The Art of Slowing Down with Sarah Heinss

We sit down with Sarah Heinss from Muse Therapy to unpack the urgency trap of modern life, exploring how technology, childhood conditioning, and societal pressures keep our nervous systems locked in a perpetual state of fight-or-flight. Sarah breaks down the science of why our bodies confuse everyday emotional stakes with physical danger, and makes a powerful case for why rest and adult play are not luxuries, but essential biological tools for nervous system regulation. By learning to slow down and reclaim low-stakes, unstructured fun, we can signal safety to our brains, move out of survival mode, and unlock the creative energy that busy adult lives so often suppress.

Sarah Heinss is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor (LCPC) and the Founder and Lead Therapist at Muse Therapy & Wellness in Chicago. With over 15 years of background in the visual arts, storytelling, and media, Sarah uniquely bridges the gap between clinical expertise and creative life. She specializes in helping high-achieving individuals, artists, entrepreneurs, and Highly Sensitive People (HSPs) break free from chronic burnout, perfectionism, and the exhausting pressure to constantly perform. She is passionate about the restorative power of unstructured fun, and the importance of reclaiming a sense of playfulness and spontaneity in adulthood.

• Follow Sarah on Instagram: @sarahheinss 
• Work with Sarah Heinss: https://musetherapy.co/ 
• Dopamine Culture: https://www.instagram.com/p/DasG2_dSylU/?igsh=MXNpb2VqOGs2NnB1MA== 
• Music by: Matthew McGrath https://www.instagram.com/matthewmcgrathmusic

https://www.instagram.com/bubbles_and_breakdowns

And remember, after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to Bubbles and Breakdowns, a space designed for you to show up as your beautifully imperfect self, where we dive into the good, the bad, and the bubbly.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

I'm Katrina. I'm Ashley. And I'm Sarah. And in this episode, we are sitting down with Sarah Hines from Muse Therapy to unpack the urgency trap of modern life, exploring how technology, childhood conditioning, and societal pressures keep our nervous systems locked in that perpetual state of fight or flight. Sarah's going to break down the science of why our bodies confuse everyday emotional stakes with physical danger, and what makes a powerful case for why rest and adult play are not luxuries but essential biological tools for nervous system regulation. By learning to slow down and reclaim low stakes, unstructured fun, we can signal safety to our brains, move out of survival mode, and unlock the creative energy that busy adults' lives so often suppress. Wow, let's do that. Let's play, let's figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Let's play today. Yeah, let's do this. But before we get in, let's hear a little bit about Sarah. So Sarah Hines is a licensed clinical professional counselor and the founder and lead therapist at Muse Therapy and Wellness in Chicago. With over 15 years of background in visual arts, storytelling and media, Sarah uniquely bridges the gap between clinical expertise and creative life. What an interesting connection. Integration. Love it. She specializes in helping high achieving individuals, artists, entrepreneurs, and highly sensitive people or HSPs break free from chronic burnout, perfectionism, and the exhausting pressure to constantly perform. She is passionate about the restorative power of that unstructured fun and the importance of reclaiming a sense of playfulness and spontaneity in adulthood. Welcome, welcome, Sarah to Volume.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Guys, that's such a powerful intro. It makes me tear up every time.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, you're such a powerful woman. And as a fellow, I am also a sensey, so I'm like, I need to know everything about the sensible.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

And if our listeners have seen your name out in socials, you recently had a very viral post that really encapsulated this art of slowing down. And it really helped us visualize what slowing down in our busy lives looks like. And I think today what we're so excited, Sarah, to talk about with you is a little bit of like nervous system 101 that we really want to focus time on why everything kind of feels so urgent. Spend some time talking about that playful aspect, which I know you have such an interesting point of view on. And so let's start kind of where it all begins, which is the basics. But welcome. We are so excited to talk with you and to learn more. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Ah, I'm so excited to be here. I know this is so fun. I was like so shocked by the virality of that video and clearly hit on some sort of a cultural nerve. Um, because I mean, there has been like, I think over 280 people have redone the real. Like they've they've come to in different countries and using that same kind of title, teaching my nervous system that not everything is an emergency. And so, of course, I got tons of comments, and this is a personal journey that I've been on for the past eight to 10 years about slowing down. I didn't know that everyone else would resonate with it so much. I just thought, oh, I'm doing such a bad job of this culturally and with my phone, and I've been working on teaching myself this for so long. And then boom, a lot of other people like something about the simple visuals of these everyday moments of slowing down, like really, really hit people.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

And I was like, I was just reading some of the comments too, and people were sharing their stories of like how this limits them in their life, and like what a cool thing. Like you said, this is a cultural almost phenomenon of saying, Yes, this we gotta stop.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

