S2 Ep4: Self-Leadership First - Values-Led Leadership, Unseen Work and Privilege with Lucy Philip

What if one of the most powerful things a leader can do isn’t to fix others — but to understand themselves first?

In this episode of the She Leads Collective Podcast, I’m joined by Lucy Philip, winner of Best Female Leader at the Best Business Women Awards, founder of Purposefully Blended (now celebrating 10 years), former nurse, coach, and single parent to three children.

Lucy shares why leadership begins with self-leadership — understanding your unconscious patterns, noticing what you default to under pressure, and choosing curiosity over control. We talk about the “ask” approach (and why telling people what to do erodes creativity), how perfectionism can keep us disconnected from ourselves, and what it really took for Lucy to shift from Perfectly to Purposefully.

We also explore the unseen load many women carry, why it isn’t a level playing field, and how leaders can create genuine opportunity by asking better questions and designing flexibility around real life. Lucy speaks candidly about privilege and allyship too — how to open doors and keep them open for others, without defensiveness or paralysis.

If you’re navigating complexity, leading change, or trying to stay human in high-performance environments — this one’s for you.

Connect with Lucy:
LinkedIn: Lucy Philip
Website: purposefullyblended.co.uk

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 ✨ Produced by Mary Gregory Leadership Coaching

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to She Leads Collective Podcast. I'm Mary Gregory and I'm so glad you're here. This podcast is a space for honest conversations about what it really means to lead as a woman today and how we can all show up with more courage, care, and clarity. You'll hear from inspiring women, powerful allies, and bold truth tellers who are changing the game not by playing tougher but by leading smarter, softer, and stronger. Hello and welcome to today's episode of the She Lee's Collective podcast. So, what of the most powerful thing a leader can do isn't to fix others, but to truly understand themselves first? Well, today's conversation is a beautiful exploration of that. I'm delighted to be joined by Lucy Phillip, winner of the Best Female Leader at the Best Business Women Awards, a category I had the privilege of sponsoring and presenting last year, and that's where I met Lucy. Lucy is the founder of Purposefully Blended, a highly successful sought-after leadership consultancy that celebrated its 10th anniversary recently. She is also a single parent to three children, a former nurse, a coach, and a leader whose work is deeply rooted in humanity, mindfulness, and values-led leadership. And I see Lucy as a really powerful role model for exactly all those things. Lucy's philosophy is clear. Leadership starts with self-leadership, knowing yourself, understanding your unconscious patterns, being honest about what you need, leaning into your network, and having the courage to be vulnerable, even and especially when you're successful. In this conversation, we're gonna hope we're gonna be exploring how unseen. I'm gonna just do that again, Lucy. In this conversation, we're gonna be exploring how unseen work, privilege, identity, and inner leadership shape not just individual leaders, but organizational culture itself. Lucy is also deeply aware of her position as a white woman leader, and she speaks openly about how she wants to use that privilege to create space and opportunity for others. I'm hoping this is going to be a really rich, honest, and deeply human conversation, one that speaks to leadership as it really is, not that we often hold it as it should be. So, Lucy, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you giving up your time.

