Perfection Not Required: Staying Curious About the Climate Crisis With Erin Sprague

What happens when the thing you love the most starts to deteriorate and change for the worse? And what happens when you take responsibility for protecting it?

This week’s guest was the youngest person to run a marathon on every continent and is currently serving as the first female CEO of Protect Our Winters. We are thrilled to welcome Erin Sprague to the podcast for a conversation about leadership when progress feels slow, transformational learning from failures, and staying curious about one of the biggest problems the world faces today: the climate crisis. 

One of the most important takeaways of this conversation is: you don’t have to be perfect in sustainability to step up and make a difference. Tackling the climate crisis isn’t about being the loudest voice in the room, or having all the answers. It’s about recognizing that if you care about clean water, clean air, and stable food systems, you’re already a part of this story. 

This episode will leave you feeling inspired and energized to get involved in climate solutions so we can create a future that’s rooted in collaboration, action, and hope.

Protect Our Winters helps turn the love, care, and passion for our planet into action by meeting people where they are at through community, education, and advocacy. If you’d like to learn more about POW and how you can get involved, visit: https://protectourwinters.org/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay, y'all. Welcome to the Redefine What's Possible podcast. I'm your host, Shannon Tisland. Thank you so much for being here today. And the question we're going to ask is what happens when the thing you love most, time outside, winter experiences you hope to share with your kids, it starts to change. And you decide to take responsibility for protecting that. My guest today has run marathons on every continent, led some of the most iconic outdoor brands in the world, and now serves as the first female CEO of Protect Our Winters. I also want to share some context up front. Experience Momentum, who I'm the founder and CEO of, has been a proud brand alliance partner of Protect Our Winters, and we've hosted our Winter Stoke event since 2019 to raise funds and advocate for the places we love outdoors. It's been one of the highlights of our community, and it's part of why this conversation matters so much to me today. This conversation isn't just about climate. And it's about how we keep showing up without burning out when the stakes are high. Because the changes we're seeing aren't just happening on mountaintops or in ski towns. They're showing up in our water, our food, our energy systems, and the predictability of everyday life, no matter where we live. Snowpack, droughts, floods, heat waves, these aren't isolated issues. They're signals of a system under strain that touches all of us. And when we respond together, maybe imperfectly, but consistently, we protect what we love and build a movement that lasts. So with me today, I have Aaron Sprague, CEO of Protect Our Winters. Aaron, I'm so grateful you're here for this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

I'm so grateful to be with one of our community members. And next time, I promise we'll be on a churl after a trail, not in a podcast studio, but this is a close second.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

I would love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I did grow up in the Adirondacks. It's this really special part of upstate New York. It has its own culture. It's it's very similar to New England. And my town was near all these beautiful lakes. And when I grew up, outdoors was just what we did. And not to date ourselves here, Shannon, but this was pre-internet and pre-smartphones. And the decisions I make with my kids today are a little bit different. But we grew up, I'm one of four, we grew up as free range kids. And we were just out in the neighborhood in the streams. We were at the mountain every weekend. My siblings and I were competitive runners and Nordic ski racers. My dad was on ski patrol at our local mountain. So we would constantly be trying to not get in trouble with his coworkers because we were always skiing in the woods and just having fun and being kids. And I just feel that that's been a thread all the way through to today.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

That's beautiful. I didn't quite grow up in the Adirondacks. I grew up in a small one-stop light farm town in Iowa, but that free range, I was outside in the farm fields and the woods doing all the things. And it's just something magical that grounds you. And I'm so grateful for that experience. And thank you for sharing that. I'm curious, you mentioned competitive running. How did movement in nature shape who you are becoming as a kiddo?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Growing up, it was just kind of what we did. In high school, we had really active sports teams. My friends were all athletes. And I remember trying a few different things, being on a bunch of different team sports. I'm really tall, so I did basketball for a while. And I just really fell in love with running. I had this amazing coach who was a big mentor and teammates. I don't even think I realized at the time how special and rare those teammate relationships are growing up. And I just loved running and I loved cross country. I always had to do track, and it was like, oh, track. What I loved was the trails and the spirit of adventure. And we'd be out running on these remote trails all throughout our backyard and then deeper into the mountains where we grew up. And it was such a sense of freedom and independence. And I think for young kids, it also gives you a lot of confidence. You learn how to fail and get back up. You learn how to win. You learn how to be a part of a whole. And I just feel really grateful today to still get to work with athletes because I still get to see that and be a part of that, even if my competitive days are very well in the rear view at this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

