From Spain to "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" — Juan Cabrera on Color, Craft, and Creative Grit

Juan Cabrera’s journey from a small town in Spain to some of Hollywood’s biggest blockbusters is a masterclass in creative grit and technical mastery. A self-taught artist with roots in animation and VFX, Juan found his calling in color grading, where storytelling meets science.

Whether contributing to "Star Trek Into Darkness" or "Star Wars: The Force Awakens," Juan’s work brings clarity, emotion, and cohesion to the screen. Today, he leads LightBenders, a post-production studio built on collaboration, innovation, and heart.

Juan opens up about how color shapes narrative, why early collaboration across departments matters, and what it means to build a career by staying curious and committed to the craft. If you’re navigating a creative path or want a behind-the-scenes look at how stories come to life on screen, tune in and be inspired.

🎯 What You’ll Hear:
✔ Juan’s path from early animation work in Spain to Hollywood post-production
✔ The artistic and emotional role of a colorist in storytelling
✔ How LUTs, HDR, and color theory impact what we feel on screen
✔ Behind-the-scenes insights from working on "Startup," "Star Trek," and more
✔ Why early involvement can save time, elevate quality, and spark creative breakthroughs

💬 Ask Us:
What film’s look stayed with you long after the credits? Tag @NRJMediaGroup or DM us.

🌐 Thank you for listening! Stay inspired. Stay bold. Stay Energis’d.  Visit us at www.nrjmediagroup.com to learn more and connect with our growing community.

Transcript

Introduction to Juan Cabrera

Norma 0:04

Energis Podcast is brought to you by NRJ Media Group . Rich, I feel like we just scratched the surface with Juan Cabrera .

Rich 0:22

We certainly did and , seriously , this guy is a tech genius and we barely got through half and I mean half of what we wanted to ask him .

Norma 0:32

And , let's not forget , he's originally from Spain and has built an incredible career working on some of the biggest productions in Hollywood .

Rich 0:40

That's a huge deal , it really is , and his journey from Spain to leading VFX teams on massive films and TV shows is just incredible , and this episode is definitely one for the tech obsessed .

Norma 0:54

He broke down how cutting edge technology is shaping the future of entertainment and , honestly , my mind is still spinning from all those insights . But we like that nerdy stuff Well , especially you .

Rich 1:09

And you know you're not far behind me and you know let's talk about that crazy tech behind some of our favorite films . Juan has worked on some of the biggest projects out there and he gave us a rare peek behind the scenes .

Norma 1:22

Yeah , and we ran out of time .

Rich 1:24

I know , I know , I know .

Norma 1:25

There's still so much more to cover . So , Juan , if you're listening , we need a part two .

Rich 1:31

Yes , we do so . If you're into VFX innovation or just want to know where entertainment tech is headed next , you're in for a treat .

Norma 1:39

Let's dive in .

Rich 1:40

Let's do it so today . We are very honored to have in Juan Cabrera , who is a well-known , legendary colorist for the film industry . Thank you very much for joining us today . My pleasure , it's nice , it's our pleasure having you here . Thank you , thank you .

Juan Cabrera 2:05

Thank you for having me because since I saw your podcast podcast , I mean I was very surprised that that when Norma contacted me and then I I didn't know about the podcast I started seeing the kind of people that you have here and I'm like what am I going to do there ? You have had the most amazing people here listen , we .

Rich 2:18

We've been very blessed with the people we've had on , but all the people we've had on have all had the same thing in common they're talented . But all the people we've had on have all had the same thing in common they're talented , you're talented , and you're a part of the army of people that put films together that actually get it to where it needs to be for an audience to watch it .

Norma 2:34

The village of credits at the end of a film or any TV series . That village , you've been part of that village .

Juan Cabrera 2:45

We're sheltered there .

Norma 2:46

We're sheltered there , or sheltered .

Rich 2:47

There's a lot of villagers .

Juan Cabrera 2:48

Yeah , yeah , it's definitely a team effort and I feel like that's something that some people don't realize when they're getting into filmmaking . Maybe they feel like they're just gonna be doing like one little niche and that's true for some people maybe but I feel like it works much better when you really embrace that brotherhood , sisterhood , that we're all in this little war together . You know what I mean and trying to make it in a way that is not just good for your department but also anything that you can do to help any of the other departments and fight the problems together .

Rich 3:25

I think it goes a long way . It's for the greater good , so that's lovely . What's really interesting is your journey , how you got into this Would you tell us again the story . It's really interesting .

Juan Cabrera 3:38

Yeah , I've been making a few rounds . I'm originally from Spain , I'm from

Early Years and Passion for Animation

Juan Cabrera 3:45

Madrid in Spain and I'm 45 years old . So I started doing computer graphics and all that stuff like very , very early on . Like you know , a combination of things , a combination of I love drawing and I had a very vivid imagination , but I was not good at drawing . I feel like I'm part of that generation where they will still force kids to write with the right hand and I feel like I was more left-handed , so when I was trying to draw or write or whatever I mean , I would look horrible . I always make the joke that I was born with two left hands so I cannot draw to save my life .

Juan Cabrera 4:24

And then a combination of seeing technology and being fascinated by it . My family did not have . It was not a very affluent family at all . I mean we struggled with money through my whole childhood . That was like a constant . So there was never big technology in my house , you know . So I always had like this kind of reverence every time I was able to see a computer and we're talking about computers 30 , 35 years ago which it was like , this whole thing .

Juan Cabrera 4:52

I remember , like I remember , that there was this friend of us that was like a programmer on a bank and he was like , oh my God , he works in NCR . I mean , it's like this kind of thing he writes in what ? In COBOL , oh my God , he programs . I remember learning that at school , this fascination , and that's really what I started doing . I started programming just to make computers do things with a Sinclair Spectrum computer .

Rich 5:15

Remember that , yeah , Sinclair .

Juan Cabrera 5:16

Spectrum computer . That was the first computer I had for a birthday . I will have to thank all the people that bullied me in school so crazy . That made me kind of become more introvert and go home and play with a computer instead of going out and do soccer .

Rich 5:31

Let's go cheer all those bullies out there .

Juan Cabrera 5:33

You go bullies . I hope they're all dead , but I have to thank them because they made me into the man that I am today . Yes , no , but it is true . I mean we were . I didn't live in Madrid city , I mean . I lived like in a village , 20 something miles away from Madrid , so , and it was a little town , it was a village in the base of a mountain , really , and it was very little and there was , it was not , definitely not a technological environment , you know what I mean . And all the kids were playing soccer . It was this weird kid that liked drawing .

