Build A Business That Runs Without You

Could your business grow if you disappeared for three weeks with your phone off? We tackle the owner’s trap head-on and share the exact mindset, systems, and hiring moves that turn a founder-dependent operation into a resilient, valuable company someone else would actually want to buy. From the first friction audit to the final handover, we walk through how we’ve applied these ideas inside our own firm.

We break down the difference between being the doer and being the leader, why A players outperform “helpers,” and how to hire owners of outcomes. You’ll hear practical ways to document knowledge quickly—Loom walkthroughs, step-by-step scribes, and living SOPs your team updates as tools change. We explore the “holiday test” and the “bus test” to expose single points of failure, then show how simple automation and dashboards cut status meetings, surface bottlenecks, and keep work moving without you acting as the switchboard.

Valuation comes into sharp focus as we link lower founder dependency to higher multiples. We unpack EBITDA, recurring revenue, and why buyers reward clean, comprehensible profit over clever tax positioning. Expect straight talk on separating personal finances from business accounts, setting salaries that reflect reality, and planning your exit window at least three years ahead. Along the way, we share candid shop-floor examples—from phone answering services to workflow dashboards—that saved hours and raised standards.

If you’re ready to step back without things falling apart, start small: delegate one task this week with a clear SOP, measure what breaks when you’re away, and fix it with process, people, or tech. Subscribe for more hands-on playbooks, share this with a founder who needs the nudge, and leave a rating to tell us what you’ll systemise next.

🎧 Listen now on Spotify & Apple Music and don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review – and send us your questions for future episodes!

Transcript

Setting The Exit-Ready Aim

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Business with the Dono's, where we talk about family, business, and everything in between. I'm your host Jade Dono and I'm here with my dad, Paul Dono. And Django. And Django, who's standing on the windowsill, ready to bark at any point. Um, so this episode we are talking about the exit ready mindset. Building a business that doesn't depend on you.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

You quite like that, don't you? Something that doesn't depend on me.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Yeah, you'd rather me not be there, really, don't you? And just sort of like play golf and keep out your hair.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

See, everyone thinks I don't want dad to go play golf. The reality is very different. Stad breaks all my systems.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

It's lucky in May when Matilda comes that I get a good chance to really test your systems.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

I'm actually panicked about that, to be quite honest. But there we go. So we've thought of this business topic because we're having a few businesses selling at the moment. Um, I think there's a big nationwide thing. I know I've listened to a few podcasts where they're saying it's a big thing. Baby boomers are getting to an age where they want to sell their businesses.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Why are you looking at me like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

You are a baby boomer, you're not selling though.

The Owner’s Trap Explained

SPEAKER_01 1:20

No, I'm not. But baby boomers, and obviously, there's a lot of them are are now thinking of selling, they're getting to an age, and so there's an awful lot of businesses up for sale at this moment in time. Um, so something to think about, and this is like a little example, is if you went on a three-week holiday tomorrow and turned off your phone, would your business be thriving or would it be dying when you get back? For most directors, I think it doesn't cope, they wouldn't take a three-week holiday.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Oh, I would.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

You would. But today we're talking about getting that exit ready mindset, not necessarily because you are selling tomorrow, but because a business that can run without you is the only business actually worth owning. Because otherwise you've just got a job, haven't you? Really? Yeah, you're just working. So my first little talking point is the owner's trap.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

The owner's trap.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Which is, yeah, this is this is the first point.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Is this all about oh I can do it better, so what's the point in showing someone else?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Sort of, yeah. It's defining the doer, so the person who's doing all the work, and then the CEO, the person who's like actually building and leading the business, and making sure there is a differentiation between the two sorts of people. Um, I think a lot of owners feel like they have to do everything, yeah. Especially of small businesses, feel like they have to do everything, they have to be the best at everything, whereas in reality that's not the case.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, I think I mean I've read quite a few of Richard Branson's books, and I think that the underlying theme there is he always employs people that are better than him.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

And I and I think that that's quite true. You know, if you employ people that have got skill sets that are better than yours, well, why wouldn't that be an issue?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Exactly. It is getting those people through the door. And I watched a um YouTube video of what it might have been a TikTok video actually, of Alex Ormose, TikTok, not Tiki Tok.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Not Tiki Tok.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Oh my goodness. Of Alex Ormose, who's another business person, um, and he was talking about people in your business, you you get different categories, you get C players, B players, A players, and your A players are the ones who are better than you, and you want those. Yeah. Um, and then obviously it goes down. B players are sort of solution driven but won't take action, and C players are your people who won't do anything unless you tell them.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Um ideally, you want I think you want a mixture of people to be fair.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

You do.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Um, but it is making sure that you're not the doer.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Yeah, well, I I I do try and make sure that quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

You do, and then you'll come in and you'll try and do stuff like how we've done it years ago, rather than well, you know, it worked back then.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

We've always done it this way.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Terrible.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

So if you are like not replaceable in your business, then you've got a problem. If you are completely irreplaceable, the business cannot run without you, that is a problem. If you want to sell, yeah, that is problematic because how if the business can't run without you, how are you gonna sell it?

