Business with the Donnos
Join the Donno family each week as we share the real highs and lows of running a business together—mixing practical advice with unfiltered stories from behind the scenes of family life and entrepreneurship.
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Business with the Donnos
Breaking the System: Why Processes Matter
"Breaking the System: Why Processes Matter" explores the transformative power of well-designed business processes through the candid lens of a father-daughter business team. When Paul initially built his accountancy practice, everything remained locked in his head - a common entrepreneurial trap that creates an invisible ceiling on growth. Enter Jade, who implemented systematic processes that helped triple the business.
The episode reveals how proper processes aren't just about organisation but serve as the foundation for sustainable scaling. Through personal anecdotes and hard-earned wisdom, Jade and Paul discuss how implementing their 85-step onboarding process ensures nothing falls through the cracks - from technical requirements to sending new clients celebration cake. They share how technology tools like Carbon, Asana, and Loom support their systems while emphasising that processes should remain flexible enough to adapt to unique situations and evolving business needs.
What makes this conversation particularly relatable is Paul's honest admission of sometimes avoiding the very processes Jade implements - a dynamic many business partnerships will recognise. Their playful banter illuminates a crucial truth: even the most process-resistant entrepreneurs eventually see the value in systems that create consistency, reduce stress, and enable growth. Whether you're just starting out or looking to break through a growth plateau, this episode provides practical insights on creating processes that support rather than suffocate your business vision.
Subscribe to Business with Swoey for more candid conversations about family business dynamics and practical strategies to overcome common entrepreneurial challenges. Have you implemented processes that transformed your business? We'd love to hear your story!
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Welcome to Business with Swoey family business and everything in between. I'm your host, jade Arnaud, and I'm here with my dad, paul Arnaud. It's me, and we're going to be talking about processes.
Speaker 2:Processes. Oh, my favourite subject.
Speaker 1:Your favourite subject because you're so, so good at them.
Speaker 2:I am, I'm really good at them.
Speaker 1:It's your speciality, it is.
Speaker 2:Give me a process and I'll break it.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, you'll work out where the flaw is and make sure to hit it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even if there isn't a flaw, I'll find it. You will, or create it.
Speaker 1:Or create it. Yeah, Just ignore the process altogether. That's normally your.
Speaker 2:Oh, I wouldn't. Well, if the process was robust enough, then you wouldn't be able to ignore it, would you? Ah, it's so annoying. Um so, dad, why do processes actually matter? I'm intrigued to know your thoughts on this. So obviously you don't really need a process, do you just keep it all in your head as the business owner, and then?
Speaker 1:you just muddle along.
Speaker 2:But, joking aside, you can only muddle along so far. So you do need to have a process that enables you to scale your business.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I'm not, you were right.
Speaker 1:I know I was right. So a bit of context on where we're coming from in this conversation. Dad grew one account to a point, didn't you? To where yeah you grew it to a point I did, and then he got a. You got a bit stuck because it was all in your head, it was, and all in everyone else's head yeah and but we survived you did survive, but you couldn't really get any further because, like there's only so much one person can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I came on board. Oh, look at me. Yes, I put processes in place and I think what? We've tripled the business.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So it wasn't bad, was it?
Speaker 1:Not bad so far, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it wasn't bad, was it not bad? And just testament? Uh, processes, work and processes are the key, and that's not just accountancy, that is the case for all business. You, you might I mean you might get really far with no processes, just by luck, but having the processes, you would get further. Yeah, there's, or be less stressed, but one or the other well, and the other thing is, you can also.