Juan Cabrera 6:09

Everybody was calling him fat and he liked stories and science fiction . When I started to work with computers and learned programming , I was able to do things . I started doing graphics very quickly and that kind of got something on me . When I got really into anything that had to do with computer graphics , animation , cg in a time when there was almost none of it and I always had my idea of if I had been in California , in LA , I mean , when Pixar was starting all that stuff , that was like the goal right . I mean that was like they were starting something and and I was , was that really ?

Norma 6:50

what you were aiming for .

Juan Cabrera 6:50

I was looking for , looking towards that , you know . I mean again , my family didn't have any means to send me here , but I was . That was definitely something that it was motivating force that was the thing that I wanted to do , you know then , but the environment was not helping my mom , as a as she is and as supportive as she was throughout my entire career . Of course she wanted me to study something , because they're like what's that thing of animation ? I don't know , you are smart , you have to be an engineer .

Juan Cabrera 7:15

It's like I don't want mama you know it's like I like engineering and I like spaceships and all that stuff , but I didn't see myself there . What ? What I said is like , okay , let me , I will finish high school for sure . But then I'm having all these hobbies and I was starting to make a little bit of money by doing like illustrations for a painter or for an architect or stuff like that , working with 3D studio max . No , before 3D studio max , 3D studio 3 it was like a companion to AutoCAD or something like that . I was like , let me explore this .

Juan Cabrera 7:46

And right at the time there was a school that they started the first course for animation and when I read about it it kind of got me like the cartoon eyes , like something , because they were using Silicon Graphics , they were using Alias Power Animator , they were using the software that I was reading that they were using for productions here . They were the systems that were used for when they were doing Jurassic Park and when you were doing all of that , right . So I was like , okay , let's do this , let's try to do that . And when I started that I was so thrilled to be doing that and that thrill lasted four months because , the course was like nine months and after four months and they , we were learning the software and learning stuff .

Juan Cabrera 8:30

Because I was good there to learn a profession , not to learn how to use the software , because I've learned that through everything that I've done up until that point have been trial and error by myself . You know , just open the software , get somebody to lend me the software or find a way of getting it , play with it until I'm able to do stuff with it right . After four months they were like well , now you work on your short films . And for the next five months I'm like I don't want to do a short film . I mean , I want to learn not just about the software , but about the craft , about what involves to make this , to make any , what is around animation , what is around computer graphics , what is around storytelling .

Juan Cabrera 9:11

And that was a very , very , very not a great moment . I was not the only one that was feeling that way . Three other people were feeling a similar way . So we decided to kind of get together and maybe , instead of doing doing it here , maybe we can get together , get some money together , buy one of these systems and start learning by doing . Let's start doing stuff .

Juan Cabrera 9:31

And that's what we did . We got together , we got a little tiny office . We pulled a bunch of money together to get one of these machines that cost like a half of a house really expensive back in the day . We started doing stuff and that led to us partnering with an animation studio that were doing traditional animation and with script writers . We were involved in doing a hybrid CG animation pilot when nobody was doing it in Spain even less , but even worldwide . It was not something that was done a lot and learned through all that process . All of a sudden , I had access to actual animators that were animating in paper and , with the concept of animation , I discovered the book of the illusion of life . They had it over there and that's the first time that I was reading the illusion of life and loving every moment of it , you know .

Norma 10:19

But Juan , who is we ? We said we did . Did you have like a team ?

Juan Cabrera 10:23

Yeah , we said we did . Did you have like a team ? Yeah , I mean like it was me and these three partners that were like the CG side , and then the animators were like 12 people , something like that , oh wow . Yeah , it was like two script writers , 12 animators and four of us that were doing the CG side , so we were a crew , yeah that was a crew , okay .

Juan Cabrera 10:42

I was the youngest of them all . I was 17 at the time when I opened my first company . I was 17 . Wow , and I did it . Not because

Building a Career from Spain to England

Juan Cabrera 10:52

I had money , because I didn't , not because I was brave , because I wasn't , it was because it was the only option that I saw possible .

Norma 10:58

You know , it was like Well and doing what you loved right and what you wanted to stay in , because you could have gone back to do something else , or done something else , but you really wanted to figure this out .

Juan Cabrera 11:07

I really wanted to give this a proper shot . And that worked until things started to happen between the four of us where it felt like we were just not aligned . One of them just started doing CG because he was bored . Another one was really there to just to get money for his family and stuff like that , but he was more interested in the graphical design side of it . And the other guy was just a stoner that he was just there because he was Fits right in down here .

Norma 11:34

He had a nice cave that he could stow down to .

Juan Cabrera 11:36

He was a kid from a . He was the typical stoner trash fund kid . You know , like he was like yeah , I'm here because he's cool you know and you guys are cool his parents had money and they were involved in art .

Juan Cabrera 11:47

So this was his way of trying to do something and stuff . And I was like laser focused on I freaking want to do toy story . You know what I mean ? I I want to work in star wars . I want to do all of that . This is not so . At 21 I decided like it was enough and it was not as much of momentum that we had at the beginning . It was not really going as fast as I wanted to . So at that point , that's when I went to England , I was like , well , let's try it by myself . I was in England for a little bit .

Juan Cabrera 12:15

And why England ? Because to me it was the closest thing to the United .

Norma 12:18

States ? Excuse me , what's wrong with England ? No , no , it's just a legitimate question . I just it's a legitimate question .

Juan Cabrera 12:22

It was English , first of all , which I was proficient on and I was able to .

Rich 12:27

Well , I thought it was proficient until I went there and I had to talk with people from Newcastle , Of all the places in Newcastle .

Juan Cabrera 12:33

I thought I knew how to speak English . Turned out , I do , but they don't .

Rich 12:38

You cannot understand their language , no , their dialects .

Juan Cabrera 12:40

I went to Scotland after being in Newcastle and I was able to understand .

Norma 12:44

Scottish like if they were speaking Spanish to me . Oh no , and Newcastle is rough . I'm going to have to look this up later .

Juan Cabrera 12:50

It's rough and it's cold . But that was the one option because I had a friend who had . Basically , he was a video game programmer and they gave him a house to be there on a new job and he was like I'm going to be by myself one day alone .

Rich 13:02

They were on a new job , Got it and he was like I'm going to be by myself when I get along .

Juan Cabrera 13:04

Do you have a place to stay ? And we're like sure I need a break . Also , it was like when you were seeing productions yes , you were seeing some . There was a lot of animation happening , for example , in France and other places , but they didn't really speak French .

Norma 13:20

Big animation . Okay , France has huge animation and they have very artistic animation For me it was a language barrier .

Juan Cabrera 13:25

Okay , so it's okay , Because I think they do amazing things over there .

Juan Cabrera 13:29

They do , and I'm a big fan of a lot of artists over there . It just felt like , out of all the options , felt like it could be the one that worked out , and it was good because it got me to speak English , it got me to like be completely on my own in a different country . Deal with all of that , Ended up working in sort of the industry . I mean , it was not exactly animation , which is what I wanted to do , but it was this guy who was doing a comic book . It was a weekly comic book Striker . I don't know if you know .