unknown 2:37

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Thanks, Mary, and thank you for that fabulous introduction. I'm really delighted uh to be here and having a chat with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yes, it is lovely. So, and you know, I've got to say, you are you are somebody who stands out for me because a lot of the things you say absolutely resonate with me, and I think we share a lot of common values. So it's it's gonna be interesting to see what comes out in our conversation today. But first of all, um let's kick off with your philosophy because you've got a very, you know, it stands out in spades and it's a very powerful philosophy, and it's also supported you to be so successful. So you often say that the job of the leader is to work on themselves. What actually led you to hold that belief?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Thanks, Mary. I was giving some thought to this, um, and it was really interesting because about 20 years ago, I think I was working for Gladiusniff Klein at the time, and I was in a learning and development role, and um they gave me the opportunity to become an insights discovery practitioner. So, for anyone that doesn't know what insights discovery is, it's a psychometric tool that is commonly used in global organisations, um, and it's still very commonly used. Um, it's one of the most utilised tools out there. But the interesting thing was, I was I was in this practitioner training, so I was there for a week, and um, I think it was about on day one, and they put a picture up on the screen, and I vividly remember it was a picture of a horse, and they went round the circle and they asked everybody to to say four words out loud that immediately sprang to mind about the horse. And I can remember I was about sort of fourth person to go, and the first three people just gave words that had not even occurred to me before. And I sat there thinking, have I done this exercise wrong? Um, because I'd gone down the very logical route of well, the horse has got four legs and it's a tail and um and there's a sun in the background, and but the people that had gone before me had made beautiful stories in in their heads of the picture, and it was the first time I think it really truly dawned on me that we are all so different in terms of how we take in and process information. Um, and I think that was my first sort of vivid memory about needing to really understand yourself and not assume that you are exactly the same as everybody else. And the great thing is about understanding yourself is that you can then start to recognise difference in others. And when you can recognise difference in others as a leader, um, you can then flex and adapt your behaviour to bring out the best in others. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And that is that is such a crucial skill in today's world of just constant, constant change. Um, uh, being able to flex and be agile as a leader is so important. So that self-understanding supports that uh leadership agility. So uh speaking of agility, then you've had a very colourful career because you talk about being an LD uh manager at Smith Klein Blackso. Um, but your early career was as a nurse. So tell us a bit more about how your nursing background has shaped the way you think about leadership and humanity at work.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, it's um it's hard to remember that kind of chapter of my life now because it feels it feels so long ago. How long ago was it? I mean, I went into nursing from from college, so I went to nursing, nursing school, um, rather than as people would traditionally go to universities, um, because at the time you went to a school of nursing which was based in a hospital. So these days I think people tend to go to universities still, even if they're they're doing more vocational courses. Um, so yeah, it was it was a long time ago. Um, I think I'll leave it there. It was um it was a long time ago, and I think, but what is interesting is that I always knew that I wanted to be a nurse. So from a young age, that was the career that I was gonna I was gonna go into. And but what struck me really, really quickly when I became a nurse um was that I was a bit of a square peg in a round hole. So I really wanted to make things better. Um, I recognised from an early age that I was a change agent. Um, I wasn't happy to just accept things as they were if they weren't working properly. And I found that that was hard in nursing. Um, it was quite hard to be the one that always wanted to change things, the one that always questioned things, the one that was curious. And I quite quickly started to look for other careers that would enable me to use my nurse qualification, but would enable me to be more of the change in the world that I wanted to see. Um, and that was what then took me out of nursing, but still very much using my nurse education into the commercial, commercial world. But to go back to your question about how it's kind of shaped me in leadership and humanity, I think it gives me such a deep grounding and sense of perspective. Um, when I think back to some of the life and death experiences I had as a nurse and things that I dealt with at the age of 19, you know, like I was 19 when I first qualified. And, you know, really making some life and death decisions, seeing parts of humanity that you that most people never see. And I think what that really helped me to do when I moved into the industry then, the commercial industry, was kind of keep a deep sense of perspective, you know, is anyone gonna die in this? You know, if we don't, if we don't get this back to somebody by the deadline, what's the consequence of that gonna be? You know, and really question where this urgency is sometimes coming from. Um, I think the other thing that it really helped me to do was to identify really early on what my character strengths were. And I think that's really useful when it comes to being resilient because once you know what your character strengths are, you're then more able to lean into them at the hard times. Um, and I think it's probably there that I, you know, I kind of always knew that humour was a big was a big part of my life, but I think that probably really came into the forefront a lot with nursing in terms of using that as a coping strategy. So being able to find joy, to be able to laugh at like, you know, things that most people would find find horrifying, but just as a way to kind of bring lightness into what can be quite heavy situations. Very good.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

And um that there's so it's what I hear very strongly is it gave you a foundation that is still with you today.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my my current partner that I'm with, he's military background, and he had a very we have very shared experience from that point of view. You know, we talk very much about the things that we saw from an early age, and I think it does shape you. It shapes you to be much more pragmatic, um, to be more tolerant, I think, of others, more accepting of different situations. Um, and I think about 10 years ago, actually, just before I about the same time as I set the business up, I got an opportunity to do some humanitarian work as well. And that was a big part of my life, I'd say three or four years. Um, and I went out to some refugee camps um where situations were really desperate. Um, and I saw, you know, the rawest form of humanity, you know, the kind of humanity where people are trying to find food for their children, you know, where there aren't even the most basic provisions. And I think it does keep you really grounded because when you've been in those situations, you've seen that even in the most desperate times, people can still find kindness, they can still find forgiveness, they can still laugh, they can still find joy. It really is such a powerful lesson to those of us that are lucky to have more privilege that nothing is ever going to be as bad as that. And if people can still find the joy in those situations, then the joy must be there.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I mean, in the last few years, as the phrase has been coined first world problem, I think we often get very het up about first world problems, and really there are so many much more serious things that people are having to deal with. But bringing that back to your work in organizations, both when you were employed and your career in in the more corporate world, but also running your own consultancy, what has that real strong sense of humanity? How does that contribute to organisations? Because I think organise uh and my my qu let me qualify that. I think organizations can easily lose touch with it and get very targets focused, very results driven. Do do do. We've got to just get there and sometimes forget about the behaviours that are going to support them to get there most effectively. So tell me more about how humanity um and having such a strong sense of humanity contributes in that world.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