It's it's something like worldwide, too. Like this was something that hit, like it's one of the top trending posts in Argentina and India. Like this is this was a worldwide thing where it's like everyone, we're culturally like feeling the sense that something is off, but it hasn't always been able to be named. And so I think the naming of that is even like and that's the first step in making any kind of meaningful change is like knowing what the problem is. Right. Almost making it tangible.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

You held up a mirror because how many of us are like curly putting away our groceries, or how many of us are like walking way too fast? I thought it was just such a beautiful visual representation. But I think what's also wonderful about you and your background is that you're not just this social influencer who's obviously engaging in now this global conversation about slowing down, but you are also a counselor. And so you have a lot of experience dealing with the human condition and how people react and feel in their bodies, you know, on a daily basis. So I think what we could start with is that little bit of uh nervous system 101 to ground the audience and kind of what do we need to understand in order to just, you know, start to identify these opportunities to slow down in ourselves or unpacking.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think too, uh, I mean, you know, I've said this to you guys before, and I tell people I'm not, even though this nervous system video has gone viral, I'm not a neuroscientist, right? So I don't know like the ins and outs of polyvagal theory and all of that, but I do know at a clinical level, and as a storyteller, I do know how this is impacting people. And so a lot of times I I like to use the analogy of like a smoke detector in a house. And so we all have a smoke detector in our house, and its job is to detect when there's fire in the home. But our nervous systems become like a very finely tuned smoke detector. It's very sensitive, it's very heightened. And so it starts to not quite know the difference between burnt toast and a house that's actually on fire. And so sometimes I'll I'll often ask my clients when they're just like, I just have so much to do, I have so much going on. I'll just say, okay, well, let's talk about this. Is the house on fire or is this burnt toast? And burnt toast is inconvenient. Nobody wants burnt toast. It's a mild inconvenience, but is that an emergency? And it's slowly, slowly retraining our minds and our bodies. What is an actual emergency? Because for some reason in our culture, almost everything feels like an emergency.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

That is so interesting. What I love about this is like, yeah, burnt toast sucks, but there might be another piece of bread versus, yeah, your house burns down. Now we're dealing with a real issue. And I and I love the way that you're saying that is that our nervous systems are interpreting at times when we're in this heightened sense of awareness that the burnt toast is like the house burning down. I think it's such a beautiful analogy. Let's shift into like why do these little things that are seemingly innocuous or really aren't that big of a deal feel so urgent? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Why is my burnt toast breaking me on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Right, right. Why is it breaking all of us? I know I struggle with with a similar thing. So I think there's a few, a few things to this. I think one is that a lot of times our our our minds can be in the present, but our bodies are living in the past. So our nervous systems, our our nervous systems develop habits, right? So we weren't just born feeling like everything is an emergency for most of us. Um but I think over time there really is this thing of like the habits of the nervous system, of like we train ourselves that everything is an emergency. And there's so many reasons for this, right? We can get into so many reasons, but I was really reflecting, it's so funny. I went to therapy yesterday and I'm like, Emily, I'm prepping for a podcast and I'm gonna be talking about slowing down. And so, just quick question why do you think I have a hard time slowing down? Because I'm like thinking about it from like a cultural, socio-cultural perspective. And I'm like, no, no, no. I need to slow down. Why has this been my personal work? Because I think that's probably more relatable than like technology is awful. And I think that those are things too. Like, I want to get into touch on AI and technology just like a little bit. But the bigger thing is, and of course, she immediately said, Why do you think you have a hard time slowing down? And I'm like, Don't do that, Emily. I hate that. Um, I know, stop it, stop being a therapist right now. But I I think it really is very much motivated by, you know, I'm wanting, I want to have it all together. It feels good to have it all together. It feels good not to drop balls. You get rewarded for that socially. You're impressive. You get a lot of compliments from your parents growing up, from teachers, from professionals once you're in a job, from people online that are like, wow, you know, so impressive. Um and really being impressive is like, okay, well, well, why do you want to be so impressive? Well, it's to be liked, right? It's to be loved. It's actually an attachment thing. Like, I want deep connection in my life. And rushing around and being impressive and not dropping any balls is a very cheap way to have almost the soul, right? The soul and the heart and the body's longing for, which is really community connection. So I don't think that that's the only thing, but I think that has been a lot of my journey is like I'm safe, I can be connected, I get to show up exactly who I am. I don't have to be impressive to be liked, to have friends, to have even my parents' approval. Like, I don't have to be impressive.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

