Are You Living with Functional Depression? The Truth About Black Fatigue

What does it mean to be "strong" when you're carrying more than anyone realizes?

In this episode of Skills & Pills, Dr. Mo and Dr. Jo have an honest conversation about functional depression, Black fatigue, and the emotional toll of constantly pushing through. They explore how generational messages like "just get over it" can shape the way we handle pain, why code-switching and self-advocacy can be exhausting, and how a lack of trust in healthcare keeps many people from getting the support they need.

If you've ever felt like you're surviving instead of living, this conversation offers validation, insight, and hope for a healthier way forward.

Color blind or color brave? | Mellody Hobson: https://youtu.be/oKtALHe3Y9Q?si=a4-z-3LnKevWtXqw

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Mom, I'm depressed. And then they say something like, You better depress them dishes. And I think that comes out of a place of survival.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Baby, you've got time to be depressed.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Because these bills still build like you're trying to prepare us. I think so too. And so I think a lot of us as black people walk around with functional depression.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

And I believe we walk around suppressing pain, period. We're gonna continue our conversation about mental health observance for the BIPOC community in the month of July. Uh last episode, we talked really very much in our counselor brains, our professional brains. And so what does it look like now for me just to be a person and talk about like literally our lived um experiences just walking around in the world as African American women? You know, we just wear so many hats. And you kind of chuckle at that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Right. Is that why we're so degreed? We're the most degreed population in the United States right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Where's the lie on that though?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Like I let me see, let me see, let me see. Your options go to therapy. Right. Take it to Jesus. We said degree. Degree. We're gonna do those other things too.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

But we're gonna get a degree. You know what I think though that plays into that? I believe not just when we get depressed or something, but I think when we have come to realize that the one thing when it comes to suppression, oppression, minimalization, minimalization, and marginalization, social mobility is key. As an entrepreneur, I met a gentleman uh the year I became an entrepreneur, and he looked at me in my face. He said, You have to understand that when it comes to entrepreneurship, there is black, there is white, and there is green. And I was like, What are you talking about? And he was like, do not look at culture and that look at good business practice, look at what is going to produce revenue and streams of revenue, and you will find out that when those streams of revenue are created and once they're increased to a certain space, then you uh have less hoops to jump as a minority. And I was like, ooh, that's kind of 1960-ish, because he was a way uh oh a lot older than me, but I came to realize that he was accurate.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So when it comes to getting the degree, I think what we've realized, especially as African American women, is that uh when we seek a collected knowledge base, right? It comes along with a certain amount of social mobility. Now, unfortunately, uh research uh research bears out and says, No matter what, we still have a ceiling. Right. You're gonna hit you're gonna hit that ceiling. Um, what does that look like? I was talking about I really think it starts.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

I really think it starts at when you say like, mom, I'm depressed, and then they say something like you better depress them dishes, otherwise that's where it starts. Like, you'd be like, Don't do us like that. Come on. It is like a cultural experience. It's a cultural experience. If you've been a black youth, you would you came to your parents, you said, Listen, I'm stressed, I'm depressed, I'm overwhelmed. They're like, listen, back in 1992. We were stressed and on the bus. You know, you'd be like, well, dang it, I'm I'm not trying to rose the parks in, but I'm definitely struggling, you know? I think there's this suppression, and I think that comes out of a place of survival.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Maybe you got time to be depressed.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Because these bills still build, like you're trying to prepare so too. And so I think a lot of us as black people walk around with functional depression.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Not uh, yeah, I believe that. And I believe we walk around suppressing pain, period. Yeah, like even like our threshold for pain, not in my opinion, but physicians say it, counselors say it, that our threshold for pain is a match. So a lot of times when we go for help, because we walk through the world, having to suppress, hold on, just like having to having to suppress in that way that we're not seen.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

So this is actually a very important point, and this is why I'm interrupting you. Interrupt me. Because actually it's the opposite. No, no, no. But like I wanted to correct that thought because it's actually the opposite. They've had a lot of research studies come out on the medical side, on the medical side, that says that even though they have proven that we experience as black people the same level of pain, they did a study on physicians in college that are getting their degree, and most of them still would test and uh feel that we have some type of different threshold. We do not. Oh, that's weird. Yes, we're saying the same thing. But I just wanted to make sure that the people listening understood that we're suppressing to a level above our cohorts, our peers, but to the point where it does not appear that we have the same level of humanity and pain. And they also some of that comes from the transatlantic slave trade and some of the things that were said at that time. A lot of medical doctors really do believe that we have some type of superhuman pain level.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Do they treat us differently?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