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah, absolutely. And the valuation actually changes dramatically if it can run without you.

Hiring A, B, And C Players

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yes, yes, it does. So you need to shift if you are that, if you're listening to this and you're like, my business can't run without me, I am the doer. You need to shift your identity really from being the expert, from being the doer to being like the the leader, the one who's directing things but not doing the things.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Um, so I have an example as well here.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Oh, do you?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I do.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Am I going to cringe at this example?

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Maybe. Um, so my example is think of a high-end restaurant where the owner is also the head chef. If the chef gets sick, the doors literally close.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Contrast that with a franchise model where the system produces the result and not the individual. It doesn't have to shut up like McDonald's. Like McDonald's. Burgers are I mean, I know that's not a fancy restaurant, but some people's fancy.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

But maybe, but you not everyone can go to I said a high-end restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

No one's putting McDonald's as high end, are they?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Some might.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Either way, if you do look at a franchise model, there are processes and systems in place to make sure, like with McDonald's, that burger is the same every time, no matter who's cooking it. You've not got the owner of McDonald's in each restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

So Ronald McDonald can't cook it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

No, Ronald McDonald's not there all the time. But if you're if you've got a restaurant and it cannot run without you because you're the chef, you're the owner, you're the marketer, like it's not gonna work. Unless your name's Ronald said it. You're in this mood today. It's a problem. It's a problem, it's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

So what you're saying is your processes have to be absolutely spot on. They do, and to be replicated. Yes, that's what you're really saying.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

That's what I'm saying, that's what my example is has to be Ronald. It doesn't have to be Ronald.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

You just have to be systemized, yes, and have processes so the business can run without you.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yes. Okay, so I think one of the problems as well, and you have to figure out is where is the friction? What what are the things you are doing that no one knows how to do? So it is identifying that those things and then making sure there's a process for them.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Um I think in our office what people can't do is put the cardboard out into the recycling. People can do it, they just that's the job I did today.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

That's in this mood today. This is what I'm happy to deal with, people. Pray for Jade.

Systems Over Heroes: The Restaurant Test

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Yeah. There aren't actually many jobs in our business that people can't do that I do. Some might choose not to do it because they may have not done it before or only done it once, but then once they've done it once, they're an expert.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

So I think it's more a case of if they choose not to do it, then you've got to teach them how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Um, so in our business, I think, you know, without exception, everyone can do the job that I do.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

You know, and obviously we we're talking about exit here. I do all the exits, but it is something we can teach other people. Um and you know, and as we get more, I'm not going to be able to do all of them. Um, but that's probably the one job that I do that no one else does.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

I mean, I don't do accounts anymore, do I?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

No, you don't, thank goodness.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yes, and that's what everyone says. I did a few tax returns in January.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

You did?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Um hopefully they were alright. But that was only to help other people.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

So and obviously chasing up the main tax return I did, which was yours, you left it to the last minute.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I did not. I did it in like August.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

So rude? Rude. So um, so so they those sort of jobs are done by other people in our office.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

You know, the reviews now, a lot of them are done by other people.

unknown 9:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And we have a plan as well. So we've got a plan to get you out of some of the things, not necessarily the exits, but the reviews that you are in, we've got a plan of of how we um sort that in the future as we grow.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Um but small business owners though, the biggest and I speak to so many, even in my profession, and they'll turn around and say, Oh, I can't afford that.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

You know, I do this because it's easy to divide. You know, I can't afford to spend£24,000 on someone. But what they forget to look at is it's two grand a month.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

So when you break it down, you actually could give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

And if you're getting the work in, then what why is the problem?

