Breaking the Stigma: Mental Health, Mindset & Military Culture with Lt Col Rachel Lopez | Mindful Warrior Alliance Podcast

How do we break the silence around mental health in the military—especially in special operations? In this powerful episode of the Mindful Warrior Alliance Podcast, host Kerri Bicskei speaks with Lt Col Rachel Lopez about the unspoken struggles, cultural barriers, and mental load carried by elite service members.

Together, they explore:

• The mindset that keeps many in special ops from asking for help
• The stigma surrounding mental health in military communities
• And the steps leaders can take to build a more resilient, human-centered force

Rachel’s honesty, leadership, and lived experience make this a must-hear conversation for anyone passionate about changing the mental health narrative in uniform.

💬 If you're navigating stress, burnout, or silence—this episode might just be the permission you’ve been waiting for.

🎙️ Listen now, and let’s start rewriting the story.

🧠 Mental health in the military matters—and so does your voice.
If this conversation with Lt Col Rachel Lopez resonated with you, share it with someone in your unit, your circle, or your command. Let’s normalize talking about the unseen battles.

🌐 Need support? Visit mindfulwarrioralliance.org to access free mental health counseling and fertility support for military members and their families.

💪 Stand with us. Follow, subscribe, and leave a review to help amplify these conversations—and help us reach more warriors who need to hear they’re not alone.

Transcript

 Whether you're navigating deployment, fertility treatments, or just trying to stay grounded, you're in the right place.

  I am so excited to have my guest on today. She is a personal friend of mine. She's also a badass lieutenant colonel

I will let her kind of give her own introduction. , Lieutenant Colonel Rachel Lopez, welcome to the podcast. Hey, Carrie, thank you so much. I'm super, super, super excited to do this. And just talking about mindsets and talking about anything related to athletes so I I'm, I'm very honored to be here. I feel like I'm the one that's,  in a good spot. Yeah. Oh, I'm happy to have you. I'm so happy to have you. Rachel and I actually, without  knowing what she did or what she was all about, any of her background, we just met on the beach playing beach volleyball, which was so much fun.

And then later I learned about her experience within the, you know, at McDill within the special operations community. And we've just gotten a chance to hang out and get to know each other. And she's such a big proponent of mental health and she's always working on games with her own mental performance.

And so I knew she'd be just the perfect person to do this, you know, Memorial Day talking about military mental health . So yeah. I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you. Yay. So why don't you tell everybody a little bit about what you do here within the special operations community, what your role is, and just your entry into the military.

Like what did that look like for you? Okay, sure. Um, so I work at, uh, SOCOM headquarters, special Operations Command Headquarters, and I work in the Intelligence directorate. I'm the Acquisition Intelligence branch chief, which means that I, I look at threats to our acquisitions throughout development when they first become an idea to when they're disposed of.

So I've been at SOCOM for about nine years, and, but I've been in special operations for probably close to 14 years. Wow. And, um, my family wasn't military. My parents weren't military. I didn't come to Mil military town. So, Honestly, when I went to college, I thought that everybody was in the army and I didn't even know that there were different branches.

So I since learned that that is not the case. Yeah. And uh, I actually came in totally into the military kind of by accident. I, I really wanted to be a helicopter pilot, but I was one of those kids that kind of wanted to be a little bit about everything. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to be a firefighter, a physical therapist, and a helicopter pilot.

Lots of interest. Somehow I was supposed to make that happen. And, uh, fortunately for me, my parents said, Hey, it's not a matter of where you're, or that you're going to school. It's a matter of you just pick where. Yeah. So I was fortunate enough to have parents that were very supportive in my going to school and pursuing, you know, an academic career, which is why I focused on Okay, to be a firefighter, to be a captain, I have to have a college degree.

Right. To be a helicopter pilot. Um, well, I don't really need a degree, but it'll probably help down the road somehow. And to be a physical therapist, uh, I would definitely need a degree. So, I focused on exercise science for my physical therapy. I always kind of had a way of having multiple, um, options. So A, B, C, X.

Yeah. Which I've since kind of changed that focus. But anyway, back to your, your question about my journey. So I went into r o otc actually, actually kind of by accident because I was like, oh, I wanna be a helicopter pilot. And I ended up talking to a guy that was taking the, all the same classes I was, except he was in RO O T C because he wanted to be a pilot.

And I was like, oh, that's cool. I wanna be a pilot too, right? While I'm in physical therapy exercise science classes. Yeah. And he said, well, come talk to the recruiter with me. And I was like, ah, I don't know. Like I, I, I think maybe next semester I'll, I'll try that. And he said, no, just, just come on. He was very persistent.

So I, he's like, what could it hurt just to talk? Well, as I'm sitting through the, the presentation with the recruiter, the, the captain said, Oh, well, he's slipping through slides and he said, oh, well, we'll just skip over the special operations slide because you'll never get to do that. Oh. And I was like, okay.

Oh, okay. Nope. Uh, challenge, right? And then said, oh, you're studying exercise science? Uh, yeah. You'll never be a pilot because you don't have a technical or engineering degree. And I was like, Hmm. This isn't really going the way I thought it would. Yeah. And then the third thing he said was, women don't really do as well in as the men in Uhoh in the military.

And I was like, just in general, I, I feel like you're testing me. Wow. So I actually said, where, where do I sign up? Because really, I, I, I think I just more wanted to put, prove him wrong than I did wanting to, to pursue my career as a helicopter pilot. Wow. But long story short, I used kind of that negative.

Reinforcement and it, it actually drove me to pursue my dream of becoming a pilot at the time. And I was the only person in my class, only cadet in my class to get a pilot slot. So I proved him wrong there because I was going to pilot training with an exercise science degree and being female and the only, not only female, but the only person.

So that was a huge, it was a huge win for me. One that I, and mostly just that I had proved him wrong. It wasn't even, and I wasn't even feeling that, uh, proud of that accomplishment. But anyways, so I, I went to pilot training. I had some bumps there that, uh, we'll probably talk about as we, as we go through the podcast Yeah.

If, if relevant. But, and then I, I ended up going from active duty to the reserves and became an intelligence officer and went to special operations. So I'm a reserve officer and I've been in about 17 years. And that takes me back to where we started. Yeah. Wow. That's, that's so wild. Okay. So a lot of the time it's a big incentive that people, you know, kind of get into these career trajectories.

Right. For one reason or another. But I think that's, that's so funny. It definitely speaks to just who you are, that you kind of got into this by accident, just to prove some guy wrong. Yeah. I've, I've been here for 17 years, so that's amazing. Well, however, it kind of serendipitously like happened. You're,  in a good spot.

 You know, when you meet people who are just in the right jobs or they can tell, you can tell that they are just meant to be there, like what they do. So genuinely and wholeheartedly. Right, right. Like, I couldn't really picture you doing maybe anything else. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what else I could do.

It's funny, when I went to the military, my dad said, you know, you've been training for this your whole life. Yeah. And I never really. I never really thought about that, but it was kind of a neat thing that he said that I was like, may, maybe I have. Oh, that's cool. I don't know. It always helps when you kind of get that, you know, validation or reinforcement from other people who, I mean, I talked to a lady today, for example, on the, you know, in person I went to go get my car, uh, the alignment check to whatever, and she was like the most happiest.

She was so happy. The lady that works at Firestone, she's a female mechanic, you know that She's amazing. She was like, oh, hi friend. How are you? Like, you are just in the right job. Like you love what you do, your face like. You know, just you light up a room. I'm like, oh, I love seeing people that are in the right, in the right jobs.

You know, it makes, makes my heart happy. Well, and you as a customer, it makes you happy about going to get an alignment, which is 100% one of those things. It's crazy. I've never been happier to like go pay $500 before. It was amazing. Yeah, well least you got service with a smile. I got new, I got new tires, so I mean yeah, that's 500.