Speaker 2:You can scale the business yes so, you know, whilst we might triple the business since you came on board and it's not all you, by the way, just saying just the process allowed us, you know, can't give you all the credit, you know I'll take it though I know so, but it does allow you to scale. So we're looking at the moment at our next growth spurt. We believe we can double or triple our size on the processes we've got, but we're always evolving because technology is changing, isn't it so much?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I think that's really important to note is that your processes will never be finished. You'll do something and then it might need changing, and that's really important to note is that your processes will never be finished. You'll do something and then like it might need changing and that's OK. It's OK to change it. With technology changing, with the AI, with different people, you're going to need to keep evolving those processes and and that is fine, it's not that you make something and then it's stuck forever, but it is really really important and even if you don't want to scale your business because not everyone wants to scale having good processes gives less stress to you because you know everything's being done how you want it in the right way people are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are being built. You, you know everything is happening without you having to micromanage, yeah, and that's really really important. So, even if you don't want to scale, having processes in place is really really important. Um, and it'll free up your headspace as well, yeah, I mean, I think we've spoken to a lot of business owners where they just they've got so many things on the go that they cannot focus on one thing, or they can't focus on the scale, and if they do want to scale, they can't focus on that because they're so in the business having to do little minute tasks. Yeah, when just a good process Can help, it Can help it.
Speaker 2:And you know we've had instances where people have done little tiny jobs but because their processes aren't good enough, they just can't be bothered to then go back and build the odd 50 quid here and the odd 50 quid there.
Speaker 1:But that soon adds up.
Speaker 2:You know, do that every day and that's a lot of money. Yeah, absolutely, um and and we've seen that, you know, we've seen people go oh yeah, we'll go out and you know, we'll fix that tap for someone, okay, or how much was that?
Speaker 2:oh, I didn't worry about that, you know, and that's because they didn't want to do the paperwork yeah, but if they had a bit of software or a process in place that actually dealt with that, then you're going to get that and you know, and having good processes will actually pay very good dividends and and will pay back your investment in it. Yeah, or you paying someone to you know, sort it out for you, it'll pay for that as well yeah, and not even just from a billing side.
Speaker 1:If you're getting a lot of leads in, say, you're utilizing your facebook ads or your instagram ads or something, you're getting loads and loads of leads in, but then you've got no process to deal with them, you're gonna lose business. Like it's simple. You're just not gonna, yeah, get the business through just because you haven't got something you can follow, replicate, give to somebody else. Um yeah, it's good processes. At the end of the day, they save time and they make you money.
Speaker 2:Um but you know, and you look at this and you think, well, how does a business owner know that he's got to have a good process in place? At what point does he, does he sheen? You know, know that they've got to have that process and I think if I'd have had it a lot earlier then maybe we would have grown quicker. So I would say those processes have got to go in almost as soon as possible.
Speaker 1:If not at the start. As soon as you start doing work, you should be making a process that is repeatable and copyable. It's simple, simple, do it from the beginning. It because it's gonna.
Speaker 1:The issue a lot of business owners have is they get to a point, a bit like you, and then think, oh no, like I have so much work to do to get this systemized and the process is in. It's a lot harder to look back than it is to look forward. Yeah, um, and and we see it time and time again with with business owners not having the time to put in, to make, make retrospective processes. They, because they want to, they want to move forward, they want to be growing, they want to be getting more leads and all that stuff and the processes seem a bit like pointless. But they're, they're just. It's just not pointless. It's absolutely worth your time.
Speaker 1:Um, go from a to b. I'm not necessarily talking about like, because some people might think that processes are like your, your staff contracts and your policies, your policies and procedures. I'm not talking about some. We have got all of those, yes, but I'm not talking those things which are all very important as well, are they? Yes, okay, oh, my goodness, they're all very important as well, but I'm talking about how you get from lead to sold.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:With minimal effort and optimum, like you know you know, execution. There's lots of.
Speaker 2:We're recording this so people can see my arm movements today you're very, I mean, and I think, from our point of view, and it was quite interesting, wasn't it because you know your accounting knowledge is really good, isn't it?
Speaker 1:oh so good. A bit like your process, knowledge a bit like my process knowledge.
Speaker 2:So you, you completely came in, completely put that bit of software in carbon, didn't you?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Spent. What about six months?
Speaker 1:on it.
Speaker 2:Yep, and it's still evolving, eh, yep, you might get it right one day, oi, but it took you a good six months. How many business owners do we see do this themselves and they just look at I mean, especially I speak to other accountants they look at the minute detail oh and you I mean, you spent six months on it.