I think for me it always starts with connecting on a human level, and we do a lot of work within the business about supporting leaders to develop better coaching skills. And for me, that's not because we want them all to become life coaches, but what we do want is for them to have more of an ask approach to their leadership. So to seek to understand more. Um, and for me, that's really powerful work. Um, because what I see time and time again is people that are promoted into leaders' leadership roles because they are great subject matter experts. They are very good at doing the job that they do. And then in the absence of any leadership skills or any support to develop new skills that are required to be a great leader, they end up falling back on their subject matter expertise and automatically start to tell people what to do. And as humans, we don't like being told what to do, do we? And it and you know, very quickly over time, it erodes people's creativity, um, it erodes people's self-confidence. You then end up potentially with a team that are very self-reliant on you as a leader. Um, and you you end up with people that leave because they don't feel that they are being developed, they're not being listened to, their skills are being wasted. So for me, it's all about how can we support leaders to lean in with curiosity, to ask great questions, to seek to understand first. And Simon Sinek would say, you know, be the last to speak, wouldn't he? And I think, you know, we talk about that a lot, but in practice it's hard. Um, especially when your confidence is deeply rooted in your subject matter expertise. Because human nature, you know, we will gravitate when when we start to feel our foundations are rocked, we will gravitate to the things that we have confidence in, which, you know, nine times out of ten will be the job that we are leading other people to be suspecting.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yes, and there's something there as well about particularly when you're under pressure, and with so many organizations being very fast moving and the focus is delivery, um, that creates a kind of pressure. So it's almost the perfect storm, the sense of this is what I'm good at. I know I've been promoted into this role because I'm good at it, so and I've got this huge pressure to deliver. So it's so easy to go to that default of telling, isn't it? Rather than engaging.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, and I think I you know, I spend a lot of time talking to leaders about, you know, what what holds you back from asking more? What makes you think that you have to be the one with all the answers? You know, probing deeply to actually understand what's stopping them from doing it. And and the first answer you generally get from everybody is, oh, I haven't got time for that. Um, I haven't got time to ask questions. And there's this illusion that actually, if we lead with an ask approach, that it will take much more time. But actually, it's a false economy, isn't it? Because it will take more time in the long run if you don't invest the time up front. And and for me, it's often just the power of one simple question and then sitting back, pausing, and allowing the other person to respond.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yes, yes, absolutely. And it is an investment of time in the early days, but my goodness, it's certainly, if you end up with a really high-performing team, it is going to end up with so much save time and probably innovate much better solutions as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah. And I think, you know, relating back to your earlier question about, you know, why do we need to understand ourselves as leaders before we can support others, you know, I think in the absence of understanding yourself and recognizing that a strength is different, what happens is you end up recruiting people that are all carbon copies of you, that think like you, act like you, and you find yourself in a situation where you've got groupthink where everybody just agrees with the leader and there's no creative problem solving. And in the VUCA world that we're operating in, we have to be continuing to be creative problem solvers.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yes. And VUCA, for those that don't understand what VUCA is, VUCA is a description of the world that we lead in today, which is volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. And I think that's a great summing up of the challenges that we face actually in organizations and in the world as a whole when it comes to leadership. But let's come back. I'm conscious we've been on a wonderful tangent there, but I hope it's been full of lots of insights and values for our listeners. Let's bring you back to your a a bit more of your story. So you talk quite openly about your perfectionism and moving towards being rather than understanding your perfectionism, being more focused on purpose. What did the shift look like for you personally?

