Transforming Trauma Into Purpose: The Healing Power of Archery

What if healing from trauma didn’t start with talking—but with purpose and community?

In this episode of The Asset Mindset, host Daniel Fielding sits down with Jason McCoy, founder of Index Archery, to explore how archery became a powerful therapeutic tool for veterans and first responders navigating post-traumatic stress. Jason shares his journey from military service and personal loss to building a nonprofit rooted in connection, storytelling, and post-traumatic growth. This conversation unpacks mindset, gratitude, community, and how finding purpose can transform pain into lasting impact.

Chapters

 00:00 Introduction to the Asset Mindset Podcast

01:38 Jason McCoy's Journey and Archery Therapy

05:12 Childhood Lessons and Overcoming Adversity

06:49 Recognizing Breaking Points and Coping Mechanisms

08:35 The Power of Perspective

10:19 Finding Gratitude in Everyday Life

12:16 The Importance of Connection with Nature

13:47 The Birth of Index Archery

20:01 Transforming Pain into Purpose

24:55 The Impact of Archery on Mental Health

27:53 Building Community through Archery

32:35 The Dynamics of Firearms and Archery Communities

34:29 The Impact of Archery on Lives

35:21 Transformative Power of Passion and Purpose

38:32 Reframing Grief into Celebration

41:16 The Importance of Self-Reflection

44:40 Building a Supportive Community

47:15 Vision for the Future: EPIC Retreat

51:54 Finding Purpose in Life

54:58 Lessons from the Past

59:04 The Power of Storytelling

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 Connect with Jay Today!

Website: https://endexarchery.org/

Produced by Security Halt Media

Transcript

Mission, Mindset, And Jason’s Work

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the Asset Mindset Podcast, where we don't wait for opportunities, we create them. I'm your host, Daniel Fielding, former Green Beret and author of the Asset Mindset. Today we have a very special guest, Mr. Jason McCoy. Say hello, Jason.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Hey, hello, everyone. And uh Daniel, thanks for having me on today.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Oh, it's great to have you on. Thank you for making the time to be here with the Asset Mindset Podcast. And this isn't about motivation, it's about transformation here. So we're gonna talk about, you know, changes and transforming people's lives, changing their mindset. And let's gear up because your mindset is your greatest asset. So let's go. And why don't you share a little bit about your story and who and what you are?

Index Archery’s Purpose And Who It Serves

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Um, so my name is Jason McCoy. Uh a lot of folks know me as Jay. Uh, I am the founder and president of an organization called Index Archery. Uh, we use archery as therapy for people struggling with post-traumatic stress or symptoms thereof. Uh, we provide 100% of the equipment necessary for them to get started in their archery journey. And we work to incorporate them into their local archery community. Um, for the sake of this podcast, what we're hoping to achieve from post-traumatic stress is post-traumatic growth uh through archery and you know, having them in the exercise and futility that's the drugs, the alcohol, the self-isolation, and all those other negative uh behaviors that people associate with PTS.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

That's amazing and great work you're doing. People need help sometimes. So are you doing this just with military service members, or is there law enforcement involved, or how how do people or who is eligible?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So I very intentionally wrote into uh our articles of incorporation that anyone with post-traumatic stress is eligible for our services. Uh, but our target is uh military veterans, law enforcement officers, um, and then first responders, and then kind of a scale from there. Uh and you know, anyone informed in the topic knows that we're going after the highest suicide rate. Uh we're kind of scaling it down from there. But that's the impact that we want to make. If we can take that 22 a day uh and even turn it into 21 for one day, um, then then everything we've ever done is worth it. Uh but we'd we'd hope to have a much larger impact than that, you know, as we continue to grow uh and and build our programs and communities.

Early Adversity And Formative Values

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Oh, that's great. So in each episode, we dive into the mindset habits and mission-driven thinking that turn everyday people into high performers or to change their life and transform. Um what made you or where was your first transformation in life? Share that with us.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Hmm. Um, you know, I think for a lot of people in in our shoes, a lot of people that join the military and and are attracted to special operations, it starts with childhood. Um I know I won't say I had the worst childhood uh by any means. Um, but you know, there were definitely struggles in my childhood. Um and I think overcoming adversity at a young age kind of primes your mind for certain things, and you you build up certain defenses as a child that prepare you for later on in life. Um but ultimately I grew up in South Louisiana, kind of grew up in the country, um, very blue-collar family. And uh, you know, I think again at an early age, hard work um was exemplified and uh expected. Um and that was, you know, an early transformation for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

So what were those childhood lessons that you've um been able to incorporate as an adult or in your military career?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, I think I think um from where I came from, seeing the value of morals um and and standing on your morals and the value of hard work um have served me well.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So is there anything as a kid that your really stands out as a story is where you learned about hard work, or you just had to suck it up because you were with the family working hard?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Well, so so I'll elaborate. I guess I uh so I grew up with a severely handicapped little sister. Um you know, I had to watch my mom quit her very successful job uh at a young age, uh, to be at home full-time with my sister, uh, watch my dad enter a career in law enforcement, which uh even now, you know, law enforcement doesn't pay very much. Um, but I I watched my family struggle to to just make ends meet and to make, you know, to take care of my sister adequately, but still provide uh, you know, some sense of normalcy and and quality of life for my brother and I. Um, you know, and it's in in South Louisiana, you know, there's there is a lot of poverty. I didn't think we grew up poor, um, but certainly now that I'm a father and a parent and and pay bills, uh I I even appreciate even more, you know, what my parents did uh just to be able to make it by and raise three kids, uh, one of which they're you know they're still raising, they're gonna have to raise my sister forever. Um yeah, so watching their struggles, you know, as as a child, um it's it's hard to capture all the lessons that are in there uh unless you've grown up in that type of family.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, that sounds uh very, very intense. Uh a lot to take on and not understanding when you're a kid, like why is this and that happening or things with your sister. I'm sure that made you grow up and have a lot more responsibilities having to help out. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Absolutely. Um, you know, and I've always been told my entire life I'm I'm uh I'm I'm much you know older than I seem or or wise for my years and all that stuff. And you know, I think I'm starting to catch up with that. I've got quite a few grays in the head now. Um but even as a young, you know, 20-year-old in the military, um, people would always say, Man, you're much more mature, you you seem much wiser than you are. And I think it's because from a very young age, you know, I had those responsibilities. Um, you know, and then I also had a lot of understanding. Uh, you know, again, as a child, you didn't really understand, but you kind of grow into it, those breaking points for my parents and seeing where you know the stress would lead them sometimes. And um, you know, when I would start to get stressed in my own journey as a father and you know, as an airman and whatever, um you you start to see the signs of those breaking points. And it suddenly you can realize, hey, I've got an opportunity here to do it different, you know. Uh, you know, to not to not get angry or frustrated or or lash out um when I'm overwhelmed, but you know, find find a different outlet.

