Ep. 12 - The Masks We Wear, The Roots We Bury

🎙️ EPISODE 12 — “The Masks We Wear, The Roots We Bury”

In this incendiary and eye-opening episode of Three for the Founders, the trio wades into America’s murkiest waters—race, identity politics, and immigration policy—with no life vest and no filter. Buckle in as Antonio dares to ask, “What if we just gave the country back to white people?” It’s not a surrender—it’s a provocation. What would it really take for America to confront its foundational contradictions?

👀 What’s Inside:

• Media manipulation, political theatre, and the weaponization of identity in the age of Trump
• “Neowhites” and the strange phenomenon of people of color aligning with oppressive ideologies
• Black and Latino tensions, internalized racism, and the exhausting chase for proximity to whiteness
• Real talk about performative patriotism, assimilation, and the trauma of conditional belonging

🤔 Questions for the Audience:

• Have you ever caught yourself shrinking your identity to fit in?
• What do you gain—or lose—by trying to be seen as “one of the good ones”?
• Who benefits when communities of color turn on each other?

🧠 Takeaways:

• Silence is not neutrality—it’s complicity.
• Identity isn’t just personal—it’s political.
• Assimilation can be a survival tactic, but at what cost?

✅ Action Items:

• Reflect: Journal about a time you felt pressured to “perform” your race or hide it.
• Engage: Talk to a friend or loved one about how media narratives have shaped their political views.
• Challenge: The next time someone says they “don’t see race,” ask them why not?

💥 Expect fire, vulnerability, and maybe even a little guilt—but mostly, expect a real conversation that doesn’t flinch. Because on Three for the Founders, if it doesn’t make you uncomfortable, we’re not doing it right.

🎧 Tune in. Think deeply. Then do something.

📅 Airs Monday, August 4, 2025
🕒 69 minutes of uncomfortable truths, raw introspection, and bold questions

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Mmm Malcolm Jamal Warner.

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Oh, that hurt. That one hurt.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Oh man. And that's the thing about life, dude.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

You just We're brothers. We're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five. Alright, cut and print. Beautiful guys. Dino Mike. That it.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years. And now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Antonio, why do we call ourselves three for the founders?

SPEAKER_05 0:57

We are three for the founders because there are three of us, three being the magic number, and there are three founders of Five NX Fraternity Incorporated, of which we are all members. No idea I pledged the two of us in the spring of 1990. And uh there are three founders, uh A. Langston Taylor, F. Morris, and Charles I. Brown.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Big Brother.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

Um and so in taking that, we also three talk about the founders of the United States of America and what they meant, what they wrote, what they did, and what they said, and how that impacts us today. And so there are three of us for the founders.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Well stated. Love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

What's up, everybody? I'm John Augustine. I live in Los Angeles. I am one of the founders of Three for the Founders. I am a communications consultant, executive coach, musician, creator, all-around person obsessed with communicating. I believe that most of what separates humanity is misunderstanding. And so I'm obsessed with finding the words to bring us together. And that's one of the reasons why we're here today, is so that we can say the things that maybe we're afraid to say, except for among men, women, brothers, sisters who we trust. And I trust these brothers with my life, and I love being a part of this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Thank you. And I am LeBron James, otherwise known as the Math Man. I'm a mathematician, former math teacher, now math coach. I train teachers how to teach math to students of color around the country. I'm also a futurist, which means I study trends to figure out what we should do now to prepare for the future. Also known as Malcolm X Squared. So imagine Malcolm X, who was a math nerd, put those together, and that's me. And I'm supported here by my two fraternity brothers, Reinaldo Antonio Maccias and John Augustine. Go mob.

SPEAKER_05 2:58

Mob. Mob brother. I uh have never heard Malcolm X spear. That is amazing. Um, Reinaldo Antonio Macias here, teacher, learner, educator, historian. Um it fascinates me how we got from where we work to where we are. And the more I live and walk on this planet, the more I understand that, yes, the ancestors gave us an assignment, but I'm also going to be an ancestor. And so while I am fulfilling their wildest dreams, I need to dream for those who are to come after, and it's our responsibility to figure out how to exist in this space, in this time, and that's why we're here.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Love it, love it, my brothers.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Yes, hey, shout out Theo, Ozzie Osborne. Yes, Ozzy Osborne.

SPEAKER_06 4:08

Your son was a good class.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

I had Ozzy's son in my class and you roll. Now come Jamar Warner. That was me. That was the first time I saw myself on television.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Except for my Gordon Guard Trail, and I'm just gonna be a regular person.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

What happened? Gort Okay. Let me let me out.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Um there's a he wants a he wants a really expensive shirt, and Denise convinces him that she can make the shirt. And so she he buys the fabric and gives her$30, and then she makes him the sh- then it's all yeah, the pockets over here. So that was a Gordon Gar trail. I'm gonna be a regular person, is when he's failing out of school, and his dad is playing life, playing the game, literally the game of life, and he gives, he's like, Oh, you make this much money, and you make this much money. And he he's like, Are you gonna eat? And you need to pay rent because you won't be living here. And then he no doubt. He's like, groceries gonna cost you$400. He said, I can get by on peanut butter and cereal, takes back$200. So he ends up having gone through the whole month with$200, and he's like, See, I could do all this stuff being a regular person, and I have$200 left. He's like, You're gonna have a girlfriend? Yep. Walks out the room. So Theo thought he was gonna be a regular person. A regular broke. He was, he was regular broke.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Regular broke. Love it. Thanks to Dr. Huxtable ripping it out of his hands. You know, Malcolm Jamal Warner still giving us, even, you know, after his passing, still giving us good things to talk about. Because look, we've been afraid to talk about the Cosby show because, well, I don't know if we've been afraid, we just haven't talked about it because we just haven't talked about it. But here we are. How much did he raise us in the 80s? You know, how much was how much did we want to live in that cool house with the stairs of the cool grandparents, the grandpa, the trombone?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

I say I started to say his mama reminded me of my mom, but he he reminds me more of Antonio's mom.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Carolyn Webb, yes. Mama Carolyn, yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

The wisdom and the cool wisdom and the sheet open that that eye cut, they can look at you with their eyes. I'd like to write a dissertation, I can shake my head and write a dissertation just with this look. Yes, you don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

You don't, you don't smoke around with mama Carolyn, but no, you do not want to. You don't because she's hilarious.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Okay, you yeah, she's funny. Y'all don't want the smoke.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Um, you learned pretty quick.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

No, this was that that wasn't the um reason I sent y'all that text about art and artists, and do we have whatever? But Daniela and I were driving, and I believe I can fly. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

I believe I can touch the sky. Think about it every night and day.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

I'm gonna stop before I hit a note that I can't hit because we've seen that happen before.

