Private Schools, Public Lies w/ Luivette Resto & Julie Clark - Ep. 26

🎙️ NPR meets Charlamagne tha God — thoughtful, provocative, and deeply human. Welcome back to Three for the Founders — where classroom truths meet kitchen-table honesty. Today, we’re diving into part two of a conversation that every educator, parent, and student in America needs to hear: “Private Schools, Public Lies: Who Gets to Belong in Education?”

Our guests — Julie Clark, New York Times bestselling author, parent, and public school teacher — and Luivette Resto, internationally award-winning poet, parent, and independent school English teacher — join us to break down what it really looks like when teachers face inequity head-on.

This isn’t your usual PD talk. We’re unpacking:

• How systemic racism shapes classrooms long before students walk through the door,
• Why classism might be the hardest “ism” to teach through,
• And what “care as currency” means when resources and representation aren’t equal.

We’ll hear Julie recall the moment she first saw bias in the system — Black boys being disciplined differently — and how one mentor gave her the lens to fight back.
We’ll hear Luivette speak on bringing poetry to students who’ve never been told their stories belong in literature.
And we’ll talk about what it takes to teach privilege without shame — but with clarity, accountability, and purpose.

Because whether you’re in a public school in South L.A. or a private academy in Pasadena, one truth holds: kids know who’s for them, and who’s not.

🔍 For Listeners to Think About:

• What invisible systems shape how we view our students — and how do those assumptions play out in your classroom, your workplace, or your parenting?
• When have you been called in, not out — and what made that growth possible?
• Are we preparing the next generation to navigate privilege responsibly — or just to enjoy it quietly?

✅ Action Items:

1. Read Lisa Delpit’s Other People’s Children — the book that transformed Julie’s early teaching and might just transform yours.
2. Audit your bookshelf: Whose stories are missing? Add poets like Hanif Abdurraqib, Teresa Mei Chuc, or F. Douglas Brown.
3. Say every name right. Pronunciation is not a courtesy — it’s a declaration of respect.
4. Support diverse storytellers. Buy banned books. Shop indie. Visit bookshop.org if your local store isn’t an option.
5. Challenge your circle. Talk about race and class — especially if your instinct is to stay silent.

Because teaching is political — not partisan. And if we’re serious about justice in schools, we can’t just celebrate diversity; we have to confront disparity. So grab your coffee, open your mind, and lean in — this is Episode 25 of Three for the Founders: “Private Schools, Public Lies: Who Gets to Belong in Education?”

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, or  YouTube and let us know. Til the next time...left on Founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Ladies and gentlemen, all extraneous noises are coming from my house. And I apologize. And you probably told your family. My historian jumps in and I say, um, where were you born?

SPEAKER_04 0:11

In Puerto Rico.

SPEAKER_06 0:13

Okay. Puerto Rico no stay in Los Estados Unidos.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

We are the oldest colony of the United States. Uh we have we were colonized by the Spanish and then colonized very quickly by the US. That is. And we're still fighting for our liberation.

SPEAKER_06 0:28

Facts, facts, facts.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

Um we're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Give me a high five. All right, cut and print. Beautiful guys. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years. And now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three Brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

Thank you for joining us on episode 25 of Three for the Founders. This is part two of our conversation with Louis Bedresto, internationally award-winning poet, parent, and independent school English teacher, and Julie Clark, New York Times best-selling author, parent, and public school elementary teacher. Thanks for sticking with us and back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Julie, you said something at the beginning. Julie, you and I have had obviously talks, the the two of us about this stuff, and both of us have kind of have evolved in our perspective about specific systemic racism in many institutions. And obviously, we're talking about education right now. And you said earlier that it is inherently racist. I know that you've had you've had workshops come to your school. I know that your school has had folks come and give workshops that would lead someone to that conclusion. I I've knowing you, I know that you were there already long before the workshop that I'm talking about happened. But could you talk about a little bit like your own evolution there? Like you obviously concluded that at some point, and then it's been reinforced, the idea that the system educationally is currently racist. Like, what does that mean? Help, help, what form does that take, and how did you get there?