That really resonates with me. I have a teenage daughter and she's gotten into cross-country running. And it is her passion. And to just what you said, have her watch her from the outside go through the struggles of like, oh, I didn't have this run and having teamwork to come together to build each other back up. There's just so many life lessons happening at that age that I can rewind and see, like, oh, okay, I get where you're coming from, Aaron. And I'm I'm curious, when did the outdoors stop being something you did and start being maybe a part of your identity?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Well, not right away. Others, I took a different road to start. So when I graduated from college, I ran all the way through college and loved that experience too. And when you graduate, all of a sudden you've been in this super structured team world for a long time. And I went to New York City. Maybe not the first thought when you think of a hot spot of outdoor activity, but one of the great things about New York is there are communities there. I became a cyclist in New York for the first time. And uh triathlon, I joined a triathlon club. We used to swim in these really truthfully disgusting pools and basements in New York City to get our training in. And I wasn't a very good swimmer, so I sort of had to learn how to do that. But my first job was in finance. And it was just I was graduating, I needed a job. I didn't know anything about finance. And so I had this curiosity for learning the business world and worked in that for five years. And what I found as I was in it was I was learning so much. I again had really good mentorship. But I realized that the best part of my day was the bike ride or the run or even the swim in that basement pool before I was going to work. And that was when I started running marathons, and marathons became a way to impact others positively, to fundraise for nonprofits. And that was when I really started to question wait a minute, the best part of my day is this other thing I do outside of work. Is there a way to bring those together? And that was ultimately what I set out to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Amazing. So this is a great segue. In 2008, you became the youngest woman to run a marathon on every continent. Now, when I think of that, I'm like, wow, amazing. I'm curious about the other side. What was that like going for you? Did you have that goal to be the youngest person, or was it something that ensued from just your love of running?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

It was kind of a mix. So when I was in this corporate job in New York, running became a way. I'd always been a runner, but it became a way to really balance out the challenge and stress of that job. And so running just started to take a new identity, whereas it was once competition, now it became more about mental strength and processing and having time and space to myself. And what I love about marathons is there's this idea in a marathon. There's this expression. If you want to have hope in humanity, go watch a marathon. And it's so true. If you go watch the New York marathon, the Chicago marathon, Boston, they're just so uplifting. And I love them because there's this spirit of everyone as a winner just by being there. It's one of the few athletic events where all of the amateurs line up on the exact same starting line as all of the professionals. And I think sometimes we have a narrow view of what success looks like. And in my world, up until that point, success looked being fast at running. And I started to feel a different definition of success in doing these marathons. Everyone, no matter how hard you train, something goes wrong, something is hard. They're never easy. I mean, I've done 30 now, but every time it could be mile 20, it could be mile 12. Once it was mile seven, why am I doing this? This is so hard. And there's something important to that. And when I started really doing them, I realized I don't have a lot of vacation. I like to run. I'm going to combine running and vacation. And then I also found out that there were people who ran on every continent. And they happened to be a bit older than I was at the time. So just by having a creative mindset, I found this different definition of success, which was traveling, doing these races, and then ultimately becoming the youngest person to do it, which was really about the story of that. And we ended up creating a nonprofit and giving to organizations around the world to help other young people get into sport, whether it was running or soccer or others. And it it just became this vehicle where I was, wait a minute, sport is transformative and it drives change in all these other areas beyond just participating in the race.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

So for listeners out there, Aaron just ran a marathon on seven continents. And what I love about you sharing that story is I'm sure there were many moments where quitting felt like the logical choice and you just continued to go through. But you also you paired this. What I'm hearing is you paired this with your love of running and an external cause, like the nonprofit that you created. Can you back up a little bit? And how did that come to be?