Breaking Points, Faith, And Perspective

SPEAKER_01 6:38

So you're talking about these breaking points, and we all have them. Um you've seem to have grown or you've developed a mindset through your life where when you see a breaking point coming, you can shift gears or change, or or what what do you do if you sense like a breaking point? How do you cope?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

I think it starts with being very introspective. Uh, and and listen, I don't want to sound like I've got it all figured out because I'm human. Um, you know, and sometimes I do still hit those breaking points, and then um, you know, but luckily I think in the moment I'm able to kind of recognize and say, hey, this is not the reaction that I want. Um, but but again, going back, being introspective, having, you know, um your thumb on your inner self and knowing, you know, being in tune with your emotions and recognizing, hey, I need to start looking for those outlets. Or sometimes it's just, hey, I need to I need to be mindful of what's going on, the situation I'm in, take a breath and and catalog. For me, I always like what's the level that this matters? And you know, I'm I'm also a religious person. I grew up Catholic, um, you know, and and and I still very strong in my faith. And a lot of times at the end of the day, the only thing that that matters is, you know, my faith and what happens after this world. You know, I certainly think it it it matters if we're a good person while we're here, but at the end of the day, all these worldly things that people get stressed out over and get caught up in, um that that's the trap, right? We were warned about that. Jesus spoke about that. So I'm getting stressed out, you know, I'm I'm thinking about something so much, and I have to stop and ask myself, what does this really matter in the grand scheme of things? Um and then sometimes it, you know, again, I'm human, sometimes it is worldly, but are my problems really that bad? Because, you know, I've had the I I say the uh the fortunate experience. Some people would say it's misfortunate, but I've traveled all around the world and I've seen some of those third world countries, and I really try to boil down my problems and my struggles. What's it compared to theirs? Um, so I think perspective matters.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

That's powerful stuff right there. And I totally hear what you're saying. My wife and I recently went to Guatemala, and the organization, the foundation that we we um associate ourselves with, they're trying to get it well in for clean water because these people don't have clean water and they're having kidney failure and having all kinds of problems with kidney stones and whatnot. And it's here we are so blessed that we have running water. Now, yeah, depending on where you are in the country, your water might not be the best, but we have availability to get water and have drinking water, have shelter that's you know, not that convenient for other people to be able to live at the standard we do. So I gotta say that that perspective is a very powerful tool, and I'm glad you shared that because when we get stuck in our world and we're comparing ourselves to the Joneses or oh, I I have you know a Chevy truck that's got 200,000 miles on it, and you know, I wish I had well, be grateful you have a truck. Be grateful it runs, you know, like there's people that don't have a vehicle. I know my first trip abroad, um doing some mission work in the Dominican Republic. People asked me if I had a car, and I was curious. I'm like, why? And they're like, Oh, you're rich, you have a car. Because where I was at working at this orphanage, the people in Esperenza, they would share a car. Like the whole neighborhood would come in and pitch in money and get a car, and you'd have to like ask to use it or set sign up for when you could use it to go. And I'm just like, that to me, I was 21. I was like, wow, that's very humbling, you know. How spoiled am I? And yeah, it was an old Camaro, but I still had a car and a Camaro, you know, when I came back.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Right. So I had a very similar conversation uh in Afghanistan with with one of my sources, and he he always called us rich. And finally I looked at him like, dude, I'm not, you know, I'm not rich. And he's like, you know, and he was an older guy. He was he was Taliban, he's been working with with airmen like me for nine years, been on, you know, he'd been doing the job longer than I had at that point. But he's like, You got a car? I'm like, yeah, and he's like, You got two cars, don't you? And I'm like, Yeah. He's like, You got a house by yourself? Yeah, he's like, You're rich. I'm like, you know what? Yeah, thank you for that perspective because yes, I am. You know, and those Guatemalans, the things that they would do, you know, what they would give for the for the water that we waste every morning when we brush our teeth or do do the dishes and just leave the water running, right? That's that's precious to them. We don't even think about it.

Discovering Archery After Loss

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Yeah. And the one thing we always have to remember, we could always have it better, but we could always have it worse. So be grateful where you're at. And that, if you can do that every time you're coming up on a breaking point or things going bad or going south, or not the way you plan, just relax, take a breath. You know, the sun's gonna come out tomorrow, things are gonna happen, and just let it go. Don't don't focus on the little things or make a mountain out of a molehill, one of my former teammates used to say all the time. You know, we'd team would get all spun up, and it's like, hey, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. I'm like, oh yeah, good point. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

And I mean it could, it could be a lot, right? And we social media is a factor, the news cycle's a factor, just all these things in the world. But I tell people all the time, just go outside. I I love the phrase touch grass, and I know that it like that comes from a different place, but now you know I've kind of still like go outside, touch some grass, let the sun hit your face, take a deep breath, and just like recognize for a moment that like we live in a beautiful, incredible world. Yeah, sometimes it really sucks, but when you really think about it, like the world is an incredible place with all these different things, and there's some really great people in the world too, um, you know, living amongst all those really evil ones. Um, so just focus on that. You know, take a breath, sun's on your face. We're okay. We're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, go for a walk. You know, that's one of the things that's that's come out that I love. Like if you're stressing out or whatever, just get outside, go for a walk. You don't have to do this crazy workout or whatever. I mean, those are great if you can do them and you have the motivation and discipline to do it. But if you're sucking, just go for a walk. Get outside, breathe some fresh air, look around, you're gonna see some miracles, just like you said. We live in a fascinating world, and I think that's a great point that you bring up. You know, just look around yourself. And no matter where you are, I remember being in Afghanistan and looking up and being like, oh my God, these stars are beautiful. I've never seen because it's so dark and so open in the field of view. And I was like, this is incredible. Like I was sleeping on the hood of a Humvee, you know, but like it was incredible, or sleeping in the turret.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I did that more than the hood, but some guy tried to kill you today, but man, at the in this moment, you know, things are good. And and hey, you know, they didn't succeed.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, exactly. So obviously, you have a servant's heart and you like to help people. So talk to us about what you do with this archery and how'd that come about?

