Living Alone as a Man: Boundaries, Anger, and Building Real Connection

Loneliness is hitting men hard — but you’re not stuck with it. In this episode, therapist Tim Wienecke (LPC, LAC) talks with Atlanta-based counselor Phillip Quinones, M.S., LPC about living alone without feeling isolated, using anger as a boundary signal, and building the kind of community that actually supports you. 

Show notes & links: www.americanmasculinity.com

 Guest site: https://pqcoachingandconsulting.com/

Key takeaways:
 • Loneliness is a real health risk — and there are specific, doable ways to counter it
 • Anger is information: a boundary cue that can also mask fear/shame
 • Talking ≠ processing — add skills so conversations lead to change
 • Money stress can mimic/trigger depression — get practical support
 • Progress beats perfection for sustainable motivation
 • Status symbols won’t fill you; presence and people will

Chapters:
 0:00 Intro & Phillip’s background
 3:00 Loneliness in modern America
 5:00 Men’s friendships, self-esteem, and boundaries
 7:00 How men and women often connect differently
 11:00 Boundaries + anger: “the bouncer”
 15:00 Why schools rarely teach emotional skills or finance
 22:00 Talking vs processing (and how to practice)
 31:00 Money stress, depression, and adjustment responses
 37:00 Progress > success: motivation that lasts
 44:00 Culture, status symbols, and real fulfillment
 50:00 Accountability & building a ramp to change
 59:00 Closing empowerment: “Nobody was you…”

References cited:
 Surgeon General (2023) loneliness advisory: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf

Pew (2023) friendship patterns: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/12/what-does-friendship-look-like-in-america/

Ryan & Deci — Self-Determination Theory: https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2000_RyanDeci_SDT.pdf

Dittmar et al. (2014) materialism & well-being: https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/2014_DittmarBondHurstKasser_PPID.pdf

CTA: If this resonated, follow the show and share it with a friend living solo.
 Disclaimer: Educational content, not therapy. If you’re in crisis, seek local professional help.

The American Masculinity Podcast™ is hosted by Timothy Wienecke — licensed psychotherapist, Air Force veteran, and men’s advocate.
Real conversations about masculinity, mental health, growth, and how men can show up better — as partners, leaders, and friends.
We focus on grounded tools, not yelling or clichés. If you have questions or want a tool for something you're wrestling with, leave a comment or send a message — your feedback shapes what we build next.
Note: While this doesn’t replace therapy, it might help you notice something worth exploring. 

Transcript

0:00

How do you live single well and without loneliness, and what changes it when you redefine success based on progress instead of perfection? If you want the answer to those questions, you're in the right place. I wasn't making money. I was disappointed in myself all the time. It's the end that they talk about like, Hey, when you do these things, this is where you're gonna be. And they start measuring success as opposed to improvement. Our relationship is only based on the thing, but do you like me? Who are they building a relationship with? My name's Tim Winneke. I'm a licensed clinician with 10 years of experience helping men, veterans, first responders build more fulfilled lives. And this is American masculinity. Our guest today is Philip Quinones. He's a licensed clinician out in Atlanta who specializes in helping people with just these problems. And our conversation was really interesting because our perspectives and way we treat these problems. Differ and the conversation is really gonna help you give some informed options on what to move in your life to live better. I hope it's helpful. While you're listening to our conversation, just think about the things that you might change, how you determine success, and who you might connect with to better live and live Well, we'll talk about it at the end. I'll see you there. Hey Philip, man. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, Tim. Glad to be here. Uh, so we were talking a little bit about, uh, being clinicians and, and helping the guys we help. Uh, can you tell the audience a little bit about what you do and where you're getting the knowledge that we're about to be benefited from? Yeah, absolutely. So my professional job, if I had to summarize it in one sentence, is I help human beings process change. So you do families and couples as well? Yeah. You consider the same thing, so when you're a couple on paper, you're considered a family. Yes. Yeah, man, that's gotta change the work dynamic quite a bit. Mm-hmm. I like when people can straddle that fence. I can't, as a clinician, man, I'm, I'm too east coast. I take sides. I'd be terrible in a room full of family members or a couple. Mm-hmm. But I always like that perspective for the whole systems. Yes. And I, I think that kind of leads in pretty well to the conversation that I was hoping to have with you about it. So we both work with guys and the loneliness epidemic is huge. Mm-hmm. The amount of guys that are just struggling on how to connect, who to connect with and what kind of things they need to do, so mm-hmm. Is. Bigger than it's ever been in our country's history. And so what are you seeing guys come in struggling with loneliness? Like what is, what are the things that are really leaning in and helping'em to combat that low loneliness without losing their independence? Even before we get to how that person is kind of interacting and going about their socialization with other human beings, we have to look at their relationship with themselves. And a lot of times clients are coming in with. Lower self-esteem, pretty poor boundaries, and very low in assertiveness for themselves and how those things relate to other people. And it could be a client that's 16 years old as an adolescent face, or it could be a 16-year-old man, like they're having troubles with low self-esteem, poor boundaries, and lacking assertiveness and. What that leads to is a isolation from people because there is, I guess, a scrutiny or I guess a social practice that for men cross-culturally have to figure it out on their own. And pull yourself up by your own bootstraps or that you don't need the assistance. And if you do, you're not considered a man. But then