Speaker 2:you didn't know accountancy, but you did know how things should flow and that was really important because you you could then ask the questions that other people you know you take adrian, he doesn't mind saying you know who is a very much an accountant would say well, of course it goes like that way. But you're saying well, actually I don't know if of course it goes that way, I don't know this does this and this does that and why does it have to?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So those questions of sort of why and you know I don't really understand. It actually worked really well to get the process right because we've now got checklists of everything. So if someone comes in, you know they're looking at it from really the ground up and we employ apprentices. So yeah, you know that really helps from that side of it, and I think it just it doesn't. It has to be someone that's organised, someone that's organised, someone that understands technology. They don't necessarily need to understand your industry.
Speaker 1:No, and I actually think having someone in to develop your processes and whatnot, it's probably better that they potentially don't come from your industry because then they really get behind what the customer sees and the customer journey and how people coming into your business completely cold will learn, they'll understand all of that. But you've got to have the right person doing that. Um, just on the implementing software, that is a huge job. I mean, I know at the moment we're implementing a bit of software called genie ai at the moment and I got to a point I think I'm not very patient really yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I don't know where you get that from I spent.
Speaker 1:I spent about a week on it on my own. After that week I was like, right, everyone's got to use it. And I just got everyone on it. We've had some teething problems, but I know in six months time it's going to be excellent. Yeah, so it's just having that faith and starting to use it. It's already giving us benefits and any clients listening to this will know there have been a couple of teething problems, but it's fine. A couple of email auto emails that maybe I shouldn't have had to go out automatically, nothing, mega.
Speaker 2:Is that the one that went out?
Speaker 1:today. Yeah, so I set a. So basically this should be my unfiltered minute. I'll bring it now. Um so, with the company's house checks, I set an internal deadline and I put that on the email that it was an internal deadline. However, no one read that it was an internal deadline. Everyone is panicking today that it's an actual deadline, so I'm really sorry. It's my fault, but do? We did get a lot of the codes we needed, so the deadline worked yeah it.
Speaker 1:Just it was an internal one, like the company's house one isn't. For a while. I feel bad, I. But also those auto emails. Yeah, there's so much the auto emails are going out when I've told them not to go out. But that's beside the point. It will be really really, really good when it's done and I'm pleased that I used it to get used to it. Good.
Speaker 2:I'm pleased, you're pleased.
Speaker 1:Yes, you've just got to bite the bullet and do it and it good. I'm pleased, you're pleased. Yes, you've just gotta bite the bullet and do it. And what's the worst that can happen? You'll send some auto emails out by accident. That's it. It's not the end of the world. We'll all survive make me laugh yeah, so also with processes, right, I think team members, so your team members in your business, they like processes. People like to know what they're doing.
Speaker 2:They don't like to guess.
Speaker 1:Don't like change, but if it's change with a clear process, you've got more chance of it working. Now you will get some really good team members who will, you know, work really hard without needing you know your step-by-step guides and whatnot. But having them there is important and does mean that you'll be able to get people to follow in the way that you want them to, and it just sets expectations, I think, more than anything, and makes training way easier and makes your team feel more confident.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So one thing I've written here as well is that a process can be flexible as well. It doesn't have to be rigid.
Speaker 2:Doesn't it.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I thought you keep making me have rigid processes.
Speaker 1:Well, no, not necessarily. You keep making me have rigid processes, well, no, not necessarily.
Speaker 2:Because, like so, I can go away from the process.
Speaker 1:Well, you need to use your brain, basically. So if you've got a process and it's telling you to do something, so say, for our accounts, you've got to use your brain. Yes, Say for our accounts, we have an internal deadline, we need the accounts to be done by. That's part of the process. However, if we've got a client that doesn't want to file their accounts till later, you don't follow that bit of the process, do you? You don't go. Oh well, jade said it's got to be done by this date. So we just won't listen to the client. Adapt with what's needed. Not every business owner will like people who think processors are flexible.
Speaker 2:I'm fine with flexibility. I didn't realise it was a thing.
Speaker 1:Well, with you. You just need to follow some of the processes in the first place. Oh, okay, Like updating carbon, Do you know what I had to delete? How many jobs was it Not delete complete About 50 of your jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The other day that you'd done and you'd just not updated the system. So when I go into the full team meeting I'm moaning at everyone that we've got overdue things, and it's all you. So I had to go through and fix it.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 1:So my process worked well?