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Um I'm just gonna say in the way that black boys are treated in public schools, um, flat out. And I feel like I saw it from my very first years of teaching um on the south side of Santa Monica, um, where we served all of the Pico neighborhood and all of the Virginia Park neighborhood, as well as the, you know, Tony Sunset Park neighborhood. Um and there's watching my colleagues um treat their black boys differently and punish them differently and hold them to expectations that were unfair. Um and also just not, I mean, well, yeah, not fair. But I also was able to work alongside a brilliant educator, May Shi Rest, um, who really, really, really was able to narrate that for me as a young white teacher, right? Where you see a lot of stuff and you're like, hmm, you know, but you can't really name it. And so she was, she was um half black, half Puerto Rican uh from New York, and she was very much, very much like in my ear all the time. And, you know, leading by example, talking through, you know, what some of the struggles are for our black students in particular, um, and our Latino students as well. But but but really I think um the tragedy is is the experience of our black boys in public school. And, you know, you're one person trying to trying to create an experience for them that is not typical. But I get a lot of kids in my class, I get a lot of black boys in my class that it takes months to undo some of the damage that's been done to them in just the prior year. A speediness to get them in trouble for things that other kids wouldn't get in trouble for, uh, absolutely all yes, all of those things, all of those assumptions about them when they walk in the room. Oh, you know, that kid, I I can't have that kid and that kid together because like why? Because they'll fight. How do you know that? You know, or you know, oh gosh, okay, we got a new student, you know, he's a black boy. Oh God, okay, oh, where am I gonna put that kid? Right. Like all of these things that, you know, teachers, white teachers may or may not say out loud, right? But you can see what they're thinking by the way they behave, by the things that they don't say, by the places they put those boys, um, in the back, by the door, um, by the back window, you know, and and and it's just um, and so for me, that was sort of from the very beginning, for me, was sort of like, fuck that, you know. Um, and so at that point, that was 1998, I think. I really just started, I really just started reading, you know, reading a lot. Um Other People's Children was an amazing transformative book for me. Um Lisa Jones. Trying to think of, yes. Um, I'm trying to think of what else, but of course, you know, I have literary amnesia, so sorry. Um I was like, I gotta write another book just for my own literary amnesia. I can't remember. Did I write one already?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Um no, but like it wasn't in your bio, so maybe you forgot. That's what it was. I yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Well, I I was doing an educator bio. I know, I know. And writing thrillers is nothing to do with being an educator.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

We could we could argue that. Yeah, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Um but yeah, so for me, that's when that's really when it started when I really when I really started seeing like how some of these kids, their families, their, you know, um w were being treated.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. I'm curious because if if Louis Bett and Antonio, you're people of color who teach at uh predominantly, I'm guessing, white independent school. So how do you treat your white students? And is it impacted by the fact that you understand their privilege or the money or power? How so how how do you think you teach them different than if you were teaching in a public school where it's primarily 80% say Latino and 5 to 10 percent uh black and Asian?