SPEAKER_06 7:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:21

But my point was like, I'll listen to that if it's on, but I don't play R. Kelly, right? John, you brought up we're Theo and Malcolm Jamal Warner, but we don't talk about the Cosby show. Like, even in this conversation, I said he and his dad, not he and Bill Cosby.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

And I'm the one well, I said Dr. Huxtable.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

You said Dr. Huxtable. Like, we still not naming, you know. I'll name it. Although today, Cosby.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I do, Mr. Murphy. I would like to talk to you. Dude, me and my friend Jimmy.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Some of the things that you say in your show. No. Now that's Eddie Murphy doing Bill Cosby.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

But uh who of us didn't memorize the dentist? We all memorized the dentist.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

Today, yes, it came out that the Justice Department told, speaking, we were we were talking about sexual predators, Dr. Cosby. And today it came out that the Justice Department, Attorney General Pam Bondi, told President Donald Trump that his name is in the files that don't exist. Cut your mouth. In May, she told him three months ago, why you think he's having Obama AI arrested in his office? Which hurt my feelings.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Why you think he's and releasing the MLK FBI documents? And you see what Bernice King said?

SPEAKER_05 8:53

She said no, she said she posted a picture of her dad out right after they released the files, and they said, You know what the Epstein, you know what the files prove? My dad didn't know F Jeffrey Epstein.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

That's what's up.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

That's how you go.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

I was like, okay, girl, you do what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

And for for all my Republican black friends out there, no, sir. You mean a mess. We was not in them Epstein Files. No, we wasn't. Not my good presidents, not my good president. We're not in them Epstein Files.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

LeBron, I so like the the the improvisational wannabe wannabe improvisational comedian wants to yes and with you and join in this sketch, but I can't. I can't the only role I could play is like the white master or something in this book.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

There you go. And action.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Like, now Jay, now LeBron, I told you not stepping out of line there, pal.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

I thought you were gonna go into your uh your your Django, your your uh No, let's not be uh super vacous.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I just making up a word to sound southern.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

That's okay. That's what we're gonna be overall office. Talking about Obama Obama is sedatious. Really? The f is sedacious.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

That's that song, The Joker. That word doesn't exist, Stephen Miller. He had to have his lawyer look up to it for copyright laws. Oh my god. Sedacious, pompetus. Oh my god. So is this even gonna do Trump in? Is this does this have any chance Epstein files get released? You think it's gonna do him in? No, you're already faithful. Will it?

SPEAKER_05 10:51

I don't know if it will. I know that it is the closest thing to yes, because all of the people that already don't like him for whatever number of reasons can't imagine why don't like him. The people that supported him, like are the people who believed in Pizzagate, the people who believe that there's a cabal of child predators, and that he was going to free them. Him being in the files, him being linked to it, I mean, beyond him trying to date his daughter, is is going to splinter it. It won't get everybody, but it'll get enough. He only won by a certain percent, you know, like point something percent. He doesn't have a mandate, he doesn't have a thing, and I'm still functioning, sorry, I'm still operating inside the traditional structures. I feel like this is gonna be a knowledge minute of how the government is supposed to function, of how people are supposed to get elected.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Um John, I have a question for you. Yeah, yeah. Does the roots of a tree ever turn on the fruit it produces?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

The roots of a tree ever no.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

It doesn't. It will always support the fruit that it produces. So that's why nothing's gonna happen to Trump. The roots of this country is based on rape, murder, exploitation, sexual assault. That's how the country was founded. So he's just the fruit of that. So I don't think the roots are gonna turn on his fruit.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

That hurts so bad. That hurts so bad. I mean, you are basically your Malcolm X. I feel like you're Malcolm X like saying that the chicken's coming home to roost and you're about to get silenced by being Antonio. You're gonna have to go to Saudi Arabia on your Hajj because you're right. But it's what scares me about that, LeBron, is that it's so subconscious. Like there are, I don't know a single individual that would verbally consciously support pedophilia, rape, all the things that you just brought up.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

We're gonna cut this part, but yes, you do. No, we're not. It's called the Catholic Church. They've spent billions of dollars on people convicted of pedophilia, and that no one has turned away. They keep their open. No one says, I can't say their name. Like we people don't want to say R. Kelly, they don't want to say Bill Cosby, but millions of people still go to church every Sunday knowing thousands and thousands of boys have been raped. But not in church. Human beings are complex. That's how I sleep at night. We're complex.

SPEAKER_05 13:49

Are we? I think human beings are simple. I believe the stories they tell themselves in order to feel okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

I love now. Here we go. Keep that going. And we can slide that right on into immigration. I love that energy.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

It's not, it's not it's but it's that's what I'm saying. It's not complex. No, like it's not that I we don't we've we've sat here and talked about I don't it's not that I don't understand make America Great Again, it's that I don't believe Make America Great Again.

