S3 Ep3 The Mental Load at Home: Steph Douglas on Equality, Relationships and Women’s Leadership

Why do so many high-performing women still carry the invisible weight of running everything at home?

In this second conversation with Steph Douglas, we shift the focus from business to what’s happening behind the scenes — and why it matters more than we often acknowledge.

In this follow-up episode, Mary continues the conversation with Steph Douglas, founder of Don’t Buy Her Flowers, to explore the reality of the mental load — the invisible planning, organising and emotional labour that many women continue to carry.

Together, they unpack how traditional roles still shape modern relationships, why equality at home is often harder than it looks, and how this hidden load directly impacts women’s careers, energy and progression.

Steph shares her own honest experience of navigating resentment, difficult conversations and redefining partnership with her husband — and what has helped them move towards a more balanced way of living and working.

They also explore what organisations can do differently, why role modelling matters, and how small shifts at home can create bigger shifts at work.

This is a practical, honest and deeply relevant conversation for anyone who cares about leadership, gender equity and what it really takes to create sustainable success.

Connect with Steph on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephdouglas/

Visit Don't Buy Her Flowers - https://www.dontbuyherflowers.com/

Listen to Stephs podcast or read her blog -

https://www.dontbuyherflowers.com/blog

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 ✨ Produced by Mary Gregory Leadership Coaching

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to SheLeads Collective Podcast. I'm Mary Gregory and I'm so glad you're here. This podcast is a space for honest conversations about what it really means to lead as a woman today and how we can all show up with more courage, care and clarity. You'll hear from inspiring women, powerful allies and bold truth tellers who are changing the game not by playing tougher but by leading smarter, softer and stronger. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the She Leads Collective podcast. Why do so many high-performing women still carry the invisible weight of running everything at home, no matter how equal their relationship looks on the surface? We talk so much about leadership in the workplace, but far less about what's happening behind the scenes at home, when actually what is happening there makes such a difference to how people show up at work. For many women, no matter how senior or successful they are, there's still an invisible layer of responsibility they carry. We call it the mental load, the planning, the organising, the remembering, the things that often go unnoticed but take up significant headspace. Today I'm really pleased to welcome the return of my guest Steph Douglas, who I'm asking back because she brings a refreshing, honest, and practical perspective to this conversation. Alongside building a successful business, don't buy her flowers, Steph has also been exploring what equality really looks like in a relationship, particularly when it comes to parenting, partnership, and the mental load. And in fact, she writes a blog and has a podcast with this in mind. So I'm hoping this is going to be a conversation where we talk about what's fair, what's assumed, what needs to change, and how we start having more honest conversations both at home and at work. Welcome back, Steph. It's so good to have you here again. Yeah, thank you for having me again. Well, another very, very important topic that I could not leave unaddressed because it came out in our preparation call for your previous episode. You've spoken openly about equality at home. Why is this something that you feel so strongly about?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Oh, um, well, I just I think, and I didn't know this until I had children and was married and trying to navigate it all. I just think it's really, really hard. We're a generation of guinea pigs when it comes to the roles of, and I guess we're talking about, you know, in a in a heteronormative relationship, but where the roles of men and women, and then when you have children and what how those roles look, and most of us have been modelled quite traditional roles with our parents, like my mum worked, but she was also the one that was always at pick-up and drop-off and arranging playdates and birthdays and all of the ridiculous amount of stuff. I mean, there were six of us, so there was a lot. Um, but she yes, she she was there, and so my her my mum and dad had pretty clear, defined, traditional male and female roles, even though, and again, my dad helped and was, but it was very much kind of helping, I guess. And I think we're trying to do it very differently in our generation, but we don't have you know, we don't know how to do it, and it's really, really tough. And I think it is probably responsible for a huge number of divorces and marriage, you know, marriages not working up or unhappiness in marriages, but also I think it has a massive impact on women's ability to contribute to the economy, to running their own businesses, to what level they can get to in their workplaces, because if they are also, and which they are in most cases, managing the family, the home, the pickups, the drop-offs, all of that stuff, it's very hard to also be available to be in all the board meetings or the whatever it is you need to do to further your career. Um, so yeah, it's just a really difficult challenge that a lot of women feel and don't know that they're gonna feel until you have family. Like we, we, my husband and I, I used to earn more than him when we first got together. We were very equal. I had never it never crossed my mind that we wouldn't be at some point, but then the reality of having kids and me being on maternity leave and then me being the one that knew the baby the best and all that stuff, that happens for most couples. Um, if they have children, and that's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yes. I think what you touched on there as well is that in terms of what work, for many men, they just aren't aware of what women are carrying, and many organizations, I think women organizations are starting to open up and be more aware, but there is the kind of this blind spot because it is so invisible the load that women carry.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

