Stress-Inducing Rumination

Ever find yourself trapped in an endless loop of replaying an old argument or obsessing over a worst-case scenario? In this episode of Stress-Inducing Rumination, we take a look at why our brains get stuck on these exhausting mental tracks. Often, rumination stems from a misguided survival mechanism that’s just triggering a chronic stress response. We dive into strategies to break the cycle. Managing your thoughts isn't about achieving a perfect, quiet mind overnight; it's an empowering act of reclaiming our mental energy, time, and peace. Let’s discover how stepping away from the loop can open the door to a calmer, more intentional life; that sounds great to me!

Music by: Matthew McGrath https://www.instagram.com/matthewmcgrathmusic 

https://www.instagram.com/bubbles_and_breakdowns

And remember, after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hello and welcome to Bubbles and Breakdowns, a space designed for you to show up as your beautifully imperfect self where we dive into the good, the bad, and the bubbly. I'm Ashley.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

And I'm Katrina. Ashley, do you ever find yourself trapped in an endless loop of replaying maybe an old argument or obsessing over a worst-case scenario, maybe? Only every day of my life. Well, in this episode, bubbles and breakdowns, we're talking about stress-inducing rumination. We're going to take a look at why maybe our brains get stuck in that loop and on these exhausting mental tracks. And often rumination can just stem from this misguided survival mechanism. I think this is really interesting. And it's triggering a chronic stress within our bodies. So it's like, stop. Stop. But we're going to dive into how do you stop? What are the strategies to help break the cycle and manage our thoughts? So it's not just about achieving a perfect quiet mind overnight. It's going to be little steps, but of empowering us with an act to reclaim our mental energy, our time, and our peace. So let's discover how stepping away from that loop can open up the door, hopefully, to a calmer, more intentional life. And you know what? That sounds pretty great to me. Same.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Okay, if you have never ruminated in your life, I feel like you're lucky. You're so lucky. Yeah. And you probably just don't give an S H I T because this is something I feel like that has plagued me for a very, very long time. So maybe let's start with like, what is rumination, right? So it's really just thinking, pondering, obsessing over the same thought over and over and over and over when you're not really discovering what a resolution for that is.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

And it's something that's happened in the past. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Like replaying, replaying. It could be something that happened the same day, yesterday, five years ago. Yep. But just something that really, and it can happen anytime. I feel like sometimes it happens to me when I'm trying to go to bed. Yes. Sometimes it happens to me in the pickup line at school. Like it's just and part of it too, the things that I ruminate on, you tell me the same. Is usually when it's something that I think I did wrong. A hundred percent. Or I did, or I feel is this person mad at me? Yes. And I think getting older, I tend to ruminate less because I think I I I'm starting to not care. But the things that I care about, it's just like, no, no, no, this person doesn't know me that well. They're not trying to. Yes. And maybe, you know, I'm assuming they're thinking one thing. Half the time, if I if if this obsesses my thoughts enough and I talk to someone about it, they're like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

And you're like, oh my God, I spent so much time obsessing or ruminating over this fact when I'm in the clear.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

So it's so interesting because what you just described, number one, couldn't relate more, which is it's replaying what we did, but usually it's replaying what we did and how it affects other people or what they think about us or how they feel about us. Are they still our friend? Da-da-da-da. Am I, did I just have a career-limiting move at work? Am I ruining my reputation? It's all of this like self-doubt and when you're highly critical. Highly critical and and writing narratives about what the other person, oh, they think I'm a total idiot now. I can't do my job, or that I don't care about them because I've snapped at them when I was PMSing, or it can be so many, so many different things. And here's the crazy part. When I was looking into this, about okay, to I've known rumination is a problem for myself or my husband for many, many years. Right. It's that our brains mistake it for solutioning by thinking through it. Our brains are going, okay, if I think about this enough, it's gonna fix itself, or I'm gonna think through it enough that it's gonna like solve the problem, but it's not. It's like your brain, your brain can't reconcile. And so your brain is trying to make sense of it, it's trying to fix it. And the fact of the matter about rumination, it's like spoiler alert, it's in the past. You can't change it. Done and done. It's done and done. And so there's people who I think start to really work on this rumination, and then they'll say, okay, what's done is done. I'm gonna move on. And then there's other people that ruminate a lot longer, right? And and so when we look at this, that problem-solving illusion, like our brains think they're fixing something, they're actually just exhausting us. Our brain is just exhausting us, stealing resources, sleep, like you said, like, oh, it's one o'clock in the morning. What a perfect time to replay the last three years of events.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