It's so that is such a profound correlation that I don't think I've heard said in exactly that way, Sarah, which is it's not just that we want to be liked so we feel this inner sense of approval, but maybe it is, and this is the way I interpreted what you said, is that we don't think we're worth being liked unless we're performing. And that is exactly, I think, where all the other trickle downs happen with imposter syndrome and self-confidence and negative self-talk. And so I love the way that you explain that.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Same. And we were, we just dove into like perfectionism, right? Which is at the heart, I think, of what you're saying too is like then it's like not only could do we have to do it, we have to do it perfectly. Right. To get even more praise, right? And that bigger promotion or those bigger feelings.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah. I mean, I even this this line came to to me yesterday that I was like, oh man, I functioned so long with I am what I can do perfectly. I'm worth what I can do perfectly. If I can't do it perfectly, I'm less than. I am less worthy of relationship promotions, praise, all of that. Which is like, oh, that's oh, how sad.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

You know what? And I do think that that hits on so many of these things, this pressure, this internal fight or flight that we say, okay, I can't mess this up, I can't mess that up. But in actuality, when we're in that place, we aren't performing to our best because we are monitoring ourselves. So this is really interesting. So there's the modern reward system of like, hey, society's telling us perfection is good, high-level performance is good, that's what we like. Stay on top of it and go do it fast. And do it fast. And then you add in this like tech wave. I'd love to get your perspective on this.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

This makes me cringe before we even get into it because I'm just like my phone across the room 10 times a day. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And I just yes. Well, it's so funny. We all want to. Like, we all every, you know, and and even people who enjoy technology, and I do. I worked at the Apple store, it was my first job outside of college. So I really enjoy technology and I love knowing about trends and stuff. But even that there's so many people that like we're we're like, oh, AI. We're like, oh, our phones. I wish I could get rid of it. But but like we're we're kind of we're addicted to it at this point. And there is this beautiful thing that, and I'll send it to you guys. It's a social post online by an actual neuroscientist. And it's this graphic, and it's called the rise of dopamine culture. And oh I mean, it like it it brought tears to my eyes watching because there's three categories. There's slow traditional culture, and it's playing sports, home cooked meals, film and TV, um, handwritten letters, um, vinyl records, finding love. And then there's the set the second category, which is fast modern culture, and it would be like fast food, streaming shows, sending emails, and then there's dopamine culture, which is Uber Eats, watching reels, rage bait, trending sounds, infinite swiping. And it tracks each one. So it's like playing sports, we'll do all three categories and where it is. And when you when you read through dopamine culture, it's like it we're all doing it. It's so crazy, and it's happened so fast, and it's rewiring our brain. I mean, we know that, right? Oh, I'm tired of saying that. But it is, it's rewiring our brains.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

But also, I love that this whole dopamine addiction, but it's not, I love that illustration. So we're excited to share it in the show notes for sure. Is that it's dopamine addiction, but the way that we're getting it is getting faster and faster and more tied to our phones, and by the way, giving us all neck and back pain. Totally. And it is is swung so in the wrong direction. But what I'm also seeing, Sarah, is that some people of a certain age, maybe people in this room, are noticing this and trying to then reframe and go back to the culture of the 90s where we grew up with those home cooked meals.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

You keep talking about we want to give our kids a 90s childhood, right? Yeah, and I even saw something like to kind of not counter that, but make you think is like, well, only if we could be a 90s parent. Yeah. Life isn't like it was, right? So like there's certain things we're used to, but 100%, I feel like that instant gratification almost messes with you. You're expecting things so quickly, so fast. Yeah, we're changing the shell of who we are.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Well, and one thing I've been thinking about lately is like, what's the point of being productive? Actually, like the what's the point? You know, it's like it's like, can we flip this narrative on its head? It's like, no, productivity is good. Why? I don't even know why anymore. I'm like, I think actually wasting time, like I think, you know, play, which we'll get into later, doing things slow on purpose because it takes longer. Yeah. Like, I think that that's the reversal.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

I don't know if we're gonna be able to do that, like, you know, but it is a goal. And I we would talked about this on a prior episode too. I was reflecting on the this just to get cliche for a minute, the book and movie Eat Pray, Love, where in Italy they're like, you don't have pleasure. There isn't enough pleasure. And and part of that is there was another guest on too that said um being present is productive. And it's about flipping and reframing and saying the way we define productivity through checklists and output and perfect, you know, deliverables is actually we need to rewrite what productivity means. I think that's such an important cultural shift that I hope in our lifetimes we will start to experience and see. So that was like a it was a little trip on nervous system and tech, and like I think we all feel this, we live it, and we only scratch the surface with it today. So then let's shift gears into something that I think we all need more of, which is play. I think like lighthearted, let's have fun.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Just makes me smile thinking about it, to be honest. Like, and how I don't do this enough. And even I have opportunities to, because I've got littles that I'm not present, and it's it's sad.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

I know it really is so hard, and I think it's like play and rest kind of go together, they're like the opposite side, you know, of a coin. But they we feel we have to earn both of those, right? We have to earn rest.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