That's where that came from for everyone listening that are like, damn, that's an expensive alignment. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So anyways. I know, so that's awesome. When your dad said that you'd been training for this your whole life, can you talk about your background, like as an athlete? Like what did you grow up doing that you feel like kind of prepared you for?

Oh, I think, I mean, I think as a, as a little kid, I was always doing, I was always active and I was always just moving and tapping my legs and my hands and climbing trees and I was always, you know, doing field days and always involved in camps where I was doing long jump and Right. So I did all kinds of sports.

I started playing basketball in sixth grade and then, uh, I was really, really focused on basketball. But when I got to high school, I started playing volleyball. I started running track and I found that I, I really love volleyball. That's, that is all that I did except when I was playing basketball. So I would go, I took an internship class and I was playing beach volleyball in between my lunch break and my internship class.

And then I would go back and spend the rest of the night basically at the beach playing volleyball. Yeah. But, , and every season it was good cause it was kind of a cross training, but I lifted weights when I was 14. I was always with the boys like doing bicep curl cause that's really all they did. I love it.

And , I just was always an athlete and I always just loved sports and being involved and competing. It goes. Yeah. I love that. It's funny. And now, fast forward to you being in Tampa, not McDo. You're originally from Tampa, right? I'm from, , Naples. From, you're from Naples, but not too far away, so super close.

Okay. Right. Um, so fast forward to you being here and now your focus is, I mean, you're focused a lot on getting better beach volleyball. Oh, 100%. So focused on that. She's always posting awesome. Motivational, you know, things on Instagram about getting 1% better. You know, things that really speak to me. I love it.

So Rachel's all about the mental training and I'm also obviously such a, you know, ready, set, mindful we're all about mindfulness and mental training over here. Um, so can you share a little bit about just. Things that you feel like have helped you throughout your, you know, in your, in military as well as like your, you know, your athletic career with mental training, like maybe where you've struggled a little bit and then how you've pulled yourself out of it.

Like what are some of the tools that are your go-tos? Yeah, definitely. I think, , as I started, I, I stopped playing volleyball for a long time because I hurt my shoulder. So there was about a 12 year gap and it was something that I just loved to do and I was so bummed I wasn't able to do it. Yeah. But I, I was, I got back into it playing once a week and it took me the entire week to recover.

Cause my shoulder was so hurt. It sucks. But, uh, from a mental perspective, I, so I started, you know, I, I was working on the physical stuff and then I realized I, I need to do more to be more. Right. And I listened to a lot of motivational podcasts. Yeah. Um, I listened to your Ready, set, mindful. Oh. But I listened to, , Kobe Bryant entrepreneurs, athletes, people that are doing things that are getting them to a place where not really everyone is.

There you go. And so, and I was just listening to, uh, a podcast on the way over here that's saying, you know, if someone is practicing one hour practice, two hours, if somebody is, is reading about, uh, quick Eye Movement, which I think we shared, right? We talked about that. Yeah. I had a coach that was talking about, Hey, watch the ball and keep your eye, eye on the ball.

And there are all these scientific studies associated with that. So trying to wrap my brain around not just the physical side of it, but the mental. And so I've, I've come to realize that having an awareness of everything, not just, not just physical, but how do I feel in this moment? How do I feel after this moment?

I, uh, I keep a journal. I focus on, I do heart rate variability training, which is, um, yeah. , Carrie can tell you more about that than, than I've been, it's been explained to me, I think. But I, I do a lot of, uh, box breathing or, um, diaphragmatic breathing, which when I start to feel myself kind of stressed, I do this diaphragmatic breathing, which if you watch Limitless with Chris Hemsworth, he, it kind of explains that.

Yeah. But it pushes the, the breath into your belly and it, it really slows your heart rate to control the stress. Right. And so, even before something like this, a podcast, I start to control my breathing and become aware and lower, lower my heart rate. I did it in, in a meeting this afternoon where I had to, to present, yeah, to a two star general.

And I was a little nervous and I could feel it. , another really big thing that's helped me is, uh, reading, uh, atomic Habits. Using the Atomic Habit's workbook even more than reading. So if you don't have a lot of time or reading's, not really your thing, because I'm kind of a d d and I don't have a lot, a lot of attention to dedicate to, to me the Cliff Note two, 300 pound book.

But it's, it's, their mantra is being 1% better instead of putting so much pressure on yourself to be perfect. Right. And I, I coach some adults in volleyball and I tell them, Hey, if, if you've improved at all, then you're headed in the right direction. And the, and the secret to that is the consistency. Yeah.

Right. So if you're 1% better, it actually ends up being 36% better. Right. In that year, even though you would think it would be, you know, 365 times 1% would be 365 times better, but Right. We do have some setbacks. We're not always progressing for sure. But that's, but that's the goal. So there's a workbook and.

And you use it to identify what are your good habits and what are your bad habits? Yeah. And just recognizing those, like for example, I lose my keys and I lose my wallet in, in my purse all the time, right? So I write down, okay, what are my bad habits? I lose things all the time. Mm-hmm. But now I, the workbook helps you understand why do you lose things all the time?

I'm like, well, because I'm always in a hurry. Why are you in a hurry? Because I'm always trying to do more. I'm trying to be better. I'm trying to put all these, cram all these things into my life and now I'm losing everything. So it's taking more time actually away right from it. So that's as an example.

Yeah. And then what's something I do positively? Right? So then you try to emulate, well, why do I, why do I do that? Well, right. And then try to apply. So you have, you write it all out. And I, that's really, it's really helped me a lot with my habits. And then in, in just life in general, surrounding yourself with people that are positive, that are motivating?

Yeah. Being aware that there are gonna be people that are negative. And so when you, they say something negative, you identify, okay, those people are out there. Mm-hmm. Like I play volleyball a lot, and people will say, oh, you're trying it for the Olympics, you know, and it's like, it's not really supportive.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I am, and I was getting frustrated by it, but now it's kind of, oh well, That person's just a dick or they just, or they just don't appreciate or understand. Right. That why you're so driven. Right? Right. If you're weird and driven, it's because you're focused and dedicated and, right.

That's not really that weird. No. Well, people like, people like to, you know, knock you down also, and they see someone who is progressing. Right. Like we've all been, we've played volleyball together and against each other, and it's really easy to tell, like when somebody is getting insecure, feeling vulnerable, or feeling like they're.

Their skills aren't quite up to par and that maybe they're embarrassed about it or they want to be better, it's way easier to make an excuse like, oh, my knee hurts. They're like, oh, she just like is doing super windy. This over here. Yeah. Or it's super windy or like, whatever, all the excuses in the world, rather than to look internally and to take ownership over, Hey, actually like your passing just sucks today.

Or Right. You know, for the last  three reps and, and that's okay. Like what are you doing? But rather than  taking that kind of painful sometimes look inward, I think a lot of people don't really realize how much that really hurts them by not being really intentional and reflective with your, with your behavior.

Right. We're being aware of it recognizing that you're being that way. So yesterday with the heart rate variability training, I meet with the sports psychologist. So the, the sports psychologist we were talking about memory, I'm trying to get better about learning names and Yeah. Using associations, which doesn't help me as an athlete necessarily, but it helps me in my, in my job and so much making relationship, right, having relationships.

So many accurate, so many things to keep track of in the military too. It is. Exactly. Oh my gosh. But we talked yesterday, we talked about, , gratitude and positive mindset. And I learned yesterday that having a positive mindset and gratitude are the two things that actually make you better. They actually help you learn faster and more efficiently.

Mm-hmm. And, and when I had a, a practice a few weeks ago where I was having a terrible day, I was in a really bad mood. A lot of bad things had happened and then I was trying to go learn. Something in my volleyball training and it, it was terrible. Yeah. It did not go well at all. Yeah. And then I was frustrated cuz I did that as a stress relief.

