Business with the Donnos
Join the Donno family each week as we share the real highs and lows of running a business together—mixing practical advice with unfiltered stories from behind the scenes of family life and entrepreneurship.
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Business with the Donnos
Apprenticeship vs University: Finding the Right Path
The age-old question of whether to pursue university education or an apprenticeship remains a pivotal decision for young people and businesses alike. After attending an enlightening debate at Cambridge University on whether graduates can compete in today's job market, we found ourselves on opposite sides of the argument – Paul championing apprenticeships while Jade defended the value of university degrees.
Drawing from our direct experience employing apprentices at One Account, we've witnessed firsthand how young talent like Harry, James, and Zach have transformed into invaluable team members. The apprenticeship model offers unique advantages for small businesses: you can shape fresh minds to your specific practices, watch them embody your company culture, and harness their enthusiasm and energy. Yet this approach demands significant investment – in time, training, and patience through the inevitable learning curves.
For small businesses, the financial incentives to take on apprentices have been crucial. The government's decision to remove Level 7 apprenticeships represents a concerning shift that may prevent businesses like ours from supporting higher-level qualifications in the future. Without this support, opportunities for talented individuals to progress through the apprenticeship route could vanish.
Our personal journeys highlight different paths to success – Paul starting at 17 through an apprenticeship route and eventually founding his own practice, while Jade pursued university before joining the family business and now completing an MBA through an apprenticeship program. These contrasting experiences demonstrate there's no one-size-fits-all approach.
We also touch on the critical importance of working with regulated professionals, particularly in accountancy. The temptation to choose cheaper, unregulated services often leads to costly mistakes and missed opportunities – a painful lesson we've seen clients learn before returning to our fold.
Ready to explore whether an apprentice might be right for your business? Or perhaps you're weighing up university versus apprenticeship for your own career? This episode offers practical insights from both perspectives. Subscribe now, share with a fellow business owner, and join the conversation!
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Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk about business, family and everything in between. I'm your host, Jade Dono, and I'm here with my dad, Paul Dono. That's me. That's you. Yeah, Who'd have thunk it? And this week's topic is should you hire an apprentice?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, that was a short podcast.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Going in at 22 seconds simples um, no, really. So this, this discussion's come up because we went to a debate yesterday hosted in the cambridge university, which is really cool like it's just filled with tradition, um, including the debating hall. The chairs are super uncomfy because they're so old, but it's a really cool place to visit and I would urge you to go to a debate there if you can, because it's a good experience to have. I've never been to anything like that before.
Speaker 2:I told you you'd like it.
Speaker 1:You did Well. I never doubted that. I would like it to be fair.
Speaker 2:Well, Josh didn't want to go, did he? He said he wouldn't like it.
Speaker 1:No, Josh didn't want to go, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go. Why have I got to go?
Speaker 1:He didn't want to go, but but did he like it?
Speaker 2:He did he really enjoyed it as well.
Speaker 1:It was something different. The motion was that graduates can't compete. Now we had three speakers of both agreeing with the motion and then three opposing the motion Some really great, great speakers. On the agreeing with the motion. We had Grace Hardy, who's doing really, really well in the accounting industry. She's making big waves and she's so impressive, like she's what? 24 or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's very young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's very young and she's doing so much already, so she is one to watch.
Speaker 2:I did start my practice at 24.
Speaker 1:Oh, well done you.
Speaker 2:Just put it out there.
Speaker 1:Okay, well done you just put it out there. I mean, I know it was 30 odd years ago, but I still did.
Speaker 1:Well done you didn't have the internet then oh, that must have been really hard it was there was another lady called Christina and she worked in science and she was doing an apprenticeship and getting her degree through her apprenticeship. So she was talking a lot about that, which was really interesting. And there was then another person and I can't remember his name, I think it might have been Chris- it was because the other one was Ross and he'd done a lot of clever things. He'd been at universities. I think he was a fellow. I don't actually understand what you did.
Speaker 1:He'd written a book that I can't actually understand, one of the things he'd written a book that I can't repeat the name of because it's not because it's rude, I just didn't understand it was quantum something yeah, I don't know wow, impressive guy some sort of light reading, yeah you'll take it on our cruise yeah, maybe who knows, um, but yeah, he he also.
