Leadership, Culture, and the Future of Hospitality

In this episode of The Leadership Table, host Jason E. Brooks sits down with Sunny Ashman—Founder & CEO of AmpliSKY Franchise Consulting—for a powerful conversation on what it really takes to build high-performing teams, retain talent, and lead with empathy.

Sunny brings over 15 years of franchise and operations experience at brands like Moe’s Southwest Grill, Cinnabon, and Popeyes. She opens up about her leadership journey, the power of two-minute huddles, why feedback is a gift, and how culture—not just compensation—drives retention.

Whether you're leading a restaurant, managing a brand, or growing your next team of rockstars, this episode will inspire and equip you with practical tools that work.

🎯 Topics We Cover:

• Emotional intelligence and trust
• The power of team huddles and onboarding
• Why retention is about belonging
• Mentorship, GLEAM, and WiRL insights
• Building leadership without micromanaging

🎧 Listen now on your favorite podcast platform or YouTube.

🔗 Connect with Sunny Ashman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnyashman
📢 More leadership tools: https://jasonebrooks.com
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🟡 Buzzsprout Episode: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2471668/episodes/17261583

Watch on YouTube:
📺 https://youtu.be/YmqkPSB8Xg8

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Leadership and Sunny Ashman
• 2:14 Sunny's Journey to Leadership
• 5:33 Qualities of Effective Leaders
• 10:50 Strategies for High-Performing Teams
• 16:54 Impact of Workplace Culture and Leadership Development
• 24:50 Organizations Supporting Women in Leadership
• 28:55 Personal Reflections and Influential Leaders

Transcript

Jason E. Brooks (00:01)

All righty, so welcome to The Leadership Table where conversations inspire, lead and elevate. I'm your host, Jason E. Brooks, bringing you insights from top leaders who are shaping industries through leadership, culture and success. Now today we have the pleasure of speaking with Sunny Ashman, the founder and CEO of AmpliSky Franchise Consulting. Sunny has over 15 years of experience.

developing high performing teams and launching strategic initiatives across operations, training, franchise development, human resources and marketing. Her impressive career includes leadership roles at brands like Moe's Southwest Grill, Cinnabon and one of my personal favorites Popeyes. Sunny also serves as the executive co-chair of NextUp Atlanta, a woman's leadership development organization.

Sunny Ashman (00:37)

Thank

Jason E. Brooks (00:58)

and has been actively involved in mentorship programs like GLEAM and WiRL. Before we dive in though, be sure to subscribe and share this episode with fellow leaders who could benefit from today's discussion. Sunny, welcome to The Leadership Table. Now we've known each other for years, so what's been going on?

Sunny Ashman (01:22)

How are you? Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and thank you for that intro. Yeah.

Jason E. Brooks (01:30)

You know, it's it's hard to put ⁓ a perfect intro with someone that does as many things as you do and not in a bad way, not in a not in a Swiss Army knife way, but in a way that you have found a way to understand where your skill set is needed. And people have reached out, bringing you on board of important projects. But still.

Sunny Ashman (01:38)

Ha ha ha!

Jason E. Brooks (02:00)

I want you to talk about your career path, what led you to take on leadership roles in this industry. So wherever you see fit, just let us know about Sunny.

Sunny Ashman (02:14)

Okay, all right. Well, the real bio about Sunny. ⁓ No, so I've always been driven, ⁓ naturally took on more responsibility in my career. I'll tell you when I was 10 years old and people would say, know, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I would say, I want to be a CEO. Like I remember distinctly having this conversation and somebody said, you want to be a CEO, which was not a typical response for 12 year olds back in, I'm not going to say when, but a long time ago.

and you know.

I just, said, I want to lead people. Like I just knew that it was in me. And so in middle school and in high school, I served as a peer counselor. I don't know if you have those in your school, but you know, I look back and I realized that was one of my first steps into servant leadership. ⁓ I think leadership for me has always been rooted in service. So I very much feel strongly about helping others grow, building strong teams, creating environments where people are seen and supported. And luckily,

I mean, I didn't grow up in the restaurant industry. You know, I worked at Quiznos in college for like a few weeks. ⁓ A few weeks. So I don't think that was my career trajectory. I actually did advertising for five years before I started in this business. But, you know.

