Wives of the Armed Forces: Building Military Spouse Community, Friendship & Resilience with Jen & Kirst

In this heartfelt and hilarious episode, I sit down with Jen and Kirsten—co-founders of Wives of the Armed Forces(WAFs) and powerhouse military spouses—to talk about the highs, lows, and pivots of military life. From awkward first friend dates to navigating PCS, deployments, and major life transitions, we dig into what it really takes to find your people and stay grounded when everything around you is changing.

Whether you're new to military life, preparing for transition, or craving a deeper sense of connection and purpose, Jen and Kirst share invaluable lessons on friendship, flexibility, and how WAFs was born—on a couch, during a move, in the middle of military chaos (naturally).

Topics We Cover:

• Creating authentic friendships in the military community
• Redefining transitions: PCS vs PCA
• The emotional toll of military isolation
• How to build a support system from scratch
• Why WAFs is changing the conversation for modern military spouses

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating military life—or supporting someone who is. Prepare to laugh, nod along, and maybe even tear up.

🎧 Tune in, share with a fellow spouse, and don’t forget: never say never.

Transcript

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Hi, I'm Carrie bge, military spouse, licensed therapist, and founder of Mindful Warrior Alliance. Welcome to the Mindful Warrior Alliance Podcast, your go-to space for real conversations around mental health IVF, fertility and military life. Each week we connect with leading experts, service members, male spouses, and thought leaders to bring you tools, insights, and stories to support your journey. Welcome back to another episode of the Mindful Warrior Alliance podcast. Today I am so excited to have my guests from the wives of the Armed Forces. You may know who they are already. Um, they are very impressive mill spouses and humans, and I'm excited to welcome'em to the podcast. Welcome, Jen and Kirsten. Uh, I'll let you guys introduce yourselves, but thank you so much for being here. I'm just super excited to what we're gonna get into today. Of course. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So I'm Jen. Um, we are in a transition season. Me and my husband and our kids, we just finished 10 years of active duty and are now learning all that is the reserve side of the house. Um, we did our time in Washington State. That's where Kirsten and I met. That's where was the armed forces was created on Kirsten's couch. While she was moving. Uh, we'll probably get into that in a little bit, but we did six years here and then we did three years in Alaska and then now we are back, which was very unexpected. But I have learned and been very humble to never say never, um, just along for the ride and trying to be as positive through it as I can. Yeah, this is, I'm cur, this is, I'm like, this is, this is me and my second personality. I'm first, um, currently in the DC area. We've been here about three years and we're preparing for the same transition. We had our two feet firmly placed. In transitioning out, we were gonna do commercial airline life and then do, um, some guard time as well. And we were very excited and then got an incredible offer that's keeping us active duty now until, uh, the 20 year retirement point. So quite the pivot for us. Um, and we were still kind of adjusting, you know, mentally and emotionally to just what we, what we thought was happening. And then the whiplash of this is a better fit for our family and, um, getting our, our feet firmly placed in this new reality and that we're really excited about. Um, but Jen and I have talked a lot about how like weird it is to be doing something different. What did you call it, Jenna? A PCA. Yep. Yeah, permanent change. Permanent change of assignments versus station. Versus station. It's, it's an interesting dynamic. So like we're still here, we're still in the same house, we're still doing the same things with the same friends. Like I'm no longer a part of the same spouse group I was. I'm starting fresh. Mm-hmm. So last night, for example, I was at dinner with all the old squadron spouses and it was just hysterical to be like, oh my gosh, if you guys have a spouse social officially, like, I won't be there. Yeah. So it's just interesting adjusting to the emotions that come with that of, um, you know, the never na, never say never mentality and pivoting as we go. Yeah. That's, isn't that so true? Yeah. Never say never. I've learned, you know, when, when my husband Austin and I first got together, I created this list'cause I thought that was really cute of places I'd never moved and places I'm like my, my, my non-negotiable like nevers. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, that, that slowly has like faded. I'm like, although we've only been, you know, we've only been stationed at three, three locations. You know, Fairchild over in Spokane, Washington. Mm-hmm. And then, um. You know, now Mick Dill over in Tampa and then now in dc But, but yeah, I'm like, I should probably be careful.'cause like right when you, when you plant that seed and the, when you have that never list, you're like, okay, so just keep it open, keep it flex. Prepare to pivot. Yes. Like all the things. But yeah. That's so funny. And so we were just actually talking about this before we started recording. Um. I had just learned that, uh, Jen was over in Gig Harbor mm-hmm. In Washington State. Are you both originally from Washington State or were you over there at that? So tell me where you were kind of originally from and then how you guys met on Curse Couch. Yeah, so I'm originally from Arkansas. Curse is originally from Iowa. Um, and our guys went to the Air Force Academy together. Yeah. So then they were in, um, the squadron together and Curse was very open to her husband about how she was. Actively seeking friends and she needed his support and that, so he reached out to my husband. They got us together. It was not love at first sight at all. Um, I mean, we had a great time, but like, I definitely go stick cursed for a little bit. Um, and then it was like really hot and heavy after that from, again, curse like really. Putting herself into my life. And we became close when our husbands did back-to-back deployments to each other. So over the course of six months, we did a lot of third wheeling, whether I was third wheeling her and her boyfriend at the time. And then, um, whenever he deployed, we swapped. In my husband and over that period, that is where we grew. Um, and yeah, it's been, it's been this ever since. It's so hysterical to reflect back on that because it's the complete opposite of our personalities. 