SPEAKER_04 7:31

I it's interesting. I don't, I mean, I'm sure I do teach them, I do because I I'm sure I do teach differently. Um because I do sometimes I do an after-school program actually where is predominantly uh black and Latino. Um and you know, and there are kids who are coming in um from the public schools that will come onto campus for like a couple hours and I volunteer to teach poetry actually. Um so they are a d they are definitely a different demographic than the kids I teach, right? So, and I just taught them today before I got here. Um so I I think what I I don't know if I I'm sure like I said, I'm sure I do teach them differently, but I with my wife students, they get a version of me that I they get the version of me that everybody else gets, let's just put it that way. So I don't think I I don't think I I I come off to them or treat them drastically different. I think they I approach I teach the way I teach, and I am who I am. I I am my authentic self when I teach them. And so um I just again, I'm sure I do teach differently because I I can't imagine, but again, I can't look at myself from the outside too much, but um, I think there is probably more empathy. I think I have more empathy when I do teach black and brown students because when I talk to them, I realize that they don't have the same resources as these kids do, right? So when they come to campus, like today, like had conversations about poetry, and I had a couple of questions for them. I said, Have you been taught poetry yet in school? And they're like, No. And it's like, well, have you are you familiar with any poets? And they're like, No, you know, and and I know that my white students, by the time they get to seventh grade, because they've been in private schools their entire lives, they have been introduced to poetry by in sixth, fifth grade, fourth grade, right? My own kids went to private school because I was teaching in private schools, so they got free tuition. My own kids got introduced to poetry in third and fourth and fifth grade because of the private school I was at previously. So I noticed those inequities, and I think I have more empathy for those kids this evening because I realized, okay, I need I need to do a little bit more work with them. And so I have to give, you know, and just be more patient with them and actually meet them more than just halfway. I might need to do maybe 80% today. Um, so I think I end up having more empathy and compassion because I know that they were not, they haven't been given the same resources and the same information simply because where they live and what and what resources they have, right? So um, but I mean, with my white kids, they get this version of me that everybody else gets. They don't get they, you know, I'm not, I don't treat them, I think, I don't treat them with kid gloves either. You know, I I I'm okay with having conversations about privilege, right? And not just financial privilege. I also talk about gender privilege too in the school, in my in my classroom, because the boys have privilege for the girls in that room. And we do talk about gender politics as well. And age, there's ableism as well, right? Ableism and and generational differences. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Are you able to tell your kids like you know y'all racist, right? Now let's go from there.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Well, I do tell them you know you have privilege.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

I definitely don't use the R word though.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Um, because I I do have my own philosophies about that. I do I think about I do think about um I do think about Jay Smooth, who has a really great breakdown that he did many, I think at this point, probably 20 years ago. Different Jay Smooth, different Jay Smooth.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

Oh yeah, sorry. I said, No, we have so we have we have a fraternity brother, my dean. Oh no, uh John Jackson, Jay Smooth. That's the Jay Smooth that comes in my head. Activists, yes, artists, light-skinned dude, they're different dudes. Got it.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Yes. So I was talking about that Jay Smooth, yes, the um the artist and the activists. And he has a great video that kind of went viral. I would say it did go viral about 20 years ago at this point, about the difference between um being called a racist and racist actions. And um, it's really, really great. I liked his distinction. And so I am I am careful about saying y'all racist to to a bunch of kids because um I do kind of believe in that there is a difference between being there is there is race, there is being a racist, and then then there's these racist actions that can take place, especially when you're young. Especially when you're young, especially when they're this impressionable. And going back to Julie's point, you know, I know we joked about it, but they are, you know, the for they're not, I mean, we say the word dumb, but like they do dumb shit. And sometimes they'll they'll say dumb shit and and do dumb shit even at 14. Um, they'll call a girl a b, they'll use the they'll use the n-word. And, you know, my job, I feel instead of going off the deep end right away and assuming the worst in that moment, I check my own feelings and be like, all right, I know I'm feeling a certain way. I know I'm getting I'm kind of kind of hot right now, so I gotta take a, I gotta be the adult and take a step back for a second, then come back into the scene and being like, okay, let me tell you why that's wrong, right? Like you're not gonna call her a you're not gonna call her these names, you're not gonna use this term. And this is why. And I've had incidences already with eighth-grade boys, seventh grade boys using, you know, calling someone gay, or that's so gay, or you're a f like I've used the, I've heard this already. And I have one one particular boy in my mind who's now a sophomore, I believe in high school, who really wrote it, who wrote a lot of episodes down and a, you know, in a yearbook. And it was a really awful experience. He almost got kicked out, not at the school I'm at right now, but I'm glad that we didn't kick him out, honestly, because we used that opportunity with him to work with him all year almost. And by the time the kid left, he gave a speech willingly to the underclassman and said, Let me tell you why you're not gonna do this. You know, and I was really blown away of how much scope he had because we didn't write him off right away as homophobic and and and racist. Like we used that as an opportunity to be like, let me tell you why we're gonna walk this back. And like you said, Julie, there's gonna be some natural consequences because you can't say shit like this without someone popping off on you. And it's not gonna be us popping off on you, somebody next to you will. Um, so I I just feel like I can't really I don't I'm not gonna say that right out the gate to a bunch of kids.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Well, and here's the other thing too. Um, white parents don't talk about race to their kids at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