Speaker 2:no, what it did didn't it?
Speaker 1:no, because you've got to communicate that process you didn't say to me jade, can you sort out my overdue work?
Speaker 2:but my process. You just let me get annoyed. Don't do it and jade will clear it no, that's not a good process that works.
Speaker 1:That is not a good process. Do not follow that. Advice people. No. My next point was processes should support people, not suffocate creativity, and you were suffocating my creativity whatever okay, so one process that I think we do really, really well is our onboarding process.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's something we're changing, but that's because processes evolve and adapt, blah, blah, blah. But our onboarding process is very good. It means that when we get a client on board, everything that would need to be set up is set up. The client knows what they're doing, the team knows what they're doing and then it's smooth sailing from there. And that is a process. If you're in a service-based industry especially, make sure you're getting that onboarding right. That is something that's really, really important.
Speaker 2:Onboarding has become even more difficult nowadays, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, for us over 100 things we have to go through now there's 85 steps on our onboarding process and that is just for an individual if we have a limited company it's, it's more um, so it's a lot of steps.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying processes are easy and straightforward and simple. There's a lot of steps, but that's why, saying processes are easy and straightforward and simple, there's a lot of steps. But that's why we needed a process, because, having all that in somebody's head, you're not going to do everything every time. No, like we send a slice of cake to new clients, do we? We'd forget about that.
Speaker 2:We would, that's nice.
Speaker 1:It is nice.
Speaker 2:Might see the invoices one day put through our system. That's part of my process oh is it so my process? Oh, I can get my own back here my process is when we buy something, it goes on to dext and then I can match it off on my bank account maybe I just need to give you a little bit of um what is?
Speaker 1:it pay? What payback? Not paper? I don't have paper. What are you talking about? So, as well, obviously we've with processes and things. There's so many tools that can help you organize yourself. Um, like I was speaking to rpa nicole um, earlier today, they're using asana to help them. We obviously use carbon and we've got gni as well, helping with our sales process. Um, I know people who are using Zoho, trello so many bits of software that can help you with those things and make stuff smoother, but you've got to utilise it. These tools have everything you need. You've just got to utilise it. And then also things that help your team. There's tools like Scribe and Loom, where you can digitally make how guides and um or how to videos so that people can look, read, watch again, read again and and see, um, and those are the sort of tools that really help us with our processes as well, um, and teaching people how to do things, um.
Speaker 1:So yeah, my next point, and you're gonna find this one funny I find it all funny is as a leader of the business, you should set the tone and follow the processes yourself I do very much follow the process myself okay I know the processes are there yes and I make sure people do the processes. I might not necessarily always comply, just saying okay all right, so we do all of our emails via carbon. They all go into carbon. And then we triage oh here.
Speaker 2:Oh, here we go.
Speaker 1:Dad still does his emails on Outlook. Do you know how many years we've been using Carbon now?
Speaker 2:Quite a few.
Speaker 1:About seven Mm Mm and it might be less than that, it might be six, but still the point still stands. Still not doing it in Carbon and it's like so annoying, yeah, but oh well oh well um, I think that is all I have left to say about processes now. Do you have anything more to say?
Speaker 2:no only that. Actually, although I laugh and joke and say that they can be broken, I do think that they are very useful yes and I do think that as business owners, we need to embrace the processes and sometimes listen to the people that try to implement them?
Speaker 1:I think so too. I'm glad you've learned that lesson via this podcast anyway, so I'm filtered minute warm in here, isn't? It. It is, it's really warm, it is really really warm I'm gonna open that window as well okay, um, so our unfiltered minute. Dad you, you had a really nice weekend, didn't you well, monday and Tuesday.