SPEAKER_06 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Gotcha. Right? It's not that those people don't believe that sexual abuse by the clergy has damaged thousands of children, right? Right? It's that those people believe, but that's not my church. That's not what I believe in. Or my experience, or even even even if it's an experience of somebody in their circle, right? If you've seen Spotlight, Spotlight is about the Boston Globe and how they uncovered the pedophilia scandal in Boston. Stars Mark Ruffalo and a whole host of really good actors, but they are having to interview people around people related to the victims, people related to the kids who've grown up. Okay. And there is a very definite, to your point, covering for the Catholic Church, covering for the priests, both by the church and by the families. Because they're embarrassed, right? And this will get into what does it really mean to be a man, because that's another topic that but they they the victim the the victimization of children in a sexual manner, the victimization of boys by men in a sexual manner, was so embarrassing and so shame-filling that they just swept it under the rug, that they just put it in, they they said that that didn't happen. And so when I say that human beings are simple, they believe the stories that they tell themselves in order to feel okay with what they want to be, in order for their comfort, right? To John's point about white supremacy and white people, he said several times we don't pay attention to this because we don't have to.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Gotcha. Now to clarify more, because I I love that explanation, when I say that people are complex, uh-huh, I was referring to they can hold two conflicting beliefs at the same time and exist. So someone can be racist and still have black and brown friends. That's what I mean by complex. So R. Kelly can be a great singer and a sex offender. A priest can be a great priest. Love is uh it's okay to love your parishioners, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

Just don't love your parishioners.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

That's what I'm saying. And so they can create, they can conduct a horrible act and yet still be a positive contributor to the community, and that's what's hard for people to understand. Like it's complex. We're not one thing or the other, we're all things. And when they things express themselves in very positive and very negative things from the same human being, it's hard for us to process. So that's why I just go back to ah, we're complex, we're many things at the same time. And I think that's part of this whole racism thing is when I say, ooh, I hate white people, I don't mean every single white person.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

But I'm a good one, LeBron. What do you mean? You don't have your necklace on, so we don't know that. You gotta have your necklace. I gotta have the Roy Wood bracelet. The Roy Wood Jr. Bracelet or yellow belt. No, what I think, LeBron, is is it requires intelligence to do that consciously. We're talking about people who maybe even did it subconsciously, because when yes, sir.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

Education or intelligence?

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_05 18:01

Intelligence. Okay. No, no, no, I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Because intelligence is a starting point. Then if you educate the intelligent, then it's even better. But my my entire point being you could do it subconsciously, for instance, a Catholic parishioner who it who nods their head and says, Yeah, we've done some pretty terrible things and it's pretty bad. But I really like this and I like the church and it's meaningful to me. And so it might not even be an intelligent thing as it is, it's more of a subconscious thing. And then what you're talking about, LeBron, is something that's very conscious. Like, all right, look, and it connects to the mythology of America that you talk about. When you when you want to perpetuate a myth that America's good, America's great, America's won, America's number one, America wins, everything we do. Then that's a very shallow way of being. It's very shallow, it's very shallow is the best word I can come up with. Superficial. Superficial versus let's get real about our past. And we are still great because these are the reasons, not because we're perfect. We've screwed up this, this, this. We're great because we wrestle, we're great because we tell the truth, we're great because we embrace the consequences of the heinous things we've done. Which we're not really embracing much, or because we haven't done a whole lot of truth in uh reconciliation. But I like what you're saying because uh to to be a good citizen, you've got to be able to embrace all of that. Like okay, immigration, were we gonna talk immigration? Because if we were, could we say immigration is complicated? No. Tell me why it's not complicated. Tell me why it is. When I'll I'll I'll take my my grand my great-grandparents who came in from Poland and Italy, as I've said a few times. The words on the Statue of Liberty, bring us your what are the words?

SPEAKER_05 19:53

Poor, you're tired, you're huddled, masses yearning to breathe free.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

We all know that if I'm gonna use my grandparents, who were the children of those immigrants, they both of my grandfathers didn't graduate high school. They worked, you know, during the depression. My one grandfather hitchhiked all the way from Connecticut to Arizona and back again looking for work. They they did very well, they bought homes in very nice areas in the suburbs of New York and Connecticut, places that earned value over time. They had the American dream, as it were, and because the opportunity back in 1930, 1940, 1950 for white folks, for those immigrants, for European immigrants. Thanks for that clarification. Uh-huh. It was essentially you show up, you work hard, things are gonna go well for you. That was the American dream. Increasingly so, that's becoming more and more of a problem. We know race is in the middle of this, but for all people in 2025, America's not an easy place to make a living. We're seeing a big disparity between the rich and the poor, middle class disappearing. We can talk about all like I'm not necessarily talking about the racial element of this, just the purely economic reality of life in 2025 is very different from life in 1945, 1955, as far as the opportunities we have economically. Math man, you could probably back me up on this. And what the reason I'm saying is this there's a scarcity mindset from Americans going, yo, 100 years ago, yeah, come on, immigrants, come on, tired, weak, huddled masses. We got room for you. We need you to work, you're gonna make us great, you're gonna be fine, we're gonna be fine. Now there's a scarcity mindset, like, no, I can barely feed my own family on what I got. I don't need anyone else coming here and taking my job. That's when I say it's complicated. I think it's become less of a come on in, we got room for you. The American dream is alive, and now it's like we don't have room for you. The American dream is not what don't we say? Now, John, I don't think.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

No, no, go ahead. No, you go.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I'll I'll go because I know you're gonna come out the the the dugout in the ninth inning and strike much.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

He's on deck, he's swinging right now.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

I'll pitch the first two innings and you come and just clean this shit up for me. Yeah, LeBron, just get on Satchel's second base.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Vote the bases up for Antonio.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

John, you said what you said, I completely agree with. You said it in the context of one, there's ample opportunity in the 40s and 50s. Come on in, immigrants, we have space for you. 2025, there's economic hardship, things are tougher. We don't have time or space for immigrants. We don't have time and space for people who are not white. Because aren't we telling the South African white people, come on in. We stopped everybody else, but y'all come in. ICE has not picked up any white people. No Europeans have been picked up in droves. So the idea is there's always space in America for more white people. What they're saying is there's not, we don't want any more space for anyone else because our numbers are shrinking. And so in the 40s and 50s, we needed more white people because our numbers were low. And they need more white people now. So that's the only caveat I would add to what you said.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I wonder if there was a way to quantify this is a total thought experiment. No, like if there were poor white people coming. Yes. The doors wide open. How would we respond to them? Doors wide open. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:24