SPEAKER_03 10:26

I know I suppose someone the other day and they were like, Oh, yeah, yeah, when we get this in and this in and this in, then then I'm gonna recruit. And I'm like, but you'll be at breaking point, you're not gonna be able to recruit because you're gonna be firefighting and not spending your time trying to find the right people. So get them in.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

And this is where I think if you are starting out and you're not you're not recruiting yet, and you're like, Oh, but that's gonna take me so much time and hassle to train someone. There's a lot of tools you can use now, you and you can start now before you even get someone. Yeah, you can do like Loom videos of how to do things. If you don't have Loom, you can't afford Loom, don't want to pay for Loom. You can record on Teams as part of your Microsoft package or Google Meets, you can just record what you're doing on the screen. Um, you can do scribes. There's so many tools now to help you make those instructions and to make these processes. Um, I still think sitting down with someone and showing someone something is is really valuable, but you can really easily now make instructions and you can start now on it's just having that vision, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 11:35

It's having the vision to say, right, okay, I want to exit in 20, 30 years or you know, a couple of weeks. And then actually having that plan to get to that point. Yes, what's ideal, you know, what team people do you need, what systems do you need, and they're all going to evolve anyway. Um, but yeah, just get to the point where you're no longer, I won't say needed, but as you say, you know, can take a four or five week holiday and not actually worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Exactly. And I think one of the key, if you do have a team, one of the key places that you can know that you are completely dependent on in your business is if you go into your office and your team are asking you question after question after question after question, that probably means they're depending on you too much, and you need to sort that.

Finding Friction And Replacing Yourself

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah, and the mindset's not quite right. Yeah, it's easy, isn't it? It's lazy to go and ask a question rather than think for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yes. So I've got a little bit of homework for any business owner that this is really relating to, and it's a holiday test.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

The holiday test? Yeah. Oh, where can I go?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, so not you, you've already done this like five times this year. Maybe not five. I might be exaggerating. Um, so you start book a long weekend away.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yep, done that.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

See, I told you, see how that goes, then book a week, and then a two-week, see what happens, see where the problems are, and then do those moon video subscribes to fill those problems.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

So yeah, that's my little bit of homework. And if you've got to go on holiday.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Great. I've done that though. I know it's not all about me.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

It's not about you. This is my help.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

You're in a couple of weeks off in May.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Uh right. I've lost my train of thought now because because of you.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Okay. Um I'll follow the process.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

No, so I've said about building your loon videos, your scribes, you really want 80% of what your business to be done is to be systemised.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Um mix with people that have have done it, that are growing their businesses.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Do that, and those that have exited, ask them what what is it that they would have done differently.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah. You know, and this is when you can learn about these tools and things that are available to you on your own. You're like you're not on your own. There are plenty of other business owners that can help.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Um, so yeah, so your standard operating procedures, that's what you need. So you'll start seeing like the word sops around. If you're on Instagram like me and have got business things, everyone talks about SOPS, it's a corporate word.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

I've got pink ones.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

No, sops, not so standard operating procedures. This is what something like scribe is great at because you can literally do what you want to do on the screen and it'll record it as instructions.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

It's a really good bit of kit. I used it the other day. It's really good.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

I know you've been to go ahead and tell you that it's really good for ages, and you're like, just do a loom video. But some of the screens.

Train, Record, And Document Processes

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Some of the scribes are better. Um, and then if you do it like that as well, it's not a really, really, really long, boring document. It is just this is exactly what you do. Um, anyone can follow a scribe, pretty much. You want to also create a culture within your team that they update these things. So if you've got an outdated one, your team are comfortable to update it if they know the the process has changed, so it's like a living thing, it's not a static thing, because processes change all the time, especially with technology changing. Um so yeah, you have to you have to do that. Um so another thing you can do, like we've mentioned this a lot on other podcasts, is if you are dependable, you can't afford another member of staff, or maybe you don't want to, is leveraging the technology to also plug those gaps. Maybe write out everything you're doing and see where the technology can and outsource, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

No, I'm not talking about just overseas, you know, outsource in the UK as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

You know, how many times have we spoken to small business owners saying, Oh, I can't answer the phone? Get a phone answering service.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

It's not expensive, add it into your costs.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

It's not, and if it's gonna save you hassle, do it. Um, one of the things I've written down, because we've got a real life example, is our our new dashboard. Um managing the workflow used to take quite a lot of time. And now it's a dashboard that we've made. There was quite a lot of upfront work, but we've made this dashboard, and now it doesn't really need any input.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

No, and it's and it is actually showing some improvements as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

It is so yeah. Well, it's put in terms of the team, in a in a different sense, it's put a little bit more pressure on because I put it in the WhatsApp group every single day.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Um now people are working to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

But that's getting your processes right, isn't it? Getting obviously stuff that you were doing to more automate it as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