Rich 13:53

Striker no .

Juan Cabrera 13:54

It was very big in the Sun newspaper .

Rich 13:57

Oh , actually , no , I do know it . How old were you at this time ?

Juan Cabrera 14:00

21 , I moved to England two years later , 23 . Okay , so young something like 23 .

Norma 14:05

Yeah , and you were already .

Juan Cabrera 14:06

I mean anyway but you started young , but I felt like I was not going fast enough All this time .

Norma 14:13

So you had really big dreams and you had big aspirations , okay .

Juan Cabrera 14:17

All of this time I was feeling like I was constantly being derailed because I was not going fast . I was not at the core of where I wanted to be .

Juan Cabrera 14:24

Everything felt like I had to go to the another connect station you know what I mean everything felt like it was like not quite what I wanted to go , but maybe this gets me closer . It felt like that quite a bit on that time . And then , after England , after working with this comic , which it was close to animation , because it was like , instead of doing the animation , with all the in-betweens and all the everything it was just making on the post . You know what I mean . So it was close , but eventually I became stagnant . I felt the stagnance this time . What I did is I moved back to Spain . I was freelancing for a little bit and I was like , well , maybe when I was with partners it didn't work because we all had like different kind of motivations aimings etc .

Juan Cabrera 15:07

Maybe if I do it by myself , maybe it will work . Plus , I also have more experience , I can partner with some vendors , etc . So that's what I did I decided to go on my own and started working . The funny thing is that I was still not doing color grading . I was still focused on animation .

Norma 15:27

You stayed in animation because you thought that was it .

Juan Cabrera 15:30

I stayed in animation because I thought that's where I wanted to be , but there was something that another one of your interviewers said . It was called Dawn , which is something like the… Dawn Hunt .

Juan Cabrera 15:40

Dawn Hunt . Yes , it was the first podcast that I listened from your show and he said something that I've been saying all this time and I always felt bad for saying it , but that's exactly how I felt , and when I heard him saying it , I felt so validated . It was so real , because my thing with animation was that I realized that my brain was working better when working with multiple things at the same time , and I was not that great at just being hyper-focused on just one thing for hours on end .

Norma 16:12

It was too linear for you really .

Juan Cabrera 16:14

And he said the same thing and I felt like if I wanted to in animation , if I wanted to be where I wanted to be , I had to devote my life to animation . And at that point there were a lot of other things that were catching my interest and I really liked the visual effects side and the spaceship side and the Star Wars side . So eventually I was like you know what , maybe I should steer the course and go that way . And that's where I was .

Juan Cabrera 16:37

When I came back to Spain and opened my studio , by accident , when I was actually supervising VFX for a project , we were having lunch and there was this guy who was the audio guy and they told me that they were doing a short film and they didn't have a colorist for the short film . The production company was giving them the room which is the big , expensive part , with all the gear Back in the day , it was crazy expensive , but they didn't have colorists to finish the room and I was like I can color it . They're like , back in the day , it was crazy expensive , but they didn't have colorist to finish the room and I was like I can color it . He's like are you a colorist ? I'm like , yeah , I mean I'm not , but I've been dealing with picture .

Juan Cabrera 17:12

All my life , you know , I've been dealing with picture , image composition , vfx . You have to do integration , you have to be able to combine things in a way that makes sense . So I understand color , I understand how it works . I have not used that tool specifically , but I've been learning tools all my life . It's just another tool . So we're like OK , we'll give you a . He was in the South , we were in Madrid , he was in Malaga , where Antonio Banderas is from .

Rich 17:36

Funny , you sound like him .

Juan Cabrera 17:36

Thank you , you're welcome and he was like we'll put you a plane . Nobody flies in a plane in Spain . I mean , that's something that you Americans do In Europe , you take a train , or you drive , or you get a bus .

Rich 17:48

Actually , your roads in Spain are amazing . I once drove , changed the subject . I drove to Spain , yeah , and I hit the motorway . I came over the Pyrenees and I hit the motorway on a Sunday . It's like I'd rented it for myself . There was no one on the road because it's a religious day .

Juan Cabrera 18:02

We have really good roads .

Rich 18:04

It was amazing .

Juan Cabrera 18:05

It's very easy to go everywhere . I mean he wanted to be nice and stuff . He's like no , no , don't worry , I have a friend here , I'll drive with a friend . It's totally fine . It was a five hour drive . The reason why I went with a friend is because when my friend was driving , I was reading the manual . You , were learning , I was learning the software in the drive down .

Rich 18:23

So this is now fake it till you . Make it 101 .

Norma 18:25

Oh my God , yes , say yes and then figure it out .

Juan Cabrera 18:29

I had confidence that I was able to do it . It was just I need to know what specific things have this tool and what specific settings it has .

Norma 18:37

So your brain was already wired to learn on the fly

Becoming a Colorist by Chance

Norma 18:40

because you could compartmentalize and just you know , like a computer figure it out .

Juan Cabrera 18:45

Let me put it this way Imagine you like . You're a cook Yep , you enjoy cooking in your home . You have learned to bake Yep , you have learned to roast , you have learned to do all kinds of things .

Norma 18:56

And then somebody wants to hire you to do sushi yes , or maybe sushi is not the right word , but maybe they want to hire you to do some specific salads or some specific roast you have been cooking for eight years of your life . So you're a chef , I'm a chef already . You're a chef , you're just not specialized in that cuisine . Got it Okay ? You know what I ?

Juan Cabrera 19:12

mean . So in my case , I've been dealing with images , I've been dealing with logarithmic images , linear images file formats channels it . Everything Okay . I just don't know what are the specific tools that there is .

Norma 19:23

I could see you at the passenger seat just flipping pages while your friend is driving this thing .

Juan Cabrera 19:28

I mean it was like reading the whole thing Amazing . And I read the whole thing in the five hours that we were driving down and I sat and color graded the short film . I sat in the room and I did the whole short film in two days .

Norma 19:40

Did you find any difficulty in doing it ? No , okay , so you read the manual . It felt very natural .

Juan Cabrera 19:44

In fact , it felt so natural that I was like hang on a second , I'm really liking this .

Juan Cabrera 19:50

People get paid how much for this ? Good . It felt good because it also felt like a combination of many things , like a combination of a little bit of visual effects being a bigger part of the puzzle , because when you're doing visual effects or when you're doing animation , what they say is like you're doing the tooth of the dinosaur . You know what I mean . You're not the guy doing the whole thing . It's very difficult , even as a VFX supervisor , you have a lot of people , but when you're the colorist , you are the guy , yep , and you get not just being the guy , but also you get to talk with the director , with the producer , with the DP , you get a lot more exposure to people .

