Exploring Leadership, Legacy, and Presence with Mark Canlis

In this week’s episode of the Redefine What’s Possible podcast, Shanon sits down with Mark Canlis—third-generation owner of famed Seattle fine dining destination, Canlis—for a conversation about leadership, legacy, presence, and the secret ingredient of life: love.

For Mark’s grandfather and founder of Canlis, success meant being the greatest restaurant in the world. Today, Mark’s philosophy goes way beyond providing a great dining experience. Success means caring deeply for the people around you, whether that’s guests coming in to enjoy a meal, or the team members working alongside you. It’s about a passion for hospitality, a culture of care, and creating a place where people can be their whole, authentic selves. 

Mark didn’t just inherit a restaurant. He inherited a host of values and principles that continue to guide him today. This episode is an inspiring story about daring to care, being present, and choosing to run a business not driven by fear, but firmly rooted in hope and love. 

Transcript

All right, y'all, welcome back to the Redefine What's Possible podcast where we explore the stories, mindset and deeper questions that lead us to expand what we believe is possible in our health, leadership, relationships and lives. Today's guest is someone I've admired for a long time. Mark Canlis is a third generation owner of Canlis, one of the most iconic restaurants in America. But this conversation is not really about restaurants today.

It's about legacy, leadership, reinvention, family, faith, and what it takes to keep becoming when life keeps changing around you. What I've also appreciated about Mark is not just his creativity, but his ability to stay curious, keep moving forward, and continue rebuilding through transition. And I think that matters because a lot of people listening may not be leading a restaurant, but they are leading something, a business.

family, a team, a season of transition, or even just the quieter work of trying to stay true to ourselves while carrying a lot. Mark, I'm really glad you're here. Thank you. For those who may know the Canlis name but not really know you, you've been spending years stewarding one of Seattle's most iconic restaurants through legacy, reinvention, and a lot of transition. When you think about this season of life,

What's the most honest word for it? Glorious? I'm looking at the sun just come out, right? It's been raining on us for four days. I'm looking at spring unfolding, and I'm super aware of bombs falling on other people in other places. And I can't not be thankful for today, for the gift of today, for the safety of today, for the mystery of today, the opportunity, the tragedy, all of it.

I just feel like this is a glorious trip that we're on. I'm hearing presence, like you're present. I try to be. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, I think our presence is one of the most sacred things that we can offer. And at least at home for us as a family, that's one of the goals. How do we show up for one another at work? It's one of the goals. What does it look like to be present in the lives of a stranger for dinner, for two hours, for three hours, sometimes longer?

I just think that our presence is such a gift. To be in the company of another human being, that is a glorious three hours. I don't care who they are. Every person on the planet to me has that same wonder inside of them. And I think when we attune ourselves to the other in that way, we ourselves are just receiving in incredible ways. There's a lot of people out there I don't agree with, but the sanctity of their presence. I believe to be human is to be of value, regardless of the way we may disagree.

Yeah, so that's what I'm... So yeah, I think there's just something glorious about the way we all get to share this planet together. That's beautiful. I'm curious, Mark, people see the public version of you and the owner of Canlis leading this legacy. And for someone new who might just meet, meeting you, is there a difference between the role of owner of Canlis and the person, Mark? Yeah, I dress differently. I just don't wear suits around town.

That's just not, who does that anymore? I hope what you get at work at that restaurant is what you get sitting around the fire here, goofing off in the yard or just cooking a meal at home. I'd be a big believer in trying not to separate church and state in here and in us. Maybe that's a good idea politically or something, but I think from a human perspective, there's this temptation that we show up one way at work and another way at home. And we're just not two people. That...

desire to disintegrate in that way, to pull apart in that way. Let me say it differently. I feel an invitation to create workspaces that don't ask people to do that. And I think what we found at Canlis is that what really connects with the guest more than anything else is authenticity. Not that you're coming to dinner to hang out with a server. You're not, I'm not. I'm going to dinner and hang out with my wife, with friends. But there's something about a place, we all feel this, right? You walk into a space.

it's whatever it is, a library, a coffee shop, or run into some people and you're just like, man, those people are just comfortable in their own skin. And you get this sense, I could spend time with that person. I could road trip with them. There's something about that. I get that with like old people on benches. What is it about old people? You just sit down with them. There is a peace about them and a stillness that is welcoming. And I crave that for myself, to be the kind of person with a welcoming stillness such that.

Our very presence is an invitation for the other to be themselves, wholly, freely themselves. I hope I'm doing that at home. I hope I'm doing that at work. The honest truth is I'm probably screwing it up in both ways. But we can hope, right? I can dream here. Indeed. Is that something that has always just been who you are or is that something that you've had to cultivate? know. I ain't gonna lean on the nurture side. think I have, growing up, I've been just exposed to just some

awesome people and if I'm journaling on why they're awesome, I think that's a theme that keeps coming up. I've had the privilege of just having mentors and people in my world that have come along and put their arm around me and when I reflect on the warmth of that experience, it's always in that same vein and I think we walk along our lives and we start to realize what it is that we want, what it is that we're truly desiring. There's a lot of stuff that's attractive out there but

Just because it's attractive doesn't mean we want it. And if we think about what we're thinking about, I think we start to say to ourselves, wait a second, what I really desire is this over here. And so for me, I'm 51, so for me, it's a stage of life where I have the space a little bit to say, okay, who am I becoming? What do I want here? What do I want for my kids? Any of us raising kids are trying to figure that out. How do we awaken that inside of them and be present for their journey in that? And then at work, we're doing that constantly. There is this question of what?