Speaker 1:He discussed more about sort of the failings of universities, which were really good points. And then we had three on the other side. We had Ross, who, um, was a professor. He's made a brand new university in Peterborough, um, with new sort of innovative ideas, sort of picking up on those failings that Chris was saying. Um. We had Anna, who was a rower, who had an Olympic gold medal that she passed around everybody, she let everybody have a look at it and, bearing in mind there must have been 200 odd people there she passed it round, or let everyone else pass it round to have a look at it a bronze and a gold
Speaker 2:bronze in Beijing and a gold in England and the Beijing medals all had jade in. Yes.
Speaker 1:She said the gold medals had a very pale jade and was very precious and I thought I should have held that one. Really.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:I'm a very pale jade.
Speaker 2:Oh, just not precious.
Speaker 1:Probably quite precious as well. Instead we got the bronze one, which was cheap as chips Jade, apparently, yeah, which is not me. So I got my picture with the medal, which was cool, and then the other one was Lord, how do you pronounce his name?
Speaker 2:Kieran Billamore.
Speaker 1:Billamore, lord Billamore, and he was excellent, a very, very clever guy. He founded Cobra Beer and I think he had more degrees than I can count, I think and he was an excellent speaker.
Speaker 2:I think what was quite impressive is that he actually stood up and said he's been given a lot of honorary doctorates, but he wanted a real one. So he's now studying at this moment. Um, you know, and he's he's not a young chap and at this moment he's studying for a doctorate, so he can have a real one rather than an honorary one yeah, I think that's just phenomenal I think so as well, because he, like he, doesn't need it no, but he felt like he should earn it yeah, which?
Speaker 2:well you know. That just shows you the drive and determination of the guy yeah, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1:Um. So yeah, because we went to that debate and we heard those two sides um, we thought we'd talk about apprenticeships. Now I me and dad had different thoughts on the can graduates compete or not, and I think the argument ended up being sort of university versus apprenticeships, which I think wasn't necessarily what the argument should have been, because I think that university has its place and I think apprenticeships have their place and I think people can thrive in both, but I think graduates can absolutely compete with people on apprenticeships as well. So, yeah, whereas Dad's got the opposite opinion, he went through the other door, although my side won.
Speaker 2:So Well, if you look at it as our group, yeah, Okay. Okay, so within our group that we took, we took. There was six of us that went to the debate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, three were graduates and three, including myself, have come through apprenticeship. Yeah, two graduates went through the nay. Four people went through the yay and supported the motion. So if we take it as a micro vote, no, because mum's I think we'll take it as the whole room. No, no, do it as a micro growth, as a family group. Yeah, yeah, one accounts, it was four, two I don't think it works like that well, it did in my head, my head.
Speaker 1:Your head is wrong. Anyway, it made us really think about the apprenticeship side of things, because we're all for apprenticeships. I think they're excellent, and we've got Harry, who we've taken on all the way through his apprenticeship, and James. We took on Zach right at the end of his apprenticeship and now he's on another apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:But Grace, she started on apprenticeships. She's doing really well in industry at the end of his apprenticeship and now he's on another apprenticeship. But Grace, she started on apprenticeship. She's doing really well in industry at the moment. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm doing an apprenticeship now for my MBA, so I've done both sides of the thing. So I know Although I'd still count myself as a graduate in terms of the debate once I've done the MBA, because I get a master's.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's where some of the confusion was yeah, and that's where the argument, I think, was lost a little bit, because the lady Christina she was doing a degree to get to be and therefore became a graduate which was kind of laboured on correctly. She was impressive, but you know.
Speaker 1:I thought her argument impressive.
Speaker 2:Her argument was shot when she was going to be a graduate at the end of her apprenticeship so that's where the apprenticeship graduate mix argument changed.
Speaker 1:Oh, it didn't quite work because you can do both, which I actually think is a great option.
Speaker 2:But our apprentices have done really well. I mean, you look at James. I mean he's started from Castle Manor, which was obviously a top school in Haverhill the best school in Haverhill, of course Of course I've got no comments on that.
Speaker 1:Don't send us hate mail any.
Speaker 2:Sammy.
Speaker 1:Ward people.