Totally. But I realized it was, it was my mindset. I, yeah. I didn't, I didn't show up to the court and say, I'm really grateful for being here. Right. For. It's, it's so hard. Its hard. It's hard to, and I, I tell clients that all the time, you know, it's like where, what you're, and one of my favorite quotes is just where you place your attention, you know, grows stronger.

So when, when something shitty happens, you stub your toe or you're running late, or you lose your keys or something like that, it's super easy and really comment to focus on that thing, right? Because that's what's happening in that moment, right? But then it's a slippery slope because then where you're placing your attention, you're like, well, now it's gonna be a shitty day, right?

Or like, Ugh, now I have to go talk to my boss. Or now I have to go do this. And it's like you're calling the, the shittiness to you at that point, right? When you're focusing on it. So you gotta just kind of realize where you're going down that path and just, just pull back a little bit, like, oh crap, I'm doing it again.

Right. Here I am. And what's one thing that's like going okay? You know. Right. I know. And it's not the time that you wanna be like, I'm super happy right now. No, you don't wanna fake it. It's not like a fake. Yeah, you gotta reach, but I mean, try to, when you're reaching for Right, you gotta reach for something accessible.

No, I really like my hair today. Or I really like something, you know, we're just like, it's really nice out today, which it's hard to do when you're tone cranky. Oh my gosh. I had a, I had a client once when I worked at the, uh, I worked at the psychiatric inpatient facility, um, for, it was, feels like another life ago.

And it was a, it was one of the hardest jobs that I've ever had. But I worked with this guy who was so pessimistic, God bless him. He was so pessimistic. And I was leading a group, a mindfulness group, and we'd go around and we're like, okay, what's one thing you're grateful for today? And he was always just so negative.

Um, and so when other people would lead the group, they'd kind of let him get away with, um, nothing like everything's shitty. Like, oh, my life sucks. And I, whenever I, I led the group, uh, one Tuesday, and he was like, I was like, you know, I'm not gonna let it, I'm not gonna let it slide today. And I was like, what are you grateful for?

He is like, no, nothing. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be here. And I'm like, what about like, what about your shoes? What about your ear lobes? And finally he cracked his smile. I was like, okay. All right. So Tom's grateful for his ear lobes today. Everyone and everyones clapped. Oh, he kinda cracked his smile.

And I'm like, Hey, but your attention's now focused on you cracking a smile now. Right, right. And it just got him out of that for just a second. And it was cool. I was like, oh, that's my big win for today. That's why when you posted about, about this. About this conversation, this podcast, you're like, oh, I'm grateful for my earlobe.

I'm grateful for my earlobe. I be grateful for your earlobe. Yeah, everyone. So if you're reaching, if you're having a hard time finding, check mine out. Finding something accessible to be grateful for your ear lobes. They don't hurt. They're there if everything else hurts and going to shit, least your ear lobes are good.

If you're out there and your earlobe are doing rough things, I'm, I'm sorry. Um, don't mind. Yeah. The dogs, everyone knows when they listen, there's notice out there just being a little crazy. Maybe they disagree. Maybe, maybe they did. It's true about theirs. So true. , so I wanna get into mental health. We talk a lot about mental health and mindfulness here on the podcast.

, and I wanna hear a little bit about your experience working within a community that's so high tempo. So high speed. You're a really high speed person too. Running around, like, doing so many things. Well, when you dig a little deeper, people who are losing their keys or they're, you know, things like that, when you dig deeper, it's because they have such a full plate that they're high tempo, high ops people, right?

So, , don't feel too bad if you're out there and you're, you're kind of running around sometimes struggling. It's because there's a lot on your plate, a lot of responsibility. And I think like within the special operations community, , high performing men and women, people out there just have so much on their plate.

And it's, it's a space where there's a lot of stigma attached to. You know, athletes in general and mental health, like, thank God for, you know, Michael Phelps and Simone Biles and people athletes out there who've been really amazing about speaking up about that. But within the military it's like, damn, there's a paper trail.

You might get dif might not be able to jump. There's a lot of consequences for acknowledging you have mental health issues. Right. But like, let's talk about that a little bit. Like what are some of the areas that you see people struggling, like within the special operations community, whether it's like deployment or like day-to-day tasks or trainings, different things.

, I would say that there, there are a lot of things that go on with deployments. I mean, we, we deploy 'em, we deploy more frequently in and we deal with things that are, you know, military people will deal with, but we deal with them at a higher frequency. Mm-hmm. So our, our deployments are super fast, high speed.

I mean, and, and I'm not an operator. I'm considered an enabler because when I was going through, women couldn't be in special operations except to, to support. Right. So since then, have they changed that? They've started, yeah, they changed it a couple years ago, but it's still kind of slow, slow rolling.

Mm-hmm. You know, to be a seal or special horses and, yeah. Yeah. So, But, but just that, that stigma attached to it, you know what I mean? Even I even, I would kind of struggle with that. Yeah. Even though I'm sure there are, you know, like everybody probably has some sort of P T S D on some level, I would say, and special operations, but Sure.

On the other side of that, I think we're also a fairly resilient force. Mm-hmm. So, and not, it's kind of a cop out or an excuse, but I, I think we, we tell ourselves that we're here to, we're here to take care of everybody else. We don't, we don't need to be taken care of, you know, try to, try to hold the door open for somebody and they're like, I got it.

You know, or Yeah. Or pick something up, or they're carrying all this stuff in the hallway and they're like, I got, I don't need help, for sure. So they don't ask for help. We don't ask for help as a, as a whole. So to ask for something that is super vulnerable. Right. And, and I think it, it conjures up or brings up.

Situations that you're kind of just want to stuff back in a corner of your brain never really to, to bring it out again. Yeah. So I think, I think that's the biggest thing with, I think PTs d is a, is a big factor. Yeah. And I think if special operators and enablers, if our soft, our special operations forces community started kind of peeling back what are the symptoms and understanding what the symptoms are, then I think they would start to realize that we as a community probably have a lot of symptoms.

Right. And if, if you don't mind if I share a story Oh, I would love that. Please. One of, I was, I was put in kind of a new office a couple years ago and one of the, we were talking about VA disability claims, which is kind of a, it's a hot topic when people are retiring, right? Sure. Yeah. So, oh, how broken are you?

How broken are you? And they're, and there's 80%, right? Percent. Yeah. And I'm trying to go for a hundred cuz it, it gives me like a, a nice check when I retire. Right. So it's, it's, it was funny because people have no problem talking about their physical injuries. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, even somewhat personal, personal, like sleep apnea or asthma or, or some other, you know, heart things, but Right.

The mental part of it, it's like completely zipped up and shut down. Yeah, for sure. Except I was, so we were talking about VA disability claims, and one of the guys in my office was like, oh, you know, you can get, I can't remember what the percentage was, but you pretty get a pretty good percentage for PTs d.

And I was like, I just kind of started listening in a little bit. Two guys were talking, right. And one of the other, I was like, oh. Started leaning in. I started seeing a little dollar sign. No, I'm just kidding. But one of the guys said, oh, well what do you, what do you have to do? And it was actually really helpful because he started talking about, oh, well, I, I don't like to, Being really busy places.

I don't like to go to concerts. I don't like to go to the grocery store when it's busy. It gives me high anxiety. Yeah. Olive Garden, he said, I sat, as soon as I walk in, I make sure my back is to the wall and I can see the front door All exits. Yeah. Like it waiting for somebody. It's, it's like you're prepped and ready for somebody to come in and start shooting.

Right. Right. So when you're, when you're in an op and you're deployed Right. Then you're, you're constantly looking for things, right? Right. You're easily startled. You're, you're on high alert.  I don't know if, you know, you walk by somebody and you kind of scare 'em and, or some people are just easily scalable, but it's usually like kind of a trauma response.