It's rumination time, rumination hour. Let's do this. I think the other thing that I do too is at this time of night, sometimes you we get intrusive thoughts. And I feel like they're linked, right? So, like, intrusive thoughts are just things that are scenarios maybe that could never happen. Maybe could happen. Maybe could. And but it's just more that again, I think it's something for me that like scares me. So I'll think about going on a vacation. Are we gonna be safe? Is the you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

And that's anxiety because that's actually in the future. Yeah. So like rumination is the past, and anxiety is the future, and all of it is bad. All of it, you know. So, like, when we think about examples of things we ruminate out, where you you said some of them in the beginning. I'll share one, and then I'm interested to know, you know, my a consistent one for me is that I say something in a meeting, and you can always tell when you say something in a meeting, when either people like pick up the thing and they go with it, and then they like reinforce it through continuing to talk about it, or it wasn't a good thing to say, and no one agrees with you when they literally change the subject or they talk about something completely different. And moments in the past where this the latter has happened where they're like, and whatever Katrina said made no sense, and then they like want to move on. Um, I'm always like, Am I alone? Like the I start to think, like, am I alone on this? Like, did I say it wrong? Because, you know, and what that does for me, Ashley, is it triggers this like, is my thinking broken? Like, is my critical eye and my critical brain not working correctly? Those are the types of thoughts I start having. And it never is about, oh, maybe, like the flip side is that that other person really just wanted to get their point across. Right. I don't ever write that narrative, you know? And so instead, it's like all of this spotlight and this magnifying glass goes back on ourselves. And that's the worst part about rumination, is because you literally, when you're ruminating, you are worst-case scenario for whatever you don't know how people felt, you don't know how they're reacting to you, and you are thinking the worst for sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Well, and I feel like a lot of times too, I've done that when I was in the working world, but it was like if I made a misstep, or if I got, I'll get this to you by end of day, and then you wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, I did not get that email out, or just because we we are overloaded with so so much. Right. And I think it comes into this like not facade, but like of who we think we are on the outside. Whenever that gets hurt, affected, trampled on, we're gonna worry. And I I don't know, I I'm so curious. Like, is this a type A person thing?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

You know what? I I think it is type A perfectionism masquerading as for some reason, we just think it's like I don't know, fruitful. Right. You know, and I do think there is some rumination we're not solutioning, you're not solutioning, but also it's like you can't solution maybe with your thoughts. I mean, yes, I think you can arrive to a point where you have to think through something and then you have to go, this isn't, I'm not, I can't fix this without a third party. Right. Or I can't fix this, period. And if you're not getting to those places, then you're just playing it over and over and over. And and I think to that point, Ashley, it's like kind of addictive. Yes. Because you're like, if I think about this long enough, if I feel bad about this long enough, if I try to reconcile this long enough, then it's gonna make the importance that like shows that I care and that I'm a good person and I'm gonna let this bother me because I'm a good person, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

