Business with the Donnos
Join the Donno family each week as we share the real highs and lows of running a business together—mixing practical advice with unfiltered stories from behind the scenes of family life and entrepreneurship.
Email jade@1accounts.co.uk with any questions or just DM or comment on our episodes!
Business with the Donnos
Your Business Can't Afford to Say Yes to Everything
Have you ever felt guilty saying "no" to a potential client or business opportunity? You're not alone. As business owners, we're conditioned to chase every pound and please every customer—but what if this approach is actually holding you back?
In this candid conversation, we pull back the curtain on one of the most challenging yet powerful business skills: the ability to say "no." We share real examples from our own practice, including the recent decision to turn down a client worth £8,500 annually because they simply weren't the right fit. While painful in the moment, this decision created space for better opportunities that aligned with our values and business model.
We explore how setting clear boundaries—from payment terms to communication expectations—doesn't just protect your sanity but actually strengthens client relationships and team morale. When we immediately disengaged from a client who was disrespectful to our staff, we sent a powerful message about what we stand for.
For those struggling with the guilt of refusal, we offer practical strategies to reframe "no" as a positive choice rather than a rejection. It's not about turning people away; it's about saying "yes" to what matters most. We discuss how outsourcing certain tasks (like our new PA arrangement) can help maintain these boundaries without burning bridges.
Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, mastering the art of the strategic "no" might be the most important business skill you'll ever develop. It's not just about avoiding burnout—it's about creating a business that truly serves your goals, values, and vision.
Like, follow and subscribe to join our ongoing conversation about building a business that works for you, not the other way around.
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Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk about family business and everything in between. I'm your host, jade Dono, and I'm here with my dad, paul Dono, and this week's topic is the power of saying no, no, no, the claw.
Speaker 2:Or the power of saying Dad, why are you doing that? You've got to say no.
Speaker 1:Yes, so the power of having a child.
Speaker 2:The power of having a child to tell you no.
Speaker 1:So I've written notes for this podcast, and I think the first thing I've written down is a question, which is what could saying no free you up to do?
Speaker 2:I think we can all guess what he's gonna say here well, if you say no to all your work and I can play golf all the time, but that doesn't allow me to pay my green fees no, it doesn't so, um, what does it do?
Speaker 2:well, it actually frees your mind, because normally the reason that it leads to a no is because, in our case, where we have clients, if we have a client for argument's sake that we're having an issue with, etc. And we're doing so much work for them for you know, basically too much work for them, um, and there being a bit of a pain, we've all got those clients that are a pain, or or had clients that are a pain, or customers that are a pain, and then just saying no to that, that actually frees up your headspace, not just your time, because you're always worried about it and you know really you shouldn't be acting for them, but you're just trying to do the right thing, but actually no is probably the best thing yeah, so yeah, it's, uh, it's um, it's a.
Speaker 2:Really, if you're starting in business, it's a really hard thing, especially when you're trying to chase the money.
Speaker 1:It's a really hard thing to say no I, I think it is and I think people really struggle to say no, especially me, especially you. But people really, really struggle because, especially when you're running a business, you want the money to come in. And say no to people feels wrong. You really want to please people, you want to please your clients and your customers.
Speaker 2:Pay the wages.
Speaker 1:Pay the wages, but sometimes Pay the green fees. Fees, oh my goodness, but sometimes saying no is the best thing for you and the other person. It's not always the right thing to do to say yes to everything, but I think there's a bit of guilt there. When you say no, you feel like you feel a bit guilty towards that person and I think that stops a lot of people from saying no.
Speaker 2:And also reputation. If you're saying no to things, people go oh, don't go to them, they're too expensive. It's only because you've probably said no to them. Well, maybe or don't go to them because of this. It's probably because actually, the business owner has probably said no, we're not dealing with you, you're not our type of customer, not our type of client.
Speaker 1:But this could also be things like you've said no because you're at capacity, so you can't deliver the service that you want to, because you can't fulfill it, so you're being nicer. And I think there's a lot of belief around like that if you say no, that you're seen to be unhelpful or rude, and I think that's only if you are unhelpful or rude yeah um.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know in one accounts we've said no to new business coming in before um, just purely because they potentially weren't the right fit or something. But then, instead of just saying a point blank no, we've said, um, I'm really sorry, we don't have the capacity at the moment. However, we've got this contact who would really, um, do a really great job for you, so it hasn't been a unhelpful or rude um, no, it's been a very polite no. There are ways round doing things. Yeah, why?