It's 100%. It's not Absolutely. It can be funny sometimes, but people, you know, when they hear, not necessarily gunshots, but loud noises. Right. Air crackers, I mean, gunshots for sure. Right, right. A lot of these things. Having nightmares or night terrors? You know, honestly, when I came back from my last appointment, I stayed at a friend's house and I, it was a week after I'd gotten back, I'd just gotten back and I woke her up because it was screaming in my sleep.

Oh. And I was , dealing with some things. And, and she's like, are you okay? She was panicking and it was, it was so hard because they didn't want to talk about it. Yeah. It wa it wasn't necessarily the, a single thing that happened. There were a few things, but she was so worried. And then it's like, oh, I don't want her to worry about me.

You know, I'm, I don't wanna wake her up. And Yeah. But, and as time went on, it, it got better. Right. I wasn't, it wasn't happening all the time. And it's, it's, you know, for the most part, like, I don't, I don't ever deal with really nightmares, but in that time, coming back from deployment, which is why it's, I.

It's good that you have those two weeks, usually have these two weeks of kind of r and r when you come back from a deployment to kind of readjust because your life is so different there. Yeah. You're only focused on one thing and that's you. And you eat, you exercise, and you do missions. Right. That's it.

You don't worry about day-to-day life, you don't care about your keys. You don't care about really much else than that. Right. So anyway, back to my, back to my story is we started talking about this and talking through the symptoms more than just, well, I have ptsd, you have PTs d I mean, nobody wanted to admit Right, that they had ptsd, s d right?

Yeah. Because of the stigma associated with it. But the symptoms, it, it made me realize like, wow, I, I deal with those things. I don't like to, I hate going to the grocery store when there's a lot of people. Right. You know, I, I don't have, , I, I haven't been diagnosed with ptsd d but I've also never gone in to, to see because Right.

I have a security clearance. I don't want to. Bring attention to my, my boss or have people be like, oh, she's not capable of doing her job. Yeah. You know, but the fact that we were able to talk about it and we were kind of like, oh yeah, I got that too. And I got that too. And it was, it was kind of nice to have a group of peers that have all kind of been through the same thing.

Right. And we all been sitting in that room together for like six months and didn't even, didn't even realize it. Yeah. You know, and I think we became a little bit more sensitive to, you know, as sensitive as we can be in a group of guys mostly. Sorry to generalize. Yeah. No. But when we, when we kind of realized like, oh, okay, you know, Bob's got P T S D and, and certain things like bother him.

So then we don't, we don't pick on him in those ways. Yeah. Right. Like we find other ways to pick on, but Yeah. Yeah. But we don't pick on him in those ways. So Yeah. I thought that was really helpful. That is, I mean, yeah, like I think sometimes those diagnoses too can be just super, I don't know, like the verbiage around mental health can be really scary sometimes.

And, uh, diagnosis, diagnoses, and like words like pt, you know, P T S D. Right. And you know, anxiety, anxiety, anxiety or, you know, depress generalized, right. Anxiety or depression, you know, those are scary words that come with like heaviness and are associated with like, You know, black dark clouds, my security clearance just like sailing away in the ocean, like Right.

You know what I mean? Like, people get, people get nervous, they get scared that that stuff feels, feels real and heavy. But yeah. I, I love what you said, like when you break it down to the symptoms, well that shit is relatable, right? Absolutely. And I didn't, I didn't really know what the symptoms were. Yeah.

But not only does it help me, but it helps me identify those symptoms in other people. It, right. My family, my friends, people that I meet, you know, I have a, a neighbor that I drive by and honk the horn and she jumps through her skin. You know, and, and I was, yeah, I was, my husband and I laugh about it, but I kind of realized like, Hey, we should stop doing that.

She, there may be a reason Right. Why she jumps as much as she does. Like, it's funny, but when I started thinking about she used to work with, , sexual assault victims and Yeah. And was an, an advocate and I think a lot of that's probably, and she's not military, but I think a lot of it has kind of gotten to her.

Yeah. In a sense. And I, so now I notice, you know, when you kind of scare somebody, it's, it's a much greater response than just, oh, you scared me. It's a like, completely irrational response. I mean, it's just a little beep and it's, it's, she's always just like throwing things in the air and Yeah. And that's not really her personality, so.

Yeah. But understanding. Symptoms and being able to talk in a, a forum, you know? Cause if I was dealing with something I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't talk to a group of my peers or, or my boss. Yeah. Like, it's not a, that's not where I would go to first. I would probably probably talk to my friends more than anything.

Yeah. You know, my husband too, but he's, he's a strong guy who probably would never admit if he had any of those symptoms, even though he's worked in some pretty tough assignments as a police officer. Yeah. And it wouldn't be farfetched that he would have some of those symptoms. But, you know, having, having that kind of safe group.

Yeah. Even though I didn't really know them that well. It was actually, it helped me. And I think it would help you out there, you know, understand and identify those symptoms in other people. And if you have kids that are in the military or brothers, siblings, or even friends, then you can kind of.

Understand a little bit better than just, oh, they have P T s D. It, it, there's, there's more to it, I think, than just that being that label. Yeah. I, yeah, I'm so glad that you said that cuz it's, it's, you wanna, you know, kind of casualized, I don't wanna say casualized, the, the, the symptoms or take, take P t s d like that label off the table.

But I think just digging a little bit deeper and understanding like what that person may be experiencing and just being a little bit more empathetic Right. , toward people like that. Especially, you know, it's, and it's. It's ironic that like just the strongest people, like, you know, athletes and special operators and people who would never want to have so much resistance, I should say, maybe to, to acknowledging mental health issues because it's been reinforced that they are so strong, they are so badass and they, they can handle so much.

Like you start to wear that as your badge of honor. Right? That it's just like, oh, that's Rachel. She's a, she's a fricking rock. Yeah. I mean I, you know, that's how you feel, which is awesome. There's this, there's a high expectation. It's like people expect things out of me and expect things out of these operators.

I mean, if you knew that a SEAL team was going in to do an op and you knew that they all had mental health issues and P T S D, does that give you the confidence that they can go do that mission? 100%. No. No, that's, but in reality, if they've recognized it and they're getting it treated, all those resilient.

Qualities are, are actually needed in an operation, right? Like, how much better could they be with that extra support, right? Because they're, it's not that they're, it's almost unsafe that a lot of seals and special forces are dealing with these mental health issues and they're just talking 'em away, right?

Instead of actually dealing with them, which is actually a healthier response. But I, I totally understand. I mean, you and I are, are strong people and you, you have this podcast if you come out here and you. You start prying and I just can't do this anymore. I think you would have probably a lot more empathy and empathy with your, with your audience.

But at the same time, I mean, you wanna present a strong, a strong appearance just like, like I do right? In my job. Yeah. I, I lead people and if I'm falling apart or they don't think that I can manage day-to-day things, then how does that give them the confidence to do the same thing? Right. Well, and I think that's a, there's a balance too, right?

And I, I really struggled with, a couple of, couple weeks ago I did like a fertility podcast and was like pretty vulnerable about our, you know, Austin and my fertility journey and I'm like, oh, how does that really sit with the podcast and me being a therapist? And I was really struggling kind of with putting that out there and I'm like, no, you know what this is, it's an important topic to talk about.

Agreed Fertility. And your struggles and, and hey, is there room for both? Is there room for me to be this strong businesswoman like athlete is capable of doing things but also struggle sometimes and hey, here's how I'm dealing with, with my shit. And really encouraging you to kind of own up and, and deal with your stuff because you know, hey, guess what?

There is room for both of those, um, personas to kind of exist at the same time. And I think sometimes people think it has to be one or the other. And we hear a lot, like as athletes and high performers like, Hey, drop, I mean, I heard this a ton as an athlete, like, drop your shit at the door. Like drop your drama at the door.