How can Canlis come alongside? What do you need tonight? Literally, what do you want to eat? What do you want for your memories, your evening, your this space, this thing that you've brought us? How do we protect it, cherish it, uplift it? And so, yeah, get to do it at work, and I think of work as a crucible that forces me into that space, and I'm so thankful for that. It's hard work, and also thank goodness it has made me.

invited me into that and give me the space to practice that out loud and fumble it all up and try again the next night. Fantastic, fantastic. So Mark, I want to go back for a minute because so much of how we live or lead, even how we define ourselves begins with what we inherit. And the Canlis story is such a rich story. When you think about what you inherited, what feels beautiful to you? Being loved.

won the family lottery. I don't know how that works, but when I think of what I inherited, I was born into a family that was pretty open and pretty straightforward on the nose about. We were loved. I brothers who I'm close to, two parents who are miraculously still married. And I don't just mean the marriage is hard work. They were a long shot, but they're celebrating 55 years here coming up. And a larger family than that. My mom's

Parents grew up in Pensacola, Florida, and so there's this warmth and hospitality from the rural South that was a deep part of the way we were raised. And so I, yeah, I just think that is, in this world, which can be a tricky and even devastating place, the knowledge that we're loved is a superpower. It is a defense against the darkness, and it is a thing that we get to share out loud, and it always works.

Yeah, obviously there's the restaurant, so there's the inheriting of that. I am still paying my parents off for that loan, so I inherited the opportunity to run a restaurant. I had to buy it from them, but even that is a privilege. Not a lot of people get that chance. But if we're honest, if we're gonna tell the, I could make the story pretty, I think we should make the story honest. I inherited it. There's a lot of adoption in our family, and so we were a disparate group coming from all kinds of different places. My father was adopted by Peter Canlis Peter was a...

smart man, he was a genius, he was ahead of his time. He was an alcoholic, he was married multiple times, he wasn't the best dad in the world. He had his dark sides and like any family, we can be a little messy too and so you inherit that. These are the things that you just are born into and start to navigate. And I was born into a family of a couple of parents that didn't want that and that is maybe one of the biggest privileges. They were willing to work to break that curse a little bit. My

He walked away from a lot in order to get what he wanted. He wanted a family, he wanted a wife who loved him and vice versa. He wanted depth, character, and richness of relationship and steered our family early on away from places that I think would not have panned out for us in the long run. My grandfather died famous and lonely. That's a cocktail I would not like a sip of. You know what I'm saying? That's a weird mix.

So yeah, there's that legacy. What an opportunity. It's a special place. And also we have the opportunity to write, to make it what it is today. And there's a lot that we walk away from in that heritage and that we get to work with in that heritage. There's a lot of gold in that two minute share. And I really appreciate that. And so what I heard that you inherited was much more than a restaurant or an opportunity to get into the restaurant. You inherited these principles from your father.

you inherited these principles of love and what are priorities, family. And I'm wondering if you think about that and have gone to that level of there's a lot there because a lot of people don't have that in today's world. We got two working parents. They're here and there. They're coming back and it's to try and stay above water with all the things going on. Maybe that inheritance isn't available. Yeah, I for I think because we are

Look, a 75 year old restaurant is a weird thing. They just don't exist, especially in what we're trying to do with it. And so we're constantly asking the question, hey, what of this old place do we still want? And what do we need to let go of? And that's no different than me and this midlife section, which is like, what pieces of me do I want to carry forward? And what pieces of me do I need to let die and let go of? And that takes work. And if you are fortunate enough to have friends around you who can...

be alongside you for that process, oh, what a gift. I have had a lot of people, both professionally and personally, help us walk through that. I think that is the invitation of age. It's an invitation to say, hey, you were given the gift of another day. What from yesterday are you gonna leave in the past? And what from yesterday are you gonna bring with you today? We get a chance to do that every morning. And it's not a solo journey. Look, I can't overstate it. If I'm a broken record or anything, I want you to hear, man, this is a team sport.

I take a village. know we like to say in raising kids it takes a village, but I personally take a village. You can't overestimate how much work it takes me to just keep me on track and moving forward. And that has been maybe the biggest inheritance of all is parents who pursued deep relationships with people that they wanted to become like and taught us how to do that. And yeah, the gift of the people around us, I just think that's a strength we can't.

shouldn't underestimate. Absolutely not. It's gem is what that is. And I think for our listeners, legacy isn't just a family business thing, right? For a lot of people, it's patterns or definitions of success we inherit. And then we have to decide what to do with it. So Mark, what inherited story have you had to hold on to or what inherited story have you had to let go of? So yeah, Peter.

My grandfather wanted that restaurant to be the greatest restaurant in the world. And he was on that course. That's what he was building. And that's what, in many ways, he had built. The fame and the fortune and the success of it, and I'm using air quotes for those listening here, was in that vein. My parents wanted something different. That wasn't success to them. Success would be caring well for the people around them. And so we've had to choose, which of those do we lean hard into? And I, both would be nice.