Why Archery Works And Community Matters

3D Shoots And Total Archery Challenge

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, so you know, for the first point, I think I've always had a servant's heart. Um, I I think that that's just how how I was made. I I get great joy out of helping uh from a young age, you know, whether it was through the church or or Boy Scouts or junior ROTC, whatever. I was always in some type of service-oriented uh group, club, mission, whatever. Um Index for me started out of necessity. It's Index's story is my story. Uh so in 2015 in Afghanistan, uh I lost six of my teammates. Um and it it's one of those situations. I I guess I can make a long story short here, but um as Air Force OSI agents, uh part of our duties and one of the missions that we can get assigned while you're downrange is uh what we call counter threat operations. So CTO. So um our job is all about keeping the airfield green. If rockets, mortars, um, ground attacks are occurring, then planes aren't allowed to take off. Uh so that affects, you know, the whole battle space. So our job is to uh gather intelligence and put together strike packages and uh usually working through ODAs or SEAL teams or task force whatever, um, you know, action targets, capture kill uh type stuff. So um our task force, we were probably four, four days, five days a week. We were outside the wire, you know, within the first five clicks of the base perimeter, but we're out there looking for weapons caches, recruiting sources, gathering information. Um my roommate uh and a guy that I went through, you know, our initial training with our pre-deployment training, he and I had known each other for I think three, four years at this point. Um, Michael Cinco, he planned an operation. Um they had just lost uh source coverage in a specific area that we had um responsibility over. So they were going into a village there, kind of spot and assess and just see what it looked like on the ground. Um he had chosen my team um to be his his number two. So an agent team was usually two agents and a linguist, and then we had an analyst who would stay, you know, on base. Uh so we started plusing up and we would bring four agents and two linguists on every mission plus our security element. Um so a couple days before that mission was set to go, uh I went to him and said, Hey, look, me and my partner, we've got uh like five sorts meets this week. We've got two outside the wire missions of our own. Uh, you know, we're slammed. And um, you know, can you take Pete's team with you? Uh so Cinco says, yeah, no problem. So he changes it out. Uh, you know, Gage and I are, you know, we're just gonna sit back. You know, we told him, hey, I'll be your QRF in case anything happens, you know. Just kind of a joke. Uh well, they they leave for their mission about an hour later. One of our, we had our own ISR platforms uh embedded in the in the task force. So one of our ISR guys comes running up and he's like, hey, you know, team just got hit and and you know, everybody's down. And I'm like, dude, don't fucking joke about that. And it's at this point in time, this was 2015, remember. So, you know, it's it's operation inherent resolve now. Things have like, things are dying down. Yeah, we're still getting rocket fire and stuff, but um it it just wasn't the same Afghanistan that it was my previous trips over there. And now everything is, you know, we're tr we're we're training, advising, and assisting the ANA and the AMP and uh the commandos and all this stuff. So we just didn't we were in that mindset, you know, and and they say complacency kills, but it was just like, hey, we're fine out here, nothing's gonna happen. And uh so anyway, my one of my teammates, Pete, died standing where I I feel like I should have been standing, you know, and then uh Cinco, I was really close with him. Cinco's partner was a guy named Chester, he actually recruited me into OSI. Uh so I'd known all these guys for for quite a while. We were we were pretty close. Um so we get the phone call, Gage and I, you know, we we roll out to uh the casualty collection point. Um we're we're now you know dealing with our f carrying our friends in body bags, and um, you know, and then I get a phone call and it's like, hey, we need, you know, we need you to identify all the bodies so that we can start making like official notifications. So now I'm unzipping the body bags again and and just all of that nonsense, right? And then of course, because OSI, the other component of it, is we're criminal investigators, our headquarters, our our you know, one star general at the time has the bright idea. Oh, we're gonna run this like a criminal case and we're gonna we're gonna run it through the Afghan courts and we're gonna avenge our our fallen agents that way. So what I need you to do now is to go back and collect all of their clothing and their belongings and and and process that like it's evidence in a case. Um because you know, and that the the terrorist who did this is obviously in in three pieces um in the village still. Um but of course there was a um a cell of facilitators that orchestrated this whole thing. Um so thankfully, I don't I don't think we really used the criminal case aspect of this. We worked through uh third group and some bubas from I think 19th group to put together those target packages and schwack a whole bunch of dudes. Um but that's how that deployment finished out for me. It was nose to the grindstone. Um we got back to work and and you know, for me it was about vengeance, it was wrath, it was let's we're gonna kill everyone uh responsible for this. Um and that's what we tried to do. So when I came home and finally slowed down, it hit me like a ton of bricks. And it was that uh I'm sure your listeners are familiar, at least some of them will be with that. I call it the dark room. You know, you're in this, you're in a you're in an empty house for a little while and you're kind of looking around, but then finally you find that dark room, and all you got to really do is close that door behind you, and and you know, everything will be fine, or at least that's what you tell yourself. Um so I'd found That dark room and was kind of peeking into it, you know, just wanted to see what was going on in there. And thankfully, one day, um, I think I think the Lord hit me over the head, and and I had a bow sitting in the garage, and I just said, you know, I got to get out and do something. You know, in the military, especially in my generation, you roll your eyes because every six months you're having another resiliency training and your annual suicide awareness CBT, and then every three months you got somebody from the med group coming down and talking to you, and you're like, whatever. But in the moment, it's all that stuff is coming up, and it's like, hey, here's what's going on with you. Here's why you feel this way, here's why you're you're drinking till 4 a.m. and you know, lying to your wife while she's at work, and you're like, Yeah, I've been up all day, but you didn't get up till like two in the afternoon. Um, so yeah, so one day I saw my bow laying there in the garage and I was like, I gotta get outside. Uh there was an archery range about three minutes from my house on Fort Richardson. Uh it's a really nice range. I drive out there, and as soon as I get out there, you know, that depression hits again. And it's like, you don't want to do this. You just want to go back home. But I like I'm here now, so I forced myself to like get my bow out and I draw back and I shoot and I miss the target. I'm I was a pretty decent shot even back then. Uh and I missed the target by like a foot. I'm like, what the hell was that? I grab another arrow and I dial in, you know, get my form right and I got a bullseye. And I start shooting and I'm shooting and I'm shooting, and I shoot until I'm tired and I can't shoot anymore. You know, it's hard to pull the bow back, and I pack up, and as I'm packing up, I think I realize like, hell, that's like the first two hours and probably the last eight months I haven't thought about Afghanistan. So the next day I went and shot again. And I spent about a week shooting and said, okay, like this shooting thing is helping, but that means it's there's something there for it to help. So um I went and I spoke to my detachment commander at the time. I think uh 2009 is when he got hit, but his uh he was doing the same mission. He was in a uh up armored Humvee that got hit by an IED, or they rolled over an IED and it and it damn near ripped him in half. He had a scar from his sternum all the way around his body and up his back. Uh so he'd he'd been in a worse place than I'd been in, right? Um and he was very open about his struggles. So I went in and talked to him and um he was a very good leader. Uh the first thing he did was he we were also at the time investigating some of my child sex crimes. So he would have this uh this psych doc from the med group come into the detachment and sit in the conference room and he scheduled everyone an hour-long block to go and talk about, you know, whether it was the sex crimes we were looking at, because that child stuff will mess you up too, but it wasn't it was uh it was mandatory. You didn't have a choice. And he said, you know, you don't have to talk to the talk, you just go sit in there for an hour and play on your phone. But everyone has a mandatory block. Well that made it very easy for me to walk in there without everyone being like, oh, is is Jay okay? And then that led to me walking over to the med group and saying, okay, yeah, I really do need some help. Um so it kind of grew from there. I wasn't ready for talk therapy at the time. Uh I wasn't ready for a lot of the stuff that therapists had to throw at me. But just knowing that I had that bow and it was helping, and and I didn't need to drink to turn off, you know, that movie that was Afghanistan. I didn't, I didn't need to do anything negative. I could just go shoot my bow, and at least for two hours I could turn it off. Um and it just the the more I did it, the more impactful it got. So 2019, I left active duty, uh, joined the FBI as an agent and uh moved to Virginia and just had this fire light inside of me that said, like, hey, you know, you're gonna start showing people in this area what archery's done for you. Um, and very quickly that turned into a nonprofit for me to be able to pay for the equipment that they're gonna need to start their archery journeys. So uh so far we've helped, I think we're over 70 people now. Um this year alone, we're at 31. And our goal was 20. So we're growing, we're making an impact, we're still young, but we've got some pretty big plans.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

