33: Fewer, Better Things — How to Reduce Kitchen Clutter and Waste with Sasha Mazzuca

Our homes are full of things we barely notice until they start to feel heavy. Duplicate pantry items, forgotten gadgets, drawers that are full of junk... And suddenly, everyday life feels harder than it needs to be.

In this episode, I’m joined by Sasha Mazzuca, founder of Disch and a professional organizer, for a thoughtful conversation about our relationship to stuff — and how choosing fewer, better things can make daily life feel calmer, more functional, and more sustainable.

Sasha shares how years of organizing clients’ kitchens led her to a surprisingly universal problem: the towel drawer. From there, she walks us through how thoughtful design, simple systems, and well-made tools can reduce clutter, decision fatigue, and waste — without requiring a full lifestyle overhaul.

We talk about why eco-friendly products don’t have to be boring or expensive, how paper towels quietly add up in both cost and resources, and why the kitchen is often the easiest place to start building more sustainable habits. This conversation is especially timely for anyone feeling the pull to declutter, reset, or simplify — without chasing perfection.

Takeaways

• Why clutter often comes from delayed decisions and forgotten duplicates
• How professional organizing intersects with sustainability
• Common myths about eco-friendly products — including cost and aesthetics
• Why the kitchen is a natural gateway to sustainable living
• Why paper towels are one of the easiest places to reduce waste
• How fewer, better-designed tools can support lasting habits

One Small Shift

Sasha suggests starting with one drawer — especially the towel drawer. Choosing tools that actually work, fit neatly, and get used every day can reduce clutter, waste, and mental load far more than we expect.

Connect With Sasha / Disch

Website

Instagram

Facebook

Resources

What To Use Instead of Paper Towels (blog post)

10 Zero Waste Kitchen Swaps That Save You Money (blog post)

A Beginner's Guide to a Sustainable Kitchen (e-book - use code PODCAST20)

5 Easy Plastic-Free Kitchen Swaps (previous episode)

Transcript

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Sarah (00:00.59)
One of the heaviest things in your home isn't a piece of furniture, but all the little things. The duplicate pantry items, the forgotten gadgets, the mishmash of tea towels that don't quite work, all quietly demanding decisions you just don't have the energy to make. If you're feeling the urge to declutter this month, but don't know where to start, this episode is for you. We're talking about our relationship to our stuff, the endless decisions about it, and how choosing fewer but better things can change it all.

starting with one kitchen drawer. Welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs, a podcast for the eco-curious who want to live a greener life and are looking for a place to start. I'm your host, Sarah Robertson Barnes, a soccer mom with a station wagon and a passion for sustainable living. Each week, I'll bring you practical tips and honest conversations to help you waste less, save money, and make small doable shifts that actually fit your real life. Because sustainable living doesn't have to be perfect to matter, and you don't have to do it all to make a difference.


Hello and welcome back to Sustainable in the Suburbs, the podcast where we start where we are, use what we have and live a little greener, one small shift at a time. My name is Sarah and I'm so glad to be spending time with you today. Just a quick reminder that this show is made possible by listeners like you. So if you've been enjoying the show, one of the best ways to support it is to share an episode with a friend and it really helps new folks find us. You can also leave a quick rating or a review wherever you're listening today.

and come connect with me on Instagram. I'm over there at Sarah Robertson Barnes, or you can head over to the website, sustainableinthesuburbs.com slash podcast, and you'll find the show notes and a place to suggest topics or guests that you'd love to hear from on future episodes. Today's episode is all about simplifying the spaces we use every single day and how small shifts in the kitchen can make your whole home feel more organized, more functional, and a lot more sustainable.

speaker-0 (01:58.934)
I recently met today's guest, Sasha Mazuka, at the Berry Fall Home and Lifestyle Show. She and her mom were running the Dish Towels booth. And after she sat in on my talk about creating a more sustainable kitchen, we had a great conversation. It was clear right away that we share a similar approach to organization, habits, and the small changes that can really make a difference in a busy family home.

And since January is such a natural time to rethink our routines and build new habits, this conversation felt like a perfect one to kick off the new year. Sasha is the founder of Dish, a purpose-driven line of eco-friendly kitchen towels made from recycled plastic bottles. And with a background in professional organizing, she brings together smart, functional design with real sustainability, creating products that are genuinely beautiful to use.

She's passionate about making the kitchen a calmer, more organized place and about helping families replace everyday disposables with something better. Today we're talking about the aha drawer moment that sparked Dish, why organization is such a powerful entry point into more sustainable living, the surprising amount of paper towels the average household goes through, and how a small, well-designed swap can make your kitchen feel more intentional and more sustainable.

also going to get into clutter, consumption, and the real reasons why so many of us end up with far more stuff than we realize. Here's my conversation with Sasha.

Sasha, I'm so glad you're here today. Welcome to the show. I'm excited. Before we get into the details of DISH, I'd love to start by just grounding listeners into who you are and the work that you do. So for folks who are just meeting you, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Sasha (03:38.84)
Thanks so much for having me, Sarah.

speaker-1 (03:55.406)
Yeah, so I'm a 47, newly 47 year old woman with two boys and a husband living downtown Toronto. I was in the corporate world for a very long time before I left about eight years ago. And I found myself in some passion work that I didn't even know I had, which was the world of professional organizing. And

I loved every minute of it and I did that for the past five years and some things in life changed and I decided I wanted to get into a product-based business. People thought it was a little crazy, but I jumped in headfirst almost a year ago, earlier this year and here we are.

