Licensing Veterinary Professionals in Michigan

Veterinarians and veterinary technicians play an important role in protecting the health of both animals and the public. In this episode, we explore Michigan's veterinary licensing process, the standards that help ensure quality care, and how LARA supports these trusted professionals from education to licensure.

Verify a License: 
https://aca-prod.accela.com/MILARA/GeneralProperty/PropertyLookUp.aspx?isLicensee=Y&TabName=APO 

Learn more about Veterinary Licenses in Michigan: https://www.michigan.gov/lara/bureau-list/bpl/health/hp-lic-health-prof/vet

Transcript

Anastasha Osborn 0:20

Hello and welcome back to the LARA Living Room. For many of us, this is gonna be a fun episode because pets are more than just animals, and for a lot of us, they're just like our family members. And we trust veterinarians and veterinary technicians to care for them through every stage of their lives. And that's from routine checkups to emergency situations. And today we're actually going behind the scenes to look at how Michigan helps ensure those professionals are qualified to provide the care, and then also why veterinary licensing actually matters to every pet owner. But before we bring on our guest, fill up your coffee or drink of choice, grab a seat and get comfortable because you are now in the LARA Living Room. Jim and Christina, thank you guys both so much for being here. Welcome to the LARA Living Room Podcast.

Christina Koehler 1:00

Thank you for having us.

James Maguffee 1:01

Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks very much.

Anastasha Osborn 1:03

Yeah, so Christina is kind of, I'm gonna not say she's a vet, but she's this is her second time being on here. And Jim, this is your first time. It is. And we were just talking before we hit record about some of the nerves that we might have, but I'm excited. I think this conversation will be really fun. Um, and so I'm excited to jump right into it.

Christina Koehler 1:19

Excellent.

James Maguffee 1:19

Let's do it.

Anastasha Osborn 1:20

All right, so I have two cats. I'm a big cat person. I know there's a whole thing about cats versus dogs. Um, but um, I'm a cat person and I definitely consider them my children. Um, and they're like my little fur babies. Um, I know I'm not the only one who probably views their pets as family members. So when we take them to a veterinarian or a vet clinic, um, we're trusting, you know, that they're getting the best care, you know, that the people there are qualified and can do their jobs. So um I kind of want to start there. So what role, um, and either of you can can jump in, what role does LARA play really in kind of helping ensure that all our Michigan veterinarian professionals are qualified for this work?

Christina Koehler 2:01

Um, I can start on a licensing perspective. Uh, so we obviously license um both both veterinary technicians and also veterinarians, um, but there's also some student and educational limited licenses that are beneficial for both their position at like a university or something like that. But those licenses give us the opportunity to make sure they have the correct education and that we have fingerprints and background checks on them and all of that kind of stuff to ensure that their education, they've taken the correct exam, that sort of thing, um, which hopefully will help if there is a situation down the road where enforcement is necessary.

Anastasha Osborn 2:39

Yeah. And Jim from enforcement side, I mean, yeah, good segue.

James Maguffee 2:42

Uh on the public health code investigation side, we come in when either something has gone wrong or someone's perception maybe was that something didn't go as planned. And our role is to step in objectively, and essentially we're an information gatherer for the veterinarian board, and that's our primary role is to let them know everything that's knowable about a situation that happened uh regarding a licensed veterinarian professional, and um that's what we do.

Anastasha Osborn 3:06

So, Christina, from the licensing side, um, once someone decides that they want to become any type of a veterinarian professional, um, what does that journey in the licensing process kind of look like?

Christina Koehler 3:15

Okay, so from the very beginning of it is they're gonna apply for a license on MiPlus, which is the um the database that we utilize. Um there's each profession, each license type has its own um specific requirements, but all of them require an application and a fee, which includes like their two-year license and that sort of thing. Um, but it also we need to have fingerprints and a background check done. We're gonna verify their education, we're gonna confirm that they've completed the correct exam, um, to, which is not done through us, it's done through third parties. So we work with those um individual third parties to be able to get all of that information. Um, and then there's like the transcripts have to be requested by the applicant to come directly to our office.

Anastasha Osborn 3:59

Okay.

Christina Koehler 3:59

That's the other thing. Most things are primary source documents so that there's no ability to or less of ability to for fraudulent items. Right. So um so that process can it just sort of depends on the situation, how long it's gonna take, but they all kind of move in that order.

Anastasha Osborn 4:14

Okay.