Speaker 2:It produced some very, very good, impressive people who run businesses, particularly in accountancy practice, in the town. So you know, it was great to bring James through. He's really shining and getting our clients in a good position and reviewing them and giving good business advice. And Harry, who come from the other school in town which can't be named because it wasn't as good as cost man, obviously, um, poor harry, but I have told him I know many times but he's doing some great work. He wants to do accounts.
Speaker 2:He loves doing the accounts and he's doing really really good job in his accounts and supporting um james in that side. So from an apprenticeship point of view, as a business, they are really really good um, really good workers um, and we've taken them from school and they're flying, absolutely flying yeah yeah, so I think that's great. I mean, zach came to us from another firm of accountants and is studying his next level qualifications, his ACCA. He will do very well moving forwards, but we didn't take him straight from school.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:So he'd already got his AAT. I think he got it on the day he started with us. Yeah, but again, we're supporting him through an apprenticeship program, which I think is really really good. Obviously, you supporting through an apprenticeship program, which I think is really really good, obviously you're. You're doing the apprenticeship program as well.
Speaker 1:Um and yeah yeah, and I think there's a bit of a misconception on the apprenticeships that you have to be a school leaver to do them. You can be an apprentice at any time. If you want that additional learning, you can apply um even after you've been at university. I mean, josh did josh um and myself, but josh decided to have a career change. He used to do um data analysis for cricket. That's what he's trained in um. He decided to have a bit of a career change so he did the apprenticeship for his ATT, which he now uses and has done well.
Speaker 2:So he's had both the university and the apprenticeship experience, and I think that's served him well and and josh and and yourself, is that you would probably not bother with the apprenticeship side if there wasn't financial incentives for your employers no, probably not you know, because the apprenticeship side, the learning.
Speaker 2:I remember when james we, you know james had to learn gcse, maths or whatever the equivalent is now, and he had a level maths and and shone on it. So the questions they were asking him in the apprenticeship program were not adapted to him, you know and he was doing an accounting um exam.
Speaker 2:Why on earth would you want to learn? So you know, some of the apprenticeship side of it isn't really fit for purpose and probably needs a good review. But the financial incentives for small firms like ourselves, um, enable us to put people through an apprenticeship. Yeah, um, and I think that, as a, as a small employer, that's crucial. I don't think this government, a small employer, that's crucial. I don't think this government understands small employers. They talk about the apprenticeship levy. They talk about, you know, supporting employers, but us small employers, we need support. We can't afford to put people through, unfortunately, this level of fees for their tuition, let alone the time it takes our team to teach them, particularly Adrian, who is a brilliant sort of mentor. They need a lot of time off to get through the exams etc. That support I don't think is right and I think that the government I know some of the professional bodies, particularly our professional body, are really lobbying hard for that. So, yeah, I think the government's got to wake up.
Speaker 2:To be quite honest, I don't want to be political on here, but they've got to understand what a smaller micro business is yeah, and they're also removing the Level 7 apprenticeships which.
Speaker 1:I don't think is the right thing to do, because it means now I wouldn't have been able to have done my Masters because it would have cost too much. And I actually think doing it through the apprenticeship has been really rewarding, because all of my assignments have to relate to one account, which means even though I'm writing it academically, it's all applying to the theory. I'm learning practically and that's invaluable for anybody doing it um in alongside their business um, and removing that opportunity for people to upskill and and work their way up in professions, that's I think that's a bit of a mistake.
Speaker 2:And I've said uh, you know, my in the forums I belong to, you know, within the accountants, is that we probably wouldn't take another Zach on you know, which is a shame, because he wants to do his ACCA.
Speaker 2:We're sponsoring him for that, yeah, but we couldn't afford the time that is required off, we couldn't afford the tuition fees. We just wouldn't do it, you know, and that's an opportunity for that young person that is going to be missed moving forward. You know, it's's an opportunity for that young person that is going to be missed moving forward. You know, it's our first Level 7 person that we've taken through and we will not be doing that in the future under this current regime.
Speaker 1:Well, not without the apprenticeship scheme as well. Well, absolutely yeah indeed.
Speaker 2:But you know, up to Level 4, we will certainly reconsider. Yeah, so I know that sounds negative, isn't it? But I just think the support's got to be there for small business. That's my, I mean. I know we've got a rant session later, but that's that's probably.
