Why Today's Body Standards Are More Dangerous Than Ever

In this eye-opening episode of What They Didn't Tell You: From Core to Floor, Dr. Millie sits down with licensed mental health counselor Rachel Tuckman to discuss one of today's most important conversations surrounding body image, diet culture, and the growing influence of GLP-1 medications like Ozempic.

Together, they explore how society's definition of "healthy" has shifted, why extreme thinness is becoming the new beauty standard, and the emotional impact this has on women, men, teenagers, and families.

Rachel shares her expertise on eating disorders, body image, Health at Every Size (HAES), and the psychological factors that often drive our relationship with food and our bodies. Rather than focusing on weight, this conversation challenges listeners to redefine health through nourishment, emotional well-being, meaningful relationships, and self-compassion.

Whether you're navigating your own body image journey, raising children in today's social media culture, or simply trying to build a healthier relationship with food, this episode offers compassionate insight and practical perspective.

In this episode:

• The rise of GLP-1 medications and today's changing body standards
• What "food noise" really means
• Why hunger is a healthy biological signal
• The psychology behind eating disorders
• How social media shapes body image
• Why commenting on weight can be harmful
• The difference between thinness and true health
• Helping children develop a healthy body image
• Redefining wellness beyond appearance

Connect with Rachel Tuckman
Instagram: @racheltuckmanlmhc
Website: racheltuckman.com

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who could benefit from this conversation.

Transcript

Dr. Millie Schweky: [00:00:00] Hey, Rachel. So excited to have you.

Rachel Tuckman: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Millie Schweky: I'm a longtime follower, and I was so excited when you just, like, said yes to coming on the podcast. So before we jump into a very juicy topic, can you please tell everybody who you are and what you do?

Rachel Tuckman: Okay. My name is Rachel Tuckman. I am a licensed mental health counselor, and I am living and working in the Five Towns.

Some of you may have heard of it, the Five Towns. Um, I work with... I mean, I used to work a lot with kids, but post-COVID it actually shifted a lot. During COVID it shifted, that now I work more with adults because kids didn't wanna be on Zoom with school and their therapist. So it ended up shifting. I ended up just working with adults, and now I primarily do that, which I actually love.

I work a lot with disordered eating and eating disorders. I describe myself as someone who's HAES-aligned, which is Health At Every Size aligned, which does not mean you are healthy at every size. It just means that health is attainable for everyone at any size, which means that I don't judge people based on their bodies or believe [00:01:00] that, you know, just because someone looks a certain way, that they deserve certain treatment.

And I am very passionate about what I do. I have an online presence, meaning I have an Instagram where I really just focus on education and, you know, bringing up tough topics in the Jewish community specifically. I really focus my work there, so whenever I'm speaking, I'm thinking about the Jewish comm- because that's where I'm passionate and that's where I wanna see change.

Dr. Millie Schweky: And you're doing such important work and really, really impactful. And I re- you know, I've been reading your blog lately, especially 'cause I knew this was coming up, and I saw an article that I was like, "Okay, we're, we're going to go in this direction and we're going to discuss." We've had a few talks on the show about body image, but there's a cultural shift happening in terms of body image that you wrote about, and I wanted to dive in about that.

Do you mind sharing a bit about the sentiment? I've been reading your blog lately, and I came across an article about the new body standard that we're noticing but not talking about, and I knew this was an amazing topic [00:02:00] to speak about because it is super relevant and super prevalent. I myself find that I live under a rock when it comes to certain body image issues just because of the space I'm in and the echo chamber I'm in.

I guess I'm just hearing what it is that I wanna hear. But there is, like, subliminal messaging I'm sure seeping in. We'll talk about it. But your article was basically about thinness and how it is more prevalent now due to GLP-1 use as things such as... Oh my God, I really live under a rock. What is it called?

Authentic. Aut- Yeah, like all of these GLP-1 and GLP-1 type of medications, and now that it's more accessible, people are changing. You wrote an amazing article. Do you mind sharing the overall sentiment before, like as in dive in place?

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah, sure. And I'm so curious to hear when you say you live under a rock what that means, but you'll tell me.

But basically, before I start, I just wanna say this is not an anti-medication rant, and I always have to preface with that. [00:03:00] I am not anti-GLP, and I do think it's important that I say that because I know that in a lot of the anti-diet work that I've done, sometimes people feel like I'm saying that I'm anti anyone who diets or I'm anti the person who does it, or there's a judgment in there.

So I'm not talking about that. I'm not saying that if you're on a GLP, I'm judging you, you're bad. I am not anti GLPs. If you want to use one, you have body autonomy. You can do what you want. So that's not what I'm talking about, and I know people get very defensive when I bring up this topic that they, "Well, it changes lives and it's good for your health."

Yes. Yes, and I 100%. What I'm talking about is a lot more nuanced. Medications can be appropriate and life-changing. We are not denying that for the people who want them, need them. But then there is this unhealthy extreme, and that's what I'm talking about, that what we're seeing now is not just thinness, this extreme thinness that is becoming the norm, that there are people...

And I'm sure when I say this, people are nodding their heads, that there are people that are walking around that you're like, "Wait, what? Are you okay?" It's not [00:04:00] just that they just lost some weight. It's that people are looking unwell, that people are looking a version of thin that we've never seen before, and that's becoming normal, and that's very scary to me because we have kids who are growing up that are seeing that as that's the standard of what thin is.

Meaning we grew up with a standard of thin and then, you know, whatever, and we grew up with a standard of what's considered, you know, a, a bigger body. And those things have shifted throughout time. So now the standard of thin is something that is so completely unattainable. It's not normal. It used to be like, yeah, you could be thin if you just like ate twice a day or whatever.

That was your thin. Now it's like we just like use this medication that makes us eat nothing, and that's the way that you look that you do, and that's scary. I just think that that's a conversation that we need to have. Um, and people are talking about, "Yeah, but it's about health," and I'm saying please just separate them.