They do because of that. What? And so they had some studies come out that said that there the view of us is still the same, even though a lot of universities and medical schools are doing a lot of work to try to break down those mentalities, they still persist today. Yeah. That we have, and that's why even with OBGYNs, we have the highest maternal um uh you know death rate for us and babies, the highest risks, right? Because we're often not listened to. And as people, we talked about it a little bit last episode in part one. The truth of the matter is one of the biggest reasons why we don't get care as black and brown people is because we don't trust it. I was about to say that.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

I know I was thinking that in my head. There is a, but you have to take under consideration, like from my generation, there you you were saying something about uh when you were like depressed those dishes. I was thinking too, when it came to illness and you know, taking care of our bodies and things like that, it would there was a school of thought that I don't feel good. Well, go to the, you know, go to the altar. Not to minimize, not to minimize deliverance, not to minimize healing. But I think sometimes by and large, that really uh stops some of us in the older generation of seeking medical care.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Like when we kind of needed it, you know, to just to get, and I'm gonna go ahead and do it for the people and say I could sometimes be three years down the road and like, oh, I haven't had a physical. Right. Sitting up on insurance. Yeah. Not because I don't have insurance, I think it's just a mindset that we go, we go, we go, we go, and we minimize that pain. We're like, oh, I'll take care of it, you know. So I think in our lived experience, because you know, it's easy for us to go in uh behavior health and medical brain, but just as an African American woman who has walked through uh different chronic treatments, uh walked through uh different uh traumatic healing processes, sometimes I think we just want to be seen. Like, like, like literally see me. What do I mean by see me? I mean I have a different experience in this world. I I walk through the world with um pressures daily, you know. Listen, let's not make it real overcomplicated. Cold switching is horror, man.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

It's like a horror. I'm exhausted. It's actually an art. I'm an idiot. It is better.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

For me to do this, for me to come out of the meeting. We come from cold switch central. Like, even in the attonation of our voice, like if I'm in a like is it the customer service voice? That's not me. I have a couple of friends that will call me and I'm working and I'm saying, hi, na, na, na, na. And they're like, why are you talking like that? Like, girl, I'm at work, you know, so I'll get up, leave your desk, go in the bathroom, girl. You know, that but it is necessitated in order for me to assimilate to a point. And I ever, I know we always research it, research this, but we have to, yeah, because there's my opinion, there's your opinion, there's scripture that'll help us both out. There's my opinion as a professional, there's your opinion, and there's research, you know, literature reviews and you know, peer review research to inform like what it is that we say and think. But research has said that we bear a certain amount of exhaustion. Just there's a certain amount of exhaustion that we have just from walking in the world. Now we we're getting ready to focus on me this time. I'm black. Thanks for telling us we didn't know. This is news to us. Like if you if you were streaming and you didn't pick up the melanin in my voice, if you can't see us and you're on the airways and the byways, I am fully melanated. PSA. PSA. We're black. We're black. Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

So now that I've said that, I believe that sometimes when I try to advocate for that or try to get someone to see me, it is uncomfortable. That's hard, man. That is it's uncomfortable for non-minority uh people because sometimes um, okay, if they're not culturally sensitive and aware, they're like, who cares? Get back in your place. I don't care what you have, right? Um, if they are very culturally compassionate and they feel certain levels of guilt.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

So when I show up as my black self, uh, a lot of times I'm trying to, well, I have seconds to figure out which one it is. So my response is appropriate. And then um there's a certain amount of black fatigue that comes along with having to care for a culture that oppresses me. So, in other words, even a lack of intent does not negate harm. Right. So, my suggestion now, this is not, I'm pretty sure I can find some research on, you know, you all can I can always do that work, but this in this moment, I just want to be a black woman. Even in trying to do that, even in trying to say, let's find some research, I feel like I'm proving that my lived experience is valid. I got to go get you some receipts.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Right. Then you'll still probably argue with me.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Right anyway. People say gonna be like, well, no, not really, right? So I just um wanna create space in the month of July as we talk about these topics. And here's the other thing. As soon as I said the month of July, let me do it, let me do it for in real life. I was like, a piece of me was like, I get so tired of having one month. I got February as an African American, you know, now I got July. Like, what does it look like for us to bring awareness to the conversation in July? But can we sit down around the table and it be okay for me to have my lived experience and not have to stuff it back in the box because it makes people uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yeah. And I want to say this like while you were talking, I was thinking about it. I guess like if I take my provider hat off, that's what we're doing this episode of the stuff. That's what we're doing. We're being people.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

