. And then I was staying with my wonderful friend who we basically all we could do is like lie on the couch and watch. Um, and, and then, um, a very, uh, person who was very, very, um, important to me died while we were, anyway, we were visiting a friend. Uh, I was visiting a very close family friend and someone very close to us died while we were there. And it was very sudden and it was awful. And then, and that was the most awful. And then there was like, then grief like starts and, um, I. Thank you. Um, and then all these other stupid things happened. Like, um, I stayed in another friend's wonderful house, but at towards the end we thought there may be bedbugs in my bed.'cause I was like bitten all over my body, which I don't think it was bedbugs in the end, but there was some bug in the bed that just, oh my god, bit me this idea of it. So it's so stressful. Oh my gosh. Then I, we, I went home and three days after I got home, I realized I had left my laptop at at, at JFK Security. So I didn't have my laptop. I thankfully got it back. Um, and I think there was, yeah, bunch of shit, something. It was just like a bunch of shit, like, like horrible things. And I remember at the end of it where it felt like. Oh, and then my dog, and that was, that was the crown. The crowning thing was my dog had to get emergency stomach surgery. Oh my gosh. Which, which cost$12,000. Oh my God. And I luckily had like, had my pet insurance renewed like two weeks earlier. Anyway, so that was the, that was like the, the cherry on the shit Sunday. That sounds like rain, it pour Yeah, exactly. Like an epitome of that. I'm so sorry. And that week after she had her surgery, I had my first ever panic attack. I'd never had a panic attack before.'cause I was so worried that she wasn't getting better. And anyway. And um, I, I remember thinking, which I, I had done a lot before. I remember thinking, what did I do? Yeah. Oh, you to deserve this. I remember having the thought or, um, it was, what did I do to deserve this? And then it was. I wonder what I'm supposed to be learning Yeah. Out of this. Right. And then I was like, wait a minute. And I think that's when I was like, I think I believe in chaos because I don't think either of those things are true. I don't think I deserved it. I don't think really it works that way. Like to me, there's too many examples of people and situations in the world where there's just no way that people deserve that. Right. Yeah. Right, right. It's just so too awful. Yes. For someone to deserve that. Like, and it's almost so awful that it's not even, I think people use the idea of like, oh, well I learned something like yes or second thing I learn from it. But Yeah. I see what you mean. It's like sometimes things are so, like, it's not even. It's greater than that. Yeah. It's not about learning. It's just, yeah. Like you said, it just happens. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the seedy underbelly of all this stuff. This is like the stuff that's hard to, to talk about.'cause then if it, because when you're saying all that, yeah, from my perspective,'cause I do believe in the universe and I believe that to a certain degree things happen to take care of us. And like what I wrote down was like that you got your laptop back, which is like, how did that happen? You renew your pet insurance two weeks before. I know that, saw that too. You were actually in the state to take care of your family friend. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. When that happened, like to me that's like is something, I'm sorry. I'm gonna make you talk about it. I mean, I thought about the friend too because I was like, I, this friend doesn't deserve this. Right? This friend doesn't deserve this. Um. And I think I was also like, I don't wanna learn anything about this. I don't want us to learn anything from this. I think this was just shitty. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. And like I think the opposite is true too. I don't think you have to have deserved joy. Mm-hmm. I don't think you have to have achieved something or, yeah. I don't, I don't believe anymore. Like just Maybe to bring it back to acting, since we're all actors, like I don't believe anymore. Like this person got this part and they really deserved it. Right. I don't think they don't deserve it. Do you know what I mean? But I don't think they do. Like, I don't think that somebody else doesn't deserve it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just too, like it's not black and white. Yeah.. I think this is why I believe in chaos.'cause it's trying to explain something where too many things don't make sense. Mm-hmm. To me. Yeah. Like I hope we can enjoy the things that are wonderful. Yeah. And because there's also so much shit. Yeah. It's just like it's never gonna not be there. Has that concept helped you? Like since you have kind of found this idea of chaos? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. That's, I don't think I was ever very, like, I've never been a ver like somebody who doesn't feel their feelings. I think I've always been someone who's like, and now I feel shitty and now I feel good and now, you know. Yeah. But I do think, I used to think. If I work really hard and do this and this and this and this and this, this'll happen. Right. You know? It's just sometimes a tap. That's true. Yeah. Right. And sometimes it's not. It's just, it's like, it's, uh, well, especially with acting, I feel like it's hard to see the, like progression, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like you put in the work pin all, you put in all of this, and sometimes it, you know, pays off and works out really well, and then other times you just don't get the part. Yeah. You just don't get parts. Yeah. Right. You just like that, you just, you don't get parts, you don't get any parts sometimes. Yeah. And, and I think I'm also, so, you know, people are so angry about. Like, uh, uh, we, we went and saw, um, a Griffith Park Shakespeare last night, and it was so fun. Oh. What was the show? Um, uh, loves Labor's Loss. Okay. And, uh, you know, it turned out that the person who directed it is also the co-artistic director. Mm-hmm. And the, and the woman who is like, one of the main female parts is the co-artistic director, the other one, and they're married. Mm-hmm. And they've, you know, run this thing for 20 years. And I think maybe when I was younger, I would've been like, well, how, you know, that's not fair.'cause they're do. And now I'm like, of course. Like, of course. Like, what? Right. Why not? You know? Yeah. They made it. They're, you know, I, or yeah, it just is like, I'm not angry about it. I'm just like. Yeah, why not? And I had fun, you know? Was it explaining to you accurately just how random this industry is? Absolutely not. Were training for this. Absolutely not. And, and lemme say, lemme say also that, uh, because I think, I think a couple things. If someone did explain that to me and I fully understood it, uhhuh, I think I would've been less attached to it, to doing it. You'd think you wouldn't do it or you would your feelings towards it. Mm. Good question. Uh, would you have still done it? Yeah. Would you still have done it? Would you been like, oh, well then No. I don't know. Or, or, oh, okay. Interesting. But I hope I would've done it with a different attitude. Right. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. You hope that like it was more of a detached. Yeah. Uh, but I think the reality is you can't know. I can't, I now I know that, you know what I mean? I think that's to live everything. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because, and, and the only like, like the i, and I don't fault the people who don't explain it even Maybe they did. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I wouldn't have heard it the way that I could really understand it now. I would've been like, yeah, but like, I am gonna be discovered on the street in New York and be on Rabbit. Like, that's your journey. My journey. Yeah. Like back then, I think we were like, well, she's bitter. She's bitter because her career never went anywhere. But you're right. That's not gonna be me. They do say it's like kind of a, you know, it's like the career that's like. The most like oh, one in a million chances. Kind of. We do hear this, it's almost like, uh, when people describe to you, when older people describe to you when you're younger, that time goes by faster. You be older and you're like, yeah, sure, whatever. And then it's not until you live in, you're like, what is, this is happening so fast. It feels similar to that. Like you can't, I'm sure, I'm sure there've been many signs mm-hmm. For us to like know how, but, I think the random part, I think people still don't talk about the trajectory. Is that the Right, how do you say it? Yeah. Trajectory. Yeah. It's not a, it's not a straight shot. Yeah. A hundred. You're not working yourself up. It's ups and downs and at one moment you're doing it. And then that's the, I think that's what I, yeah. I think I, that's where I am now is grappling with the absolute true randomness of it. And I think it's changed like. I think when we graduated, the world was a different place and it was kind of more like one guest star would lead to another guest star would lead to another guest star would lead to a series regular. And there was a, it was, maybe it was still random, but there was more of a line, whereas now it just feels not like that at all. I was gonna say that too.'cause it's so, it's so, everything is changing all the time. Yeah. Somebody who was an actor in the seventies can't, they can't give you, give you a way to do it because everything will change. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like I had, I was so moved to, I was with friends and family over this past weekend and I was talking to my dad and my experience and like perception of my dad is that he kind of like lived the quote American dream, which is like his family didn't have that much money. His dad was an immigrant. His mom was Canadian. He's from Canada, but then they moved to the United States. His dad was German. My grandpa was a tool and dime maker. Like they didn't have that much money. My dad, uh, I, I believe that my grandpa also didn't go to college. So he was never able to like get a very high that, that high paying of a job. Mm-hmm. And he instilled in my dad, like, you need to get a good education so that you can get a good job so that you can make a lot of money so that you can care for your family. Mm-hmm. And my dad did that and he like worked his way and worked really hard and was very successful and also happened to actually really love his job. Yeah. And when we were talking the other day, he was like, I think most people don't know. No. Like really no. That most of it is luck. Yeah. And I was like, whoa. Even for him. Yeah. I was gonna say, even for him, like yeah, I was like, the fact that you are know that and are saying that. Mm-hmm. And like he said, like he says a lot, I'm very lucky. Like I feel very lucky. Mm-hmm. But that conversation, I was like, oh no you get that on a more molecular level. And that's, to me, connect that to me is like, I was like, yeah, that's the chaos. To me he was like saying. I just happen to be very lucky. Right. A bunch of times. You know what I mean? So how do you keep going then? Like, do you feel that the chaos will strike you? The lightning will strike you and, and your dreams will come true? Or what? Because I think a lot of the spiritual practices for me are how to keep going. Yeah. I think it's just, What makes you happy in the moment? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So it goes back to like, yeah, you go in the car. Like that's when you felt like Yeah. When you're present. Yeah. Yeah. You're not thinking about it, not thinking about the chaos. I think I, I. I really liked this. I mean, you said it already in the beginning and on your first episode, like you're, you're connected to nature. Mm-hmm. You know, I think when I'm in nature, I, I feel more like my atoms are changing places. Uhhuh. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I feel more a part of, right. Like I am, it was funny'cause when I listened to the episode with, I forget her name, but the Ecos psychologist. Yeah. Yeah. She, what I kept thinking was, because I think it kept coming up like, we are, we are a part of nature or we mm-hmm. You know, and I kept thinking we are mm-hmm. Nature. Yeah. We are nature, like we are animals. It's so easy to forget that because we think too much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the world we live in too, I think the modern world, I would say at tributes to that,, we were talking about too is like, that practice from hers is like, made you like, just think more, or just made you more attuned and more curious. Yeah. I, that feeling is like something, it feels so innately childlike. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I feel like we, when we're kids and we're just playing, we're just in the moment and having that, you know, we feel so much more connected and we feel so much more like alive and happy. So, okay. Do you think that because I, I'm like, there must be some, I don't really know a lot about nostalgia, but I must have some Scorpio rise or something.'cause I too, I'm like, what's the bottom of it? Yeah. Yeah. In the chaos theory, the Kristina's chaos. Yes. Hot chaos with the, Hey, if it, do you believe that some, that the chaos will guide you to something different? If I was gonna say, if you're meant to do something different, but in the ca Kristina chaos theory doesn't really, it doesn't sound like, can I ask this question? Yes. In that like, yeah. Do you believe that there is something leading you somewhere? Yeah. And if so, or if not, whatever, uh, like signs, like do you believe in like signs? Do you believe in like that kind of stuff? Yes. Um. It's a two part question. It is. I believe in, yeah, I think I believe in, so I said I believe in chaos. Mm-hmm. And magic. Okay. So the, this is what the magic. So I think, I believe in the feeling I get when a coincidence happens. And you attribute that to magic or chaos. It feels like magical to me. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I guess I'm trying to think of an example, sort of like the magic through the chaos. Like the magic is the guiding force through the ca, the tornado chaos. Like you seek the magic. No, I think it's the same thing as luck. Okay. It's like the lightning. The lightning strike. And does the feeling of magic help me stay? Wanting to be alive. Yeah, I think so. Do you trust the magic? Because I think a big part of it for me is like, go ahead. Well, what I'm getting is that it because it's chaos and correct me if I'm trying to, trying to try to tangle. Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. If, if it is chaos. Yeah, because we need to trust, you know, you're, I think we're thinking we're always looking for something and to, to, to, there's a path, right? Uhhuh, but maybe with chaos is there no, there is no right. Or do you just get to choose your own path because there is chaos or the path just gets formed in the chaos because we are just living and so that's just gonna happen. That's what it feels like to me. Like life. Is happening. Yeah. Good, bad, all of it. Yeah. And in, in it, you know, there get, you have the moments of, the magic moments. Yeah. Right. And so it's not necessarily like, and you said you didn't really believe in like Yeah, because it's all chaos. It's not just like, there's not, oh, I lost it. It's gone. It's gone. I mean, but, right. I, my, yeah. Yeah. You're, you're making me, you are making me think of what I said earlier about taking responsibility though, because I think what I don't feel is like everything is happening to me. Sure. Right. It's kind of like, um, hilariously, it's kind of like the serenity prayer. Oh, okay. Except the things I cannot change. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so I, I'm making myself inability because this is, when you said this, this is, this is my visual, right? Yeah. Kristina's cast theory is a tornado, but there are pebbles in through the tornado and the pebbles are magic, and they will lead you to the right option. Because I think the, the great comfort that I have, yeah. In my spirit guides and humors, is that I feel that if I was not called to do this incredibly hard, random, difficult thing, I would know, I would be told, I would be given signs. Mm-hmm. I would feel that this is, that this is not it, you know? Yeah. And so until I feel that or see that. I'm okay with going with the random path, and I, and I feel like signs are given to me, and I'm happy with that because I know that I would be told if it wasn't for me. I think that's why I'm, I'm kind of curious about my own inability to grasp what a true chaos theory. Yeah. I'm still trying to make the pebbles for you. Right, right. Because, but that's not how you feel about if it, yeah. If you were just called on a whim to move to Egypt and start building pyramids, would you, would you, uh, if your gut, if going back to the gut, um, I don't know, uh, do you believe that there is a right path? I don't think there's a right path. Yeah. I don't know. It's a chaos theory. Working. Yeah. Working. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's like you choose your own adventure. Yeah. Yeah. Like it feels so much like that. Like, I'm trying to think of a other way to say it. Yeah. But like, that's not much what I'm thinking of.'cause it feels like, I, I feel like airie you, you, for us there is more like, I think I go, that's why I asked about the path.'cause I feel like when you were saying like the tornadoes and, you know, everything's moving, but I can see the pebbles, but I'm like, but I, I feel like with the chaos is like, no, a lot of it is random. So I'm choosing it. In the moment. Yeah. And like, yeah. And yeah. Not to say like, you're not like working hard, taking responsibility for it. Yeah. You know, you're, you're giving, you're, you're taking what is given to you. Yeah. Right. And you are working with it. Right. I think the, I think taking responsibility is, feels empowering. Yeah. In a, in a chaos that I have No, yeah. Real power. I think I could, I feel like I could grab onto that. Like, if the world is gonna be random, then I'm just gonna be a random shoe. Yeah. If you choose to be random. So I, I'm gonna Egypt, guess what, honey? Deal with it. I mean, it's true. It, it's true. Like, I feel like it's opening my mind a little bit just to, the, the world has to work around you in a weird way. Right? If you decided to move to Egypt. You would have to pack up your stuff and your dog and you'd move to Egypt and then things would happen. Yeah. You would eat things, you would meet people. Yeah. You'd probably get a sunburn like that, like random things would happen, you know? Yeah. And some great things would happen. Yeah. It does have to work around you in a weird way, like in a weird way. I think that that does feel empowering to be like, I'm gonna take the power back