That's fantastic, and what a story, man. Uh you know, I I can't imagine. I mean, I've lost guys in my company. I lost a good friend of mine, um that Josh Whitaker. We went through the Q course together and I mentored him a little bit because he was a little younger than me. Uh, I was older going through the course. And yeah, I was boarding the bird to go do a mission, and that's when I found out he died. So I can kind of understand the the wrath type of feeling that you're and I can't imagine six people and you were gonna be there. So I'm proud of you for sharing your story. Um grateful for you sharing the story, and it's an inspiration for others that are in some darkness and understand that you can turn it off. You know, for you it was archery. For a lot of other people, sounds like archery helps. But you can find a habit or get involved with something that your mind has to be focused on. I think with you, you talked about focusing on the target and hitting the bowseye and like how that felt. Like, because you have to focus if you want to hit the body.

Purpose, Reframing, And Continuing Bonds

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Have to focus. Yeah, that's that's why it works, right? And it's not just archery, it's not like we found something new here. Um, it's any activity that requires that focus concentration. But when you can have something that that's a mind-body connection, you know, but some other effective therapies, learning to play the drums is is an incredible one for people. Um guitar is good, jujitsu, fly fishing, uh, yoga meditation. There's a lot of you know alternative modalities out there. Um, but archery has the benefit of a kick-ass community that goes with it. Um and it's what a lot of guys miss. You know, there's there's a lot of guys that I think part of my struggles when I first left the military um was just like people can't relate, you know, and and as veterans, we already have that dark sense of humor. Um, but I really did feel it like, you know, when I got to the FBI Academy, thankfully there were some former Marines in my class and I could kind of joke with them. But for the most part, you know, we had we had people in our class that were former principals and scientists and uh you know, street cops with without any uh military experience. And you know, you got to be careful. You crack the wrong type of joke at Quantico and suddenly you, you know, you're out on the street, they don't want you around. Um but average everyday citizens, you know, even outside of the law enforcement community, they just can't relate to what you've seen, done, what you're going through. Um but you have a lot of veterans in the archery community, um, but you also have just like these good old boys and and girls, you know, and it's just like you don't have to be talking about combat-related stuff, but it's just it's that same kind of banter, right? You you you you're aiming at a foam target, a foam deer, and you're aiming for the 12 ring, and you know, you're just outside and you shoot an you shoot a 10, which is still good, and somebody leans over and they're like, hey, you want to you want to not suck next time? And you just start laughing. You know what I mean? It's just like that, that type of of camaraderie that people miss about the military. You find that in the archery industry or in the archery community. Um, but you also find the type of people where you know you walk into an archery shop and you're soaking wet, you don't have a shirt on, and they're like, what happened? You're like, my truck broke down 10 miles ago. Somebody's saying, here's my shirt, somebody else is saying, hop in, we're gonna go get your truck, you know? Uh, and they don't even know who you are. Those are that's that's the other side of this. That's the other gift that I'm giving to people.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Well, I'm glad you shared that because even myself, I'll admit it, I was thinking more of, you know, turning your mind off and focusing on shooting and the target, pulling the bow back, breathing, you know, the control and being in the moment. You're spot on. I wasn't I wasn't in the I don't want to say judgment, but I guess I was being a little judgy. I wasn't thinking of the archery community as impactful as you just shared. So I'm glad you shared that.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah, so for you know, for for our program for Index, it's it's a it's a delta. It's it's three uh columns, if you will. It's your mental and spiritual wellness, it's your physical wellness, because we're getting, you know, in in some of the best cases, we're getting guys off their couch for the first time in months or years. We're getting guys outside of their house, getting them outside, you know, pulling back a heavy pounder, you're doing something physical, probably for the first time in a while. Uh so it's your physical wellness, but then that that social wellness piece is huge. And that's if I give a guy a bow and all he ever does is shoot at 20 yards in his backyard, then then therapy is occurring and his brain is being allowed to process some of that trauma and and do the work, and there's some benefit there. But if you combine those three and you get that social wellness piece, and now it's because he has this this community that he's a part of and he's friends, he wants to shoot more. He wants to go and do more things. And when he starts to have a bad day, he's now got a friend that he can call that actually gives a crap and is not gonna let him off the phone. You know what I mean? It's like that's why it's effective.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Wow, that's cool. So, what type of things do you do as the community that you've built?