Very exciting. And we'll get to that in just a second. But I'm super curious how you just found yourself in professional organizing.

Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think I've always been a closet organizing nerd. I did it in business without even knowing. Like I was the type of person that the Excel spreadsheet just couldn't, you know, be numbers. It actually had to have colors and be organized by rainbow or, you know, random things like that where it really, for me,

Organizing came into play everywhere. wasn't just in the home. It was sort of in everything I did. And I didn't really know it at the time until I left my job and I started going through my house and getting rid of things and organizing everybody's bedroom. And then all of a sudden, you know, it became a real big, like organizing your home was like, you know, the next big thing.

speaker-1 (05:46.414)
coming out everywhere, all over Netflix, you know, and then COVID happened. So nobody wanted to look at anything in their home and everybody needed to get organized. Everybody wanted to clean. Everybody wanted to reclaim their space so that they felt good in it because they couldn't leave their home. So that was the moment where I actually got into it and there was a super high demand for it. So we went gangbusters when we started, which was amazing. And I just,

Peace.

speaker-1 (06:16.334)
It was really weird. People would hug me when I would leave their homes. And I just didn't understand how everybody didn't possess this gene and how everybody didn't just see the way things I saw them. I'm like, this is super easy. All you got to do is this. And they're like, I don't even know what you're doing right now, but it's amazing.

of us are a Sagittarius, so we do.

Well, right. Some of us are hyper focused Scorpios. So there you go.

I was going say that or you're skipping Virgo, but okay.

Okay, yeah, no. When I worked with, for most of my professional organizing period was Virgo. So there you go, together she was my work wife, so.

speaker-0 (06:57.774)
When you started talking about spreadsheets, I'm like, oh, this is my book.

There you go.

So when you started working in clients' kitchens, what's something that you were noticing like again and again? I always recommend starting in the kitchen as a starting point for sustainable living. And I we've had this conversation about kitchens. I'm really curious, like what's a common thing that you were seeing?

Yeah, so I mean, in the world of dish towels, it's kind of funny. One of the women that I used to work with that was the Virgo, whenever we would, you as organizers, we would get overwhelmed too, because, you know, you're in somebody's space, it's all new things, and it's not yours. And it comes with a lot of emotions. And sometimes we would get overwhelmed and we would say, I just need to go fold tea towels. And that was our signal to each other that

I need you to jump in because right now I'm getting overwhelmed with this person's things and I'll be back in five minutes. I just need that moment to go full details. And that was sort of like this meditative state where you would get into folding details. However, in that zone, you would be looking at this drawer full of mismatched, smelly, different sizes, different fabrics. And your mission was to

speaker-1 (08:17.934)
know, the typical drawer when you open it, it's got stacks of folded towels. And your mission is to make this open up like it's files. So it's all file folded neatly in the drawer and you could pick any one you want. You don't have to take the top one because you can see them all now. And this was like something that blew people away. They were like, how did you make my dish towels look like this? This is amazing. The one drawback we always had was that

everybody had a different size towel. Like none of them matched, none of them were the same. So we had to do all these, you know, million different folds in order to make them line up in the drawer. That was sort of the drawer moment for me where I was like, somebody just needs to make a dish towel that's all the same size, all the same fabric, all the same look. And I sort of, you know, parked that for another day. But I thought that would make my life easier as a professional organizer, because then I could leave and nobody would

Like everybody would know what to do. They would be like, there's one fold and this is it. I can show you what to do and you'll, that's all you'll ever need to know. And it never was the case. I would leave and a week later it would be, how do I get this to look like this again? Like which, how many folds did you do here to get them to all line up? And that was sort of the reoccurring theme that we just kept seeing in all of the kitchens that we were in.

Yeah, I'm like the Monica Geller with the 14 different categories of towels. And so I can relate about all the different types of tea towels that I have in my home. And I have ones that are my favorites and ones that I don't use, but I hang on to because they don't dry or they don't absorb or.

Somebody gave you them and they're calling your name and you feel guilty about getting rid of them.

speaker-0 (09:59.778)
Yeah. Yep. 100%. So what did those early steps look like for you then when you unpacked that idea and you started creating Dish?

Yeah, that's a great question. know, look, becoming an entrepreneur in any fashion is a lot of work. So the product based business had me asking myself, do I just want to contribute more product? Is this going to be more waste? You know, what exactly am I creating here that's going into the universe? So I really did my due diligence in looking at fabrics and

How was this going to affect the everyday person? How's this going to affect my children? Am I just adding to the landfill? And that's when I started discovering this fabric that can be made out of recycled plastic. And it was mind blowing. And that was the moment I knew, I'm like, I can do this in a way that's eco-friendly and that's luxurious. It doesn't have to just equal bland and beige.

