Ep. 19 - Language, Violence, and Why Words Matter *bonus*

🎙️ Hey y’all, it’s been a minute.

This bonus episode of Three for the Founders is what happens when travel plans, grammar jokes, and breaking news collide. Hours after Charlie Kirk was shot, the hosts ask: was it an assassination or did that fool just get shot? They pull apart how the media frames violence, what it says about our politics, and why America still clings to the myth that killing “the bad guy” somehow makes things right.

And it’s not all heavy — there’s banter about speaking three languages in Morocco, the eternal fight over the Oxford comma, and why “I got you” in Black English does more work than a whole paragraph. The team also gets real about their own dynamics — who’s facilitating, who’s participating — and share some big news: the podcast is moving to a biweekly release schedule. Next drop? October 14th.

So: is violence ever redemptive, or just another myth we tell ourselves? Is “assassination” a political word, or just a shiny label the media slaps on whoever’s trending? And, most importantly… why does “probologetic” kinda sound like a word we need?

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, it's Reynaldo Antonio here. From time to time our conversations run longer than we intended, and we're left with longer, short snippets of some value, in our opinion. We're dropping these shorter bonus episodes as intellectual appetizers for you to chew on until we're back next week. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

We don't want to make Antonio mad. We must be recording at all times. Yes, we at recording at all times. So Morocco.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yeah, we're going to Morocco for two weeks in the end of starting the end of uh September. So that'll be nice. See some family. Yes, go see uh Sabah's family, meet my in-laws, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

How's uh how's that go? Don't worry, this is not being recorded.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Oh, that's gonna go great. I'll just be I'll be the only one there probably speaking English, but I'm like uh I could read body language. Everybody speaks English there, though, right? Uh not in Morocco.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah. So having been totally colonized.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah. A lot of French, though. I think some French, obviously French, Arabic. What what language did you take in high school? Foreign language. English, I think in football. That was the two languages I took in high school. Oh my gosh. Uh failed football. I got I think I got a C and uh English, so English was the foreign language then.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

That was the foreign language. Damn, did you think Spanish? He talked weird. I'm like, what's up? Yeah. That rhythm though, that pentameter, that iambic.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Ooh, okay. Come on now. So did you take Spanish though?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Did you have to take Spanish?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I did take Spanish, and I think I got like a B, maybe a B in Spanish. I should have should have continued taking Spanish because I grew up in National City, was like two miles from the Mexican border. Shout out to National City, my hometown. But you know, 90% of the people there were Mexican, maybe 85, 90 percent. That many. So all most of my friends were Mexican, Mexican and Filipino growing up.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So yeah, yeah. When I when I travel and speak to people about California, or we inevitably have a conversation about speaking other languages, because as you know, Americans were just we speak one language in any other country you go to, which is why I think like thinking of Morocco, every country I go to, or when I visit people from other countries, everybody speaks two, three, four languages. It's just kind of how it is around the world.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yes, everyone. I'm like, I'm starting to feel like inadequate, like, ugh, I only speak one.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

It's hello colonialism. But I just tell people I'm from northern Mexico because I speak, you know, I speak a little bit of Spanish, but I'm like, I'm from northern Mexico. They're like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, Los Angeles. You ever heard of Los Angeles? Straight. I mean, you were like you were straight up Mexico, but you're national city, bro. You're Mexico, oh yeah, bro. You bless believe, man. Did I keep getting texts and I'm worried that it's Antonio and it's not something else entirely? All right. Okay, yeah. He's not the one who's usually late. I know. That's usually me.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

We're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

All right, cut and print. Beautiful guys. Dynomite. That it welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years, and now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go. Who is this on CP time?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Never argue with somebody. I'm sure there's a finish to that sentence. John Brown would have shot.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Here's the thing. I bought this t-shirt a month ago. I've been waiting, right? Because every time I have a t-shirt, and then I put it on and I was like, guess who got shot?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Guess who got shot?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Who shot you? And I was like, you know, whatever, I'll wear it. And then I was, I don't want to wear it. I want to wear it, but it feels a little too on point. And I think it's just a coincidence. Yeah. It is a coincidence, and sometimes coincidences happen. Yes, they do. It's like, you know, nobody, sorry. So we're on screen the day Charlie Kirk got shot, and three teenagers at a high school in Colorado got shot. I didn't hear that part. That happened today, too. Why why would you? Gun violence in America is ubiquitous. The American way. So right. Okay. Even as we plan to go shooting with 2A in LA, you know, that's we're not. I think we ain't. Aster. We not. But uh it made me think, right, when Tupac, when Tupac was killed and when Biggie was killed, people were like, oh, you know, those brothers got assassinated. Right. Martin Luther King Jr. got assassinated. Malcolm X got assassinated. John Kennedy got assassinated. Thank you. Uh the Democratic lawmaker in Minnesota was Melissa Hortman and her husband. And her husband. They were assassinated. But that was a political assassination. And somebody's gonna say Charlie Kirk was an assassination.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

