Business with the Donnos
Join the Donno family each week as we share the real highs and lows of running a business together—mixing practical advice with unfiltered stories from behind the scenes of family life and entrepreneurship.
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Business with the Donnos
The Great Work Debate: Home vs Office
The workplace has undergone a seismic shift since 2020, leaving business owners grappling with fundamental questions about where and how their teams should work. Jade and Paul Dono tackle this pivotal debate with refreshing honesty and practical insights from both sides of the generational divide.
Drawing from their experience running One Accounts through the pandemic—where they achieved remarkable 67% growth during remote working—the father-daughter duo dismantles outdated thinking around office presenteeism. "That lack of trust," Jade points out, "is never going to build a good culture with your team." Paul adds that businesses forcing full-time office returns are "missing out on talent," highlighting how their competitor's rigid "must work from office" job posting received minimal interest while their flexible approach attracted numerous qualified candidates.
The conversation explores nuanced realities often overlooked in the work location debate. They acknowledge that apprentices and new team members genuinely benefit from in-office learning—"you learn by osmosis," Jade explains—while experienced staff can thrive with greater autonomy. Their balanced approach includes mandatory "collaboration Mondays" when everyone connects face-to-face, combined with flexible arrangements throughout the week.
Beyond theoretical discussion, the Donos offer practical guidance for small business owners navigating these waters. From establishing proper KPIs to measure remote productivity to leveraging technologies like Loom for remote training, their advice is grounded in real-world application. They also address the potential downsides of home working, including boundary issues and isolation, providing a thoughtfully balanced perspective.
Whether you're struggling with talent recruitment, questioning your current workplace policy, or simply curious about effective models for today's changing landscape, this episode delivers actionable insights without oversimplified answers. The Donos' refreshing conclusion? There's no universal right approach—each business must find its unique balance based on industry, roles, and culture.
Looking to modernize your workplace approach while maintaining productivity and team cohesion? This episode is your essential guide to navigating the new world of work with confidence and clarity.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify & Apple Music and don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review – and send us your questions for future episodes!
Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk about family business and everything in between. I'm your host, jade Dono, and I'm here with my dad, paul Dono, and this week's topic we're going to be looking into a big debate, I think in the whole working industry, which is is it better to work from home or work in an office? Dun dun dun.
Speaker 2:So we're doing this from your home office, aren't we?
Speaker 1:Yes, we are Not in the office office. We might all be a little biased in this episode, but anyway, I know you're. I think you are more leaning towards the office vibe than the home vibe, so this could be an interesting discussion.
Speaker 2:I mean, I like the office vibe purely for the fact that you can talk to your team members, exchange ideas, you learn new things by, you know, talking with the team, you can talk about clients with the team and what have you, and I think that you're a lot more collaborative. From that respect, it's a good vibe. Obviously, the new offices we got are great. You know, we've got the cafe. We have a good chat on the way in um with uh, with sean and uh, um and the guys on the on the front desk there and uh yeah. So I I actually, yeah, I really like the office, but you could also like sometimes being at home, um, and working for the reason of escaping from the team and escaping from that to get your head down and sort of concentrate on work and learn new things as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And nip out and do a bit of golf practice.
Speaker 1:What? Secretly and for those who couldn't see, I was doing a little. What are these called? Speech quote marks Speech quote marks Secretly going to golf.
Speaker 2:Secretly Just nip out a little bit of practice.
Speaker 1:I think that kind of helps the day well it might do, might help you relax a bit more. It's always good. Yeah, oh, it's good. So I think, with um working from home with us, at one accounts we used to pre-covid everything's pre-covid now, isn't it so? Pre-covid, we were in the office. Everyone was in the office at least four days a week. Some people did have one work from home day. I had one work from home day. I know kerry had one work from home day, um, and we operated like that. That's just the way it was. We're in the office way more than we are now yeah however, because all of our stuff's online.
Speaker 1:Um, when covid hit, we did all work from home full time for a good year and a half before we started absolutely integrating back and we were able to do that, which is great.