Speaker 2:Monday and Tuesday. Yeah, so it was um mine and your mum's, actually um anniversary, 35 years start of the rubbish season. 1990 is when we got married, 1st September yep so we decided not to have any presents and just to go and experience something. So we had a real treat went to the Le Manoir, which was Raymond Blanc's well, it is Raymond Blanc's hotel and restaurant and it was superb now it is a treat.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong, it's a real treat, but for customer service, and I know we were paying for it, but for customer service it was way out there. So we arrive at the car park, peter, who was the guy that came to the car, Good old Peter. Good. Peter Said oh, would you like to charge your car, peter and Paul, yeah, peter and Paul, yeah. And then when we walked down the road it was like fly away, peter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fly away, paul.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But he came up and he said oh you know, would you like your car charged, sir? It's complimentary. I'm like, ooh, okay. So interestingly he talked about modern cars. He said, oh, I can park it for you, sir. And I went okay, yes, but it's on my iPhone, my key's on my iPhone, and he went oh, okay, no worries, sir Did that.
Speaker 2:He plugged it in for us. He said oh, don't worry about your bags. And you know, the bags arrived and we went to reception and saw a lovely lady there Abby, and so I remember their names because they made such an impact. She took us to her room, they got us a little upgrade, wished us a happy anniversary, et cetera et cetera.
Speaker 2:We had a card cake and we had loads of stuff that they'd sort of made a real big effort, everyone we met. Happy anniversary, mr and Mrs Dono, et cetera, and it was superb. But also bear in mind Raymond Blanc's quite a big thing, two-star Michelin restaurant we were in. He'd come up. Happy anniversary, mr and Mrs Dono. That's Raymond Blanc.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it didn't matter the team or anything. The main man had still been briefed that it was our anniversary, this was our name, and he wished us what I mean. That is ultimate customer service, isn't it?
Speaker 1:he followed the process. He did follow the process and do you know what?
Speaker 2:so our room, because they upgraded it, our room had a fire in it yeah, open fire yeah, and and it was a huge upgrade. I mean, it was beautiful, um. And he said oh, that's a really lovely room and it's a bit chilly tonight and I'll make sure the fire is on or lit when you go back to your room. This is raymond blanc saying it wow and guess what? Fire was lit the fire was lit when we got in there.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:And I just think that level of attention to detail. Yes, there are processes in place. I'm sure everyone else's anniversary did the same, but it did make you as a customer, it made you feel really special.
Speaker 1:Good, I'm pleased you had a nice time.
Speaker 2:I sent you pictures you did.
Speaker 1:Wasn't jealous at all.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, time I sent you pictures?
Speaker 1:You did, wasn't jealous at all, no, but you know, that sounds really really nice.
Speaker 2:So my unfiltered minute is not as interesting as yours. To be fair, Of course it won't be Is.
Speaker 1:I was listening to a podcast at the weekend another Stephen Bartlett one, and it had Alex Homozy, cody someone and Daniel Priestleyley all on the same podcast. I haven't finished it yet, so no one spoil it for me but in the first sort of three quarters that I did listen to they spoke a lot about personal brand, and so I was like, right, I'm just going to do it, I'm just going to do my TikTok, which I haven't been doing, I've been leaving the TikTok world behind. I was like, right, I'm gonna start my TikTok. So I did, and I'm already. I'll tell you on oh, that video's got 666. That's not good, is it? So I'm already on 128 followers and 1960 likes in total on my tiktok that's really good so just just have interest.
Speaker 2:Yes, on on the tiktok thing yeah I mean, obviously I went on tiktok, didn't I? After the last budget, how many did I get?
Speaker 1:so there's more to this.
Speaker 2:No, no, no.
Speaker 1:On the one accounts tiktok, while I'm getting it up on the one accounts tiktok. I came up with the idea for the video, I posted it, but it had dad in, so he's claiming all the credit and I did it with the title.
Speaker 2:Budget information leaked and you got 51,000 51,000 views and ended up on national TV radio my picture was on it it was radio, was it radio? I've got a good face for radio it was radio.
Speaker 1:So anyway, if you want to follow me on TikTokiktok, please do. It's under jade donno. I've got two tiktoks. I've got one for my singing and one for me. One's jade donno singer and one's jade donno, so you can find me. Thank you excellent that's my unfiltered moment well done thank you. Do you have anything else to say?
Speaker 2:no, I've just that. I'm following the process, so yeah well done first time for everything.
Speaker 1:So if you want to join us next week, please like follow and subscribe and we shall see you next time. Bye.