100%. It's like Jen is usually like the go hard into a friendship and I'm like, oh, like I'll give it a few months. So just, I think it's a really good example of. Where I was mentally and mm-hmm. Really putting my, you know, my money where my mouth was of like, I want friends, and I was going after it. Yeah. You know, I told my husband like, if you help me out, like I will follow through and follow through. I did. Yeah. You know, because I didn't want to be that spouse that was, I. You know, like going, going half into it, like, I, I'm doing this life. I'm doing it with you, so I'm gonna figure it out. I thought I could do it without friends. Where we were at, I could not, I was sad, I was lonely, I was struggling. So I'm like, well, if you're gonna help me out, then I'm going to keep my end of the deal up and I'm gonna try to make these women love me. I love that here we're, Aw, I love that so much. Yeah, I think that's, it's such a weird, it's such a weird thing too, right? Because you think that you are, you know, or at least that I, you know, I thought that I was a pretty independent, you know, person, kind of a go-getter. And then when we moved from Spokane where my whole community was to, um. You know, to, to Tampa. Right? Like it was such an adjustment, both like weather wise, I really took me like that was, that was like a whiplash for sure. Sure. And then just isolation wise, right? Yeah. Where you just underestimate like how important community is, and sometimes that's important to be able to, yeah. Have your spouse reach out or like, I don't know how involved you guys are on Facebook groups or things like that, but it could be. Mm-hmm. Kind of a whirlwind of like trying to connect with just like your people, right? And it makes the most sense to connect with people who kind of get your lifestyle and who understand, right? Like the, the, all the hard stuff that comes with like, yeah, just being in that life, right? So, yeah. Yeah. That's really, I just think I learned that lesson really early that like, okay. You're gonna be really uncomfortable. And then eventually, if you put yourself out there a little bit, you will find that comfort. But it doesn't end there. And that's where Curse came into my life. Like I had a few friends, um, I had gone to some spouse events. Kirsten's situation was totally different. She was a girlfriend, so she was not going to spouse events because she was not invited to spouse events. Um, hopefully like we are doing our little bit along the way to change that for people. But so I have found a few people. And I was comfortable. And that's where I just wanna set it. And I think a lot of our messaging comes to, Hey, this life is gonna make you uncomfortable all the time. And even in the seasons of comfort, like do not shut yourself off because what would I have lost if I was like, no new friends. I've got her. And we joke all the time about you meet someone that is like so valuable in your life, in your last six months assignment. Yeah. Yeah. Meet you. So, so true. Oh my God. Well, I think that's really where WAFs was born too. Out of that place of, we were looking online for that connection because that's really where it started. You know, that whole connect online thing. I mean, I was using Bumble for friends and going on these like blind friendship dates and it was awful. Awful. Like, I mean, truly speed dating for friendships. Yes. Yeah. And it was so hard to do that in an area that I was already just like geographically unfamiliar with. I was working a full-time job, like my husband. Boyfriend at the time was like in, out, in, out, in, out. I never saw him. I'm like, what is going on? I needed that group of people that just got it, and then when I started looking for that online. Everywhere. It was just people complaining about this lifestyle. Yeah. I'm like, whoa, like I can't do that. I slip into that space so easily that I really have to be careful who I surround myself with. I'm like, I can't be in a spot where I'm constantly around people feeling negative this negative, like unrealistically negative about this lifestyle, or I'm gonna be very resentful little b, you know? Oh my gosh, I'm not gonna be helping anybody. Yeah. Which I think is such a first assignment tool specifically. Like you go into it like a little babe eyes wide open and you're like, okay, I'll meet you. I'll meet you, I'll meet you. And yeah, it, whether or not you dive into everybody, it might take you a minute to realize you might get down in the dumps with them before you're like. I can't live like this. Like I remember having a girl that like, I mean, first year of marriage is hard already. You do that and then you never see your spouse. Like I joked to my husband that we were in our first year of marriage for the first three because of the consecutive days we spent together. So true. And I remember having a hard time. Just with marriage and all of the things that comes with it and talking to a friend about it and her being like, oh yeah, your husband sucked there like that. He should not have been like that. And I was like, whoa, okay. That's not what I needed out of this. I needed someone to tell me from his perspective,'cause he's not here to speak for himself. And so you learn really quickly at the beginning, like, I can either go this route. Or I can find a better way. And yeah, that's where Kirsten and I, we realized that we are being faced with a lot of challenges. It's really hard. We definitely cried a ton. We felt really sorry for ourselves a ton, but we also had some really epic times that I just don't think most people get outside of college. You know, like we were having girls nights and we're doing girls trips and we explored together a lot of Washington state. Day never seen. Yeah. Yeah. So we're like, you've got Germany. We've got Washington. Well, yeah, I mean, and Washington's a paradise. I think that's one of the things like that. Yeah. One of the things that is so important, I think in being where your, you know, your spouse is just gone all the time, is just adventuring and having like an adventure buddy. Being okay solo, doing those things solo. But obviously having an adventure buddy I think is so important to kind of build that, you know, build that community, make some experiences yourself.'cause then, yeah, it's easy to get. Down in the dumps and in that like negative thought spiral when your husband's doing all this like, cool shit, and then you're at home, right? Like, oh my gosh. Like, but you're my person and I need you and this. Yes. And then you're on these Facebook groups like spiraling further, and it's like, yeah, okay. Like let's, you know, I'm, I, I see that with like the infertility community too. Mm-hmm. Like where we, you know, you go on there for. Support or whatnot. And, and it really turns into like everyone wanting to compare their situation or telling you what you are doing wrong and your thought spiraling even further. And it's like, you just gotta kinda, you know, do what Jen did in the beginning. It's just like ghost, you gotta post and ghost and just like, yeah, go with intention and then get out, get what you need. Um, but like, yeah, it can be, it could be. A blessing and a curses. I think using those things as like tools versus like an echo chamber for like validating your negativity, right? Like, yeah. So yeah, finding your right people. So it sounds like you guys found that like in your, in your, in your, in each other and like healthy boundaries with it too, right? Yeah. You know, like that's at the end of it. It's like those group, we have a Facebook group in the WAF community. It is the, the original one we started was the Air Force one. And when I say we were terrified to start that Facebook group, because of our lived experience of that, we're like, we just cannot let this. Be another