there are people that do humble themselves and say, Hey, look, I need help in this type of way. And going to my barber, chilling with my bros in the gym on a basketball court on the field is fun. But, or, but it doesn't necessarily attend to. What my struggle is internally, and I am very honored that when there is a man that comes to my office and then seeks those services that they are. Starting to want to be more in tune with themselves about that, and it's very much relatable as well as I've had my own bouts with it as well and come into becoming very self-assured about myself as I have grown and able to then give that back to the client, but then also utilize therapeutic interventions to help facilitate that for themselves. Yeah, I see the same thing. The, the lack of assertiveness is always really unfortunate because it ends up with really polar responses to boundaries. Mm-hmm. And that, that gets really confusing for their communities and the people in their life because they're fine, they're fine, they're fine, and then they're blowing up. All because they aren't using a scaled boundary where like, Hey, I don't like that. It would help me out if you didn't do it. They don't. They wait to say something until they can't take it anymore. And I think the conversation around different kinds of community coming together to brace some of that isolation is key. I think when people think of, I want to not be single or I wanna be single, what they really mean is I want to be alone or not alone. And that isn't what being single should be. It should be connected to that community. You should have those guys you can go talk to. You should have that barbershop you can go sit into. Mm-hmm. Even if it's not clinical, you need people to reflect off of, to feel yourself. And you can't do that on a discord, and you can't do that in front of a TV at home. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or, or, or live on call of Duty. Yeah. You know? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that is true. I think to go along with that, men. Are more prone to connect over things, whereas women are better at connecting and need more emotional socialization. Men connect over things and so. I think sometimes what we maybe struggle with is that our relationship is only based on the thing, and so it's like, well, we both like the Lakers. We both like Ronaldo, we like certain type of music, we like certain type of cars, and we like watches and all this type of stuff. But do you like me? And one of the questions is, who are they building a relationship with? Because. They can build a relationship with the person you're trying to socialize with, with the thing by themselves that doesn't necessarily correlate with them building a relationship with you. And so who are you? You are this vulnerable, this human with. Feelings and thoughts and behaviors and conditions and struggles. And if you're not bringing that to the table, not saying that you don't maybe feel fulfilled in those other areas that you're connecting with other people with, but when you're feeling that loneliness, it's because you're not getting fulfilled in the areas of life that are more invaluable compared to the tangible things that you're connecting on. And so. You know, you kind of bring that to the table where it's like, okay, we don't have to start with a random person to say, Hey, I have all these struggles and all these baggages, and I've been through this and I've been through that. No, that would make people uncomfortable as you bring it to the table. As you form the relationship and as time you can expose that, but maybe it starts with your parents. Maybe it starts with your significant other. Maybe it starts with maybe that one or two coworkers that, yes, outside of professional boundaries, you still have more of a type of friendship with and kind of partnership. Or maybe it is your barber or maybe it is that person that you're consistent with with com, with socializing over the things that means you feel safe in some type of way, and so you kind of encourage that. With the ambivalence of clients and explore their beliefs and values over things. And one of the things that we know as clinicians is that if they're coming to our office, they want to change something because we did not go pull them from their house and say, Hey, do you want to come to therapy and change yourself? No. You consciously or unconsciously want to change something, and that's where we kind of explore it and give it a try as time goes on. I, I like the frame that you talked about of all the different people that they might connect with. The adage that always comes to my mind in these moments is men tend to bond side to side, where women tend to bond face to face. Mm. Oh, that's a good one. And so, yeah, good one. Like, and I think what happens is, is it gets normalized for guys to go do the thing, but not have the conversation. Mm. Yes. And so what I tend to find, it's always kinda funny. I get a guy in, he's got a hobby and he is got buddies that are in that hobby. He comes in, he does his work, he starts slowly opening up to the guys around him there, and all of a sudden, two more of those guys from that group are calling me to come in and do some work now. Mm-hmm. That they've seen somebody else connect. Mm-hmm. And so I, I think it's accepting that before you can connect out into the world. You need some activities and things that you can do that you feel like you either add value to or is in alignment with your values. Mm-hmm. I, I understand that. I think the way that I use boundaries as well, because I work with men with substance abuse and addictions. Mm-hmm. And so one of the things I bring to the table as a metaphor is that boundaries are the lock inside of the door. The lock is not on the outside of the door. So you decide through the people, through your ring, through, um, the screen door, who you let into, what things mm-hmm. The differences. Is that there are a lot of things with inside your house or inside, inside your domain that you are not comfortable with and aware of. So when people, I guess, provoke or those poor people maybe want to exploit that boundary, or sometimes life is just kicking your butt, you blame it on other things and other people. But the real. Change that can happen in the implementation of the boundary is you exploring what's on the inside, because again, you control the lock so nobody can make