There are hundreds and thousands of people in the restaurant space and hospitality space. And so it really is a great industry. They gave me the perfect platform to be the leader that I have become because you get forced to lead and to grow. And it's just been such a pleasure to be in this industry and meet people like you and a lot of people that we've worked with at Focus Brands. it's just, it's been amazing.

Jason E. Brooks (04:07)

You know, you are spot on about the fact that, you know, leadership isn't really a industry. You know, you can take those talents, those things that are executed on through a leadership mindset into any industry. It's like I always say, you can be great at making burgers, but then one day you may have to lead a team with rolling some burritos.

then you may be great at that. And then you have to lead a team at fine dining and then refined dining to catering and catering to marketing from marketing to IT. The fact though is that the leadership mindset and skillset is still able to be ⁓ done across multiple industries in multiple settings. The key is just those key factors that leads you to.

not only be a great follower because leaders also follow as well, but to know how to help the team see what that next step is, create that clear vision and help them reach that destination. Now, like I said, leadership is is truly evolving across multiple industries. What do you believe are the most important qualities of an effective leader in today's hospitality landscape?

Sunny Ashman (05:33)

My gosh, so in all I mean across all industries, know Leadership is is pretty general right and I'd say there's probably 15 Key qualities right but we don't have time for all that so I really think

Empathy and emotional intelligence. I mean we can hear about EQ and what have you but it's real it is being able to See the team that you are leading and understand where they're coming from ⁓ understand, you know at our level even at the restaurant level like

know your team, right? Do I have to adjust my schedule for somebody that needs child care or ⁓ you know, it's all about understanding the people that you're leading and creating that sense of belonging where they can be authentic and be their self because that creates fierce loyalty, right? And so we'll talk, I think we'll talk about retention a little bit later because every industry is hit by it, but we certainly are. ⁓ And going back to something you said earlier,

as clear communication is

on so many levels, right? Clear communication could be setting that North Star, right? Letting people understand the why. I tell people all the time, people have to understand the why because they want to be part of something bigger, right? And so having that clear communication and then being, holding people accountable, right? You got to trust but verify. And so you have to dance that fine line between holding people accountable and micromanaging, right? Like there is a difference.

Jason E. Brooks (07:00)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sunny Ashman (07:16)

So good leaders are able to kind of know the difference and I think in the hospitality setting, you know, one of my biggest I feel like the biggest thing that you can do as a leader is Those two-minute huddles like those pre shift huddles in any in any industry really because it gives people a platform to hear Reiterate what their expect your expectations are of them, but then also a platform to ask questions, right or I

I

actually heard Amy Hom say this at WiRL and she does a heart check at some of her meetings. And so she will say, you know, on a one to five, where is your heart today? And so I don't remember the details of what she said, the measurements, but I found it profound because she was like, if someone's at a three or below and I know I have to deliver tough news.

I'm not doing it at that time because they're not going to receive it. Right. And so that kind of goes back to that emotional intelligence and that empathy of really understanding and personalizing your relationship with each person that you lead. And it's so important. It's so, so important.

Jason E. Brooks (08:12)

Mm.

You just dropped a ton of golden knowledge. I hope everyone can go back and truly listen to every piece of that. One of the first pieces that stuck out to me in that is that making sure that leaders understand that you have to adapt to the team or person that you are leading. If you try to do it all the same,

Sunny Ashman (08:33)

Thanks. ⁓

Jason E. Brooks (08:56)

You are not going to get the right results. You have to know how to how to change yourself according to the team that you're trying to lead. The other piece that I really like is the Simon Sinek piece. Start with why he's one of the most amazing authors, most amazing speakers, keynote speakers. But starting with why helps to helps to helps to really pierce through the fog.

of what everyone asks, why are we doing this or why are we making this change? Another piece that you went into was the huddles. The huddles, absolutely. And whenever we think about human beings, human beings aren't robots. Even the best leaders aren't robots. Why? Because we have everything that's on our mind, from bills to family to...