It's it's terrible. So, but when did we stop having fun? Let's start there. When did we stop? Because we all were kids, yeah, right? We went too hard too fast, and is does everyone just experience this when they go to adulthood? Is that what it is? Like I used to know.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

I know, I know. I think I think part of it is like that transition to adulthood and all the responsibilities that people have been experiencing for however long. You know, you're just like not a kid anymore, so there's a natural thing, but there's something else going on here. And um, if I can briefly talk about sports, which is hilarious because I don't even watch sports, but my dad, I'm from the South, and my dad is a huge college football person. And so him and I have been having a lot of conversations about play too, because he feels it as well. And it's happened recently for him as well. And he's been talking, we're talking about like the monetization of everything. And we've been doing that for a while, but there is something about monetizing that now everything is work. Something that used to be like, oh, I love painting. Well, now I'm putting it online and now I'm trying to sell my paintings. Nothing is just to waste time, to have fun, to connect in a lighthearted way. And even with college football now, and I don't know all the logistics of this, but basically what's happening now is that like it's hard to have team loyalty because the players are so disposable. They can leave and go to another school from year to year. So it's not like you contract with them and then they, you know, are are reimbursed for school. Now they can have contracts, they can have brand deals, they're paid to play at the colleges. And so it's as soon as it's gonna be high school.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

It's wild because I think even now before they couldn't like accept any of that, right? And it was like they couldn't be all of a sudden they're in like Madden. I don't even really know what that is, but it's like or the football Nintendo games. Listen to me. I like nobody. I'm like Sarah, I'm like, go sports ball. And then they get like reciprocals, right? There, but they're getting that monetization that dilutes the heart of it. I think is what maybe we're trying to say here, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah. And I mean, there's so many other conversations around like, well, is it ethical to have them, you know, profit, you know, schools this way? And that's fine. I'm not having that conversation, but I think it's more of like that is one example of where we've seen so many times where something that was just for fun, like my dad, you know, and so many people just watched ball for fun and they would get behind there would be uh this rivalry and there would be a sense of like, we are with this player for four years and we're invested in this player, and we're watching, and we have a dialogue, and then now that person is gone. And so he's talking about even football doesn't feel as fun anymore.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Just watching so many yes, I had so many light bulb moments as we talk about on here when you with what you just said, and it was like we're replacing the inner joy and reward of connect connection and relationships and this loyalty and this sense of comfort and stabilization with quick hits of financial gain, which we all know in our lives at this point is nothing but a fleeting thing. Money comes in, it comes out, you make more, you make less, and it goes. It kind of goes to that dopamine. Right. Yes. But they were replacing it. We're saying don't feel that joy. You don't have to get a deep relationship. Instead, just maximize your experience and monetize. I this is such a aha for me that I don't think I had it even thought of until now. Like that example.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

But also, we see how this becomes such such a vicious circle because even the opportunities that used to exist for you to play and rest or like enjoy something and have that connection is just being obliterated. Yeah, less and less.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

And I think to like go back to the phones and kind of the dopamine epidemic, now when there is time, you're trying to get through your task list so that you can kind of be on your phone. Because fun now for us is like scrolling on Instagram. Fun and rest is like, oh, finally I need a break. I'm gonna sit on the couch and scroll through Instagram. And I'm guilty of this too. Like, I'm no better than everyone else. I'm fighting this myself. Right. Right. I have uh well, I think we'll get into this later, but the uh the brick, are you guys familiar with the brick? Do you love it? I love it.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

For so many people who don't, let's explain it.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

It's this little block called a brick, and you it's magnetized. You can go put it on your fridge or wherever you want. And then you set up in your app how you want it to function, what apps you want it to close down, and then you go physically scan it on your refrigerator.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

But you can't undo it, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Either you can't undo it. And so, and so like if you scan your app and you go out, there's no way to unlock it. So you're out of Instagram and TikTok and whatever else you don't want to be on, your email. And so I have it set right now. My my rhythm is that it is bricked from 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. And that might not sound like a big deal. You know, other people in the bed scroll time. Totally. It's in the bed scroll time. And so it's like it's eliminating that. It's also eliminating it being the first thing that I look at when I open up my there's nothing fun to look at on my phone when I first wake up. It's just an alarm clock. Um so so that's a big like big picture rhythm. But I think anytime if you're just like, you know what, I want to be really present today and I'm just gonna bribe out of anything that's like social media related, maybe even email if you're on the weekend, you know, that that kind of thing. So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

That's great because you're setting up more time to decompress and not ingesting stimulus and giving yourself those little dopamine hits. Because I also heard recently from another um expert in the field of neuroscience, it was about when you start using up your dopamine, it's kind of like squeezing the juice of a lemon. And if you use it all right away in the morning, then by the end of the day, you're there's no more juice in the lemon and you start getting sad and tired. And I'm like, yes, this makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