you feel or do. Anything, and that's really hard for us to realize as human beings across a spectrum. So if you're reacting and not responding, if you're saying, Hey, I can let them in on this, but not this, but you're getting in a negative display of emotions or a negative feeling all the time with that, it means that it, your body and your mind is probably trying to say, Hey, you need to attend to this. Because you wanna put it out there, you want to protect it. You just don't even know what it is you want to put out there and what you're protecting. And so we explore that together. Hey man, what is making you angry? Not everything that makes you angry. What is making you isolate? What is making you feel depressed? Because not everything is responsible for that. And it's a very, you know, kind of overbearing thing for people. But then when you break it down with somebody, you start to say, okay, I'm looking at the whole pie. And Phil, or my therapist, or whoever, my coach, my mentor, whoever it is. Is looking at, no, we just need to look at a piece of it, not the whole thing. And that's what I kind of help with it, you know, so I, I, I get that. Um, but yeah, a lot of men are having very poor boundaries with stuff. And again, that metaphor is very simple. And then we walk through what is it? What are boundaries? Because it means something you value, it's important, or maybe it's something you don't want to share with everybody. And then how do we manage that together? That's a really good summation of how to connect without losing your independence. Mm-hmm. If you can't have boundaries and you don't understand the things you value, you're gonna let people move around in your space without any direction. Mm-hmm. And that means to develop that, you're gonna have to learn to listen to that anger. Because your anger's your bouncer, right? Your anger is like, I need a boundary right now. And so every time your anger, something's happening that you don't want to have happen. Mm-hmm. So what are you gonna do about it before you have to pop off, before your anger is leading instead of informing? Mm-hmm. And I think that's a really beautiful way to frame it, is with the mindfulness, with the self-awareness and the values to then go and connect in the world. Mm-hmm. Because if you don't have those, I think that's why so many young guys end up. In really vulnerable positions, they end up with the wrong people. Mm-hmm. Is because they don't, they didn't take the time or they didn't have anybody guide them on how to find those boundaries. Mm-hmm. And then got wrapped up in a community that that wasn't good for them. Mm. And that's where we find, like, you know, somebody guys falling into substance abuse, somebody has falling into different kinds of dangerous activities that they shouldn't be doing. Mm-hmm. So I think that's, I think that's a really good frame and I'm glad to hear you're doing that out in the world. Yeah, absolutely. I, I can agree with you on that. It's something that's not taught in school, like a subject. You know, taxes, investing in finances and relationship and emotional regulation aren't things that are taught in our school curriculum. These are things that you hope from a parental standpoint are implemented to your child, and so I think we do that. Pretty decently with children, but as they start to be in those other stages, um, of their growth, and especially even continuing as a man in just general life, it's not necessarily, um, as curious by people anymore. And to me, that's why we have to identify what these triggers are because. Again, not everything triggers you. Not everything makes you angry. You could be disappointed, you could be annoyed. You could be at fear, you can be shocked, you can be sad. Like let's identify that anger is just a, like you said, a bouncer. It is a response or more of a reaction to something that hurts you. So what? Hurts you, and it could be something somebody said, something that is done to you, something in the past, something that's present, but it's probably something that, again, your body and your mind is telling you to attend to. And when we look at a pattern in life, usually. It's very rare that somebody had one thing in one moment that caused this type of reaction. No, because we've all been angry in different times and from different things. So there's probably a pattern of specific things that we can dissect and pull from and say, based on this principle and based on the action that you took because of your anger, what is the root cause of this? And hopefully the more informed we are, it's like. I kind of use the metaphor as there's a difference between a shooter and a sniper. A shooter is just somebody who just sh shoots and thinks that the bullets are gonna hit that their target and maybe that they're due. But with me, when you work with me, you are a sniper. You are a trained person to stay in one position for hours no matter what the condition is because you want to. Precisely have a target of what that one shot is going to then produce. That is what we're aiming for, and so I'm very specific about what it is we're going to work on, and if anger is the emotion that we're gonna work on, we're gonna go. All in on what this may be like. So the more information, the more we extract, the more, um, examples and processing we do specifically with that emotion, the better that any man can be able to manage it. I think the, the language around it is really important. So the, I think the reason why so many men, when you ask 'em how they feel, they say angry for any emotion that is uncomfortable. Mmm. Is because they, like, when I grew up, certainly men weren't said, weren't told. That's a man expressing this emotion. That's a man experiencing this emotion. Mm-hmm. It was always, he's angry, he's happy, and that was all we really got. Yeah. So you didn't have anybody to model off of. Right. And, and so the big thing with healthy emotional processing is, is learning the breadth of your emotional responses. Mm-hmm. Are you angry or are you disgusted? Are you sad or are you lonely? Mm-hmm. And understanding those distinctions within yourself. And it's not easy. It takes time, it takes effort. I really love the simple tool, like the emotion wheel right from DBT. Yeah, absolutely. Like those kind of skills are really helpful. So the, the healthy emotional processing that guys need is that. Being able to sit in like that sniper