The first, the first, the first the first one.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

My favorite part of this is you didn't hit the microphone. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Even though you wanted to. The first person who was enslaved for life in the United States was a man named John Punch. He was enslaved, but for life was questionable. He and two white indentured servants, poor white people, decided they were gonna run away. Indentured servitude being somebody paid for your ticket to the United States, you had to work for seven years, they got to treat you however the fuck they wanted. Enslaved people, indentured servants, kicking it, whatever. So John Punch, black man, and these two white people ran away. This is 1640. Ran away. The white people had seven more years added to their indenture. John Punch was sentenced to enslavement for life because they had robbed their patrons of their service. Your question was immigration.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Quick clarification. No.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Or I don't know how long. I'll be very clear. I don't know how long John he was enslaved for. Yeah, but once he got caught, we knew what happened after that. Right. Okay. Just clarifying. And so going back to the question was is immigration simple? Or is what was the question?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, is immigration complex? I thought it was complex, you said it's not. And I said no.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

Immigration has always been about keeping people out and keeping people and and and letting in who you want to. We've talked a couple of times about the Naturalization Act of 1790 and the Naturalization Act of 1795. We said you had to be white and a person of good character. And so from the beginning of the United States as a political entity, immigration has been about keeping non-white people out and letting in white people. You can go from the seventh naturalization acts of 1790 and 1795 to the Chinese Exclusion Act, the only law written specifically to keep out a group of people who are not white. Then you go to the immigration laws in the 1920s, right? And I'm passing over the insular cases that happened after the Spanish-American War, which was about Cuban independence, in which the United States gained Cuba and the Philippines. And so the insular cases were about whether or not the people who were in those conquered territories that the United States now controlled were going to be allowed to be United States citizens. See Puerto Rico. Yes. And so you have the immigration laws that were written in the 1920s, and we've already talked about the law that was written in the 1929 when we wanted Mexican labor to come to the United States, but then leave the United States and not stay. And so the Bracero program, right? No, the Bracero program happened during the World War II. Oh, but it was very similar to the Braceto program. Okay. Right. Um, and so when I say that immigration, immigration law is not complex, it's not complex. It's always been written in the United States to keep out people who are not white and to include people who are.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Okay, then I have a question for you. So why do the Chinese and Indian populations have an easier time immigrating into the United States legally than some than folks from Mexico? Is it sure is it purely a matter of money?

SPEAKER_05 27:32

No. The same reason that Mexicans had an easier time coming during the Braceto program.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Uh-huh. There are laws in place now that favor India and China over Mexico.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

No. What labor does the United States need right now? If you talk about Indians and Chinese coming to the United States, you're talking about people on H1B visas. You're talking about people who are doing engineering, who are doing computer coding, who are PhD candidates that have disappeared. Come home now. You're talking about what labor group does the United States need now? So it's moved from Mexico or Central America to East Asia.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

But why do MAGA people say that these are the people taking our jobs? I mean, and over and over again. And this is you. Exactly. Say what? Who's taking their jobs?

SPEAKER_05 28:19

Which jobs? When you say these are the people taking our jobs, what jobs are they talking about?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Indian, Chinese, engineering, software development, software, all that the I hear from the MAGA crew basically these are the people taking our jobs. And I think these are the people qualified to write software to become doctors or become two reasons.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

One, an assumption and that that is their job. Mm-hmm. First privilege. Two, a fear that they're going to have to work to get that job. Right. Mm-hmm. Right? We came up with a whole fictitious job interview thing. Yeah. And I said, I think it was LeBron's, but I said, what if all five people were white? What's your excuse for not getting the job then? Because only one person is getting the job. There you go. And it was just, I just didn't get the job. So they are not, they are not taking our jobs. Right. Right. The only time anybody right now says Jesus outside of church is the person doing agricultural work that white Americans don't want to do.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

There you go. And that was what I find so interesting about this immigration thing, is white people want more white people in America. They only want people of color to serve economic interests. So they know white people, you can't get enough white people in here to do laborist jobs for low wages. And you can't find enough white people to come in and do STEM and coding. So there's certain industries the country depends on where white people, one, there's not enough white people, two, there's not enough educated white people, three, there's not enough hardworking American white people for these jobs. So all these people in these four F-150s with the flags, jump out the truck, go pick some fruit and vegetables for your country at the same wage.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Or learn coding or learn how to uh or take care of the city.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Because my thing is this coding, you have to be proficient, first of all, in mathematics. So small plug to education. The highest performing students in mathematics are Asian students, immigrant students, in math, but also in ELA. You got immigrant agents outperforming white people in ELA as well. ELA stands for English Language Arts. Thank you. Reading and writing. I knew that one, so I wanted to. I knew that was in your in your woodhouse. So, Antonio, because there's a cherry picking of immigration, you've talked about several ways in which the government has sanctioned or created policy or laws around that. What is what's the implication currently, in your opinion, about why we're having such a backlash on people of color in immigration? Knowing we need them to keep this economy running. Because if we don't take them, Canada's like, we'll take them all, because they help our GDP.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Because they believe the myth. Tell me, give me the myth.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

I love when we get him exasperated before the one-hour mark.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