So in the comments, we're we're being people. We're just being people.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

So talk to us like we're people. So what I would say is my reality doesn't cancel out yours. I love that. So very okay for me to say this dynamic in these environments not only make me uncomfortable, but made my mom, my grandmother, my grandfather make us as a culture uncomfortable. And for you to say, I don't get it, and for us to both be right.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

And for us to be able to start dialogue and conversation, me saying that there are portions of these environments that carry an undertone of racism is not a pointed target at you. Yeah. Because some of that you don't know you doing. Right. It's socialization. I believe it's socialization. I think a lot of times, like you said, I want to be able to talk about it out of February. I want to be able to talk about it out of July. I think a lot of times what I would really love as a Christian is to be able to come to other Christians from different backgrounds and to be able to say, listen, I don't get it, but God requires that I love you and that I pursue you in that love. Right. And that I try to find some compassionate understanding for you.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

And so I don't have to get it. It's never happened to me. But just because something has never, I didn't actually literally be put on a cross either. Right. But I really am really, really able to sympathize with Jesus' pain. When I read the Garden of Gethsemane, I can feel his pain. I can honor his pain without saying, one time I had pain too.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Or without saying, well, you know past the pain. You know what I'm saying? We're past that. That's old stuff. That's right. I can look at somebody else's pain and say, okay, you get to hold that pain. And even though I don't understand it, because we are brothers and sisters in Christ, I'm gonna stand with you. I understand it.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

I believe one of the um most moving um visuals I saw that we can um offer if you've never uh seen the video, it's by Melanie Hudson. It's color brave or colorblind. Just put in that color brave or colorblind. Color nope, it's colorblind or color brave. Melanie Hudson, just put it in. It is a TED Talk. I listened to that TED Talk and was so moved because for years people would say, I'm colorblind, I'm colorblind, I'm colorblind. And I finally came, I didn't never knew what I there was some angst in it for me, but I was like, at least they're trying. So that particular TED Talk really brought me in the space of saying, when you say you're colorblind, that really means you don't see me. Because if you're blind to my melanin, then you're blind to being with me in the experience, then that means you're gonna be blind in your treatment of me.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

And I'm then still gonna have to come back like and apologize. And this is where I am. I just popped my lips.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

I guess so. That's what that's what I happened. That's what I had heard.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

That's what I had heard. We just gonna leave that in there because if you know, you know. You Google everything.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

You can chat GPT, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

There's racism still, do whatever you need to do. I'm not asking you to understand me. I'm not even asking you to undo it. I'm just asking you to be with me and allow me to be in the fullness of who I am without an explanation, without and listen, I'm okay with you because you we're gonna talk about this the next episode to go. I know I'm okay because I'm appropriated on the regular, and that's part, you look like no, you know how you see something happening, you want to say that's a long for the ride. But that's what's coming up out of the recesses of myself. Yeah, I know I'm okay with multi-color uh with with um mainstream society because I'm appropriated on a regular.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

I'll say that, like you said, talking as a person, I think that those types of spaces put you in a space where you feel like you're only good for use. And so when we go back into that therapy space of okay, I know that the Lord for me, I know the Lord has vision for me, just like he does for everybody else, the word stands true, but then kind of coming to that space of being like, okay, who am I when I am not somebody who's just simply useful, yeah, good for use. And I think that that is as a black woman, I think the reason that we're so degreed, another one of the reasons is because it gives us purpose in and of our own right. It gives us a way to find to have our advocacy and it gives us the power to be able to open doors and do things that we want to do. Um, there are some things like I can't sit on this couch without the degrees, although I've seen a many of of uh mental health coaches and gurus with nothing but a 20-minute certificate online that are able to do that. I can't do that. I've got to go do my work.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I don't have the privilege to do that.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

I don't have the privilege to do that. So I I feel like when you think of it from that perspective, um, but the biggest challenge for us is, and I feel this so deeply, is we are the highest degrees, and we are um, you know, at the top of the market right now, career market, but we're also one of the highest in stress, anxiety, depression, high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes. I keep going. Um we we do it at the cost of our mind and bodies. I do it at the cost of doing it. Yeah, I do it at the cost of my mind or body. Like when I was getting that degree, did I always eat well? Did I sleep well?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Did I take care of my family? Did I work harder than my counterparts? Did I have to work harder in my program? And did I have to, you know, jump through like different hoops in my program? These are just they're just truths. They are. And then are we still talking about it in 2026? We are. I'll be about it. It wasn't even that long ago.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

People will be like, it's super long ago, and I'll be like, that was my my mom was there. My grandma was there, like literally, literally, though, like literally in Alabama during the civil rights movement. Like, this is not like my great-great-great-great-great-great uncle Joe twice removed. I don't know. Yeah, like this is literally like my grandparents. We were there, you know what I'm saying? You guys were my parents and my grandparents were there.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

And I was in Alabama, so Alabama was the last state uh for segreg uh for um integration. They were like, we ain't doing it. Right. Like they had to send the whole National Guard down there. So we were you remember that?