Like take it, you know. Take everything and, and leave it. Um, but then you gotta pick that up eventually because, and, and deal with it. Because when we push things down or to the side or away or whatever, guess what? That's coming up in our relationships. Like pe you know, people that do that. Special operators probably that, that do that.

I, I can imagine like, it, it wears on your relationship probably not sleeping super awesome. Who knows what nutrition or alcohol or substances like look like at that point, because right when you're struggling with mental health, like you're, you're kind of desperate to find. Some answer to kind of help you fuel some relief, right?

Right. And so that's the result oftentimes of pushing that down. It's like, oh, cool, you get the mission done, you're, you're good. Mm-hmm. Your reputation's intact, but like behind closed doors, like, what does your life look like? Right, man. Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of, uh, domestic violence in the military and, and in special operations, and there's a lot of substance abuse.

Yeah. And, and it's a, it's a show, right. So I think by sharing our stories with you to say, Hey, you know, I've dealt with fertility issues, I've dealt with having P T S D symptoms, I've, I've been around those things. I, I've been, I've feared for my life and, and we're, you know, it's, yeah. It's scary, right? Yeah.

So to just come back and say, come back from a deployment and say, oh yeah, it's all good. Now we're just gonna go to the store. Well, sometimes it's not that simple. No. How do you turn that off? I mean, two weeks to two weeks of r and r I think like, These, these, ,  timestamps that,  some someone has come up with for like how long it takes to kind Yeah.

Like how long can you be outta work? Yeah. It's like, oh my, what we be without you is really what we're looking at. Right. My goodness. Yeah. Cuz two weeks of r and r after deployment, I mean, wow, what a, what a what a wild adjustment to make from living such a completely different life. And I, I know when Austen came back from his deployment too, and some of his buddies are really close friends, it was, gosh, it's just such a, such a wild adjustment and we gotta talk about it.

Austen and I talked about that, like what that kind of looks like and, and how he's doing and just, just checking in. You know, but yeah. How did that, how did that impact you coming back? Do you feel like two weeks was enough time for you to just flip your switch, Rachel? So, uh, I, I would say that, so they don't let you really go anywhere, right?

Like the idea is you stay home, you kind of adjust to like, getting back into a normal routine, but your family is quick to, to wanna, they want you back. They want the person that just left and they have them back. Right. Or they want you as the person who just left. Ooh. Yeah. And, and when I came back, I, I saw my family immediately and they were like, you're different.

And, and I didn't realize I was different because over the course of my deployments, wow. I didn't realize that I was different, but they were expecting me. How, what's that? How did they kind of describe that to you? That you were different? They just said like, you're different. Yeah. You know, you're, you're cur, you're short, you're.

Just emotionally unavailable, I think. Yeah. I don't think it was really described, but if I look back and my, my parents, my mom especially was like, you're, you're not the, you're not the same person. Hmm. And it's, you do, you come back a different person. It takes a little while to adjust. Yeah. So for people out there who are listening to this, that have family members that are deployed, cuz I've been on both sides of it.

I've been, uh, the deployer and the deploy. Yeah. You know, and, and being gone is, I would say it's easier in a lot of ways because you're, you're only having to focus on yourself, whereas the person at home is having to deal with everything. Right. Right. Including the stuff that you would do. But yeah, just, uh, It makes you, it makes that person different.

So I, I would suggest that you just give that person some space Yeah. And kind of let them kind of come to you and let them insert themselves into the routines instead of having a list of things that need to be done, because they've been through a lot. Even if it's not being shot at or going on convoys, it's, it's a completely different mindset.

Yeah. And I don't want you to think that it's a negative experience, because I have to tell you, it's one of the most rewarding thing I have ever done is deploy. And it's almost like you crave it because you feel so important and that you're a part of something that's, that's really massive. Yeah. So, I mean, it, it's not like we just are forced to go deploy.

It's something that we want to do. It's, we wanna be a part of these ops, we wanna be a part of these important missions. I mean, truly it's like, Aside from some of the negativity that comes out of it, it's actually a really, really great, rewarding experience. It's just, it takes a little bit of time sometimes to readjust.

It's, it's not a normal life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. I remember hearing about Austin's deployment. Um, you know, he's working like 12 hour, like night shifts and Right. He was just working out a ton. I'm like, oh my gosh, you look, he came back. He was, oh yeah, everybody looks amazing. He's a different person.

Yeah. He was like, I look great. I'm like, oh, I gotta keep up with you. Oh my goodness. Right. Eating, eating a ton, working on a ton. Um, you know, dealing with some, some. Dangerous, you know, things over there as well too. So it's, it wasn't all just rainbows and bulls of pasta and, and Right. You know? Yeah, exactly.

So I, you know, but, but yeah, I think that that schedule in and of itself, despite the, uh, you know, without even taking into account the danger and the things you might see and experience over there, it's just, yeah, you gotta be empathetic. You gotta give people space. Yeah. Just a little time. Just a little time to adjust.

I mean, answer your question about the two weeks, it's, it's probably not enough, but I think it does give you enough time to slowly integrate, as long as the expectation isn't that that person is there with you right away. Yeah. From your, your parents or your kids, or your wife, or your husband or spouse or friends.

I mean, take that time for those of you in the military, like take that time for yourself, figure out who you were, and understand kind of what's changed. Yeah. And then a lot of it, you know, I, I mentioned awareness a lot, but I really think. Just understanding yourself and where you are in that space is really helpful towards working through things for sure.

I, I think like, for just a tool that might be super helpful is just to, I mean, journaling, I know like not a lot of dudes, I have a lot of resistance for my male clients to, to journal. So I stop calling it journal and I just say, we're just gonna make some, you know, we're gonna make some bullets, some man notes.

We're gonna make some man notes, some bullet points of things that you, you know, things, things that you are experiencing, things that are hard for you. , things that you want to be different.  Where you once were, where you are now, just kind of taking some ownership over that reflection piece cuz just to expect yourself to kind of go back to who you were.

, it's a big ask and there can be a lot of frustration I think, , from people. Special operators, athletes are not, , when you don't have that awareness as you spoke about, , it can be really confusing and just deal with all these emotions and  have these feelings and have maybe this anxiety or P T S D coming up and just like not know what's happening or where to put it or who to talk to.

Right. Or where to go. And you're just like, shit. All I know is that I'm not feeling like super capable, which is weird because I am a very capable person. Right. And it's a weird identity shift to feel like, I don't know how you feel, like when I, when I feel like I experience anxiety or like intense emotions, a big piece of me tries to push that away because I like myself so much more, my higher version of myself, who's more capable, who's stable, who's grounded. And so there's a lot of resistance, I think, to people who have that similar, you know, strong mentality and are mentally tough, right.

To kind of push that away. But I've since  been really working hard to  lean into that a little bit. Okay.  Why am I. Feeling that then I can kind of move it along and give it, give that feeling permission to go away quicker if I stop. Just  telling it to shut up. Right? , which is what I  tell my clients, 

 Just lean into it, man. You're feeling that anxiety. You gotta figure out, okay, what's my action step for the tool? And rather than pushing it in the corner where you'll never see it again, it's just gonna come up when you flip someone off in traffic, right? You yell at your wife, you know, let's, let's, let's deal with it now so that we can send it on its way a little quicker.

You know what I mean? Right. But the awareness piece, man, it's a big,  piece. I think a lot of people would be really helped out by that if they just  had that  so when I was in pilot training, before you go through the actual flying part of it, you go through hypoxia training, which is operating with low oxygen.

And so you go into a chamber, a hyperbaric chamber, and you, you have a mask on and the oxygen is slowly, it, you have full oxygen. It's, it's. Like coming in super fast. Right. Even more oxygen than you're just breathing. And then it slowly starts, I'm sweating, just listening. Yeah. They slowly start to take it away and they, they're simulating operating at altitude.