Sunny Ashman (09:35)

Mm-hmm.

Jason E. Brooks (09:53)

financials to doctor visits to all of that good stuff. And that two to three minute huddle in any industry, as soon as someone walks in helps to what I like to say, orient them of what direction is success. Orientation isn't just the first two weeks or first week that someone comes on board. You orient them every single day to make sure that they understand

Sunny Ashman (10:14)

ongoing.

Jason E. Brooks (10:22)

where for their role for the day that they should be heading. And then of course, that final piece with the emotional intelligence. I can't say it any better. You nailed it. So thank you so much. Now you dropped a lot of great nuggets, but of course people want to know what strategies can leaders use to create high performing, engaged teams, especially

in a fast moving industry like hospitality. So what type of strategies, what type of strategies can leaders use in order to build those teams?

Sunny Ashman (11:02)

You know, I think it's, it goes a lot to the setting up that expectations and the goals and that true north. ⁓ Like we just said, because I think in addition to what we just shared, but that true north helps people by understanding like, what is the end goal? What is the end game? People then can strategize, right? So where I think maybe my vision is we're gonna do it this way. If people know, hey, this is our end goal.

they're gonna come up with ways that you never thought of, of how to get there, right? And so creating that true north and then like continuously communicating on it and then communicating measure is really, really important.

I would also say, and I didn't think of this earlier, but you said onboarding. I remember reading that in your book and was like, my gosh, yes, yes. So this, it's constant, right? It's creating the who. Like when you're onboarding, it's who and why, but it's also creating a culture of belonging and recognition. I'm gonna tell you a story. ⁓ I had a new hire at Cinnabon.

And I had worked with him before, but I wanted him to feel super welcome because on his first day, I was not able to be at the office because we had region meetings. So I wasn't going to be at the office and. ⁓

we had HR was doing like their onboarding every two weeks. So like this was the day he had to start. And ⁓ I decorated his cube like welcome and all of this stuff and had all this swag and whatever. And then he had to do the half day onboarding. They took him by his desk. He was so excited. And then he had to go to the airport and fly to come to this region meeting.

And ⁓ he told me he got to the airport or whatever and I was like, okay, well I have a surprise for you. He said what? And I said, well, when you land, I have a limo picking you up and bringing you to the hotel.

That man, I promise you, will work for me forever. He, I met him for lunch a couple of weeks ago, we haven't worked together in...

Jason E. Brooks (13:18)

Mm-hmm.

Sunny Ashman (13:23)

five years and he was like, I'll never forget that. I will never forget that. And so it's creating like the belonging and the recognition. I'm also on, you mentioned NextUp, know, we have this, it's a volunteer organization. We have a board meeting tomorrow and this is National Volunteer Month. And so just something as simple as I got these little ⁓ cosmetic bags.

And it says, may you be proud of the work you do, the person you are and the difference you make. And so it's just a little gift. It was, you know, under $10. But just to let people remind people that you care about them and not just about the work they do, but the person they are. Right. And allowing them to have that authenticity within the team. Right. Obviously, you're always not always, but sometimes you're going to have.

Jason E. Brooks (13:56)

Mmm.

Sunny Ashman (14:19)

people that maybe don't mesh well with the team and as a leader you have to make that hard decision, right? But I really think building strong and resilient teams is setting the expectations, creating a culture of belonging, making people feel like they're something bigger and especially in this space because in hospitality like people leave for 25 cents.

Jason E. Brooks (14:46)

Yeah.

Sunny Ashman (14:46)

Right?

Like they leave to go down the street because they're gonna pay him 25 more cents, but if they have this sense of like, you know...