They do it. Ever. They don't talk about it, they just do it. We're not gonna talk about race, but that's a big over there.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Right. And so a lot of times the kids don't understand that what some of their microaggressions are are racist. And so having those conversations, I mean, I I'm not educating the kids of color in my room on this shit. Like they know it's yeah, they already know. It's the white kids that need this education.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

And I feel like it's important that my kids of color understand that this is a priority, and and it's not their job to answer these questions. I, as a white teacher, it is my job to explain to the other white folk in the room like, here's how it's been, and here's how we're gonna do better.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

And I think we need to educate all of white people. It's also about classism.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Say more.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

I think because also we teach in the in the private schools, Harenago myself, it's teaching racism, but also classism. There's issues of classism in the classroom. Yes. And that I would say sometimes and that is tied to racism, don't get me wrong. But it's really and but that to me is sometimes a little sketchy, not sketchier, but sometimes much harder to dismantle.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

And harder to I would imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Yeah, and sometimes harder for kids to wrap their heads around. Because I think to a certain extent by this point, that by seventh and eighth grade, um they at this point in 2025, they've heard of certain terms already, right? They've heard of DEI, they've heard of certain so the racism questions or conversations are, at least in my opinion, have been slightly easier to have in the classroom because of the past few years, ever since um George Floyd's murder. Um but when you talk about classism, that's when you get a lot of pushback from these kids a lot. And and and that's again, I'm I'm just speaking from experience. I mean, everybody's different, but it's really, really fascinating. And that and the classism issue spans all color lines, folks. And that's yeah, that's where that's where it gets really interesting in the classroom and spicy, let's put it that way. And we start talking about what kind of clothes you got, what kind of shoes you got, and it's not really about the color of your skin, it's basically how much you got in your bank account and whether or not you got a private jet in your hangar.

SPEAKER_06 17:04

I've been arguing about having XX chromosomes on the screen because um I had a very different answer uh than Louis Vett about um how I deal with kids of color in my classroom versus how I deal with white kids in my classroom, kids of the global majority versus kids of the global minority. And um it definitely has to do with energy, and I wouldn't have I wouldn't have languaged it as empathy. Um I would have uh I make those same assumptions. Uh a couple of conversations ago, LeBron, you said we're all right, uh functioning in a white supremacist construct, and we've all grown up with these assumptions, but I don't assume when I have a kid of color, unless I have, you know, when when I've spoken to them or I've spoken to their parents, and I know that they've been raised in this environment, if they're new to my middle school, if they're new to my fifth, sixth, seventh, or eighth grade, I'm assuming they're coming with a deficit. And it's still that deficit mindset. Um and it's not a deficit of capability, it's a deficit of resources. It's a deficit of, you know, like Louis Beh had said, um, have you been exposed to poetry? Have you been exposed to, you know, Ida B. Wells? Have you been exposed to these structures that support you? I, you know, I have Nina Simone's uh uh young, gifted, and black on my playlist that plays in my classroom all the time, every day. Um the kids come in, they're like, we know we're gonna hear it's gonna be a good day, then we're gonna hear this, and we're gonna hear this, then we're gonna hear Nina Simone. Like, there are things that happen in my classroom that I make assumptions about, um not assuming that my white students don't have this, right? But assuming that my students of color need this. And and it I would not have languaged it as empathy. Um, and so thank you for that, Louis Bet. Um, but I I talked about Rob Evans and uh Just Curious, his podcast, and he was talking about um uh care as currency. And so that's the language that I that I would put to it is care as currency. I'm I'm giving them more care because A, they're functioning in this predominantly white institution, but they're existing and trying to learn and trying to be in a community where even if they have the same shoes, they have different hair. Even if they have different hair, you know, you know, for my little black girls, was it pressed today? And did you get a whole bunch of compliments about the fact that your hair was straight versus when it was curly and people were like, oh, can I touch, can I touch it? Like that that conversation is different in you know, different households. Little white girls touch each other's hair. They they they right, that's part of the cultural mix-up and how I'm gonna do. But you don't you don't pet little black girls' hair, you don't, right? My when I shave my head, I have my my eighth-grade boys walking up going, ooh, can I cannot? That is not how we do, right? Right, and and so there is an assumption that I make about the cultures that they're bringing in, that I think is based on my experience and what I've learned and who I am. Um and so I'm adding things to the classroom and to the environment to speak to them without speaking to them about that they belong and that they are capable and that they are going to do this, that my white students benefit from, right, but isn't designed for them. They're just getting hit with the buckshot.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