That's what they're saying on TV now already. I'm like, no, that food got shot.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

He got shot. And the reason I brought up Biggie and Pac is because when that happened, we was like, those n got shot. Exactly. All right.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

For for the uneducated, for the uneducated among us, please, please parse the difference between assassination, getting assassinated, and getting shot. Yes. I mean, Biggie Charlie Kirk.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Well, it is it is and it isn't because language gets used like that. But you know, Charlie Kirk was uh a hate monger, he was a white nationalist, he was a racist. He just did one of those round tables where he sits at a table and a bunch of people come at him with stuff and he proves how whiteness is uh perfection and racism, reverse racism, white white privilege doesn't exist. And like he's got all of these ridiculous things that he used to spout and got popular and got paid for them, right? He's somebody who found hate and was able to capitalize because you know, as Dr. Carter said, it always comes back to capitalism. I I turned on CNN and Anderson Cooper was like, What is Charlie Kirk's legacy? I was like, he doesn't have a legacy, he's not that important. I don't know, John, to answer your question, what the definition difference is. I think assassination is political. Oh, well, I mean, assassination is political. You're talking about the political movements, right? Yes, the leaders of movements. And even though Dr. King or Malcolm weren't elected officials, they were very political. Right, nationally known figures at the forefront of a movement.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Yeah. I don't think I don't think he was assassinated. I think he around and found out. I think that's what happened. If you choose a profession where you want to hate Margaret, you want to get paid for hate. At some point, you're gonna f around and find out.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

All that to say, I think I'm probably gonna change my shirt. Because that's not who I am.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Just out of good taste, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

I mean, it's yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was like I put it on and I was like, no, this is I was gonna wear this regardless. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

And this is just hours old, this news. And you're not, I mean, you're demonstrating this fact, and LeBron and I can vouch for you, that you are not the type of person to gloat in somebody's death, no matter who they are. And so we know that that would not have been something, a reason to put on that t-shirt. And it actually brings back the you just brought up Dr. Carter, and there was something he said in another podcast. Believe it or not, he has a he was not only on our podcast, he's got his own.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

No, his podcasts are fire.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

They are, and he he quoted something that I heard from uh Reverend or uh Father Richard Rohr, the myth of redemptive violence, and how there our movies, our culture is dripping with the myth of redemptive violence. Meaning, when a bad guy gets murdered, it's redemptive somehow. Like, oh good, we brought things back into balance, whether that was an assassination or a shooting, whatever we want to call it. And obviously, there's plenty of people that say Charlie Kirk was not a bad guy. He had a huge following of people that say he's one of the good guys, and that's the myth, is that it's just perpetuating a cycle that's terrible. And the the if when you start to become aware that we have adopted this myth of redemptive violence, you then you start to see it everywhere. There's people celebrating his death as if that's gonna redeem us somehow. It's like when Trump was shot at, I'm gonna leave it right there. I'm gonna leave it right there, staged or otherwise. I know there's some part of our psyche that we're like, man, I wish that guy was a better shot, or plenty of people who think otherwise that it was that it was all staged or whatever. My point being, even at the time I thought had he been shot for real and had he been assassinated for real, would that have been redemptive somehow? No.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

I mean I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I don't know. I'm just saying, was the world a better place when Hitler got killed? Or do we say, oh well, you know, well, he got killed. We can't celebrate that. I mean, he was a human being and he there are people who left him.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

People who left him, but his systems were already crumbling. Like, I think that's the difference in that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