And so I started going on this mission and doing sampling and, you know, ordering samples, feeling fabrics, testing them out, washing them, seeing how they worked. And there was this moment in the sampling phase because I also actually had a broken dishwasher to top it off. So we were washing all our dishes and, you know, it was like one of those moments where like, well, we could just go buy a new dishwasher, but we also want to renovate our kitchen. So.

if we commit to that dishwasher now, does that mean like we're going to like it when we redo the kitchen? So was one of those moments where we're like, we just need to press pause and wash the dishes. Nobody's going to die. And there was always this sort of complaint of like how many tea towels the kids would go through when they were drying, because I would do the washing. And so when I was testing this fabric, it was actually the opposite. It was hyper absorbent. And this is sort of one of those myths people have around

speaker-1 (12:08.226)
you know, I get this at a lot of shows where it's like, it's made of plastic, so it can't be absorbent. And I'm like, it's actually the opposite. It's made of these tiny little fibers that create this weave. It's like a waffle weave, what we call it the dish weave. And those fibers act like little sponge pockets and they grab the water. So when we were testing, I was like, this is wild. So it's not only eco-friendly, but I can design it.

the way I want it to look. And they're really great. So that's kind of what propelled me into moving forward with it because I felt confident that I wasn't going to just be producing more waste in the world, that I was going to actually have a little bit of a cause behind me collecting bottles from landfills, repurposing them, upcycling them, and actually creating a really great product.

It is a really great product. We actually met at a home show and I was giving a talk on sustainable living and like not using paper towels in your kitchen anymore. And you were just like, God, in the back. And so we talked about this a lot and I did buy some and bring them home. And we are not, we are only just cycling through those two now. So I definitely need to get some more, but.

I'm excited for listeners to hear how their quick drying and the sizing and the care instructions and all of that. But I just wanted to say that my husband, Brad, is extremely picky about the tea towels for drying. yours are the only ones he actually likes because I'm not convinced they're made of recycled plastic. I think it must be unicorn hair.

They're so good.

speaker-0 (13:48.5)
But can you walk us through the process of how it becomes from a bottle into the fabric?

Yeah, so they collect the bottles obviously. And through that process, they chop them into these tiny, tiny little chips and very small, very tiny chips and they have them washed. So they go through a whole washing process where it gets rid of any residue that maybe it wasn't just a water bottle but it could have been a pop bottle or something else. so...

They do this whole washing process and then these chips get so diluted that they turn this into a yarn. And from that yarn, they then sew the fabric into the specific weight that I need for my towels. And they weave it into this waffle weave, the dish weave we call it. Yeah, so it's like a little sort of washing process that recycles these bottles.

and makes them brand new. It's amazing. Like you wouldn't think that something like this can be done. You know, there's tons of different things I'm seeing out there. People making jackets out of bottles and you know, it's wild.

Yeah, and we have an absolute surplus of this material on the earth right now and letting it just sit rather than at least keeping it in use and out of the landfill is really important. And I know that being like legit sustainable and not greenwashing this is really important to you. So can you tell us a bit more about working with these like certified materials and partners and what that means?

speaker-1 (15:29.494)
Yeah. And that was something that was really important to me because I wanted to make sure that, you know, we're actually doing what we're saying we're doing. So I was very specific in my contracting with a manufacturer around, you know, certain certificates. So, you know, these global recycling certificates. Gosh.

I don't remember all the acronyms now, my bad, but there's a lot of, we have a lot of certificates that cover off the fabric that we're using and that they're creating to make sure that the standards are being met.

style certification and that sort of thing.

Exactly. And I'm in the process of looking into B Corp and even a giving back program just to take it one step further, because I know we are at a luxurious price point and I want to be able to make sure that this kind of thing is accessible. So I'm looking into a giving back program at the moment to see how else we can help in this way. yeah.

Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate that because you can just say anything's eco-friendly. Yeah, You can just throw the recycling symbol on anything and it doesn't mean anything. So these certifications and being really upfront about them is really important.

speaker-1 (16:44.506)
It's wild. Like I actually, when I went through the process of manufacturing my shipping bags, I didn't want to then go out and create more plastic to then ship to people. So was like, well, how am going to get around this dilemma? When they arrive, I think I almost cried. Like I did a video on it on my Instagram and I was like, I did an unboxing and I was in disbelief because I put so much into finding a manufacturer that was actually legitimate.

in producing 100 % compostable bags. And I had the manufacturer that I work with, they had told me that people are just saying they're compostable, but they're not. And they're like, you really need to actually find out every single ingredient that they're using because they may be, you know, partly compostable. And you can't go ahead and tell that to people and then they're throwing it in their compost and that's going into the earth and our food and not actually breaking down. So.

That moment for me when I actually got those bags was like a tear to my eye because I was like, worked really hard on designing them and even everything down to the size. was like, I need to be able to, like, I also didn't want to do multiple packaging. So I was like, you know, in my mind, I was like, okay, if people buy 12, should I have a box? If people buy three, should I have this size bag? I was like, how about I just do one bag that can hold two, four, six, eight, all the way up to 12. And that's what I managed to do. But it was like,

measuring to the millimeter and going back and forth with my manufacturer for like weeks trying to just figure out the exact dimensions to make this work so that I can fit all sizes in because I just didn't want to produce any waste anywhere.