And it's societal, like if you like the school, and actually our school of are quite forward thinking, but the intrad, like just taking if you've got a school-age kid, probably when something when a kid's ill, they ring mum, probably it's mum who handles most of the WhatsApp communication, which is the font of all knowledge for you know, and it and is a job in itself sometimes that tells you when there's swimming day or PE day or reading, you know, World Book Day, whatever it is. A lot of the time when when my kids were just started school, it was only when my daughter, who's my second child, started primary school, and one of the kids in her class had two dads. And so there was a mat, you know, there were a couple of men on the WhatsApp group. And I was like, Oh, why have we never had men on here before? And I on the other group, my son's group, I'd said, Why are there no men on here? And one of the women said, Oh, darling, I don't think they want to be on here. And I was like, Well, I don't really. I said something really flippant, and there was like this stony silence, and no one said anything. But it's like, oh, of course they're not gonna know when it's World Book Day if they're not on the bloody WhatsApp, which is where all of the information is. But we'd kind of blindly bumbled into it without thinking, and and I and I know it depends on your school and it depends on the parents and everything else, but in most cases it still will be the majority women, or there's men on there lurking, but they're not doing anything or contributing anything. Um and and it's not all men, but that that's the the the the way that's just one example like of how the school works, that it's primarily often mum that gets all the information. So that's not fair. If you're you know, and and in where we live, most people most couples are both working.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