position like you were talking about before I act, I need to know where I'm going and what I'm doing, and sometimes that means being in yourself and being uncomfortable. And there's two things that make that really difficult. Everything in society right now. Means you don't have to do that. Even if you're alone, you can just jump on a game. You can jump on your phone. Mm-hmm. You can jump in front of a screen. Yeah. You do not have to be inside yourself. Mm-hmm. And because that's the lowest, uh, or the lowest bar to entry coping. Right. It's the easiest thing to get to for most people. Mm-hmm. It's where the coping tends to stop. Mm. And so. Learning how to meter that. Like I, the big thing is, is that I've never tried to get a guy to completely screen detox or anything like that. I don't think that's reasonable in a professional world. Mm-hmm. Right? Like if you're looking for a job, if you're loading a nett, this is where people are doing that. But learning how to use it to come in and out of your exploration. So if you're a guy who, like you're always angry and you're feeling that anger and you don't know what to do with it, but you can sit with it for five minutes. Just five minutes, two minutes, whatever it is, whatever the amount of time that you can take, exploring that anger before you get overwhelmed and then sure man, then go play Call of Duty. You take out the anger on some nobe, right? Fine. But then you come back to it and maybe next time it's two and a half minutes. Yes. And then maybe next time it's three minutes. And I think that's where guys get really on themselves. Because they look at where they are and they can't imagine being somewhere effective. So how do you help guys through that learning period where they're really on themselves, they know. They know they're not where they wanna be inside themselves, but they're just overwhelmed with how new this changes, how hard this change is. Yeah, it's something they don't even think outside of. Maybe when they have taken actions within that experience of that emotion that they've had very poor and bad consequences. So they're like, okay, now I need to make a change. But for most people, they're not even aware that there needs to be a change at all. I think for myself, something I often say for everybody is a feeling is just a feeling. And a thought is just a thought. It can be as intrusive, wild, crazy, provocative, evil, chaotic, non-logical. It's just a thought like it's just in your head. And then a feeling is just a feeling. And so it doesn't mean because you have feelings and thoughts that you have to act on them at all. And so it's like you said, sitting with yourself and saying, well. The more mindful I am about what I'm thinking about and what I'm feeling, the more of, I guess, my temperament, I can deal with it. But again, you go so fast on trying to cope with it or pretty much avoid it. Buy your substances, buy video games, buy porn, buy. Sometimes being addicted to weightlifting. It can be isolation like or, or even drinking. Like you just go out to try to avoid it, to cope with it. And what you are trying to do, the work here now is be able to sit with that and process that. So. I utilize a lot of different examples with people, and I draw from how they learn, and that's something that you don't ask very often as a teacher or a coach, or even as a therapist, which I think people should is well, how do you learn? Because you can learn by doing something, you can learn by listening to it, or you can learn by hearing it. And some people are like, wow, nobody's ever asked me how do I learn? Because again, if I'm teaching one way that you're not necessarily receiving. It's not gonna work. So do you need to listen to this? Okay. Do you need to watch this? Or, Hey, do we need to do something in order for you to learn about it? And when it comes to processing, I have to distinguish with a lot of people the difference between talking. Processing talking. It is us talking about why LeBron is better than Michael Jordan in the barbershop and we can go from statistics. The nineties, the bulls, it was tougher. Defense rules, hand checking to LeBron, 17 years old, 23 years in the league, four championships, carry the team Miami, the decision and coming back to Cleveland and to go, that's just talk. And I could still think you're wrong. Right? You know, that's just talking Processing is saying really. What is my body going through and what am I feeling about those things? Because a feeling is just your body's response to the experience that is around you because we have cognition and we're able to utilize language to then interpret based on most people's common responses to an experience that there is a, a label. To that. Yeah. So when I touch that puppy for the first time, when I fall in love with this woman or this man, or I am going on my first, first rollercoaster ride or the first lick of ice cream, I'm happy and I'm joyful. Whereas the first time I fell down on my bike, the first time that I had my first breakup, the first time that, you know, you got detention or you got a punishment, or you got a whooping. It sucks. It's negative, it's depressing. You're angry, you're upset, you're sad, you're hurt. So the point is saying that is processing that. Go back into those things that you have compartmentalized a lot because you dealing with the, the. Aftermath of those things just aren't benefiting you, and it leads to continu, continuous feelings of anxiousness. It leads to a lot of apprehensiveness. It leads to continued low self-esteem. It can lead to depression. It can lead to isolation. And those things, as we know, the more somebody is confided within those spaces and those continuous feelings, usually your bodies and your mind's response is gonna adapt to that. And you're probably not having the best experience that you could have as a human being. And so it's very hard to get somebody to go forward. But it's also kind of like asking questions of. What would happen if we stay here? What would happen if we continue to respond like this? What would happen if we continue to have this mindset? What would we continue if we have this type of, um, cognitive distortion or this way of thinking? What happens if we don't have the conversation with that woman? So your guidance with them gets to be that like. I'm gonna dive in with you and we're gonna process, we're not gonna talk about it. We're gonna go into the