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, and that's a really good question because actually the business was originally called perfectly blended. So when I set the business up 10 years ago, I called it perfectly blended. And I believed at that time that it was possible to have everything to be perfect. Um, and in my mind, that was, you know, the perfect family life, the perfect career, the perfect holidays, the perfect balance. The Instagram, what I call showreel life, um, was I guess what I had in mind. And, you know, when I when I set the business up, I was in a kind of I was married with with three children and you know, just left my corporate career very successfully, um, with a great pension behind me, and the time was really right to then start the business. Um, and what the shift looked like for me really was hitting rock bottom, I would say. So my marriage, um, my marriage, um, I don't know what the word is really, uh, you know, there was a parting of ways between between me and my husband, um, a mutual understanding that actually we weren't making each other happy anymore. Um, and during that time it was difficult. I was doing an awful lot of global travel. Um, so this was pre-COVID. Um, most months I was traveling two or three times um uh around the world, all sorts of places from China to Dubai to Russia, all over the world delivering training. Um, and at that period I was doing a lot of freelance work for other bigger learning and development organizations, and I did not tell a soul. So I did not tell anybody that this was what was going on in my life. I just carried on. And when I look back now, I look at that period as me being an actress in my own life. So during that period, I stayed in some of the best hotels, I went to some of the most amazing countries, met some fabulous people, but I couldn't really tell you much about that time because I wasn't connected, I wasn't connected to myself. Um automatic pilot? Yeah, I was in survival mode. Um, and you can only carry on in survival mode for so long before you realise that something needs to change. Um, and you know, it was the start for me of formalising my coaching qualifications. So I'd always informally coached and been in roles where coaching was a big part of what I did. Um, but I was conscious that I didn't have a worldwide recognised qualification as a coach. So I decided that I wanted to go back to um to take to back to the books um and go on a proper coaching course. And it was during that time that I obviously got the benefit of lots and lots of free coaching. So for so for anyone that's not been on that that kind of program before, generally it's set up as a triad. So you're in a group for all of the practical stuff, you're in a group of three and you You take your turn to be the subject matter, your turn to be the coach, and your turn to be the observer and give feedback. So I had lots of subject matter to bring to the table at that time in my life. And I got the benefit of lots of lots of coaching and I did some deep soul searching. I also had a period of um going down the um the um what's the word? Um the modality of coaching that's more therapeutic as well. So I did quite a lot of um psycho, oh gosh, the word escapes. No, um psychotherapy? Yes. So yes, that's right. Thanks, Mary. My menopausal brain hits me every so often. I have a complete uh complete uh blackout of the word. But um, yeah, so so I did some deep work in terms of my own um my own life. And it was during that time that I connected more deeply with what made me happy, um, connected more deeply with what it was that I wanted, um, and specifically also what I wanted from the business. Um, and then over a period of time, it felt really right to change the name of the business from perfectly to purposefully, because I really believe that our work that we do within the organization is really helping people to find their own purpose and being able to, where possible, connect that purpose with an organizational purpose and find that overlap, which is the sweet spot then where you have people thriving within organizations.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

That is a beautiful example of um getting off the, you know, being on the treadmill, hamster's wheel, as I call it, and not necessarily being conscious of it initially, just go, go, go, because you're in survival mode. And that is the risk of survival mode, is we don't always notice that we're that's where we're at until things start to start cracking up, really. But to actually step off with the coaching program, to start doing some work on yourself, building your insights, building your personal foundation, and then to start to allow it's that space that allows your purpose to emerge and to then help you refocus and therefore and also shift everything around you, is what I'm hearing, is you're at the core of it, but everything around you starts to shift when you get that understanding of actually this is what I'm here to really do. This is what's really meaningful for me.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I mean, for me, there's a real like poignant moment when I was when I was having that psychotherapy where the the psychotherapist asked me, you know, what makes you happy? And I didn't even know. And you know, I think that's really common. I think people get so caught up in that I should do this, um, this is what people are expecting of me, and continuing on that road, that actually you become deeply disconnected with yourself, um, especially as a mother as well, because you're so, you know, as a mother of three children, you know, you spend so much time thinking about what makes my children happy, um, that that leaves very little time organically to think about what makes you happy and to lean into those things. And I think once we do have a deep understanding about what makes us happy, it's really powerful because we can then lean into those things at times where we know that our motivation is is waning or that we know that we're struggling, um, we can purposefully lean into those things as opposed to you know falling into some of those more unhealthy um uh sort of ways of you know drinking or going on social media and losing two hours, scrolling other people's perfect lives. Um, so yeah, it's really, really powerful. And I think for me that was really where I started to see gratitude um as absolutely fundamental in terms of mental health and you know, making time to regularly making time to really connect with the things that you're grateful for.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Wonderful. And I also get a sense of that deep work that you know we live in this quick fix world where, you know, I just want to be able to sort this out immediately or wave a magic wand and it's all done. Um, and yet it's the deep work that I think really makes that lasting, sustainable difference and also makes the rest of your life so much easier because when you've got that core understanding and self-awareness, it's so much easier to make a decision about which is the right way forward for me. Because does this sit with who I am?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

It is, and it's funny because I've just come back. I was telling you that I just come back from a weekend with five of my girlfriends that I've been best friends with since school, and they kind of know me the best. And they would probably have described me as a doer. You know, I am a doer, I get stuff done, you know, and always on the go, you know, balancing a big plate. And so that was a real fundamental shift for me to go inwards because it's far easier just to carry on, um, to brush all that to one side and just put it in a box or close a cupboard and move on without really taking taking that time. And for me, I think that was a fundamental shift in me and my shift as a leader as well. Because I think maybe that's why I find it so easy to connect with leaders who do have that doing tell way of being, because that was me. Um, I was that person, you know, coach with title of coach, but doing anything other than coaching.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yes, yes. You've got a great story to be able to share with them. But I also am aware that many people feel nervous about going into something like psychotherapy. What would your advice be to them?