So tell us a bit more about your own experience because I think what I loved in our initial conversation was you talked about how your partner and you have had such open and honest conversations about this. So, how have you navigated your own relationship?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah, I mean, it started with a lot of rows because I was really resentful because I couldn't, I didn't have the word that I didn't have the language, I didn't have the words, I didn't have the understanding to be able to communicate what I was feeling, which was frustration that it felt like, and this isn't completely accurate, but it felt like he hopped on a train, you know, left the house, la la la, hopped on a train, could read a paper, go and buy herself a sandwich, you know, had time. Whereas following having kids, I did not have that same, you know, I'd be sweating and running here and there and trying to drop off and pick up and da-da-da. It felt like a real imbalance, especially when before when you're on maternity leave, actually. And obviously that's the point of it is to be on maternity leave, but you then go and slip into these roles that are really separate, um, and it's hard to connect when you're in such separate roles. I think that has a massive impact on loads of couples. So, yeah, but it was when I started the business um that I really felt it because I was trying to do this thing that was going to take a lot of time and energy. But we it was things like the food shop. I I'm one time I remember I'd got the kids to bed. I was working till late, which is what I do, which you know, that was kind of just getting started. You do have to put in some hours, but and then I kind of shut the laptop and then went, Oh god, I need to do the food shop. And it was like 11 o'clock, and I think I started crying and was sitting on the sofa, just completely overwhelmed. And my husband was like, Well, I could do the food shop. And it was like, okay, and I just it just had been my job. I just had had slipped into that, and I think again, I think that's what happens, and some and I need to say, I think it's really important to say for some couples that might work, but if you're really resentful or you're not connecting because of it and you're not getting on and it feels really unfair, then it's not working. So then you need to have those conversations, and I think I was really lucky that I um in in having the podcasters, then reading books, and and I was lucky that Doug really engaged. So we had a lot of really horrible conversations where we couldn't connect these things, and then he has really engaged and has understood from my point of view, and it doesn't mean I'm always right and he's always wrong. Um, I mean I am obviously, but but it's more that try just going, no, this is a thing that exists that's really hard for both of us to understand how to navigate this. It's not just this is unfair on me. Um, I think also a big challenge is that for for men to step into a role that makes it more equal, they're gonna have to make some sacrifice. So why would they? Like it's a really big step to be, you know, like if you get to go off to work and you don't have to manage children in the same way and you don't have to remember all these million things, and that's what you've seen your dad do, and that's what you've seen lots of men around you do. Why would you? But there's a richness to life and to relationships that requires for me a more equality.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Which were the most important conversations and which the most difficult that you and Doug Doug had?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Uh it would be, I think when uh our eldest Buster was uh starting school, I was panicked because I was like, How on earth am I gonna do that? How am I gonna, you know, I'd started the business, but how am I gonna keep this going? And I've got a minimal short day with of nine till three, and I'm picking up and dropping up. Like how I I just couldn't figure it out. And he was like, Well, and he he went into work and said, I would like to take my son to school two days, which he worked in finance and he needed to be in at eight or whatever. So it meant he would drop him off at breakfast cup and be in by nine. And his boss said yes, and he so he hadn't told me this was happening. He came home and said, Okay, so two days a week I can do this, and then he he in started to enjoy it, like he realized that he got something from it because he got to see my see his son in the morning and have that chat that they have on the way when they're delicious and five years old, and you know, so he and I was obviously meant then happier because that meant I got that time. So I think those were kind of conversations that, but there was also him instigating some of that. Um, I think it's ongoing. I think that's what's also really hard. It's there'd be things like Doug said once, I think he only said it once, uh, uh I'll help you. The clear we've got a cleaner and she was away. And I was like, Oh god, that sort of keeps me together, like having that that resource is amazing and she's amazing. And he said, Oh, well, I I can help you by cleaning the bathroom. And then it was like, hang on a minute, like the language of that, you're helping me by cleaning our bathroom because it's my role, which it's it's not, it shouldn't be. But all of those things, I think what's helped those conversations is understanding why he might be, it's not because he's an idiot, it's not because he's an awful man, it's because of what we've been told and what society's saying, and the TV shows that we watched as kids and all those things which had that as mum's role. So it I think when you understand that this is actually a really big leap for both of you, it helps rather than what I probably felt when the kids were small, which is just really resentful. Like, why is he not understanding why I need more from him? Why is he not? And actually, that's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, so something about him being proactive is helpful, and also he's doing it for us, not helping you. It's like this is a sharp, we are a family, it's a shared responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah, it's not just on your shoulders, and you are then showing our children what a good, healthy relationship is and should be, which you want for your kids. I think for a lot of people, they struggle to want to have these conversations for themselves. But if you were to say so, if your daughter or son is in a relationship in 20 years' time and they are not equal, how does that make you feel? And I think sometimes that helps people to have that conversation. But I interviewed um Lou Beckett recently, who's Rob Beckett's wife, and she's written a book about being the default parent. Um, but she was saying what was really interesting is she had loads of messages from older women saying, I wish I'd had these conversations, I wish this had been a conversation that was around when I because I'm now in my 60s and I've I've missed a whole chunk of my life where I wasn't doing those things, or I was unhappy in my relationship because I could, you know, I was in a very domestic role and I didn't want to be, or and that was really interesting, I think, because I feel like that as well as being a guinea pig generation, my generation is also trying to to do it differently and maybe has the confidence or the resources to do it differently. But it's interesting to know that the alternative is that you might survive and keep going, but you'll look back and think, I didn't do what I really wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yes, yes. And how would you describe your balance as a relationship now? How you balance that mental load between you now?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Um so having so I think having when when Doug takes the initiative, I think that's the bit when you go, right? That is a real understanding and a real partnership. So um we needed to get a card for somebody that had helped us in the house. And I just mentioned, oh, I need to get a card. I didn't say anything else, I hadn't asked him to do it. And he came home a couple of hours later and he was like, Oh, I got that card from the shop because it was from us, it was a thank you to somebody from us. And I was like, Oh my god, we've done it. Because it was, this is our this is us, this is our relationship, this is part of our household. Why would it just sit with me? Um, and I was really grateful, and actually, I think probably what's hard when you're resentful and maybe when the kids are smaller, it's quite hard to be grateful because you feel like I why should I thank you for this? And that's really tricky because actually that's not that becomes unkind can become unkind. And I don't want to be, oh, you know, oh, thank you so much, sir. You've been so helpful. That's not, but but being able to say, great, that and acknowledge that so that that goes into his brain as okay, that was a good thing, that was what we're trying to achieve. I think that's really helpful. But I think I have to be honest that the the majority or more of the mental load does still sit with me. Um, and Doug goes to work and I'm you're often working from home, but like we've got a clash next week where I've got to do a board meeting and he's away, and we have to figure that out. So I think it's an ongoing conversation, and sometimes you slip either way where one of you's being too demanding, or one of you's not being demanding enough, or it feels really unequal. And also, life is there's going to be some weeks when when you have to make more sacrifices than them, and they have to make more sacrifices than you. And I think understanding that that's flexibility is part of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