why's. We're gonna go into what's happening to you now, and we're gonna go into where these came from. Yeah. And through that exploration, understanding, it's going to fundamentally change how they respond to it. Mm-hmm. And that's the, that's the approach that works for you. Yeah. At least give them the motivation to do it. So, yeah. You know, it's almost kind of like I say. I can give you as much information about yourself when we can go all the way from Freud all the way up to modern day therapy. It does not matter if it was starting with your parents or it's starting with what, what, who you're around right now. You have to do something about this. Like you have to do something. You have to take an action. You have to do a behavior. So we can talk about it and process all day long, but we have to do something. It's the balance, right? Mm-hmm. I, I think this is the, this is that sniper moment, right? Mm-hmm. Of I'm waiting for my shot. I'm looking for my shot a note, but I learn what I'm looking for so I can take it. Yes, absolutely. And so processing with no action is useless. Action without processing is dangerous. Yes. And so finding the balance there. I think the way that I, I like to frame it out for guys is I really like DB TLF for just tools, man. It's like a crayon simple book, right? Mm-hmm. Of different things you can do when it's hard. But the frame that's worked for most guys is. Almost every adult has one of three avenues that they know how to cope in. Either they know how to kinda like ride their thoughts, right? I'm a logical person. I can think my way through things pretty well. They can ride their emotional process. Look, I can't always articulate what's going on, but I trust my gut. I'm a gut guy. I know where my gut's going and I follow it and I do okay. Or they're a body and behavior guy. Mm-hmm. Look, I can't tell you why I feel bad, but I can tell you I feel better after going to the gym. Yes. Yes. Right? And what I find is if you meet guys there and acknowledge, Hey man, this is where you're good. You're showing up with some know-how here. Mm-hmm. On how to process this way. The reason you're coming to me is it's not enough. Yes. So now we're gonna step outside of your normal. We're gonna step outside of where you felt comfortable coping and processing and go into one of the other two to round out your skill sets so you have a better idea of what's going on and can ground through it. And I think for guys that can't get to therapy, if they can't get to a guide like you or me. That's what I would encourage them to do. If you're having a hard time sitting there with it, if you're having a hard time processing on your own, Google different ways to do it emotionally. Do it different ways to do it physically or do it different ways to cognitively or think your way through. Mm-hmm. Depending on where you're starting. So if you were gonna help a guy figure out which of those three they were good at, like which one are they already bringing to the table, what would you do? I take a holistic approach to clients because even if we're looking at the psychological and mental aspect of the service that you're wanting to receive, we need to look at everything that might be affecting this. So we're gonna look at, and maybe it's not down to the number, your finances. Your romantic life, your social relationships and platonic ones, your, your drinking water, your vices, maybe some type of other substance medication, sleep, nutrition, and maybe your spiritual if you are religious in that type of aspect. Mm-hmm. And then look at, well, what things scale one to 10. Everything's a 10 and it's perfect and it can't get better, and I'm okay in this area of life. And these are the areas that are not it. You break it down logically with children up into a man, it's gonna be the same type of way. And so it's saying, let's start there because if. I wasn't making money. I was disappointed in myself all the time. I'm not getting at least six hours of sleep. I'm not getting laid. I'm only eating high caloric, uh, processed high fat foods. I'm not drinking enough water and. I think mention maybe I mentioned that you're not making enough money. I think anybody would kind of be depressed and anxious about a lot of things. So Yeah, there's, that always bothers me when people frame that as a mental health problem. Right, exactly. Like a guy's living out of his car with no resources, he's not depressed, he's living in his car with no resources. Right. He needs help. It's an adjustment. Yeah. It's not and And you have depressive symptoms and anxious symptoms. It doesn't necessarily make you depressed. Yeah. So to me it's kind of like. Let's explore those avenues of where we can do with that. And then to your point of, Hey man. Strength base and looking at your, your valuables. Hey man, you're really good over here. And I've, I've had people that are six figures and some seven figure earners where it's like, Hey man, you're killing it. You're at the top of the food chain financially. Top of the SCS. You're highly educated. You manage people. You have, uh, these stock options. You are great. You have these titles and all these acronyms after your name and your LinkedIn looks amazing. But on this area of your life, it's not working. There is no correlation to that being a nine or a 10 with the areas of your life that are a five or a four or a three. And so humble yourself in some type of way to say, no, I need to attend to this. You could be in a board meeting, connect people, and uh, be on a stage and articulate yourself very well, but you have trouble communicating with your significant other when they hurt your feelings. It's not the same. Like I wanna make sure we don't get lost from that moment in time where you're talking about if you're looking at all the aspects of your life and critical pieces that you need are missing. It's not gonna be about an emotional process. Mm-hmm. It's gonna be about action. Like if you don't have the money to buy the food that you need to buy, the shelter that you need to do the things that you need to do to feel good and have the bandwidth to even figure out who you wanna be. Mm-hmm. That's your number one problem. Mm-hmm. Before we can do anything else. Mm-hmm. If you're a guy who's crushed everything on paper, financially. Like you're talking about that dude, that's just everything professionally is going his way, but his kids hate him and his wife is