All maybe we're trying to save ourselves from doing that again. Yeah. Because we know how it makes us feel. Yeah. So we're kind of like, okay, I'm I'm gonna think this through to say, how could I have done this different next time? And a lot of the times it's stuff that doesn't affect you surviving on this planet. Yes. Right? It is at least because we're lucky, right? We've got shelter, we've got food. So, like, back thinking of like, how are we gonna survive, right? This is more ourself. Yes, and how we're perceived. And how we're perceived. And maybe we're just like, I don't want to get here again. So let me think about this. Yeah. It's almost like the degree at 3 a.m. to figure out how I can better present myself.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I love that theory. I mean, I bet there's some psychologists out there that could like reinforce. I mean, it makes sense to me because you're kind of like, I don't know, waterboarding yourself of being like, don't ever do that again. Don't put your foot in your mouth like that again, or ooh, really touchy subject. Don't bring that up with your friend again. You saw how they reacted, like fill in the blank. But the other thing I would say is yes, there's maybe a positive there with what you just said. Like maybe it helps us be better people. It doesn't feel positive, but I'm just saying maybe. But maybe, but but then also I do think there is something to that because if you've ever done something that you have regret or you feel bad about, I, for one, will literally say in my head, oh, I never want to do that again. I never want to feel like this again. Yes. And I think that that is also a way to like stop the rumination. Totally. Okay, lesson learned. I don't want to ever do that again. Yeah, I don't want to feel like this. But what I'll say is like the stress-inducing part of it is huge. Huge. Because when you're ruminating, I I'll share some of my ticks. Yeah. I don't know how you operate. Some people get tight shoulders, headaches, like da-da-da-da. I pick my cuticles. Oh, I am anxiety and rumination.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

For some reason, I'm picking them right now.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Right, right, right, right. And I also do something that only one other friend of mine uh that I've known in my life also did, and we'd always joke with each other because we'd like to slap each other's hands away, bite the inside of my cheek. And like it's it's called stimming, it's like stimulation or whatever. But when we're having difficult thoughts, it's starting to physically manifest, is the point. It's coming up as tension, stimming, expressing in our physical bodies. And so it's not just thoughts, right? And I think that the coolest thing about healthcare and like clinical space right now is the most successful doctors are the ones who are living in the clinical world and the psychology world because brains and bodies are connected. They are and so this is why I'm like, okay, rumination, bad for you. What are some things that you feel in your body? Like when you are ruminating 100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I feel like I am I've always been the tight shoulder person, like all the time. Like all my stress, all my tension is here, which leads to my TMJ. Oh, you have to do that. And I clench my teeth. You do. Yes. So it used to be worse in college, so it's gotten better, but I've always been a clencher, which then leads to headaches too. So it's all that stress. And now you can see why anytime your body is in this fight or flight stress mode, yeah, it's bad for you. So bad. You know what I mean? And I think there's some stimulation that like we can think about things, but like, how do we break this cycle? Right. How do we get out of this? Because it's not okay. No, I agree. You know, and I think there's things where it's like, I've like I've said, as I get older, I think I mentioned this every episode, I'm more confident in myself. Right. I think I've started to tend to ruminate a little less. But maybe my worries are becoming a little more frivolous, if that even makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Well, and I think that's actually more healthy. Yeah. You know, like if they're lighter worries than they are these like catastrophic, self-deprecating, I'm never gonna have friends type of worries. Um yeah, that's so interesting. And I think when I when I was reflecting on rumination and the physical toll, I read this book years ago and I didn't even think of it until we were just chatting. It's called the telomere effect. So I'm gonna get like a little scholarly, a little science-y for all my for all my science nerds out there. So our little cells in our body have these little end caps on them. Think of a shoelace with a uh a plastic tube on the end of it to keep it from fraying, right? So our cells have these. They're called telomeres. And there's lots of things in our lives that can shorten the length of our telomeres. So you think about a shoelace when it gets worn out and those things break away. Think of your telomeres getting shorter and your cells dying, becoming senescent cells. So essentially, it can be bad food, you know, it can be lunch meat, it can be cigarettes, it can be alcohol, all those things. But one of the biggest is stress and particularly rumination. So in that book, Ashley, it was highlighting over replaying thoughts over and over, negative thoughts, ruminating, had a directly negative tie to the health and vitality of ourselves. We're killing ourselves. Yes. And this is where I'm like, this is why right now the importance of tying what we think and what we do in our bodies is so, so important because everyone maybe rolls their eyes when people say, We are our thoughts. But like, we are our thoughts. Like we literally have so much control over our physical body by what we think. And it's hard sometimes because you're like, Well, I can't control my thoughts. And it may feel that way, but it just takes a lot of diligence and a lot of like this whole topic of neuroplasticity of the younger you are, the easier it is to kind of like reframe the way you think, versus now when you get older, it does get harder. So you then have to be more intentional. So I think we've got some ideas that we looked into, and we could share, you know, how to start kind of like reprogramming rumination, particularly, and try to isolate it and contain it versus letting it creep into every night and keeping us up. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