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I think my my advice to them would be that I think you've got to you've got to trust your therapist. You know, you've got to trust whether it's a coach, a counsellor, a psychotherapist, you've got to trust them and really believe that they can hold safe space for you. Um, that you know, you can bring whatever to that session and trust that that person will be able to deal with that and support you to move through. And that was really important for me because obviously to have these deep sessions, but ultimately then I still had to go back to building my business, managing my household. Wasn't going to be able to have the luxury of going off to a darkened room for you know for several days to recover. So I had to really trust that my therapist was going to hold that space for me. So I think it's important to look around and to choose the right person, to see if you can get super clear on what it is that you want from those from those sessions, because I think then that helps you get really grounded in the benefits because it will fall hard. Yes, very good.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

So coming back to your business, which is high a highly successful consultancy, um, which you've created, you've actually scaled your business. So it is, you know, it's not just a one-man band, you've got a whole team of associates, a whole team that support you in the background. You are absolutely a great example of a purpose-led values-driven leader. What choices were the hardest for you as the business scaled? Because I think the thing about that is to stay congruent. You have to live your life in tune with your values. So, what made it hard for you, or what were the hard things as you scaled your business?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

So, I think one of the one of the hardest things was was to move away from the security of the freelance work. And I think this is a common, is a common path that a lot of people recognise that when you first set up the business, you are the asset in essence. So you, you know, the safety is signing up as an associate for other bigger organizations. It's very transactional, you know you're going to get paid for the work, you know that you can do a great job, but ultimately you are limited in terms of your your earning potential by the amount of hours in the day and how how many days you want to spend delivering or coaching. Um, but it feels safe. And I think particularly as a single mum, um, I have no one coming to save me from a from a salary point of view. You know, if I have a bad month, there's nobody that's stepping in to pay the mortgage for me or to, you know, to buy the new school shoes or send the money for the university, um, you know, accommodation and things. So I think to then make the leap from being a freelancer to actually building your own business, where the clients come directly to you, that for me was probably the hardest shift to make in the business. Um, and then the second thing I think is around making time to actually focus on the business rather than being in the business. Because the whole time you're in the business being the one that does the work, always being the one that's customer-facing. Um, as much as I enjoy the delivery, I really enjoy the coaching, what that isn't doing is growing, is growing the business because growing the business requires so much more in terms of the back office support and all the other things that go on in terms of scaling a business. So I think it's being really conscious of how much time you spend in the vis business versus on the business and how much time you allow yourself to do that bigger thinking. And what enabled you to make both those shifts?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Both the saying no to associate work, so being clear, I'm gonna go and get my own business and go and get my own clients. I'm saying no to that, even though the safety net is that well, that'll pay the mortgage and that'll you know put food on the table. And also the stepping back and not doing. And I suppose I'm I'm asking for a friend here. Because I think I'm a I'm a great doer and I love the work with clients. So I'd far rather be doing that than marketing, for example. So tell us a bit more about how you actually achieve both of those things.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Well, I'm still on a journey with it, Mary. I don't think anyone's a done deal, are they? I still have to kind of remind myself every day of these things and and pull myself back into shape. I think the freelance one was again a bit of a rude awakening, I'd say, when COVID hit, um, and I obviously found myself at home with three children. All of my children have got um a degree of neurodiversity, all slightly different. Um, so at that time, with you know, the needs homeschool, it was a really, really difficult time. I was trying to balance the business with the needs of the children. And at the time I was predominantly freelancing um and I was working a lot. It was a very successful time in terms of the revenue I was bringing in, but a very difficult time in terms of balancing everything. And it really made me realize that my people pleasing was kind of in overdrive. And I think ultimately, once I realized that I was building somebody else's business for them, it was that moment where I thought to myself, if I'm going to work this hard, I should maybe go back to being a director of learning somewhere. Um, you know, like a director of talent or a director of learning and development, and have the safety of a salary coming in, um, pension, holiday, all of those things. So I had a choice to make really do I go back and do that, or do I make something of my own business? And it was a gradual sort of over time, sort of doing less and less freelance, building myself up to do more and more of my own work, getting super clear on what it was that I wanted our niche to be as well. And that takes time, you know, understanding the things that you're good at, the things that bring you joy, and then really calling those things in as the kind of work that you that you want to do. So that was the kind of the scaling of the freelance work. I'd say with the with the other question about how do I how do I do less and work on the business more, that's an ongoing, an ongoing challenge. Um, and I think it's constantly, my word for this year is intentional. And I think it's just getting really intentional about what it is that you want and whether the decisions that you make are aligned with that intentionality. Because it's very easy to get into autopilot and think, oh, you know, that work sounds really exciting. Let me look at my diary. Yes, I can fit it in, but it's not just yes, can I fit it in? It's yes, I can fit it in, but what will I not be doing if I'm going and delivering?