of this chaos and make it my own. Did you, when you made the choice to move to la, did you like living in New York? I loved that. Yeah. You loved it? So why did you move? Yeah. Why? Yeah, why? I don't know. I don't know. I don't love la I love New York. Would you go back? Uh, no,, but it's. Yeah, this has been coming up for me a lot. Mm, really? Yeah. Like I, I, I do stuff here and I walk around and I'm like, I don't know. I don't love it. Mm. And then I ask myself, what are you doing here? Yeah. Yeah. Is it'cause acting? Acting, oh, is it a body? I, I think it because you acted in New York. I said, does it feel like it's coming from your body? Oh. Or your mind. Which part? The, what are you doing here part? Oh. I think that I don't love it is coming from my body. Mm-hmm. Okay. And then, yeah, maybe I'm overcomplicating it by asking, what are you doing here? I think you have to, right? We're humans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Meaning making machines. Yeah. Meaning making machines. Exactly. Um, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't go back to New York. But I would, the thought that I've had about it is it would be really hard. With my dog in New York. Right, right. Okay. Let's say, let's say we figured that out. Yeah. Which you can. Mm-hmm. Yeah. People live in New York with dogs all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why that's such a big thing for me. Another part of me is like, I, I did that. Right. You know? I don't know. Would you move to another place? Yeah. Maybe. I really wanna move to Italy and learn Italian. Oh my God. Before actually really good. Or I can move to Vancouver.'cause I'm Canadian. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, I'll miss you, but go, this world is, this country is going seriously. Yeah. And there's a lot of acting opportunities still. That's what I hear. It's great for dogs. Just for, but it's a change and change timing. I get it. Yeah. Like, it's so easy to say that. But, and I have a question'cause I know obviously we've done improv together and I know you do a lot theater. Do you, would, if you gotta choose, would you like stay in the theater? Would you do film, would you do tv? Would you wanna do it all? I wanna do it all. And I really wanna do voiceover stuff. Oh right. Voiceovers. And that's actually a little bit of a thing that's keeping me here, which I have for the first time ever, an agent Nice. Who I love, who I think is fantastic. And I'm repped by them for, uh, voiceover and commercial. Mm-hmm. And I've been getting a lot of awesome voiceover auditions. That's awesome. But I haven't booked anything, but I've only been repped by them for voiceover since last November. Mm-hmm. So part of me is like, I need to give it more time, but then another part of me is like, how much time do I give it? And how much time do you ever give it? Do you know what I mean? Well, yeah. You could do, well, you could do voiceover auditions and just tape from anywhere, anywhere, anywhere. Which is also, yeah. It's almost, do you guys think agencies are like totally fine with that now? I mean, I, I think for voicemail, a hundred percent. I think like. I, I've definitely still, I'm attached to the acting thing. Yeah. Okay. Because it's, is it because you just really want to do it? Yeah. Or it's because you feel like it's part of your identity? Yeah. But all of it, yeah. I recently had this, um, realization. I have, uh, I made friends with a guy and became very good friends with him over the last two years, and he's moving away. Mm. And several weeks ago, I, so we've known each other for two years. Mm-hmm. And I was like, he's never seen me act in anything. Mm-hmm. I haven't been in a show, I haven't been in a, like a, I haven't been in a play, I haven't been on a show like I did a commercial or two, which. Is wonderful, but feels like it doesn't really count as acting sometimes. And like, it made me so sad. Mm-hmm. I, I thought, I feel like you don't know who I am. Oh. Since we've met, I'm like, I'm an actor. I'm an actor, I'm an actor, I'm an actor. Hmm. And I'm like, you've never seen me act in anything. Hmm. I've never been able to invite you to anything. It made me so sad. It made me think. I, I hate that part of me felt like, I don't think you know who I am, even though we're very close and you know who I am. Interesting. Is it, is it easy for you to say, I'm an actor when you're not working? I have trouble with that. I feel a little fraudulent about it. Yeah. It sucks. I hate that feeling exactly what you're talking about in that moment. I was like, wait, I, I, I talked to him about it. I was like, and I was like crying to him like. I feel like you don't know who I am. You know? What did he say to that? What did he say to that? Um, like, do a monologue. I