My lemon juice is gone. My lemon juice is gone.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

But let's going back to play, there's kind of like two sides of the coin, which is there's play is like this aspect of wellness, but also an aspect of creativity. Maybe we could start with wellness and and why play can be a cornerstone element in our overall health and wellness.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you know, I think that um like picture this, right? Because everyone, the whole thing about like earning play. It's like imagine you have three deadlines at work the next day and your kids are screaming because they're, you know, so hungry. Like, so you have a million kind of fires of real life.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

I don't need to imagine it. I just listened to it.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

You don't need to imagine it. It's happening right now. So imagine, you know, you have three deadlines, they're due, you're late on them, and they're due tomorrow. Your kids are screaming, they really are hungry. Instead of spiraling out of control to try to get all of those needs met and get all of that done and be up until 2 a.m., what if you said, here's what we're gonna do as a family, I'm gonna give you guys a snack. Yeah, so that you're you're not upset. And we as a family and with some of our neighborhood friends, for 30 minutes, we're gonna go outside and play tag. So everybody in the neighborhood, here we go. Everybody goes outside, everybody plays tag, everybody is silly and having fun and you know, letting the kids run faster and blah, blah, blah. Like we're all just together having fun. And then you go back inside. What it has given you now perspective. On all of your responsibilities. It's released dopamine in a healthy way. You've connected with people. And then you're going to sit down all together, this small group of people, and you're going to have dinner together.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

It's like the reset button.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

It's the reset button. It's it's the it's the perspective shift that that we need. And then you're gonna go ahead and do your responsibilities. You're gonna, you might have to be up late and whatever, but you feel differently while doing it.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I love that you're saying this because I live in a cul-de-sac and suburban Northwest, you know, greater Chicago area. And essentially we have this happen. They're either kickball pickup games or softball pickup games in our little cul-de-sac. The kids run crazy. There's three families that mix in, sometimes four. And we do just say, Who wants to order pizza? And then we like have it outside. And we always walk back in and we're like, well, wasn't that just such a happy accident? And I love this whole opportunity when I look at the weekends and we say, Oh, we don't have anything. And instead of like, you know, reacting to the societal pressure to always be busy, I'm like, yeah, let's just not do anything. Who knows? Maybe something will pop up. And I will say, probably seven times out of ten, it's those little moments. And we do feel re-energized, not just our kids, like the happiness factor going up, but also like, yeah, I do come back inside, Sarah, to reflect on what you were saying and look at the dishes and go, eh, not right now. Not a big deal. They'll still be there and it's fine. Exactly. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

It's burnt toast. It's an inconvenience, it's not an emergency.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yes, yes. So that is such a great perspective on just like helping us regulate. It it helps us. I I think what I just got the biggest thing, Ashley, was it it gives perspective. So when you shift into play, now you're like, oh no, this is really important. Seeing the smiles on my kids' faces or laughing with my neighbors or having that little mini happy hour and just kicking back versus all the things when you're inside this little box that feels so big, it just makes them feel smaller. I love that so much.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

I feel like it also the end of the day is like you were saying, like that lemon juice is gone. You're trying to almost survive instead of live. That's a lot of the time. But like to change your perspective on that, like there's still a lot of the day to enjoy. Like it really does. I love the way that you brought that up. It's gonna make me think how I play my days out differently. Um yeah. As a part of wellness.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

I love this. So it kind of going back into okay, so now we understand the nervous system. We talked a little about the importance of play, giving perspective that helps us regulate. Now let's talk about maybe what's been happening with creativity. We touched on it a little bit earlier, how we're replacing maybe the the intrinsic fulfilling elements of creativity or or just you know, slowing down with monetization and productivity. What, you know, when survival and urgency take over, can you tell us a little bit about how that can stifle your creativity? You know, how it hinders innovation and that that fun creative spark?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah, I mean, so so vital to like good creative work is rest and play. You know, I think about like people where they have their best ideas. It's in the shower, it's you know, in the car ride when you can't look at your phone. It's like, you know, it's you need to have downtime. And so, you know, I work with creatives primarily in here, you know, we talk so much about creative block and imposter syndrome and what makes it hard. And it's rarely this like abstract block of like, oh, I just like I can't sit down and I just can't write. There are reasons that that is going on. Um, and so I sometimes think that like the most creative thing that we can do is take a nap. Um, and I've like, you know, made made a video about that because I think that like a lot of times we need, and this all comes back to safety. It comes back to our body feeling like we're safe. And it's really hard to create from a playful, imaginative place if we feel like there's a tiger in the room. So we have to teach our nervous system, first of all, there's not a tiger in the room. It's a bummer you burnt your toast this morning, but there isn't a tiger in the room and calming yourself down, and sometimes that requires, you know, rest. Sometimes that requires a variety of things, but there really does have to be a calming first to even have the capacity for ideas.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