Speaker 2:are you? Looking at me like that that is a very, because obviously we don't video this, do we?
Speaker 1:No, so they haven't seen all your hand gestures. There was a lot of hand gestures, your very lovey type, you know.
Speaker 2:Musical theatre, you know. Oh, we haven't said no, with the big wavy of the arms oh well, someone has to be eccentric, and that someone is me so yeah, so, um, you know, we, I mean we said no, didn't we, on basically taking on tax returns we did for about a year yes, because we just didn't have the skill set in-house.
Speaker 2:Well, we had the skill set in-house, but they were dealing with other clients stuff and we just didn't have that capacity or that expertise really to take on the more complex tax returns. It always ended up on my lap. Yeah, I just ended up letting people down, didn't I? Because I just didn't get around to it yeah so we actually made a conscious effort to say we're not doing tax returns we did um, but you know, whilst we said no, then we got.
Speaker 2:We've got the resource in now, so we've got josh yeah, and we're saying yes to tax returns. But when you had a call, you know, recently, our tax return pricing might be a little bit too much for someone that's just looking for a very simple tax return. But we have the expertise to take it even further and we price accordingly. I mean to take to do a one off tax return. Even it's really simple, you know. I mean, how many steps are there to take that one person on as a client?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so our onboarding process, because we're regulated, is an 85 step process for one person, um, and so it's a huge amount of job. It's probably a day's work just to get them on to our systems. So that is factored into the fee, um, and if, if we're not the right fit, then it's well within that person's rights as well to say no, and we're not offended, we no, not at all we, you know we we like to set expectations now you know, because absolutely we have to do that regulated part um, and I know we.
Speaker 2:I've talked about fred in the shed, haven't I? You? Know fred in the shed will probably do it. Um, for you know less because they're not vat registered etc. But then there's not a whole wealth of you know, expertise and support around, should you need anything in the future. So there are times when you've got to say no if they're not the right fit.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, and I think I think as well um with your business. If you're running a completely different business and you're, like jade paul, I don't run an accountancy practice, so this has nothing to do with me it it does you've got to see where you position yourself in the in your market and know exactly what your client base should be and say no to those who don't fit.
Speaker 2:It's really important, yeah and those that are not, and you know for well, are just going to miss you about.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know the examples we have so many times with our, with our clients. You know they might provide a product and for argument's sake they sell their product for, let's say, a thousand pounds and they bought their product from a supplier but let's say a 500 pound. And they bought their product from a supplier, but let's say a 500 pound. And they're really chuffed. They've got a 500 pound profit in there, but the person they've sold it to they know full well won't pay for three months.
Speaker 2:But they're having to pay their supplier straight away yeah so why on earth would you take on that business when you know that you're just going to be messed about being paid? And whilst it's great to put on the top line and have a £500 profit on the product, you're financing that and you're not a bank. So if people don't want to agree to your terms, then no, don't deal with it. And it's really hard to say that. Um, you know, we operate with direct debit, don't we?
Speaker 2:we do yeah our fees are up front, um, it's all direct debit. We've we've learned the hard way about giving credit, having work in progress locked up. We don't do that, we do um direct debit. And we've had people say well, we don't do direct debit, we don't do that, we'll do it when the job's finished, you know, and this might be thousands of pounds worth of work uh-huh and as much as it hurts, we've just said no we have because, as well, we've built like a business model and the same as other businesses.
Speaker 1:You'll have a model for how you work, how you operate and our model works, that we're on direct debit. We don't have the resources to be chasing funds all the time. We haven't built that into our business model because we have built a model where we don't need to do that. Yeah, other people will have that model and then you know, people go to them. But it's really important you stick within the parameters of what you've built, because as soon as you have someone outside of it, it's so difficult to run your business effectively and you'll find that you'll spend so much time on that one person and you'll almost lose the enthusiasm for the people who are all running in the system and you'll think why am I Like? I mean, you used to do it all the time. It used to drive me absolutely bonkers. You used to bring people in and I built up all the processes. The team all know what they're doing. And then Dad used to be like oh, let's do this Right way, outside of what we're doing?
Speaker 2:I don't understand that. I would never have broken your processes.