But I don't know if we get a chance to do both. And so if I'm gonna err, if I'm gonna default in some directions, in the direction of caring for the people around me, every time, that is success. And will, can the people who, we have 125 employees. I like to say we are a model of inefficiency. It's not something I'm proud of, but it's something that I revel in. I glory of that place are its people and that I get to be alongside that many people night by night. You can't imagine how I've been formed.

and shaped by them, and hopefully vice versa. And yeah, mom and dad just did, I think, a phenomenal job loving on, that's really the best word for it, the people around them, all of them. It didn't matter who you were, if you're in their circle, they got their big old arms around you, and I just admire that. I hope somebody says that about me

Mark, I gotta share for our listeners. You mentioned you celebrated your 75th anniversary of a restaurant being open and you had this open house and my wife, Kelly and I had the opportunity to come to the open house and we were greeted by your father at the top of the steps. And he was like, hi, I'm Chris. And what's your name? Shanon And this is Kelly. ⁓ okay. And how do you know my kids or how do you know Canlis? And I shared a little bit and Kelly's like

My father has been the window washer of Canlis for decades. Oh, Scott, yes, I know Scott. And so then he just had this rich conversation with us. And 40 minutes later, he comes up, pulls me aside and says, Shanon, how are you doing? And I just, Kelly was there and I just looked at her and I'm like, just met this guy, said my name once and the place is packed and he remembered my name. I was gushing.

over him at that point in time. And I was like, wow, there is something special that I think you inherited without knowing. Just watching him was a gift. If we're talking about presence and gifts. You want a good, that's story about dad. Went early on when I was young and just took over the restaurant, it's 25 years ago. I'm learning to run the front desk, right? This is the main, the maitre d job. And back in those days, dad is still working the floor at night.

And so he's watching me do this and he's like, he pulls me over to the fireplace. He's like, who's coming in next? And I thought this was a trick question. I'm not clairvoyant. He's like, no, no, who's coming in next? What's their name? I don't know. He's like, well, it's written over there in the reservation book. You should know. I'm like, well, dad. He's like, okay, well, just, I want you to remember their name. I'm like, I'm not sure I can remember everyone's name. And he goes, do you know why not? Because you don't care.

And we okay. So if you ever worked with a father and for all those in family business right now, it's tricky. Right. Like there is a dynamic here. And I don't know if everyone has, you know, the father issues. I kind of think we all want our dad. So when your father says he's also your boss of the time, you can't remember names because you don't care. It's a bit of a pull the stake out of your heart and be curious.

He said, I'll pay you a million bucks to remember the next name that walks in the front door. Well, he doesn't have a million bucks, but his point was it's a function of motivation. Same with our valets. They remember cars. There's no system there. They just care so much that they're going to remember your car. And our editor, the lead valet, he'll tell you that. He'll say, look, in order to be good out here, you have to care so much that you remember what brought someone It's a function of care. And my dad is a champion among them.

Among them, you know, he's got plenty of faults, but that guy cares. And it's, it feels good, doesn't it? It was amazing. It was absolutely amazing. How do you continue that culture of care? we tangent a little bit here, you have this, it's been taught, you've witnessed it, you've seen it. How does that pervade to the 123 team members at Canlis? Yeah. So the bad news here for all the leaders in the room is you just have to do the hard work of caring.

I see Dare to Lead in the book in the background there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, you need to dare to care. And that is the hardest thing. And if you can figure out how to do it, which is a function of tuning your heart in the right direction, then most of the work of leadership is done because I don't know anyone who doesn't connect to it. And everyone I know can smell it out from a distance when we're not cared for. It is human to be able to sense the difference. And as a leader, the first thing you have to do is decide whether or not you care about your people.

Period. That's it. There you go. That is the beginning and the end of the book, in my opinion. Either you do or you don't. And if you don't, you're screwed. Or eventually your staff can figure it out. And if you do, you're probably fine and you should hire some smart people to figure out how to run your company. Like that, like two paths diverge in the woods. And it's not that caring will fix your company or put you on the right path. It isn't prescriptive. It's just the beginning step. And the next step.

would be asking your staff, hey, do you like the way that feels? Do you wanna be the kind of person who provides that also? There it is. So you gotta ask yourself, it's all self work. Do I wanna be the kind of person known, for loving others? And then you gotta ask your employees, is this who you wanna be known for? Because if it is, I wanna see you live that out step by step, night by night, table by table. And if you have the freedom to do that here, and if not, this is probably the wrong space for you.

That's it. You're getting me fired up right now. I'm going back to work. A lot is written about leadership and less is written about just good old fashioned caring for. I know what keeps us from doing that. think in business, we make a lot of excuses for not doing this. But what keeps us from radically caring for, or I'll even use the L word, radically loving the other. My belief is fear.

I think we, and I strive to be someone who's not living by fear. Fear of the other, fear of strangers, fear of what's different than us, fear of what we don't understand, fear of what is foreign. Man, if I could wave a magic wand, I don't wanna live by that fear. I'll listen to it. It fears, we were talking about that movie. Yeah, we gotta listen to it, but I don't want it to be the only voice in the room or the one that's driving me. I'd rather be driven by hope, by love. And I think in business we make a lot of excuses.

we make up a lot of excuses for not doing this. The bottom line, F the bottom line. If your company is only about making money, fine, but you got to say that to your people. Hey, just so you know, the bottom line is more important than you are. And a lot of companies don't have the courage to say that. They mask that, they hide it. So when you think about Canlis right now and that culture of care is what I'm hearing and then transitions happen.

Life adds change and that tends to reveal some things that are going on maybe underneath that is that a distraction to care? And so I think for you over this last stretch, seems like Canlis has been navigating a lot of transition, your brother Brian stepping away, chef changing, leadership changes, and I'm sure there's plenty more behind the scenes. How do you keep that, that?

focus on care when it's like, I gotta do all these other things. How do I fill these gaps? And that's what we're, yeah, we've gone through a lot of change. We sent Aisha off. She's gonna open an incredible place. She's gonna change the game in our industry. I need her out there doing that. Way more than I need her running my kitchen. And I got James running the show and he's the same. One day, I hope he opens his own restaurant. My job is to prepare him for that. It's just, I only have

How much time do I have? These few moments, these few years, they melt like snowflakes in our hand, right? And so how do we prize that? The glory of the snowflake in your hand is its fleeting glory. You just get a moment. And I feel like that with my staff. I just get a moment with them and then they're off. And so how can I celebrate that? How can I revel in each of their uniquenesses? And man, that's the joy of what we do at work. The world does not need another restaurant.