Quiet Reflection, Glimmers, And Self-Checks

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, so um we host 3D archery events and and and we host and attend. Uh so here in Central Virginia, and in the communities that we're looking to build some of our outposts through our ambassadors, um, you know, a 3D archery event, think of it uh like playing around a golf or disc golf, right? You go out into the woods, you walk a trail, or it doesn't have to be the woods, it could be a field. Uh you walk a trail, and along that trail you come to your hole or your stake. And at the end of a cut lane, you'll have a realistic animal target. So, you know, it could be a deer, a black bear, uh, but then there's some wacky ones. There's a company out there called Reinhardt, and they make like dinosaurs. They have like a whole Jurassic Park line, so it's like a velociraptor down there. But your your more traditional ones are gonna be North North American game animals. Um they'll be at different distances, one depending on your class, but then they try to vary them, right? So let's say you're shooting, you're shooting in the known 30 class. That means that you can use a rangefinder, and the furthest that animal is gonna be is around 30 yards. There's like a yard or two, give or take, but it's around 30 yards. You can go all the way out to your known 60, and then you have these open pro classes where you have to guess how far that thing is. Um, but it's not going to be further than say 60 yards. Um so you you stand at your stake, you shoot one arrow at that animal, and then everyone in your group, you usually shoot with four to six people. Everyone shoots their arrow. When you go down, there's scoring rings on this animal. You write your score down, on to the next one. And in most, in most um events, there's 20 targets, and then you'll have a 21st target that's your bonus target and lets you replace one of your scores. So you you're out there for, you know, depending on the length of the course, two to four hours, having a good time, shooting, just like you're playing golf. Um and then there's another event that we go to, we're a part of. It's called the Total Archery Challenge. Uh, it's a major event that travels around the country every spring and summer. And they do them primarily at like ski resorts. So in the summer, you know, they're closed down. Um, but you'll take a ski lift up to the top of a mountain, and then you'll shoot an archery course on your way down, and it'll be like, you know, a four to six mile hike, and it's some pretty rough terrain. And now you're instead of taking those 60-yard shots, you might have like a 90-yard shot on a deer target, and there might be you know a moose target at like 120 that's like a novelty shot, and it's off the side of a cliff. Um, just something incredible, you know, or or you'll have a black bear target, but it's tucked behind some rocks, and there's a log in the way, and you've only got like this much of that animal that you can see, and you got to sneak your arrow in there. Um, but it's it's also part trade show. So you get down to the vendor village, and there'll be, you know, index archery will have a booth set up, we'll be hanging out, and you'll have, you know, a hundred other companies down there, and there's prize giveaways, and you know, people are drinking alcohol. And I've been to quite a few of these events. And as soon as I say, hey, there's alcohol there, you think, oh, well, how many fights do people get into? Zero. I've never seen a fight, I've never seen an altercation. Again, because it's that archery community. So you get people in these environments where everyone's there for the weekend for the same reason. We're here to have fun, we're here to shoot bows, hang out. Um, and it's just like the most incredible atmosphere versus, you know, I don't want to hate on the gun community, but I'm also I was a firearms guy in the in the military. I was a firearms instructor for the FBI. I've got a lot of background there, and and I know a lot of people in that community. Um, and it can be very difficult, it could be very braggadocious, uh, it could be very competitive as far as, oh, you're, you know, in the in the archery community, people will like rib each other. It's that four dodge Chevy, you know, with with your bow company. But in the gun community, there's like a little bit more spite to it if you're like a Glock guy versus a SIG guy or staccato guy. You know what I mean? Like people mean it when they're like, oh, you shoot SIG, like go screw yourself. Like, well, what, dude? Um, yeah, no, you don't really get that in the archery community. So that's just one aspect of it. There's also indoor leagues. Um, you know, the Olympics are coming around soon, and you'll see archery in the Olympics. Um, there's field archery, you know, and that's mostly what you see there. Uh, there's indoor archery. There's so many different facets. Uh, and then, you know, one of my other passions is bow hunting. And while Index is not an organization that takes people hunting, that is one of the paths that we can set you on, and then we can partner with you. Probably know of uh Tony Cowden. He's got a nonprofit called The Reason Outdoors. Um, they take guys on hunts. Operation Pay at Ford is another veterans organization that takes people on hunts. So we can partner with those and get guys hunting.

Tribes, Isolation, And Finding Your People

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, I was just thinking, like, hey, going to the range type deal. That those 3D archery events sound pretty amazing, like a a round of golf. People love that, but it's archery. And it's different animals, challenging. I can see like, you know, you're outside, you're walking the trail or like the ski resorts. That's brilliant. Um, I think that's amazing. So, all right, listeners, pause, go in the description, check out Index Archery. You know, you want to know about them, you want to connect with them, all the information will be in there. And please give us a like, subscribe, and share this video with others that you think may need to hear it. We're trying to do positive things in the world, and you giving a little like or sharing this will help us continue to bring that positivity to others and maybe reach more people and help save some lives. So please cost you nothing. Hit the button, like, follow, and share. So, wow, brother, I can't thank you enough for sharing your story. Um, that's incredible and inspiring. I'm proud of you for what you're doing and what you're creating. Um, I just I want to know now, like, how much fire and passion do you have now that you've started this and seeing it shape and change people's lives?

Building The Proving Grounds Vision

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah. Um, it's an inferno. You know, it's it it keeps me going every day. It keeps me, it's it's a drive unlike anything I've ever had before. Um, you know, and I tell people when when I was in the military, you know, I wanted to be in a special operations, and I got the opportunity to go, you know, behind the fence at Fort Bragg and be a part of a tier one unit. And I thought that was like the pinnacle of my life. No, that's like that's like a grain of rice compared to the mission that I'm on now and what I can do again, because I know the impact it had for me and and how Archery changed my life and changed my journey. You know, I I try to be a font of positivity, uh, but it wasn't always like that. And again, I'm I'm still human, you know. And I when I tell people, someone asked me one time, it was a guy I was bringing into the program, and he asked me, this guy had spent uh 10 years uh working child sex crimes, um, looking at some of the most heinous shit in the world. And uh, you know, it affects you. And I've been there, I've that I've done that work. And he asked, if if I've ever had anyone come in my program and go back to being the person they were before, you know, whatever it was happened. Uh I said, No, that's impossible. You can't go back. There is no going back. But you can use what happened to you to to for positive outcomes. And you you can you can change the story so that it's not controlling you anymore, but you control it and you can almost turn it into a superpower. Um but you still have bad days. I still have bad days. Um you know, October 13th is the day that me and Cinco got to Bagra. October 13th sucks for me every year. Um, you know, December's a rough month for me every year because that's when they lost their lives. Um But it used to be come December, um, you know, December 21st, I was taken off work. I was gonna be in a hole, I was probably gonna have some drinks, uh, but I found a really, really great therapist once I was ready to for more therapy. And um I go to work on December 21st now. I celebrate their lives on December 21st. I try to, I try to do something worthy of their sacrifice on December 21st and be a better person because of what happened to me and what happened to them, and not using it as an excuse to be a piece of shit on that day. You know what I mean? And I'm not calling anybody out, you know, everyone, everyone's at their own face. Um, so I hope no one thinks that I'm calling them a piece of shit, but in my mind, you know, the things that I did was was shitty for me.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah. Makes complete sense. And I I like what you did mentally, and this is something that I want to touch on a little bit, and you can share how you did this. So you used to be bummed and down and out, depressed, angry, probably on that December 21st. How did you reframe? Because what you said is you reframe it now, and it's a celebration of their life. That day you now use that. How were you able to make that shift?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