Speaker 1:You absolutely did, but it never worked, did it?
Speaker 2:well, it did work. It never worked. It works in my head, but it never worked. The client didn't know what we didn't but you just didn't know how to deal with it. I can't help it.
Speaker 1:I didn't give you the information and the instructions anyway, I think as well we've got a touch on what the cost is of always saying yes as well. If you say yes to everything, you're gonna get burnt out and overwhelmed. There's just no getting around it.
Speaker 2:You will yeah, and, and a lot of people that say yes to everything are often supplying a cheaper price because they're having to say yes to everything, because they're having to chase it all the time. If you, you know, set your service or your product at a competitive price, of course, but one that suits you and your business, that you can service your customers, you know, then you need to stick to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know the amount of you know, over the years, stuff where we've said, oh yeah, we'll just chuck that tax return in for free. And I know that you go, oh, stop doing that. But you just need to say no, I'm sorry, it's extra, you know, and that sort of stuff, yeah, because it doesn't do you any. You know any favours. You know we want to take an apprentice on later on in the year. If we, you know, sort of go, oh yeah, we're going to take that job on and we're going to burn ourselves out and we have too much work and actually it's low paying work and you know, etc. Etc, we wouldn't be able to take an apprentice on, we wouldn't be able to help our, our staff grow as well, our team grow. Um, you have to say no properly. A good example, I think, is very recently where we've had a client not take our advice and they've done a lot of stuff themselves. They want us to act for them in a different capacity and, as much as it really really hurts, we've said no.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You did persuade me a bit on that, though I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was one of those really awkward conversations when dad's like but but the money? Yeah, and I've gone, but but it's worth what.
Speaker 2:That was probably worth about 700 pound a month and we said no, yes eight and a half grand a year nearly, but it was the right thing to do, I know but even so, that that hurts and that hurts to say no at that level it does you know we've built a business up that we're able to say no at that level, but equally, they're not going to time waste us anymore absolutely, and I think this, this concept of saying no as well, it's not just business, it's personal as well.
Speaker 1:If you're running a business, you've got a lot of things going on Personal.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say no to your mother, am I? You've got to pick your right nose.
Speaker 1:No, I don't.
Speaker 2:I'm sure Josh don't say no to you, I'm sure he doesn't. And if he does, he's on the other end of the phone on the cricket pitch you know what I mean, though.
Speaker 1:You can't say yes to everything in your life. If your business is important to you and you want to grow it and you want to put the time in, then don't say yes to every single social engagement you've got, like you need to make sure that you're prioritising what you want to prioritise yeah, I say yes to playing golf, don't I, you do.
Speaker 1:But that's what you want to do and that's fine. But to say yes to that, you have to probably say no to other things so you've just got to know what you want to prioritise?
Speaker 2:I don't because we've now got a PA. I now I now message Nicole and she says no to the rest of the things that are in there. But Wogan was great on Tuesday oh my goodness, okay.
Speaker 1:So if you're worried about saying no, which I think a lot of people are I know I struggle with it, dad definitely still struggles with it I think it's it's worth reframing how, how you think of the word no it sounds very fluffy and dad's like rolling his eyes at me right now, but reframing how you think about it, I think, is important. So you're you're not necessarily saying no, you're saying yes to what matters most. Um, what? Yes, you're prioritizing the right things. Um, I listened to a, a ted talk not that long ago. I can't remember who who did it. Um, ted, no, it wasn't ted, okay, it was a lady and she was a.
Speaker 2:Called Ted.
Speaker 1:No, she was a lady and she worked in a hospital, in the ER, but she was doing a talk on I think it was on prioritising things and she was saying that she wasn't saying no. She was just saying it's not my priority right now Because sometimes, like she would have more work than she could handle in the ER and she had to prioritise very important things. And it wasn't that she was saying no, because she said, if she thought that she was saying no to some of these things, she couldn't handle that. So she, it was more of a I can't prioritize that right now, I'm not prioritizing that right now.
Speaker 1:And she reframed that and then she felt a lot better excellent yeah, dad doesn't really get all this, so I hope listeners at home I don't get it okay. I've said no a few times recently you have, and I actually think as well, people respect you more for saying no than taking on stuff you can't handle. Yeah, yeah yeah okay, so when?