I mean, I think I try to do that for my students in the poems that I choose in my curriculum, like the fact that I'm specifically choosing poets of color, right? And and, you know, and that I I again I'm very intentional that we're gonna learn about Hanif Abdurraqib, we're gonna learn about these, you know, we're gonna learn about F. Douglas Brown, we're gonna learn about the you know, Aruni, who's Sri Lankan, like we're gonna learn about Teresa Maitruk and how to pronounce her name. And so, like, we're gonna learn about these women and these men of color. And and again, I do it because, again, it's it's subversive, what do you want to call it? Subversive, you know, John. I mean, but for me, it's a way to show or to have my students be seen in the curriculum that I can control. Like, right? It's like I want my kids to see themselves, even though they're not the global, the global majority in my classroom. They will become the global majority, at least in my curriculum, for 55 minutes. And everybody else is going to learn. Like the people who were like, oh, my name is not, you know, that complicated, or is my name is easily said. Yeah, but the kid next to you, guess what? He doesn't have the same kind of, you know, uh ease in the world as you do, because they have a name that may be a little bit more complicated to say, or people like to butcher it, or they just want to like, you know, truncate it, or because they have lazy anglified tongues, they just want to say something different. So, you know, um, you may have that privilege, but your classmate does not. And this poem talks about that. So let's all have that conversation. And maybe the you who is in the minority in this moment may just need to be a listener.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

And that's okay. Take the notes, take the notes. That's why you didn't annotate. Take the notes. There you go. And then when you're done in 55 minutes and you go back to your regular schedule program, you can at least say, Yeah, I need to learn how to say his name better.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Now I'm not sure. Easy Anglified Song is one of my favorite sound bites for LeBron, I know you got a question, but even like the mispronunciation of Kamala, the whole Kamalak, like obviously, some did it on purpose just to say, you know, I'm just gonna say how I want. But then so many just otherwise well-meaning people didn't even take the time to say, you know what, I'm gonna respect this reality and learn to say this correctly. It's just like learning someone's language in a respectful way. But there's so much behind the choosing to not learn it as much as there is choosing to learn it. Like, there's a lot behind there. That's that's that's huge. I love that you said the lazy Anglican tongue. Because that's supremacy. Like, we don't need we're not gonna trouble ourselves for everybody else. They're gonna, I'm gonna say your name the way Americans say it.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

That's so I'm just gonna call you Joan.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

I'm just gonna call you Joan. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Or I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna call you Mandami, I'm gonna call you something else. Like Cuomo refuses right now, currently, to call him by his like by his last name properly.

SPEAKER_06 24:04

Yeah, he also refuses to take no for a complete sentence. So he is indeed.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Yes. And he and he's also you know ignorant of the fact he's losing this race, whatever. But um, yeah, but it's just really fascinating to me. But yeah.

unknown 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Were you gonna say LeBron? You had a question. Yeah, it's an interesting question because I want to get at the the opposite ends of the polar scale. So, Julie, you're teaching in public school. So just for this exercise, I want you to consider black boys in public school. That's at the bottom, that's one end of the poll. Uh Louis Vet and Reynaldo, you teach at the other end of the poll. So you teach the white males or the white boys. So those are the polar opposite ends of America. Everything is about the white man versus the black man, and uh we're all battling in between, but those are the two polar ends of the forces. So I'm curious, Julie, if you could think of three things that you would want to instill in your black boys, what would they be? And then Louis Vett and Brent and Antonio, what are three things you would like to instill in your white boys as educators? Because you're all so influential, and this is where change happens to me in the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Um for my black boys, I would like them to see themselves as people of value um who have something to offer, something valuable to offer the rest of us. I would like to see I would like them to see themselves as leaders and innovators and um and to know that um I mean I my black boys, I just want them to know that they always have a home with me. Always that that that my space will always be their home.