iteration of what we were experiencing. Yeah. Mm-hmm.'cause we know that's not the majority of spouses. Majority of spouses are those people. Like they're very independent self-starters go-getters. Like these are the fierce women that we're surrounded by. Mm-hmm. Like, where are those people?'cause that's not who I'm seeing in these Facebook groups. Yeah. So like we, we gotta give them a space and it's been so cool mm-hmm To have this Facebook group prove us wrong. Yeah. So to the point where we then opened it up for. Every branch. Yeah. Love. Um, we're like, man, what a gift that this community has given back to us of like hope and humanity of it can be. I love that this really beautiful space where you know, people, and sometimes there's a post that goes in there and we're like, who, or this is gonna be interesting to see how people respond to this, because it could go right down that negative rabbit hole, but this community, it's just that WAF mentality is, yes, we recognize that this is hard and really pushing you to your limits. Here's some things that helped me when I was in a similar situation. Take it or leave it. If you just need an ear. Like if someone to talk to you, here's my phone number, and I'm like, whoa, that's so, yeah. I love that. I wanna, yeah, speaking of that, just like where you're going with their curse, like, I wanted to hear from both of you, just like, what are your go-to like non-negotiables, like for strategies that really help your mental health, especially as you're in this space. We'll kind of go in there a little bit, um, a little bit later, just about your new transition time, right? Mm-hmm. But just thus far, um, not even talking about this transition, um, you know, what are some things that. You found helpful, like your guys' go-to strategies for kind of just for coping, the community you mentioned, but Yeah, other than that, yeah, we definitely give ourselves like 24 hours to feel sorry for ourselves. Um, and my best example of that, that I got to live out was when my husband got, had five hours notice to go to Ukraine when I was 37 weeks pregnant. And I was living in like, we. Everything mapped out for my mom to come. I know the baby stay in me. I was like, guaranteed, this is when I need you.'cause this is when I'm having my baby. We're good to go. Um, and then that just threw everything. I mean, that, that happened, I think we'd been in for eight years and like we were saying, our first few years were really tumultuous, but when it. Like you can't prepare for something like that. And it felt like I was just punched in the face and I immediately called Kirsten and I just cried and like bawled my eyes out and just really felt seen by her. She helped me come in and, um, I mean, our next thing is making sure that we have the things set up. Times like this. So I already had community. I think I had only lived there for a few months, but I already knew my people, so I immediately reached out to everybody. That is another muscle that you kind of work up as a military spouse. Not caring to ask for help. So I said, Hey, you, I'm gonna need groceries. Hey, you in a, in case anything happens and I go to the hospital, can you watch my kid setting all of the things up so that we are ready to go? So yeah, those two things we really lean on is the making sure we've got the community for the just in case and absolutely giving ourselves 24 hours. But after that, you gotta get right back to it. I mean, for us, we, we have kids. Especially for the sake of the children. Like you gotta find a way to get through. But I think allowing yourself to feel those emotions is key. Yeah. I think another big thing we've talked about more recently, like as we've gotten deeper and deeper into that, we've realized that's really helpful and we do it now more out of habit than intention, which is such a good, I mean, that's a good example of like how hard we've worked over these years of flex that muscle, flex that muscle is taking ourselves out of it. Mm-hmm. And you know, like when I really start feeling sorry for myself. I'm like, okay, I need to go do something for somebody else. Yeah.'cause I like hate the way that I'm just so self-absorbed right now. Like, this is so hard because you know that someone out there is doing something way worse than you. Mm-hmm. And you just need to give yourself a little bit of perspective. And not that that's gonna heal all your wounds, but it really will just like snap you back to a place. Mm-hmm. Like, okay. Where a community. Like I am struggling through this moment. I can get myself back over this hump a little bit by serving somebody else who's maybe in in it worse than me. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it's not like, sometimes it's just volunteering at my kids' school and seeing like all the cutie little kids' faces and you're like, okay, life is so much bigger than this moment. I'm going be okay. Yeah. Or again, you just never know what connections you're gonna make. I'm singing at my daughter's dance last night and you know, in the last few months we've been doing a lot of transition stuff. My husband's been gone at trainings and I've felt sorry for myself a lot of times in this season. And I'm just sitting there and this woman sits down and another lady next to her says, and how long is your husband gonna be gone point? She says, three months. And I mean, I've sat by this woman, I've talked to her. Our kids are gonna go to school together next year. I. Oh, that just raised a hair. What does your husband do? And she's like, oh, he's a helicopter pilot in the Army. I'm like, I had no idea. Mm-hmm. Like here I was feeling sorry for myself. You totally get, he's been in for 24 years. Like, you really get it right. So just being able to open yourself up, like Kirsten was saying, like you just never know who you're gonna meet. You never know what different perspective that you're gonna have. And it, it is nice in that moment to not even feel alone. Like I feel less sorry for myself because I just feel like we're doing the thing together. Yeah. No, I love that. I think, yeah, I mean, obviously, um, not feeling sorry for yourself and giving yourself kind of like a timer to sit in it, I think is really important. And not just like glaze past, like what's happened mm-hmm. And brush it under the rug, but like, okay, I am processing this, but like there's kind of a timestamp on it. And I think when you have kids, like I'm learning my. My daughter wrote, just turned one, but I'm learning too, right? Like kind of have to take yourself out of it. Mm-hmm. Um, and you don't have that much time to, to write as, be as selfish as you once did. Yeah. So like that, there's that piece of it too. And so I, I, I mean, I love that. I think, I'm curious to hear like how you guys, it sounds like you guys have been there for each other. Um, and just talking about like mental health here for a second. Um, you know, at any time you guys have maybe been thinking that you needed to reach out for mental health support mm-hmm. Or if there have been people from your community that have wanted to reach out for mental health, like when, what does that process kind of look like and what are, what are the kind of stuck points and like themes that you're seeing maybe like within your community for, for