Speaker 2:it's a bit like when you want to go 280 yards with a five iron and you know you can only hit it at 170 yards. So I say, no, I'll just do it shorter, is it not like that?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know. I really hope our listeners like golf. So much golf chat. We're no longer a business podcast. We are let's talk about golf, baby. Oh my goodness. We're no longer a business podcast. We are let's talk about golf, baby, oh my goodness. So, dad, when should you say no?
Speaker 2:When you phone up and say the podcast is in 10 minutes and I go no.
Speaker 1:I haven't done that.
Speaker 2:I know, but that's when you should say no.
Speaker 1:That is when you should say no, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you just if it doesn't fit in with your business, if it doesn't fit in with your model and it goes outside of what you set up as a business, then you must say no. Yes, if there's an opportunity that needs looking at and it's exciting and you think it's worth doing, but we had an opportunity a couple of weeks ago. Whether it's going to come off or not, we don't know. You know we could quite easily have said no to that and lost out on that opportunity. That will be a huge amount of work if it comes across. However, you've got to, you've got to. You know, look, got to. You know, look at things. And I and I look at, obviously, richard Branson. You know you read his books, et cetera, and and and he'll say, you know, just say yes to it and find out how you do it after that. So there are times when you say yes, that you know are outside your comfort zone.
Speaker 2:So when we're not saying say saying, say no to everything, we're just saying look, you know, if it's, if it doesn't feel right, it is a no, if it's an exciting opportunity, even if you don't know how to do it, then yes, is, um, is is where you're, where you're at. So you've just got to. You know, weigh it up and down, um, and uh, yeah, it takes a while, especially with businesses starting out, to say no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think this extends as well to setting boundaries as well. So I know you had your birthday.
Speaker 2:Did I.
Speaker 1:You did, yeah, like a couple of weeks ago you had your birthday.
Speaker 2:It was last Monday.
Speaker 1:And you had said to a client I've got the day off. I did. You said I've got the day off. I did. You said I've got the day off, I'm not. I'm not responding to anything because I I am out for the day it's my birthday. I'm having the day off. You still got messages. And what did we tell you?
Speaker 2:you said do not reply to that, and I was going to yes.
Speaker 1:so dad had set a boundary. He'd'd said I'm not doing it, and then the client had pushed that boundary and dad was going to let them. And we're like, no, you've got to say no, turn WhatsApp notifications off.
Speaker 2:I didn't know I could do that for that person, but you did Give an eight hour delay Great.
Speaker 1:Yes, but he did. You didn't reply. I don't think. No, I didn't reply. You told us you didn't In fact they emailed me later on.
Speaker 2:They messaged me later on in the day and said they'd sorted it out and have a great birthday.
Speaker 1:There you go, yeah, so sometimes you have to. If you set a boundary and you've said no, you have to make sure you stick to it, otherwise people aren't going to respect you. When you do put something in place, it's the same as if you've got a team. You're going on holiday and you don't want them to contact you. Make sure that's stuck too, because as soon as you start contacting them, that's it yeah forever.
Speaker 2:You're never having a break I think the smartphones have got a lot to say on that, because when I was first in business, mobile phones were around. Because my first business I was a Motorola flip phone. Great Couldn't take email on it, it was just a phone Email didn't exist.
Speaker 1:It was analogue, not visual as well.
Speaker 2:See, okay, blue, you was very impressed with it, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:I was. Yeah, you was.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I was so, anyways, I always used to leave my phone at home and only take mum's phone, and no one got hold of me. But with smart phones, because there's so much on them, because I can mow the garden, I can book my tea- time I can hoover the house as well whilst I'm sitting on there.
Speaker 2:Book your tea time. Yeah, book my tea time. I can hoover the house as well whilst I'm sitting on a beach in Mexico, so they've got so much on them. But the distraction there is that your emails is on them, etc. Etc. But I've got to say, even though it's only been a week, we can see that that is now being moved by Nicole. Week, we can see that that is now being moved by nicole. You know our outsource pa, and that's going to work really, really well for us absolutely and that also when clients send me messages etc.
Speaker 2:Because some still have my personal mobile. Um, when they do now say I want to meet him this week, I just now move it to nicole and she deals with it absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Having the pa is is is a bit of a game changer for for us on yeah, on that respect, um, because it means we can say no less or ignore people less well yeah, people are getting a reply and also they are being put into the diary under someone else's direction. Not me trying to move around stuff that I'm supposed to be focusing on absolutely yeah, and because I have access to a car so I can say to her, like dad needs to do that, yeah, it's important, rather than dad being like no no no I don't need to do that.