Christina Koehler 4:15

Um, the processing for any application is four to six weeks, but I like to go faster than that if we can.

Anastasha Osborn 4:20

Yeah, absolutely. And how big is your licensing - I mean, I guess I have kind of two questions. So one is do you guys have teams, and I think you might have mentioned this on the other episode that you're on, different teams that specialize in different professions.

Christina Koehler 4:33

Yes. So there's four licensing teams. Um, I'm on team two, and we handle veterinary medicine a lot of people. Sounds like my question. Eight other professions.

Anastasha Osborn 4:41

Yeah, is they're like a group of you that's like these are our specialties that we review those license types. Yes. Stunning. Okay, beautiful. And um, once somebody's kind of already has their license, you kind of mentioned it's is it good for two years?

Christina Koehler 4:54

Yes. Okay. And then they're required to do continued education during their licensing period. And then when they do the renewal, they have to um like they're attesting that they've completed that. And then there's a CE audit process that happens. Okay. Um, not in our section, but it happens um every time that renewals happen, kind of they pull a percentage.

Anastasha Osborn 5:15

Okay. And CE as in continued education.

Christina Koehler 5:18

Yes, yes.

Anastasha Osborn 5:19

Okay, so we've talked about kind of LARA's role um when it comes to this profession. Um, but there's another important piece of the puzzle, and that is something that Jim kind of mentioned, which is the Michigan Board of Veterinary Medicine. So, can one of you guys kind of explain what the board does, who serves on it, and you don't have to give exact names, but maybe if there's like different professions that are on that board, um, and then how that works alongside with um your Bureau at the Bureau of Professional Licensing. Sure.

Christina Koehler 5:42

Sure. Sure. Um, so the board consists of both veterinary technicians and veterinarians and public members. Um, and there's subcommittees that kind of look at different things like education that is acceptable. Um, there is also subcommittees for disciplinary action, and so they they work within the subcommittees and then come and give a a recommendation to the rest of the board, and then they usually vote on it in different board meetings, which happens once every three months.

Anastasha Osborn 6:11

Okay.

Christina Koehler 6:11

Um, we work with the board and board support specifically to be able to understand, like the the board is going to create the rules based on the public health code. Um, sometimes it's not really understood what we do on a licensing standpoint and how that transpires to the applicant. So we work with them to be able to make sure that what they're requesting is feasible. Gotcha. And and can happen in a timely manner. Okay.

Anastasha Osborn 6:39

Can you explain a little bit? I mean, you kind of at the beginning, but the difference between those license types?

Christina Koehler 6:44

Yes. So a veterinary technician is considered - um, I actually just talked to a veterinary technician the other day, and she actually described it as like a nursing position for um for veterinary medicine. So they're gonna do the things like they're gonna give immunizations, they're gonna take blood, they're gonna do that kind of thing. Um, and then there's a veterinarian, which is um pretty pretty self-explanatory, I think.

Anastasha Osborn 7:07

They're the doctor of like the doctor of the animals.

Christina Koehler 7:10

Yes. So then there's uh veterinary senior student limited license that we offer. Um that's intended for um students that are in their final year and potentially doing more of an um like an externship kind of a situation, hands-on work. Um, and then there's a veterinical academic limited license that's intended for people that are working like at a university. So it's um a licensees employment or contractual relationship with an academic institution. Okay. So like MSU. Perfect. They have a veterinary clinic and they have veterinary medicine programs, so that's a perfect example.

Anastasha Osborn 7:47

Yeah.

Christina Koehler 7:47

And then there's a veterinary educational limited license, um, which is uh allows the individual to practice within the licensee's postgraduate educational program. So this is like an internship situation. But we want them to be licensed so that there's no craziness.

Anastasha Osborn 8:03

Yes, yeah, that's fair. That's probably the word I would use. Um okay, so we're talking a lot about licensing stuff. So I kind of want to switch over to Jim so he can talk a little bit about his team. Um, so your team becomes involved, as you mentioned, kind of when concerns are raised. Um, without giving any confidential information, of course, can you walk us through what happens when someone files a complaint um against a veterinarian or a veterinary technician or any of the other license, I guess?

James Maguffee 8:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of what we've talked about already today will come into play because the board plays a big role in that. The way the statutes are designed in the state is if there's a consumer who has a concern and wants to put it in the form of an allegation against a licensed professional, they'll submit it through our system, and that goes to a subcommittee of the board.