that mental health like intersection? Yeah. I think that goes back to what Jen was saying about, uh, being prepared when you first get somewhere, using that adrenaline to set up all of your support systems, in my opinion, like that includes mental health. Mm-hmm. So like, have that plan in your back pocket of when I start to feel like I, it's, it's bigger than me. I need to really seek some support elsewhere. Mm-hmm. You already know where you're going. You're not trying to, while you're in crisis. Yeah. Look up. Where to go. Not that you can't, but it's just, it's nice to have that, like here's the resource. I'm using it, and I remember when we were first coming to this assignment. We knew we were coming here. I had a 2-year-old and a two and a half month old, and my husband's like, I'm gonna be gone for four straight weeks. Mm-hmm. Like within a month and a half of me being here, I was like, oh, okay. Alright. Like what does this look like? I went from a very remote location where we were at. I. To a very metropolitan area. And I was stressed the first time I went to Target here by myself with the kids. I was so overwhelmed. I was so terrified. Like someone was gonna snatch me or the kids,'cause there was just so many people and I wasn't used to it. Like my anxiety was through the roof. And that was a good indicator for me of like, okay, I need to start rallying the wagons here and get some support. And you know, I was honest with people in my life too, of like. This is harder than I thought. Here's the areas I'm struggling. And then the next follow up I did was starting to get therapists on the hook of like, all right, mm-hmm. Who could I, who could I see if I get to that side? Like calling already, like, do, are you accepting new clients? Do you accept Tricare? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like doing the whole nine so that I had these appointments ready to go if I needed to take advantage of them. Um, and fortunately, I mean, a lot of people, I think this is the case with them of, you know, one session of talk therapy can really do you a lot of. A lot of wonders. Mm-hmm. Um, but to be able to maintain throughout that time, that four weeks that he was gone and rely on that resource, was so important for me to be able to take it to somebody else and not build resentment with my spouse. Wow. Or rely on, um, him to help me get through some of those tough emotions. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, the resentment piece. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, that's so strong.'cause you hear that as such a common thread within the community and so many, um, spouses kind of hold onto that even unknowingly sometimes, right? Where you're just like, I'm cool, I'm cool, cool. I'm fine, I'm good. No, like then there's all of a sudden, right? Something that indicates that you're not fine. But I love that you're able to look at like. Those cues for you. Mm-hmm. And just recognizing like, okay, here's where my like, you know, kind of red flag is going up where I like need some more support. So that's cool for you. Right? Yeah. I went through it recently whenever we kind of like had the trifecta of life changes. I mean similar to what Kirsten was going through too. But with us getting out, I mean, something that we've heard a lot with transition is like, it is such a big. Change for the service member that like just them going through that on their own without even thinking about their family is like a major identity crisis. So I already knew that going into it. And then we had a new baby and then we're moving from an OCONUS assignment. So it was just a lot. Hot and heavy. Um, and just seeing that like stress of my husband trying to get a new job and thankfully again, having people surrounding me that were able to say like, Hey, this is the time that while we can nitpick my husband and be like, he might be handling things in a certain type of way where he needs support. I also need support and I can watch myself again on the resentment side of the house. Um, so there's MFLs and there's multiple different things within the military sphere, um, that are free resources. And so just being able to encourage my husband, like, Hey, this is not like a weakness to go and talk to somebody. What you're going through is actually really crazy and hard. I wouldn't wanna go through that without support, and I do wanna support you, but I'm also going through my own really hard things right now. With the same transitions you're going through. So together we need to have somebody else to lean on and bringing in an outside resource. I mean, I think growing up in Arkansas there was a lot of talk about like having mentors and having people who are life stages ahead of you to speak into your marriage and how valuable that is. And that is so valuable. And for the military community, we don't have all the time, so resource. To come in as a third party just to kind of like, it was so cool. I mean, I really appreciate it. I haven't done a ton of therapy, so it was just really cool to hear him like siloing on my husband and be like, we're talking about you, and then silo it on me and be like, okay, we're talking about you and like how you are handling some of these things for yourself and for how he's handling it. Um, it was really eyeopening, just like Kirsten was saying, like even that. It just feels good to just not carry that anymore. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. I love hearing that. Yeah. You guys have kind of each experienced that in your own unique way, and I think, yeah, there's just a lot of resistance to sometimes seeking that mental health support because you are. Having a certain type of personality style if you're even in, in this life, right? Whether you're the service member or the spouse. So there's some resistance to that for sure. And I think, um, yeah, again, just utilizing that as a tool and really just reframing your mindset of using it as a proactive tool before. Mm-hmm. Shit gets really hard before you have to pull the e-brake. Right? Like it's setting things up so that we can be successful. And I think like a lot of the clients that I, I see too in my private practice, you know, we talk about getting you out of, you know, out of crisis and reducing symptoms and all the things, and then you're kind of just like. Filling the tank, like you're literally just checking your oil. We're just making sure everything's running smoothly. Like, it isn't that nice because things are good. We wanna keep them, keep them good. Um, but yeah. And then just ultimately, I think setting yourself up for when these, these massive transitions like do happen, you're getting like, all at once, right? Yeah. So it's a, it's a lot like, what, what do you feel like. Makes this transition. I mean, you're, it's so big all at once. Mm-hmm. With your littles too. Um, what are you doing to like, take care of yourself really? I mean, what does that kind of, the day-to-day practices look like for you? Yeah, I mean, so I've been postpartum. I just finished one year also. My son just turned one. Amazing. And so during it, I was very much in my postpartum season. And with this, he's my third baby, so I dealt with a lot of like postpartum anxiety from my second kid just. Thinking I could do all of the