So you can have your couple of weeks off in May.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Well, exactly. And this is why, although when we're not, you know, selling our business, we've worked with people who are selling, but obviously I am going to be having a bit of time off. So it is two weeks, two weeks, yeah. No, um, it is making sure that I can go off without any hassle or worries or stress as well, um, which is the same thing. Um so yeah, you want you want to leverage the technology to fill plug some of those gaps, um, which is definitely an area that uh I'm hot on. Um okay, so my example for this bit with the technology is called the bus test. The bus test, um, which isn't ideal, but it basically says if a key employee or you were hit by a bus tomorrow, can your business still run? Can everybody see how to do their job? Apart from the bus driver, apart from the bus driver, but you get the idea if and I like someone doesn't have to be hit by a bus, it seems a bit dramatic. But if if somebody did go off unwell or on maternity leave like myself, can that job be done by others? Do they know what to do? Do they have any idea what that person does? Um that's really important, and we do often say that to people in our team: what happens if you go off sick? Yeah, we need to make sure that we can cover cover. Um something we've sort of already mentioned as well, in terms of hiring people, is hiring for the future, not just to fight fires.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah, absolutely. Um and that's in planning, isn't it? You've got to plan your business to be able to hire that person.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

You know, we know what type of person we want in a year or so's time, don't we? Yes. So we're working towards that type of person.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

We are, but yeah, you don't want to just be hiring someone to fight the fires, you want it to be future-proof. Yeah, um, and to help with your growth and to support, if you do want to sell, to support that.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Um so I I wrote here very eloquently um to stop hiring helpers and start hiring owners of specific outcomes, yes, which I think is nice.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Um enlightening.

Tech, Dashboards, And Automation

SPEAKER_01 19:54

How enlightening, thank you. So, as well, you want your team to be able to fail and to be comfortable to fail. This helps with the question thing we were talking about earlier. If your team are comfortable to make a mistake or fail, they'll learn more. Obviously, you don't want them to make massive mistakes, but they've got to be able to learn, develop, and grow without feeling like they need to ask you for every single little bit. Um that's really important, and that builds a better culture where the the team are more comfortable and able to do their job. Um so yeah, so in terms of getting an exit-ready valuation, this is why less U equals more value.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean a lot of people go E bit da, E bit da this, E bit da, which is earnings before interest tax, depreciation, and amortization. Um and then uh some specific industries have multiples of that. So if you've got a business that, let's say for argument's sake, um, I don't know, take our business, and I'm I I don't know exactly what the EBIT DAR is for us, but let's say the EBIT DAR is four, four times earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization. And that is because it is dependent on you. A lot of accounting practices dependent on the owner, yeah. But if you've got a business that's exactly the same as the guy on four, but getting an EBITDA of eight or ten, the reason for that is A, it's not dependent on the owner, and B, it's got recurring revenue. So you look at your industry and you look at what makes that exit figure high.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

So You know, we're probably near the higher end of our industry because we've got recurring it revenue and it isn't completely dependent on me. Yes, but that's been done on purpose, not just to give me more holidays, although that's quite nice. Um, so you've got to look at industry, you've got to look at a how can you remove yourself from that industry, and b what do you need to change within your business that has a higher multiple? Some industries are let you know that people will buy on a gross profit percentage or multiple, some will do it on turnover, but a lot will do it on this e-bit figure. I don't always agree with eBit DA, but at the end of the day, what also comes to mind is that you know someone might come up with a 20 million valuation, but if people are only prepared to pay 2 million, it's only worth 2 million, regardless of eBit DAR turnover or anything else. So if you are, I would say if you are planning to exit, you need to have at least three years worth of planning to get you in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, absolutely, and I think buyers as well, they look at risk and having a founder-led business is seen deemed as high risk. What happens if something happens to that owner? Like it it's a high risk, whereas if it's system led, then it's low risk, which is far more than that.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Yeah, yeah, they get a better value, you know, at the end of the day, if someone's buying you, it's not to do you a favour, it's to enhance their their business.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

So they want a return of their money. Well, why why wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah. And the the next thing I've got on here as well for evaluation is don't depend on your director's loan too much. Um, you want to separate your personal life from your business to show your proper profit.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Which is why you need the th, you know, in my opinion, you need that three years, three to five years, because a lot of people have a small salary, high dividend. We've seen certainly from examples that we've done, that's not always the best when you're trying to sell. Get a salary that works for you, put that through, might not be the most tax advantageous, but you know, if you need a hundredk out, you have a hundredk salary. Yeah, you know, um, because buyers just don't want to deal with that that dividend side of things.