Speaker 1:But because we did that, obviously everyone then realised that being at home they can focus more and that they're able to be at home more, and we realised that as well as sort of running the business, we realised that people could be at home more as well. But then after COVID, we did still want a bit of office time. So collaboration, in my opinion, is far easier when you've got people face to face. It is just a little easier. However, when I work from home, I can focus on the work more, which is also important. So I'm very much on the fence. Well, I'm not on the fence. I think hybrid working is a really good solution, but it won't work for every industry no, you know, and there are.
Speaker 2:I mean one good thing, that that came out of the. The. The working from home bit on covid is the fact that it's acceptable to have teams meetings yes um, you know, and with clients, so we're not getting in our cars like we used to and driving over to clients and etc. However, we're trying to promote that a little bit more now, because it is also good to see the working environment that the clients are in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely you know how can you sort of like go through things and you know and try and relate to that client if you can't actually see what they're physically doing and try and relate to that client if you can't actually see what they're physically doing? So I think that there's that creeping back in which I think is great and obviously, with us giving clients advice on promoting their business and getting their business moving forward, we do a lot more than just accounts. So being able to get in your car, out and and seeing the clients, I think is is is um, almost essential. Again now, um, although some clients who are we've got across the country, you know we're not probably gonna jump in our car and nip over to wales or up to scotland etc. So you know we have to work around that as well.
Speaker 2:But I think that you know team zoom etc are all um, are all accepted practices, um, which is great. I mean, we've got a team's call after this, haven't we? We're helping someone out after this. Yeah, um, and it's on teams. They're based in london, we're based in in haverhill and suffolk and that's fine, it's acceptable yeah, and I think something um, just on the team's calls and stuff.
Speaker 1:Something that I heard daniel priestly say on a podcast is that sort of the development in technology since covid and since everyone had to be at home and the connections has meant that that ceiling has gone.
Speaker 1:So now we we as a business can take on clients from all over the country, no problem whatsoever, because we can do team schools and we can do that. So we've we've broken that, that ceiling, and it also means that if we find a really, really fantastic team member and they're based a couple of hours away means we can take them on because we can offer work from home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it means that we have accelerated opportunities because we're offering those solutions. Now some businesses and I know this has been all over the news, all over my tiktok some bigger companies are now forcing employees back into the office. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:I think that's wrong. I think there's a lot of talent out there that that work from home for whatever reason, whether it's you know, domestic reasons, or you know personal reasons, etc. And I think those businesses will be missing out on that talent yes um, and I just think that that's wrong.
Speaker 2:and I get it. I see why they want to do it, um, but who's making those decisions? Is it, like you know, older people? Do I count myself in that bracket? Um, but is it people that are used to traditional things? Um, I, I just don't. I don't think it's right. And I think it's quite interesting because I, you know, I walked through town the other day and someone shouts it out of a window. I've known the person for many, many years, good friend of mine, and he went Oi, and I said, oh, hello, and he said Where's your pinstripe suit? And I went, what do you mean? I had me shorts on and me One Accounts T-shirt on, and what have you? And t-shirt on, and what have you? And I went this is my pinstripe suit, what you're talking about and he would never, ever, ever get people working from home.
Speaker 2:He would never, ever, you know, go to a client meeting a pair of shorts. I mean no, you know and I don't know. Things have changed, yeah, and I look at my, my, my sort of. You know, when I did used to work in the office and you know I had suits Most of them were made. You know, I've probably got thousands of pounds worth of suits that are just sitting there gathering dust.
Speaker 1:Probably you wear them every now and again.
Speaker 2:Every now and again.
Speaker 1:yeah, you wore a shirt on Monday, I think.
Speaker 2:I did wear a shirt on Monday, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did wear a shirt on Monday yeah, I think as well.
Speaker 1:The comment we get a lot from a lot of sort of the small business owners that we look after. If we say to them, say they're recruiting and they're finding it really difficult to find talent, we've said to people. We've said to a few people have you offered a work from home day? And the replies we normally get is well, no, I can't possibly do that. And we've gone well, why not? You've everything you're doing is online and they're like but what if they don't work? What? What if they don't do this? What if they don't do this? And that lack of trust one it's never going to build a good culture, absolutely your team.