Speaker 2:Why do I need to look and spend, concentrate on this person's affairs which I do need to and then I sort of slot a meeting in as we do so? I don't do that well, I do that a lot less now you're learning. I'm learning and I get told off a lot.
Speaker 1:It does. Yeah, I don't know whether you can tell.
Speaker 2:I'm sure the listener out there can really feel my pain and they're going poor paul I don't. I don't think anyone's saying poor, poor paul I know it's not fair, because they always say poor jade, and I feel sorry for you, jade I don't get it I really don't get it um.
Speaker 1:So I've written down some notes of when to say no as well, which I'll just read out. So I've put if you get requests that don't align with your goals and values, that's really, really important. Um, work that drains you and then leads to resentment for doing it, that that again super important. You don't want to decide to do some work which you then hate and then you hate the person because you've got the work I just give it to josh poor josh and then you don't.
Speaker 1:You also don't want to do things you're tempted to say yes to just out of guilt or obligation. Um, it's. That's a really difficult one, because sometimes, especially in our profession, we do get people we just want to help, yeah, and sometimes you've really got to pick who you can and can't. Yeah, and as much as we'd like to help everyone, you can't. You can't do it. Um, so we've covered loads of my points, so I've also put that with saying no. The more you practice, the easier it becomes, and I think that is the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, the more you really know what your boundaries are and know what you're going to say no to, then it just becomes part of your process and it's not difficult anymore.
Speaker 2:The first couple of times might be difficult, but then after that you're like this is just what I do now, um well, yeah, and I think you know the stage that our business is at is that saying no actually doesn't have a huge impact, even though you might turn down a lot of work. That's additional work for us. But you know we've turned that job down we mentioned earlier and yet, you know, today we sat down with someone and we've actually said yes to a job that is going to be a lot more profitable and a lot better and the team will like to work on it.
Speaker 1:So you know, to be quite honest, it allows you that opportunity, that headspace to go out there and say yes to someone that is a perfect fit absolutely, and one thing we haven't mentioned is if you have a client or a um customer who's not very nice because we've had it people who aren't very nice pizza clients, no, not just them like People who aren't very nice Pizza clients. No, not just them Like people who aren't actually like nice people who are horrible to the staff. Horrible.
Speaker 2:Well, we won't take that.
Speaker 1:Well, we won't, and we've disengaged clients before. We had someone swear at a member of staff before and we disengaged them straight away, no questions asked, because although the money might be rightly nice, they don't fit your values. No, not at all, and our staff are a lot more valuable than they are, so exactly, at the end of the day, that yeah, I think I know the person you're talking about and that just isn't on.
Speaker 1:We're not having that no, and the that person then will you know, know that what they've done is wrong, and also the team. Your team will know that you respect and value them as well as members of the team. If you are willing to sacrifice work because that person was not very nice and you've got to have it for yourself as well, self-respect for yourself. If somebody's not nice to you, you hate working for them, just cut your losses. There'll be someone else out there for you to to replace that.
Speaker 2:We've got lovely clients, so you know we absolutely do we just won't tolerate that. I mean, you know, don't get me wrong some people have bad days, but you know, certainly when anyone's acting like that, it doesn't matter how bad a day you've got, you don't take it out on our team.
Speaker 1:No, no, you don't, it's just not, it's not on, and I think, as business owners, you've got to make sure you're protecting your team from that and making sure you are saying no to people who just aren't very nice. Yeah, I think I use different phrasing when it's not on the podcast. Anyway, have you got anything else to say about the art of saying no?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's so terrible. I think the listeners feel my pain. I take that as a no, not, maybe not okay, um, right down to our unfiltered minute. So you've got an exciting thing on on monday, haven't you?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, the rugby season starts on monday first of september, which is also funny enough, the same. You know that date, the 1st September, is also my wedding anniversary.
Speaker 1:Oh is it. What a clinky dink.