Juan Cabrera 20:28

It's not so much for me about exposure . It's about the fact that what I do matters more . You know , like there's a direct connection . There's a direct connection and it's really amazing to be able to meet all of these people and to be able to interact with them in this kind of environment and to be part of their vision and to be part of their dream and to be part of what they want to do . One thing that always excited me so much about visual effects is the concept of we have to do something that cannot be done , how do we do it , and that tickled my brain like crazy , and I love that .

Juan Cabrera 21:01

With color grading , it's more about we have to do something that cannot be done . How do we do it ? And that tickled my brain like crazy , and I loved that . With color grading , it's more about we have this concept , we want to do this flower . How do we make it the best that it can be and then push it to the world so it can stay as bright as possible or as accurate to the original idea as possible ? So it tickled a similar part of my brain so I started doing it .

Juan Cabrera 21:23

I started freelancing for a little bit and with my , and that's when I Decided that well , maybe we're steering the thing towards color . So then I'm gonna need the big hard work , the big things and stuff like that we go back to . I come from a freaking Humble family and I don't have the means . How do I do it ? And at that time I started getting into contact . Somebody introduced me to this guy that was living in Kodak when Kodak was already going down , and he was like well , I'm getting into digital color . I was thinking about getting a machine . Maybe we can get together , because I've been working with all the studios , I've been working with all the stuff , and it felt like a match made in heaven , because it was like , okay , this guy is gonna bring all the people he already has the contacts we don't have to be knocking on cold doors .

Juan Cabrera 22:07

It feels like business is coming . Let's do it . So we ordered a machine . The machine the system that I use is called Mistika . It's actually a Spanish development . I've been in contact with the developer since they started and we have a fantastic relationship . One thing that I love about it is the fact that I can literally talk with the development team and ask them for features or like . There's a level of closeness with them that I cannot have with any other software . Plus , it has some features that are really really , really different and really beneficial from us , from other softwares , and I have to thank him a lot because he helped me through this process . He put together the machine . He was the same guy who sold me my first silicon graphics .

Juan Cabrera 22:49

At the point they were always reselling hardware , but they turned into developers and selling also the hardware . But that's , our relationship goes back

What Does a Colorist Actually Do?

Juan Cabrera 22:56

since I was 17 years old .

Norma 22:58

But , juan , can you even take us a step back , because I don't think a lot of people know what a colorist actually does and how their role affects the output of the film .

Juan Cabrera 23:07

Okay , what we do is we try to make things looking seamless , basically , and then sometimes you give it a style , you give it things . You have to think that cameras don't see the world the same way that we do . Cameras see things in a more linear way . They just capture the light . But that doesn't necessarily have to be appealing . Our eyes work differently . But also it's the fact that when you're shooting a movie , as you guys know , it takes days , weeks , months to shoot something .

Juan Cabrera 23:37

Sometimes you have to shoot a scene in a place and then you have to wait for somebody to grow a beard and shoot another part or whatever you know . Or just by logistics , you have to do pickups or whatever the thing is . There are many , many , many things that happen when you're producing a film that could impact the fact that light is not gonna look consistent , the sun is gonna move , things are gonna happen , you know . So the first job is always let's make this as seamless as possible , so it feels like it's all part of the same thing . The main aiming is that try to avoid color or a change in light or a change in sun or a change in whatever to take you out of the fantasy to take you out of the story .

Juan Cabrera 24:18

And then you have the artistic side , of course fantasy to take you out of the story , out of the story okay . And then you have the artistic side , of course . I mean you can do the same way that anybody can use Photoshop to fix a photo so it looks okay , or to try to give it something , to make it look really punchy and do some cool color with it . It's in a similar way that you can do it on a whole TV show , feature film or whatever you work . You don't work frame by frame painting . You know what I mean . I mean you work usually shot by shot . You can also do full sequences , but usually you work shot by shot , making sure the shots are consistent . You can use a number of tools .

Juan Cabrera 24:53

The thing with colorists is that you will find colorists that come from very different backgrounds . You have colorists that come from a more artistic background and maybe they're not so good on technology or not so versed , and they're going more for a more plastic approach . And then they have an assistant that does the technical thing or making masks or whatever . You have people that come from the editorial world , because at the end of the day , we're working with a timeline , we're working with shots , we're working with a number of things , and you have a few that come from more a technical VFX background , like me .

Juan Cabrera 25:23

Depending on the color , you will approach it differently , but the aiming at the end is the same . You want to make it seamless , you want to make it as beautiful it can be and you want to tackle as many issues that they might have had with this , with the shoot , as possible , like sometimes , maybe once they see the shot , they feel like the wall in the back is a bit distracting or it's a bit too bright , so they want to bring it down a little bit . Or they shot it and the face of the actor is a little shadowy . You want to bring the face up a little bit , things like that .

Norma 25:52

The simplistic thing is it's based on color theory as well . Right , where certain colors represent different moods and genres . Right , certain colors represent different moods and genres . Right . So when the story is being developed , there is that sense of the scene that's being introduced . It's preparing you , your senses , to take on what the director wants .

Juan Cabrera 26:12

But first you have to fix it . Yes , yes , that's the thing when you talk about color grading , everybody thinks about color theory and how the colors make you feel and this and that yeah but I cannot see the face .

Norma 26:25

Yes .

Juan Cabrera 26:25

I cannot . You know what I mean . So the first thing is making it watchable . Make it watchable , making it that it works . After that you want to . That's the part when you artistically speak with the director , with the DP , with everybody involved , and then it , and then it's like no , no , and because it's very rare that you , as a colorist , who is going to introduce those concepts . Usually those concepts have been discussed since the script . I mean , I've had directors that have brought me reference references from actual , you know , oil , pictures you know taken from a museum and stuff like that . Like the feel of the scene has to be something similar to this or stuff like that . Every creative person works in a different way and I think part of your job as a colorist is try to create that common artistic language and common actual language , because when someone says contrast , sometimes it does not feel the same as when somebody else says contrast .

Juan Cabrera 27:19

And then try to achieve that vision . That's when , of course , you can give creative input . I mean , like , maybe they have the idea of starting with this warmer color and we end up cold and we do this and we do that . Usually they come with that idea and you kind of guide them through that whole process . You know , like , but I saw the other day a post I don't know if it was on Instagram or TikTok or something like somebody saying like no , because when you have a composition of color , then you have the 70-20-10 rule or the 60-30-10 rule , because you have 60 and I have to put it like dude no colorist in the planet works like that .

Norma 27:52

But it was one of these guys saying like that's how colorists do it and they're like no , we don't , no , we don't , that's how set design do it probably , probably . I mean when they're framing the shot Right because it's fixed .