Speaker 1:And two, you're going to know if they're not doing the work. They don't have to be in the office for you to know they're working. Just because they look like they're concentrating at their desk does not mean that they are um, they could be scrolling through facebook for all you know. If you can't see their screen, like but that lack of trust is, it's not good culturally because you're going to have it in the office as well and really, whether they're working from home or in the office, you need to have that trust and if you're really worried about it, set those kpis that we spoke about in a past episode. Make sure they're hitting those kpis and if they're not, because they're working from home, then you I don't know whether you can remove it or not once you've given it. Who knows? That's an hr issue.
Speaker 1:I don't understand yeah but you can certainly say you need to be hitting these kpis. They're still working for you. Whether they've taken five minutes to go put the washing on is neither here nor there. Like in the office they'd take five minutes to go get a coffee or go have a chat with a colleague. So you know that lack of trust has got to go and I think I think most businesses, if they're able because not obviously if you're manufacturing something and you need to be there physically manufacturing something, that is totally different.
Speaker 1:If you're in hospitality you need to be there, like that's a totally different kettle of fish, but in sort of you know industries where you are more online, then I think offering a work from home for your team is something you should absolutely think about. Otherwise you will not be getting the talent pool through when you're recruiting.
Speaker 2:I think one issue that we do have with people working from home is and it is a big issue particularly in our industry is youngsters coming through.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So, you know, for people that are fresh from school, training etc. I don't think they can work from home.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:So they need to understand work culture, they need to understand what's going on with clients, they need to be there, be able to access that training, which then brings into an issue whereby if someone is the person that is training that person, they need to be in as well. So you're almost taking away that flexibility and if that person isn't in all the time um, helping that person to train, it's just not going to work. Yeah, so I think that is an issue, particularly with apprentices, um in our industry, and I think we could have a whole different podcast on on um, apprentices and what this government is lacking in in supporting us as small businesses for that. But one thing us as a small business needs to try and get right is how we train the youngsters coming through. Yeah, absolutely, and if people are wanting, it's how we train the youngsters coming through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And if people are wanting that work from home flexibility, then it is using the tools Like we've got tools like Loom and Scribe. It's making sure those things are being used, and frequent phone calls and all of that stuff. If you're working from home, that is what you need to do.
Speaker 2:I watched one of your Loom videos.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, well done. I know, I think you actually watched two.
Speaker 2:I've watched two this week.
Speaker 1:They're actually quite good I've made so many loom videos this week. It's actually silly.
Speaker 1:They're quite good I sat there, listened to it thanks even mum popped around and went oh, is that is that jade and I went yeah, of course, or just listening to what she's saying so, yeah, but using tools like that, because it's perfectly, you're perfectly able to have a whole online business if you want it and still deliver that training. However, I absolutely agree with you that being in the office, you learn by osmosis, basically um, you hear things, you pick up things, just naturally. You won't get that at home. We don't offer at home working for our apprentices. For that reason, they're gonna learn much quicker in the office because they can literally just shout for help. They don't have to pick up the phone, there's no barriers to ask for help and they can um, hear what's going on, to take it in and learn, and the quicker they learn and progress then the quicker they can have that.
Speaker 1:Work from home day is how we absolutely see it so that that's why we don't offer it for our apprentices and our our trainees. However, we do offer it for anyone who's sort of qualified and fully integrated into the one accounts team, absolutely absolutely, and it's always quite funny.
Speaker 2:I remember you know, one of our competitors in our town, you know, put a um an advert out for people and uh wondered why they wasn't getting much um inquiries because they said, must work from the office. It's like really that's bonkers. You know, you're just missing out on a talent pool. We put an advert out and we had quite a lot of inquiries. So it's really weird. So there you go, we do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but things have changed quickly. So that particular firm is very traditional and you know things have changed. Yeah, absolutely so, and we are very we try and stay ahead and I think for a lot of small businesses, you've got to look at what other people are offering, especially when it comes to recruitment and things. And, like I said, if it's the trust element that you're worried about, then have those KPIs and be really hot on them. If it's the sort of that, you can't, I don't know. You're worried about the collaboration. Make sure that you've got a collaboration day in the office On a Monday. All of our team are in. That means that is the day that we have all of our collaboration meetings.