I couldn't agree more. When I go back to my coworkers with my best ideas, it's usually after a very long run. And they even made jokes, Sarah, where it was like, oh, Katrina went running again. Uh-oh, watch out. What are we gonna what are we gonna get today? And but it does just provide clarity. Like when our brains don't have to focus so intently on survival, we then can create space for, you know, just being able to everything else. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah, I mean, I've yeah, and I in in my own personal work with my personal creativity, I've had to, I have to set aside a really big block of time. Um, if I I can't just because it's not about time, right? Time to be creative. It actually is about capacity um and nervous system regulation in order to be able to be creative. And so I almost need a very long on-ramp and a long off ramp. So I have most, I've designed my schedule where most of my counseling clients take place afternoon or sometimes even 2 p.m. Because mornings is when I'm the most creative. And so I will spend a huge block of time and part of that'll just be going for a walk. Like that's part of my creative time as I go for a walk. I journal a little bit, I'll go for like a gratitude walk, or I'm just focusing on, you know, just everything that's going well, because of course we're not always focused on that. We're focused on where the fire, where the next fire is. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

And I think, you know, to to realize you the schedule that works for you, I think is very powerful because you're really putting your forefront to say, like, I always admired too when I I mean, sometimes this doesn't always work, but like it when I was in the corporate world, people had those blocks of just time to think, time to get stuff done. And I noticed a pattern, right? On some people's, like you're saying your creative block is in the morning. So you do what you need to do to fill your cup to then fill others' cups. Yep. And I think there's some power in that to realizing who you are and what's gonna make you regulated and what's gonna make you where you need to be to feel fulfilled.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I think right now in our culture, it is kind of like this push through. Yes, you know, it's this concept. You gotta get it done, you gotta be resilient and push through instead of being like, no, I need to go take a nap.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, I don't need to push through, I need to go go slower. I think it's great. I have a friend that'll text me sometimes and he'll just out of the blue, he'll just I'll just get a text that goes even slower. Because he knows I'm trying to slow down. And so amazing to be like, you can go even slower than you're slowing down. And it always brings me to tears because I'm like, oh, that's all right. I needed to remind you. And you know what?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I literally, as you said that, I just like took a deeper breath. It almost is, it makes you think, like, yeah, you're right. What is the rush? Well, so let's talk about what are some practical ways to slow down? Yeah. What are some of these like micro practices that we can embed to our lives? Yeah, besides that text from your friend, to just kind of take it down.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

You can give him our number though. We'll take a text because he has slower.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Oh my gosh. I know, he's so great. I have such great supportive friends in my life right now. It's so helpful. I think what's funny is people often think, you know, I have clients all the time that are just like, well, when I rest, I spiral. Or like, what do you mean slowing down? Teach me how to do that, right? And I think a lot of times we think rest means we need to take a week off, or we need to move to another country and change our name, or in order to like get this like reset that we need, or meditate for 30 minutes. Whereas actually what's crazy is like most of the nervous system reset around slowing down happens in micro moments. So instead of like meditating for five minutes, which isn't gonna change a lifetime of rushing, what if you had 30 micro moments throughout the day where you're slowly teaching your nervous system it's safe? Like it's safe to slow down. People aren't gonna leave you if you slow down. And if they do leave you, maybe they needed to leave, you know, like slowing down is a good thing. And so I think one practical thing, as my video suggests, is just taking things slower. Like as you're doing a task, as you're eating, could you sit down while you eat? As you're walking to your car, could you say, Do I need to run to my car right now? Even in this micro moment, like, okay, I'm going from my apartment to my car. Do I need to go as fast as possible? Or can this be a micro moment where I walk 20% slower?

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Um, so I think it really like the ways of slowing down are very accessible. This isn't like you need to go on a meditation yoga retreat. Like it really is just everyday micro moments are so much more powerful than, yeah, again, 30 minutes of of meditating. Um I think also like as as we talked about breaking your phone, I think that's really helpful. Phones are a huge part of this.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

I think I want like the brick for my birthday. Like I'm not even kidding. Because I feel like that's a great gift for you, writing it down. Insta has like that timer, but you put you could do ignore. Yeah, you can ignore it. I mean, it's like which I know is purposeful on their point or part, but like there is, I don't know, that power of the brick. I'm like looking into for sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