about to leave him. Mm-hmm. Right. Okay, man, that need, you've, we've gotta take where you're at and assess it to see where the change is gonna be. Mm-hmm. And, and I love that frame for it. I'm trying to think of how we can give that to the guys that are listening that aren't gonna have a therapist to walk it through 'em. So what were the, you said five different areas. Do you remember what they were? Like what are the assessment points? Yeah. Take a piece of paper just like I do with them, or a board or a whiteboard. Write down you and then write down those different aspects of those areas of your life. So it can be. Health, which is food, water, and sleep. And you could put sex in there too, because that's a very beneficial thing for you. It could be socially platonic, so your family relationships, your professional relationships. Your romantic relationships and the quality of that, whoever or whatever that you are in a relationship with financially. Again, there is some correlation with negative experiences being in more financial stress or struggle, and then emotionally, I would say, where you feel more emotions than others. Mm-hmm. Some men may be prone to neuroticism, which is the susceptibility to negative emotions than others. It could be you get depressed during the winter. You can say that when you look at it. Yeah. I haven't been working out as much, and that means I'm not, my body's not. Getting good quality sleep. And that's why I'm irritated and angry all the time. And when my wife drops that last camel, uh, that, that last needle on the camel's back, it just breaks me. And I'm like, why am I reacting this way? It's a chain effect. Yeah. So just look at those areas and then do a scale of one to 10, 10 being, Hey, this is perfect and I don't need to change it. And nothing is wrong in this area of my life, but. Maybe things that are a six, five and a four that could have improvement, attend to those. And so utilize some of the attributes, characters, and variables from your strengths and see how we can, or you can attend to. Contributing that to the areas, areas of your life that you need improvement on. And that's helpful for us as professional too, because again, mm-hmm. We're not trying to fix every problem. What we're trying to do is make you have less of what you are experiencing. So I'm very transparent with every client. If you're prone to anxiety, depression, and you've been through trauma, I'm sorry. Those are things that you're going to have to manage for the rest of your life. If you need medication or continue therapy, or you find avenues in order to manage those variables, that's great. But if you come to therapy, it's not this aha healing moment. It's about if I'm at a eight. Phil helps me get down to a five. That's improvement. Mm-hmm. So that's why you have to be mindful and be able to sit in those situations because one, they're gonna come up again and maybe it's something genetically or just in your environment or just something that you're just prone to experiencing more than others. So how do you manage. That for yourself. Yeah. And that is where the improvement is coming in. Like, Phil, I'm not, I'm not isolating anymore. Hey, I'm not, you know, like you said, um, from five minutes to one minute, if you hang out with your, you're not hanging out with your buddy at all, but then you hang out once a week, great. That's huge. That's, that's improvement. Like what makes you wanna do that? Okay, now we have Friday sets that no matter what, we're gonna go watch the game and so, and so That's great. Like, what makes you wanna have that change? Hey Phil, I can't work out seven days a week, but I'm working out from no days and now I'm at the three. Great. Perfect. Awesome. Like, that's improvement, man. Like, so I, I think that what you're touching on is so important because when I hear self-help guys and I think like. You're relating to this now, right? We are clinicians. We're very good at sitting in front of somebody and kind of picking apart what they're doing with them. Mm-hmm. Because it's our job, man. It's what like, I don't know about you, man, but I get excited about it. Yeah, absolutely. I wanna get to know you. I wanna figure out what's working. It's complex. I love the complexity of human being beings, but man, it's awesome, man. I live my work, but when we step back from that. And we try to get help to guys who can't have that guide, who doesn't have that microscope. Mm-hmm. When we talk about things like, hey, these, these aspects of your life, you got your emotional health, your physical health, your social health, and your financial health. Mm-hmm. Take a look and do some assessment on that. Mm-hmm. I think so many guys can get so overwhelmed where when they write all that out and they're like, man, I'm nowhere. I have one friend, one parent that I talk to. No girlfriend, no church, no community. I've got a crap job that barely pays my bills. I can't afford good food to take care of myself. I can't afford a gym membership. I don't even know what I'm feeling. My emotions are so outta touch. I'm just associated from everything. Most of the time, I don't know what's going on. That guy struggles because when he hears these conversations from a lot of coaches, it's the end that they talk about like, Hey, when you do these things, this is where you're gonna be. Yes. And they start measuring success as opposed to improvement. Yes. And so I love how you're highlighting the need that once you get these metrics that you're building for yourself, measure improvement, don't worry so much about success. Yes. It's the only way to keep that motivation alive, otherwise it just becomes too crushing. It's absolutely crushing if you just keep setting the end goal and looking how you're not there. Yes, it's too much. It's too much. Yes. And that's what can cause the anxiety is, is the anxiety, I guess in a layman's term for people to understand is it's too far ahead into the future and then your body and your mind is reacting to it as if it were happening right now. And so you're going to make yourself anxious and very disappointed. And so I think that's why habits are more important. I think that's why, I guess, more habits your behavior guy. Like, let's go do something. Yeah. You know, are, are, are feasible. And I think that's why you have to be more informed about yourself because you have to understand your own temperament with stuff. Maybe you