That's so smart. Only have one packaging option. I'm really glad that you brought that up about compostability though, because I remember you showing me the bags and I asked like, are these home compostable? yeah. So we went through the whole thing. But it's interesting when you say that because compostable and home compostable mean different things. Normally, what compostable means is that it is accepted in a municipal program and goes to an industrial facility.

speaker-0 (18:50.826)
And then we get stuck in the old where facilities exist doom loop because facilities do not exist in a lot of places. So where I live, I'm up in York region. We can't put things like that in the green bin because they're not accepted by our program because they can't be processed by the facility. But what I will do is chop it up and put it out in my backyard composter. And then I keep an eye like to do those little experiments. I did it with my phone case, which completely disappeared. So.

Amazing!

Yeah, it was very exciting. And actually, I owe the people a follow up reel on that. just realized. Wait, it's gone. That just now occurred to me. Exactly. It's gone out of sight out of mind. So.

I can't film it because it's gone.

plan. Like it's just dirt now. That was the goal. now it'll be tomatoes next year. It's fine.

speaker-1 (19:40.518)
Yeah, you know what, it's interesting that you say that because my mom also told me about this with the different zones and I didn't know that and her and I were in Vegas, Las Vegas, not too long ago. And while we were there, I had a salad and it was in a compostable container and I was like, this is great. But there was still like a little bit of food left and you you go up to the garbage and you're kind of like, what's compostable? What's recycling? What's paper? You know, it's says different things.

not in Las Vegas. In Las Vegas, it says, put it in this bin and we'll sort it for you. I'm like,

Is someone actually going to go through this and sort it? Like I just in my deepest core to myself, I thought this is all going in the trash, isn't it? Like nothing's actually being done with this. And you know, Las Vegas, if you hear this, I apologize if you do have a way to do this, but I just, I just don't think that's possible. I don't think it's possible to go in one bin and somewhere somebody is sorting through food and plastic and paper and whatever trash you're throwing in there.

Yeah, it's incredibly confusing. And part of that is on purpose. Because it again, puts the onus on us of the individual. And so I call things like that like fancy garbage. It's feel good garbage. I don't know.

Interesting. I like that fancy garbage. I made that one.

speaker-0 (21:05.358)
So I'd love to shift into something that you raised like right away in our very first conversation. And this was like the myths that people have about eco-friendly products. Like there's, and you mentioned it earlier, there's this idea that sustainable has to mean like beige or boring or less effective. But I know that for you, the design piece really matters to help folks stick with it. But at the same time, we're trying to balance, you know, thoughtful purchasing and using what we already have and

but ask me, it's a Tarian. So I guess, yeah, what do you think most people get wrong about this type of design?

It's kind of wild because you think about how much we've progressed in the past, gosh, even five years, let alone 10. And sometimes people still think that, you know, eco-friendly means it's going to be like scratchy and uncomfortable or, you know, beige and boring, or, you know, all those different sort of thoughts that you had back in the day when things were made of hemp. You know, and it's like, we've moved past that. There's been so much innovation.

You you look at massive companies like Salomon and Patagonia and like they're just making these brilliant things out of plastic or raw materials and people don't even notice it. They don't even realize it or it's sort of the second thought of like, that cool. That's eco-friendly too. But really they're buying it for the look. And so I wanted to make sure that it has a look that people are.

House proud, the house proud people are like, I want to this on the counter. I want to leave this out. And it's almost like this, have to, you know, the marketing has changed for me. It really, I came out strong with it's eco-friendly and it was almost a bit of a deterrent for some people. They were kind of like, hmm, okay, yeah, like that's great, but I want something that looks good. So, you know, there's this little bit of shift where I have to say like both things are happening, you know, and I have to.

speaker-1 (23:06.158)
push both sides of it because they look great. I mean, I'm not saying that because I designed them because I'm a crazy designer or anything. I did what I could and maybe one day I'll move to where I can work with a designer to help me with what they look like. But I think that that is one of the challenges is people just feel like it can't be beautiful if it's recycled. And having said that, you think about

a material like cotton. And a lot of people assume like, you know, we need 100 % cotton because it's better for our skin and it's non-toxic. And that's 100 % true. Like I, from what I know. And that's amazing. Like if you can have that, but the amount of production and materials that go into producing cotton is a lot and it's very resource heavy.

You know, I think I can't remember the statistic, but something around like 2000 liters to create one pair of jeans or something like that. You know, it's wild. Like you're just kind of going 2000 liters of water. You know, yes, we can live in that space, but we also need to not ignore what's going on over in this space, which is the fact that, you know, landfill is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So back to the whole myth thing is that.

Being made out of plastic can be beautiful. And I think it's really important that for the next generation, we are focusing on sustainability and how we're pushing that forward. Like our children need green trees. They cannot have plastic trees. That's not going to be the next thing, right? We can't live without our oceans. We cannot live without trees. And, you know, they say like, when you want to look at the future, look at the ocean. And right now, ours is being filled with garbage.

and the fish we eat are 2 % plastic or something like that. It's just not the place we really wanna be. And I can't change the world, but I can do a small part.

speaker-0 (25:15.214)
I'm so glad you said that about like looking sort of to landfill as material because yeah, it's like, I don't subscribe to the like plastic bag. Obviously plastic is bad, but it's like, yes, and, but we also have a mountain of it and it can either just sit there or we can keep it in use because it's here. So yes, we have to turn off the tap, but we also.