I think it was a gradual um realization for me. Uh, but it's become, you know, it and it has to do with this mission and the impact that we're having on other people's lives. Um, the first person that came to me and said, like, look, they, you know, and and for lack of better words, they were looking into that dark room themselves and they're not anymore, made all the difference to me. And that's when I said, Okay, I need to make sure that I'm okay and that I'm gonna stick around because I have work to do here and work that's important. The amount of of people now that have come to me and told me, you know, um, a couple months ago I had a guy, I'm sitting here right now in the in the, I call it the Beau Raj. It's my little bow shop garage. Uh, but I was sitting here with a guy, you know, and he he had a major life change because his former coping mechanism was alcohol and party it and motorcycles. And then he got married and had a kid and had to clean his life up, you know, because he wanted to, but he was left alone, you know. He hey, I'm not I'm not dealing with the alcohol and the partying anymore. Well, all of his friends were were over there, so now he's alone. Um and he was he was not doing so great, but he was praying just for somebody to come into his life, and then he found us. Um, you know, so him and I are in tears here in my garage, just listening to him, and it's like, yeah. What happened to me in Afghanistan led to this. I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for their sacrifice. It's a gift that they gave me. Um and as and as crappy as that sounds, sometimes the the the Lord will take what was intended for evil and use it for good. And I think this is one of those situations. Um so I have to remain positive and I have to, you know, be thankful for this gift that I have. Um you know, because I could have been standing there. I you know I don't have to be here today. And you and that's the first question you ask yourself, anyone in my situation, anyone dealing with that survivor's guilt, why did I come home from that deployment? And and these people didn't. Okay, well, here's the why, and if you choose to recognize it. Yeah, so that's where the fire comes from, but that's also where that mental shift comes through. I've got so much to be thankful for. Um but nothing good comes from being negative. So so I force myself to be positive and and be appreciative and look at things in that good light.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

So forcing yourself to be positive, you gotta have situational awareness. Okay, like you have to be aware, like you're you're going down that dark path. So how do you do that? Is there techniques or how does that work for you? Can you talk us through that?

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Um, I spend a lot of time in in quiet reflection, you know. Um I think sometimes it's helpful to turn off the noise, the music, the podcasts, even, no offense, and and just spend 20 minutes in your car driving in silence and just do a self-inventory. Um I used to get mad a lot on the road. You know, somebody would cut me off or I'd see somebody on their phone and be like, oh, this idiot. Um you know? And I would I'd start asking myself questions about stuff like that. You know, hey, how's my day going? Do I feel like I'm having a good day? If not, why? Did I just get mad at somebody on the road because they're on their phone and it yeah, it matters, but it doesn't really matter type of way. Um have a conversation with yourself and and check in with yourself. How am I feeling? How am I doing? Uh what did I do today that was good? What did I do today that I didn't like? You know, how did I is there did I act in a way that I didn't like? Did I eat something uh that was unhealthy and I'm trying to do better, you know, all those little things. But I think those those internal conversations um and that again being introspective help you to kind of see the the picture a little bit clearer and and give you those warning signs when you do start, you know, seeing that darker path.

Passion, Purpose, And Staying The Course

SPEAKER_01 42:42

No, that's great. Self-reflection is so important. You and the the quiet space. Absolutely. You got to give yourself that quiet time. Myself, I go out on my front porch, I get a wraparound deck that overlooks my farm. I see my cows and those things, and just those little moments to just take some deep breaths, do some breathing, you know, find the peace in the moment. You know, we we talked about it in being in Afghanistan, like, hey, people were trying to kill me, and then you're seeing the pretty stars at night. Like there's a lot of bad stuff out in the world, but there's a lot of love and beauty too. So you can find it. Um, I'll share something with you and please pass this on and share it with your group is uh glimmers. Now, at first I heard this, I'm like, well, glimmers, what are you talking about? Well, people say triggers. Oh, there's this that triggers me. Oh, that trigger, you know, somebody cut me off, or this happened and you know, this broke and it triggered me, or there's a crowd and I'm getting triggered. Find glimmers. Glimmers are little things that are beauty. Hey, look at the way that sun's coming through the cloud. Hey, look at how blue the sky is today. Oh, look at that bird just sitting there. Man, that's an amazing creature that God made. Like there's glimmers all around. So when you see yourself getting stuck, shift your mind. That's the reframing. Like, hey, I'm gonna, you know, I'm getting triggered now. All right, let's see if I can find a glimmer. So I hope that helps or makes sense. And especially for you listeners out there, I hope that uh is something that you can put in your toolbox and you can use.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Yeah, I think that's wonderfully put. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Well, thanks. I I stole it, kind of. I'd love to take credit for it all. I can't remember where it came across. So whoever shared that with me, I apologize. But uh no, that it's uh, I think a great tool. And having the time to yourself will help you find those glimmers in the world. So I want to talk also about now tribes, you know, the people you surround yourself with, because it sounds like the community part of NDX Archery is amazing. So tell us about community and how being in the right community, even if it's not your program, how that can be game-changing.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, I mean, the simplest way to put it, right, is iron sharpens iron. Um, surround yourself with people that are making you better. Um, but then also find opportunities to pour into other people around you because there's a lot of fulfillment there. Um it but but your communities should be constantly if if you're not improving those around you, those around you should be improving you. If you find yourself stagnant, you know, you're in the wrong room, you're in the wrong group, get out of there. Um you know, whether it's the the archery community, uh another really thriving community that I enjoy a lot is the jujitsu community. I made a lot of really close, genuine friends from jujitsu. Um I think it's vitally important though for people to find that. Uh isolation. Isolation is is the opposite of that, you know, that self-reflection that we talked about. You know, it's it's good to have those quiet moments when you have uh your stuff together and you've got that community to rely on. But if you're isolating and you have no community, well then that leads down a very, very dark road. Um, because you've got you've got nobody but yourself to really talk you out of doing anything stupid.