But I'm hearing having that conversation present in your relationship is really, really what's key is that you keep talking about it and keep coming.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

And sometimes we'll then have a row, and I'll be like, You're being a shit, and you'll think I'm being a shit, and that's that's again that's part of it. But I would say that those con they don't fester in the way that they maybe used to, because it might be that I say something like, Well, I don't think that that was fair, and we both go away, and we can then logically think about it and work it through. I think the other thing to say is, I guess, you know, we've we've been married 18 years, I think it is this year. I think in time, then you have a better understanding of I like I would have been more fiery and gone straight in, and and actually sometimes you need to log the complaint and have the conversation when you're not in the middle of a row and when everyone's calmed down a bit. And I think that that's again possibly experience, but but when you're in it and you're knackered and you've got small kids, that's really hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yes, very, very, very true. From your perspective, let's move on to just think about women and leadership now. And from your perspective, what impact does the mental load have on women's careers, their energy, their confidence?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

It's a massive strain, I think, for a lot of women because they're trying to juggle, it's juggling, it's feeling massively overwhelmed and trying to juggle, you know, and and racing your so the thing that gets neglected often is probably themselves. Um, because you can't neglect the kids, you can't not be there at pickup, you can't. I'm I mean, I have forgotten pat lunches at various points, but that's that's really difficult. And so I think a lot of women will make sacrifices and and not go for that promotion and or not go for that job because you're like, how am I possibly going to manage that? Um, so having a supportive partner, having a uh understanding of what that might require. I mean, going back to work after having a baby, I think a lot of women take that on as well. I'm going back to work, so I need to organize the childcare and sort the nursery and work out all the timings and up and book clubs for the kids and whatever needs to happen. And actually, that that's a whole load of admin and work on top of going back to work. Like it's a so why would it just be you? The reason you're putting your child in childcare is so that the two of you can work to have the life that you're wanting to have. I think it's a reframing as well, where a lot of women go, well, me earning money to pay the nursery fees isn't necessarily worth it. But actually it's like, but well, hang on a minute, you're not paying the fee, like both of you can pay the fees. Do you know so so a woman might assume that it's coming out of her salary, not physically, but it's like, oh, well, my salary only covers the nursery fees. It's like, but he is able to go to work and have a family because you are in the role that you're in. I think that's really tricky one to understand and have because probably in the past a woman sacrificed a load of stuff to be able to look after the family, and it wasn't seen as a man's role.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

What do you think organizations can do better to understand the dynamic?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