Yeah.

speaker-0 (25:41.686)
need to, my gosh, we need to absorb it with something. We need to clean it up, right?

Just like, a second. So yeah, there's also this huge myth, I think, that sustainable products have to be more expensive. So how do you think about that? How do you approach that conversation with customers?

Yeah, mean, look, I, the way I look at it is it's a great product and it's going to last you, you know, people are spending some obscene amount on paper towels every year. I think we go through like, not we, but people that buy paper towels go through a hundred rolls a year, you know, and I've seen it firsthand being in other people's homes and organizing their kitchens and their kids come home and grab the first sheet and just start running with it until it's almost gone. And

I have no judgment. Everybody's got their life. They've got enough going on. People have things in their lives that they deal with what they have in front of them. So if you need to grab a bunch of paper towels from time to time, that is what it is. But the way I look about the product that I'm selling that is eco-friendly and is design forward is that it's a simple, easy eco-swap in your kitchen. So it's that.

saving you down the road with all the paper towel that you're about to buy to something that's sustainable and easy to purchase. I'm not saying, you know, go decide on, you know, I don't know, like I need you to go clean up all the garbage in the park next to you every single weekend for the rest of, you know, and that's how you can feel better about the planet. It's like, this is a simple, easy fix, right? And in terms of the cost of it,

speaker-1 (27:28.53)
is it goes through process, know, it has to get to where it is. But it's also worth it. Like I see linen tea towels out there that are ridiculously priced and they don't actually work. They just start like a pretty prop. So they're like, wow, those are really nice. Yes, but they don't actually do anything. So, you know, pushing around the water is what they sort of do if you've ever tried to wipe anything up with linen.

So in my mind, they're worth every penny.

So the myth that sustainable living is more expensive, I think, just comes from the fact that you're buying better products. Of course, there's going to be, I mean, it's capitalism. There is going to be things that are at an outrageous price point that don't need to be. But when you are discerning about it, you're buying fewer but better products that will last you much, much longer rather than spending that money, like you said, every week on disposables.

And again, in the conversation we had at the home show, we were basically just like shaking each other about paper towels, right? Because that's one of our biggest expenses in the kitchen outside of food, obviously. It's just something that we purchased just to literally throw it away five seconds later. And most of us have no idea how much we're using, partly because they're convenient and we always seem to have a bunch of them on hand. I don't know where people are storing these Costco size.

packages of them, but like you said, it can be up to 100 rolls a year, which blows my mind. And they're not cheap.

speaker-1 (28:57.994)
for something you use for three seconds.

Yeah. And like, this is why I keep saying the kitchen is like the gateway to sustainable living because it is one of these things where you can replace these disposables with reusables. And they're such an easy swap and they cut down on waste and they reduce the need to store all these huge bulky things, all of this. So yeah, what have you, what have you noticed about in your organizing work or now about just how much people are going through paper towels and.

Yeah, mean, I had a very, you know, high end clientele and during COVID, I think what a lot of them had going was, and this was just because I think this was the time where everybody was in this space of ordering online. So we couldn't go anywhere, we couldn't do anything. And the easy thing was to obviously order online. So what Amazon had done is they created this subscription world.

And from that subscription world, well, you need all your cleaning products because we're in a pandemic. So you need to make sure those are showing up because they're going to sell out. Right. Because the whole world is looking for, you know, Lysol and paper towel and everything's off the shelves. We're all we're gone everywhere. Right. Yeah. And it was like created this world of scarcity where we felt like we needed more and and we needed to have it first because it might sell.

Cleaning our groceries phase.

speaker-1 (30:25.582)
So having this little subscription button on Amazon is what a ton of my clients had. I would organize, a lot of them had like basement pantries. So I would organize them. And let me tell you, it was probably the most amazing thing to organize because they looked like grocery stores. Like I had people's pantries looking like grocery stores. They were like lined up. They had so many of each product and it looked amazing. I was like,

Pinterest worthy. But it was like, okay, hold on. Walu was there one day. I was organizing this one pantry and the doorbell rang and nobody was home. It was just me. Like I was very trusted to work in people's homes while they were not there. Went to the door, Amazon's there, paper towel, Lysol, like six packs of Lysol, know, 12, 24 packs of paper towels. Like everything was in large quantities. And I'm like,

I just finished organizing, making all of this fit and now more is coming in. like, what's going on? Why is more coming in? And that's when the Amazon subscription switch flipped on in my head. And I had spoken to my client. She came home before I left for the day. And I said, Hey, you actually just got more paper towels and Lysol delivered, but there's tons downstairs. So what do want to do with this? Cause we don't have any room. And she goes, it's the Amazon subscription. And I was like, okay.

going to make a suggestion just from a standpoint of sustainability and from the fact that you don't have room for anymore is that you should probably switch that subscription. And she did, and she had no idea, but it was like living in this world of like not even knowing she had literally four kids and a nanny and it was like the last thing she was looking at. Like she needed help. And that one thing just probably saved her a lot of money and a lot of space after.

that.

speaker-1 (32:21.218)
you know, making that suggestion. But it was wild. And I think, you know, the shopping world can push people into scarcity in certain times. Right. And I think that's what was going on there. But, you know, it would break my heart every time I went to the grocery store and there's like this rule of paper towel and, you know, disinfectant to do the conveyor belt before every single person that's going. And I'm like, OK, OK, yeah, everybody's got to get clean. Everybody's got to make sure nobody's touching anything.