Speaker 1:One of my big rants is that we need to support small business, and small businesses, whatever they do, need to feel they've got that support yeah, but we also need to support young people what we do if they can't go to university, if they don't want the debt, then the apprenticeships are the other option, and if businesses aren't willing to take the apprentices on, that is a problem, and so yeah it is, and so I can only speak from experience, but taking apprentices on has certainly helped our business yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just because I went through the neighborhood does not mean I was against apprenticeships, just putting it out there I think they're great.
Speaker 2:You know, we can all have opinion, even if it's wrong no, I just think graduates can compete that's all fine.
Speaker 1:I think with the right support system they can't compete but that could be said the other way around as well.
Speaker 2:Well, it could. And I think that the guy who said that universities aren't making people fit for purpose because their traditional way of learning isn't going to change I mean, I think Karen Bilamori, I think he turned around and said that when he started his doctorate he wasn't allowed to use AI because it's cheating. Two years later into his doctorate, he said they're encouraging me to use AI because that's what the workplace is expecting. So therefore, now it's not cheating, so that is an adaption. But I mean, two years ago AI existed. So if universities aren't catching up, then then, yes, the graduates that come out are not fit for purpose but I think that could be said the same in some workplaces that are taking on apprentices.
Speaker 1:They won't be using AI. Like, if you look at it from an accountancy practice, only what? 17%, I think something along those lines are even using online technology. So think of all those apprentices that are in traditional firms. They won't't be using AI. Well, you know, and they might not be getting any. They might not be in a place that wants to push their apprentices forward either or be able to give them the time, and therefore apprentices and graduates are on exactly the same level.
Speaker 2:Whatever Disagree to disagree.
Speaker 1:He knows, I'm right.
Speaker 2:I still went through the the yeas. I agreed the motion okay anyway.
Speaker 1:So apprentices do work well for small business. They've definitely worked well for us and I think some of the some of the reason is that you do get people in that are really keen and they're full of energy and they'll really work hard and you can also mold them to be your business person, so like a one-off person in our way.
Speaker 1:So it's it's easier to train them our habits than it is to break bad habits, um, which is a really good thing. They also grow with your culture, so they fit your culture, they understand it, they sort of live and breathe it. They've not known anything before, unless they have come from another workplace and they're doing the apprenticeship after being somewhere else. But still they, they grow with you, um, and they, you know, can learn new things that they couldn't bring in on the team absolutely from their study.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, the challenges are and we've touched on all of these, but I thought I'll just list them out for you is they do need time. They need to be trained properly if you're going to take an apprentice on. They need to be cared for, nurtured and pushed in the right direction. You should be the champion of them, and then you'll get the best out of them. Absolutely, um, you probably need a plan to be able to do that as well.
Speaker 1:So that's your job yeah, you need a plan. You need to know what they're learning, when and and really push them forward. Let them thrive um and understand as well. They're not. They're not there, just as you know.
Speaker 1:Cheap labor, if you like oh, crikey, they are there because they're learning and they're going to be one of probably one of your key people by the time they are done. And also you've got to be really forgiving. Mistakes happen. You need to let it slide, be patient and teach Rather than you know. Expect them to know everything, because they won't. So I thought we'd share a bit of our stories, dad, so that people know where we're coming from. So if you want to say sort of how you started through your apprenticeship and then yeah, so I mean, I started my working life at 17, as it were.
Speaker 2:I mean, before that I was working as well. You know, I went potato picking.
Speaker 1:Oh, well done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was good fun during my summer holidays. I've filled paint pots up, I've done other stuff and what have you. So you know, always enjoyed working Started. I did work experience from school yep which was great, messed up the filing system. You'd be surprised by that, wouldn't you? Apparently they couldn't find stuff after I've been there, but they still liked me for some reason and then, you know, offered me a training um contract through the youth training scheme, 50 pound a week.
Speaker 2:Oh so there you go and um and yeah, so I worked from there. That was an industry. Then I went into a local firm once I'd got my um, AAT, um started, uh, with ACCA, Um, but then, um, then the recession hit, so I set up on my own and as part of that, you can't continue your ACCA exams because you're in practice and you're studying just something they won't allow that's madness, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I think it's a bit archaic. I see why they try and do it, because some people might say that they are ACCA backed, etc. I get that, but it's a bit unfortunate SEMA actually allow you to do it which is quite interesting.