No, no, it wasn't that that that was that that wasn't an exasperation. That was a that was a stop because there's storytelling time. The myth is that uh the pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. They peacefully had Thanksgiving with indigenous folk, and then uh we fought a war against Big Bad England because the king was tyrannical and he expected colonists to participate in the economic uh life of the empire, but that was too much, and he taxed RT. There's a constant refrain about how, up by your bootstraps, about how this group of founding fathers who did some really, really good things and were really, really questionable people, or as you said, complex human beings, I think they were very simple. Yeah, they were very self-interested. Thanks. And whatever served their self-interest is what they believed in, and they happen to be poetic about it, right? Which makes them just like everybody else. And so the myth that is being perpetuated, the story that's being told, the rewritten language around the United States, is that we the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, are actually doing that for all the people. Which is why I said they should have just said, we the white people, in order to form, like if you're gonna be honest about it, speak on it, right? And so I pulled out the Edmund S. Morgan American Slavery, American Freedom, because his premise is that they could not have built the United States of America without slavery, they could not have liberated themselves as a colony without enslaving others. Couldn't. And that reality is the truth, right? When when you watch boxing, they say the tale of the tape. Yes, that is the tale of the tape, but the story that's told forgets the second half. The myth that white folks were arguing about when Colin Kaepernick took a knee is that everyone is treated equally, that we are a meritocracy, that we are a republic, when the actions taken by the government at every step, and please don't throw Abraham Lincoln at me. Right? Yeah, he said, I'm not now, nor have I ever been for the equality of the races. He didn't fight the Civil War or lead the United States because he wanted to help black people. He said, Slavery is wrong, and I feel like we're doing something bad for us, which is something that we haven't talked about, how white supremacy damages white people.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Oh, that's coming. We've touched on it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

We've touched on it, but we haven't talked about it. But he started that because he was like, I don't want this country to dissolve. Frederick Douglass said, maybe you should think about the black people. Well, he said, No, no, no. I'm about this country not dissolving. Two years in, he realized that in order for the country to survive, he would have to make the civil war about black folk. And it helped him militarily because that's when he signed the emancipation process.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

It gave him a cause that they could rally around. Yes? There you go.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

No, it gave him a military and it weakened the South. Got it. It didn't even give him a cause. The Emancipation Proclamation says that all people who are enslaved in states currently in rebellion against the government of the United States are here and thereby freed. There were four states that did not go to the South and did not secede, where slavery remained legal for the remainder of the Civil War until the Thirteenth Amendment was signed.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Damn. Well, I got to go to the case. Thank you. Now, Antonio, I need you to go back because you you started with a great question that I would really like us to dive into in terms of the language they used in the Constitution.

SPEAKER_05 35:39

You were saying that if they had perhaps if Jefferson had just included the word white?

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Yes. Speak on that for us, please.

SPEAKER_05 35:47

I just think it would have been more honest. My question was: should Jefferson have just included the word white in the Declaration of Independence? We hold these truths to be self-evident that all white men are created equal, that they're endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and chief among these were life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. For white men. Thank you. I think he should have just put white in there.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

John, how would you feel now if you got up and you said the Pledge of Allegiance and all that, and you read the Constitution and it said white men, like in bold only. Like F everybody else. This is for white men.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

A Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the white republic for which it stands. One white nation under God. Under white God, don't forget. Under white. Oh, obviously, in my current person, it would be a terrible problem. But if I had been brainwashed to believe that that's just was part of us then and conditioned to think that was normal, I would probably feel a different way about it. But going back to the question, Antonio, I think that you posing this it makes me wonder, not one or two things, but the first thing is did he leave it out on purpose? Because he could envision a future in which it wasn't just white men. Is that even possible?

SPEAKER_03 37:01

I would say no. No, no. He saw where the train was going and he was like, we're gonna keep it on this track right here.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Back to the Thomas Jefferson thing. So because I asked, could he have left it out on purpose? Cause he because he actually did envision a multicultural America. You guys say emphatically no. And that to me A multicultural America?

SPEAKER_05 37:19

No. I don't I don't believe so.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Or at least an America where more than white men were in charge, perhaps. I don't believe so. He had a multicultural America in that he enslaved people and he was looking around at many cultures who were subservient to him by by the laws of the land currently. So very unlikely that he left out the word white on purpose. But if he had put it in there, if they had put it in there, because we do know that they thought through every single syllable when they wrote that. Yes, they did. If it were in there, we'd be a lot more like South Africa. And Trevor Noah talks about this: how the racism in South Africa is easier to fight and to face because it's clear and it's in your face. You're black, you're colored, you're white. Black people here, colored people there, white people here, it's in the laws. Whereas in America, it was in our face. Little by little, it's become less in our face. Depending on where you live in the country, it's less in your face. So it's the old the devil you know versus the devil you don't know.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

I think they could have put the word white in there. I think they didn't because, as my dad would say, the constitution was written at the white place at the white time. So it was already this man.

SPEAKER_05 38:32

Dude, can I every single micro?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

How many microphones does your dad have? Because he has dropped every single. Does he just keep dropping the same mic and you keep picking up?

SPEAKER_05 38:43

The constitution was written at the white white place at the white time. Wow. Oh my God. I need a I need a moment. I need a pause.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Because it's not Elmer Fudd saying to white poise at the white time. It's uh Papa James.

SPEAKER_06 39:02

No, Papa James doesn't have a speech impediment.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

At the white time. Um don't woke them. Let them slip. Let them sleep, baby.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Oh my God. I got, did I tell y'all I got maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Um you know Breitbart.com.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

It's a white wing website.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Oh written at the white place of the white time. A white wing website.

SPEAKER_05 39:27

And uh they were trying to do a piece on the the NAIS, yeah, the NAIS People of Color Conference. And I I left to go to a uh diversity, equity, and inclusion conference uh in San Francisco. And when I took off, everything was fine. And when I landed, I had like 17 messages. Uh oh. And one of them was my middle school principal. He's like, hey, give me a call as soon as you get this.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

What was that about?

SPEAKER_05 39:54

So I I exactly I called him and he's like, hey, are you sitting down?

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Uh-oh. Well, that's not a good way to start the conversation.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

I said, I can. Should I order a beer? He's like, it's not a bad idea. So Breitbard.com had done an article about this conference, this other conference that I had been a part of, and they had name-checked me specifically and individually. Oh. Do you remember this? Uh-huh. Because I had written on the board is the Constitution an aspirational document or a white supremacist document? Question mark. Can it be both at the same time? Question mark. Because it was a question that I asked my students, eighth graders, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:41

You asked your students that question? For sure. Have you met Antonio LeBron? Have you met Antonio?