But it was just like, you have this gulp moment of like, where's this all going? And I actually have a lot of, this is a little bit of a segue. I get a lot of anxiety on watching, I don't watch it anymore, but I did watch it at one point, or saw a few episodes of Hell's Kitchen. And I get anxiety when they're done cooking and they've got to clean the kitchen.

and they pull out all these rolls of paper towel to make everything super sterile. And I understand the process and I get it. Like I know what's going on and I know more about like the world of chefs now, you know, in this day and age and what the, you know, they leave their kitchen pristine, but I'm like, my God, I think you just went through like, I don't know how many rolls of paper towel. Like it's, actually stresses me out.

Yeah, it's one of those things where it has a place for sure. know, certain things need ways, we need to sterilize things, we need to, yeah, have things be safe. But at the same time, we bring that mindset into our own homes. And when the threat is gone, or what have you, it's just like we have a difficulty shaking that mindset. So, yeah, I'd love to spend some time on that connection to sustainable living, because what you were just talking about with

the subscription and buying more than we need. just, it really does come from an emotional place, especially like having gone through the pandemic, but it brings a lot of emotional weight with it too, like stress and decision fatigue and the sense that like all of these things are piling up faster than we can deal with them. And I know that organization is not just about tidiness, it's about, you know, awareness of what you already have and.

speaker-0 (34:43.246)
creating space and habits that feel more intentional. So, I mean, you did just describe why you think people accumulate so much stuff in that way, but you know, what patterns did you see when clients were forgetting things that they already owned or, you know, how do we shift that?

Yeah, well, clutter is often just delayed decision making and it leads us to buying more because we feel overwhelmed when we have too much stuff. Example, both my kids, I give them a capsule wardrobe. They, they're boys. They're not the same as girls. They don't want every brand new thing, you know, out there and like, look, that's, it is what it is. I...

I don't even understand the world of having a girl. I only know myself. There you go. But I've said to both of them, like, you need a capsule wardrobe, you need 10 outfits, and then you need something for nice occasions. You need your stuff for the gym, you need your stuff for every day and nice occasions. And my younger son likes to collect things. He likes to bring things in bed with him. He is 13, so hopefully he doesn't hear this.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (35:58.446)
I always find like random things that he'll just start playing with and then fall asleep with, you know, he accumulates things. But a few months ago, I said to him, look, you've got so many things you've grown out of, let's scale back, let's get rid of stuff. And my goodness, the stuff that we donated, there was two garbage bags full of clothes. And it had just been, he'd gone through a growth spurt. So it wasn't something that we could have, he was kind of in between sizes and he's now out of it. So was so happy.

We've lined everything up, his closet's reorganized and he feels so much better. Like he just has one load of laundry to do. He feels lighter. He knows where things are. And I think this is the biggest thing that I've seen in so many homes that I've worked in is when I find five apple cider vinegars. It's because when you don't know where anything is, you go, well, I'm too overwhelmed to go look. So I'm just, cause that's a mess and I don't want to go in the pantry. So.

I'll just buy one or I'll be at the store and I'll just buy one because I don't, can't remember. Right. And that's what a lot of people do. They can't remember because they have no organization back home. Right. They have no system. And that's really overwhelming. And that's like mental clutter. One of the things that I learned on my organizing journey is that every single thing you own depends on you. And it's talking to you on a daily basis. It's saying, Hey,

I'm over here. You're going to wear me. You're going to sell me. You're going to do something with me. What are you going to do? And you go, oh gosh, leave me alone. I'm going to walk away from that. I can't right now. Okay. I'll deal with that later. I'll sell it. I'll sell it. Oh, but so-and-so gave that to me. I can't sell it. And we have so much emotional attachment to things. So it's so difficult to just go, I'm going to sell that. I'm going to donate that. Then you find yourself pushing it to the side and you do nothing with it.

And then you accumulate more things that you do nothing with. And all these things in your home are depending on you. And it's a really dangerous place to be because if you have people depending on you, like children or pets or something, that's a lot to begin with. We also have to take care of ourselves. So adding books and papers and old scarves and socks with holes in it that depend on you is...

speaker-1 (38:24.472)
too much for anybody to handle in this day and age. I feel like that's where people get stuck.

That's so interesting. I'm just as you're talking, I'm looking around my desk.

What's talking to me? What's calling my name?

What?

boy, we used to hold those socks in it and I just looked at my mending pile like.

speaker-1 (38:41.646)
Yeah. Am I doing anything with that pile? Yeah. It's interesting.