But this whole thing about micro moments, I think I think where we fail as a culture right now is in this overhaul sense of like, I have to go extremes. And because extremes aren't things that we can maintain, but little tweaks are things that we can start to ingrain and embed. And they do the same thing, I think, with experts in the nutrition and and uh fitness world, which is you know, make micro changes, whether it's snackable, you're gonna do uh 20 squats five times a day or whatever, and you're just gonna do it when you think of it, and it takes the pressure off in a way. But what I think is so important about what you're saying is it all starts with awareness, and that's what really what we get so excited about, Sarah, in this podcast is just bringing a level of awareness and a culture that doesn't make space for these types of conversations because it's just programmed to look at our phones, it's programmed to go on to the next thing. So it's like this automatic sense of like we need to pause and we need to check in with our bodies. And if we don't do that, then you're not going to be able to incorporate these changes. So I love that you're making it like very tangible of just like make those micro moments, you know. Go like yesterday, I was at the computer and I'm just pluck, pluck, plucking away, call after call after call after call. And I stopped when I had a 15-minute break. I laid on the floor with my eyes closed for five minutes and I felt like a new human.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I know it's amazing reset. Five minutes of phone-free time.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, too, Sarah. I think this is where your video went so viral. Cause as Katrina put it in the beginning, it almost was this mirror moment of slowing down. Can I do this? And you, I think that's it made it so visual for people that it is these micro moments. Even when I watched it for the first time, that's what drew us to you. I was like, you just stopped putting the eggs away quickly and just like pulled them out at a normal speed, put them in your fridge. And I was like, oh my gosh, I literally am just like, what goes in the fridge? Like, I'm go, go, go. For what reason? There's no reason. And I literally, I was like, she's doing it. I need to try this. And it was that micro moment for me that it really clicked to say slow is good. Slow is yeah, slow is needed.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if we want to what's the rush? Why do we need to be so productive? Do we need to be productive when we put away our groceries? Why not just put them away? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

And do you want to be around people that look like they're in a constant state of frantic energy? Like, do we really want to be around people that seem frazzled all the time? And I'm like kind of calling myself out. I'm like, thank God my friends like me enough because I definitely am that person. So I know.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Well, I think we're all in good company there.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yes. Yes. I think too sometimes it's like it's even just taking a second, if you realize you're doing something really fast, just taking a second, taking one deep breath and just going, okay, is this an emergency? And I mean, yesterday, I mean, my life, the pace of my life, it's like feels crazy right now because of all the different things that have happened since the viral video. So I'm having to put into practice more than ever what I've been learning for the past, you know, eight to ten years. And one thing I literally had to do yesterday is I'm like, I've got a lot of things, a lot of responsibilities, um, both like yesterday, today, and and on Friday. And I was like, okay, what is actually urgent? Because you're acting like a lot of things are urgent. And so I wrote down all the things that were on my mind. And I was like, what is actually the thing that like if you don't do that now, it's gonna have some consequences. It still doesn't mean it's an emergency, but there will be consequences. Doing my laundry yesterday, there will be no consequences from waiting until the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Not a glass ball, you can let it hit the floor.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yes, yes, exactly. It can hit the floor, it's not a big deal. However, like prepping for this podcast, that's how I have a limited amount of time to do that. If I want to be prepared for the podcast, it needs to be prepped. And then I had another conversation. I'm like, okay, what's gonna happen if you don't have time to prep? And these are the questions that we don't like, no, well, I have to. I have to, it's like, well, why don't you do the best that you can to prep? And so I got up early this morning and I prepped for an hour before the the podcast because I didn't have another window to do it. And so it's like, I think we we just have these things, and of course I have a standard of excellence for myself and I want to do everything so well and so perfectly. And so sometimes it's like, well, instead of getting an A plus on a podcast or a session with a client or whatever I'm or a video that I post, what if I could get a B minus?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

And how about this? You just be unabashedly authentically you and realize that that is just not just good enough, but it's excellent. I think we as a society are so hungry to see the vulnerable real side of people that when we get glimpses of it, we're like, oh yeah, we remember that we, you know, all have the same challenges or that we all, you know, are in these imperfect little situations. So I think like the beauty of what you're doing is that you can expose some of that too and and let yourself loosen up, you know, and and I think you'll find just even more beauty from that.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

So, and I think that took us in like the perfect circle where we kind of started, right? Of like, why does everyone think feel so urgent? So we'd love this was a great conversation today. And I know I have so many sticking points for myself. I'm sure our audience will too, but we'd love to end with a little lightning round to get you know you a little bit better, make it a little fun. This is our way of playing right now to kind of integrate back into it.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

So I'm gonna say you're saying this is not serious.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Oh no, no, we don't know. But is life? Who cares? Yeah. Um I will start first. Um what can people expect if they get to work with you as one of your clients?