Mark, I really appreciate that lens and perspective, that full send, that love, that appreciation. Can you hold, and how would you hold, that love as Brian's leaving with, I'm sure in the other hand, holding grief, I would assume, of like, how do you balance that? Yeah. How do we make friends with sadness while we're pressing forward with joy? Isn't that the human condition?

Yeah, look, I'm so proud of my brother and what he's doing right now and trying to sneak off to Nashville next week and join his big CEO summit that sells out in seconds and all these fancy people are on the table. Man, I wanna be around that table, but the reality is I kinda need to be in Seattle next week running a restaurant. And I think that's just all of our story. I haven't met a person that isn't processing some sadness right now. I just haven't.

And I haven't met a person whose heart didn't leap for joy yesterday when lightning flashed and thunder came down and Seattle got covered in hail and we all just felt the magic of a spring storm. We're all like, ⁓ you feel alive, right? And so there's an aliveness and there's a sadness. There's a joy and an adventure and there's a mourning and a sorrow and all these things are happening at the same time. That's the glorious chaos of our situation. I don't have an answer for you. I just know that we're all in that together.

And my job is, I don't want to be, yeah, send all the people off and your company will be fine. Okay, no, let's see, what am I doing? We are actively and always building that place. And I don't know, in the same way, if we're not willing to leave where we are, we're not gonna get to where we want to go. And so there's a piece of my company that needs this change to happen. There's a piece inside of me. I hope in five years, you're talking to a different person.

Some of me will be the same. Some of me will be, I have goals. I have hopes. I want to change. I want to grow. I want to get better. want to. And so I'm to have to leave some of the way. think I'm doing it pretty good today. I'm going to have to leave some of that and you're going to have to tell me, Hey, Mark, maybe it's this. Maybe it's that, but it's a team sport. And so I think, I think we do the same thing with our business that we do with our own personal lives. In fact, it starts in here with our lives and then it finds its way into the, into our work. Okay, Mark for.

the person that finds themselves rebuilding again, right? Something happened, they lost the team member, a partner left, whatever it might be. What's- Chef and sous chef and favorite brother, no expense Matt, and then your maitre d, yeah, for that person. Let's not go with it. For that person. Yeah. What have you learned about how to do that without becoming cynical or resigned? ⁓ man, I just read the news. We have it so good. I travel. I think travel is-

Such a gift, it gives us such perspective. Try to go to, if I could, I'd go to Hawaii every week, but I can't do that. And it also doesn't scratch the itch. I think it's incredible if you have the ability to travel to places that have less than what we have. And I think to see the world, or if you can't travel, to read about it, to plug into it, an awareness of others gives me such perspective. Makes me so grateful for what we have.

I do not understand what's happening in Lebanon. I do not understand what's happening in Iran. I don't understand the East African hunger crisis. I don't understand why this is happening. So yeah, I feel sorry for myself. It ends real quick reading through the headlines. Walk through a cancer ward, pick a friend up from chemo and then say to yourself, that email I got at work really, I think getting outside of our own story, it's just, it's a lot of perspective to be gained in getting outside of our own story.

Frankly, that's one of the secret joys of running a restaurant, is that every night you're entering into the story of another human being in it. Yeah, everyone talks about how hard restaurants are, how they're exhausting and a lot, it's hard work, but it fills you up to get to be present. Those are sacred stories. That's just, that's, what if I had said for a living I got to walk into cathedrals and sit and be present for three hours? You'd be like, cool, yeah, I do that. From a human perspective, we are present.

We are sitting in these cathedrals, these stories of other people's lives and it gives us perspective. It puts everything right. I love that. Perspective is huge. There's some parable that I know I'm going to mess up where mother lost one of her children and she was in deep sorrow. And she went to her priest and said, can you take care of my sorrow? And he said, yes, I can. I want you to go find someone who has never experienced sorrow and tell me.

what they've learned. And she goes to every person in the village seeking out the person that hasn't experienced sorrow. And what happened is she heard all these stories of sorrow. And she came back to the priest and said, I failed. I couldn't find a single person who hasn't experienced sorrow. But I think your point is so beautifully said. We get in our own world, or it's easy to focus on me, but when we...

turn it around and start looking what's happening elsewhere, it changes that cynicism into potentially hope, gratitude, or even the sense of wanting to help others. I think it wakes that up inside of us. yeah, I don't know anyone who hasn't experienced grief or sorrow. I'm woman still wandering around the village hoping for So with everything going on, I'm just curious, how do you take care of yourself personally? I eat good food.

Yes, you do. I wish I went to my own restaurant more often. How do I take care of myself personally? I do get, honestly, I get to take care of my body in ways a lot of people can't. I'm just surrounded by great product and food and we do two big family meals every day. Those are home cooked meals. I can't not mention them. I get to eat well and that is a huge advantage. Every morning I spend a little time just with myself. I read.