Speaker 2:I know. So mum said there's no way you're ever going to forget our wedding anniversary because it's on the same day as the start of the rugby season. And she's right. I've never, I've never, ever forgot the start of the rugby season. And she's right, I've never, I've never, ever forgot the start of the rugby season. So I don't. I do need to get a card, because there's no blooming card shops in town now. So I've got to go somewhere and get that. Um, but it's 35 years, 35 years to get less for life. Um, I think that's what one said. I'll just put it out there. So we go rather than sort of get presents, because we kind of get most of the stuff we want as we go along. So we're going for a bit of a treat. We are going to Le Manoir, raymond Blanc's restaurant and hotel, staying there the night, and, yeah, we're really looking forward to that. And no FOMO, you can't come.
Speaker 1:Well, I gathered that, as it's your Staying there the night and, yeah, we're really looking forward to that. And no FOMO, you can't come Well.
Speaker 2:I gathered that, as it's your wedding anniversary, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I haven't got FOMO this time until you send me the food pictures.
Speaker 2:We will send you the food pictures and the wine list.
Speaker 1:Oh boo, oh well, happy anniversary for Monday.
Speaker 2:Thank you, look forward to my present. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, oh well happy anniversary for Monday.
Speaker 1:Thank you, look forward to my present mmhmm, mmhmm, mmhmm. Make sure to get that yeah, to be right best text, katie um anyway my unfiltered minute moving on, it's all about you it's about bounce bounce about bounce. So I go to bounce every week um with my friend Danielle.
Speaker 2:What is bounce?
Speaker 1:So bounce. It's an exercise class that you do on a little mini trampoline and it's all like cardio you bounce.
Speaker 2:Do you do like backflips and everything like that?
Speaker 1:No, it's like a mini trampoline.
Speaker 2:So it's not a proper trampoline.
Speaker 1:But you do. It's an exercise class, it's not like gymnastics.
Speaker 2:Why do they use a treadmill?
Speaker 1:Because it's low impact. Then you can do more cardio with less impact Right, hurt your knees less. There's loads of benefits to doing it that way over, like a Zumba class. How?
Speaker 2:many times have you fallen off?
Speaker 1:Never.
Speaker 2:Never, never, fallen off, never, never, never.
Speaker 1:Never fallen off, so this is a big misconception. So people who go to bounce for the first time, they always think I'm either going to fall off or I'm going to wet myself. Neither of those things have happened to anyone I have seen in the class, so don't worry about it. If you're thinking about going, just go.
Speaker 2:Why would you think you wet yourself?
Speaker 1:People do.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:I think it's a woman thing. I think that's how they pee, either way. Either way, if you're thinking of going to bounce and you're not going because of one of those two reasons, just go, you'll be fine, don't worry about it. Anyway, what I was going to say is I go every week with my friend danielle. However, last week I did cancel and, um, the week before we went earlier in the week, so it'd been ages and we'd had a really full-on day at work yesterday, hadn't we? I started early and then we had meeting after meeting. After meeting, after meeting, we had 10 minutes for lunch and I was frazzled by the time I got out. I didn't want to go to bounce, but obviously my friend's there, so I'm not gonna let my friend down. So I went and I have to say afterwards I felt so much better, which I think just because you didn't wet yourself it's because, yeah, if I'd have wet myself.
Speaker 1:I'd be really embarrassing, but I think it's just. It's just a note to say like exercise although I'm like I don't really exercise, isn't really my favorite thing to do, but sometimes you're so sporty at school so sporty.
Speaker 1:I hate sports, but I think it's really important to do some things for yourself, whether that be exercising or, I don't know, reading a book whatever you do to calm your mind after a busy day at work. I think it's really important to do that because I think, had I have stayed at home, I'd have just been grumpy all evening, whereas I went, cleared my head and it was I was nice.
Speaker 2:After that. Good, josh had an hour of peace, so he was happy.
Speaker 1:I think he was probably grateful I'd left, but these things happen. But I needed to get. I needed something to break the the work cycle, because we get so stuck in and I think, as business owners, everyone gets really stuck in and it's like it's all you can think about. So you need something to break that sometimes to help you like calm absolutely so yeah, that was my unfiltered minute well done do you have anything else to say?
Speaker 2:no, not really.
Speaker 1:Um, no, okay, no, no, no, no well, thank you for listening to business with the donos um. If you have liked our podcast, please like, follow and subscribe. Send in any questions that you have and we will read them out on our podcast, but for now, I'll see you next week. Goodbye.