The Bus Test And Knowledge Transfer

SPEAKER_01 24:24

No, they don't. They don't, they want to know the true value of the business. Um so I've I've written a little example here as well. So if you have two identical companies, say company A makes 200k profit, but the owner works 60 hours a week, but company B makes 180k profit and the owner only works five hours, company B will probably still sell for the higher multiplier. Absolutely, even though it's making less money.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Yes, indeed. And you know, you just need to work with a partner that's able to identify that, work with you on that, and move that forward for you.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah. So my tip to end this is apart from book yourself a little weekend away to see what's what's going wrong, another thing you can do is just create a quick uh spreadsheet, Word document, whatever, um, of every task you did this week. You then want to go through, highlight anything that didn't require you to do it, you could have got someone else to do. And then you can also go through and highlight anything that could be done automatically through software. And then with one of the tasks that didn't require you to do it, that someone else needs to do, you need to pass it on, make a scribe for it. That's my my homework.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

That's a good bit of homework.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

It is, isn't it? I thought so.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Do you want to do it for me? No, why not?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I already do all this for you.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

There you go, see.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Anyway, on to our unfiltered minute.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

What's yours?

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Um, I think I'm gonna go back to something that's been a recurring theme. So I'm off to AATHQ tomorrow. Okay, just for our listeners who don't know what the AAT is, what's so that's a professional body, Association of Accounting Technicians based in Canary Wolf. Um, so I'm going there and we're gonna talk about apprenticeships, why small businesses aren't going employing apprentices as much as they can, and also whether or not the examinations um and the learning from professional bodies is actually good enough for the workplace. I think my opinion, AAT are doing a really, really good job, but I don't necessarily think some of the other professional bodies are.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, fair enough.

Hiring For Future Outcomes

SPEAKER_03 26:58

So, and and that's all stemmed really from um some of the stuff I've done on LinkedIn uh recently. Um because people have got their work ready and it is changing so quickly.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

It really is, and I think it's not just the AT, it's a lot of professional bodies, a lot of um examination boards. It's all outdated, um, but they they can't change it quick enough to keep up, um, and people aren't ready for the real world. And I th I think like even with with my MBA that I'm doing online.

unknown 27:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Oh, you didn't tell me.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Uh even with that, I think I mean I'm doing it through the apprenticeship, which we said last week is good because you have to apply it to your business. If you wasn't doing it through your apprenticeship, it would be very hard to understand how it relates to real life. Yeah, and you could go in somewhere and you'd be like, Oh yeah, I've got my MBA, like I got all these buzzwords and acronyms, but you wouldn't actually know.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Oh, acronyms, don't get me onto acronyms. I hate acronyms. Why do why does everyone want to use acronyms?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

That is the if you're on one of these courses, it's acronyms everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Oh my goodness, I like to play thick on acronyms. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Anyway, it it's it's pretty much all of them are not are not preparing you. And I know we went last year we went to a debate, didn't we, about um apprenticeships like in the workplace and university degrees, and it was a big debate. We actually went to like the Cambridge debating halls, it was really cool. Um and they they debated this exact point in that university degree may not equip you for um a real world job. I mean, I I think there's a lot of other benefits to going to university and stuff, but that was there. I did, but there's a lot of other other benefits and things to get to going. Um but I think there is definitely an argument to be had that the course wouldn't necessarily prepare you for real life unless things change.

unknown 29:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Anyway, my unfiltered minute.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Oh, what about you now?

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, it's my turn.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Golly.

Culture: Safe To Fail, Safe To Grow

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I went to London at the weekend on Valentine's Day, and I thought it was going to be really busy, but it actually in the morning wasn't busy at all. The afternoon was really busy, but morning. Um, and I went to go see Hades Town on the West End, and I would very much recommend it. It was really, really good. It's not your thing. No, no, I'm already asleep. But it was a really, really good show. I would re anyone who likes a musical like me, I would recommend going and seeing it. Won a load of Tony Awards when it was on Broadway. I mean it's still on Broadway, but it's um when it first came out, it won a load of awards. Music's really good. The um the cast are really really excellent, and it's different to any other musical that I'd seen. So really, really great. Go see it if you like a musical like me.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

I think I'd have preferred to watch that musical than watch England against Scotland at the weekend. So there you go. But I am going to see England Island this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Oh, hopefully that's the one.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

I'm going to London too.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Oh, lucky you. Lucky you. Alrighty then. Well, we shall see you next week, everybody. We will. Goodbye.