I got two dogs that like to curl up on the couch. I typically read scripture or lately I've been reading this guy Rowan Williams who's just blowing my mind, the book called Passions of the Soul. But it centers me and it puts me right before I launch into things and give it a little chance to spend time getting outside of my own story and spending time in prayer and trying to understand what God has for me in that way and also wake up my own desires before I get distracted by a million things.

in the news and try to understand, yeah, each day is a gift and what do I wanna do with it? And I think if we're not asking that question, we're maybe, we're not unwrapping the present that's right in front of us. We leave it there. I have the ability to make some of those decisions in my world that wanna do well with that ability. I try to sleep well, that's tricky. In the restaurant business, you tend to stay up late, kids tend to wake up early. Those are tough to rectify, but I try to prioritize sleep as best I can and exercise.

I'm a physical therapist. It's hard to get all these exercises. Yeah, you how it is. yeah, stretch and exercise. But no, I take a couple of days off. I am almost never on my phone, much to the detriment of my friends. I spend time with my kids and that's just as, if I could slow down how fast they're growing up, I would do it. And anytime I get there, it just fills my soul. Hear, hear. Uh So how do you know when you're living or leading from a healthy place versus just...

running on fumes. I let my staff tell me. Yesterday I said something in the office that was a little angry. was pretty snappy and bitter. And Kelsey, the general manager, she sat behind me. She turns around and looks at me and I was like, oh, oh, I'm that, that didn't, yep, my bad. I think we have to, I think we have to let other people speak into our world a little bit. Keeps us from getting hard hearted. Keeps us from thinking that our own beliefs or doctrine keeps us from.

basically turning ourselves into a version of God. Like, whatever I think and say and believe, my own experience is the truth and everyone else's is foreign. And so I actively am inviting people to, and it is painful, it sucks and embarrassing and runs into my pride and it's not fun, et cetera, et cetera, and I need it. So we gotta let, that's at these stage, my kids are getting bigger, so at these stage, that's allowing your children in, those are allowing dear friends in.

is there's an act of invitation that says, I need to see the world through your eyes. I need your opinion on this because my own myopic view is not enough. It's too narrow. And so we gotta do that all the time. I think we have to invite others to say, hey, what do you see here? Help me out. So at work in particular, a few folks, the way we run the company, we've got an executive team and we just give them full access to us, to the company. At home, we've certainly got that as well. My wife is an incredible partner to me in this and.

She is so insightful, even if sometimes I don't want the insight. need it. need her in ways that are unfathomably hard to describe. But what a gift to have that, to have someone walk alongside you in that. If I'm honest, I crave being known and wanted anyway. I'm scared to be known in that way, and I want to be known in this way. And I want to be wanted even though I'm known. I want to be wanted even though someone understands how, the ways in which I fall down, and the ways in which I...

things I'm not proud of. So that's a delicate dance to do, but it starts with invitation. You gotta open yourself up to that, think. Is that a practice that you've had to consciously put into play of either asking for feedback or giving permission to provide unsolicited insights? Oh yeah, it's a practice that many people who love me have strongly suggested kindly and gently along the way. I said, Mark, you could use more of this. Yeah, yeah, it's not natural. It's not fun. I'm not, I

say I'm any good at it. For this, you should phone a friend and you should talk to them. That would be a fascinating podcast. Cool, Mark. I have three of your closest friends on the line here, and I just want to ask them, how open are you to feedback? Talk about your pride and where it gets in the way. That'd be a long discussion because it gets in the way all the time. But I want the world to run the way that I want the world to run. I don't know, am I the only one? But no one made me king. I, it's a, and

I am reflecting on, wait a second, just because I see something a one way doesn't make it the way. Absolutely. And you've mentioned potentially your wife providing some feedback or some insights. I'm curious how marriage and fatherhood have exposed parts of you that maybe leadership, your role never could. Yeah, I think we are letting in through marriage or through parenting.

We're allowing ourselves to be known even deeper. I think that vulnerability leads to trust and allowing yourself to be seen is easier in marriage and it's a good practice ground for work. I think the leader that won't allow themselves to be seen and known, that's to say that puts up a front, projects this image that they're in charge and they have the answers and they're in control. I haven't met a person who's fully in control yet. I think at home, the great crucible of marriage or...

parenting or that is you are exposed. You are seen. You are vulnerable. You can't, there's no escaping that. And in that we also learned that we are loved and those lessons can't not transfer to who we are at work. It's hard for me in a staff meeting not to constantly be talking about what I'm learning from my wife or from my kids. I feel I sound like a broken record, but there's just so much aligned in those things. Absolutely. I feel like the older I get to like when I go into work, most of my team members could be my children.

Right? And so now it's like looking at them as yes, maybe as the boss, but more as parental figure. And how do I want to take care of them through that lens? it's, yeah, not to get weird about it, but I often feel that way. was like, the role I'm playing for my staff is a very similar role that I'm playing for my children. The relational dynamic being very different. One is an employee, one of course is a child. But the desire of heart is the same. am caring for, shepherding, stewarding.

coaching coming alongside in the same way. How do I grow this human being in the way that they hope to grow? How do I, the question we're asking on an interview is, who are you hoping to become? What's gonna happen because you work at Canlis? Oh my goodness, I hope we like the outcome. Let's fast forward the tape three, five, eight years down the road. Do you like that person more than you are now? Because if not, you'd be crazy to work here. I'd be crazy to hire you. And if so, I'd be crazy not to hire you. If...

because of work, you became more of the human being you were hoping to become. Ah, this is a good place for you. That's motivating. That's what the restaurant's doing for me. And to the degree that we're not asking that question in the interview, I just want to challenge us and say, whoa, hold on a second. Wouldn't it be terrible if you hired someone and because of their job, they became less?