But I mean, it strikes me that that um I was talking to someone about it today, just that I'm working on talks that I'm giving about the importance of embracing difference. I mean, we talk about diversity in whatever form, it doesn't have to be just race, racial diversity, it could be idea diversity. Yes. About children, these these days being conditioned to hate the other, no matter what. Like you, and you're in your echo chamber, and the idea of opposing thoughts are very like you just automatically demonize someone that's on the opposite side. That's the that's what political discourse looks like. And we're becoming less and less able to hold opposite opinions and and and fight about it fair. Like let's really let's yell at each other in a good way, of but whose ideas are better, but it's just getting worse and worse and worse, where this is how we end things. It's not good for our soul, man. And but it's not, I think it's gonna surprise a lot of folks who you know have frankly, because Charlie Kirk was white, and frankly, because he was a white supremacist and he catered to that mentality, there's a lot of folks in that world who aren't familiar with this being the way something is dealt with, and they're gonna clutch their pearls and go, I can't believe it. And yet there's a lot of folks who are like, Yeah, this is what happens. This is the f around and find out.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, but they're not used to catching the bullets, they're used to throwing them. That's the difference. That's the difference. And I'm I'm I'm right. This is this is uh obviously hours old. So the conversation we were gonna have, but the conversation we're having.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

You know how we do it, which is very on brand.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I well.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

That's the long, that's the the the original title of the podcast. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, I put don't I literally this is my note, don't call Charlie Kirk's killing and assassination. He was neither an elected official nor anyone working in the government. Melissa Horton was assassinated. That dude just got shot.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

I love it. Great notes. You know, and I'm struggling with like the Democratic Party because they always try to play goody two shoes. So when Republicans, well not the Republicans, when the white supremacists do things, they break laws and do things, we hold them accountable. If somebody jaywalks in the Democratic Party, then the Democratic Party jumps on the Democrat. And so they're always trying to play holier than now. And so I'm like, don't comment like, oh, it was a sad thing that Charlie Kirk got shot, and blah. No, don't say that. Just be quiet. Because if something happened to Kamala Harris or Gavin Newsom, I promise you, they would be shots fired, they'd be laughing on Fox News, Trump will be saying something and laughing. So that's why I have no love. I'm like, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

But you don't even have to go to the made up, you know, Kamala or Gavin. They didn't say anything when Melissa Horton was shot by a Trump supporter who had a hit list and was driving around imitating sure didn't. Didn't say a word. Didn't say Trump said, nope, not worth it, not not important enough for me to comment on, and then lowered the flags today for Charlie Kirk. Like so you don't.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

The double standard is so obvious.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

But is it a double standard because people have a conscience? Like, that's why I was talking about this shirt. Obviously, I haven't gone and changed it. But we'll keep talking. Yeah, no, but but my point is, like, I'm not putting this, like, I don't care what other people say. I felt like personally, that might be in bad taste, even though it's a coincidence. Even though, right, I was not, trust me, I was not thinking about Charlie Kirk today. Right. Until I got to the news and I was like, oh, okay, well, damn.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

No, if we know you, you were thinking about which t-shirt you were gonna wear.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

This t-shirt has been on deck, bro. I know, that's what I'm saying. John Brown, we did the knowledge minute on John Brown. John parts ago. We talked about the good white folk who learned things, who actually LeBron was like, where do we get in the action Jacksons? We got the action John Brown's. Like, there you go, yep. Like, this t-shirt has been on deck and we're ready to go. And then so it happened.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Mine is a little bit less controversial. I'm just I'm not world famous, I'm word famous. Word famous. I like that one. I like that one. That's like words. See me come and then like, I know that guy.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

I know that guy, too. Have you seen the t-shirt that said I'm silently judging your grammar?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

I got a I got that coffee mug. It's one of my profile picks on manyware. I'm drinking out of it. My kids gave it to me for Christmas. And I showed it to I'm silently correcting your grammar, and then my buddy's like, silently.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

The loudest silence I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

No, I had a gift for a minute that was um the Oxford Comma Preservation Society.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Because I'm I'm the way. Let's help our friend Jack off the horse. No, that's not the one. That's uh Jack, comma off the horse. But that's because that's not the Oxford comma. The Oxford comma is the comma that happens before and, correct?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Yes. You for or against?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Well, if you're preservation, you're for. Preservation society, yeah. Um no, but but the comma is also important because you know, let's eat, grandma, or let's eat. Let's see, grandma.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Grandma. Yeah, let's help my friend Jack off a horse. Or let's help my friend Jack off a horse.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Off the horse. Off the horse.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Welcome to Grammar Minute, punctuation corner with three for the founders. Keep your Entero bangs to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