SPEAKER_01 33:13

What a great question to be asking yourself. Really great way to keep checking. I'm also curious about as a single parent, how you've made sure that you supported your family as you've grown your own business. How do you make sure you maintain the welfare of your family while you're navigating and leading a complex business?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah, and I think I would say, I suppose I am very glass half full. I always like to put a positive spin on things. And I think that running my own business has actually made allowed me to design a life that fits with family. It's allowed me to be with the children in an intentional way. Um, it's allowed me to to um structure my day in a way that works for us as a family. And I see that as a real blessing because I do recognize with a lot of the ladies, ladies that I coach, senior leaders, they don't have that. So they don't have that ability to start at 10 o'clock in the morning having walked the dog and drop the children off to school and had a bit of time to breathe before you before you get to the desk. Um, they don't have the ability to go and just do a Pilate session in the middle of the day because you need to do that to stay um to stay healthy and happy. And I will work a lot in the evenings because that tends to be a time where my creative flow is is um is better. And now I've got teenagers, they they need me less in the evenings. They need me to be around, but they don't really want to be necessarily spending a lot of time with me. So as the children's needs have changed, I've been able to redesign my days to make allowances for that, and I feel very blessed. And I think it is my business that has allowed me to do that. But there's no doubt that there have, you know, there there have been challenges along the way, you know, there there are many a long day, you know, there are there are many times where, particularly in lockdown, and I think that was where I needed to make the change, where I was writing proposals till two, three, four o'clock in the morning, then getting up and running the training the next day, balancing the the homeschooling, and you know, then the realization that I'm writing a proposal for somebody else's business. Um so you know, there have been definite challenges along the way, but I think one of the main things I would say is about really thinking deeply about what is success. And I think in the early days of my business, for success for me was year-on-year turnover growth in the business. That's what defined whether my business was successful and my self-worth to a certain extent. And then actually I reached a point where I kind of thought, do I want to grow the business? Do I want to grow the revenue? Is that my is that my version of success? And actually I realized no, it wasn't. Once I brought in a certain amount of money that I needed to maintain the lifestyle that that we wanted, to have a certain level of security in case there were months in the business that were slower than others, actually, my peace and my homework balance were far more important to me than continuing to grow the business at that rate.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

I think that's a fantastic example of a different definition of success. We're so hooked on to it's about having the fancy car and the big whatever, but actually having that inner peace, that chance to have quality time with your loved ones, much more powerful definitions of success. And there's so many different definitions of success, it's a very personal thing. So um, that's a great example. Thank you, um, Lucy. So, in our prep call, we talked about gender and um the balance between what men and women have to carry, um, and we talked about the unseen work that women do. How do you see that playing out for women in leadership today?

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Uh I think it's not a level playing field. I think is the is the simplest way to say, you know, men and women can be given the same opportunities, but they don't have necessarily the same capacity. Um, and capacity, I mean all sorts of things. Capacity could mean they don't have the same amount of hours in the day that are free to work. It could be that they don't have the same brain capacity because the capacity is so taken up with all the other things that they do, whether that's looking after elderly relatives or taking care of all of the logistics of the house, the organization of the house, the buying of the presents, the planning of the birthday parties, um, all of those things, the unseen things that go on, um, both inside and outside the workplace, that take up a lot of capacity, often for women. So it's not a level playing field. I think it was really interesting for me during lockdown because I was one of the few training um professionals that was already doing a lot of virtual training. So because I've always um done a lot of global work, I'd always done virtual training for as long as I can remember. Obviously, things have got a bit more sophisticated these days in terms of the tools that are available. But before lockdown, I was regularly using Zoom and running training online. So my world became very busy very quickly because everybody was requesting online training for um for their people that were staying at home, you know, the people that were in remote roles, customer-facing roles, they weren't able to go out and see those customers. So they thought it'd be a great time for them to learn some new skills, to have some development. And it really became obvious to me when I was running this training the difference between the men that were showing up at the training versus the women and what they were how they were showing up in terms of their capacity. And I think one one day a lady a lady turned up and she was breastfeeding her child at the same time as you know, as the as the learning was was going on. And I and I said to her, you know, absolutely, if you if this is making it uncomfortable, you know, please feel free to you know dip out of the training. She was like, no, it's absolutely fine. You know, I'm really happy. If you're happy for me to carry on, I'm I'm happy to carry on. And you know, the amount of toddlers that were popping up on the women's cameras that they were dealing with on the side, versus what you see with the with the camera of the men, where they're just kind of fully concentrating on on. what's going on with cups of tea mysteriously arriving across their shoulder? No, very, very different for me. And I think that is, you know, especially as women are moving into menopause as well, their their brain fog, their capacity is is different. And I think that therefore it's not a level, it's not a level playing.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

So from your perspective, what do you think would be the one thing that we could do, a simple thing that would actually start to even up that playing field?