Oh, what a dehumanizing thing. We need to be creating workplaces where our employees are becoming more. And that's, isn't that what we're doing to our kids, for our kids? Yeah, who are these kids created to be? I don't know. Absolutely. And if everyone was at a job or a career where they were able to be fully self-expressed and more of who they wanted to be, like this world could be a totally different place. A totally different place. I don't really know what's keeping us from that. That doesn't mean we all come to work and have long check-ins and sing kumbaya. There's work to be done, but 100%, a lot of work to be done, but

To the degree that we are asking our employees to not bring their whole self, an authentic true version of who they are and what they bring. I believe that we are in some small way dehumanizing the other. Hospitality is the opposite of that. It's glorifying the other. It's valuing the other. It's not for sake of sameness, but for the sake of curiosity around difference. That is the way ancient hospitality came into being and all of us that are still in that business are.

standing on the shoulders of ancient hospitality. Will you say that one more time? That was gold. Yeah, if we go down that road, hospitality is essentially turning towards the other and valuing them, not for sameness. That's to say, I don't value you when I find you to be the same as me. I value you, period. I bless the difference between us.

I say to myself, I need the way you're different. That doesn't mean I have to change what I believe so that, where the goal is not sameness. The goal is to bless the beautiful, chaotic difference that we find ourselves in here. It's in that diversity that we find beauty and strength and truth. And I think of the pursuit of truth as a team sport. And every person on the planet is on that team. We need that team.

And so hospitality is saying, I invite the difference in, help me see the world differently. Help me see the world through your eyes. So yeah, it's the caring for and the letting in and the turning to the other. And I'm going to air quote the other, it's capital O, the Other, the person that is not like us. That's ancient hospitality. And by the way, I think it still has a place in the modern world.

If that doesn't come through, I'm abundantly clear here. I'll get off my pedestal, but my little, but yeah, I have deep thoughts around that. I mean, what we're trying to do at work and what I'm trying to do at home. Curiosity to difference. That is just beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. So Mark, I know your faith matters to you and I'm curious, how does your faith shape the way you think about life, work, leadership, success? does. It's one of the things I was born into, a family of faith.

I've wrestled with it over the years, but lately, anymore, man, I thank you for bringing that up, because I feel like everyone's so scared to talk about faith these days, and it's just like a hot button. My goodness, we better be talking about it. We better be curious about it. I'm curious about my own beliefs. I don't know if they're right or wrong, but I think my hope is to be closer to God, not further from God. My hope is to be more known in that way. And as I read through the scripture, I grew up in the Christian faith, so as I read through the Bible, man, I just,

I don't care where you are in that book. I just keep hearing God asking, man, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? Do you want me? Do you want something else? And there's a ton of invitation in there. I don't see that as a book of rules or to do or not to do. I think it's a deeply mysterious reading, a deeply mysterious thing that we could spend our lives trying to understand. So I don't pretend to understand it. I don't pretend to turn it into a set of rules to by.

think there's a lot of wisdom in there and there's a lot of invitation. And so I just, I hear God saying constantly, I want you, do you want me? And that is inspiring to me and how I want to live. It's exactly how we run our company. We're not a faith-based company. I don't ask my staff to believe the same things that I believe, but I do ask them, hey, what do you want? Let me help you get what you want. And if they said, why are you doing that? I'd say, because I think that's what God's done for me. I think God has said, Mark, what do you want?

I give you the freedom to choose. I give you the freedom to choose me or choose something else. And so I feel like if I've been given that freedom, I need to give that to all the people around me. Hey, what do you want? I give you the freedom. How can I help you get what you want? I just see that over and over, Old Testament, New Testament. You just see this. And so out of that, there's this message that, man, if that's true, if there is a God, and if that's what he's saying, that is crazy shit. That's radical. And that means that there's a God that wants me, that loves me, that desires me. That is powerful.

I explore that. My faith is around that. Exploring that through the scripture, exploring that through people wiser than me. Reading as much as I can, being open as I can about it. And I think that's a powerful thing. I think that I'm loved. And so if that's the case, you talk about heritage, you talk about what I've been given, inheritance. Man, if we have been given the gift of being loved, now you have everything you need to navigate this planet. And conversely, if we don't have that, it's going to be all uphill. And so for us,

Again, whether it's personally or professionally, man, what a privilege to get to run a company where we get to say every night to someone, hey, I'm going to flip the script on what you've been told. You are worth it. This place loves you already. Not because you're paying to eat here, not because we know how you voted, not because we know who you are or anything about you. We already love you. Canlis exists for you. I had it somehow. The mission of that team is to reverse what the world has told people that says, I'm not worth it.

I'm not worthy. I'm like, yes, you are. I got a whole restaurant here that's gonna try and prove it to you over six courses. Yes, you are. And if we could do that, we win. This is what I wanna do. You're worthy of love and belonging because you exist. Yeah. And maybe I'm wrong about that. Again, if we're gonna talk about curiosity, I need to be self-reflective. Okay, maybe I'm wrong about that. Yes, maybe I am. Totally. I might be off. Okay. If I'm gonna be off, I wanna be off in that direction.

not the other direction. I'm happy to admit I might be wrong here, but I'm sure enjoying running a company with that as its fundamental principle and belief. You are worth it. You're worthy. And that doesn't mean I agree with you, but I do value you. And I honestly, Shanon, it comes because I feel valued. When I read the scripture, that's just the message I get. I've been through it a lot. I just hear that over and over again.

Like, okay, that's a gift. What do I do with that? I want to give that away. I want to award it. I feel like I've been lavishly poured into that way. So I want to try to lavishly pour back out. Thank you for going there. Yeah. Thanks for asking. Yeah. Everyone kind of stays away from it. It was a weird thing to talk about faith in people, but everyone's got one or doesn't got one. And I just feel like there's a lot of space to go there. And the exploration of it is rich. And I think...