I like it here. The people I like are here. I feel like there's an opportunity. You know, I'm going to shadow. I'm going to learn. You know, I'm getting more out of it than just the $8 or $10 an hour, $12 an hour, whatever it is now that I'm making, right? I feel part of something bigger. And I think that's so important when you're building a high performing team, because then everybody's all in.

Jason E. Brooks (15:02)

Mm-hmm.

just so everyone knows. Sunny is, Sunny has actually.

Jason E. Brooks (15:31)

later on this afternoon, because I'm putting some burgers, hot dogs, and some street corn on the grill. But Sunny has ⁓ got a limo for me that's gonna pick me up from my house and it's gonna take me to the grocery store so I can get my groceries. She is no, but I know not everyone can do a limo for everyone's first date, but the peace and the understanding of

Sunny Ashman (15:51)

You

Jason E. Brooks (16:00)

getting people to understand the culture on day zero, on day one. That is the absolute truth and that is the takeaway is getting them not waiting till the day they actually start training or waiting until they are in position or waiting until their very first one-on-one or their review.

That needs to be embedded and they need to see it before you even say it. That is truly helping to build that strong teams that are engaged, especially in our industry like hospitality. Sunny, I thank you so much for bringing up that story. I've never heard that and that is amazing. Now, in recent years though,

We've seen the shift in how companies approach workplace culture, leadership development, and talent retention. What changes do you think have been the most impactful? What changes within those three things? Workplace culture, leadership, and how we retain our teams. Which ones do you think within our industry have been the most impactful?

Sunny Ashman (17:23)

You know, it's so interesting because so much has changed from a technology perspective. Like I tell people all the time, being a GM now is so different than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. And it is so interesting because

We have all this technology, so there's literally an app for everything, right? And it's like, ⁓ the integration and this and this. If it's integrated, if it's working, right? There's processes like learning management systems, but I don't know if it's truly been the biggest positive impact.

on the manager and the team members, right? I think the biggest impact has been when we have seen the shift and not every company has done this. And just because if you have a franchisor that hasn't done it doesn't mean you can't as a franchisee or a leader or district manager, whatever.

But I think the biggest impact is having that mindset shift from retention from compensation, right? I just have, I can keep them because I'm giving them 25 more cents or 50 more cents or another dollar, right? To the mentality of retention through culture.

Jason E. Brooks (18:54)

Hmm.

Sunny Ashman (18:54)

Right?

So investing in the people, especially their managers. When I was at Popeyes, Cheryl Bauschelder and our leadership team felt very strongly. Have you heard of the chain of influence?

Jason E. Brooks (19:08)

I have not.

Sunny Ashman (19:09)

So it is from like the 1980 something and I can't remember the guy who came up with it, but it's basically the chain of influences. Hey, there's all these knots on the chain, right? And so if you focus your attention on that group in the chain right below you.

and you do everything in your power to focus on that chain, and you say that their customer is the person on the chain next to them, then you'll see success. And so what we actually did is we had the branded employee and guest experience. And so at Popeyes, we said, our franchisee, because we can move the needle here, our franchisee is our customer.

Right. The customer is not as the franchise or our customer. We are going to do things so that our franchisees can gain customers. But I want to focus on making sure that the satisfaction of our franchisees that they have with our brand is number one. Right. And we're going to give them the tools that they need to be good leaders so they can focus on their district managers or their general general managers. Right. And so we

Jason E. Brooks (20:02)

Mm-hmm.

Sunny Ashman (20:23)

kind of went through the chain and said, okay, as a general manager, you're number one focus.

should be your team members. And if you focus on your team members, you let the team members know that their number one focus is the customer. And we absolutely measured this through a baseline survey and a post survey from employee engagement. We did employee engagement, we did sales, we did ⁓ guest experience numbers, we did speed of service, everything.

Jason E. Brooks (20:33)

⁓

huh.