Speaker 2:Even I'm in on a Monday, even you are in on a Monday, even I'm.
Speaker 1:That means that is the day that we have all of our collaboration meetings that we meet. Even you are in on a Monday even.
Speaker 1:I'm in on a Monday, so I and I really do think that collaboration is. It's really important. And, like the other day as well, we did a. We did a hybrid meeting on the Monday, so one of our teams members had to be at home because they had an appointment and I had to do the meeting half on teams and half in person, and that is a nightmare. I don't know whether people have tried to do that, but it's really. It's like really distracting when you're trying to lead the meeting and lead people in person and lead people virtually.
Speaker 2:That is just and tell me all for being on my phone oh, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, everybody say what you think about this. So Dad just was sitting on his phone scrolling while I'm leading the meeting. One it's rude, just plain rude. Two, it's just disrespectful. Well, to me as a person, Whatever, it was very important. Was not. My friend Andy had sent me a.
Speaker 2:WhatsApp message and he said do you want to play golf on Wednesday night or Tuesday night? No, for which?
Speaker 1:I said yeah, that's great, Super rude.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought it was important.
Speaker 1:We're not allowed phones in the meeting. The whole teams are told that they're not allowed their phones.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there was another team member on their phone and I couldn't tell them to not be on their phone. If you were on your phone, well, you could we have to lead by example?
Speaker 2:oh, I can see you're telling me off again. I am, yeah, you've just raised your voice again at me you.
Speaker 1:You've brought back the feelings. So if you are a leader and you're in meetings and you are scrolling through your phone, don't do it. It's it makes people feel like this. They just won't tell you because they're probably not your daughter.
Speaker 2:Well, there you go. Anyway, I played golf it was no good on the Tuesday night.
Speaker 1:Oh well, karma. Yeah. What are the downsides to working from home, do you think?
Speaker 2:The downsides to working at home? Sometimes distraction. Sometimes, yeah, downsides to working from home. Do you think the downsides working at home? Um, sometimes distraction sometimes yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know it's sunny outside, the grass needs cutting, you know that's the sort of stuff. That's where your trust issue comes in, um, or the dogs nipping at your ankles or barking at the door, as betsy does quite regularly, um and I. I think the big downside for me sometimes working at home is getting the information. So if I've got a particular issue with a client or want a second opinion, if I'm working from home, I've got to find out where the other person is. So if they don't say on their diary where they are, that's a bit of a nightmare. And then getting hold of them If they don't say on their diary where they are, that's a bit of a nightmare. And then getting hold of them through our phone system etc. Sometimes that is the collaboration. Part of it is a bit of an issue, and also for me and for other team members, is that sometimes you work too long at home.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so you know, I can quite easily get involved with something and be working, yeah, maybe have some dinner and then work up till nine to ten o'clock at night. So you know, we don't encourage that with our team and I think that's that's a danger, um on working from home, in my opinion. But then again, if you want to work at night and you might want a couple of hours during the day off, that's fine as well, but you've got to let other people know. You know, I know we've we've had instances where some of our team members have gone, oh so, and so as was work, was sent that email at 11 o'clock last night, you know, and we just need to understand what they're doing yeah, no, I agree, and I think those boundaries can absolutely be pushed if you're working from home.
Speaker 1:I mean, I normally start work pretty much as soon as I get up, but then I will take an hour to do my exercises and get ready later in the morning, probably. As all you know people who run a business, we all work extra, but we get benefits in other areas and time in other places, so it doesn't matter. But I think those boundaries can easily be crossed when you're working from home. And also I can get a little stir crazy. Sometimes I do like to have a chat and when I go into the office I like to have a chat with people, which is half the problem of me going into the office, because I get distracted and I don't get my work done. But sometimes I need the social aspect just to you know, keep me going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but sometimes when you go back into the office you've had a few days off. You then get literally as you walk through the door you get bombarded with questions and I think sometimes people forget that actually you still have work to do and some of the questions they could have answered themselves, and I know that's normal life.