There's health and then there's being thin, and those are not the same thing. And when you conflate the two, we're not being genuine and we're not having the same conversation, you know? So yeah, that's where I'm at with that.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Amazing. And you [00:05:00] know, I know so many people who GLP-1, you know, is really good for them in terms of health.

And just to iterate, yeah, we're talking about something else. Like I know I grew up, you know, around very thin people and there was no such thing as these medications yet, and a lot of it was Okay, you restrict and then you're, you're more thin. And then, like, you don't know that the person's restricting like that, and then you were like, "I'm so healthy.

Like, I eat so healthy. I exercise, I meditate, like, I do things. Like, why don't I look like that?" And then, like, because you're surrounded by this look-

Rachel Tuckman: Yes ...

Dr. Millie Schweky: it's like you, you're just natural to compare yourself and, you know, you kind of start to feel like maybe you're doing something wrong. And, like, you might not even necessarily be in a bigger body, just, you know, relatively speaking, it seems like that.

So now it seems like we're setting the standard even, I don't know if we wanna say higher or lower, but we're setting the standard even thinner. Someone, someone really naive like me, like, I live in Israel, I don't believe, I mean, I could also be naive, but I don't [00:06:00] believe I live in a community where people are taking these kinds of things Um, just to be more thin, not because they have, like, a blood sugar issue to deal with.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I don't, I don't feel it, but when I go to America for the summer, and I see people, and I don't say hi to them 'cause I didn't know it was them- Yeah ... you, you're like, "Whoa," you know? Like, it bec- becomes a bit crazy. And granted, some of them maybe had, like, pre-diabetes or diabet- like, something going on, but some of them, I honestly doubt it.

And, uh, what... Like, what's going on? Can you just tell us? Like, do you know, like, what's going on?

Rachel Tuckman: So I, I don't know that, by the way, that it... that you're under a rock or in denial if you don't see it in Israel. I do think that just in general from speaking to people that live in Israel, and again, this is not scientific data, this is just from people that I know and followers, this seems to be less of a problem in Israel, meaning not that many people are on it, or if they are, like, again, it's not to the extreme here where it, it's very extreme in the US in general.

You know, in Hollywood. It's not [00:07:00] just the Five Towns. Like, guys, don't get attacking the Five Towns. It's everywhere in the US, Jewish, non-Jewish community. So I don't think that you're naive in thinking, like, I don't really see that where I'm at 'cause I don't know that it's such a problem there. Not to say it doesn't exist at all, but I don't think it's as rampant.

Meaning, yes, when you come here, and you're like, "Wait, who is that?" I do think even, like, the people that are using it for, let's say, medical issues, even they can take it too far, meaning I think that there has to come a point where someone says, "Okay, maybe I'm taking it for my diabetes or whatever, but maybe my dosage is creating, like, this basically physical makeup where I look like skin and bones, and I don't look healthy, and my skin is hanging off my face as if I'm 70, but I'm only 35."

Like, this is where it's being taken too far. What I've seen also is that people will start taking it for health reasons and then are supposed to get off it, but it actually spirals them into an eating disorder because, and I talk about this often, people start complimenting them. "You look amazing. You look so good.

Oh my [00:08:00] God, you're so skinny. You lost half yourself." And they are terrified of gaining that back or not getting those compliments, and then it spirals them. And then also sometimes what happens is even if they've been told, "Okay, time to come off of it," or, "Let's, you know, lower your dose so that you're not as..."

and the hunger comes back, they freak out. They're scared of hunger. "I don't wanna eat because if I eat, I'm gonna gain, gain weight, and people have been telling me I look so good. I don't wanna eat." Usually, when people have issues with food, and then they have this medication that takes away those issues with food, right?

Dr. Millie Schweky: For so badly.

Rachel Tuckman: Food noise. Then they're terrified that the food's no- the food noise is back. And so then they're like, "I don't wanna, I don't wanna think about hunger at all. I don't wanna be... think about food. It's been a peace of mind. I don't think about it." And again, that's why we're starting to see these emaciated bodies.

And again, I think also, like you'll see online people that take them, again, even for health reasons if they're taking them, they're describing side effects that it drives me crazy that we think this is normal. "I'm losing my hair. I'm freezing all the time. I have no [00:09:00] energy. I'm constipated. I have-- I'm nauseous all the time.

I, I-- when I get up, I'm dizzy and I see black for three seconds." Do you know what we call that? That's starvation. When those things happen, that's because there is something wrong. You're not feeding your body. But this is like medically induced starvation, and it's fine. As long as you're fat and you're taking that medication and you're losing weight, we don't care.

If someone thin was having those symptoms, right away we would be sending them to the hospital. "Are you okay?" But here we're like, "Yay, GLP, GLP." What are we doing? Stop. And then I worry about the teenagers online that are like, "That's okay if I feel that way. I'm gonna starve myself and have those symptoms.

It is fine." Like, you know? So I just think we have to really just have a conversation. And again, it doesn't mean we're saying everybody get off GLPs, we hate them, or they're the worst. But we do have to be very honest about what's happening here, that we're seeing people that are using them in ways that are unsafe, and that it's creating a new normal for us that's like very not normal and very dangerous.

And we don't know the long-term effects yet, meaning we don't have enough years [00:10:00] of this now of what happens when a person is that thin with all those side effects for all that time. You know? We don't know what it's gonna be. But, uh, we do know just from a little bit of the basic research that we're seeing is that a lot of people are reporting that it's triggering eating disorders for them.

And then again, like I said, now we're calling just basic hunger, everything's food-

Dr. Millie Schweky: So can we define food noise? 'Cause everyone I know that's taken it and have been open about it is like, "Wow, like I rid of my food noise." I'm like, "Were you obsessing over food and now you're not obsessed over food? Or were you just regularly hungry?"