So when you're operating above 10,000 feet, you start to, the, the air is thinner, right? And so there's less oxygen available. And what they're trying to show you is if you're, you're flying at altitude and your oxygen is not flowing. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, to make it maybe a more relatable example, if you're in a commercial aircraft, they say, you know, don your mask.

Mm-hmm. Right? If the pressure changes, and that's because you're at a higher altitude, so you put on the mask so you have oxygen flowing. Well, what they do is they, so you, you, you go up in this chamber and they simulate different altitudes and then they have you play games, right? So like patty cake, and then touch your coordination, and then you touch your coordination, like you touch your nose and, and you do all these.

You know, kind of silly things and you're, you're like, what's so hard about this high fiving the person next to you and then all of a sudden you, you're getting at a higher altitude and less oxygen, and then you're, you're like touching your nose, like you can't find it. Right. And then your high fiving, like your coordination is, is slipping.

Yeah. Because you don't have oxygen. And, and they do that so that if you, so that you can recognize those symptoms. When, when you are at a lower oxygen oxygenated state, that's awesome. Right? So when you're hypoxic, you're not getting enough oxygen, you know, because everybody's a little bit different. Like at what point are you not able to slap hands or say your name or even trying to walk you like, try to get up and just kind of walk and it's, it's so weird.

But, and then they bring you back down and they're like, okay, what do you, what did, what did you learn? What were your symptoms? And everybody was a little bit different. Yeah. Interesting. But it's, it's kind of the same thing with. So that's for safety purposes. Right? And that's, that's kind of, you can relate that to your life too.

If you're aware of, okay, this is how I am when I get really stressed, right? Mm-hmm. Or this is how I feel when I'm super anxious, right. I start to, I feel my heart, my heart rate increasing, which was that heart rate variability has taught me to recognize when my heart rate starts to Right. Rev up. Your body will tell you first.

Right. But you have to  train that way, right. To understand that that's what's happening. For sure. You know, because I, I never really noticed before, I mean, you do feel like a little bit of tightness in your chest when you get stressed or anxious. Yeah. Or you kind of, you're withdrawn, but I mean, how many of you have actually sat there and, and studied that about yourself?

Yeah. And I think that would be really helpful For sure. And, , relating to pilot training, that's. Something that you, you're taught. Yeah, that's, and then you have a, and then you have a plan. So you have an emergency checklist for sure. If that does happen, you, so there's the plan's already there. You already have a plan on what's gonna happen When I feel stressed, okay, I'm gonna go for a run.

Yeah. I'm gonna go work out. I'm going to, I'm going to make man notes. Yeah. The man or bullets and it's, yeah. I think that's so good that to have a plan, you know, be a plan, plan to fail. And sometimes when you get to a point where like you are, you know, you are feeling super stressed or you feel like you're about to have a panic attack and you don't have that.

 Box breathing, that repetition on lock on standby. Therefore you, you don't practice it enough. Mm-hmm. Then guess what? You're just gonna go through that panic attack or go through that, you know, that anxiety spell with no tools, which sucks. So you gotta, right. Yeah. I think that the plan is, is so important and I don't know, I mean, I'm, I'm not suggesting that everybody go out and learn how to do box breathing or diaphragmatic breathing for sure.

It it does, it does help. Yeah. Absolutely. Breathing is, don't Google it, you know, you can, you can learn a little bit about it. Yeah, no, it's the best. We talk about that. I talk about that a lot. Box breathing is definitely one of my favorite because they use it so, so frequently with special operators and Olympians and lots of athletes.

It's the best, tool, honestly, and figure out  what your body's response is to stress and how you can. Take notice of that.  We're all about mindfulness here at 30 said Mind, but it's the ultimate mindfulness tool, right. Was my body trying to tell me. Right.

And I, and I think when you're, when you're stressed or anxious, then you start to panic a little bit and then you start to have negative self-taught self-talk. Yeah. And then you're not performing. Right. So I've, I've kind of, I've used it on the volleyball court where it's, I'm about to serve, I have just a few minutes.

And you know how when you're in a yoga class or a stressful situation, they're like, just breathe. Well, no one explains what that means. Right? Yeah. I mean, deep breath. Okay, well why did I do that? Cool. Walk me through that. Yeah, so you're trying to lower your heart rate so you can control that. That response.

Yeah. Right. So then I'm on the volleyball court waiting for a se quick breath. Now I'm in a more positive state, just automatically. Right. Because I feel like I've just corrected something that was starting to get away from me. Yep. And now I'm able to correct it in seconds time. And when the ball comes to me, I'm, I'm in a more positive state.

And that's when you perform well for sure. And that builds your confidence, right? Absolutely. And your partner has confidence in you too, right? Because you know what, Rachel can handle her shit. Right? Not, not all the time, but, you know, try to, you gotta wrap it out. I love it. I think that's so, yeah. It's so cool.

And that's such a, that's a really good example. I wanna know what a scary truth is about the military that maybe a lot of people don't know. I mean, you said something earlier. For me, it was a scary truth that a lot of people like to deploy. , which I'm just kidding. It's not a scary thing, but, but it's like being a part of a team.

I could see the allure, right? Like with being a part of a team, a community, a mission. You want to just. You feel that energy and that that fight, and that's why you kind of are in the military, right? Like that's the bigger, the biggest picture, the, the biggest, , the biggest show you can go to. , but for you, what is like a scary truth?

Maybe that or like a misconception maybe that some people No, I like, I like that one actually because being on this side of it, I don't, I don't see what other people think about the military, right? So I don't, I don't really know what a misconception is because I, I live this every day. Yeah. But when you, you know, as we were talking through the deployments, I actually, I was on the, a team that studied special operations cuz we were having a lot of incidents in the, in the command in throughout special operations.

A lot of things were hitting the news, a lot of bad pub publicity.  Oh. And so we did a comprehensive review and I was on that team and we went and learned about. The different areas of maybe why some of these things were happening. And the deployments was a, was a big topic of conversation in that I think most of the public doesn't think it, they think that we're forced to go on a deployment and that it's not something we wanna do.

It's so awful. It's traumatic. We could die, we could lose a limb. But in reality it's, it's an easier life because like I mentioned before, you're, when you're gone all the time, and, and this is a, a not very known fact, but it's easier to deploy. You're not dealing with kids, you're not dealing with work from a day to day.

I gotta go home, I gotta go to work. You know, you got things on your, on your mind, but it, it's different. You're, you're working. It's, it's the difference, the way I can relate it to athletes is, Okay. You're practicing all the time, but you're sitting on the bench, right? Oh. So yeah. What's your purpose or motivation or intent of being on that team?

Yeah. And going through the hard work of practice, which practice is, is fun, but it's not, it's, it's kind of a grind. Yeah. Right? Because you're just trying to get better. Sure. And, and it's not always super fun. I mean, ask anybody, I think they would rather scrimmage or play than they would practice. That's a lot more fun.

Yeah, for sure. Right. So I see that as deployments too. Is that why do you wanna train all the time and be in the military just to sit and not, and not go, right. You wanna go out there and, you know, raise the flag and make progress and go forward and do great things and save people and assets and equipment, you know, whatever it is your mission is.

Bringing back hostages or, yeah. You know, I mean, making pretty significant impacts. So, That's, that's how special operators look at deploying. They're like, they get to go. Yeah. It's not a, oh, I have to go on a deploy. Ask anyone. I mean, yeah. They may not admit it to you because they're like, oh, I gotta go again.

You know, because I mean, they don't wanna be away from their families. Sure. That, that is a drawback. I'm not saying that that's, that's not a part of it. But you go out there, it's like, it's like being, I don't know what being a professional athlete is like, but you get to work out, you eat for, for performance.

Yeah. You, you train for performance and that's your only focus. So imagine being a professional athlete in everything in your life you have an assistant for. Mm-hmm. It's just like that. So you get to focus on one thing. Right. Right. So yeah. When you go out, you have somebody at home, you have power of eternity.