SPEAKER_02 36:37

I'll often tell people because I do free 15-minute consultations, and so they'll say, What's your style? Um, and the way that I always like to say it is I like to get my hands dirty. And so I take on a limited amount of clients. I'm high investment level from me. I want them to feel really, really taken care of. I want them to feel my sense of presence when we're there. It is a place for other people to slow down. They have a busy, they have a hectic live, hectic lives. I have people that will come in and the whole time they're in the session with me, they'll be yawning. And I'm like, Do you usually yawn? Like in your and are you really tired? And it's like, no, it's so strange that I'm yawning here. And it's because they've calmed down. They're relaxed. It's the one hour of their week where they've relaxed. And so I really love to create a space that feels calm, aesthetic, and inviting. Um, and I'm then I like to get my hands dirty. So I kind of like to have a combination of like process-oriented, of like letting it organically flow with practical tools. So it's not like we're just gonna sit there and talk, but I'm gonna be in the weeds with people on whatever's going on, not just sitting there, kind of being like, that sounds so hard for you. I'm like, okay, let's get let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah, ask the tough questions and take them where they need to go. I love that so much. Okay, next question in the lightning round. What are three words that you would hope your clients would describe you as?

SPEAKER_02 37:51

This is this is hard. Thank you guys for sending me this question in advance. Um I came up with I came up with understood, challenged, and hopeful. Um, this is hard because I think I might say some other things too. I'd love for people to feel inspired and creative as well if they're my creative clients. But I think it's more important that people feel really seen and understood. Um, and that they feel challenged by me and that they ultimately feel hopeful. Like there's room to not always feel the way that they do right now.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

That's beautiful. I love that. I think hope is a very powerful thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Hope is so powerful. I want to start putting a hashtag on all my videos. It's like hope core. Anything I just like want to put hope. Like, can we just put out some more hope into the world?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Totally. Yes, I love it so much. Um, okay. What is a song you play to relax?

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Um, I my favorite song is Stacks by Bonavere. It's an older song.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Oh, yeah, Bonavere is my you don't understand song. Oh yeah, I know. This was banned when I was like, oh, Bon Ivor?

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yes, I used to say that too. Like before you know, right? How many people are listening that literally just said, oh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

So good. That's so good. Skinny love. No, but that yeah, skinny love is great, but stacks, it's a long song. It's very like melancholy in a good way. It's just so calming. Wait, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Avoid me, but is that the one that starts like, ooh, like is that the one that starts, or is that no?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

It starts with a gentle guitar.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Oh, okay. I gotta put that in.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

I know, oh, I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Um, blood bank. Blood bank. That's blood bank. That's okay. Sorry. So we are going to put Stacks link in Spotify on our show notes. And then we have one more song question. And we put these in here, number one, because we knew you were creative, but also we are very into music. Um my husband's a musician. But what is a song that you play when you're in a creative process or something that you go to to get that inspiration?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So per project, I create a playlist that I like to add things to. If it's a longer form project, if I'm like writing a script or doing or even a video online that's just gonna be more creatively, it's gonna be more storytelling, then I will have a playlist. Um, and I have a I have a way of getting, I'll get fixated on a song and I'll just listen to that song over and over and over. So it's hard for me to answer this because it changes. Um, it changes per project.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Well, I will say I think you could maybe even start publishing some of those playlists because maybe people would want to steal from your soundtrack. I love a good playlist, and when I find one, I will listen to it over and over.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Yes. The art of slowing down Spotify wrap-up. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Okay, okay, wait. I think we've slowed down enough to have some creative energy. So we just have a little moment of creative bursts. But Sarah, this has been such a delight, I would say is the word that comes to mind to get time with you. We know your schedule is crazy busy. Making time to come on bubbles and breakdowns means so very much to us. So thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Yeah. Thank you guys. You guys are so amazing and organized and like prepped for this so well and very easy to talk to. So you guys made this easy.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Oh, well, great. Well, we we heard so much great information today. Listeners out there, so many great reminders of how we can continue to slow down. We'll be putting some information about uh Sarah here in the show notes. So please check her out. Obviously, you know, follow her on Instagram. She's got some really interesting perspectives and some very creative reels out there that you might find inspiring, but only do it in the times that you should be looking at your phone, is just gonna say. And and also just want to say we're looking forward to, I don't know, Ashley having a little bit more play and fun in our lives after this conversation. I'm inspired for sure. Very inspired.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

And the biggest thing to remember is it's just micro moments. 30 micro moments of play, 30 micro moments of slowing down. This doesn't have to be a lifestyle overhaul.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I love it. And not everything is an emergency. Kick the tiger out of your room. Toast is just toast. Burnt toast is okay. It's just burnt toast. It's fine. And to our listeners, please remember after every breakdown, don't forget the bubbles.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

If you're loving us, please follow us on Instagram, listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast. And Sarah, thanks so much again. I know a lot of micromoments are going to be embedded into my life. Um, and keep listening. Slow down, everybody. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Slow down.