Sunny Ashman (20:55)

was greatly impacted was so much higher than our system average when we said here's our focus and we're going to give them the tools that they need and we're going to give the managers the tools that they need to put their people first. ⁓ Because you know it's so hard it's so hard being a manager somebody calls out now I'm on the drive-through I'm supposed to be leading the team and now I'm leading the drive-through or I'm expediting and lord knows those tables haven't been cleaned in four hours and you know all of

the things and so as leaders as business owners as franchisors as managers you got to focus on the team right and let them learn and let them grow and people will they're gonna stay like they're going to stay if they know again I hate to say like part of something bigger

but they will. And at Popeyes, we had, I mean, I love hearing these stories of like, one of our franchisees walked his general manager who'd worked for him for 15 years down the aisle because her father had passed away. these are amazing stories that you hear over and over again in this industry. That's why it's such a special industry for us to work in.

Jason E. Brooks (22:04)

Wow.

You know, using that example of the chain culture, I think that where the chain is broken within other industries that don't complete it at the level in which you experienced it at Popeyes is that...

They focus on treating the people within their circle well and doing everything for them, but they didn't do the Simon Sinek aspect and say the why and what the expectation is for them and their chain and then what their chain's chain is to do. So.

Sunny Ashman (22:39)

Okay.

Jason E. Brooks (23:03)

people will hear this thinking, well, I do that, but did you explain the why of what they must now do after that? And then what their team's team has to that. So that right there, that is absolutely excellent. I mean, that's beautiful. And if more people chose that takeaway, any viewer or listener right now, ⁓

Sunny Ashman (23:12)

Right. Feedback is key.

Jason E. Brooks (23:29)

You take that takeaway and layer that onto what you're doing and make sure it's very clear of what your next change chain should be doing. And then repeat that and be clear with that communication and be consistent. Because even with a school teacher, the very first day they tell all the students what to do and what not to do. What do they do on the second day and then on the third day and then on the fourth week and then on on the fifth month.

Sunny Ashman (23:43)

Thank

you

Jason E. Brooks (23:59)

still repeat every single thing that is important of what they should be focused on, although they said it on day one. So clear communication isn't just saying it once of what that next change focus is. It's every time that you communicate that reset, that reorientation.

Then they can truly begin to make that happen in the field. Sunny, thank you so much. We are going to switch gears just a little bit because I want to start talking a bit more in depth about NextUp Atlanta, about GLEAM and about WiRL. You have been working with these organizations for quite some time. Most listeners may not know what that is. So any of the three, two of the

Sunny Ashman (24:21)

Thank

Jason E. Brooks (24:50)

three your choice. What are those three things and and ⁓ how do they help leaders in this space?

Sunny Ashman (24:58)

Yeah, so I think I'll focus on GLEAM and WiRL because they are focused on the restaurant space, but GLEAM is a...

Leadership Development Organization, we have three different levels. we have frontline team member development. It's called a CAP program. I want to say it's six or eight weeks and it's for it's just development. It's all virtual for frontline team hourly workers. We have the lead program, which is really for GMs and district managers where we have leaders from large restaurant organizations, small restaurants,

organizations come in, do panels, do workshops, they get to network and ask questions and really kind of get some exposure in the industry. ⁓ They're very inexpensive like $40, $50 to go to so super beneficial if you know we don't have them everywhere so you have to find them in your your town. ⁓

WiRL, it has been amazing. WiRL is women in restaurant leadership. ⁓ Women's leadership development is very important to me. I actually led the Women's Popeyes, the Popeyes Women's Leadership Forum when I was there. And so it's near and dear to my heart. I will tell you that one of the amazing things that I have gained from working with these organizations,

is the power of diverse perspectives. So working alongside brilliant women from different industries, including hospitality, it's just...

It has helped me be a more inclusive leader. But what I also love is the collaboration over competition. I cannot tell you how many people, especially the World Conference. I was just telling somebody earlier today, the World Conference was amazing because I'm sitting here and I'm watching a panel of CEOs talking about their experience and all of this stuff.

And then in the next breakout session, one of them is sitting next to me at the table. And I'm like, wow, or another one that was speaking, a COO, you know.