I think that there's a lot around met like supporting men to be able to pick up and drop off and and trying to get rid of that kind of culture of that masculine energy, probably where they're at the desk. I mean, as I said, Doug worked in finance, and and probably when we first had children, I'd be like, where are all the where are all the other wives? Because I was like, oh my, like trying to do that stuff and trying to figure out and get Doug to help with pickups and drop-offs and everything else. And it was like, but a lot of them didn't work, or they had nannies. So they didn't have that same strain, I guess. Whereas I think that probably has changed quite a lot. So, where workplaces can support like paternity leave or not having a culture and a view, which is that it that the uh especially in male-dominated industries where they're they're not involved in that pickup and drop-off and the cake sale and all those things. And I think a lot of that comes from leaders. When you work somewhere and you see a boss go, oh, I it's my day, it's my turn to pick up my child today, and I've got to leave at three, that speaks volumes. So when when Doug was doing this school run and he had a young team who were in their 20s and weren't, you know, were nowhere near having kids. I remember having a conversation with him, which was like, I think that he was thinking, you know, they think I'm a bit slack because I get in at nine on these two days and they've all been there. And I was like, but at some point in the future, if they have children, which a percentage of them likely will, they will remember that that was what happened and you came in at nine because you were looking after your kid, and they will understand that. And I think you need leaders and managers to practice that.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yes, so it's absolutely the role modelling that goes on within the workplace, um, and having maybe policies that support that, those positive behaviours, but it's the actual behaviors of doing it that are going to make the difference. And if you know, if someone who's listening to this podcast today is feeling Overwhelmed by the mental load right now. What's one practical thing they could do as a starting point to manage it differently?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I think the the biggest thing is to have conversations with your partner, which is really hard. But I think that there's there's um a book by Eve Rodsky called Fair Play, and there's a book by Bridget Schulte called Overwhelmed, and both of those I think help helped me to understand what was happening before I could then engage Doug and and we could have those conversations. Um both of those, I've had both of them on my podcast actually, so that's the easy way rather than reading the books, but I would I would recommend that. But I think it's also um be letting go of some stuff as well, like you cannot operate at the same level if you aren't working and you're keeping your house in a certain way and you're doing all those stuff, and then you add in a job or running a business, you you can't just add more on top. So something has to give. Um, and hopefully that's where you'll get more support from a partner. But equally, what do you what are you doing that you don't need to be doing? Um, and and taking that pressure off yourself, because actually a lot of that stuff doesn't matter, probably. Um don't sweat the small stuff. I think we often do, don't we? Yeah, yeah. And also, like, okay, so they have baked beans on toast for tea again. That's probably okay. Like, if if it's the sake of if it's for the sake of your sanity that you go, actually, do you know what today it's it's chicken nuggets? That's okay. But but I think we also have that what we learned from watching our potentially watching our mums do it. So we're again back to the guinea pig generation. We had these influences that we saw of how they mothered, and they might not have been un, they might not have been happy, they might have martyred it, like that, you know, that's all to be discussed. But uh seeing that and thinking, oh, and I must do that, I must be around all the pickups and drop-ups, I must do all of the home cooking, I might, and feeling like you need to replicate that, but you are also doing it very differently, potentially, if you're working. I think being able to forgive ourselves a bit of that and give ourselves some grace is pretty key.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Very much so, very much so. Steph, thank you so much. You mentioned your podcast. Um, I know you still do your blog. How can people connect with you?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Uh, so don't buy her flowers on Instagram or Steph underscore don't buy her flowers. Um, yeah, or go to the Don't Buy Her Flowers website and you can find the podcast and blog, but also wonderful gifts. I'm gonna go and have a look now.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

I've got 20 birthday it is this week. Well, there you go. Steph, it has been the most fantastic two conversations that we've had. Thank you so, so much. Really, really grateful. Really lovely to talk to you, Mary. Thank you so much for listening to the She Leads Collective podcast. If this episode resonated with you, follow the show or share it with a friend and leave a quick review below. Or leave us a comment. Change happens through conversation, so let's keep this one going. Listen out for the next episode and join me as we keep lifting the lid on the stories that matter. Take care and keep leading with heart.