Juan Cabrera 28:01

it's fixed right , you know I mean they already have that concept when they're building it and when you have set design , you have a lot of artists involved on making a movie . We come at the end of the process . But me personally I mean , and some other curators I know they do too .

Rich 28:24

I mean Because I think it's helpful for everybody and we can get into all of this when you're watching let's say I'm in an audience , I'm watching a film . To use color . How the film looks is based on the story of the film . So sometimes you'll watch a film for argument's sake , like a film that's based in the desert , or it's based in somewhere that's hot , like in the desert , and it looks quite washed out . The picture looks quite , there's color in it , but there's a low level , it's not rich color , whereas you watch something like , I don't know , bad Boys 2 , and it's such a it's taken in Miami . There's rich colors in there and it makes a big difference . Is that part of what you do ?

Juan Cabrera 28:54

Yes , that's exactly what I do , because that both of those pictures will have been done the opposite way .

Juan Cabrera 29:01

You can have a very desaturated image that can be made to look very saturated , very rich , and the opposite At the same time . If you're in an environment like you're in a desert , and you're in the desert in the middle of a dust storm , when you don't see the sky , you might be in a desert and you might not have color to pull from , because of course I have to pull from what's on the picture . You can introduce some colors yourself , but that usually does not work very well unless you're doing it a very specific way . So you need some base to be able to work . But if you're , for example , in the desert and you have a blue sky and then you have a little tree over there that you want to get to , then you can just blast that desert , be like orange , fantastic color , with the blue and this green tree . I mean you can do that , or that's a point where you can have both options . What direction ? What does the movie need ? What does your movie ?

Rich 29:54

Feel like what do you want to ? So another question so okay , so that's a natural scene . But when you throw in , say , special effects , so that you take a marvel film , for argument's sake , that might be filmed outside , but the majority of the picture is CG , does it make it more complicated trying to take a computer-generated image and matching it with real life ?

Juan Cabrera 30:16

A big visual effects movie . It has a lot of very talented artists working on it and usually when you get the shots , they have already been balanced .

Juan Cabrera 30:23

In fact , most of them they also have colorist working internally to make sure everything is balanced correctly and it feels like what it's supposed to feel .

Juan Cabrera 30:31

So most of the time , when you just put the show light on it and you just look at it and it looks pretty much in the spot and you barely have to do anything to it . The problem is usually when you're working with productions that are not Marvel , that are not Star Wars , that are smaller than they have other VFX , and maybe they shoot a green screen , however they cool , and then when they integrate it it doesn't match . That's one of those situations where , because of my VFX background , I like to work with the VFX house and say like no , maybe instead of just doing the green screen , let me see , maybe give me layers , or maybe let me do a pre-passage color before you do the green screen so we can integrate it a bit better , etc . Etc . So there are ways of helping that , but you have to have that into account because , of course , if you shoot something in a blue screen and you have lit it like it's midday and then the background is foggy , it's never going to look right .

Norma 31:26

That does not depend on your integration , it's just the light does not matter . And I think that's where a lot of people don't understand that when they see a movie and scenes pull together , they think that's what the camera captured . It's not .

Norma 31:35

It's never , it's never what the camera captured and your job is to ensure , like whatever mood , all the things , the graininess , whatever is supposed to evoke that . Then you do your magic right

The Science of Image and Color

Norma 31:46

, and technical , technical magic as well , to get it across that the mood , that the scene is believable and is pulling you into that mood .

Rich 31:54

So when you were at Paramount or Lucasfilm , were you involved in it ? Did you get involved ?

Norma 31:59

No , no , I would always . No , I couldn't even speak the technical language I wish . But I would , you know , occasionally go . I'm just here to watch and you know they would let me . I would always ask if I could watch because it fascinated me the level of detail that they go in and how they pull everything apart . I don't think as moviegoers they't realize the the work it takes to steven . Just do a scene , so there's a lot of work leading on to that .

Rich 32:27

To your right there's a little board .

Norma 32:31

It's really small , really really small whiteboard would you ?

Rich 32:34

draw out for us . Yeah , like in very simple terms , like like things that have to do with color .

Norma 32:41

Yes , yeah .

Juan Cabrera 32:42

I mean , I can show , for example , one thing that people don't , or at least get confused with often , is when they're dealing with a lot of people are using terms like logarithmic image or LUT or things like that , and people know that when you're looking at a log image , it looks more desaturated , it looks softer , but they don't know why are we working like that . And people know that when you're looking at a log image , it looks more desaturated , it looks softer , but they don't know why are we working like that . Sure , I guess that's the question and what I was trying . As you can see , if the shadow is already pre-drawn , but what I was drawing before is like , if you have a chart like that , for example , and this is X and Y axis yep , this is zero and this is amount of actual light and this is the light that you're encoding on the file .

Juan Cabrera 33:23

Like this will be black . This will be pure white . This will be black , pure white . So a linear camera or something that just sees image plainly , will go like this it will be a straight line . Imagine that this is a straight 45 degree angle line .

Rich 33:39

You mean that's not correct .

Juan Cabrera 33:40

You mean that's not correct . You mean that's not correct , it's not completely accurate no .

Juan Cabrera 33:45

No , in an angle like . But my point is that white encoded it's white in real life . So these values are a correlation between these values . So when you're seeing a logarithmic image , that's something that Kodak invented when they were developing a format called Cineon to be able to store digitally film . And the thing is , the eyes are that's a physical thing . I mean they're much more sensitive to changes in low light , in shadows , that they are to highlights , meaning that it would be nice if we could use more of that data because at the end of the day , the data is finite . You know what I mean . There's only so much data . On an 8-bit image , for example I'm going to try to do an 8 , you have 256 possible values of every channel . 256 because it's 2 to the power of 8 . Now Cineon was 10-bit , meaning that you have times 2 , times 2 . So 1,024 . What does that mean ? If you don't have that many values , you can have what's called banding , meaning when you expand the image , it's like you see the steps . It's not a smooth gradient .

Norma 34:51

And when you see that a lot of times when you're streaming films as well streaming because the bits have to go through that little skin , because you have to reduce it a lot of that , it's compressed .

Juan Cabrera 35:01

It's compressed , but it's compressed in ways to save a lot of bandwidth and they have to take a lot of shortcuts . In this case we're talking about acquisition . So what Kodak did was a curve that looks a little bit like that , maybe not so down , but the point of this is that you can encode up to like around a third of it . I mean you can encode up to like around a third of it . I mean you can encode most of the shadow information . You see like we have only made it like maybe 10% , but we already used like a third of our whole data budget .