And now you're not. Like, what's food noise? And what are people saying is food noise?

Rachel Tuckman: And so that's what I think we have to differentiate. People think like when I'm hungry all the time, that means food noise. And so that's where I say, if you're hungry all the time, meaning there's always this like obsessive thought in your head about like, "I'm so hungry.

Oh my God, I need a burger, I need a bagel, I need a this." Are you eating enough? Let's just start with that baseline. Sometimes- Are

Dr. Millie Schweky: you eating the right things?

Rachel Tuckman: Right. Are you bal- is your nutrition balanced, filling? Are you... Yes, are you eating the right things? Like, are you just like downing protein shakes and like having [00:11:00] like a piece of sourdough?

Like what are you doing? Are you eating properly? If you're not, you're going to be hungry and your brain is gonna obsess about food. We know the more you restrict, the more your body is obsessing. And I always give this example of like in Dar- in, um, Victor Frankl's book about the Holocaust, in Man's Search for Meaning, he says there's one point where he says they were digging, I don't remember, something maybe for like a railway, trains or whatever, and he said all they spoke about was like recipes and cooking.

Why? 'Cause they were starving. It's all they could think about, right? We know this. The hostages from Gaza, what did they say? That's all they thought about, food, food, food, food all the time. When we're restricting, right? Not to say we're Holocaust or Gaza hostages, but think about what that means. It means when I don't have food, it's all my body wants, and so my brain is gonna put it at the forefront of my head.

"I'm hungry. Feed me. I cannot function." So I wanna know first, can you just tell me what you're eating throughout the day? Like let me just hear. So when someone says that, like please just show me what your daily food menu looks like, you know? And then if it's that you are really eating [00:12:00] enough and in a balanced way and in, in a way that makes sense, then we have to talk about it.

Okay, what is that food noise? Is it obsessive? Is it constant? Also, what happens when you're eating, right? What's the noise while you're eating? "This is bad. This is shameful. This is terrible. Throw it up. Don't keep it down." Right? We wanna talk about that. It's a lot more than just, "I'm so hungry. I could really use like a cinnamon bun right now."

We all have that food noise. That's normal, you know? But I think now we've turned hunger into food noise. That's what it's called all the time. And I think we're really doing something, again, very dangerous when we have those conversations. 'Cause again, a lot of those are happening in front of growing teenagers or young people, not even teenagers, young adults, and if we're labeling something that's a healthy biological function of our brains, we want that.

When, by the way, when there's no food noise, also that sometimes is an indicator of an eating disorder. That part of your brain has turned off, that signaling hunger. That's not a good thing, you know? So I think we're like we're celebrating things that are so [00:13:00] dangerous and not healthy, and this is really something that like gets me riled up, in case you can't tell.

Dr. Millie Schweky: There's something so lovely, I can't think of a g- better word, about being hungry, feeling hunger. I'm like, ugh, I'm honoring my cues. It's like, it's like having to

go to the bathroom and then you go to the bathroom. I'm honoring my cues and now I'm gonna, and now I'm gonna do it. Like, what do I want, right? And then you just like go make the meal, and then you just go make the meal. And something that I work on with my patients in general is embodiment. Yeah. Like feeling like you're in your body, you're present, you know what's going on.

You, you know what it's telling you. Like, it sounds woo-woo to people when I say, "What is your body telling you?" Right? 'Cause sometimes I'm like, "What is your uterus telling you?" And I'm like, "I don't know," right? But like, when... It's the same thing as like, what is your bladder telling you when it's full, right?

It's telling you, "Go to the bathroom." What is your stomach telling you when it's hungry, when it's full? Like,

Rachel Tuckman: am I tired? Am I energetic? Am I... Right? Like, yes. What's my [00:14:00] mood?

Dr. Millie Schweky: And it's just so important to be in touch with these senses that go like way far beyond the five senses. It's like your, your inner senses, and in my opinion it's like one of the most feminine traits we can have is like being in, in touch and embodied with our body.

And it just strips you away from being in touch with yourself. I just had a patient, shout out if he's listening, um, she had her lap bands removed. Remember that trend? The lap band trend? Mm. Ugh. Yeah. Like, not gonna go into it, but she was like, "I f-," she, when she had it removed, she was like, "I could feel hunger.

I could feel my stomach." Like, it's just so nice to feel. Like, why are we shutting this down? It's almost like if you're not taking it for a med- I mean, I won't go into the whole medical, if you're taking it for a medical reason, but if you're not taking it for a medical reason There's a reason why perhaps you feel a certain way around food.

Now you're putting a Band-Aid on it

Rachel Tuckman: Right. Right. And usually what [00:15:00] happens is like there's like a slingshot effect even that people get off, and I- we've seen these stories a lot. We hear them. That hunger comes back with a vengeance. And so some people say, "Well, I'm gonna stay on it forever." And I say, "Okay, we don't know the long term effects of regular person, not person with diabetes or a medical condition that calls for this.

We don't know the long term effects of that." And like, are you okay with that? Are you okay with being on this medication and not knowing what it'll do for you? Like in terms of what it could do for your health in a negative way? You know, a- again, like I don't know what's gonna happen with these medications.

I just think it's better to maybe think about healing your relationship with food and your body versus like, "Well, I'm just gonna turn off that part of my brain that makes me ever want food ever again," you know? Because again, let's say you have to get off it for whatever reason. Let's say there's a shortage or they decide not to-- that it's not okay for, you know, non-diabetic use again.

Then what are you going to do? You know? Like you said, it's just a Band-Aid. So I feel like this is created and, and there's a lot of excitement about it. Yeah. Oh, look, you know, [00:16:00] I'm-- I can use it now, and like I got my weight under control and, and I hear this a lot. "I've never felt more energized, and I'm finally working out," and great.