SPEAKER_00 40:29

I think I'm going to begin to sound like a crack record in this um in this podcast because for me it always comes back to the leader asking better questions to really understand what's going on for that individual. And the simple question, you know, there's a development a development opportunity potentially for that woman. Simple, simple question what would need to happen to enable you to embrace this opportunity? As opposed to what so often happens is you're presented an exciting opportunity and in the back of your head you're like how can I possibly balance all of this alongside everything else I do? No worries, I'll just load an extra thing on and I'll I'll find a way to cope. And so it's that swan, isn't it? You to everyone around you you're gracefully gliding along the surface but underneath you're peddling furiously for fear of missing out on that opportunity if you say no or someone or ever being offered that opportunity again. So I think there's two camps there's the women that try and balance it all and then silently kind of die inside bit by bit. And then there's the women that just say I'm sorry I can't take that opportunity and then they and then they miss out. So I think as leaders if we can get better at really understanding what is the unseen plate that people are managing I think then we can be much more supportive in being able to help people to continue to progress but not at the expense of their health and happiness. And motivation is so connected to people feeling happy and we know that when people are highly motivated they are their performance is is high as well. So there's a win in there for that leader to really understand the individuals that are working for them and what and what they are managing on the outside.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

It's also something I think at an organisational level to take into account too the McKinsey report of Women in the Workplace for 2025 actually identified that women are not as um it's not that women aren't ambitious but they aren't applying for the more senior roles because they're exhausted and it's not doesn't turn them on. And actually the risk is that organizations are then losing women because they want to go and have alternative careers and that is that's that's a threat to the diversity and the and the richness of the organization.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah so I think it's asking the right questions and then I think it's being open to to flexibility and to allow women to be able to design days that work better for them potentially where trust is at the forefront so where you trust that that individual is going to deliver what they say they're going to deliver and you allow them flexibility with the how they're going to go about delivering that.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Now Lucy you also talk about your own privilege as a white woman and your you your sense of responsibility with that and your desire to be a good ally. Tell us more about that and why you know what it is that you feel about your own female privilege how that emerged for you as an awareness and then how you contribute that to others.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah I suppose I'm in a unique position in that having mixed raised children um I've had the opportunity to gain deep insight into to what it's to what it's to insight into what it's like to not be white in the in the world that we the world that we live in. And so that really makes me more curious it makes me more interested it makes me more open-minded to understand the perspectives of others. And I suppose I would simply describe it as like I know that my white privilege opens doors for me that are closed to others. And so what it enables me to do is to open the door and then leave it open for others behind me and invite them in to follow as opposed to opening the door walking through it and closing it and saying thank you very much I've got my entry ticket sorry about the sorry about the rest of you. So it enables me to to make sure you know so in a simple way like I give you a simple example you know if I'm if I'm running a uh training program for for a big group of people I can invite everyone in the room to contribute. I can recognize the people that aren't naturally speaking up. I can invite them in to the conversation if I'm sitting around the boardroom table as I often do because we we really like to partner with the organisations that we work with. And in order to partner with them we need to truly understand their their place, you know, what goes on in the in their um in their organisation. So we're often in the privileged position where we sit around the boardroom table and we're privy to the strategy, we're privy to what it is that they want to deliver. And I can use my privilege there by inviting people into the conversation by asking curious questions that bring other people's perspectives to the table. And I can perhaps get away with doing that in a way that others may not. I can make sure that when I when I host podcasts or when I have advisory panels that I'm inviting diversity to my panel that I am you know conscious of bias. Everyone has bias like it or not we all have bias but but by making that normal and inviting a space where people can talk about their bias and you know work through that bias without fear of judgment.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

I mean you mentioned bias and I agree we all have bias and it's an ongoing journey to keep unraveling and taking the layers of the onion around our bias, reducing them. But you know you're when you're working with leaders within organizations how do you address the whole power and privilege piece with them you know so ex helping them explore what their biases might be without them becoming defensive or paralyzed by the whole conversation?