Juan Cabrera 35:31

And then less data . For this I mean , we're up to past half , and then for the highlights we're just this little part , so that reflects better what the eye , what the human eye , can see . So when you're looking at an image that looks washed out , that's usually what we work from , because we want to have as much latitude and as much information as possible to start our work . Imagine if we had very little information . Then things will start breaking apart very quickly Now . Now with HDR Dolby , for example have , oh yeah , high dynamic range .

Juan Cabrera 36:05

With Cineon we tackle the problem of lack of information on the shadows . With HDR , now we're tackling the problem of lack of information on the highlights . You know , like up until now a lot of movies when they had like a window it would do a blown out window you don't see what's outside either . You see the interior or the exterior , not both . Now with HDR you can see both . So it's like first we dealt with the okay , let's make something that looks appealing , that sees similar to the way humans see . But now with HDR it's the way humans see in real life . You know like , because I mean your eyes adapt , you can go outside and you see outside , or you can see outside of a window . So that curve , the new curve , is called PQ or perceptual quantifier , something like that . It's similar to the Cineon curve , it's a little bit different . It goes more steep at the end and it can encode all of those values beyond just taking care of the shadows , but also all the different highlights .

Rich 37:00

So if you think about . . let's say, take a streaming service that will take file and compress it and you're watching it in HDR , so you're watching on an HDR TV , so is that then reconverting what it's been , what's lost , back onto the screen ?

Juan Cabrera 37:17

Not exactly . We're talking about different types of compressions . It's not the same talking about latitude and compression . Latitude is how many values do you have to store information ? That's the bits . It's 8 bits , 10 bits , 12 bits , 16 bits . Similar to audio Compression is what artifact , what technology that's H.264 , mpeg-4 , all that stuff are you using to get rid of data as much as possible so you can make the file smaller ? So compression doesn't necessarily affect the latitude . You can have all those values all the way through . The problem is that what you're going to lose is the fine details , the grain , the subtleties that's going to be taken out by the compression to save bandwidth . But then , if you're using a compressor that is 8-bit for an HDR channel , that's when you're going to lose bandwidth . It's not because of the compression , it's because of the latitude you lost possible values .

Rich 38:14

So is this might sound like a stupid question , but do movies filmed in HDR ? Is it a ? Do they film it that way , or is it just it's ?

Juan Cabrera 38:26

not a stupid question , it's a loaded question .

Norma 38:28

Yes , it's a controversial question .

Juan Cabrera 38:30

It's not , because the thing is the way you're shooting movies has not changed .

Rich 38:36

Yeah .

Juan Cabrera 38:37

They're not shooting HDR . When you're shooting movies , you always try to contain all the information within there so you can have options . The thing about HDR is not about the acquisition , it's about the delivery . It's about standardizing your televisions and your theaters and all that stuff , so they can now show those values that usually you will just compress and hide .

Juan Cabrera 39:00

But you usually always want your picture to be not cut on the shadows and not cut on the highlights . You want to have as much as possible . That's where the logarithmic curves come to help . Most of the cameras like RED , Sony , Alexa , all of those try to compress those 14 , 15 , whatever number of stops they claim to have , into that file , so you , as a colorist , have access to all of that information . If you use it or not , that depends on the project , you the deliverables , the deliverables , etc .

Juan Cabrera 39:27

Norma: That's the artistic obviously viewpoint as well ,

Juan Cabrera 39:30

Juan Cabrera: because that's the thing I mean , like if you were trying to put all of those values and show all of those values in a regular SDR , in a regular image , the images will not feel as bright .

Juan Cabrera 39:42

It will feel like it's losing a little bit of information . It will look like some of the old HDR images you know , when people were doing multi-exposure yes , doing like a like combining them all , and then it looks cool , but it looks weird , it does not look natural . What HDR does is that it works better . It works more like our eyes .

Norma 39:58

Right , you know where they can adapt and I think that's it , and I think for us , for the average person that's watching a film or any content , when things don't look right , they're not right right because our , our eyes , just naturally try to adjust , but our eyes already knows and this is subconsciously like that looks off , and if that looks off , it takes you away from the story and you're actually missing right data and bits to be drawn in and you don't want to be off , you want to be pulled in and that's your job , right , you have to be pulled into the shots , into the scenes , so so they are immersed 100% in the story .

Rich 40:32

Do you think that the advent of HD and 4K has made your job easier ?

Juan Cabrera 40:41

No , no , it's one more deliverable . I mean it's not for me . I mean the whole thing with 2K , 4K and stuff . At the end of the day , it's more pixel . Most of the cameras were able to shoot in high resolution anyway , but it just turns into now you need more storage , Now you need another deliverable . You do the SDR deliverable , you do the HDR , the water , the specs , et cetera , et cetera .

Juan Cabrera 41:01

It doesn't really make my job easier . I just have something else that that I have to output . But that's the way it goes with anything . It's like when you're doing a mix and now you have to do a 5.1 mix and Atmos mix . Does Atmos make your job easier ? Usually , not . Usually it complicates it a little bit because now you have more options , and I think it's a little bit the same with HDR . Now I have to do the regular color pass that I usually do , and then I have to do the HDR pass ?

Juan Cabrera 41:26

Which , in my case , for example , I usually like to do the regular pass first and then the HDR , which is the opposite of what Dolby recommend you to do . It has worked way better for me on so many shows . We started doing HDR in 2018 , very , very early and at the end I mean they have kind of admitted that . Yeah , actually that kind of makes sense .

Norma 41:45

And now that you're , because now you're doing your own right . So you first started off by saying you were working with others , then you moved over here , so now you have your own proper production company . And what's the name of your company ? Lightbenders . Where did Lightbenders come from ?

Juan Cabrera 41:58

Where did that LightBenders come from ? Well , the company that I had in Spain . It was called Film Breakers .

Juan Cabrera 42:05

Oh , it kind of is like an upgrade of that . Okay , it's like an upgrade of that . But then on the story that I was telling before , when I was about to get partnered with this Kodak guy and stuff that ended up going to hell and the guy told me the day that they were installing the machine he told me that he was bankrupt and it was this whole ordeal so fast forward , ended up not partnering with him just by myself . We were very successful in Spain , but I still felt like I was still looking at Los Angeles and California and stuff and when 3d movies started , when the big boom of 3d movies started , Mystica , which is over there I used , was one of the key software's that was doing 3d in . It was like two software's that were at the top of the world at that point and one of them was Mystica . So that gave me the possibility of coming here to the US and working with BatRobot , working with Paramount and working with huge players like finally finally working .

Rich 42:55

Star Wars .

Norma 42:55

Finally you're doing your toy stories Finally working Star Wars , your toy stories Finally working Star Trek .

Juan Cabrera 43:01

To me it was absolutely… .