That was funny. I was listening back and he's like, Entero bang Jesus. Dr. Carter was like, I don't know if we should say that about Jesus. Wow. All right. Good deal. Um needed to do a moment to let all of our listener know. Speaking of grammar, let all of our listener know. Let our let our listener know that uh the second half of the season is going to be really hi, mom. And I'm glad your mom has listened to it because my mom hasn't. Uh my mom doesn't even know about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Don't even I don't know if I want it to.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Like for Christmas, for Christmas, we can get them both box sets.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yes. Yes. Yes. And the shirt that Gillian was wearing at your party.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Oh, man. The second half of the season, season one, which was supposed to end with Dr. Carter at episode 16. Thank you for the point. I got you. Um, is going to continue for a little while. However, we're going to be dropping new episodes every other week. So our next episode will be September 30th, and so on, and so on, and so on, until either we get tired of each other or we take a break, uh, or we just start calling it season two. Like, who knows? But it'll be every other week for a while.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Now they call that the working man's cadence. Yes, I gotta share this word. So we're I love how black people make up words. So I was uh work with my colleague Dorothya up up here, and she overheard a black conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And they were saying a black conversation. Hold on. Before you go next, LeBron.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

She heard some people conversating.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

So she heard people who are black having a conversation. Oh, yeah, no, a black conversation. You see why.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Okay, go ahead. Someone was referring to someone else, like, oh no, no, I'd love working with her. She's not problemetic at all. I was like, huh?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

I'm sorry, but she's problemetic.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Probably?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yes. So hold up.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Probably the word. This has apologetic. I don't I don't know what it has in it. It has genetic.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

So no, no, no, she's not proplegic at all. Huh? So I hope us moving our podcast dates to every two weeks is not proplegic for our listeners. That's all I gotta say. If they find that problemetic, please send us an email and we will try to fix that.

unknown 19:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Genetically. Genetically. With no apologetics.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Oh man. But I'll say I used to think conversate was actually a word.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Okay, was that did Biggie introduce you to that word, or was it just a word in the ether? In the black ether, the bleather. Are we gonna call it the bleather? The black ether. I don't know. The bleather.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

But then I no, the blackmosphere. We'll call it the blackmosphere.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I found out it was converse, and I went, that doesn't communicate the sentience of what it is I want to say. So we conversate.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

That's no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

And if you find that problemetic, that's your problem. Oh, I gotta wait for him to come back too because I want Antonio to be part of this. Oh, you can still hear us?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Uh I already brought this up one time about you know, where do you stay instead of where do you live? And we had a conversation about that. But this one, it was funny. I was I was delayed on a flight from somewhere to somewhere, and I I I got bumped to another flight, which meant I lost my seat, I lost my boarding time, all that kind of stuff. So you know, I was exasperated as late at night. I forget where I was, but I went up to the the ticket agent at the booth, black gentleman, and I just I just you know pleaded my case with him, and I wasn't mean or mad. I just said, look, man, I'd really appreciate your help on this. And and we had good, we conversated, Antonio is what we did. We conversated on two and four, and the rhythm was definitely two and four rhythm in this conversate. And later on, he the the flight was coming up, and right before I walked away from him, he kind of he he leaned in and he was like, Hey, if something good comes up, I got you. And that's what he said, I got you. So that's a that's a black phrase, I got you was really cool. Yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm feet many feet away from him, and then his partner comes, this woman, and he doesn't know that I can hear him, I think. And he points at me and he talks to her, he goes, Hey, if something good comes up, that dude right there, he a real one. Give it to him. He a real one.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah, yes, but you gotta understand, John, that in both of those phrases, he said like a five page essay about you in those two phrases. And said you a real one? Bruh, do you know how many white people would give up their firstborn daughter just to have somebody black say you a real one?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Oh my goodness. Okay. So let's conversate on he a real one. What is he a real one? I mean, I get a sense of what I mean. I I think we're all, you know, I'm I'm playing dumb a little bit on purpose, but I appreciate it in the moment because guess what? I got a nice seat on the on that flight. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