Tell Your Story And Support Nonprofits

SPEAKER_01 46:08

No, definitely. I I've definitely been talked out of some stupid stuff right now. My buddy Bossey out there, man, brother. Thank you. And you know what I'm talking about. Uh and others. You're not the only one, but uh yeah, the the the tribe around you can be so amazing and so impactful. I think we don't realize sometimes how impactful that the people around you are. You know, I talk about anchors and balloons, you know, balloons are gonna lift you up, you know, they're gonna help you rise up and overcome and get over obstacles. Anchors are gonna drag you down. And you need to assess the people you're around, you know, because if you're around people that all they're doing is drinking and complaining and mad and angry and have this victim mentality, like, oh, poor me or woe is me. That's that's not helpful. You got to break free from that tribe and find a new tribe. Someone like Index Archery or Jiu-Jitsu or whatever it is, you know, someone that's positive. You know a group of people that want the best for you that aren't trying to stop you from getting your dreams. So speaking of dreams, what are you um dreaming about with your next goals? Like where do where do you want to go? I'm I'm sure you want to get out of the beau garage and maybe do more.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Although that might be your happy space. So the goal is a project we call the Index Archery Proving Grounds or Epic. Um it's just it's gonna be a terrible acronym like the military does all the time.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

No, it's gonna be an epic experience.

Closing Gratitude And Calls To Support

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Exactly. It's an epic experience. So uh again, you know, part of part of my path to getting here, I don't think anything happens by coincidence. And and during my my short six years in the FBI, um, I had the opportunity to get sent to a post-critical incident seminar. So this is something the FBI does. Anytime you get into a shooting or a mass casualty event or people towards the end of their careers who've worked, again, you know, if you spent 20 years working crimes against children, um, you've probably seen some things. So they send you for a four-day uh, I don't want to call it a retreat, but it is uh it's a seminar. Um and there you just get exposed so much. Uh group sessions with a counselor, there's uh a chaplain there, there was a support animals. Uh the mornings are usually filled with classes, and it could be classes on how to sleep better, how to eat better, uh, how to manage your day, um, you know, signs and symptoms of trauma. In the afternoons, it was kind of a choose your own adventure where you'd have four one-hour blocks and they'd say, you know, you could go get a massage, you could go learn yoga, you could go do tai chi, go do art therapy, but they would encourage you at least pick at least one hour of something that you would never choose otherwise. If you weren't here specific specifically for this event, you would never do it. Um so that's a it was a four-day event. And I left there with just like such a different perspective on what's possible for for index. Um so what I what I plan to put together is a five-day retreat for people from all over the country. Um it's gonna be kind of a small batch, so I'm thinking somewhere between five to ten heroes, and you pair them one-on-one with a mentor, uh, someone who's already established in archery, um, and hopefully someone who has both served, experienced trauma, and you know, has it has an archery background so that they can relate on so many levels. Um you start with an archery-centric retreat. You set up their bow, you teach them the skills, you start shooting. Uh, but after about two hours of your first session, you need a break. So then maybe we roll into environmental therapy, being like coal tanks and saunas, or maybe we do yoga, or maybe it's a group session with a therapist. Um, the goal being during the first four days, you throw as many wellness modalities as you can into that four first four days, you know, and you're loving on them with good meals, you've got campfires every night, um, special events. Uh my brother's a musician, so maybe use that to like have live music one night, um, some guest speakers. And then on day five, we opened uh the proving grounds, which is gonna, it's uh my plans is a hundred-acre um mostly wilderness complex with multiple archery ranges and stuff on it. But we open that up to the public for a 3D archery event. So now that archery community, that great community that exists that I was telling you about, they're coming onto the property. The heroes are getting to meet them for the first time. So we got food trucks, again, maybe some live music on that day, but we host a 3D shoot and everyone comes out and they have a great time. So then that hero goes back home to the ambassador that sent him to us, and he's got his bow and arrow. He's got at least one or two other skills and coping mechanisms, and then from there he gets to meet his local archery community. Uh, that's the goal for us. And it's it's ambitious. It's probably gonna take around five million dollars to get started. Um, but but I'm working with some folks and we've got a plan to uh start raising money so that I could potentially start doing this full time and start working to build um the proving grounds.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

That sounds like an amazing event, and I have no doubt it's gonna happen because God's got a plan. And you're here for a reason, you're doing this, so uh it's it's gonna happen, you're putting it out there. And listeners, hey, if you want to donate and help make this happen, like I said, hit pause, go in the description, find the links, and reach out because I'm sure they'd appreciate any help, how big or how small, it doesn't matter. It's the uh the thought and the effort. So this is a every dollar counts for us. No, absolutely. And I'm just so glad that you have a mission and the passion. So can you share with people like how important is it to find like passion and purpose in life?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah, um, I I think it's critical to to living, you know, that that fulfilling life and and keeping ourselves fulfilled. Um, and a lot of us lose that. You know, for me, I wanted to join the military since I was a small child. I just knew that that's what I was gonna do. And I thought I was gonna be, you know, if you'd asked me 15 years ago, yeah, I'm gonna be in for 30 years, I'm gonna make chief, I'm gonna make E9, you know, and I love everything about being in the military. Um, but that changed, you know, and I and I kind of that you know, around 2019 I had lost that passion for what I was doing. Um and I thought it was gonna be law enforcement and the FBI, and I lost that as well. Um and I think I've seen I've seen people lose purpose and lose passion and and become a shell of the person they were. Um but it's also, I mean, just whether it's someone who reignites a relationship with the Lord and starts going back to church or finds a new career, purpose, whatever, when you can hear those stories or or see that in person, you see that transformation in a person, um, you know, it's so apparent how important purpose is.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Yeah, I agree 100%. It's it's something that creates fulfillment in one's life. If you don't have that, it's easy to be down on yourself. You know, it's easy to be stuck in that dark room or going into dark places because you don't have somewhere you're trying to go that is full of light. There is something that's giving back. Yeah. So what would you tell your younger self? You know, if you could go back before you joined the military, maybe your teenage years, what what type of lessons would you share for our younger audience or what would you share with yourself?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