Speaker 2:But if they've been storing it up because they've not seen you all week, that is also an issue and then you start avoiding going in to the office because you know you're just going to get a load of questions, so why go in and waste the morning with a load of questions? So I think us as a business as well have got to understand that culture and maybe find a way of how we deal with that, and I think we are trying to deal with that at the moment yeah, I think that we are as well.
Speaker 1:So I think every business is unique. On this front, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, to be honest, because some businesses they're going to need to be in like if you're a restaurant, you're going to need to be in, um, but some businesses, like ours, hybrid working works really well and then for some other business, fully remote, completely works. So there's no right or wrong answer. I think that there's always a debate on the telly and it's always ah, should you work from home? Should you do this? I think every business is unique. Yeah, and you should. You should definitely consider offering people working from home. If you're in sort of our sort of space, yeah, but otherwise you're just going to lose talent.
Speaker 1:Otherwise you're going to lose talent and you're not going to get the talent in absolutely um and your productivity might go up, because we definitely found that in covid, our productivity went up.
Speaker 2:Well, we grew what?
Speaker 1:67 percent in covid yeah, and that was when we were fully remote. So you know that trust issue. If you've got that trust issue, just think of that and then you know it's worth a try, even if you do it on a trial basis for somebody maybe Although check with your HR people that you can do that, but I think that you can do it on a trial basis.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I think so you don't let me anywhere near HR.
Speaker 1:No, ask your HR people. Yeah, on a trial basis. I don't know, I think so. You don't let me anywhere near hr. No, ask your hr people. Yeah, anyway, our unfiltered minute. So I'm going to start with mine today well, okay, it's all about you yeah, so my unfiltered minute is about the changes at companies house.
Speaker 1:um, as we're talking to all of our small business owner friends, um, this is something that you all need to know. So, basically, all directors and persons with significant control PSCs they need to be verified now. Pscs, pscs they need to be verified at Companies House now, which basically means that you need to have an identification check completed and then you need to submit a form to Companies House and you need to get a code. So we've emailed all of our clients this week, so people are well able to do this themselves.
Speaker 2:We've given them instructions for that, haven't we?
Speaker 1:Yes, we have, although Companies House updated their guidance since sending that email out. So basically, they said in the guidance to us that you needed a to do it yourself, you had to have a piece of identification with a biometric chip in, so basically like a modern passport. However, they're now including driving licenses as well which do not have the biometric chip, which do not have the biometric chip, which one of our clients very, very kindly told me that that was wrong in my email, which I actually did really appreciate because in the guidance that I read, it did not say that they would accept that.
Speaker 2:So this is another government-led agency that changes the rules after it goes through umpteen million think tanks and doesn't understand what it's actually doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they basically I don't think they'd updated it on the guidance for the ASCPs, which is what we are. We are basically, we're registered and regulated to be able to perform these checks on people's behalf, and that wasn't up to date.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's the first time I've heard that. It just doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 1:No, but it just makes us seem silly. I had to go back to the client and say, oh, they've changed the guidance. I'll update it on our end. But either way, people can do it themselves with a passport and driving licence or driving licence, or they can get somebody like an accountant like us who's registered as an ACSP, or a solicitor that's registered as an ACSP, or a solicitor that's registered as an ACSP to do it.
Speaker 2:I think you can also go to the post office if you're struggling yeah, but didn't we have a client that said went to the local post office? And they didn't know what it was they were charging not a lot of money to do it. Our client walks into the post office. Sounds like a bit of a joke, doesn't? It, it does man walks into a bar ouch, so that was my dad joke.
Speaker 1:I just didn't even catch it, I've become immune so.