And I think too, this some of these also work for not just ruminating things that are in your mind, but also for challenges that occur that are very real. So I think that's something to call out too, because this first one, I just think of one of my best girlfriends in the world. So this is this is tip one is the worry window. Okay. So give yourself permission to ruminate, to worry for 15 minutes a day at a specific time, set that timer, and then you're done.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And you're a timer gal. I love timer. So, like, I I kind of like this where it's like, I finally have a minute. Totally. I'm gonna like mentally empty out my garbage.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

And I think too, with so much going on and we are so scheduled, timers always help me focus when I need to focus. Right. It helps me not be like, oh, I have to look at the clock every five minutes because I don't know when 15 minutes is, right? Right. This is key. And the other reason that I bring this up too about is like, I have a girlfriend who gives herself a day to wallow. Oh, and this reminds me of this where it's like, give yourself permission, give yourself time. It's not healthy either to say, just like, don't think about it, don't think about it. Cause then you think about it more. I also think we are conditioned that way, right? So give yourself that worry window to say, I can worry about this, but guess what? Don't let it stunt your day, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Don't let it inhibit you from giving out their exercising, doing positive things because it can literally make you just want to sit on a couch and feel sorry for yourself. Exactly. And um, yeah, I just think that's really important. I love that. I I think it's really important if you just need to get it out. I also think in that worry window for people who like to journal and stuff, I think writing things down, something about getting it out of our heads on paper that says, you know, I can't believe I did XYZ. And then you're like, oh well, I can believe it. And then, you know, like you get it somewhere else out of your head. I don't know. I think there's some some power in that too.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

And I think sometimes I'll a lot of the things I think, and I don't know if this is just lately or if this has been my whole life, I forget so quickly. Yeah, moving on. To be able to come back though and really see how my thoughts were and be like, oh, you've grown from this, or this is really not that big of a deal is important too. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

So the next, the next tip, so tip one, worry window. Worry window. Make the time, worry your hearts out, get it all out there. The next one is shifting our thinking into why to how. This one is so cool because why is a victim mindset. Why did this happen to me? Why do I keep doing this? And it's very self-persecuting. And it's like, why me, why me? Does anyone really like to be why me? No. I mean, like that's kind of sad, you know? But we do it. So instead, change it to how. So this is about taking something that feels very like reactive. I'm feeling bad about myself, why me? Whoa, whoa, whoa, into how can I handle this better next time? I love that. And and I love this because you can't change the past. Nope. But you can then commit to yourself how you're going to move forward in the future. So instead of shifting your brain into this why, why, why abstract, because by the way, I don't know about you, but when our little kids ask us why, why, why, you get to a point that you literally say, I don't know why. And the answer typically is I don't know why. Oh, maybe I was hungry and I just said something bad. Like maybe there's an answer, but not all the time. So instead, turning it into how that's like tangible. We can be thoughtful, we can make a plan. And you're trying to better yourself, right? Totally. And that goes back to what you're saying in the beginning. Like, do we do this so that we don't do it again? Right. Right. Exactly. All ties together.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