Anastasha Osborn 8:47

Okay.

James Maguffee 8:48

And the board are the ones who decide whether or not that matter is authorized for an investigation. So if the board reviews an incoming complaint and thinks that it doesn't rise to that, we'll never even see it or hear about it. Um and so it takes the board to authorize these for us to get them. Usually it's a subcommittee of three and it's a quorum. So if there's two or more, the way the law is set up, if for whatever reason we've caught them when they're on vacation or what have you, if there's a lack of a response, that'll automatically be authorized for an investigation as well.

Anastasha Osborn 9:15

Okay.

James Maguffee 9:15

But importantly for the investigators is the board member voting, if you will, on whether or not that gets authorized will often comment about what their concerns are. And that's very instructive for us. We're investigators, we're lay people. We do these uh investigations for 27 professional licensing boards. So we're not subject matter experts. So I always tell people we're information gathering experts. You know, we know how to get to the truth and gather facts and put a work product together on behalf of the boards, but we don't understand the complexity of practicing veterinary medicine, right? And so when the board members put those comments in there, that'll often give us a jump-off point for an investigation, give us informed questions to ask the licensee and things like that. So it's pretty interesting how that works. Um, and then frequently, probably more in my management role than uh an investigator directly, but often I will contact a board chair on a case and say, hey, this has come up and this is an issue that I don't have the toolbox for. What do you think about this? And they're often very instructive on how to put something aside or to run with an important issue. So it's been really interesting to work with the boards, and I will tell you the current veterinary board is fantastic.

Anastasha Osborn 10:20

That's incredible.

James Maguffee 10:21

Very responsive to us, really great to work with the board. I can't say enough great about the board chair.

Anastasha Osborn 10:25

Yeah, that's great. That's great to hear. Um, so let's say for pet owners specifically, they're filing a complaint. Maybe they feel a little intimidated to file this complaint. Um, what would you want people to know about that process and what types of concerns should actually be reported?

James Maguffee 10:39

Oh, yeah, man. I can happy to answer that question. Uh, you know, it's we talk behind the curtain a little bit, and I want to be respectful, of course, but that these veterinary cases can be very emotional, much much more so than some of the other professions that we investigate, to be honest with you. I mean, we we love our pets, right? And I think the system itself is a little cumbersome and hard to deeply understand when you're on the consumer end of it, right? And when the outcome is not what you hoped for for your pet, that doesn't necessarily mean anything has been done wrong, you know. And as investigators, we're very much taking in a completely objective look. You know, in in almost every case, we don't even have the frame of reference to make a judgment about uh a veterinarian's medical decisions. That's for the board to do. Our job is to get all the information context around it. But if I could get the public to better understand the system, I suppose is that that we are just an objective fact-gatherer. I think there's often an assumption that because the complaint or the allegation was accepted for investigation, that there's been some presumption on our part that there's been a mistake or a violation of the health code, and that is very much not the case. And getting that across to uh all the interested parties is sometimes a challenge.

Anastasha Osborn 11:50

Yeah, I bet. Um so let's say for someone who's looking for, let's say, a new veterinarian, let's say, or if they just got a new pet and they're like, I don't know where to start, uh, I don't know where to go, um, what advice would you give them? Are there any resources that are available again that can help pet owners um you know verify a license or something like that?

Christina Koehler 12:08

Yeah, I was just gonna say for sure the verify a license webpage, um, which is on our main Mi Plus site, um, because that is um you can see in real time if there is allegations, if there's an outstanding complaint, if there's past stuff, which could make you um help you make a better, more informed decision of where you want to take your loved ones.

Anastasha Osborn 12:28

Yes, yeah, exactly. Oh, this I have a good question because I was thinking about this originally when I was planning this um episode. I almost brought on a sister department to have somebody else come in and give an outsider perspective, but timing just didn't work. So maybe you guys can help kind of bring some light to this answer to this question. So veterinary medicine intersects with a lot of different areas from animal health to public health. So does LARA partner with other state agencies that help protect both animals and the public? And if so, what does that collaboration kind of look like? Are there any other departments that you guys work with?

Christina Koehler 13:04

So uh we work with MDARD um as well with some of the veterinary and then the controlled substance of all of that and what that looks like. So we have meetings every nine, every three months or something like that, um, just to make sure we're all on the same page. There's specific trainings that they facilitate for euthanasia and things like that. So they do a lot of accreditation for that. So we we work with them directly and we just try to keep a good open line of communication. So that's the first one that stops pops in my brain.