SPEAKER_06 26:14

Right. That's beautiful. You want to go or you want to think? I got one.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Uh you go first, because I'm I got I got something too, but you go first. It's okay.

SPEAKER_06 26:27

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 26:28

I just uh so um I thought I was gonna get through this whole thing without referencing any media, and then LeBron, you asked this question. And so in Ted Lasso, uh there is a conversation that Ted has with Jamie Tart. And uh if you're familiar with the show, then I don't have to say familiar with the show. Right. Um and he says, you know, you may be the best athlete that I've ever coached, but you're so sure that you're one in a million that you forget that out there you're one in eleven. And so the conversation that I have with my young white children, and uh I I actually wanted to throw this out here when John said earlier that he had some um reflections of himself and Charlie Kirk. And and I know that my young white boys, especially in the privileged environments that they grow up in, very much fall into that. Is that yours is not the only experience, and when you act like it is, that's where you get into trouble. Um and so that that quote struck me, um, because teaching them not that they're not valuable, right? Because every human being is valuable, not that they're not important or skilled or able, but that those things don't make them special, those things make them human is the message that I try to instill every day.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Um, I think for me uh it's it's a different it's a different response because um I am a woman of color teaching these white boys. So I think there's a difference between me and Renato right away in the in the classroom, right? Um and after a while I get really comfortable being able to say that to my students to say, look, I'm a woman of color walking into this space. I am very well aware in this world there's I have multiple strikes on, you know, kind of hovering over my head. You know, I'm a woman, I'm a woman of color, I'm bilingual, right? Like there's many things I'm already walking into a room very cognizant of that I have to battle, right? Um and so I I say this out loud to the students because I want them to be aware. I think one of the things I want them to be understanding of is like as white boys, specifically, when they walk into this world, they're they're they you know it's like almost like when you go to Monopoly and you already are five paces ahead of everybody or something, like, oh, you roll the dice, you're already here. Like you're already gonna be five paces of above everybody. It doesn't matter. You're above five paces of the white girl next to you, right? And this is just the way the world is, unfortunately. We live in this patriarchal society. Um and so I'm I'm always just like you I just want you to be aware of the privilege that you have as a white male when you walk into a space. Now, what do you do with that? What are you gonna do with that space? What are you gonna do with that privilege? Are you going to use it to your advantage? Are you going to are you going to exploit it? Or are you going to hopefully demystify it? Are you going to spread the wealth? Are you going to then try to bring others with you? Are you going to try like what are you going to do about this? Because I need you to understand that you do, you do understand that at the in this world, you're winning. You've been winning. So what is your plan here? And I try to, you know, when I can get to that, when I get to that place of trust, and you talk about energy, and I'll go, I get what you're saying. Once I get to that place of trust with my with my kids, I can be like, what are you gonna do with this? What are you gonna do with it? It's like, you know, I use this this, you know, the suit, the Spider-Man, and we you know, with great privilege comes great power. What are you gonna do with this great power? Now, do you want to take advantage of it and you know keep moving five paces ahead and say fuck everybody? And right away they're like, nah, nah. I was like, all right, cool. Like, so what do you do with this? Right? It is great power, it's a great privilege that you have. Give us a sed. And and only you can decide what you're gonna do with that. And you're the only one that can honestly go to bed at night and put your head on a pillow and be cool with what who you are and you know, behind closed doors or not. And so, like, I really try to have those kind of heart-to-heart conversations, and and um that's kind of where I'm at with them. I just want them to be very self-aware of like how they walk in this world already, uh, even if they're only 13 or 14 years old.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Do you get resistance from a little bit? From some of the boys, like, what are you talking about, privilege? Do you have to work on that with them?