Even for our listeners who might not use the same faith language, I think the deeper question is universal. What anchors you when your plans, your role or your certainty just starts shifting? like what? Go there. Let's talk about that. Let's be in community about that. Let's, I have learned so much from people of other faiths, so much from people of other belief systems.

Yeah, don't know when, societally, we got so off track where we were so afraid of someone else's beliefs. Man, I don't want to be that person. I don't. Yeah, that's, again, coming back to that curiosity that you mentioned earlier. How can we stay curious about differences? I don't have the recipe, but it is a key ingredient in the dish. Period. You down the recipe. I'm like, I can't, but...

Definitely throw some curiosity in there because it really, I'd say, MSG of society. It just tastes good every time. It just, you're like, ooh, what is this? So Mark, with all of that in mind, responsibility, faith, leadership, family, and the internal work of who are we becoming, how do you define a win right now? Yeah, wow. Was I present to the suffering of someone else? Was I present to my own? Did I show up or did I hide?

Was I willing to stay in it with someone? A long time ago, the duck accident on 99 happened and we were, I wasn't there, my team was there, a bunch of chefs and cooks were meeting on table 29 and you can see Aurora from Tony. You can just peek around those trees and you can see the bridge and they watched that happen. They saw it happen and they ran out there and one of our pastry chefs, a sous chef that was running pastry at the time, she ran out there and there was a

It really hard seeing. those that don't remember that, a number of people died, many more were wounded. And she found this woman who was gravely wounded and she had no medical training. She didn't know what to do. But as the team ran out there, many stood in awe. Many more ran forward and got active, helping cars slow down and push traffic away. Others went onto the bus, they hit and it started sifting through the chaos and smoke.

April sat on the street and held this woman. She put her head in her lap. I want to be her. No ability to help. But she had the courage to be present. Man, that's a win. What if somebody said about me? ⁓ he had the courage to be present when it really mattered. And so often, Shanon, I want to hide or I want to busy myself and I want to fix it. But the reality is we can't always fix it. Sometimes we can.

It's so often we can't. And I think the invitation is just to be present with and not fix. It's, yeah, I think that's, I think that's a win. I would love it if somebody said that about me. He had the courage to sit without the ability to fix and be present to someone else's brokenness, someone else's pain, someone else's situation, someone else's bad day.

in uncertainty, in not knowing, in not having answers. Trust me, I want to fix. I'm the CEO of a company. I want to come in and have the answer and be the hero. I do. It sounds silly to say it, but I want you to think that I'm a hero. But the reality is I don't have the ability to do that. And so without the ability to that, I want to have the courage to just be present to my neighbor who's having a hard day, who lost his wife, and he's just trying to figure out how to garden.

The plot of land that she took care of, man, the courage to stay with him and linger a little longer, that's a win. To linger with him, I'd be proud of myself. Why do we struggle so much with that? Why is that so hard? Yeah, we're scared. I suppose we... I don't know. I don't know, it's awkward. We're uncomfortable in the space. We're uncomfortable in sitting in the... We're powerless. We don't like the powerlessness. I hate it. I hate being powerless. That's why the news is hard to read. Can't fix it. We feel powerless.

And that's a lie, by the way. You're not powerless. You have the ability to linger. You have the ability to stay. You have the ability to show up late to your meeting because your neighbor needed you for five more minutes. And to say, I'm so sorry I'm late. I wish I could have been here on time, but I chose to linger with my neighbor who needed me for a minute because that was just the big desire of my heart. The lie says that we're powerless to change anything. And the reality is you have the ability to be present with right now, today.

whoever you run into. And I just want to be that guy. That's resonating with me. The win is presence. I'm able to set aside all the distractions of the day to be present. That's a monumental win. Because it doesn't matter who you are or where you are. It doesn't matter where you work or what you're doing. I feel like there's this message that says, ⁓ man, you got to fix the world. No, you don't. You're not king. You're not God. You're not, no, I think we just need to, I just think we need to show up for one another and.

start there, day by day. My job is a job of table by table. It is slow, messy work. It's glorious. So Mark, if we kind of synopsis everything, this question that's been brought up a little bit without directly answering it is, who am I becoming? I'm curious how you would answer that in this moment. Someone who doesn't give up. Someone who has the courage to...

Take an honest look at himself in the mirror. Someone who has the courage to make friends with grief. Grief of my own age, the grief of loss, the grief of the loss of my neighbor. I hope I'm becoming that person. I hope I'm learning how to run a restaurant. I thought I'd have that figured out by now. I hope I'm becoming a better husband. I thought I'd have that figured out. I really thought I'd have a lot figured out. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm in for the ride. I'm signed up. I'm strapped into the roller coaster.

paid the ticket and I'm in. And I hope that I have the courage to stay there. Gosh, I hope I have the courage to not to be soft-hearted again at this stage of life. I want to have the answers and I want people to think I have the answers. That sounds embarrassing to say out loud, but it's so true. I want people to think that I'm in control and I'm not. I hope I'm becoming a better version of myself and I think we all want that. Yeah, I do. Thank you. I appreciate your...

vulnerability and your use the word authenticity. Like you're just showing up as your raw self and that's what I'm experiencing. And so I have immense gratitude to you for that. And I hope our listeners can feel that as much as I am right now. So thank Mark for our person who's listening, who maybe they're struggling, maybe they're real rebuilding something that they care deeply about a business, family, a relationship, sense of self.