Anastasha Osborn 13:35

Yeah.

James Maguffee 13:36

Yeah, I wouldn't say that we have a formal partnership with uh other state agencies necessarily related directly to the veterinary practice, but um you know, the nature of our role in that we're neutral fact gatherers kind of calls for us to be a little bit standalone, I think. But we do interact a lot with other agencies. MDART is one of them. I already talked about how we interact with the board, but that's probably the most frequent. And then, of course, for us, the attorney general's office comes into play um if and when there's a violation of the health code that turns into something that needs to be addressed with a little more action. We become uh pretty entwined with the adjourned attorney general's office and making sure they have all the information that they need.

Anastasha Osborn 14:11

Yeah. I just think it's so cool. I love when I can, you know, share with the public when there are those intersections because I think they happen more often than people realize. We're oftentimes doing a lot of joint work um because there's some overlap at different areas. So I was just curious. And I was thinking about MDARD. I'm like, I feel like MDARD has to have some type of you know interaction with the veterinarian. So I guess before we wrap up, I kind of had just a fun question. I was writing this out and I was thinking this is kind of silly, but we're just gonna roll with it. Um, if pets could talk, and I am convinced my cats can talk to me through their own meowing ways. Um, but what do you think they would want people to know about all the work that happens behind the scenes to keep them safe and healthy? That's a fun question.

James Maguffee 14:54

Well, I'll start off with something light since you kind of introduced it that way. In our report forms, um, they're you they're the same across the board for the professions. So there's nothing special on the veterinary report form on the investigation side. So under the patient block, the pets are typically referred to by their name and then the last name of their owner. And so it kind of looks very um humanized, if you will, uh, on the report forms. And we kind of joke about that a little bit. And then there's a mandatory section on the forum about patient interview.

Anastasha Osborn 15:23

Uh-huh.

James Maguffee 15:23

And so it's sometimes comical to me to see how the investigator handles that instead of sometimes instead of just a simple NA, it might be something about, you know, patient as a feline or no interview conducted as patient as a cat. So occasionally we'll lighten things up a little bit with that regard.

Anastasha Osborn 15:39

That's so funny.

James Maguffee 15:40

But I do think uh, you know, on a more serious note, I just there's 19 investigators uh looking into these matters on behalf of you know the 10 million plus people in the state of Michigan. And um, if I could just toot their horn for a second, you know, these people care. And um, you know, consumers certainly call in or make complaints because, like we talked about, the outcome wasn't what they wanted. And you know, we do a lot of educating of what we can do, what we can't do, and and often um, you know, showing that just because an outcome wasn't was not what was hoped for doesn't necessarily mean that the law's been violated. And so I got 19 people looking into these things with a lot of heart and soul, and they really care, and they're ready to hear uh both complainants and very importantly the licensees in these matters. You know, we're we're working on their behalf as well. Um, we want to make sure that they're out there and empower to do what they need to do to make our pets safe and healthy. And um, so yeah, I hope they hope they know that. We're working hard for them.

Anastasha Osborn 16:35

Yeah, I appreciate that. What about you, Christina?

Christina Koehler 16:37

Well, I have a dog who is my baby, my my furry baby, and um she would be like, because she's got an attitude, she'd be like, Yes, do your job, mom.

Anastasha Osborn 16:49

Do your job so that way I can be safe. Thank you. That's right, that's right. Um no, I'm just I'm sorry, I just am thinking about Jim saying that the patient portion of that form, I'm just like, I need to see this. That is so great. Incredible. Thank you both for being here. Um, I really appreciate you both taking the time and this is such a fun conversation. I even though we obviously know it's it's very important work, we care about the health and safety of obviously people, um, but we also care about the health and safety of their animals as well. So I appreciate the work that you both do and taking the time to come onto the podcast today.

James Maguffee 17:20

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

Anastasha Osborn 17:21

Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. Of course. All right, so whether you're welcoming a new puppy, taking your cat in for a routine checkup, or caring for a beloved companion through every stage of life, today's conversation is a great reminder that there is an entire team working behind the scenes to help protect both animals and the people who care for them. If you'd like to learn more about the veterinary licensing in Michigan, you can go ahead and look at our show notes. We have a link right to their website. And we want to thank you for listening to the LARA Living Room podcast from our living room to yours. We'll see you next time.