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Well, part of it was when I was growing up, I mean, sport was a way I got to see and experience the world. I grew up in a small town, and I don't know that I would have gone to the college I went to without both the experience and conditioning of sport. And so when I started this marathon project, at first it was about, okay, let's set this record. And then I noticed people were really intrigued by it. And when you can get someone to pause and pay attention, this is a real marketing 101 lesson. It matters. It means something. And so then I think the question is, well, what are you gonna do with that? And ultimately I decided to start an organization because we had this great story. People were so intrigued by running in Antarctica. How cold is it? Are there penguins? Um, the answer is not as cold as I thought it was gonna be. That's a story that leads to climate change. And yes, there were penguins. And we ended up being able to do some good from that. And running is a community that has a really strong track record of philanthropy. So I also felt a part of this space where that was a little bit of an expectation to step up in that way.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Thank you for sharing that. And I'm curious when I think about uh running, it's endurance, and the game of life is endurance. What did uh running teach you about discomfort and then also patience?

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Running is probably the greatest teacher I've ever had, with no disrespect to Harvard and Stanford professors who did their best. But there is in running, I mean, things go wrong more than they go right, especially in a long race. In a long race, you have a lot of opportunities to make mistakes. Maybe your shoe comes untied, maybe your training wasn't optimized, maybe you forget to take your gel at mile three, maybe you just hurt at mile 20, and that's how it goes. And so overcoming that has been something I've learned. And one of my biggest learnings is that I've learned very little actually from my successes. Every time I've had transformational learning, it's come from a failure, quote unquote, or really an opportunity to learn and do better.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

That's so true. You're bringing me back to my first marathon that I tried training for. And at 16 weeks, I got a stress fracture in my foot, and I was so just disappointed. I spent all this time, but it taught me I went out too fast, too hard. And sometimes you have to go slow to go fast. Came back the next year and was able to learn from my mistakes, similar to what you said, and that's such a good theme, and I can see that coming from endurance sports. So, yeah. Aaron, talk to me about leadership, especially in climate work. It feels a long ultra marathon. How do those endurance experiences shape how you now lead teams and movements?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Well, climate work is, yes, an ultra marathon. It's also uphill the entire way. It's pouring rain, there is mud on your face, there's someone pushing you down the hill, and yet we're still smiling and and going forward. So climate change is such an interesting challenge. And I actually attribute my marathon project with cultivating this interest. I didn't realize it at the time, but when I went and ran in Antarctica, we were on the boat with all climate scientists, and this was 2008. And I just remember being captivated by what they were saying. It was a dialogue I had never heard before about warming and temperature change and the impact that was going to have on pretty much everything and the way that we live. And I ended up spending a long time in the outdoor industry before getting into climate. But climate is just this fascinating problem set because we actually have all of the science and technology today to solve it. So think about all these other problems in the world. We unfortunately don't have the science today to cure cancer. We don't have the science today to travel to Mars. Some achievements that would surely push humanity forward. We have the solution to climate change. We just have to stop burning fossil fuels. That is fundamentally what it's about. It's our our energy sources and the way that we've built our buildings, our transportation systems, the way that we eat, live, work, and consume. They're rooted in a source of energy that when we first started using it, we didn't know these consequences, but now we do. And now the challenge is really human nature and public will and creating some of this systemic change at every level. So that challenge to me is really similar to the journey I went through in running. It's it's not just about performance, it's actually about creativity and resilience to find a pathway through it.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I'm curious, you mentioned before entering the outdoor space and protect our winners, you worked at brands such as Virgin Sport, Aspen Sean Company, and Specialized. And then you're on this boat with these scientists. I'm curious, what did you learn about human behavior through your journey through the corporate world, maybe, that now shows up at Protect Our Winters?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Most of my jobs were rooted in human behavior. So when I started at specialized, I led the women's brand and product line. And at the time, women were a minority in cycling. There were questions of, well, we're not really sure if women ride bikes. And I was, well, I'm a woman who rides bikes, so there's at least one of us. So I've been tasked with building this business and category and creating the right bikes for these riders who it sounds have been overlooked. And fundamentally, we had to convince a group of people in the cycling industry that there was a reality happening that they didn't see. And not only was there this amazing reality happening of our sport was expanding to a new market, but we had the capabilities to serve that market and grow our business. So that's the ultimate win-win. Those things don't always align. And when I was at Specialize, I worked with this absolutely formidable group of young, dogged, persistent women who were, we see this happening and we're gonna drive this change. And we did it. The category grew, I mean, it more than doubled over the next couple of years. And so what we're facing in climate is really similar. We have to show people that something exists that's really important and show that we can build the systems that exist around it in a productive way.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