Those are healthy behaviors. And if, if losing some weight made you feel like you wanna do this now, like that's amazing, and I, I don't wanna take that away. But I do think it's important to then continue with those behaviors and then to think about like what would I do if I-- so now this medication gave me like a, you know, a head start and it like kicked everything off.

Like now what am I gonna do to make sure that I maintain these behaviors? Instead of just thinking about the weight loss, you know? And again, I think we focus so much on weight loss as, as like the indicator of health, but that's not. You know? Weight loss sometimes is a byproduct of healthy behaviors.

Sometimes weight gain is a byproduct of healthy behaviors. And I see it a lot in the work that I do. We look for people to gain weight in eating disorders sometimes, you know? But I think that there's so much of a focus on bodies and like what those tell us that people are really getting lost. And, and again, my worry is more that we're just like [00:17:00] celebrating things that don't look normal.

I just saw the other day there was a picture of an actress at some festival and she was, like, with her arms out and they were like, "Look at whoever's toned arms." These are not toned arms. This is not normal. Like, this is not okay. And I, and I'm looking at it and thinking, like, "We have lost the plot." Like, I hope to God my daughter doesn't see this picture and think this is toned arms.

I think she would know 'cause we talk about it. She would know, like, that's messed up. That's not normal. But not every kid knows that. And again, we're still affected by the standard even if we know. Even Rachel Zuckerman can look at pictures and then start feeling bad about her body. Like, we're all victims of this culture that we're in, and I've noticed that even, by the way, women who have, like, not really struggled so much, that they're like, "Yeah, I'm like everyone else.

I hate my body sometimes, but overall I'm good." Even now they're like, "Wait a minute, like, I'm actually starting to feel really bad about myself." Because again, what we're seeing is so dramatically different than, like, what we were seeing before that even people that are in just, like, typically accepted bodies are now like, "Wait, like, now I'm not good enough."

[00:18:00] And I just think that's, like, a conversation we need to have. Like, we're celebrating this, like, new shift into this, like, extreme that's really not normal, you know? And I think we just need to keep talking about it when we see it. Like, nope, absolutely not. The, the toned arms, that's not toned arms. Not okay.

No. Not cool. You know?

Dr. Millie Schweky: As a therapist who's working with this population, like eating disorders or perhaps someone with body image issues to the point where they're taking extreme measures, what's typically the underlying emotional pattern that you're seeing? Is it, like, self-confidence? Like, what, like, what is it?

Like, where is this coming from? 'Cause that's really... When you work on that, like, that's the cure to the quote-unquote food noise. You know what I mean?

Rachel Tuckman: I mean, in general, eating disorders are usually about-- They're a coping mechanism, just like anything else, right? So it's if, like, I'm feeling, let's say, with an eating disorder, let's say that's like a, a purging type, meaning so I throw up my food, let's say.

[00:19:00] Sometimes when people feel very bad about something that's happening in their life, they literally have to, like, eliminate it from themselves. So if they ate something, they'll throw it up, or they'll eat and then throw up, right? Meaning like, "I hate all this bad feeling in my body, and I'm actually using this physical coping mechanism," not a coping mechanism, but it's their co-- or, you know, not a good coping mechanism, "to remove this feeling from my body.

Like, I feel so gross and toxic and terrible, I'm gonna throw it up, and I'm gonna feel better, and I'm also gonna feel like I have control over my body," right? So it's like a version of self-harm that feels better. Sometimes also it's like, "You know, everything sucks in my life, and I'm so bad at everything, but I'm actually really good at starving myself," you know?

Or I have, "Nobody likes me, and everybody hates me, and no one pays attention to me, but when I'm thin, they do pay attention to me, and they say, 'Oh my God, you look so good. What have you been doing?'" And I'm like, "Okay, thank you. Okay, now I get my attention." Or yes, when I feel out of control with things, then, like, that's what I focus on.

I focus on my [00:20:00] food because that's all I have control over, you know? And that's why I say, like, compliments on weight loss, I get it. Everyone's like, "Oh, they're working so hard. They worked so hard. I saw them in the gym. I saw them in the gym." That's fine you saw them in the gym. I understand that you think it's, like, a wonderful thing to acknowledge all their progress, but you don't know what you're complimenting.

You don't know. I don't care that they told you about the dietician and they showed you the menu and they-- you saw-- I don't care. Don't compliment it. Just say How are you feeling? It's so good to see you. Your hair looks amazing. Don't talk about their body because you don't know what you're complimenting.

You know, and I've seen, like, TikToks even where people, I guess they, like, you know, they're open about it. They're like, "Just so you know, like, I keep getting compliments and it just makes me wanna starve myself more, so thank you." Yes, I, I could send it to you. Like, not okay, guys. You know? Like, what... I mean, I gl- I'm glad they're saying it in the open, you know, but it's really...

A- and it's not like, oh, but that person, I know for sure that they're not doing anything disordered. It doesn't matter whether you know. Just [00:21:00] assume that it's probably not healthy. And again, there are so many other ways to compliment someone who you feel like maybe they're doing great in life, 'cause you know they're working out.

Just be like, "Wow, like, amazing. You must feel so strong, and, like, so much more energized. I'm so happy for you. I love working out. Like, amazing." Think about other things to say, you know? Or just say, "I miss you. I love seeing you." Why do we have to talk about a person's body, you know? But I feel like that, for women certainly, that's what we default to, like, just talking about our bodies all the time.

Like, and how we look, and like, "Oh, my God, I need Botox," like, my wrinkles. We could talk about so much more. We're smart. We are very, like, well-developed, lovely, incredible women, strong. You know, so many of us are, like, you know, building businesses and doing amazing things. We have so much more to talk about than, you know, our wrinkles or our bodies or whatever it is, and I wish we would just talk more about those things, you know?

Dr. Millie Schweky: Wouldn't you hope that the physical appearance of your body was the least interesting thing about you?