SPEAKER_00 40:49

I told you. I'm ready. Sign me up.

SPEAKER_05 40:53

And so I I had asked that question. Anyway, that you you all just reminded me of that, like the white place at the white time. Like that is finish the story though.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

They quoted you. So you were in an article. You were featured in a bright article. I had posted, I had posted on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_05 41:10

Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. I had posted on my Instagram. This is one of the questions that we wrestle with all the time. Yeah. Because we need to understand that, uh, and it goes back to our the beginning of our conversation where we talked about R. Kelly or we talked about Bill Cosby, and you know. Um, but if you have somebody who's done something good and positive for society, and you have somebody who's done something destructive and negative to society, which one of those in the balance of history is more important? Right? Oh, that's a heavy question. Was Thomas Jefferson a great man? Is the Constitution all that it's cracked up to be as we watch these white people destroy it in service of white supremacy? Right? Um, and so the the reason I asked the question, right? Should he insert in white? Should James Madison, right? I call him Big Daddy James. Yes. He's the one who took all the notes and put it all together and was like, all right, here's what we've sort of figured out at this constitutional convention. Here you go.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I like how James Madison is from Brooklyn now. I know I love it. Hey, hey, hey, look.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

New Amsterdam. I am a wannabe New Yorker. I know this. I love LA. Listen, I love you. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Wannabe. I get it. It's the best accent to be mad in and to make a very direct point with. Right.

SPEAKER_05 42:51

But um that said, had they been honest or to your point, John, cognitively reflective. Because they they weren't they weren't confused about what they meant. The confusion comes, and and these were some of the other questions that we had, right? Who's right? The people who are trying to do what they meant, or the people who are reading the words that they wrote on paper. Like, are we all the three of us and and the people that we talk about and talk to delusional because we're saying, Well, this is what they wrote, so this is what I'm gonna go by, or is it the people who are saying, Well, this is what they meant? Because I am convinced that they all meant white people, and it's specific white cisgendered men, yeah. They were not considering white cisgendered women, they were not considering trans folk at all, yeah, they were not considering the Enslaved black people. They were not considering the colonized and genocided indigenous folk. They were not considering the Asian folk that they would encounter. They were not considering the Latino folk that they would colonize, steal, invite in, kick out. All of those things are the ex are the expression of what they meant, but not what they wrote. And so if they had put the word white in there, it would have been more honest and clear.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

But it would have been redundant. Now that you're saying this, I'm envisioning the as they're writing these documents. Fair.

SPEAKER_05 44:45

Might have been redundant. That is totally fair.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

That's fair. And here's what I'm thinking. If I'm, let's say, Thomas Jefferson, I'm thinking, all right, I'm writing this document. How is it going to go out and be how's it going to be publicized? What's the next thing? Once we ratify, sign, and agree, okay, now copies are going to be made of this. What's going to happen to those copies? It's going to go on a horseback somewhere to a town center somewhere, Philadelphia, newspapers, New York, all the different places, newspapers, and it's going to be read by whom? Literate people. In the late 1700s, black folks, indigenous people, people, brown people were not allowed to learn how to read. So he was literally writing for a white audience. He probably could not have fathomed a Frederick Douglass in just a few short years who would teach himself how to read. So I would say that it would have been redundant. It would have been, yeah, it's so. Complex, John. Sure, why did them up? Yes. Yes. So the we wouldn't need Supreme Court justices if the law was obvious. If you just go, if you do this, you broke the law, this is your sentence. Because there's nuance, there's complexity, there's all these things. So they have to interpret the laws constantly based on reality. And LeBron, something you said in an earlier episode is let's deal with what is. What is? What is real? And we have to take the Constitution in that way. We have to take these men, these men were racist. These men enslaved people. These men were, what was it, well fed, well bred, well wed. What was the term?

SPEAKER_05 46:36

To them again. Well fed, well read. Well bred. Well wed.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

There you go. George Washington, you mentioned last time that Martha was the money in that relationship. And so we have to take what was put down and not be purists about it and go and go literal. We have to interpret it for the modern times. It's the same thing I feel about the Bible. And we're going to have a religion episode soon, and I'm going to talk a lot in this episode. But one thing I have a problem with is people who are like, well, I just believe the Bible. I just go with them. I'm like, oh, really? So I'm assuming your wife doesn't talk at church then because the Bible says that they should be quiet. I'm assuming you tell your wife to cover her head when she prays, because the Bible says that too. And they say, oh, no, of course. I mean, there's certain cultural reality since the Bible was written. Exactly. So we have the right to interpret based on modern reality, based on what is now what's good for us. So what are we going to decide to do? And what when I when we go back to what did the constitution say and what did they mean? Well, what it says is undeniable because it's written down. This is what it says. Those are the actual words. What it means, that's where we come in. And that's where we hate about the one-dimensional, let's go back and make America great again, as if something really good happened 50 years ago, and we all know that it was good for white people 50 years ago, whenever that was. But it means nothing to those who wasn't good for. So we have to make it meaningful. And I do think it comes around to this immigration thing where it's like, what did immigration mean then? What did these laws mean then? It means something totally different now. We have to deal with what is. And what you said earlier, LeBron, what is? We need immigrants for our crops. We need immigrants for always needed immigrants.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Always needed immigrants.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

So what do they think they're accomplishing with these raids and kidnapping? And what is the practical outcome they expect to see? If it goes well.

SPEAKER_03 48:33

They're making America white, so they need to around and find out. Antonio has a great suggestion for what we should do. Go on, tell them what we should do, Antonio. Should we just give the country back to white folk?