That's a great example. Thank you so much for sharing that. And as a husband of a woman who we're going to our first Seattle Torrent ice hockey game tonight. And 20 years ago, my wife was an Olympian in women's ice hockey, and there was no professional team to step into. Women's sports were an afterthought. And tonight, 20 years later, we're going to this game and it's come full circle. We're waking up to just the impact that women have in all aspects of sport of activity and climate change. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Sorry to interrupt, but it reminds me of those shirts. Everyone watches women's sports, the women's soccer teams that are sprouting up everywhere. 20 years ago, this was not the reality. People didn't believe in this being a viable event that fans would go to. And I remember being at specialized and seeing something different in the world of cycling. And it's the exact same. You sort of start as this countercultural movement, and you have to build that belief, and then you have to show its impact in ways we understand, which is typically through economic growth. And then it becomes obvious. And what we forget is the decades-long journey that took us to get there.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Absolutely. So powerful. I'm curious, Aaron, in your industry, what do you think motivates people more than facts? Right. When we're talking about human behavior, we're trying to create some positive change. The facts many times don't seem to land. There's got to be something deeper.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

We have to motivate people with what they care about. So I think a mistake that the climate movement has inadvertently made. I mean, people who work on climate are some of the most heartfelt, assistant, knowledgeable people I've ever met. It's it's a really kind, inclusive group. It's sort of like come down. If you want to help, we want you to come in. But where I think it went astray was it got a little too wonky and a little too policy based. And that's because the way we solve this is through energy solutions. And that's that happens to also be very wonky and hard for everyday people to understand. And the way I think about it is well, what has motivated humans throughout history? In any domain. And that's the power of emotionally resonant storytelling. And I just, I think storytelling has gotten sort of a bad rap. People feel it's soft. And wait a minute. This is one of the things that has persisted since the days of humans around campfires to today, in the most technologically advanced age we've we've ever seen, at least on our planet. So I go back to what do people care about? And for us in our community, that's the outdoors. What is the emotional resonance that they feel? And how do we connect these big issues to the ways that they live their lives and what matters to them?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

That's so powerful. And when we talk about the outdoors, we we need to talk about the farmers as much as we talk about the skiers, as much as we talk about maybe the hunters, right? The different groups that are all recreating in the outdoors or have that impact. I'm curious, what do you believe doesn't work when you're trying to create change with people?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Preaching. I think showing up and saying how you're right and someone else is wrong. I mean, how many times does that work? It doesn't work with my kids, it doesn't work ego's flare. Yeah. And I think it's hard because we are in a reality now where somehow the truth seems to be less valuable than it once was. And that's something we need to confront at a much higher level. But I think there are points of connection that you wouldn't expect if we sit down and truly collaborate and focus on something as simple as clean air, clean water. How do we get it for our children? I mean, that's a question I think everyone would want to answer positively.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I think that's a we're trying to figure that out in the industry that I'm in, which is healthcare. We can't have a healthy body without a healthy planet. And how do we connect the dots to, as a species, we need clean air, clean food, clean water. And where does that come from, this one planet? And it's the message, it's tricky to get that message through because we take it for granted. We breathe this air all day long. But what are the particles in it? What is the air quality these days? And so, yeah, it's it's tricky. And I like where you're going with that.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, absolutely. And some of the most successful advocates with the EPA right now, which is frankly at the end of 2025 headed in a pretty dangerous direction in not ensuring that there are protections for clean air and clean water. Some of the best advocates with them have been people focused on health outcomes. Conservatives in in movements that are focused on health have have really managed to break through. And that's valuable. It doesn't matter what perspective someone comes from if we're focused on the same outcome in healthier communities.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

So well said. Yes. Erin, let's transition a little bit to you becoming POW's first female CEO. That's a meaningful milestone. And I imagine it carries maybe both pride and pressure, sometimes spoken, sometimes unspoken. What have you noticed showing up for you internally as you've stepped into that role?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Great question. I used to work at a company that had this great theory and expression. They used to say, admire the problem, not the solution. I'm a first-time CEO. So I often think I have a ways to go to get good at this. I have hopefully decades ahead of me of doing this work. So I take that time frame, and the number one driver for me in doing this work is curiosity. I wake up most mornings really obsessed with the problem of climate change. And the solution pathways we haven't cracked yet because we haven't solved it. So I stay really rooted in the problem, like what we're up against, and how can we keep evolving to tackle it better? And how can I show up for our team so that, like any team, our whole is greater than our part and we're getting there together. And so I actually find curiosity to be one of the most powerful tools to remove some of the pressure because it's definitely there. But the the pressure I feel now is about the urgency of the problem and how we do our very best to show up to meet it.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