Rachel Tuckman: Right.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Uh, Dani, I'm also wondering why, like, why are people comfortable expressing concern [00:22:00] about a larger body More than one that's visibly becoming depleted. And then part two of my question is also something that just keeps replaying in my head as we're having this conversation is, like, women can take up space in this world, and physically we're taking up- we wanna take up less space, and I think that's a physical representation of something emotional, spiritual going on.

What's your take?

Rachel Tuckman: Definitely. I think for sure there's that double standard of, like, that we, that we are. When we see someone is, like, in a bigger body, like, we're allowed to say something to them. "They have to know they're fat." Like, "What do you mean? That's not good for their health." But when someone is thin, we're like, "Mm, don't, don't say anything.

It's not..." You know, we don't comment on people's bodies. And, like, the fact that you're drawing attention to it, you're just jealous. I hear this a lot. "You're a hater." I don't hear that I'm jealous. I guess if I was fat I would hear that. But I hear a lot, "You're just being a hater." And I'm like, first of all, like, literally my job is mental health and, [00:23:00] like, body image.

I wanna-- I'm not a hater. Like, I- maybe I'm hating about other things. I'm not hating about this, that's for sure. I have a genuine concern here, so that's it. But I do think that, like, we-- a lot of the behaviors that we, that are associated with thinness, we praise them, right? Instead of questioning them, and I think that contradiction is something that we need to look at.

Like I said, like, in a thin body if someone is, like, starving themselves we're so concerned, but a fat body we're like, "Good. Thank God, yeah." Over-exercising, working out three times a day? Amazing, yeah. Finally, good. It's about time you're moving your body. A thin person, we're like, "Shoot, I don't know if that's so normal."

Like, "Are you okay?" You know? So again, I think that double standard we need to pay attention to. I think we need to-- Part of that comes from a weight stigma, right? Meaning that we look at someone in a bigger body and we assume a lot of things about them. You must not exercise. You must hate yourself. You must eat a lot, and you probably don't care about your health.

And someone who's thin we say, "You're so healthy." Even I had an experience with this pretty recently. I was at the doctor, and we-- it was, like, an annual checkup, and she said straight out, like, "Oh, you're [00:24:00] healthy, so anyway," blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, first of all, you don't know who you're talking to, 'cause you're about to get a lecture.

I'm so annoying. I'm that person, you know? But I was like, "How do you know I'm healthy?" Like, we hadn't even-- we didn't even do any labs or anything yet, so I said, "How do you know I'm healthy?" She's like, "What do you mean?" I said, "You just said you know I'm healthy. How do you know?" She's like, "Oh, I, I don't know."

I said, "I think you just assumed it 'cause, like, I'm in, like, a regular-looking body." I said, "But you don't know what my habits are. You have no-- we didn't even talk about that." She's like, "Oh, you're right." And so then I started talking to her about what I do, and I was like, "Just, like, as an FYI, like- For all you know, I'm starving myself, I'm smoking, I'm binge drinking.

Like, I don't move my body. I down a bag of chips, and that's my meal for the day. You don't know. But because you just looked at me, you assume that my, my body is like a display of my life habits, and it's not, you know? And I know that when I was at my thinnest in my life, I was the most unhealthy, you know?

And I know a lot of people will say that, you know? So I think that we need to just pay attention to even what we believe about people in bigger bodies, you know, about how much they move and what they eat and how they [00:25:00] take care of themselves versus thin people. And I think we need to think about that when we're praising, you know, certain behaviors in bigger bodies as like, "Yay, but this is getting healthy."

Is it getting healthy? I'm all for more balanced nutrition and for, you know, thinking about what we put into our mouth and paying attention to our body. Am I hungry? Am I thirsty? Am I tired? D- did I just have a workout? Do I need to eat a little bit more? Do I need to move my body? I'm all into that But I do think that we need to be very honest about, like, our, you know, what we're complimenting, when we're complimenting it, you know?

Um, and wait, what was your second question that you had? It was-

Dr. Millie Schweky: It was just about taking up space. Like, being afraid- Oh, that's- ... to physically space. Like, it feels like a- there's a underlying correlation of how they feel emotionally. Like, it's just, like, very obvious to me.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah. I saw a quote from, forget who it is.

Ugh, what's her name? She's actually, like, an unhinged, like, I don't know, a conspiracy theorist, so I don't really love her work anyhow. But she did say, it's a quote that I, that I refer to often. She talked about how basically, like, that dieting is, like, the distractor [00:26:00] for women. Whenever we wanna, like, control women, we, like, create a new body standards for them to get obsessed with so that they don't, like, make any change in the world.

'Cause if you're so busy obsessing about your wrinkles, and your gray hair, and your body, you're not gonna protest anything that has to do with you, right?

Dr. Millie Schweky: See why that's coming from a conspiracy theorist? There's a lot of truth in that.

Rachel Tuckman: So no, this was before she turned into her conspiracy theories. But I'm saying, like, that quote is not based on her conspiracy theories.

Like, but that quote is, like, yes, we are run... We are in a world where we don't want women being la- We, you know, it, I think it came from, again, if you think about when dieting was, like, introduced, you know? It was like, we wanna keep women, like, at home in the kitchen, serving the family. We don't want her going out in the world and, like, having a podcast or running a business.

Like, this w- So we're gonna just tell her, like, "Wait, don't lo- What's that on you? Cellulite? Oh, quick, take care of that, quick. You know? Get busy with that. Oh, what's that? You have, like, gray hair? Oh, cover it up quick." And again, all the things that we let men have, men can get old and have gray hair. Men can gain weight.

Dad bod. What? We don't [00:27:00] have, mom bod is, like, the worst thing. There's mommy makeover, right? Like, dad bod is celebrated. Mommy needs a makeover once she's a mom. You know? So the standard for us is so different, and I really do think it's something for us to think about, that we're not allowed to look a certain way, be a certain way.