Working on Major Productions

Juan Cabrera 43:03

Your dream came true then , at that point , because you were working toward it early on in early on in your career to me , it was absolutely incredible and that gave me a very unique perspective on being able to work on these massive projects , but from the studio side , right , you know . Because at first you think , okay , now I'm coming to the us , I'm going to do all of these movies , then I'm going to go to work on one of these big facilities and that's going to be it . You know what I mean . But working from the studio side allowed me to see that working with these facilities is not always what you feel it is , and that there were a lot of things , for example , about Robot , we built a team internally that we were doing a lot of the post-production side of the movie and that was amazing .

Juan Cabrera 43:44

And the level of communication between us , the level of integration between effects and audio and editorial and color , and everything happening at the same time and all moving like one . That , to me , was the last part of the blueprint that I was meeting . I said , like that's the way I want it to work and showing me that it can be done . And also working with JJ . He was absolutely fantastic and I loved every minute of it , even though it was super , super demanding Abrams he's just saying his name , so people are listeners know he's super he's .

Juan Cabrera 44:21

I don't know how old he is now , but he's still 14 years old it's like a kid having fun , but that shows in his films .

Juan Cabrera 44:29

He's so knowledgeable and such passionate and such a fan of the things that he makes and I think it's a real pleasure to work with him and it was fantastic to have that experience After Star Wars Force Awakens . That's when I was like , okay , so what am I going to do with my life now ? I mean , I'm out of Bad Robot right now because we were done with the movie and there were like plans to let's see what happens . The original plan was only to do that one and that's when I decided to open my studio , to open Lightbenders , because I was like I don't really see myself going into one of the big facilities because I feel like I'm going to be constrained .

Juan Cabrera 45:03

I feel like I saw a lot of inefficiency on those big places . I saw a lot of things not done the way we were doing things , a lot of roadblocks on those places . I feel like in the old days , when color and image had to do with labs and stuff , everybody was of course . I mean it was big , nobody could do that at their house , so you were at the mercy of the labs and that's fine . That worked out . But when the digital thing happened , I feel like some of these labs wanted to keep that control . So they started like scaring people , like oh , nobody knows how to do digital . We have to keep this .

Juan Cabrera 45:38

Now , times are different . Now the , the software is available , the machines are available , monitoring is available . It's not the , the hardware is not the limitation anymore . And there are many , many studios , many medium-sized studios . I don't say , go to work with a guy who's grading out of a TV and coloring on his bedroom but there are a lot of middle studios that are doing really , really amazing jobs , really amazing work , and I think it was a very good moment . I was like let's open my own place and let's try to do . Basically , the main idea of Light Vendors is let's do what we were doing at Bad Robot , but as a service for other people For others so a couple of questions for you as time is moving on .

Norma 46:22

Yeah , sorry , no no , no , so we're enjoying it . We need to have you back . That's what that means .

Juan Cabrera 46:27

I still have to talk about all my childhood .

Norma 46:29

I know and all that stuff , we've got a couch .

Rich 46:31

He's a lot down for that one .

Norma 46:32

My whole immigration process . Yes , that was horrible . That comes through your work , though , that's a little detail that comes through your work .

Juan Cabrera 46:45

What are you most proud of that you did how we did it .

Norma 46:48

Oh , I'm glad you say that I enjoyed it .

Juan Cabrera 46:50

I really loved that movie and I was not the final colorist on that movie because that movie , the final color went to Company 3 . But I was the one who put it together . I was the DA supervisor . I was the one that was doing all the internal color reviews , all the internal temp coloring and all that stuff , Bad Robot , plus the stereo , plus the 3D , plus supervising all the deliverables . That was the first movie where I did what I felt .

Norma 47:17

I was capable of doing when I was growing up , so you gave it your all .

Juan Cabrera 47:19

I mean , I gave it my all 100 hours a week for months and 120 hours a week the last couple of weeks .

Norma 47:26

Oh , you didn't sleep .

Juan Cabrera 47:28

Barely . It was brutal , but as brutal as it was . I have it on a very special part of my heart . And then as something that I have done outside of a robot and with my company . I'm very proud of all the work that I have done with a director called Ben Kitai , because we have done like eight projects together . We did a TV show called Startup .

Juan Cabrera 47:47

Everything that I've done with him has always been such an amazing experience of like starting because he likes to work with me the way I am . As in , we start very early in the process . It's not like last minute call , I call you , no , no , we start working very early in the process . Sometimes I've been on set with him . It's the way I really like to work and I'm very proud of the work that we did on those TV shows . We were one of the first shows to be very early delivering 4k . We were very early delivering HDR , when there was not even a standard , dolby Vision was not still a thing and there were a lot of challenges with those things and they came out really well .

Norma 48:23

You know , you just raised a really good point and I heard this theme early

Founding LightBenders Studio

Norma 48:27

on when you were saying well , I want to get involved . I think oftentimes when teams , when creative teams are working , especially in bigger organizations , no , no , no , you don't get , you don't get a preview of it . You actually get it and here it is and then once you're done , you know , bring it back to us . But getting involved early on , you start already road mapping things . You can actually even give advice and start directing things Because , look , at the end of the day , if you sign up for the vision , which is everyone's here to work on this TV series or film and make it the best it can be , you can give your creative input , can actually help and alleviate problems and steps that you would have to take and clean up .

Norma 49:07

You're actually doing both at the same time and so when you incubate that level of thinking , those people like to work with people that think that same way , because you're actually problem solving as you're moving forward , 100% problem solving , and not just for yourself , for some of the other departments Exactly .

Juan Cabrera 49:27

I cannot tell you how many times we have been , maybe on a review or something , and then see a shot that is maybe a boom mic or have to happen or be in an editorial review and something is a split screen or something like that , and they're like , oh , we have to send this to VFX and stuff and I will be like , no , no , no , we can take care of that , but you do color Exactly .

Rich 49:43

It doesn't matter , I mean that's easy .

Juan Cabrera 49:45

I know how to do it . It's super quick . You don't have to send that to VFX , don't worry about that . I've had clients that have been doing logo changes Like they were not sure on where to place the logo of their show within the shot and they were like , well , we'll do it in the color grading session , but can we do that ? Sure , why not ? The problem is that on some of the other big places that have more of a factory approach , they don't have that flexibility and you have an edit change . You have to wait until one of the online department is available .

Juan Cabrera 50:19

I've done edit changes within the color session , not a problem , it's totally fine , it's totally doable .

Norma 50:25

It's just that , and I feel like a lot of projects need that flexibility and benefit from that flexibility versus the rigidity of the factory approach , right , right , when I would see that's the attractive part of your services is that you can think that way , and it also says a lot about your talents , right , you can actually play that role to help alleviate some of the pain points that will happen later on , which turns into being costly . Costly and more time consuming . Right , and , as you know , this industry is like I wanted it yesterday . Yeah right .