SPEAKER_00 48:45

There it is.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

No NFL, no NBA. If this is what they meant and this is what they wanted, give me my 40 acres and a mule plus compound interest. I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

I'll bounce. White people still gonna be white people, man. So I think why don't we, like you said, just give them back to country. White people, you can have the country back. What would that look like if we just said, you know what? We packing up our shit. We did our time. Here's my bill. It's$112 trillion, no tip included. We're gonna take our stuff back. No component. Y'all can just have this. What would white people do? I'm curious. Let's pontificate on this one.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Let's pontificate. Give it back to us as if it's not ours to begin with, but you saying stop the struggle?

SPEAKER_05 49:38

No, I'm out. I got places to go. Okay. I still haven't been to Japan. I don't need to live here. There's a level of stress that can be being a person of color in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Speak on it, as LeBron would say.

SPEAKER_05 49:55

I simply don't need. It's actually very simple. What would happen if we just said, okay, cool, they met white, you could have it. Give me a million dollars for my house. I'm I'm gonna go start a LeBron. Yep. John will call you. We got FaceTime, it's all good. You can stay. I assume that because black and Latino cultures have always had to welcome others, right, as have indigenous uh that you can definitely come in a visit, right? You get a visa. I don't know if you're gonna be able to do it I can come here.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Is there a test at the border? Can you clap on beats two and four? That's the only test. Can you clap on one and three? You cannot come in.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

That's the test. You're safe, John. There is a piece of it where, and this is how white supremacy infects white people. Like Stephen Miller, I honestly believe, uh wants a white nation. Because in his head, he believes that that will be a nation with no strife and everything will be roses and macaroni and cheese, without understanding that white people were fighting themselves for years in Europe before they ever met anybody. Thank you. As were native folks, as were African folks, right? There's a reason that, you know, when the colonial lines were drawn in Africa and they put different groups of people together, there is after liberation, still infighting between those groups. And so to give into that and say, just give them the country back. I'm gonna let them figure out what they have to do about the indigenous from whom they stole the land and about the Africans who they have to pay to have built the shit that they did. And I'm talking about the architectural drawings as well as the physical labor. No doubt. I don't know that you'd be able to divide it up, but I do know that I would be willing to give all of those white people who wanted that.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

I'm with you. Black and Latino people, Asian people, H1Bs, look, we just gonna leave, y'all. We're just gonna go. We're gonna go back to we'll go to Mexico, we'll go to uh some countries in Africa, we'll go to Japan, China, we'll go, we'll even do Canada, we'll hang out with Canada. But y'all, white people, can just have America back. Love white people, you figure out how to code. White people, you pick the fruits, white people, you do the construction. White people, you just have your way, whatever you want, and just make it all white. Raise your own kids. Raise your own kids. How about that? How about and then only listen to your own music. Can't listen to our music no more. Just listen to your own music.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

LeBron, now, see, now you're taking us one bridge too far. You know how you know how bad the Grammys are gonna be? It's just gonna be the country music awards six times. Do you know how bad the NBA is gonna be? Do you know how does the word set shot ring a bell? That's gonna be your NBA. Oh god, yeah, it's gonna be back to Jerry West.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

This year we have the NBA layup contest.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Listen, you want to talk about immigrants? How how much has Eastern Europe you know been good to the NBA? Man. Yeah. The white immigrants. Yep. Luca Don Chicks. Oh my God. You know how bad. You know how you know how undelicious all the food's gonna become? John, how long before you think Do you know? I'm gonna have to wear tight golf pants and a polo shirt and tuck it in with a belt with the master's logo on it. No signal. You'll be in Costco like where's my Ford F-150?

SPEAKER_02 53:51

There's so many of them. I can't find mine.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Oh no. Y'all have to go to with it. Is it Sam's Club that's down with them or I forget which one is down? Walmart, yeah. Y'all be in Walmart. I'm just wondering how long would white people last? How many years or months would they last without people of color in America?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

What do you all say to Mexican Americans for Trump? Folks who immigrated here from Mexico, legally or illegally, and then managed to be gain their own. Now they're pro-Trump?

SPEAKER_05 54:22

That they're simple.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah, I know several. They're simple.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

It's a sellout. They're sellouts.

SPEAKER_05 54:34

See, and but I'm gonna go with they're the Catholics who don't worry about I'm gonna go with their right.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Isn't it? I got mine, I don't want someone taking it from me. How'd you get it?

SPEAKER_05 54:45

Exactly. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. They made it here. They're white adjacent. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I know, yeah. I know some of the most rabidly supportive of Trump folks who are Mexican who came here either through the Recedo program or came here fleeing a desperate situation, were did not, you know, and then naturalized later who feel like, shut the door behind us, y'all, shut the door behind us because we got in. We don't want more of the.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

But there's a whole and there's a whole piece of that, right, where um you'll have educated black folk who live in Baldwin Hills or Lamert Park who look at and they're the first one to say, oh that's ghetto. Right? There's also a piece of it where they feel that, and this is here we go, white supremacy and being whitey Jason, that they are being reflected upon in a negative way. And so their response to that, I I don't use the term sellout anymore, LeBron. And I just that's just me. But they they feel like they're being reflected upon in a negative way.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

That's not us, those aren't our people.

SPEAKER_05 55:54

Those that's not me. And so get those people out of here. That's not me, and so stop them from coming. That's not me, and so I'm voting for Trump.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

That's a hard one as well.