We're told, we're controlled by this, like, I don't know what. You know? That we can't ever just be who we are, and we have to stay busy always trying to, like, avoid, you know? Like-

Dr. Millie Schweky: Even now I'm sitting here listening to you like, I mean, I would, I would just, I use cream for my wrinkles. I'm like, when the second I see my first gray, I'm covering that up.

It's like, you can't escape it. Like, we're all brainwashed.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah. And by the way, I don't have a problem with using creams for your skin and covering your grays. I don't mind that at all. I think it's great to take care of your skin, and if you don't like your gray hair, I don't think that there's anything wrong with covering your gray hair.

Meaning, if it, like, doesn't look good with your, you know, or you feel like it makes you look older and you don't want that, that's fine. I don't think that's altering your body, meaning that's- Right ... I think we, there's certain

Dr. Millie Schweky: things that- It's not a [00:28:00] drastic measure.

Rachel Tuckman: Right, and you're not hurting yourself.

You're not starving yourself. It's not impacting your health in any, you know, I mean, someone could argue chemicals on your ha- Whatever, we're not getting into that. But-

Dr. Millie Schweky: Yeah ...

Rachel Tuckman: meaning it's not altering your body in a way that's harmful. Like, creams are, of course I can hydrate my skin and take care of it. W- Sunscreen is a wonderful thing.

Drinking water eating food that's good for my body. Like, I'm not trying to, you know... These are all good things. We're allowed to do things that might seem like vanity sometimes, but again, I don't think that that's wrong. Meaning if I'm using an anti-aging cream, it's not 'cause I'm anti-aging. It means I wanna take care of my skin, right?

Like, that's fine. So I do think that, that, I mean, even the fact that it's called anti-aging, right? Why do we have to say that? Why can't we call it something else? You know, just like nourishing cream. Like, l- let's leave it alone. But again, we're told that aging is bad and women should always look young, and like, you can get older, but you should not look older.

And, you know, you can have kids, but you cannot look like you had kids. And it's like an impossible standard that we are held to, and it's never enough. It's [00:29:00] always changing. And then we wonder why women are miserable and why we fel- fe- we, you know, feel like we're held down or we're held back or, again, even why some of us are so insecure and we're always competing and we're always, you know.

Because we're in a world that tells us you're never good enough and you're never pretty enough and you're never thin enough and you're never young enough and you're, and someone always looks better than you, and someone's always smarter than you It's like we can't win, you know? So I think we really have to like drown out that noise.

And again, that's why I think looking at this new standard that's like being introduced to us, like our bodies are supposed to be like tools for us, machines for us, vehicles for us to support our lives. They are not supposed to be full-time projects, and I feel like that's what they've become, you know?

That we're just constantly fighting them. And I mean, even something I posted about recently on my page was like, I see a lot of this now, like workout number two, right?

Dr. Millie Schweky: Really?

Rachel Tuckman: Why, why are we doing that? Why can't you just go for a walk and not call it workout number two? What are you doing? You worked out.

Workout number two, are you an athlete training for [00:30:00] something? Why are you doing more than one workout a day? Movement is movement. It can be beautiful. Not everything has to be framed as a workout.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Right, you could just call it a walk.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah, you're just walking. Like, yeah, is it good for your body? Yes, but not everything has to be a workout.

And I do think that like that's also, like we're, we're starting to say like, "This is what we have to do, work out three times a day." No, no we don't. You can have a set time in the morning that you dedicate to your workout, and then anything else on top of that is wonderful movement that's good for you.

Like, why do we have to start calling it workout number two? And again, I always go back to the young people that are watching because their brains are still developing and they don't know how to be like, "That's weird. I don't think that's healthy." Yeah. This is setting the standard for them of what's healthy and what's normal, and it's creating a lot of disordered thinking around movement and food and bodies.

I'm just, you know,

Dr. Millie Schweky: like- I'm only one, but I can tell you when I go on Instagram, my algorithm is a lot of fitness influencers, and they all look picture perfect and still at the point, who knows how much of it is [00:31:00] steroids, Photoshop. Right. All these apps that make you look amazing. Eating disorders, GLP-1s, right?

Like who knows- Yeah ... what they're doing to get these photos? Or if it's just like their full-time job is to like look like that and they get paid to look like that. Like okay, that's also a thing. And like subconsciously I held myself to like, okay, like that's baseline, you know? And coming off of s- I haven't been on social media for months

Rachel Tuckman: at all.

Yeah. Really at all. And

Dr. Millie Schweky: I look in the mirror and I see a whole different person, and I'm like, I'm power woman. Like, that's a lot of, a lot of what I do. And, like, it took that to realize how brainwashed I am, 'cause now I'm just seeing real people in real

Rachel Tuckman: life.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Yeah. And again, in a population that's not particularly, like, on weight loss drugs, to my knowledge.

So it's just, like, interesting to see even, like, in the community that I live in, the girls here love weightlifting. Um, and it's really cool because where I'm from, it's all about, like, cardio. It's all about, like, cardio because, you know, people just will assume that if you, if you lift weights, you'll get big and bulky, and God forbid, take [00:32:00] up more space on the planet.

Yeah. God forbid, have some muscle mass. Right. And, like, cardio and Pilates is, like, soft, and it makes you, like, lean long lines, like, whatever that means. And it's just, it's just, like, a different culture. And here, like, people are really focused on getting strong, and it's something so beautiful to me. Like, what do you think, like, the women that, the women that are physically hungry or maybe shutting their hunger cues because they can't hear their hunger cues, like, what are they really hungry for?

Like, I think there's something they're hungry for under all of it, and they just are blocking-

Rachel Tuckman: Say, when someone's trying to shrink themselves, I think what they think is gonna come with it is maybe more love from their husband. Maybe their husband said, "I'm not attracted to you anymore. You don't look good anymore.