Ty typically somebody that's taking care of all the home stuff and you get to go out there and do your craft. Yeah. Doing your craft at home. It's hard. It's a lot harder. It's, it's different, but it's, there's, you don't have that excitement of, of doing the work every day on a deployment, you, you get the excitement, enthusiasm of like, I'm making a difference.

Yeah. I'm, I'm doing things that matter. We're, we're moving the goalpost. Right. But at home you're like, training, training, training. You know, you gotta go this meeting, that meeting, this meeting. You've got kids at home. You got a wife or husband that's has expectations of you to be home for dinner. You're trying to plan and coordinate and compromise.

And your weekends are all consumed when you deploy. It's okay. Boys, girls, you, you're on a team, you're doing the same thing. That's your job. That's it. You work out, you eat, you sleep, you do the machine. Wow. Yeah. Hearing you talk about it just reinforces my belief that, I mean, special operators are I. Just the ultimate high performing humans that, cuz it's just not, I mean, I think a lot of people listening to this podcast are high performers and athletes for sure.

But I think like a lot of, you know, a lot of folks who maybe don't know a ton about military life or, um, you know, would, would maybe look at, you know, from the outside looking in like, oh gosh, like I maybe even feel sorry for you. Like, oh, you, you, you have such a hard life. You're a military spouse, or Oh, he is in the military.

Like, God bless him. Um, but you hearing you talk about it is just like, wow, like we get to do this. It's just. It talks, it speaks to the, the actual mindset and how different that mindset is from the average Joe, who's right, totally happy doing it, nine to five, working from home at his tech job or you know, who, whoever those, those people are.

It, it's funny if I can share a, a quick story. Yeah, please. So when I was in, as far as the mindset that we're talking about, so when I was deployed to Afghanistan, I had a woman come up to me, grab my arm and said, I feel so sorry for you. And I was like, dang, for what? She goes, that you have to be out here.

I said, well, what do you mean? She said, you don't have a husband to take care of you. Ooh. And that's why you have to be here, out here. Because at the time I was single and I was like, what a different mindset. Interesting. She feels bad for me that I have to be in the military. I. And here I feel like I have the freedom and the ability to make that choice.

Wow. To go do something that I wanna do. It's just a different way of looking at it, and it still to this day, baffles me. Yeah, that's so funny. It just, well, yeah, it just obviously goes to show it's the difference, a different way of thinking. Yeah, man, it's cool to see your, the way that your face lights up.

Anyone watching the podcast can be, I mean, she's not faking that she's excited about what she does and Oh, I love it. I mean, deploying is, is like playing in the championship game. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like I get to go do these great things with these great people, people that train super hard and have, you know, strong backgrounds and lots of training and Yeah.

I mean, I was in a, a convoy with a team of seals, And I was like, this is the greatest thing ever. Right. And then I realized like they weren't real happy about me being there because now they have to like take care of me as me being a liability. Oh gosh. Because I was an assistant to, uh, one of the generals, so I was like, this is cool.

We get to ride around and you know, a truck with seals and they're like, you guys don't forget what you guys have brought this chick. Like, what am I supposed to do with this? Like, do you even have a gun? I was like, yeah, I have a gun. Do you know how to use it? I'm like, I mean, yeah, I shoot expert so I'm capable.

We can figure it out. You're a shoot expert. Yeah. You just casually threw that in. Oh, I didn't to be like a humble brag. No, that's awesome. Say something about that. This is, so, this is the secret. You gotta have like the medical people shooting next to you because they shoot all over the place and a lot of times you'll have extra bullets that hit your target expert every time.

Oh, that's amazing. I'm kidding. But that okay. I'm like, wow. I mean, it did happen when I was in training, one of the, , medical techs was so scared and she, she kept shooting it by target and so they're like, how is it that you have more bullet holes than you had bullets? And I was like, well, I had some help.

I don't know Linda, but a shot expert. So that was awesome. That's amazing. That's so cool. So you get shot expert for like your target efficiency, right? For different. Yeah, before you, before you deploy you, you usually shoot to make sure that you're comfortable with shooting. You're good to go. Yeah. Damn. So those, that, that's SEAL Team, I'm sure that they weren't like that disappointed.

They didn't even know they didn't. I was like a first Lieutenant, I think it was 22 years old. Oh my gosh. This is so cool. Wow. They didn't think it was that cool, man. That's, that's so wild. I mean, I listen to a lot of podcasts and I love listening to,  Joe Rogan a lot and he has a lot of veterans on there and they speak about, you know, they're recently retired and doing new endeavors like, black Rifle and some other different companies and, and guys on there.

And they speak all the time about just how challenging it is. And I can definitely relate to this as an athlete, professional athlete, like once I kind of retired, you just kind of crave that. You're trying to kind of find something else that fulfills you. But there's nothing like, I mean, and I definitely that has to.

I definitely can't speak to being a, a special operator. That's, that's its own game of like going out there and feeling that thrill and that fulfillment of, of, you know, being with your, being with your buddies and having this mission and having multiple deployments. , I can't even imagine how hard it is for them to come home and then all of a sudden, or to retire and then all of a sudden, yeah.

It's actually, yeah, it's harder to come home and then not do it anymore. It's like, I, I don't know what to do with myself. And I think you can relate a lot more than you realize with that. Just that grind of going through practice. I mean, you're, you're practicing a few times a day. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And you get to play in the games and you're super excited about it, right?

Yeah. And then when you're, your game's done, you're tired, you're, you know, you're mad, you're stressed if you lost and didn't play well or you're super stoked and you're, yeah. You know? Yeah. There's a change of pace for sure. And then when you stop, yeah. A lot of special operators have a hard time with stopping.

That's the mental health piece too, I think. Like while you're in it, For sure. That's, it's a challenge. And there's lots of substance use and ptsd, TS D and lots of things that are kind of unacknowledged symptoms that are happening. But then, yeah, the mental health piece we didn't speak too much about was like, okay, what happens when the, when the party stops?

So what happens when the gay mens Yeah. And you're retiring and you're supposed to find this next endeavor that like equally fills you up. Like I know for, I mean, for, for me, that was such a, I mean, man, I, I went through depression, like when I retired from my sport, I'm sure. And I was like struggling to kind of find what my next thing was.

I was like, okay, am I gonna work in the psychiatric hospital for the rest of my life or the homeless shelter? Like, yeah, I wanna be a social worker. And the answer was no to all of those three things for the rest of my life. But I thank God found, you know, my dream and I'm so excited to be doing what I'm doing.

But, but man, it's, it's a struggle I think for lots of people to, to try to find something that fills them up. And fills that hole for Yeah. For a lot of them. Yeah. I think, I think you lose your community. That's a big thing. And I think families are excited when they're loved ones ready to retire. Yeah. But I don't think they realize what that means to the person that was working like this high speed, high tempo, high ops job.

Right. And then just like you as a professional athlete, now, you went from being, you know, on this huge pedestal. Right. And now you're kind of like one of everybody else. Right. Or that's I think, how it's perceived. You know, we have a lot of, uh, suicides with Oh yeah. People that retire, that are used to, I mean, think about some of these four star generals.

 Their life. Revolves around the military and then all of a sudden they're just expected to be a normal, everyday person. What does that even look like? But they're, but they're not. Right, right. By any stretch of the imagination. Yeah. And not to say,  that they're all suicidal, but I think that's when you start dealing with things and I think the families are like, oh, finally, praise the Lord.

You can be normal again and we can have you around. But if you pay attention and you watch these, these guys and gals, they just get into something else with the same amount of intensity, same amount of time. If, if you're wondering why, oh, well they just, their job. I don't know why they choose this job.