things, putting a lot of pressure on myself. My first kid was with COVID, so I had no pressure. Um, and so I learned a lot and I learned that really to speak up for myself and say like, here's what I need for healing, because mom has to heal so the whole family can function really well. And so I did such a good job at that at my third time, and I felt so calm and collected and then I just. Lost all of it in the move. And I was taking energy drinks late at night and I was doing everything like opposite that you should for my hormones. So things really got a haywire and I was trying to feel overwhelmed all the time and I could tell that my health was in the tank. So just really bringing that back to my husband again of like, okay, you know, that I'm not okay. I'm not okay as a wife or a mom or a person. Um, so together we are going to. Prioritize, like my health, my wellness, obviously that's. Kids get to see mom working out all the time. So whether I'm going to the gym or doing something at home and then making sure that I'm nourishing myself. We're also in a major budget cutback season because we took a pay cut. And so finding ways to still eat healthy and be healthy, that are affordable, um, it's been a fun challenge. But yeah, just every like day by day, finding ways to lower my stress, um, so that I can get back. To my common collected. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. I think, yeah, I mean, realizing that. The impact that all of those things have on your, on your hormones. I think like trying to get through something as big as like a move with like all your littles, right? Mm-hmm. You're kind of just in survival mode, but yeah, you realize that the super easy, you know, decision decisions that you're making with maybe the energy drinks are quick, quick solves. Like you're just not super serving you. They feel like they are in that moment, but then you see like the long-term impact on your, your mood and your mental health and your, your sleep and all those things, right? So, yeah, it's wild. Yeah, but what a cool example. I mean, obviously setting a good example for your kiddos of like, oh, this is, you know, this is how mom feels better, because yeah, that's an important practice to have. Yeah. Ki do you have any, um, practices, like daily practices that you like to implement? Um, I think movement is a big one. And I think it, it's interesting because I look back on that first assignment. I call her Tacoma Kirsty.'cause that was. Where we live. Um, and I look back on her and I'm like, I was not prioritizing being active at all. I was working, um, an awesome job. Like I loved what I was doing. It was right in my wheelhouse and it was pouring into that, but I wasn't really pouring into anything else. I was just like, oh, well this is like my escape. Like, you've got your thing, I've got my thing. And so I think what I've learned over the years is a better balance of that. Like I still have my things, but I've shifted my priorities in a way that make more sense for me and my overall health. And the health of our family. So there is, it's not, and when I say balance, it doesn't mean like 50 50, it just means like that list of priorities is. Aligned. It is correct, it is accurate with our family's moral values. Um, and it makes sense for us. And so for me, like moving, we both are very active. My husband and I both very active. Our kids are very active, so we spend a lot of time outside. We spend, we go to the gym, we make sure that we're eating healthy as much as possible. You know, we don't eat out a lot. Um, and when we do, we usually regret it because we feel. Awful. Um, it's fun. It's always so fun. But then I'm like, oh, why do I feel like I slept awful last night? And I'm like, dang it. Dang it. And you're like, why did I pay four times as much for something that I can make better? I know. And that's like the other part is like, okay, so we've ruined everything that we like to eat out. Yes. Um, but little things like that. And then it's interesting to see like how those pour into other areas on that priority list. So like, we are both very much quality time people. That's very much what fills this up. And so. I've learned, like I used to try to work on certain projects after the kids would go to bed. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, I feel like that's kinda what you're told online. Like you work when the kids sleep, like that's when you're able to squeeze it in and that's how you're able to be a mom and a working at home mom and all these things at once. And I'm like, okay, something's gotta get, that's not working. We're both angry because I'm on my computer over here while we're supposed to be spending quality time. And the second we started realizing those things and just. Shifting back to that balance in our priorities, um, everything started meshing well. And so I feel like we're in a really good place and that's ultimately what led us to that decision to stay in, is if we were not, we would not have said yes to that, but both of us felt very strongly like we have more to give. Like this is a calling to service that we both feel very honored to step into and we feel like we were equipped to handle it and that the last 10 years of service have. Paved the way for that. Like we've, we've learned a, we're, we got a lot more lessons to learn, but we feel like we have a really sturdy foundation to walk forward on. And I think that's the key of just like, keep trying stuff until it works for you. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I love that. That's literally my, yeah. My alarm bells are going like, ding, ding, ding. Literally before my, uh, my husband Austin just left to go take her daughter on a hike. I was like, I need the, I need the room for the podcast. I can't be in that sad office downstairs. The background sucks. And he is like, you're not supposed to be working so much like this. This feels like a lot. So literally right before this podcast, we, you know, we had a discussion about that, and it's just, yeah. So to your point of like trying to balance like, okay, what does that kind of look like? Like I have a nonprofit, I have a for-profit, I have a 1-year-old daughter. We're going through IVF and my husband, from his perspective, he's like, just slow down lady. Like, what, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, slow it down. And I'm thinking like, I can make this all work. Like I can make this all work. Yeah. But, but his responses to things are clearly making me. Feel like I'm, I'm not like, okay. Like, that is a lot. Like, I guess when you're saying that all out loud and I'm like processing it, I'm like, oh shit. Like yeah, that's, that's a lot of things. Like I should probably stop the thing. Right? Yeah. Um, but, but yeah, I think figuring that out is so important and mm-hmm. Having that communication is, is so important. And I love to hear like, you know, Chris, you shared, I wanna hear from you too, Jen, just about your, how you guys balance that. You know, the relationship like with your spouse and like that time management and what that does look like.'cause you guys are so busy with waf. You have your kiddos, like you have your lives and your relationship is important. Like, yeah. What, how, how does that work? And Chris, how did that, how did that pivot then look for you to not, you know, to be the after 8:00 PM. On your laptop then, like what did that shift to and how's that all working? Like maybe pick that up and then we can give Jen a chance to chime in. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it, from the very beginning, our guys were huge part of us doing this. Um, we had to have their buy-in 100% from the beginning. Like we were not gonna do anything. Related without their buy-in.'cause we knew like it, first of all, we needed their brains like We need, we need you, you for information. Um, but also we really knew we needed that support because, I mean, imposter syndrome is a very real thing. We recognize we're two Air force spouses and the huge picture of the military with two very unique experiences that don't translate across the board to every single person. So we knew we had to be very intentional about making sure that there was a representation of voices. Somewhere within the space, like how does that look? And we tested a bunch of different things over the years. Um, so that buy-in from them was from the gate. And then over the years, what that's looked like is constant communication of mm-hmm. Okay. So I hear you saying you don't like me working when we're supposed to be spending quality time together when the kids go to bed, where do I get that time back then? Help me find a solution. Um, because man, if we know anything about males, they love helping you solve a problem. Oh, mm-hmm. Solutions all about it. Yes. And I'm like, I don't need a s You know, it's always, that's always argument like, I don't need a solution or need you to hear me for a minute. But there's sometimes when you do need a solution, I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna take the work off of my plate. I'm gonna give it to you like, you don't like this, so like, tell me what you want. Mm-hmm. Where can we make this back? And it's been really cool to see him step into pride for my job because he is like, oh, like I'm taking leave so that you can travel to go do this thing. I'm like, what am like, that's the hottest thing that you can do. Yeah. I'm like, that's so cool. And our kids see that like, mom's gonna work and dad's holding it down. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, that's so awesome. And I love being able to brag on that. I love that. It's a bunch of little things all the time too. Like one of my favorite things that he does is he will cook for us before he leaves. Awesome. So like our freezer is always stocked with dad's pancakes, and that's a huge win for our family. That's awesome. It's one, I don't have to worry about breakfast. We're having pancakes all week and two, like it's a way for us to talk about Dad every single morning. He is there with you when he is gone. That's so cool. Yes. So it's like a bunch of little things that have happened over the course of time that we've just figured out, like this works really well for us. Yeah, and I love. Just having people around you that challenge you and Kirsten challenges me and my husband very much challenges me. They're actually very similar personalities, and so they both kind of like, Jen, I see your shit, so let's talk about this. Um, but just like being open to that and open to that feedback. And so there's times that I will tell Kirsten about my schedule and she'll say, Hmm. And then there's times that I'll go to my husband and vice versa. She'll go, husband, we're doing this for work. Like, but how, tell explain how this makes. They are sacrificing for us. So they're like, tell us how this makes sense for your moving your business forward. And there's been times that then Kirsten and I look at each other, we're like, actually, that made no sense. We're like, well, we'll be right back. Yeah. That's such a good point. No, that's such a good point. Like, leave it to the, the males in our lives to like, tell us where the ROI is. Like we see it exactly as like, right. It's like, no, no, but seriously, like, is this making money or can this make money? Or how does this make sense? And I'm like, oh, they're like feeling badly to say, like by saying no is not a reason. Like that's not a good enough reason. Yes. We need a reminder of that. Mm-hmm. And we all need a reminder. Yeah. That accountability piece is like super important. And there's been times where we're like, it stinks. Like it sucks. I'm like, yeah. But then I come back, I'm like, yeah, you're right. Like it's fine. Like I have no problem saying you're right. Like, got it. Yeah. Yeah. And then that happens in reverse too, with their job. Exactly. I mean, I've, we were just having that conversation because we're dealing with a new squadron now. New pace of life, figuring it out. We had it all figured out. Now we have to start all over. Mm-hmm. And I push him back too. I'm like, okay, I hear you saying you have to be at this promotion event. Like, is that a have to like. They're, you're gonna get in trouble. Mm-hmm. Or is it like, I have to, like, you just really want to be there. Yeah. Like, I'm happy to prioritize it if it's you wanna be there. But if, you know, if something comes up and like, you don't have to be there, that's gonna be the first thing that goes Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's such a good point. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I think vice versa, right? Like being the, being the challenger and pushing back is, is super important. And, um. We've definitely had our share of that honestly, than I for sure. It's, it's years of building that communication so that it's coming more from a place of like, I honor and respect you. Mm-hmm. Versus a place of like, Hey, this seems like a waste of my time. Um, and I mean, it starts like a one day, one of Explain your job to me. I don't need to know exactly how to fly an airplane. I just need to know where I can see the priorities in your job so I can best support you. And then vice versa. And feeling really seen by that. Yeah. Yeah. How do we fit in and what do we wanna prioritize? And again, like what curse and I think both I. Both of you have said is just ultimately prioritizing like the family values and kind of the framework, the broader framework of like where you kind of fit into this, to this world. How you're, how you're both together, gonna make it all work, you know? Yeah. I think is, it's important, but, and compromise is a big piece of that. Yeah. Um, yeah. I wanted to touch on a little bit like your. Um, you know, just your community and some of the threads and like patterns that you are kind of seeing your community talk about, right? Like in the Facebook group and, and, and otherwise, just as far as like. The topic of mental health goes and resources. Mm-hmm. And what, that's what that kind of looks like. Like what are, um, you know, what are these wives searching for the most? Right. The community piece obviously is like at the forefront, I think, right? Yeah. But what else are you guys kind of seeing that's interesting. That's coming up. Yeah, I was gonna say, friends are definitely like the first thing. Yeah. And I think it's a really tough thing because they see. You know, they're told often we will all three here sit and say some of the best people we've met have been because of the