I love the word curiosity. I feel there's just it it keeps all possibilities on the table. There's not a fixed way of doing things or whatever that might be. And speaking of curiosity, I'm curious what part of being a CEO has surprised you the most?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I have a mentor who told me that people who become CEOs are either corrupt or insane. And I was, well, I am sure I'm not corrupt, but I'm not sure I'm not insane. So I fall into the ladder. But I think what surprised me most is sitting in this seat. Your job is to actually see around corners. And it's to be someone who can synthesize what's happening and where the organization needs to go, and then getting everyone there. And there's always a little bit of a lag because you're sitting in a different seat with a different view out the window. So my surprise has been really having to root in the confidence of that perspective. And I've always rooted a lot in data as a former CMO. A lot of that work now comes from what the market is telling you. And I've actually learned to trust instinct more and to trust pattern recognition. And I think I'm still early in that journey, but that's probably one of the biggest skills I want to develop.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Do you find that butts up against with, ooh, I'm feeling this and it's not what other leaders, team members are saying? Is there a struggle there?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Absolutely. And that's partially because of what we're up against. I mean, we're tackling one of the hardest problems that there is, and also a problem that is no longer in the mainstream consciousness. So there's this disparity where climate is more urgent than it's ever been and getting worse. And because of our current, I don't know what you want to call it, social dynamic politics, people are busy. I don't know. It's it's not being prioritized. And so I'm having to lead an organization through a really hard period of transformation to meet the moment.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Okay. Aaron, segueing just a little bit, Powell often talks about the quote unquote outdoor state. It's this idea that if you bring together everyone who loves being outside, they already form one of the largest and most powerful communities in the country. When you talk about the outdoor state, who are you really talking about?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Anyone who loves the outdoors. And we intentionally keep that super inclusive because what we need to do in climate needs numbers. We need to move climate up the list of how people vote, what types of leaders we elect, what we hold our CEOs and other influencers accountable to. And there's a template for this. If you look at the parallel issue of gun rights, the NRA, love them or hate them, they have about 5 million members. And there are fewer gun owners in the US than there are outdoor lovers, participants, enthusiasts. And so we have the opportunity of a much larger base, but we have the challenge of fragmentation. And so our goal is to create a wider tent and bring more people in and give a real pathway to influencing climate solutions. And someone said to me once, well, Aaron, you'll never be the NRA because they're fighting to not lose something. And I just looked at this person and I was, we are fighting not to lose something. And we need to help people see that. And as we're recording, winter just started. We've had one of the worst starts to winter on record. Colorado, Utah, Tahoe, some of the resorts aren't even open. We have a trillion-dollar industry in the outdoor industry that is facing floods, wildfires, low snowfall, weather disruptions. And so there is an economic force behind this. And our goal is to bring people together to elevate the importance of an invisible odorless gas that is slowly boiling us all alive.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Erin, that's so powerful. And as people are listening to this, they may not think of themselves as maybe an outdoor athlete, but we are all outdoors. And our listeners, maybe you just care about clean water, predictable seasons, taking your kids outside, feeling connected to the places that you live. This is the outdoor state, right? This is all of us. And how do we connect to that? How does POW help people recognize that they already belong to this movement?

SPEAKER_00 32:31

We bring them in. And it's funny what we hear. Sometimes we hear, oh, I only ski 10 days a year, so probably not right for POW. And I'm like, are you kidding? If you walk outside to brunch, you are right for PO. We want anyone who loves time and nature to see themselves as a part of this. And we do a lot of work at what marketers would call the top of the funnel to reach some of these people. So we're launching new sport categories all the time. POW is in snow and ski, of course, that was our original route. But we've grown to cycling, climbing, water, running. And our fastest growth now is actually coming from summer sports. So I have the awesome first world problem of a poorly named organization, Protect Our Winters, when our fastest growth is in the summer. But I'll take that problem any day. What we see is historically it was the snow athletes who could see this up close and personal. When Jeremy Jones, who is one of the best big mountain snowboarders in the world, founded POW in 2007. I mean, think how visionary that was. And Inconvenient Truths, Al Gore's work that really put climate change into the public sphere, that happened in 2006. And Jeremy's perspective was not one of a scientist. He had he partnered with scientists much later, but he was just out almost every day in winter and throughout the year in really extreme conditions. And he was, this snow is changing. Something is wrong. So we've had this field experience informing our perspective for a long time. And now what's happening is communities that maybe weren't on the front lines are seeing impacts. So maybe that's someone who lives in New York City who all of a sudden can't go running because it's smoky, or someone in Minnesota who's never had a fire before we've had out west. And that's a part of what we need to do. We need to bring more people in. Sadly, it often comes through these felt natural disasters and extreme weather events and communities, but we really have to build the base to be able to apply the pressure we need for change.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