That's kind of like a goal for me and I'm like picking her brain at cocktail hour and she's like well Yeah, let's look at your resume like let's schedule a meeting in two weeks and let's just go through it She doesn't owe me anything. I don't know her from Adam and just having that collaboration over competition and Just we're so open in this industry about You know, what do we do? all the best practices and it's not competition because

Jason E. Brooks (27:30)

Wow.

Sunny Ashman (27:50)

just because it works for me doesn't mean it's going to work for you.

Jason E. Brooks (27:54)

Yep.

Sunny Ashman (27:55)

Yeah, but I would highly encourage getting involved in any of those organizations. And then, also GLEAM, I totally missed our mentorship program. That is for people at all levels. It is dedicated to the restaurant space. So if you have one thing in particular, we call it your one big thing that you're working on, they will pair you up with a mentor that is proficient in that thing. So it's kind of like a six to eight week or six month coaching program. It's amazing. Highly, highly recommend.

Jason E. Brooks (28:04)

Mmm.

Well, Sunny, you are speaking my language. If there's ever anything I can do with either one of those networks, you let me know. I will. I will do my best. Excellent. Let's go ahead and lead into the questions that every guest at The Leadership Table gets. OK, so you are are are you ready? Yes.

Sunny Ashman (28:36)

⁓ I'm pegging you for a mentor, buddy.

I'm ready.

Jason E. Brooks (28:55)

Excellent. So if you could sit at a roundtable with three other leaders, alive or from history, who would you choose and why?

Sunny Ashman (29:09)

Okay, this was a tough one. I really had to put a lot of thought in that. Well, not this one. This one was easy. The first one would be my mother. I don't know, although we've known each other for a long time, I don't know if you're aware, but my mother passed away three hours after I was born in the hospital. So I have never had a conversation with my mother. Luckily, I have lots of family. I have lots of older sisters. I've had lots of female influence in my life, but I've never spoken to my mom. So...

just to hear funny stories and be able to give her a hug just would make me so happy. So that would be my number one. ⁓ My number two would be Brene Brown. Do you know who that is?

Jason E. Brooks (29:52)

yes I do.

Sunny Ashman (29:54)

So I feel like grabbing a cup of coffee and talking with her would be like meeting with your toughest coach but also your biggest cheerleader. I think she would be absolutely amazing. I love all of her books. I love her research. I just love her realness. So that would just be a delight for me. And then this one was really, I was like, oh, because I had so many on the list and just to narrow it down.

But it came to true at Kathy. To me, he has built a brand on principles, not just profit, very rooted in values, and was kind of my first introduction to servant leadership.

⁓ you know, I loved it when he said we are not just in the chicken business. We're in the people business and I think kind of having that as their philosophy and it just Your actions speak ⁓

⁓ louder than words and I think he's ingrained that in the business and so just to pick his brain and sit and talk to him for 30 minutes would just it would just be amazing. So those are my those are my three after Jason Brooks, of course, of course.

Jason E. Brooks (31:16)

⁓

If now if I ever made Sunny's topless like that, I would just drop a tear ⁓ now if anyone from Brene's Brown team is listening cuz I know that Brene Brown is very busy But if anyone from her team is listening to this episode, please Find a way reach out to Sunny. I would love to see that happen. Okay second question

Sunny Ashman (31:39)

Please call me.

I will be on a flight to Texas tomorrow.

Jason E. Brooks (31:47)

I know you would

and pick her up in a limo. All right, so our second question. At The Leadership Table, we believe in conversations that inspire, lead and elevate. What's one conversation in your career?

that profoundly shaped you as a leader. Now, first, I know that there are several people that you worked with that helped to shape how you do what you do now. But what's one of those conversations in your career that helped profoundly shape you as a leader?

Sunny Ashman (32:10)

Ahem. ⁓

So I've had lots of conversations. Some coaching conversations I've liked and others I've liked less. ⁓ But all feedback is a gift, right? And so it's how you handle it. I would say earlier on when I became a leader, kind of first time leader.