Speaker 2:So it goes in the post office. He says I want to do this, blah blah, blah blah. The person in the post office said I haven't got a clue.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Yep, exactly, but it's okay, it's in the guidance for Companies House and it says that you can go and do this. Yeah, but, yeah, but you can't.
Speaker 1:No, and this is all because the guidance doesn't actually come in until the so companies' houses aren't quite, it's not all in line yet, the process isn't quite ironed out yet, it's essentially in beta stage.
Speaker 2:I am so looking forward to making tax digits all in.
Speaker 1:April. Yeah well, we'll do a whole separate conversation on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just mad, makes our life hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but essentially for the people wanting to do their company's house thing, you now need a code that basically says you've been identified either by company's house or by someone like us to be a director. You are a person, you are who you say you are, and that is for every single director and PSC.
Speaker 1:So, we had one client who thought that it was just one per company. It's not, it's got to be everybody, because it's it's trying to stop fraud. So yeah, but that is something if you're a small business you need to do. If you've got any questions about it, just pop me an email and I'll be happy to help.
Speaker 2:Cool, um, anyway, your unfiltered minute my unfiltered minute and this leads on to what our podcast is about next week. But I think um AI we've had so much going on oh AI is going to kill accountants. Um AI is going to ruin the solicitors of this world, etc. Etc.
Speaker 2:Now I'm old enough to remember when we used to do manual bookkeeping my god we had a system called Kalamazoo I actually don't even know how yeah you used to write a check in the, in the in the book, and the total column would go through a little bit of carbon paper. You put a total there and and who you've written it to, that was all carboned and that then goes across on a big spreadsheet and it's all manual. That was how bookkeeping was done when I was very young must have had to have charged a fortune for the amount of time you spent on it.
Speaker 2:And then lord sugar came up, invented the amstrad pc, made that affordable for business, and then sage had a product called sage sovereign. Um, and all on big floppy disks that we put on that and that was going to ruin accountants' life Absolutely ruin. It Didn't need accountants didn't need bookkeepers, etc.
Speaker 2:So what did we do as a business? We learnt Sage inside out, we marketed it, we sold Sage as a product and we taught people how to use it. So what are we doing now? Chatgppt has come along. That is an immense product, you know. We were just talking about before we started. We're going to talk about on the next podcast yes, what are?
Speaker 2:we going to do as a business, we're going to do courses, we're going to embrace it, we're going to apply it to clients and we are going to be absolutely pushing this um, because it is there to enhance your business, to work with you, and it's not just a tool, it's part of your team no, and I think, and we're going to talk about it next week, but still people are so scared of ai.
Speaker 1:They're like it's going to take over. It's not. It will change things. It's already changed things yeah things will change and evolve, but it will not take over. People still want people at the end of the day. People don't want robots everywhere.
Speaker 2:I don't know my lawnmower's going in the garden.
Speaker 1:No, but you didn't have someone else cutting your grass before.
Speaker 2:No, but I should have done Exactly. We didn't have a cleaner either, but we've got a robot now.
Speaker 1:Anyway, people do want people still. For example, at Tesco, they could have taken out all of their in-person checkouts, but they haven't, because people still like to talk to people. There is a robot that can do that function, but they haven't taken all of the people out. So you've got to look at it as a society thing as well as the AI, and the AI is amazing and you've got to use it, otherwise you're going to be behind.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 1:And you know for what I'm going to say to you what.
Speaker 2:Can we have a course next week and invite people to it and get people to show them all the swap?
Speaker 1:Next week? Yeah no, why not? Don Next week? Yeah no, why not? It doesn't take much, does it? I haven't quite utilised the AI yet to make me have time. We can do one at some point. I promise For all of our listeners out there, we will do a course, this month yeah. Oh, you're such a pain.
Speaker 2:I know this is how our conversations work everyone. There you go. Watch this space for our ai course, which we'll announce next week on our podcast, um. Have a great weekend everyone okay, goodbye everybody.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in. I've forgotten what I say. Don't forget, forget to subscribe, rate, share our podcast and we'll see you next week for our AI episode of Business with the Dollos. Goodbye, bye.