He a real one. Like that's the so we've we've had the conversation about R. F. Quang's magnificent tone, babble. Babbel. Um so I'll give it a shout right now. But the you know, my favorite line from that, and I used it the other day, was every translation is an act of betrayal.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

You know, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

There's there's a sentiment attached to a word in the language that it's spoken in or that it's written in, that simply cannot be communicated in another language. You're gonna get close, you're gonna try, right? So he a real one, he's a stand-up guy. Right? But by golly, but it's but it's not but you get to mind now.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Well, hey, now you're getting to mind people in New York, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

But it's not stand-up guy.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Hey, he's a stand-up guy.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

But that's different than what I said, right? Because if you say, hey, pays, he's a stand-up guy, like in that you've communicated a lot more than he's a stand-up guy.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, totally. Way more. The accent and the attitude changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Right, because they're communicating culture. Culture. They're communicating the sentience of the word or the phrase that simply cannot be translated. And part of the problem is in much communication, as you talk about being obsessed with proper communication or communicating what we mean, is that people assume they know what a word means without saying say more, without interrogating. So we can hear the same thing, right? Um, a little while ago, you brought up the Statue of Liberty, and you were talking about immigrants and how they were coming, but the Statue of Liberty is actually celebrating the end of slavery. Like that was the intent of the gift. There are defeat. There were chains in the original sketch on her arms, and yet Emma Lazarus's poem has changed the myth of the Statue of Liberty. Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Those poor, tired, huddled masses were already here.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Is that because the the poem was put on later after it was placed where it's placed?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

The poem was put on, the poem was written as part of a fundraising effort to build the pedestal that the actual statue is upon. And then when they got the pedestal, when they got raised enough money, they put the poem on it. So it's written about and for the statue, but she literally changed the meaning of it or changed the public perception of the meaning, right? So every every translation is an act of betrayal. Her language about it all of a sudden gave a different context.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

It opened the door for some and closed the door on the ones that it's supposed to actually represent.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

And the government of the United States didn't want the statue. Like the reason that the chains and the original meaning are not there is because they said, Oh, this is really nice, and they looked the gift horse in the mouth and said, Can you, you know, unblacken it a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, we didn't want our our primary iconography to be connected to our greatest sin, slavery.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

We would rather it be an aspirational come to us, you who are tired. Wow, that was historical. LeBron, I just turned 54, so my eyes aren't so good. Could you read the title underneath Antonio's name? What does it say? The historian. Ah, the historian.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

I like to what I love about Antonio is he tells the historical facts from a person of color lens, from a different lens than what we're given. So he's not the historian, he's my historian. Ooh. He's my trigger. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Uh I'd rather be a herstorian, but I just haven't dove into that yet.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Haven't dove in that. She's on her way.

unknown 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

You've been a good, a good proponent and sounder of the alarm about our male-centric way of being and presenting. You brought it up many, many times. And we're I know we're all thinking about folks we can have on the show as guests. Yes. And have talked about women in particular who are very, very worthy to come on. I've got another one in mind also, other than we've already spoken of. But give yourself some credit, Antonia. You have been a you've been a spokesperson for sure. A spokesperson. Her son. Persson. Um who's making up all the words on this one, man? The white dude's making up all the words this time. The black atmosphere.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

That's apologetic, by the way, John.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

The last one. That's he went to Harvard. Um, I have a question, John. Uh, honestly. Yeah. And and I I told LeBron because when we went to dinner, um, and I was like, are you aware that there are a lot of times where you facilitate our conversation instead of participate in our conversation?

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Nope. Tell me why. Tell me how.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Um you will and you don't say it out loud. You what what I what I see you do is so what I hear you're saying is, and you'll repeat somebody else's thing, and then add uh like a uh a bridge. Uh at you'll you'll you'll frame it as we come back to it. And I don't know, and and so and my question was really like, do you know that, like, is that a professional uh danger or holdover, or is that just the way you're engaged in the conversation?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

I'm tempted to say it's the way I'm engaged in conversation, but I would be foolish to try to extract myself from my career because I think I do that. I think I do. I mean, I'm I know that I'm constantly looking for clarity, and so if I'm restating something, maybe I'm just trying to say it out loud, make sure that I understand it.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