One of my managers said in our one-on-one, you don't have to know all the details to be able to lead. You just have to ask the right questions. You just have to know enough to ask the right questions and put the right resources in place and call BS when you need to. And for me,

And I've said that statement probably a hundred times over the last, I don't know, five years. ⁓ I'm so used to like digging up my, like pulling up my sleeves and getting into the weeds and like, have to know, if I'm gonna be a good leader, I'm gonna have to know everything it is about what it is I'm asking them to do.

Jason E. Brooks (33:35)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sunny Ashman (33:38)

And that's not the case. You have to lean on your team, empower your team to be those subject matter experts. It allowed me the opportunity to get out of the tactical and get into the more strategic thinking, right? And saying, okay, the team has it. Because I was always like servant leader. have to like, if they can't do it, I need to jump in and do it. And it's like, no, you need to let your team fail.

Like you have to empower them and then let them fail. Now you also have to trust but verify. Trust but verify. ⁓ But it allows you to kind of lead with integrity, right? And say, okay, you're the subject matter expert. I trust you. You're gonna do a good job. And it's hard.

because you have to be very vulnerable to be able to do that and trust that every person you work with or works for you or works with you is going to have your best interest and it's just not always going to be the case. ⁓ So it's like you have to know enough. You can't go in blind and not know anything, right? You can't go in and be like, ⁓ I know how to do inventory and then you're it.

Jason E. Brooks (34:52)

But you have to know enough to be

dangerous. ⁓

Sunny Ashman (34:55)

Yes, yes,

you have to know enough to be dangerous, but you have to also know enough to say like, okay, this isn't working. We have to make a solution here. And so to me, it's a struggle. I still struggle with it sometimes. Like I still struggle with getting into the tactics because I'm like, yes, I'm a team player and I know you're busy. So I'm going to do it.

and you just have to you just have to pull out and you have to let people fail and I would say that actually after having kids and now teenagers I'm probably a better leader in work than than I was 15 years ago.

Jason E. Brooks (35:36)

It is, is, ⁓ so I wouldn't say easy. It's so much easier to have that work cutoff point to where when we get home and finally unwind mentally, can focus on something else. But it's kind of hard to. ⁓

do that vice versa with kids and family. You think, well, ⁓ I'm great at with my kids. No, it's a ongoing thing that it just takes so much time for us to even things we teach.

to bring it back home, you know, because we kind of want to take that work hat off at work and come home and just be a mother or a husband or a wife. But then we realize there's a whole other set of things that we have to do.

with our own family that's hard to like turn off. It's just not natural. It's something that you do still have to work hard at. So you are absolutely right. But no, those wise words given to you and I'm glad that you are still repeating them to this day. Now, now Sunny, before we wrap up, where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about your work?

Sunny Ashman (36:43)

Thank you. ⁓

Yeah,

so ⁓ LinkedIn is where I live. basically live on LinkedIn, ⁓ networking constantly, meeting people constantly. ⁓

I love working on brands. So I work primarily with restaurants and how to smaller restaurant chains on how to scale their business so that they can franchise and grow. ⁓ And so would love to have a virtual coffee with you, pick you up in a limo. I don't know, but reach out, message me on LinkedIn. I would love, absolutely love to connect. And Jason, I'm so, so thrilled to, to be able to chat with you and thank you for having me.

Jason E. Brooks (37:33)

Excellent. My pleasure. All my pleasure. All these years of knowing you, Sunny. This has been just phenomenal on truly building on real relationships. So I thank you for answering the call when I reached out to join The Leadership Table. Now for our listeners today, we explore leadership, culture and the future of hospitality with insights from Sunny Ashman.

Sunny, thank you for sharing your expertise with us at The Leadership Table. If you found value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with a fellow leader. You can also visit jasonebrooks.com for more leadership insights and resources. Until next time, keep leading with impact and remember Manage, Lead,

Coach, Repeat. Thank you. Thank you, Sunny.

Sunny Ashman (38:39)

Thank you.