It's so stressful as a follow on in the military. It's to keep that sense of purpose and that. Right. That's, that's what they know. They know how to work. Yeah. No, that's, I'm so glad that you talked about that too. Cause I think. It's something that's maybe like a gap that can be better too. I think, like we talked about coming back from deployments and having that two weeks of r and r and then as you're getting out of the military is it taps right, that you're going out and that you're kind of exit strategy.

I just feel like there's, you know, a few people that I've known who've kind of exited the military and just had really minimal support and it's just been such a, I think we just need to support our people so much more. Um, and again, like look for those symptoms, right, of like, right, what is this person disengaging from what they once thought was, you know, interesting Or are they, you know, going to the bar more Like what are, what are they doing?

What can you kind of look for to just right check in on these people, right? And to have a heart to heart like, Hey, you know, Hey Tom, like I noticed that you're, you're drinking all the time. You gotta stop. Like, that's not a helpful conversation, right. But like, how are you doing buddy? Like, let's go play golf for let's something.

Yeah. Something. Let's go do something more productive. Yeah. But a lot of people, they get in the military and they don't have a family too. Al also Yeah, that's true. They, their parents live far away for some of the younger people and, or they're, they, they never got married and they don't have anybody. Or divorce.

Or divorce, yeah. Which is like common, or more common, I should say. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Operations has a lot of divorce because it's so high temple, right? I mean, is that what you attribute it to? Yeah, I would say they're always gone. Yeah. So, I mean, it's hard to be in a relationship with somebody that's always gone.

What's, what's kind of the purpose, right? Right. And the person that's at home, it's like you're, you're single but married, right? So you're raising your kids by yourself. You know, you, you can't, you have all these restrictions because you've, you've agreed that you're not going to have infidelity and that you're going to be dedicated to the, your, your person.

Right. Right. But then everything else about your life is essentially single. Yeah. Right. Because now you're doing all these things on your own. Right. And, and so yeah. I mean it. People don't, they don't wanna sit and wait for somebody that's, you know, out there playing championship games all the time. It's, it's rough.

And I would imagine that's tough for professional athletes too. Yeah. Well, like you're and Tom Brady, right? I mean, you know, what are you gonna do? Yeah. I mean, I think it's a similar mindset. That mindset is very similar. Well, yeah. Like, I, I mean, his focus is football all the time. Right. And you as a, as a spouse, as that person, you gotta just, okay, when when's, when's our turn?

, you're always second or you always feel second. It's just because that, that operator or that person, that's, that's what they know. They're, they're, I have a venture to say that operators are more comfortable shooting at things than having em. Emotional connections.

Yeah. In general. , it's just easier to go shoot things, beat things up, you know, simple tasks. Like, or mission, you know, we're mission as a team, I'm hanging with the boys, I'm gonna go do big things Right. As opposed to coming home. And your wife's like, uh, hey, the dishes, the kids, like, I've been with these kids all day.

It's your turn. Wait a minute. That's, that doesn't require a lot of special apps training. Yeah. Yeah. It's so important to have  that, conversation and make sure that you are really aligned with, with your,  partner. . And expectations.

Yeah. And what that  looks like. Cause  there's nothing worse  than getting into a relationship where you're, you're here and the other person is here and you're as far away as can be expectation wise and alignment wise. 

It just makes for a mess and pretty complicated home life. Right. And I think people who are married to special operations, Military members, they, they're typically a little bit more independent or, or need to be a little bit more independent. Yeah. And I think you gain that independence when somebody's gone a lot.

Yeah. Because you, you kind, you don't really have a choice or it doesn't work for you. For sure. That's true. I mean, I always tell Austin, I'm like, I love you so much, but when you're gone. I eat better. I'm like, I'm like the, I'm such a good version of myself. You're not around. That's sweety, you're not around to like, just sway me and, you know, convince me to go to eat or whatever.

Ice cream, he's, he's the best, but we do have Friday and that hasn't been happening since he's been gone for, that's, no, I'm not gonna lie, I did snake like last Friday with myself to go get one, but it, it wasn't the same. Taste is good, you know, but yeah, you have to be, you have to be independent. I love my time by my, by myself, and with the dogs and I, and it just makes you kind of like really value that person.

I think when you're with somebody and you know, like Randy, your husband is super busy. He's doing all of these charters and he's. He's super busy and you're super busy. And then doesn't it just make your time together? Like really, you really savor it isn't that special. Definitely. Right. And we even make a point to get together and have date nights every Wednesday night.

So ah, if anybody ask us to do something like we're not available at that time, love it. So we, in case we are missing each other all week. Yeah. You know, literally he's out the doors. I'm coming home. Cuz we work kind of different hours Yeah. Than, than we have that time together. Yeah. Ugh, nice. Yeah, it really helps.

, so in wrapping up,  what is your, our final question here before I get to our special announcement, we're at the end of the podcast. Yay.  But what is the one thing that you wish that you would've known when you were 18? 

Ooh. There's, there's a lot of to her about, . So the biggest thing I, I would say is, Follow your dreams in the sense that keep doing what, what you wanna do, stay on the path that you think is right. Right. Yeah. Because there were multiple times in my life where I made decisions based on somebody else's expectations and it, it always ended in regret.

Right. So being in a relationship where somebody says, well, if you do this, then I'm leaving. Yeah. If somebody says that, I would tell my 18 year old self to tell 'em to go. Yeah. Because somebody that's supportive of you, regardless, my husband is so supportive of me, I could say something completely outlandish that I'm gonna go to Antarctica and study the penguins for six months, and he would be like, okay, that's outta nowhere.

But if that's what you feel like you need to do, then go do that. That's awesome. It really is. And I, and I think that's super important with friendships and, and in a relationship and a and or a marriage is. Doing things, just be yourself. If somebody wants you to be different, then that person's not for you.

Yeah. And it, that's huge for me because there were many times like, I don't want you to go to pilot training. I don't want you to be a pilot. I don't want you to move here. I don't want you to, to go do this or that. And, and it's like, okay, well now I had to go a long way to get there because ultimately I ended up going back to that point anyway.

Right. And guess what? That person wasn't there. Yeah. Or, or a friend that says a friend. That's not supportive. I mean, friendships can be, have just as much bearing on your life, if not more than your family or, or your spouse or significant other. And so that's what I would tell my 18 year old self is like, keep going in the direction that you think is important and don't let anybody sway that.

Only bring people into your life that are gonna be supportive of, of who you are, as weird and crazy as, as you may be. Or you may be into some weird, crazy Antarctica things. Yeah. You know, or you want to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, then go for it. Do that because that's what's gonna ultimately make you happy that that person that you think makes you happy, that is trying to keep you from re recognizing your own happiness.

Yeah. Is not the person that you need in your life. Yeah. Whether it's family even. Yeah. Even if it's family. Yeah. So that's the biggest thing I would say. What a,  great piece of advice. It just never feels good when something, when you're trying to force something  or do something just because it's gonna make somebody else happy. . It never feels great and it's not gonna work.

It's not gonna work out.  It's either it's not gonna work out because you're forcing it or you're trying to be somebody that you're not.  At some point it's not gonna work out.  And , I was helping coach some high school girls recently and I was like, look, if your boyfriends or girlfriends are not supportive of, of you being a collegiate volleyball player, because that's why they were there.

Yeah. To be a collegiate, beach volleyball player. Then I told them , you need to find somebody else because if this is your dream, yeah. Then you need to pursue that and you're not gonna be able to do it. Especially not easily with somebody that's not supportive of that. Oh, 100%. I love it. So hopefully they listen.

I didn't, you know, you just never know. You hope that something sticks. Maybe. I'd like to think that, we go through the hard things so we can kind of help younger. Versions of us.  . But sometimes we just all have, we have to go through and make the decisions ourselves.

  Hopefully that helps. Yeah. I love it.  So thank you for joining.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been really, really great. Awesome. Okay, everyone will, until next time, be well and stay mindful.

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