I was in Iowa visiting family two summers ago, and we actually had to go inside because of all the forest fires from Canada coming down. And it was one of those things where I've lived in Iowa for almost 50 years. I've never smelled forest fire smoke ever. And so it was a wake-up call. And I think to your point, it's affecting us all in some capacity. It would be great to turn that into action. And Pau uses the phrase imperfect advocacy, which I really love. What does imperfect advocacy actually look like in real life? And why is that permission to be imperfect so important right now?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

It means that you don't have to be perfect yourself in sustainability to step up and make a difference. So a lot of our community members come to us and say things, oh, I take a lot of airplane flights. I sometimes don't recycle. And that is okay. We are all humans and we don't control the systems we live in. You don't actually have direct control over what type of fuel goes into the airline that you fly. And we need to help people understand that climate solutions happen at a systemic, not individual level. So sure, you can recycle all you want. Your company can decarbonize its supply chain. That's awesome. Do it. That is showing up with the values that you believe in. But to really solve this, it actually has to come from coordinated top-down action. And that really happens at a government level with regulations that level the playing field to achieve a type of outcome that influences us all. And a lot of people don't understand the numbers of it's really fossil fuel usage and companies that drive the majority of emissions. And those same companies are spending a lot of money on elections and advertising to convince us all that we need to recycle more. And we have to call truth to that. Fossil fuel companies build advertising campaigns around them. That should be a massive red flag of wait a minute, something is off here. So we call it the last stand of the dinosaur bones. These companies are on their way out over time. It creates a more diverse and sustainable energy base. If you don't believe me, go look at what China is doing right now. They have launched more solar panels in the past couple months than the rest of the world has in years. And so they're making a real bet on what the future of energy is going to be in an age when energy consumption is growing. So do not let perfection be a barrier. That is a dialogue that has been advertised by fossil fuel companies to keep a broken status quo.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

That's so important. And again, for someone who's listening and they say, I care. I'm not perfect. I don't know enough to speak up. What would you want them to hear? Is that voting doll? Like, who are you voting for? Look behind the, let's pull the curtain back a little bit, be more informed. What do you think that might be?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

This is one of the hardest things because taking action on climate doesn't have the equivalent of a beach cleanup. You can't go and clean something up and see an immediate result. Climate solutions are about changing systems. So, what are the ways that we as individuals can do that? So the first thing I encourage everyone to do is just learn. Learn about this. It is, I guarantee, once you open that can of worms, me, you might never stop. You might be endlessly curious because climate solutions affect every single part of the way that we live. You can find solutions in food, in energy, in buildings, in everything. The next thing is you have to join a movement. You have to have collective power in all of this. POW is one. You can join Team POW for free on our website. Those numbers really help. When we go to DC to lobby for better legislation for clean energy incentives, we will show up to an office and say, we have a thousand Team POW members in your district. And then the other way that you can really influence a systemic solution is through voting. So the biggest party in the US is not the Democratic Party. It's the I didn't vote party. And so the disengaged out there, you really make a difference at a local, state, and federal level when you show up to vote. And not only voting yourself, the best way to increase turnout, this is so hilarious to me, is peer pressure. You need to tell other people that you voted. There are higher returns when other people feel spotlighted. And I'll just remind everyone out there, in case you don't know, whether you vote or not is public record. So before I hire someone, before I consider a partner, I can see whether you voted. So just keep that, keep that in mind. If you really need a motivation, I will judge you for not voting.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

That's brilliant. So, and what I'm really hearing is that POW isn't asking people to become something new, it's inviting them to bring who they already are into this work. And that just feels so incredibly important right now. And I would like to just pause for a moment and speak directly to our listeners out there. Protect our winners isn't about being the loudest voice in the room or having all the answers. It's about recognizing that if you care about clean water, stable food system, safe community, or taking your kids outside, you're already a part of this story. POW helps people turn that care into action by meeting them where they are through community education and advocacy that doesn't require perfection. You don't have to change who you are to belong. You just have to care enough to show up. Aaron, when you hear that, what do you most want people to know about their role in this moment in time?