Speaker 1:I don't know if people have done it that way. I think continuous learning should be encouraged, not discouraged but there you go.
Speaker 2:That's the way it is. So I started in practice with a partner. Didn't like that, so went out on my own. Then um carried on. Paul dono and co was my my business. Um. You did some tax returns for me at about age 10 um and did keeping keeping a bit shredding and you also did the um some youtube videos. When that came on board I did yeah, or some sort of editing as well, which was great.
Speaker 2:I then merged that business. That went horribly wrong and then started one account. What about how long ago now, 11 years ago? Yeah, about 12 in December 12 years in December and gone from there. In that time I've done a lot of sat on a lot of boards, sat on AAT Chamber of Commerce, chaired a local Chamber of Commerce, various charity things, et cetera, local clubs and societies that we've been there and supported. So, yeah, so quite a bit when you look back, yeah. But yeah so that's where we've come from.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's all through an apprenticeship, no degrees, and you've achieved all of that, you know, without having no one in my family went to university.
Speaker 2:No, what about me Mum? Well, yeah, at the time you weren't here then and Mum hadn't gone.
Speaker 1:She was a mature student okay, so my mine is a bit different to yours, which is surprising, because you've never sort of pushed the academic route onto me and Katie at all. It's more been more our choice. Katie didn't go to university but I did um. But yeah, like dad, I worked early on. Well, I worked for dad for a little like little bits doing the shredding a little bit bookkeeping, a little bit of video editing.
Speaker 1:Um I um worked in the pub at 14. Um I then for um at school. There was going to be like a big exhibition, no expedition, that you had to save up the money, you had to raise the money for yourself. So I did lots of things then I put on events, I worked at the pub.
Speaker 2:I worked at the local children's play area. You did a lot of busking as well, didn't you?
Speaker 1:I did a lot of busking, I did a lot to try and raise, raise that money and it wasn't. You couldn't earn a lot at 16.
Speaker 2:So it was it was.
Speaker 1:It was quite a quite a slog, but I did. I think I was short by a little bit, but I did. I I raised more than anybody else in my in my year, so I, so I thought that was a win. So I did that. I went to university. I was a student. Well, no, I went to college first and at college then I was working at the children's play area, did like kids parties and stuff, and that was really fun, um, and I did my singing. So I was running my own little business as well, doing my singing, um, singing around the pubs and things. And then I went to university. Um, I didn't do a part-time job at university while I was there, but in the summers then I would put on little workshops for kids and build up my money to be able to then be fine at uni. And then I came back and didn't really know what to do with myself. So I did lots of different jobs with my degree and I think I think universities fail on setting expectations when you leave.
Speaker 1:I think you leave and you think you'll work straight away and especially, you work straight away in the west end yeah, but you won't, um, you have to do either an apprenticeship or work for free or get that experience, and I would encourage anybody who is at university at the moment to get the experience while you're there, because that will save you a whole world of issues when you finish. Um, just go meet some impressive people, go make connections, go get a bit of work experience over the summer. Just do it while you're at university. Um, anyway, I then decided to change path and I joined dad.
Speaker 1:Oh, at university as well, I put myself into a leadership role. I joined the musical theatre society. I decided I didn't want to do the performing, so I became the first female director in the musical theatre society. I jumped in with both feet and directed 70 freshers and I I put the emphasis on freshers because they're not easy to manage um 70 freshers in a showcase. And then I directed a musical after that, all whilst doing my dissertation. Um, that is something I think university gave me the opportunity to be able to do. You wouldn't be able to get to do that in the real world at 21.
Speaker 1:Not in an accountancy practice no experience and not in an accountancy practice. No, but that gave me the skills.
Speaker 2:You just have to let it go.
Speaker 1:That was awful. Anyway, I then left with my degree, not knowing what to do. I ended up, after, I think, about five jobs working for Dad and I think, yeah, my degree. Although it's in a totally different realm to accountancy, I think it does work alongside what we do quite nicely despite defying gravity oh, my goodness, these are awful.
Speaker 1:And um, and now I'm studying for my master's again. It's to you know, get that experience and that sort of learning under my belt so that I can help our clients with the credibility of doing that course.