don't, I don't. He came to the show yesterday. Okay. And I was like, we were, we were the group of friends and, um, one of the friends. Doug. Doug who was on your Yes. Doug. We were in the first show I was ever in, in LA with Doug was Love's Labors Lost, which they did yesterday in the park. Wow. Okay. And so I was talking to my friend Josh that a sign that feels like a sign too, a pickle. But I was, I was saying to my friend Josh, I was like. Doug and I were in a, the production of this guy, and Philip and Doug and I went to college and we were in Radda because Josh is from London. And we were like, we, we were all at Radda and blah, blah, blah, you know? And I felt like I was trying to be like, I am. Oh, I'm, I'm really an actor. You know what I mean? Was like, I don't know if he even like experienced it like that, but I myself was like, yeah, no, wait, but like, do you believe me that I'm an actor? Oh my gosh. It's, it brings up two questions for me. One is like, does a person know you if they don't know your art? Is it possible to really know a person without ever knowing what they do? And I think, and, and is it different if what you do is something with numbers or marketing right? Then does it not matter? That's a good question. I, I think because like, yeah, because what you do, I like to say no, I like to say you or I to say you, you do know a person. I think. You get to really know a person and when you see their art or, or them be creative or like their passion, I think passion is like a key component. But not, maybe not all, all of our passions are our jobs. Right. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. So that's how I kind of, yeah. I also think it's interesting that it's such a microcosm of like a greater thing. You know what I mean? Like, it feels to me like that Wait, like what? Like, like it feels like you are yelling to the world. I know, but it's actually to your friend Josh, who's probably like Yeah. Who totally, I totally believe you. You know? Yeah. But like, yeah, I mean that's, it kinda goes back to what you were saying, but just the, the whole randomness of it and how it, it just isn't, it isn't always, and I don't think it ever is really linear really. No. When I have that real, I, I mean from a personal perspective, to go back to the question like, I did feel that way in the moment. Like he, when I realized that mm-hmm. I felt, well, wait a minute, you don't know me then. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just want everybody to make their shit. Mm-hmm. I stop myself so much because I get in my own head about is it gonna be good or not? Right? Yeah. Who cares? Who cares? So we need to know things that you do on a day-to-day basis, or a week or, or a month. Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah. That you feel are, if we don't wanna call'em spiritual, we don't have to. Practices that help you stay in a positive. Mindset. Um, I think I'm pretty, I hope this is the right word, hedonistic. Like, do I know what that word means? Yeah. Pleasure seeking. Oh, okay. If I am go in a store and I'm like, wow, that fucking cookie looks good. Mm-hmm. You got the cookie? I got the cookie. Yeah. Oh, this is fun. Okay. I like this as a spiritual practice. Like, I wanna, I want Yeah. Like, I wanna take a bath mm-hmm. Tonight. Yeah. Creating your own magic. Yeah. Like, I'm very, like, I was in A clothing store and people were trying stuff on and I was like, yeah, yeah. Get it, get it. Oh my God, that looks amazing. Get it. And then I said as a joke to the people working in the store, like, you should, you should hire me as an enabler. And it doesn't have to be like things you have to buy. It's just like, I feel like a lot of people are like, well, I can't do that because, and I can't have this because Yeah. Just do it. Do it. Yeah. No. If you have the thought, no I shouldn't. If you have the thought, no, I shouldn't then do it. Should you shouldn Okay. Like indulge and have indulge. Yeah. Indulge. I love that. I love that. I'll indulge take that with a cookie. Uh, is there anything you wanna plug or promote? Oh, come take my spin class. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What is your studio? Uh, uh, Eagle Rock. It's called RevCycle. Okay. And there are two, there's one in Eagle Rock and one in San Marino. Okay. And they're both great, but I only really teach at the Eagle Rock one, and my regular day is Friday's 9:00 AM Cool. 45 minutes and never the same class. You should come. Bumping music, right? Yeah. Yeah. If, yeah. Uh, well, let's, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Please keep us updated on the Chaos Kristina show. Yeah. It's a work in progress, chaos and magic. Anyway, this has been SPODA Beane. Good. Be sane and live well. Thank you. Love you. Bye. Bye.