You don't look... That's not who I married." You know? But I always say, like, when your husband's saying that, if a partner is saying that, meaning a, a wife can say it to her husband, there's usually something deeper going on. It's not about the body. It's really not. And I know they'll say, "Yes, it is. Yes, it is."

No, there's something deeper because when you've been married to someone long enough, the love is not about physical anymore, [00:33:00] meaning it's, you're still physically attracted, but it's not, "Oh, you were 20. Like, that's what I miss." Like, it grows, meaning you see these 90-year-old couples that still love each other and hug each other, and it's not because she looks like she's 20 and 'cause he looks like he did when he was 25.

It's because our love matures and it becomes So much more than that physical, you know. And the physical changes because of how our love develops. So, you know, sometimes if you have a partner that's telling you, "I don't like how you look," and, and I've heard this where partners say, "Well, that one's wife looks better," or, "That one's husband is, is more attractive," then yes, you're gonna feel like, "Okay, well if I'm just thinner, then I'll get the acceptance that I want," when really there's an issue there that the thinness is not gonna fix, you know?

Sometimes, like I said, it's like I don't feel good about myself, meaning I think I don't have much to offer, so maybe just looking good is gonna be what I offer. Then I'll feel like I belong in the room, you know? So 'cause if I feel like I'm the fattest in the room, then I feel like I'm gross. But if I look like everyone else, then I feel like I fit in literally and figuratively, you know?

So I think it's, so whenever we're, like, targeting, whenever we're [00:34:00] stressing about our bodies, I say that's usually just, like, where we're dumping all of our bad feelings. We're trying to use our bodies as, like, the target for, you know, how bad we feel about things, and that's why I say, like, "What's really going on?

What are you looking for?" You know, there could be so many different things. What are you looking for by, like, chasing this thinness? You know, sometimes with someone who's single, it's because they've been told, "That's why you're single 'cause you, you're fat," and guys don't wanna go out with fat girls or girls don't wanna go out with fat guys.

To which I say there are plenty of fat people who are married, very ha- and there are plenty of thin people who are not married. So it's not about that, you know? And when we send that message, we're sending something, we're sending a very dangerous message also about love and relationships, you know? So I think people are focusing on, well, if I feel...

Again, it goes back to that, like, control. If I feel like there's something in my life that, like, I don't, I can't fix, maybe fixing my body will fix it, you know? And that's kind of, again, we kind of take it out on ourselves and, and we hope that things will get better. And sometimes we're presented with the reality that, like, "Oh, I lost all this weight, but I'm still [00:35:00] single.

What happened? I lost all this weight, but my husband still cheated on me." Okay, you know? "I lost all this weight, but my wife still left me." So I think that sometimes we have to think about, like, sometimes that's like you said, it's just a Band-Aid, it's a cover, it's a distraction. It's like this false, you know, it's, it's pretending that we're actually making it better when we're really not, you know?

So I think that's something to think about, too. You know? That, that that's where we turn when r- in reality there's probably something much deeper going on and we have to really think about, like, what we're defining as, you know, health and taking back your life and improving things. Right now we're focused on one thing, how thin you are, how much weight you lost, and there's so much more there, you know?

Dr. Millie Schweky: Yeah. There's usually some self-limiting belief that we- Yes ... pretty much made up.

Rachel Tuckman: Yes.

Dr. Millie Schweky: I think that's, like, underlying this. Like, our brains are so good

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah ...

Dr. Millie Schweky: at the commentary. Like it's, it's not in, it's not based in, on fact, right? Like, I had a patient come in one time, "I had a baby, I gained weight. I'm..." I don't know what she said.

Something like, [00:36:00] "I'm lazy," right? Like, this is like very common. I'll have tons of postpartum women calling themselves lazy or a failure or-

Rachel Tuckman: Mm-hmm ...

Dr. Millie Schweky: out of control. And it's okay, you believe that about yourself, it's gonna manifest, and then you get yourself into this like cycle.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah.

Dr. Millie Schweky: And really, like you're emotionally eating at night because you feel like you are whatever you, it is that you're-

Rachel Tuckman: Right

Dr. Millie Schweky: telling yourself.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah.

Dr. Millie Schweky: When really you're like this beautiful being inside whose outside appearance is cool, you know? Like, cool. And Women trusting their bodies, feeling, living from a much deeper place are just healthy.

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, like, so important for ... Sometimes we, like, set a bar for ourselves, like, meaning, like, let's say right after we have a baby we're like, "Oh, we're supposed to just go back to, like, how we were behaving, looking, thinking, feeling before we were [00:37:00] pregnant."

And it's like your body needs time to heal, and, like, nobody's patient with that. No, the bounce back, and not even physically, the bounce back emotionally and in terms of your functioning. Like, and then we beat ourselves up because we're like, "Wait, why don't I feel, you know, what..." And, and then it's, like, so stressful.

I don't feel like myself. I feel so out of sorts. I don't... You know? I hate how I feel. Something's wrong with me that I feel this way. And I feel like if we were able to just, like, maybe observe our feelings more than, like, run with them and start berating ourselves, like, maybe just, you know, like, there's, like, a famous, like, DBT, dialectical behavior therapy, technique which says, like, just, like, let them float by, your thoughts.

Mm-hmm. You don't have to grab onto them and read them and think about them and analyze them. Let them just float. So, like, "I'm so lazy today." Okay. There you go. Keep going. I don't have to go, "Yeah, I'm so lazy because I didn't pack the kids' lunch, and I did not go to the gym, and I did not prepare myself lunch.

I just stuffed Cheerios down my throat. And then, why? Why? Why? I'm so lazy." Okay, let it go. Good, now keep going. If you [00:38:00] get stuck with that lazy feeling, then yes, you're eme- you're then emotionally bogged down, and then you feel less like you wanna do anything versus if it's just like, "I feel so lazy. Okay, like, cool.