All right, and tip three, we're calling this the circuit breaker. Shake stuff up. Yes. Okay. You there's so many techniques and just changing your scenery to get you out of that mindset. Right. Go to the go for a walk. Oh my god. Go water your garden. It is so important in every, anytime you feel overwhelmed or stressed, changing up that environment. I remember when I used to work from home. I'm like, I work from home. I sleep at home. I make dinner in my home. Yeah. I wasn't leaving my home. And I'm like, I gotta get out of here. Seriously. I'm like, I'm like, what? I leave to go to the grocery store for 20 minutes or whatever. Like, it is so important to be like, because I think you also start to associate spaces with your mindset. Yes. You need to break that apart. Yes. You need to take some deep breaths, something to distract you, something to put on a song. We talk about music, how important that is. That is a huge one. Break your environment physically, emotionally, with a stimulant that changes your brain waves.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

I love it. And and what I just was thinking about in here was something that is energizing, like moving the energy, you know, sitting on the same couch, you're gonna feel those same feelings. So it's like even just stand up and move rooms. If you're ruminating in the middle of the night, I'm I'm guessing, I don't know why I had I just thought of this. Maybe this is where the midnight snack comes from. People are like, I need a peanut butter jelly sandwich all of a sudden at 12:30 in the morning. You know, but like think about it. Then you're getting like a little tree dopamine. I mean, they're not gonna encourage middle of the night eating, but like if you're really having a difficult time sitting in your bed mentally trapped, yeah, like don't stay there. No, I think that's wonderful. Totally. Um, so I guess the thing about this is that breaking this habit is not gonna be a perfect thing for either of us. No, I would say we both identified that maybe we've gotten better at this, maybe more self-forgiving or quicker to move on over the years. It's gonna be incremental. So if you are out there listening and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst ruminator and I don't know why I do it, and I can't stand this about myself. Have grace, but also like think about the tips that we shared and maybe pick one. Totally pick one and to try.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

We're always strapped for time. Do we want to waste that time not being present? Because I think that's what happens.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Like you said, we're either stuck in the past ruminating or we're stuck in the future planning, catastrophizing, and catastrophizing. And we'll talk about that in the next episode, I think, about catastrophizing, because I think we both have a tendency to do that. Maybe one of us more than the other. Maybe, maybe not. Um, but I think the coolest thing too is that once you start to change and how you are having grace with yourself, you can affect people around you, your spouses, your friends. You can be very like, oh, I know how you feel. It invokes empathy, you know, and it creates space for you to say, like, don't worry about that. Let it go. Oh my gosh, you're such an incredible person. So what? You said the wrong thing, move on. That doesn't change the fact that you're a wonderful person. So that whole ripple effect, I think, is really cool too, because we all deserve somebody egging us on and forgiving our us when sometimes we can't forgive ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Totally, you know, stop the rumination, yeah, start the growth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah, stop the rumination, get up and keep living. Seriously. Because at the end of the day, and and get some damn sleep. I think that's the other thing, too. So if someone knows how, tell me. There's one little quote that I thought was kind of cute as I was planning this episode. Uh it said, Your thoughts are a neighborhood you visit. It is not the house that you have to live in. You know? So I love that because it's like, okay, I'm just visiting this thought. Like these thoughts are not me. Let's not have them become us. And instead, let's just have it, you know, just stop by in a little neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Your visit is only 15 minutes. Yep, and then the worry window, and then we're moving on, and then get that snack. Yes. Oh my gosh. Well, I loved this. I think it was very helpful at least just just to talk about that. Everybody does this. Yes, we think. If you're not, let us know because you we're not worthy. Um but to do to relate, I think, especially in this time of our lives when we are perfectionists and we do take things to heart, to you know, they kind of affect sometimes how we also function. Yeah, it's good to share that. Hey, this happens. Yeah, nobody's perfect. But guess what? You gotta snap out of it.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I think that's really beautifully put. Beautiful. And remember, everybody, after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles. Well, if you're loving us, please follow us on all the socials, Instagram, send us a DM to tell us how much you love us. Listen to us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

And don't ruminate.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Cheers, everybody. Bye.