SPEAKER_03 20:48

I do remember, but people be putting it in black and white photos like it was in 1902. Right. I'm like, that just happens like 30, 40, I it's like 60 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Like if you think generations, generations are 10 years deep, right? And so you're you're talking only four generations removed, right? If you will.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

But I think people put the pin at slavery. They don't really focus on the the Jim Crow era and they don't really focus on what happened in the civil rights era. Like there's the we didn't just like one day like abolish slavery and then it was like all new better. And I think people do like to kind of put the pin there, which doesn't also like when we talk about people's stigma for as black people for mental health and mistrust of doctors, we don't talk about the experimentation on black people and medicine and all of those things. And because of that, there was a learned mistrust of doctors, providers, and therapists for survival sake.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

We don't talk about the Jim Crow that still exists in redlining.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yeah, that part, but that's a whole nother conversation on another day.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

That's the same conversation conversation. But anyway, we're gonna end it there.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

But I think that's it's I think it's it's so relevant to therapy because when you think about my mental and emotional health. Correct. And you you think about for black people, because of some of those things, therapy wasn't the first line of defense. The church was. God was because and the church was also the first line of defense in the civil rights movement. They were who were leading the church. It was the Christian, African American men and women did a lot of the mobilization in that in that movement. It's still that today. And it's still that today. It's still that today. And so, you know, and I think that comes into the conversation, and we'll touch on it and we'll get off of it when we talk about black church versus white church, and people say there's no black church and there's no white church. And then multi- and having multi-dentional non-denominational churches.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And I'm gonna end it on this. I think it's it's incumbent on the um um multicultural, non-denominal churches to really kind of nail this thing.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Right? Because if not, and this is my lived experience, if you do not, then you will repeat some of the marginalization, right? Even in your calling of giftings and your calling of different things, and I want to help somebody, anybody, and you come in the content, uh content, uh comments if you're a theologian. I am no theologian, but as a layperson, when I read my Bible, I don't see the ministry as help, helps as part of the five-fold ministry. But I promise you, sometimes it's treated like it is. You're called to help. That's not one of the fivefold ministries. Now, you may have a disposition to be helpful, you bet, but to to call it as though it is a positionality that is divinely called coined, that when you read the the different fivefold ministries, that's that's that's not one of them. And that's that's that's just that. I think some of that is systemic too. But we'll just leave that part one being.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

I wonder if there's a research study on that.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Oh, if there's not, you you could do one. Were you gonna send me to a lit review? No, I'm curious because I think that that's something that like I do have some work that I don't want to say because like when I you when you say it, you put it in the airways that belong to everybody at every time. But I do believe there's some parallels out there between the transatlantic slave trade and how we posture people within the faith-based community. And but I listen, I just need to finish my summer courses, get a little bit of time on my hands, run me a few lit reviews, and let's talk about it. But let's talk about it from a peer-reviewed hermeneutical way.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

So it won't be my opinion. So by the time I come back at it, it won't be my opinion, it'll be hermeneutically sound. That's my intent. But I say yes, but I can't say yes, because I'm a qualitative researcher and I have to let the themes be emergent. Right. And so there we go. We flip right back into we'll end on our on our professional brains. But I can't separ I can't separate myself. I'm all things, I am intersectional, and that's what's being addressed in the month of July. I am black, I am a woman, I am a Christian, I am a mom, I am a sister, I'm all the hats that I have to bring together into one place, not bifurcated, but put together. What I mean by bifurcated, I don't live all these separate dual lives. I come in one package, want to be seen fully, love fully, and able to live my black experience fully. Please and thank you.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Okay, I'm into it. Listen, I'm into it. We're gonna keep talking about this in the next episodes. We're gonna get down into some specific therapeutic strategies for what to do to prevent yourself from suppressing your emotions and suppressing your mental health as you navigate racial tensions in your world and in your life.