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Exactly what you just said. I'm gonna write that down and share it more broadly. It's really to show up and it's to prioritize this among so much. We all have jobs and kids and pets and plants and homes and life is busy. But this is one of the ones that we can solve. I am an eternal climate optimist because I believe in the ability of humans to come together and forge the right future. And in this moment where it can feel a little bit dark, something our POW founder says is never underestimate being on the right side of history. And a cleaner, cheaper energy future is the right side of history. So I just want everyone to, I mean, in a perfect world, wake up me, just obsessed with this problem. But given that we're imperfect advocates, just show up. Come to a PAL event, think about it when you vote, stand where leaders in your community have a position or don't have a position on climate.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Thank you for that. So, Aaron, you're leading a national climate organization, and you're also a parent raising two daughters and skiing with them in the mountains. I have four kiddos also. We love to ski. I'm curious, how do you talk about climate change with your kids in a way that protects their sense of wonder?

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Ooh. Well, kids are the ultimate vehicles of wonder. So I learn from them on that on the daily, just the small things they notice. And kids are so much wiser and more observant than maybe we give them credit for. They understand that. That low snowfall isn't normal. It's December, and it's going to be 80 degrees Fahrenheit in Denver today. And they're like, mom, why is it so warm? It's it's supposed to snow at Christmas. And they understand it. And they understand that things are changing, even my six-year-old. And so my hope is that kids help us solve this. And the sadness I feel is how much their generation is going to absorb some of these impacts. We are already living different lives. And the severity of those impacts is going to increase. So while I believe something, the energy transition will eventually happen, it is urgent. And that's something that we need to see from our leadership in terms of what we prioritize and the courage that it takes to do that.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Absolutely. And that's something we always try to, I think with being a skiing family, we're out in the mountains and it creates a conversation of this isn't normal. The entire highway from Seattle to Stevens Pass was washed out in both directions. So there's no way to access it. And so that creates this question of if the temperatures were seven degrees lower, we would have probably three feet of snow in the mountains, and the the water that washed out the roads would be frozen up in the mountains. So our kids get that, that they're intelligent. And so, any any words of advice for our listeners out there on how to bring this up to kids?

SPEAKER_00 45:38

I think you can trust them with having a conversation largely about what they observe and also what they love. My kids are on the ski team and they'll be like, Mom, it's all icy and it's not fun, and we want powder. And so we we talk about why that is. And I stay out of the deep intricacies of the energy transition and our electric grid. Maybe when they're 10, I'll broach that conversation. But but yeah, just even showing them even small decisions. We decided to get an electric vehicle a couple years ago. Again, a perfect advocate. You don't have to do that. You can do that when you're ready and when it's right in your life, and when you can make that decision. The more important thing is advocating for clean energy on your grid where that electricity comes from. But we made that purchase decision, and that was an opportunity to talk about why we chose an E over a gas-powered car. And so it's sort of small things that they're very into composting. That's another place that we talk. So that's a place where individual actions can be resonant. And then it's up to the adults to change systems. So I think that's part of the difference.

unknown 46:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Thank you for that. So, Aaron, I want to come back to something we opened with a little bit earlier. Times when things are tough, when progress is slow, I'm curious what are the principles that keep you moving forward? And it could be something like community over isolation or progress over perfection, which we've named. I'm curious if there you, Aaron, have any principles that anchor you.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Well, if you go back to our conversation about running and marathons, there is expression and marathoning that I use every time, which is to run the mile you're in. And it's not about what's going to happen in 10 miles because you're going to be a different human in 10 miles. So you just need to get to the next mile marker. So at PAL, we celebrate small wins. Last month, we helped pass a small solar project in New Mexico. I wouldn't even call that a small win right now. That's a big win when we're getting more clean energy on the grid. So we really try to celebrate all of that. And we really try to root in curiosity, another theme we've we've talked about. So, how can we just get a little bit better each day? How can we understand the problem a little bit more so that we're targeting the best possible solution for the moment.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

I'm that run the mile you're in is just brilliant. I'm all how can I shannon be more present? Is one of the principles I'm always trying to stay grounded in. And that that point of view is beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Erin, I really appreciate you taking the time to connect on all the things today. Before we wrap up, I want to lighten things up a bit and give our listeners a chance to hear a cue a few quick human snapshots of who you are and how you move through the world. And then we'll come back and talk with the practicality about how people can engage with protect our winners. How does that sound?