don't have the temperament as somebody who is a, a, I don't know, like it takes a. To measure yourself against other people is always gonna be immeasurable. Mm-hmm. Because they are them. You are you. And so the more that you say I'm not like them, the less we're able to attend to who you are. Hey man, if you don't want to do those things, you don't have to. It doesn't fulfill you. You don't have to like. You have to know where you can manage yourself within your own realm. You're not coming into your therapist's world to work. We're trying to meet you where you're at. What resources and things can you do where you're at? And then yes, can we make strives to improve those as you are? Finding more motivation and you're processing the results of the steps and actions that you took and learn from, and then have new information to dissect. So that's why we have to do something about it. And yes, for a while we're processing it and we're in that pre-contemplative contemplating stage of change, but at some point in time we have to prepare and then take action. On these things. And for most clients, once they start to see that and get a result for themselves, and again, maybe that day on the scale of one to 10, you are one less than you were that other event or time or day like or moment, then that's improvement and. Then you're able to bring that to the forefront of somebody's attention. Mm-hmm. And say, Hey man, you are making strides. It's just almost kind of like a stock where it's like, Hey, on a day-to-day basis, it can look like this, but when you zoom out. It's probably going up if it's a solid company. And so people get worried about what's it gonna look like the five, 10 years from now. Mm-hmm. But I'm saying no. What can we do on a daily basis of things that are measurable within your capacity? You're temperament and your resources to help you have less of a negative experience going forward. And I need to be, people need to be very transparent about that instead of out, instead of goal-based and outcome-based type of thinking.'cause it's just not really, it's not good in the long term. Mark. Mark Minson, the guy who wrote Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Okay, cool. I always like how he frames this man. I watch him a lot because he's done coaching forever and I'm trying to learn how he's bringing the things that we do to a broader audience. Okay. And I liked what he said about goals. He's like, goals are 50 50 as to whether they're good or not. If you have a goal that you don't meet, but you improve, and then when the juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore, you put down that goal was still an incredibly useful goal. Absolutely. Right. So if my goal is I wanna be able to bench 300 pounds, and I want to be back to the shape I was in when I was 30, running flight lines in Korea. Mm-hmm. That's a great goal to have. And that's not gonna happen. I'm 45, I'm not that dude anymore, right? Mm-hmm. But if I get out and I walk every day and I start lifting heavy and I get to my body weight again. But that's as far as I can take it. That goal of trying to achieve. Four is great, as long as I know when it's okay to put it down. Yes, as long when I've, like, now I'm in sunk cost fallacy, if I can catch that moment in time. Goals are great and I think that's where guys get stuck is they set a goal and then they beat the hell out of themselves for not meeting the goal all the way without looking at all the things the goal did for them along the way. Yes. To then reset, relook and reexamine. And the other thing is, is I like how you're talking about getting away from those goals and outcomes being the pure thing because. Life continues. Yes. There has never been an achievement in my life where I was done. Yes, there's, and I've had a number of them. I'm, I've been very lucky and I've, I've worked really hard in a lot of areas of my life. You get rest afterwards for a minute. Right. You get to consolidate that success. But even when you're, when you're awesome, life is gonna continue. And so getting into that daily improvement of like, what do I wanna do today that's gonna make my day and life better? I think that's a very simple question to start out every day with if you can. Absolutely. I think people have to consider culture as part of that, and culture is not something that is about the day of the dead for the Hispanics or single de Mayo or you know, black History Month or something like that. It's not about that type of culture. Culture. It can be. W basically where I'm learning my values and my beliefs and sometimes the American culture the most, one of the most individualistic cultures is saying that the measure objectively is to have this American dream or these type of achievements that are instilled in you. And what I say is that, okay, well how does your culture influence that? There's nothing wrong with having a number to chase. Mm-hmm. As long as that number is for something and it's not just counting status. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of guys end up where they're chasing a number out of fear. It's that one, I have this, I'll be happy. And that outcome only works when it's gone from like $20,000 a year to $80,000 a year because all of a sudden you can afford to live. That's real. After that point, if you don't have a number in mind for a specific outcome and people to take care of in a specific way, you're just kicking the can so you don't have to figure out the other thing you need to do. This goes back to taking, taking that stock initially, right? Figure out where your health is. Figure out where your your needs are. Aim for them. Have some goals. Use those goals until they stop serving. But consistently, like at least once a month, once to six months, whatever it works for you. Take a look around at that list again and see where you're at and make sure that you're moving up in a balanced way. Yes, I think that's a really good way to do it. The, A lot of guys worry about accountability, right? Like everybody, we had a whole episode on how to have grit and how to sustain it. Okay. But a lot of guys really struggle with doing it on your own. Yeah. I don't know about your take on it, but for me, that's never been how I've done things. Exactly. Never here either. Never. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I think that's hard to hear for guys that are single, where they're like, look, I don't have a partner I'm accountable to. I don't have kids that I'm trying to take care of. So what's my motivation? Build yourself a ramp. Look for smaller actions towards what you want. Yeah. And then try to do them day by day. Yes. And eventually you get there. The trick is, is like Phil's saying, if you don't take any action at all, you're making a choice, and eventually the pain of the inaction Yes. Will break you anyway. Absolutely. You have to make it obtainable for yourself because, for example, like if the goal is to drink a gallon of water a day. You are not gonna be able to drink a gallon right out of the way. Your stomach's not gonna be able to handle that. You don't know what that feels like. And when you look at it, it looks so intimidating. I gotta drink all that water like. No, start with a glass. Put it by your sink and drink it, or put it by your nightstand. Drink it right in the morning. Start with four ounces, eight ounces, 16 drink. Start. Start where you are. You know, if you want to become a millionaire, I'm sorry. It starts with the first dollar. So if you're just doing penny stocks, great. You start somewhere. Invest that first $20. That's what every millionaire that wasn't a trust fund baby started from. Like they went to say, I'm just gonna start where I'm at. I don't even care if you're, um, most people are able bodied, so if you can't afford 103, uh, a $300 month gym walk, like you, you just have to just stop 60% of the outcome for going to the gym for hours gained by just having a 30 minute walk every day. Absolutely. That stat made like, oh, I can walk like that. Made it all of a sudden reachable just knowing that. I love the passion that you're bringing to the work, man. It's, it's felt really good to hear you out in the world and learn how you're doing what you're doing, and hopefully the guys hearing this get some concrete things that they can do. Mm. Like I think you and my approaches are a little bit different. Mm-hmm. But not that far off. Yeah. And so. Is there any kind of last thing that you wanna leave the guys with? Yeah. Nobody was you. Nobody is you and nobody will ever be you. You are very lucky to have been a human being. If you're realizing for yourself that you're not having the best experience with that, then it's probably something you need to change. And it's no bodies and nothing's responsibility to obtain that outcome except for yourself. So take action, be. Give yourself grace with understanding, Hey, I can be a student at a childlike age and I can still be a student at 90 years old about things that I may not be as strong in. It doesn't make you weak. It's just you're not as strong in, and that's okay. You can learn and be able to be motivated to take them. Once you say, I need help. Somebody has solved this problem or he's done this before, I have a lot of resources to go help me with the answer, and I'm motivated to say if I stay the same, I can. The only thing that can get better than that is just trying to take the action so. What can that experience look like for you? Picture that, and then what steps can you take to go do that? And you just have to stay curious with yourself, whether it's your emotions, your thoughts, or again, those other areas of life that you can attend to. Mm-hmm. Well, I like that the reminder that everybody's path to success. There are other people that have done it that can give you a roadmap, but at the end of the day, you're gonna have to walk the steps towards it on your own. And it might be a little different. And that's okay. I think that's a really. Powerful thing to wrap up the conversation around all the different ways to do it with, especially when we're doing it for so many guys, right? Mm-hmm. Like we're, we don't know. And they need to know themselves to figure out which of these paths is gonna work for them. Right? So I think that's a, that's a wonderful frame and thanks for taking that ride with us. Yeah, absolutely. So if people were gonna find you, man, if they wanted to work with you, they wanted to see what you were doing, where would they find it? Uh, you can inquire, um, either on my website or to my email, which is on my website at pj q coaching and consulting.com. So that's PJ q coaching and consulting.com. And so you can inquire there and then I'll be able to answer you, you know, when I'm not trying to help somebody else. So. As always. Right. Well man, look, I, my favorite part about having this podcast has been connecting with other passionate guys, of course. Doing good work with guys, man. So thank you so much for coming on, and I'm really happy that you're in the world doing what you're doing. Thank you so much for having me, and that's our conversation with Philip. Hopefully his perspective and our conversation helped you redefine some success and figure out some ways to reconnect with your world while you're single. At the beginning of the episode, I asked you what are some ways that you might mark success? If you're able, let us know what some of those are, whether it's a comment or a message to me to share with the audience. We really wanna normalize the different ways that we're coming at these problems to help guys find different ways to the solutions they're looking for. So I promise you, if there's one that's working for you, it's gonna work for somebody else and seeing it is gonna help. For the fact check for the episode, there wasn't too much that needed a lot of clarification. It was mostly a conversation about our philosophies and how we help people and what we see in our clinical practices. There were a few things that are worth mentioning though. So the first one is that there are now required programs in a lot of states on social skills, financial literacy, and just life skills. A lot of the programs are still in inception and not all of 'em are getting traction, but they do exist Additionally, depression. And poverty can coexist at the same time. It's hard to parse which is which, and that's why clinical help is so useful. But it's important to acknowledge that they're going to impact each other. So it's not so much that you can't be majorly depressed when you don't have the resources you need to survive, or that because you're majorly depressed, you won't get them. It's that they have a relationship and they cross over with each other. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next time when we talk about masculine traits and how to channel 'em.