And but And that's what I mean, is it could be that, yeah, but there are times where it feels like you're hosting and we're guesting because you're catching and then going, hmm. And saying it out loud for the audience, right? And then and then throwing it in a different direction.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I thought that was my job as a white person was to corral colored folk.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

And you know, that's an interesting point because I think we all of us obviously bring our own lens of who we are. But at the same time, John, the communicator, you're communicating and facilitating the communication, but not fully, it doesn't feel like you're fully in the conversation sometimes, like sharing your opinion deeper, like you'll go and then you'll frame it, and then we'll go. Like it's like sometimes, like I feel like sometimes I interpret, I try to interpret things in a black sense. And I feel like you catch it, and then you say, Okay, white people, let me tell you what this is and let me give it back to you. So, yeah, you know what I mean? Like you're interpreting.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Like if if the opposite of that would be when I go back and listen to the Sacred Spaces one, I felt like that was one where I was just participating. Like I was like, What? Wait, what? No, and just responding. So I you know, and I wasn't trying to take what you were saying and make it sense, make it make sense to the white people that I think are listening and try to speak to them. And yeah, that that's probably so you guys agree that that's that's an example of the opposite, right? That's an example of the opposite. Yeah, definitely. Where you were participating just in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

And and I didn't so A, I I I noticed it, but I couldn't, it took me a long time to figure out what I was noticing, yeah. And then B, I was like, maybe that's because you are seeking clarity, right? You did say that, and you have said that, and so maybe it's like what I hear you saying is because you've never used that language about it, but participating in it, and again, this is all you know, as you said, we all sit back and we're like watching and seeing our like how we're presenting, how we're doing stuff. Um and so I was I was curious like if that was a conscious choice or if that was professional holdover or how you were participating, because there are different ways that you've engaged.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah, that's helpful. I'm glad you pointed it out because I I can't help but be a little bit held back, I think. Not even held back, but I think that my guiding principle at the beginning of this that we've talked about a couple times was I I want to I feel like it's my people, my white people that haven't been paying attention a lot, and who need who need assistance and guidance and reinterpretation. And that was how we started, how I started, and then we learned and I learned the the white centricity of all of my thinking and the bringing it back and trying to wait, hold on, let me make this make sense to Jimmy White Guy over here or Susie White girl over there. Sorry to my friend, I have a dear friend Susie. I didn't mean to drop your name in the middle of that.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

I was like, you didn't even go Karen, although I know what Karen's.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I know, it's just overdone. Um, but yeah, I'm I appreciate you pointing it out because what we've come to realize as things have evolved too is that the the I think if if we are providing any benefit to anybody, it's because we are being real with each other, and then whatever spills out of that is the good shit. And it's not the explaining, the over clarifying for them. But I'm still gonna do that for us because I need that for us. But I'm glad you pointed that out. That's good. I appreciate it. So to my white people listening at home, what Antonio has just meant, if I'm reading correctly, typically in the Mexican and black mixed culture, when this is this is how they express love in their culture.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

And that's why I'm glad to be on this podcast. Oh my god, that's the Sigma culture coming out in all of us.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

The white guy's with us, ladies. The white guy's with us.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

He's with us. He's with us.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Oh my god. I think I just need to drink a bunch before I get loose.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

You know, but it's it's it's still interesting. Um because I'm looking at um I'm studying a lot about identity and culture in grad school, and I'm realizing that culture comes out even when we don't know it. Because I was wondering, is that your way of being, John? Because as a professional, but I facilitate the training of teachers, but I don't use those particular skills of going to that mode on the podcast. You do it more than I do, but then you facilitate here. So I'm wondering, is that that? Is that cultural? Because I know studying white culture, white people do not like conflict, they avoid conflict. So if something seems to be controversial, they're going to pivot and move. So I don't know if that part's cultural or okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Thank you for joining us here on three for the founders. Um, we appreciate you. We'll be back on I hate you. Shut up. We'll be back on in your three. We'll be back in your we'll be back in your uh podcast sheets in two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yes. Until then, left on founders. Left on founders. Peace out. Thank you so much, people. We out.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok. Or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

One two three four five.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Six seven eight. Nine. LeBronky.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That was weird.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And literally that'll be that'll be the opening for this episode. They can count, y'all.