Speaker 2:Well done, thank you it's all about you, innit well, that was my story we were doing my story, you did your story, I had to do my story yeah excellent, anyway.
Speaker 1:do you have anything else to say? You did my story, you did your story.
Speaker 2:I had to do my story. Excellent. Anyway, do you have anything else to say on apprentices?
Speaker 1:No, not at all, just that they're much better to employ than graduates.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily.
Speaker 1:Please write us your comments on what you think to the motion of graduates can't compete. I'll be really interested to know. Obviously, you know that me and dad are different sides of the fence, but I would love to hear your comments to know what you think on the matter. Um, so now we are into our unfiltered minute, so I'll start with with mine, because you know we've been talking about me for ages, so let's just carry on um.
Speaker 1:So this week we had a practice assurance review. So we're regulated accountants, so we have to, every three to five years, have a practice assurance review, where they literally tear your business apart and make sure you're doing every single little thing properly.
Speaker 2:It's like an Ofsted inspection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's sort of like Ofsted for accountants. Yeah, it is like that and it's very nerve wracking.
Speaker 2:I think I actually did go in, didn't I? When we were having our final sum up and I said to the guy I feel like a naughty school boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did. Said to the guy I feel like a naughty school boy. Yeah, you did come into the head teacher but I mean it's it's hard going but it is good and it's really good to know that if you're you're with a regulated accountant, that they're getting everything checked. I think from our client's point of view it is a great thing that we have it done. But making sure the man had everything he needed for this review in one place was quite a lot of work.
Speaker 2:Well, it was for you.
Speaker 1:And I'm quite happy it's over.
Speaker 2:So am I, because maybe my wine stocks won't be.
Speaker 1:Maybe not.
Speaker 2:Deplenished as quickly, but you did most of the work. Yeah, in fact, I did find the ICO certificate, which ended up being wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the one thing. And I asked you about the DBS checks and you were like, yeah, me and mum have them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that was it.
Speaker 2:And actually you did have a DBS check.
Speaker 1:I did, but not for one account.
Speaker 2:Yeah even so.
Speaker 1:I've got one now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, did you pass. Yes, oh, that's right.
Speaker 1:Just asking. That'd be awkward on the podcast, wouldn't?
Speaker 2:it Wouldn't it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's my little story of the week that we did get through it and I think we pretty much passed with flying colours. It was only that ICO certificate that if you are a business, everyone has to have an ICO registration.
Speaker 2:It is worth just doing that holds data.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's worth doing their little online quiz to make sure you're in the right tier, because they have different tiers and they don't evaluate it um as as they go, they'll just take the direct debit, so just make sure that you've not gone into tier two and we'd gone into tier two.
Speaker 2:But we didn't know.
Speaker 1:We've gone into tier two no, because we didn't know there were different tiers. Yeah, so just check that bit of advice. Just check your tiering is right on your ICO thing.
Speaker 2:And the tiering should follow. What a micro and small company is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But like most government things, it doesn't follow the new legislation when it changes. So the legislation's now changed on turnover, so we would be tier one, probably now.
Speaker 1:Well, that's annoying, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But we're not. We're tier two because they haven't changed the criteria to match the current rules.
Speaker 1:Well, very frustrating. But just a little bit of advice Check your tier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I say current rules, I mean compared to Companies House.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, all right. So what's your unfiltered minute?
Speaker 2:Oh, do you know what? So we've gone through. This quality assurance visit protects our clients. They know that all our team does CPD. In fact, kerry had a CPD review by the AAT as an individual one.
Speaker 2:But we make sure and she passed, obviously with flying colours, but we make sure everyone's up to date. We make sure all our insurances are up to date, we make sure that our ICO certificate's right. But we just our AML procedures. We make sure everything is right, don't we? That costs us to do that. So not just in software but in time. We've got people that work with us. That that's all they do. So we pay a salary, you know, for someone to do all this. Yeah, so you know it's not cheap for us as a business to do that from a cost point of view, let alone what's right for the client.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So what happened when we sat down? We were like, phew, that's over, really good, good meeting with the guy that reviewed us. Lo and behold, one of our small clients decides to go to Fred in the Shed. If your name's Fred on here, sorry about that. Or Fred they're much cheaper. So we looked at the website. We thought ok, how can someone be that much cheaper? Looked at the website there's no regulation. The website's about two pages long yep of course they're cheaper.