Done. Fine. Okay, now let me keep moving. Maybe I'll sit on the couch for a little bit longer, or maybe I'll get up and go, like, take care of the laundry, or I'll, you know, go make sure I have stuff for dinner or whatever it is." But people don't realize, like, when you grab onto every single thought that, like, enters your mind, you end up burdening yourself and taking so much of your energy that you could be using to eventually get off the couch or go do something or do that workout you wanna do or make the dinner you wanted to make.

But you wasted all your energy on getting so stressed about how lazy you were, you know? And there's that mind-body connection again. Like, if I'm obsessing about how lazy I am, then I'm going to feel more lazy because I'm using all my energy obsessing about it. Just let it go. Done. I'm so lazy. Okay, goodbye.

Not a helpful thought anyway to, to, for me, you know? Totally.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Like,

Rachel Tuckman: to pay attention to. Like, how we're talking to ourselves, the grace we give ourselves, the pressure we put on ourselves, you know? Like, [00:39:00] we just need to be nicer to ourselves.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Amen. And if you had to leave one message about, you know, this whole body image cultural shift and what's going on, especially for moms raising young daughters, what would you- Want to share.

Rachel Tuckman: So I want to-- I really just want to, again, reinforce, like we are not saying Ozempic bad. We're not saying that. What we're saying is, have we lost perspective about what nourishment is, what vitality is, what health looks like? Have we lost that perspective? And I'm gonna say the answer is yes. And so then I want us to think about how do we get that back?

How do we start talking about health in a way that's actually about health, and how do we start challenging this idea of like that thin body? Meaning maybe today the action that you take is when you see that person that you're like, "Holy crow, she lost a lot of weight." I don't say, "My God, you look incredible," especially if my kid is next to me.

You know, my impressionable 14-year-old son or daughter or whatever, 'cause boys are impacted [00:40:00] by this too, FYI. Yeah, they're not trying to be thin, but they're trying to bulk up with muscles. Like it's the same thing. Just looks a little bit more like socially acceptable, right? Socially acceptable to want more muscles, not socially acceptable to want to starve yourself, right?

Although it's becoming socially acceptable to want to starve yourself. So just being careful about the compliments you give and just maybe even being careful about how you speak in your house, right? So if your kids are around and you're like, "Did you see whoever, so-and-so? Like he looks amazing. That guy lost 100 pounds.

Like can you believe it?" People are listening. Kids are listening. You know, they hear you. So just be very careful about what you compliment, how you speak about bodies How you speak about your own body, right? Not like the, you know, bar mitzvah's coming up, I'm not eating this chub. It's like I can't- I need to fit into that, to that suit next week, that dress next week.

Stop talking that way. And then even if, depending on the age of your kids and if they have social media, having a conversation about like, "Hey, I know you're probably seeing like bodies online that are being like celebrated as like amazing and normal and healthy. Like, we just have to talk about that 'cause that's not normal and healthy."

You know, and I think sometimes [00:41:00] it's like a real shock to their system, you know, teenagers especially, when you show them like, "Hey, here's what like a regular, normally nourished body looks like, and here's what like..." And sometimes they're like, "Wait, what? Oh my God." Like, I thought that that was... You know? I think we don't even know anymore what's healthy.

So I think that we just have to like keep in mind how we speak, what our kids are seeing, what we're seeing. 'Cause y- like even you were describing, like you with your fully developed prefrontal cortex, you know? And like knowing what you know, even you can get online and be like, "My God," like, "Wow, I feel so bad about myself."

So imagine the kid that doesn't have this, you know? So I think just having like those conversations about what we've normalized, right? That like underfueled is not aspirational. It's not healthy. It's not good for you. Um, understanding like that healthy behaviors have nothing to do with how you look. And maybe just challenging yourself about what you think health is, you know?

Again, I always say health is like so complex. It's... There's so many factors that contribute to it, and I think it's less [00:42:00] about your BMI and like what you had for lunch, and more about like, do you like the people that you hang out with? Do you have a good relationship with your parents, your spouse, your siblings, your fr- Do you have friends?

Do you like your job? You know? And maybe if you don't like your job, do you feel like you have enough money to pay your bills? Like those kinds of thi- This is what matters more, you know? So let's think about that. Like those are more the indicators of health, um, and things that actually impact our health, meaning if we don't have a good support system and we're miserable in our marriage and our kids hate us or we hate our kids, our stress levels are gonna be terrible, and that impacts your body and your health and your functioning.

So just thinking about maybe reframing how you define health and wellness, you know? It's not a body size. It's more a state of mind and a state of being, you know?

Dr. Millie Schweky: Wow. This was super incredible. Thanks for having me. Can't wait for it to come out. Thank you for your time. This was really amazing and so important.

And you know what? I kinda shied away from this kind of stuff for a while. Um, but I know that if I need to hear it, then everyone needs to hear [00:43:00] it-

Rachel Tuckman: Yeah ... '

Dr. Millie Schweky: cause I'm just one of you. So, uh, really thank you. It was amazing to hear you

Rachel Tuckman: It was so nice. I'm so glad we got to connect.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Of course. And if anyone wants to find you, where can they do so?

Rachel Tuckman: So I am on Instagram, racheltuchmanlmhc. You can find me there. Um, I also have a website where I have a lot of different things that I write about. It's racheltuchman.com. Great. We'll

Dr. Millie Schweky: put it, put your blog in the show notes.

Rachel Tuckman: Yes. Yeah, you can see me there, and then you can sign up for emails. I don't email very often.

Just when I write something, I'll usually just send it out, so I won't be, like, spamming your inbox. Um, but that's really where to find me. Yeah, I try to... I can't manage any more than that. Instagram and my website.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Perfect. Okay. Well, your presence online is definitely notable, and whoever doesn't know Rachel yet, please follow along.

Thank

Rachel Tuckman: you. All right.