Yeah, come in the bar and let's get a beer. what would you want them to consider? I hear you. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah, Canlis is a place for rebuilders and the devastated and those full of hope. Yeah, now what was your question? Sorry. Yeah, but I really would love to have a beer with that person. no, absolutely. Have the beer. And then as they're thinking about rebuilding this aspect of my life and I want to love more again, I'm numb to that. Where would you have them start? Maybe just

with the courage to be known a little. I know it's scary, but maybe I would just have them hear that they are more loved than they can possibly imagine. And if you would let that in a little bit, if you would let the reality of that truth sink in, then you might find a little bit of courage to allow yourself to be known. And trust me, there are people out there that wanna know you. And maybe we don't hear that message enough. think we hear a message that we need to be careful, safe, and...

Look out for number one, look out for ourselves. I don't know, I think there's a message out there that just says, you are more loved than you can possibly imagine. And I wonder if we're unwilling to let that sink in. That's I'm gonna go do today. That's beautiful. Yeah, I hope that comes across loud and clear. I really do believe that. I really do believe that. Okay, Mark.

Before we wrap, I'd like to end with a series of rapid fire questions. You can take as long as short as you want. Morning person or night owl? Oh, impossible question. Impossible question. I like myself better in the morning, but I tend to stay up way later than I am proud to say that I stay up. But I love the morning. The theory of morning, the concept of morning is cool. The concept of morning I so agree with. And then if you looked at my life, you'd be like, what's wrong with you?

Just go to bed already. I'm like, I'm- All right. What clears your head the fastest? Exercise, outdoors, looking into my wife's eyes. What is one food dish you never get tired of? Insalata Caprese. Tomato, basil, mozzarella, or like salami, or string cheese. I love very good string cheese. Okay. Not too cold out of the refrigerator. You gotta warm it up so it gets stringy again. What is the one quality you most admire in your wife? Her ability to be present is transforming.

Yeah. One thing your kids... What's that? She is safe. She is the safest place. Yeah. What is the one thing your kids are teaching you right now? ⁓ there's not just one. That I'm a little scared to let them in. That I still present a version of me that isn't entirely authentic. That I don't need to control the outcome. That I can just be along the ride. Be present for their discovery. That life has...

infinitely more joy than I could possibly imagine. That I need to dance better, that I should probably learn to play guitar, I should probably have the courage to sing a song in public one day, that I should have done outlines better in my writing, that I so many things. My kids are incredible. I have three. We just got so lucky with that. And my wife is a phenomenal parent. I'm above average is what I'm told, but frankly, I think we just got really lucky. Fantastic.

Average to above average. Got the lottery. What is the most rated part of a great dining experience? ⁓ that is such a good question. How well the guest feels like they stayed in the spotlight. It's really tempting to put the spotlight on the food or the service or some restauranty thing. The goal of any host so that the guest feels restored, the guest feels celebrated. And so

We only have these fancy things, all the fancy things we have, wine lists and stuff, so that you would feel cherished, valued, so that you would appreciate yourself even more. It's the only reason to have them. It's the only reason to do fancy dinner time restaurant things. It's the only reason. There's a few moments in life that are worth hallmarking.

slowing down, celebrating, cherishing a few moments worth just checking out of that, the chaos of that and checking into my daughter turns 18 in a couple of days. That only happens once. And I'm go to a place that is deeply aware of how sacred that night is and who will lavishly spend their time, talent and attention on the fleeting moment of an 18th birthday. There are places that do that really well and there are places that pretend to do that. And I think

Guests had the freedom to walk away from the need for the dish to blow their mind or the experience to be worthy of wearing a silly t-shirt or posting on Instagram that you went to a place. I just think that's gonna date itself real quick here. I want them to have the freedom to say, a minute, tonight was about my daughter, tonight was about my wife, tonight was about my grandma. You guys missed that. Don't miss that. Yeah, thank you. What is one thing you believe

now about success that you did not believe 10 years ago? These are the fast questions? Wow, that is an awesome question. Let's see, that I did not believe 10 years ago. ⁓ let's see. 10 years ago, I thought. Sorry if this is gonna sound more businessy and worky than personal, but I thought I needed the whole country to think well of Canlis Restaurant. We don't, this is a restaurant for Seattle. It's a neighborhood.

I need my neighbor to feel comfortable there. And so I want it to be a reflection of us, of our space, our city, our town, our geography, our food, our terroir, our people. And for a while there, I thought the way to run a successful company was to make sure that everyone on the planet knew we existed. Now I just want the guy down the street to come in and that would be success if I could get in. That resonates so much. All right, one last question. What does Redefining What's Possible mean to you? Life, hope.

think it means we have hope. I think hope is the secret ingredient. I think it's a magic power. And I think anytime we tap into it, we are daring to do the courageous thing. And yeah, have the courage to find a little hope and like a tiny little ember and fan that thing into the flame that it really wants to be. just, yeah, to have the courage to hope a little bit is awesome. Thank you. So for a lot of people, redefining what's possible is not about becoming bigger. It's about

maybe becoming truer, more grounded, more awake, and more aligned. And Mark, this was rich. And I'm grateful for your honesty, for your presence, and the way you continue to just remind people to go inside and success may be not be what's visible. It's a kind thing. Thanks for giving me the space to do it. It's a kind thing to be known in that way. And I loved your questions.

And for our listeners, if you're in Seattle, if you're planning a trip through Seattle and you have that really special moment to celebrate, please make a reservation at Canlis. It is an extraordinary experience. It's yummy. Yes. And until next time, everyone. Keep redefining what's possible and have a great day, y'all. Thanks, Shanon. Thank you, Mark.