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah I think that's a really great it's a really great question. And for me you and you'd probably have some insights on on this from an NLP perspective as well Mary but but for me often when you're when you want people to think differently you have to mix things up. So in the learning environment I will do that through disassociation. So I will use things like short movie clips that people can relate to or share stories of things that have gone on for me personally or people that I have um worked with. And in doing that it then invites people to come to the table for the discussion in a way that feels safe. So they can understand their own world but through the eyes of of something else which often then removes the threat from that situation and opens up the conversation in a way that you you just wouldn't have that openness otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yes and I hear the whole thing about not making anyone wrong. You know, we're all human beings we all make mistakes we all have our biases it's about let's just explore and try and understand the world in a different way between us without pointing the finger and saying you're wrong to have that opinion.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah and I think what's really nice in some of the work that I do use in psychometric tools is it really opens up a common language and a disassociated language that people can then have difficult conversations that would otherwise probably be swept under the carpet and wouldn't be had. And I will often share stories about things that happen with my children um things that happen with people that are in my sphere that just allow us then to to talk about that um in a in a way that just opens opens people up.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Well and I hear that is about presenting yourself in a very human way and being willing to tell the dirty on yourself because you know and I don't know about you but I very rarely get it completely right. So it's like there's always going to be something I can share about what the learning was in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah and I think there's there's definitely a great learning into you know what does allyship look look like you know what what does it look like to to be an advocate you know and it isn't jumping in and saving people it isn't having a voice for those for those people and I think probably old old me when I was in my tell kind of more of my tell phase I still have to keep it in check so sometimes um I I might have jumped in and been the voice for them. And now I look back and I think in a horrified way and I think how disabling would would that feel you know for that individual for somebody else to to be the voice as opposed to a small tweak which is just inviting that person to share their own voice in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Lovely okay so we're moving into our final reflections now um Lucy. So looking back over the last decade what do you think leadership has taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Gosh I think I've covered a lot of that haven't I already in summary then I think leading I think leadership's like exposes the the it exposes the deep dark and ugly doesn't it um so I so I think when you when you truly go inwards on your journey you uncover things that you don't really like about yourself. You know you uncover a lot of like your saboteurs I mean we haven't even got on to like you know some of the saboteurs that can get in our way like which relates to ego doesn't it hugely yeah so like you know the controller it you know and for me I I uncovered you know that that I am a stickler you know I have really high expectations of myself and often those expectations spill out to others as well. And so it's taught me that I need to recognize and name those things so that I can see when they're starting to present themselves and I can hold them back and be more conscious about leaning into the things that connect me deeper with others which are having empathy showing curiosity um allowing others grace.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

I'm just so struck I think I've used the word beautiful a lot in our conversation and summing up because you do express yourself beautifully and sum up these these these points and areas so beautifully as well. What is your final piece of wisdom you'd like to share with us today so if our listeners are listening to you and they're hearing about your wonderful story and what you've learned about leadership and your philosophy around leadership, what final wisdom would you like them to to leave them with?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

So I'm sure we're all familiar with the analogy of putting your own face mask on first before you put the you know before you give the face mask to others back to the aeroplane you know where it's the the the oxygen mask. Yeah if you've got a child on your lap you know make sure you put your own oxygen mask on first and I used to kind of roll my eyes when people referred to that in leadership. But I think it is really really true because the time that we take to invest in ourselves as leaders um really pays dividends in terms of how we connect with others and how we are then able to move forward and inspire people to come along the journey with us. And sometimes that feels it feels counterproductive to take time out when things are busy but actually sometimes we need to slow down in order to speed up.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

That's that that actually was one of my intentions a few years ago was making sure you slow down and take that time to reflect to meditate whatever it is you need to do because when you return to whatever it is you were working with you're so much more refreshed. You can see things in such a different perspective. Lucy you have been a fantastic role model for us today of what value centered leadership looks like what authentic leadership looks like. It's been a real delight to speak with you and thank you so much for all that you've shared.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Oh well thank you Mary thanks for the opportunity and thank you for sponsoring the award as well it was an absolute highlight of last year to to be the recipient on the first year that you'd actually sponsored the award as well so thank you very much is it's been great to get to know you better as well. Thank you and if people want to connect with you how can they connect with you? So they can connect with me via LinkedIn um Lucy Philip or they can you know connect via our website which is uh purposefullyblended co.uk thank you so much for listening to the She Leads Collective podcast.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

If this episode resonated with you follow the show or share it with a friend and leave a quick review below. Or leave us a comment change happens through conversation so let's keep this one going. Listen out for the next episode and join me as we keep lifting the lid on the stories that matter. Take care and keep leading with heart