SPEAKER_05 56:06

You've had a number of those people, Latinos for Trump, who have turned around and said, Oh, but I didn't think he was gonna take her. Oh, but I didn't think my primo, oh, my nieto is is a good kid and he's in school and he's a citizen without understanding that the racism undergirding all of this is the problem. Yeah. So what do I say to them? I say, Lo siento, sorry, sorry. Yeah, I just I'm sorry you don't understand how you're playing into it. And this is where it's not conservative versus liberal politics. This is right, because a lot of the Latinos that we're talking about are also Catholicos, and so they are into that conservative mindset of the church where right you can't be gay, women have a place, um, it's very patriarchal, like El Padre is the person who tells you what to do. And then you combine that with the uh other piece about I've got mine and you're reflecting bad on me. So when I say that people are simple, I understand what you're saying about them being complex. I would still argue that people would serve their best interest.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_05 57:27

You brought right you, but John, you brought up uh like a lot of uh people who voted for Trump would argue that they're not racist, but they voted for their own self-interest. And my question to you then was which part of their self-interest did they vote for? They voted for the white part, they voted for the piece that was going to speak to them and make them feel better. They're simple.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

And the part we don't talk about much. There you go. And maybe we'll get to it in another episode. Go ahead, LeBron. But I realized that for a lot of black people who are Trump supporters, Latino people who are Trump supporters, even Asian people who are Trump supporters, that racism is intoxicating. Like you resist it, you resist it, but if you have an ability to get closer to it and some proximity, and white people are great at this, they will deny all and then pick one out the crowd. And the one out the crowd feels like, oh my God, I'm you chose me. So now I feel closer to whiteness. So now I will shun my people, my past, even my own best interest of what I know because of the emotional feeling that I'm in. I'm in this on this side of the velvet rope. And so that part, it really fascinates me how people get intoxicated with whiteness and how they struggle to figure out how I can be closer to it or be a part of it, even at the detriment of my ancestors, the detriment of my family, and the detriment of my future lineage.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

So if I'm an immigrant, then and I say I want to get inside those velvet ropes, as you say, LeBron, then I'm going to act more white. I'm going to join the white institutions. I'm going to seek academic progress in the places that that empower me and get me closer to that power structure, which is white. So that means losing your heritage. But don't you think people will people who take the position of this is America, so you need to you need to become American to be here.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

We say those words, but what what that actually means is the ancients to me, in my experience, they're the masters of the model minority myth. They come here, their name is Mao Yin, then pick a name. I'm Emily. Where the fuck Emily come from? You Mao Yin. Then they will say, I'm afraid of you, LeBron. I'm like, why are you afraid of me? I didn't bomb your country. I didn't steal your resources. So why are you mad at me? Because they realize that when you come to America, you gotta pick a side. You're picking people of color or you're picking white. Once you pick white, you automatically have to hate, despise, and believe the myths about the people of color, otherwise, your membership gets revoked. It's a crazy game, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

But it felt like we were going somewhere in 2008. No, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:34

I like that, and and the opportunity to elect the first black president of the United States was amazing. Let us not underestimate or disregard what it meant to have Barack Obama be elected the 44th president of the United States. That said, the and part is what that said to many white people in their country. Because they were believers in the myth, because they understood what the founders were writing, even though that wasn't on paper. So they were Anthony Nscalia, who was on the Supreme Court. They were Samuel Lita, they were Clarence Thomas. He's a product of affirmative action at the same time. At the same time at the same time. Agent Dr. Freud. Right, exactly. Right? Physician healed thyself. Well, your question was what do you say to you said Latinos, you said Mexican Americans. Uh I'm taking that larger to people of color who are supporting a racist regime and an individual who has declaratively been racist in Donald Trump. And those people are supporting a system in which they've gained some privilege or they feel like they've gained some privilege, and in order to keep that privilege, they are speaking out and being, right? We always talk about, you know, when we were we had we had we had more gear than the entire fraternity combined.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

For those of you listening at home, a neophyte in a traditionally black fraternal organization is someone who just crossed over from a pledge to a full-fledged member, and that first year until the next session, the next group of pledges comes and crosses. We are called neophytes.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:36

As you are so my youngest child is a neophyte.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

No, he's got gear for days.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:41

And they do have gear for days. Um, and what's what's interesting about it is, and this is uh uh an aside, that they have gear that was provided by the sorority, right? You know, you and you and me were running around in LeBron. We were going to slos it. Swap meat, swap, slossi. Can I go grab letters and put it on this shirt and then put it on this shirt? I did the best I could write on my shoes, yes, like, oh, this is gonna be dope. Get that guy stitching my cut into my head, can I get it cut into my haircut? Like so, neophytes are the most outwardly expressive because they are the most insecure and they are the most fervently um um excited, right? And so when I look at people of color who are for President Trump, when I look at people of color who and I'm not conservatives, that's different, yeah. Look at Condoleezza Rice, and and I had a I had a problem with her participating in George Bush's war, but I understood that for a long time black folks in the South Republicans because Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, white folks in the South were Democrats because the Ku Klack Klan was Democrat. Right, and that switches over when you talk about Kennedy, but the phone call that we all yes right and so the the conversation about people of color for Trump is a conversation about insecurity, it's a conversation about white adjacent, it's a conversation about how do I fit into this system in a way that benefits me, even if it destroys people who look like me, even if it destroys until it's a family member, until it's someone they care about.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Then it gets you start thinking about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:42

Then all of a sudden they go, but but he wasn't supposed to. There were a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:47

You know what, Antonio, you just created a whole new term. So John has his term, my trigger. I now, Antonio, am leaving the term sellout. So in the fraternity, we have neo fights for black and brown people who now support Trump. They're called neo-whites. What's up, my neo-white?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:12

I saw it coming. I saw it coming. I saw it coming like a car crash. I couldn't stop watching.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:18

Oh my god, oh my god. And for those of you, for those of you listening, John just got up like a black man and ran around the room laughing because he couldn't stay seated. Neil Whites!

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

Oh my god. Oh god. Antonio saw it coming. I was cracking up.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

He's like, here it comes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions, other things you want to say? Hit us up at 3 for the founders on Instagram or TikTok and let us know. Till the next time, left on Founders.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

We out. Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed. Are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution? The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

So you may be a little redundant. I am constantly I am constantly amazed, I would say this out loud, at how I am the dumbest person on this screen. Stop it. And and no, they always say you should have friends who are smarter than you because it elevates your game. And I appreciate that. That's why being John with you. The alacrity with which you come up with shit just throws me off. This motherfucker was like, oh yeah, the Constitution. White people would be redundant. What can I say? Black soul trained.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:51

Like, where do you have Papa James in me, dude?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:55

It's just Papa James. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Oh, it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:57

It is.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Revene is the soul of wit, indeed. As he