I have intentions to do something with that file, but no, I take your point because we get so overwhelmed by stuff and that weirdly leads us to buy more stuff.

Yes, yes it does because we want to feel better about it and you know this is the thing that I would always say like there's like emotional attachment or there's money attachment right so we feel like somehow we're emotionally attached or somehow it costs us money right so when we put those things aside half the things we're not even using and that's why we buy more stuff because we're like we know we have this thing but like actually I don't know if I'm gonna wear that anymore so I'm gonna buy a new one.

And you're like, okay, what happened to the one in one out rule? Like it doesn't exist because we think in our minds, especially as women, we're like, I might wear that on a yacht one day when I'm in St. Barts. And you're like, no, I actually never wore that scarf, that silk scarf that I thought I was going to wrap around my head on a yacht one day. And it's sitting there doing nothing. Like it's.

these, you know, we have these imaginations and we think that we're going to use things or we feel guilty about not using them. That's the bigger issue. And when we feel guilty, you know, you feel guilty. You just, you don't want to, you get, you get paralyzed, right? You're like, I can't do that. But let me tell you, when you get rid of stuff, weight that comes with it, like, and then when you start to live with less, it's like,

speaker-1 (40:16.236)
You can move in your house. Everything has a home. You feel, I can tidy up because this thing has a spot. You know when you can't tidy up because now you can't put your laundry away because your closet's barfing on you? You're like, there's no room. So where am going to put it? That's when you know you've gotten to the point. Something's got to go. And you've got to go, OK, what's my system?

Mm-hmm.

speaker-1 (40:40.162)
Have I not worn this in a year or so it's got to go? Did I not wear this in a season? Can I give it to somebody so I can feel better about not throwing it away or giving it away? You you got to find a way, you know, and this is why hiring a professional organizer is great because they really help you through these processes. this product based business, this dish towel brand for me was like being able to

I can't get into everybody's home in Canada, but being able to offer a solution for one spot in your home to stay organized and sustainable for me was like, okay, I can do this. I can create this and people don't need me. There's one fold. Just make sure you get 12 of them, redo the drawer. That's a shameless plug. you know, it's redo the drawer. It all has one fold. You're not trying to, like there's, you're taking the guesswork out of it. It just makes you feel better in that one spot.

And if I can do that for like one spot for every home, I feel good. I can't be everywhere, but.

And it's like undercover sustainable living. it's a little, I like, I appreciate these little small shifts into like, okay, so here's an eco-friendly product that will fit in your drawer. It's all the same thing. Now this thing is better. And I feel like that provides folks with a foundation to, okay, so what's the next thing? Yeah. Yeah. So I appreciate you making that connection between like, not minimalism, but

So it'll do with minimalism and air quotes and sustainable living because I do think they go together both what's our relationship to our current stuff and our future stuff.

speaker-1 (42:11.32)
Yeah, and at the end of the day, we can't bring any of this stuff with us. I had some friends that live in California and went through the wildfires. when leaving, my one friend, when she had to leave her home, and she was lucky enough, she still had a home when she came back. But when it was time to go, she said it was grabbing, she had to grab stuff to donate. They said, if you can, if you have time, get stuff that you can donate.

And she packed one bag for herself and a bunch of stuff for other people, like packed her car. And she said it was the easiest decision she ever made. it's like, you know, knowing that we could lose everything in a minute, you know, or that we're going to, you know, it's impermanence. We're all not going to be here forever. Being so, you know, attached to things makes it harder for us to let go of them. And that's why we consume so much.

because we feel like we need things. We need to be surrounded by things to make us feel good. And, you I'm not going to dive into that, but I think that, you know, that's where it comes from. And, or we get these emotional attachments to when people give us stuff. And, you know, it's come to the time where it's like, when someone gives you a gift you don't like, don't let it sit there. Give it to somebody else. I, is another thing I had so many clients who have their

great, great, great grandparents China. And so they needed a whole big shelf for it. And they're like, okay, I need to make sure that's got a space. And I'm like, so do you use this? Do you want it displayed? Like, tell me what you want it to look like. And they're like, no, no, no, no, I don't, I don't even want it. I'm like, what are you gonna do with it? And it's like, I just need to keep it. And it's like, cause there's that emotional, like they were told this has been passed down for generations. And I'm like,

Well, you know what we should do then? We should pull it out and we should display it. it. Use it. You know, like wild conception. But this is a conversation starter. This is actually my great, great, great, great grandmother's teacup from, you know, 19, whatever. Like it's it is finding a way to utilize those things, you know, and if you want to keep them, that is, you know, if you really use what you have and otherwise it's serving no purpose for you.

speaker-0 (44:32.843)
Yeah

speaker-1 (44:37.41)
Like it's not serving, it's only just on your mind and weighing down.

It's just stuff. It's just stuff. It's just stuff. So I do love to end every episode with a segment I call One Small Shift. I'm going to put the chore. But basically, it's just what's one small thing that folks can start doing today to either cope with their stuff or be a little more eco-friendly? Maybe it's a mindset shift that helps people maintain these systems. But what would you recommend folks could start trying this week?