You know, I that's one of the things that I reflect on all the time. You know, and I think I think it's very common for people to have that daydream. And man, if I could go back, if I could go back to eighth grade and have all the knowledge that I have right now, understand everything, but I'm in eighth grade, what would I do differently? And part of me says, like, well, you know, back in 2011, the first time you heard about Bitcoin, because some some airman was buying asset tablets on the dark web with it, buy Bitcoin, you know. Um I had another guy, I was when I was becoming a firearms instructor for the Air Force, it's called uh combat arms training and maintenance. I was in that schoolhouse and we had this guy, he, you know, part of it is you have to give speeches because you're becoming, you know, an Air Force instructor as well. Uh this guy gave a speech on this weird company called Tesla, and they were making these electric cars. And afterwards, you know, we all went out to dinner and he was trying to get people to buy stocks in this company. And I'm like, I don't care about your robot cars. Yeah, if I could go back and buy Tesla, but those are the things you know you think about, but then really what I always come back to is what would I do differently? Nothing. If I could tell myself, if I could go back and talk to my teenage self or you know, that 18-year-old A1C McCoy, you know, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, bleeding blue for the Air Force, I would just say, hey man, like take a few more pictures and try to enjoy the ride a little bit more. But just enjoy it. Um and and I would change nothing because again, the way that I live my life and the faith that I have, um when I look in the rear view mirror and I see everything that had to happen to get me to the place where I am right now, I couldn't have planned that out. It's not my doing, you know what I mean? Uh the plan's too perfect, the pieces all fit together a little bit too nicely for it to be coincidence. Uh so I know that where I am, there's nothing that I could do to change it. You know what I mean? Uh and that can sound discouraging to some people who feel like they're in in a in a negative place right now. And they're like, oh, you think you know God has this grand plan for you and you've got this nonprofit and look at you with all your hopes and dreams, but my life sucks. Um, I would tell you to, you know, trust the Lord um and and know that sometimes when when our life is is the worst, because you take me back to 2015, December, December 22nd of 2015, and I felt like my life sucked pretty bad right then and there. Um, but sometimes he is preparing us. You know, we we we ask God for strength, so he gives us something super heavy to carry. You know, we ask God for wisdom, so he throws a bunch of really hard lessons at us. Um it's it's never gonna be he snaps his fingers and you get what you wanted.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Um, very, very well put. Very well put. And like you said earlier, iron iron sharpens iron, you know, and the heat, fire, pressure, you know, that's for you to come out better and stronger on the other side. How many examples are out there in the world? Your story. I've got stories, friends, people that have been on the show have amazing stories, lost limbs, you know, and they're like, it's one of the best things that ever happened to me because it helped me focus on this or that or change, you know, I'm a better person now because of it. And it's if you're in that hard spot, realize it's gonna shape you and mold you to do bigger and better things. And you just need to understand that. Give yourself grace. We all suffer, we all get angry, we all get depressed. Give yourself that grace and just take one small step each day. Yep. Just step by step, and next thing you know, you're a mile down the road or the journey that you're on, and you can do it. And I think, Jay, you're a prime example of that. And I'm I'm proud of you. I know I already said this, but I'm proud of you for sharing that story because losing people that you're that close with and you lived with in years, I mean, military people know what I'm talking about. Like you're you're bunking together, you're eating together, you're going to bed, you're waking up, you're doing all the things, and it's it's losing a family member. And it's it's hard. And for you to figure it out and now empower yourself to help others because of that and where you're at, that's it's amazing. And I hope his story gives you listeners hope. Like it can happen. Whatever dark spot you're in, it doesn't have to be dark forever. Light will shine again. You could be in a tornado, and guess what? A tornado passes, it's gonna rip your life apart. But it gets if you're alive still, you know what? The sun's gonna come out again. There's gonna be a blue sky again. It can't be a tornado forever. So hold on, grab something, find a friend, find a program, find people around you, and get out there, go for a walk, and just change your life because you are ultimately your greatest asset. You can change your life more than anybody else can. So before we wrap up today, is there anything else you want to share, Jay, with the audience and what you would like to send away with or give another plug, whatever it is you want to do?

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah, well, you know, you've you've thanked me for telling my story, but I'll say, you know, it hadn't always it hadn't always been that way. Um, you know, and early on I had had a lot of trouble telling my story. Um, so I can encourage your listeners, if they have a story to tell, start telling it. Um and and because a lot of times it's not just your story, it's it's someone else's story too, whether it's a story of loss or um, you know, sometimes something bad happened to you, and there's a story of of the person who did it to you. Um, but there's power in telling that story and exposing that negativity. Um, but for me, you know, there's there's a lot of power in telling their story and saying their names, um, and and letting people know that they lived. And in in telling my story, it often opens up questions about them as well. Um so I so I get to remember. them in a positive way. But it also helped me heal. Just to get it off my chest. So tell the story. I think it's very powerful. So I appreciate you for for you know thanking me. But it's, you know, I'm I'm happy to be doing it. Other than that, um yeah, there's a lot of great nonprofits out there trying to do good, uh trying to fill the gap between, you know, the VA and and all of these other service entities. Like I said, you know, we focus a lot on veterans. We also focus on first responders. They don't have a VA. You know, a lot of times first responders are it can be a very thankless job. So, you know, just support the people in your community, the heroes that that protect our freedoms and the heroes that protect our communities, support them. You don't have to support Index Archery, but I encourage everyone to to find a nonprofit out there to support and the impact that people can make by being a continuous donor, a monthly donor. If someone gave me$5 a month for a year, that's much more impactful than than one$20 donation. And you may not think about that, but if I had a hundred people giving me$5 a month, I can I can start buying bow packages, you know, uh if I had a thousand people giving me$5 a month, I can start putting together more programs and changing a lot of lives. You know what I mean? So for your listeners, just think about that. Find a nonprofit a dollar a month, five dollars a month or whatever, you can really change that nonprofit's life and their trajectory just by something as simple as five bucks a month. Set it and forget it. You know PayPal will let you do it. You're probably wasting that much on your second Netflix subscription or that Hulu you never log into anymore or something. You know what I mean I guarantee you've got five dollars somewhere that you could give every month to a nonprofit. But yeah, we need your help. I know the economy's rough right now for everyone but it's also rough for nonprofits. So that's that's my pluck. Really appreciate your time and I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the platform and a chance to get you know our word and our mission out.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Well it was an honor to have you here. Thank you for your service. Thank you for what you're doing now. I can't wait to uh see uh what Epic turns into I I love it I I've already started to visualize it and see it you know with the whole campfires afterwards training all the events and then ending with the the whole 3D archery course and like that's that's an amazing program and the way you're visualizing it and the way you're sharing it yeah I see it it's gonna happen. So more power to be epic of course why wouldn't it be but seriously everybody out there thank you for watching please don't forget to like follow and subscribe share this and it costs you nothing to give a like and subscribe but it really helps us get out there and share our messages with other people that need to hear these things and thank you again as always don't forget own your power