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Okay. So, rapid fire questions. Aaron, what is a book that has impacted you and how you operate in the world?

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Ooh, I will highlight anything that Bill McKibben writes. He wrote a book in the 80s, the 1980s, to be clear, about the end of nature. And it's sort of a depressing title, but he really called what was gonna happen way back then. And he has a new book out on clean energy. He's a big mentor to me. He was one of the early activists in this work. He is older now and often puts himself on the front lines of everything. And I just admire what he's built and what he's created. He also has a newsletter for anyone who wants to learn, learn in a more digestible way about climate.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

What is the hardest mile you've ever run? And what did it teach you?

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Oh man, there have been so many. I think the last year being in climate work has been the hardest mile, honestly. We ran a beautiful mile right before this. The inflation reduction act passed. It was the largest climate legislation ever during the Biden administration. Talent was moving into climate at the highest levels, and all of that has been reversed. And I think it's natural for people to ask, gosh, am I working on something that's winnable? And the role I take with our team every day is to help them see this is a hard mile and we're gonna feel better next mile, and we're gonna keep running the marathon. So, but we have to be honest. It's been a very, very hard year to do this work.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Absolutely. Absolutely. What is one place in nature that instantly refills your energy?

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Being on the trails. I mean, pretty much any trail anywhere. I live in Boulder, and there are 200 miles of trails accessible from where I live. So I can get a quick appetizer or snack if I need it, or I could go spend eight hours if my husband is feeling generous on a Saturday. So yeah, I would say just being on a trail. It's so simple and it's so transformative, and that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Aaron, what's one habit that keeps you grounded in the moment?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

I would say pausing and taking a breath. And instead of jumping right into solving or pushing something forward. When I was at Specialize, we had a bike that was built for a cobblestone race environment. And the slogan of the bike was smoother is faster. And I really believe that sometimes you have to slow down to speed up.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Okay, Aaron. And my last question: what does redefining what's possible mean to you today?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Redefining what's possible for me is a future that's rooted in collaboration, not polarization, where people feel closer, not further apart, where people feel healthier, not sicker, and where we root in what really deeply matters to us. For me, that's my family, the outdoors, and working on something big, hard, and important. And I want everyone to feel that and want to create a future where people feel the goodness, not all the challenges and darkness that seem to have risen recently. And so I've chosen to be a part of the solution in creating that future. And we welcome anyone who loves the outdoors to join us.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

That really resonates. Erin, thank you. Not just for the work you're doing at Protect Our Winters, but for just how you lead with honesty, with endurance, with your heart. For anyone out there listening, here's a couple takeaways that I have from our conversation. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be an expert. You just have to care enough to participate. And maybe my favorite is now run the mile that you're in. And for someone listening right now who feels connected to this but isn't sure where to start, what are one or two meaningful ways they can engage with Protect Our Winters in a way that fits real life?

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Start by learning. Sign up for our email. We do a lot of digestible climate education there. Show up to an event if we're in your area. We tend to be in the Northeast and Mountain West. And thanks to our partners, Pacific Northwest. And join the team. Join T Pow. Become involved. You can show up and do advocacy actions with us. You can show up for a ski day. We have all different flavors. We structure green circle, blue square, and black diamond climate participation. So don't feel that you'll be put on a trail before you're ready for it. And it's also a lot of fun. The most fun I have is when I go to a PAL event. There are usually some pretty well-known, impressive athletes there. There are usually some first timers, and it's designed to create the movement that's going to create the public will and cultural power that we need to get to these bigger solutions. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

So we'll link Protect Our Winners in the show notes, along with their ways to learn more about POW and become a part of this outdoor state. Erin, I'm deeply grateful for your time, for your leadership. And this has been an absolute pleasure. And I really hope that we can be on the chairlift sometime in the future. So, for our listeners out there, keep redefining what's possible and have a great day.