Yeah.

speaker-1 (44:52.77)
basically.

speaker-1 (45:11.822)
Something that I always say, when I was back in my organizing days and I was actually giving away a checklist on my Instagram page that I had when I was organizing, because I knew I couldn't see someone in Philadelphia or whoever was following me. I had a little program that was a 10 day program, and by program I mean checklist, nothing serious, but it's find 25 things a day.

for 10 days. And at the end of that 10 days, you'll be getting rid of 250 things. And you'd be surprised what you can find. So start in a room in your house. So say you start in your bedroom, go find 25 things. It could be anything. It could be an elastic. It could be a business card. It could be a sock with a hole. Anything you can find. Moving from room to room. And at the end of this, you'll have 250 things. And I always say, create a pile.

and take a picture of it at the end. And you'd be surprised what is in this pile. I actually did a whole Instagram story line on it where I did a different room every day at the house to show. It filled up my living room carpet at the end of it, 250 things. And it's wild because it's just, it's a simple way to start. It's a simple way to feel a bit lighter and not, know, because we always tell people, don't go tackling, don't go pulling apart your kitchen. That's just crazy.

start small, do a drawer, you know? The first thing I did when I started organizing is I did my baking cupboard. And I live downtown Toronto, so my baking cupboard is this big. For those who can't see me, it's two feet by one foot.

Five to six mason jars. Exactly.

speaker-1 (46:56.43)
And I started there and I pulled everything out, you know, and I did the whole process, but it's starting there and going, okay, I have a sense of completion. So I often say, do this simple little process of 250 things in 10 days. And if you miss a day, you start again. But it won't be that hard. How about just start with the 25 things a day and it's wild and get your whole family to participate because.

everybody's got 25 things they can part with a day, you'd be surprised. So it's just a small way of kind of just feeling a bit lighter and getting, you know, getting a bit organized. And we do it twice a year in our house.

I'm doing 25 things off my desk right now. I'm looking at two phones I need to recycle. I've got a bag of seashells. There's a lot of Post-it notes happening. I don't even know what they're for anymore, but yeah. I'm like, you know, I have intentions to do things with all of these things. This is my struggle with the use what you have is I'm like, well, I have to find a use for this. can't just, I can't toss it. know, it's only a single use. If I use it once, what else could I use the pack with this Post-it note for? And sometimes I have to be like Sarah.

seashells. love it.

speaker-0 (48:10.668)
It's okay to throw things away sometimes. this is part of that. This is the marriage of, you know, stuff and sustainable.

Well, and if you can have a relationship with stuff that's more sustainable, then that's even better. So if it's your relationship is with paper, then at least you can recycle it, So feeling at least having that better relationship, you know, it's a healthy relationship rather than a toxic one.

Right. Yeah.

speaker-0 (48:36.002)
Right, and relationships are always work. So this will always be a work in process. We will always be re-examining, shifting things as our lives change, as our circumstances change. And I love this quote, sustainability takes forever, and that's the point.

Yeah, wow, I haven't heard that one. And that is the truth, you know, it takes work. It's a practice.

shift over time and that's yeah that's all of it so

all of it. My mom always said to me when I was a kid, she said, if everyone did their part, we'd be in a place, a better place. So it's just being mindful and remembering that don't put it all in one bin. That's what stresses me out the most, people that have one bin.

This has been awesome and I appreciate this just like thoughtful and just really genuinely helpful conversation. And I just love how you bring together design and organization and sustainability in such a approachable way. So for listeners who want to learn more about Dish or Try the Towels, what's the best place to find you?

speaker-1 (49:48.48)
You can find us at dish.ca, so it's D-I-S-C-H, so a little bit of a twist, because of course, D-I-S-H was taken. And we're also on Instagram, dish.cal.

Great, and I'm going to link all of that in the show notes, obviously, for folks to try it out. And these are SRB approved. It's a legitimately fantastic product. And I'm so glad that we bumped into each other. Me too. Thank you again for everything, for being here, and for offering just all the small shifts that will make a big difference for us. Thank you.

It's my pleasure. Thank you, Sarah.

speaker-0 (50:27.234)
I really enjoyed that conversation with Sasha and I'll have to have her back on. I could talk endlessly with her about our relationship with stuff from beginning to end, but I hope it left you with a few ideas that you can put into practice right away. What I love so much about her approach is how much power there is in small, simple things and having the tools actually work for you. So creating these small shifts that most of us

use dozens of times a day. If you want to learn more about Dish or check out the towels or dive deeper into anything that we talked about today, again, you will find all of that waiting for you in the show notes. So until next time, start where you are, use what you have and live a little cleaner.

speaker-0 (51:16.194)
Thanks for tuning in to Sustainable in the Suburbs. Every small step adds up and I'm so glad we're doing this together. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow the show, share it with a friend and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can find me at sustainableinthesuburbs.com or at Sarah Robertson Barnes on all the things. Until next time, start where you are, use what you have and live a little greener.

This podcast is produced, mixed and edited by Cardinal Studio. For more information about how to start your own podcast, please visit www.cardinalstudio.co or email Mike at mikeatcardinalstudio.co. You can also find the details in the show notes.