Speaker 2:They're not doing what we do, they're not keeping up to date like we do, so the end bill is cheaper. But how many cheaper firms do you do? We see that cost a lot of money, particularly in terms of clients for tax, particularly in supporting the business. I mean, what about that? We saw a client you know didn't want to go over the VAT threshold.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, because their accountant said there's a lot of work to do, but it's all right. The accountant was cheap, yeah, so I just kind of. That's just what gets my blood boiling. We've just been through all that and this client goes to a cheaper firm Unbelievable.
Speaker 1:It's not just cheaper, it's unregulated so they? Yeah, they're cheaper because they don't have to do all of the additional work that a regulated firm do. But the benefit if you're listening to this and thinking, oh well, I could save a bit of money going to an unregulated one. The problem is, if they're not up to date, you'll be losing out on the tax and you'll also if there is a problem, if you get an investigation. If there's a problem, you've got nothing to fall back on.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You can't do anything about it. You are putting you and your business at risk by doing that.
Speaker 2:And your livelihoods. You wouldn't go to a doctor and not expect them to be a doctor, would you?
Speaker 1:No, no, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2:So I just kind of it's just, I think it's an area that's really annoying. Yeah, don't get me wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, you know. I'm sure we've made mistakes, but we have processes in place to deal with those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we have processes in place to deal with those. Yeah and uh, you know, and we have insurance.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, to cope with that exactly um but yeah, so that that was my rant of the week, having gone through that visit and literally sitting back on the chair and this client saying they, they're going somewhere cheaper, that's unregulated, yeah, unbelievable anyway that was a rant that was a rant oh, I feel it gets my goat it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so our question for the week isn't one that somebody sent in, because nobody sent me a question, which was really sad so please send me a question for next week, because that'll really just make my day, um, but this is a question we just had in general, which was can we return to you as a client?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know this was after about I don't know what three or four years. So this particular business family business, lovely business decided that a regional firm was where they needed to be, because they needed a regional firm was where they needed to be because they needed a regional. You know they're much better than us little tiny firm that is as well qualified as that firm yeah. And provides much better. You know, they were very sort of big fish in a small pond with us and they became very small fish in a big pond and apparently they weren't returning their calls.
Speaker 1:Oh, really, yeah, what a surprise, what a surprise, but we see this, don't we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do you know the grass is always greener on the other side, because my mate down at the pub said these people are brilliant, so they left us about three or four years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're about to come back, yep, which you know, does we're pleased about. We are, um, you know, we love, we love the family, um, we, you know, and we see their business growing and we just think that's great. Um, but the grass isn't always greener, unfortunately. As a business, we have to sometimes go through that pain for people to realize that yeah, we've accepted them back. We don't accept everyone back, because some of them are proper pitter client yeah can't swear on it no, you can't but we have accepted them back and you know we look forward to work from them.
Speaker 1:So that was a great, a great question, um, but it'll be on our terms yeah, exactly it will be, and I think it's quite nice for us to know that the differences we think we have as a small family business yeah are accurate. We. They're coming back because they want the phone calls answered, they want to feel like they're loved, they want the help, and which is what we say we deliver. And it's nice to know that we do deliver and that when we say our competitors aren't delivering, on that we're right as well.
Speaker 2:I think the butchers do that, don't they?
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:Deliver.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, the dad jokes are full on today. They're so full on.
Speaker 2:It's even made me laugh.
Speaker 1:At least it made one of us laugh.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think that what is also really good there is that you know it was embarrassing for them to pick that phone up and say can we come back? Yeah, and I know, because I know this person, I know that that's probably taken them six to 12 months to ask that question. Yeah, and I know, because I know this person, I know that that's probably taken them six to 12 months to ask that question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so and we and, but they did ask it and it does take. You know, it takes someone who is probably a business owner and understands what's what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes you have to just.
Speaker 2:We just sat back and waited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway, I think that's it for this week so that's it for this week with Business of the Donos. If you liked this episode, please subscribe, share it with a business owner that you know and leave us a review. It will really help us to boost our accessibility with our podcast. But for now, we will see you next week. Yes, bye.