military. Mm-hmm. And then we have these brand new spouses coming in. Like, where are those people? Yeah. Where are you meeting those people? And we're like scratching our heads, like how did we meet them? You know? So you really have to think back to your younger self and those experiences and those moments of vulnerability of like, wow, I was really putting myself out there like. Kind of desperate on Bumble little. Yeah. Just doing whatever I could and encouraging them like you're not, there's no stupid question. Like you use that new girl mentality and roll with it. Like take pride in that and wear it like a badge of honor and go in and meet people. Yeah. But I think that like that community piece is definitely the biggest piece. Mm-hmm. Um, I think another. Big part of it right now is just like, uh, PCSing and the frequency of that and the financial strain that that causes on families. And you're seeing that really pop up in a lot of different areas, right? Like that's where you see childcare become problematic. Mm-hmm. You can't afford it, you can't get into it like none of that. And then food insecurity, like that's another big one that's hitting, um, enlisted families, especially right now. Mm-hmm. Which is awful. Like no one in our military should. Not be able to feed their family. Yeah. That's insane. Um, but we're seeing that as a, you know, in relation to the PCs cycle and how often that's happening. Yeah, yeah. And then that's where we bring it all back to community because there's all these different resources. I can't remember, it was something I think mom related that we learned recently that was like. Some sort of resource for moms that like, you could get free. I'm gonna actually make something up. Like you can get like free overnight, um, nurse support with a newborn. I like kind of feel like there's something like that out there. You'll have to look it up. But something like that. But like Kirsten and I were sitting there, we're like, oh man, we've been like actually running a resource business for the last eight years and we had no idea. That is where the community comes in. Like you can really feel like you are. Dropped with your finances and then say, that's one of the things that I actually love about this, um, this life, is that everyone's finances are essentially published online. Yeah. So we can talk a little bit more openly about it. And again, you can find yourself in, like, our guys would go on all these trips and then everyone would ball out and like, spend all this money. You're in Turkey, you gotta get a leather jacket and all this stuff. How about said her? Oh, I didn't know that we could have a budget on the road. And so then you go and talk to your spouse because of community, you're actually moving up and helping your finances.'cause we're in it. You're in it. So you gotta figure out how to get through it. And we feel like community is the best way to do that. Um, so we are really happy that people are seeking that for their support. But I. Maybe we've got like one or two more years left to ride this like COVID community change. But I think leading up to it, people were really turning away from the old guard and saying like, I want nothing to do with the military. I'm just a spouse or a partner. Um. I don't see the need. And then COVID happened and everyone's like, oh my gosh, here I'm on an island by myself. I dunno anybody. Mm-hmm. And I re we're really starting to see a change. Like people are wanting that in-person connection. I think that there's a lot of energy that can come from that. Like, you might not be new. You can, you can still ride that COVID wave of like, but I'm still here post COVID. So like I need to meet people. I think that that's really powerful right now. And I mean, her and I are looking into that as well. We're trying to take our community to be IRL as well. Um, we just see so much value in that in person connection. There really is, I think like, yeah, as like a. Therapist who does a lot of telehealth in the different states that I'm licensed in. But there's such a, yeah, there is such a craving I think for that in-person connection. And some of my favorite, you know, sessions that I had back when we were at McDill, where my in-person walk and talk sessions where we'd like walk and like benefit, like it's such a, such a benefit. Um, yeah. To walking and talking and. All the processing and therapeutic value that comes from like the, the movement and then being outside. Mm-hmm. And then be on top of it and I'm like, oh, I wanna get back to that DC will. Cool. More challenging. That's so cool. I'm like thinking we could do some like farm. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Sometimes, especially when I was like eight months pregnant, I was like, yeah, no, no clients, uh, past like 9:00 AM please. Like 6:00 AM to 9:00 AM only like I can, yes, mama can't hang, but like, yeah, DC will be a little bit more challenging. But I've been thinking about that as well. Like, how could I do some. Walk and talks at some, like some farms, some farms near me. Yeah. You know, but we'll figure it out. But yeah, the in-person connection, people crave it. You guys see it, you hear about it and like it's, it's super important.'cause it's so easy to just get like wrapped up and, yeah. You know, when I, I was in, you know, when we were in Tampa, I, you know, I was so, I just felt so isolated. Like there was no community. I didn't really mm-hmm. Start to see the signs of me, like going in. My husband like pointed those out. And he is like, have you talked to anyone that like, you didn't, you know, that didn't pay you today? And I'm like, oh, like reality check? No. Like nine days in a row. I'm like, okay, got it. Like, I need friends. Yeah. I need to figure something out. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, putting yourself out there is, is important. And you know, when you're on, on your screen online, in your house and your own little bubble. Yeah. You don't really see how much that that impacts you sometimes, but it absolutely, it absolutely does. And, you know, leave it to your, maybe a little bit of a hot take, but I think that this is where the military community is missing a lot, which is the in-person events that have, are being offered. Mm. For the most part, are really gimmicky. Mm-hmm. And I think they're just. It's not an event. People are like, man, I can't wait to be there. Yeah. But they're going out of desperation because they wanna connect with other people. So True. But it's not like, it's something that's really giving them a whole lot. Yeah. Um, and then they're maybe walking away with a personal connection or a little bit of the warm fuzzies, but it's not lasting. And I just, I, I, and you know, I hate like. Being the person that's like, I, you know, here's the problem. But I don't necessarily have the full answer. I don't think that there is one right answer. I just think that it's going to, it needs to be more about authentic connection. Mm. And less about like, here's this big production and propping up this event. Yeah. Because they wanna help military families. You know, it's like if you wanna help like then hear us out, like mm-hmm. Want that type of event. Like I honestly just a round table with some other spouses, give us chips and queso and