Juan Cabrera 50:55

Yeah , it helps alleviate all of that and makes it easier for everybody else and at the same time , it's nice to feel involved with a project . Yeah , you know , if you're just in a factory just pulling a crank , just doing , bolts , it's like you don't care about the bolt , you don't care . But when you do maybe less projects and and you really get involved in them , it's a different feeling , yeah it's been amazing talking to you , it really has , and you're right , this is we just scratched the surface the surface here .

Rich 51:23

There's a lot more to discuss and we will come back . We'll have you back . Another point , if you'll have it'd be awesome great , lovely . At this point in the show there's two things we'd like to do . There are some cards in a box , quite deep , meaningful questions . Okay , if you

Go-to Strategy for Achieving Your Goals

Rich 51:35

would pick any one out , if you wouldn't mind read it , answer it yourself , okay , and then Norma and I will take turns to answer as well .

Juan Cabrera 51:42

Wait Say a number Six seven Wait Nice .

Norma 51:47

So that means one , because it turns around , yeah , one .

Juan Cabrera 51:50

Let's see the card . What's your go-to strategy for achieving your goals ?

Norma 51:57

Oh , go-to strategy for achieving your goals , and you can interpret this question however you want .

Juan Cabrera 52:08

What's my go-to strategy to achieving my goals , Other than crying right ?

Norma 52:16

Because there's too many Other than curling and crying .

Juan Cabrera 52:20

I don't know . I feel like it's try to look at the problem from as many angles as possible . That's a good one .

Juan Cabrera 52:26

Because , there's always multiple ways of approaching something . The fact that everybody is doing one thing doesn't mean that it has to be that way . Look at that way , because if a lot of people is doing it , there might be a reason behind it . But it's like the anecdote where ? Why are the trains or the rail tracks , the distance that they are ? And then , to make the story short , basically comes down to the width of two horses' butts , because that's what the Romans made their roads based on .

Norma 52:53

Really , is that the explanation , having two horses in front of the cart and they needed that much . Oh , my .

Rich 52:58

God , you know what I mean . There you go Loads like you today .

Juan Cabrera 53:00

You know what I mean , so it's like sometimes things are done in a way because back in the day were done in certain way for a reason , and most of more often than not , people forget the reason why something was done . Right , feel like trying to understand whatever you're doing . Try to understand what's the reason behind it . Okay , and I'm trying to see multiple options to go to that to get to that how about you ?

Norma 53:26

okay , I'm going to answer it a little different , in that my go-to is like what instinctually do you go to ? What are your instincts ? My go-to to achieving your goals and I'm going to say it's listen to your own voice , the deep , deep voice , because oftentimes you run into obstacles , you run into people saying , or you know , some other variable will come into play , but and I've said this a few times but your intuition does it feel right . Should I do it ? Should I take a risk ? Right Is really for me , is my go-to . It's where I go to move things forward and to achieve .

Norma 54:05

When I take too many other variables . Well , it's supposed to be like this , or I read this , or the process should actually be these five steps , and sometimes , if you can tell yourself you know what , no , remember , you can actually bend time , you can actually do your own little superpowers , or you have a contact or just throw it out to the universe . You know , wake up in the morning , go to sleep saying universe , help me with this problem , and I'm going to wake up and a solution will come magically happen . Yeah , so that's like my little go-to . What ?

Rich 54:37

No .

Norma 54:38

What is yours ?

Rich 54:39

My go-to one is belief . You know is believing in your goal , believing you can do it yeah , that's so cool . So I've got to have , personally , I've got to have belief in it . Secondly , it's going to be is the drive to push myself forward you need , I feel . For me , anyway , if I set myself a goal to do something , I will push myself until I do it . I'm not going to turn around and say like I'm going to be a pilot , I'll fight a pilot . It's never going to happen . The goals I try and set myself are goals that they're out there , they're well at the edge of my stretch , but they're achievable . And that's what I'll aim for and I'll go for it and I will push and push and push until I get to where I want to get to .

Norma 55:22

So one last thing , Juan . We always like to end our segments with advice . Is there any advice or words of wisdom , or what would you tell yourself for our listeners who are listening ? What could you share from the journey that you've been on thus far ? That would be helpful for others to know ? I would say .

Juan Cabrera 55:47

I think that trusting yourself is definitely something important , but also don't be afraid to be different , you know , and that sometimes the truth is that if there's sometimes in your life you are not valued in a place because you're not in the right place , and sometimes it's about changing the place where you are or the environment that you are or the people that you're with , with something that can appreciate your value in a different way . You know , because , like Same as when I was in Spain , I was the weird guy who's trying to things in an industry that was not really there . When I came here , all the sign I was one of the top five people in the planet doing something . You know , and that's the same person .

Juan Cabrera 56:33

You know , what I mean . So it's very . It changes a lot depending on the environment that you're on and depending on what you're around . So I would say just keep doing stuff and what I said before , like try to look at the thing from different points of view and try to understand why things are being done and what can you do to improve them , Because there is usually always room for improvement or finding your way of doing it .

Norma 56:58

Right , that's great Lovely , oh , Juan .

Rich 57:01

Thank you so much for your time .

Norma 57:04

We were in harmony there . Thank you so much for your time .

Norma 57:07

My pleasure , but we need to have you back , because I do want to hear

Final Thoughts and Personal Wisdom

Norma 57:10

these other stories . Oh , I have so many stories .

Juan Cabrera 57:12

I know you have so many stories . Yes , I was like let's try to focus . I didn't know how far ? Back . You wanted to go and I ended up going too slow .

Norma 57:18

No , no , no no .

Rich 57:19

So it was lovely . And your t-shirt, can you tell us what it says ?

Juan Cabrera 57:29

Honestly , it was a colorist . I solve problems .

Norma 57:30

You don't know you have in ways you cannot understand . Yes , love it Well , lovely , lovely , well . Thank you again and , yeah , we'll have you back .

Juan Cabrera 57:37

Love it all . Thank you .

Norma 57:39

And cut .. . Thank you for tuning in to Energis Podcast , where ambition meets achievement . If today's stories energized , you share this episode with someone who needs that spark . Stay connected , subscribe to our newsletter at nrjmediagroupcom and follow us on social media for more powerful insights .

Rich 58:05

Until next time , stay inspired stay bold and keep striving for greatness .

Rich 58:24

Energis Podcast is produced and co-hosted by Norma Garcia and Rich Reid . Our Creative Director is none other than David H Tanaka . Our talented music composer is Steve Devaney . Our devotion to motion graphic designer is Mike Macklin . Our very spirited technical advisor is Tracy Williams . Our amazing marketing manager , Lauren Carter . Our man of many words publicist is Josh Gershman . And introducing our producer's assistant , Blake Miele , Energist Podcast is brought to you by NRJ Media Group .