like, we're good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For real. Yeah. That's all we need. You give us the place and this the space to do it and like we'll do the rest. Yep. That's so isn't that like Yeah, I mean, not to, I won't, I won't get on a soapbox too much, but like, just in, just in. Promoting and, and trying to connect with, with, you know, our nonprofit and trying to connect with different areas, different, you know, point of contacts within the military, like the family advocacy nurses and new parent support programs and military life family counselors and chaplains and like all these amazing people that, um. We've had some great connections come from that. Right. But then we've also, um, had just such frustration because the military is so compartmentalized. Mm-hmm. And like it's so challenging. And the decision makers who are actually responsible for like. Shifting policy and shifting some of these like events and different things like that, and hearing the voices that they say are so important to be heard. Well, gosh, we're not getting a ton of like, of FaceTime, like with, with these people. Right. So it's, it's super challenging for sure. But we're, you know, I got Jessica as my like, amazing ride or die program manager and she, she's awesome and we're making a lot of headway with that. But, but just, just to make sure that we're. Getting like our mission out there and like our voices are being heard because there's so much of a, of a discrepancy between, um, the boots on the ground like the, the service members and the spouses that are in it. Yeah. And, and the folks that are making these decisions that directly impact us, right. Like from so many different. Standpoint. So it's, it's trying to Yeah, just again, you just gotta poke and poke and poke and try and, and make those connections until you reach the right person who knows that person who can shift something. Right. Yeah. But just keep being loud. We'll just keep being loud. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, that's, that's the best thing. And Chris, I'm excited to Yeah. Have you so close too. Yeah, I think that'll be cool. We're gonna be doing, um, we haven't solidified the dates just yet for our, uh, our scramble, our golf, our golf, charity, golf, uh, fundraiser, which is gonna be happening. So we're. Playing around with having it like either on base, um, or yeah, at another, at another location. But once we like nail down the dates, that would be super cool if, if you come she's a girl to, that would be about it. They're a big golf family. I'm a big golf family. Oh man. I'm, I'm not a, I've never golfed one time in my life on an actual golf course, but I've hit ball lot'cause I started doing it bef when I got pregnant and I was like, well. It's a little hard to learn golf when you have a huge belly. Yeah. So then took a pause and now I'm getting back into it. My husband loves golfing, so the kids golf. Oh my gosh. At this point. But I'm hanging in there. So fun. I know I can hang. It's not my favorite. I'm volleyball player, you know. Yeah, by by trade, but like golfing is a lifelong sport. Easier on the body. It could do it at any age. Yeah. So I'm like, I gotta that and pickleball, I gotta figure something out. So Yeah, I know. There we go. Let's do a pickleball charity. Yeah. I'm really in for that. I know. There's so many. I'm like, gosh, has the golf. The golf tournament like played out. My husband's just like, no. I promise you. There's like literally like 12 contractors I work with. That's great. That'll sign up now, I think. I think, not like I feel like golf really ever had a lull, but I feel like there's a big resurgence. It's, yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think a lot of charities right now are five Ks, which is great, but I'm like, mm-hmm. I can't even, if I have to write a list of five Ks right now for charities, I'm like, holy moly. Right. I'd be running every day for 365 days. There are so many. I know. It's. So it's so hard to think of like, and it's aggressive. It's like, why? Why do we have to be running to do this? I would much rather back to chips in queso. Yeah. Back to the back to that. Exactly. Yes. Noted. Noted. Okay. Next. Next fundraiser. We're just gonna do a fertility round table with. Chips and queso. Got it. Okay. Jessica, when you're listening to this, we'll, yeah, we'll, we'll put that on the, on, on calendar. This idea, we'll make zero. It'll be like, great. We're all about zero logistics over here at my Warrior. Love it. Yeah. So that, that sounds great. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Do you guys have any, you know, any lasting, um, you know, advice that, that you wanna kind of leave our, our guests with? I mean, our audience primarily is. Yeah, I mean, service members of every branch, any r um, maybe they're struggling with fertility, mental health. A lot of them have that overlap. Right. Yeah. Um, but especially I think we, we talked a lot about mental health, um, this episode, but yeah. Anything that you wanna, any, any golden nugget that you wanna kind of leave our, our listeners with as far as what they can do if they're really struggling right now? Yeah. I feel like the, I just want you to know that the best. Tool that you have is within yourself. And I think that you can hear like, oh, they overcame this and they overcame that. I just need to know what the secret is. And it's that drive within you to pull yourself outta it. And it might not be just like a big awake thing one day, but it's okay. I know that if I just do this one thing tomorrow, it's going to get me one step closer. And it's nobody around you. It is all. You, which hopefully is just encouraging and not defeating. Um. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I would echo that same thing of, of really just being bold and exactly who you are and knowing that you're capable of handling what you are presented with right now. Mm-hmm. One day at a time, one step at a time, like you will get through this somehow you've gotten through things that are very challenging and difficult before, and really keeping that perspective of, um, it, it's like taking yourself out of it a little bit. Mm-hmm. And keeping that perspective of being able to pour into others when you feel like you can't even pour into yourself and it will fuel you to then. Get back on the horse. Yep. Oh, I love that so much. Amazing. Thank you guys so much for just being on the podcast, for everything that you've had to say. I've just really enjoyed getting to know you as much as possible, and hopefully we can connect, um, in the future, have you back for round two. I would love that. Of course. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been such a treat. Yay. Okay. Thank you guys for listening and we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks so much for joining us on the Mindful Warrior Alliance Podcast. If today's episode spoke to you in some way, share it with your friend and leave us a review. It helps us to reach more warriors like you. Don't forget to follow us on social media and head to mindful warrior alliance.org to connect with our community access resources and stay up to date on what's coming up next. Until next time, take care of your mind. Stay strong and be mindful.