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Um, no, because I think, and I have a couple of boys in my head in mind um who were pains in the asses, I think, when I first met them. And by the end of the year, they're the ones that waited to get to shake my hand before they walked out of my classroom to tell me thank you for a great year. Um, and for different reasons, because um I treated them like I treat my sons, you know, with empathy and compassion. And when I saw they were having a hard day, I still stopped and said, Okay, you're having a hard day, take a break. I think that's important as an educator that regardless of the kid in front of you, they're gonna have a hard day. And so I think that the minute you show that to a child, they're gonna be more willing and leaning into when you want to have those heart-to-heart conversations with them. I think for me, that's my experience, that's my approach. Um, and and I again, I'm just thinking about them in my head. I saw one of them the other day, and now he's in ninth grade, and I say, Hey, my man, what's going on? And he's like, Oh, I'm just here doing work. And I'm like, how is ninth grade treating you? He's like, Ah, you know, it's it's a little harder. And I'm like, all right, how's your family? What'd you do over the summer? How's baseball? And he was just like, Oh, they're good. Thank you for remembering. And then I'm like, all right, cool, I'll let you be, you know, but you know, you can always holler at me if you need any help. And he was like, and then he goes, I appreciate that. And then he goes, you know, I miss your class. Like, you really like you, you you busted our asses all the time, but you actually gave a shit, you actually gave a shit. And so, and that's all that really what you want. And I think when a kid realizes you give a shit about them, that's when you can then start having those harder conversations with them about classism, racism, ableism. And they're more apt to listen to you because they know that you're coming at them on a more human level from the jump. But if you come in already with an agenda or you already pigeonhole them, and that's the attitude you have, then you're like you said earlier, Julie, the walls go up, they're not gonna listen to you. You will not get to that child.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah, I mean, there's a difference between calling someone out and inviting them in, right? Like there's there's just a huge you just you can't be calling people out and then expect them to want to join the conversation. They're gonna just walk away.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Right. You can call them in or call them out.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

And at that age, honestly, from 12 to 14, in my experience, calling them in, you will get works every time way further with the child on so many levels if you call them in versus calling them out. Every time.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Every time.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

No matter, no matter who they are, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yep, yep, yep, yep. And it makes me think, LeBron, the work you do. I mean, so much of what Louvette and Julie are talking about is intrinsic to them, or it's it's you know, it's who the two of you are as people and it's who you've evolved to become. And it's parallel to what you teach teachers, LeBron. Like, you know, you blew my mind many episodes ago, and also just in individual conversations where you say, you know, I especially white teachers, male or female, but the the dominant demographic in education is female, white female teachers, right? So you have a job to do in making them have their students of color feel something from them. Yeah, and that that's what I hear both of you saying. It's like they have to feel you. And remember, LeBron, you're like you were teaching dudes who look like me. If you would just say the words, do you feel me? Just like work that into but it beyond just saying it, like they actually have to feel it too, right? There has to be that real, like it's it goes back to that language, like you're a real one. You're a real one. They sense you are a real one. And I love, I mean, LeBron, like this must be what what is it teasing out on you right now? As we're talking, like, and you hear Julian Louvette talk, you're like, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Like, would you want to just take them and have everybody do uh you know teach the way they are?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Like, what what parallels are you seeing with the work that you do that I'm getting at? What I'm seeing is whether it's independent school, whether it's public school, that doesn't matter. Great teachers are great teachers. My issue is we don't have enough Julia's. We don't have enough Louis Betts, we don't have enough Antio's. And for the few that are that Louis Bet and Antonio, their expertise is going to the upper crust who needs it, but then there are other students who look like them who need it. Then we need Julie to be an advocate to talk to her fellow white teachers and be like, look, y'all, we got to do better.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

And so it's for me in education, it's for me, it's not about race, though I see race. It's about highly effective teachers versus ineffective teachers. So anytime I see a highly effective teacher like we have here, I'm happy because I know the students of colors are getting something. I know my white boys are getting something, I know my white girls, I know my eight, I know that whoever's in your presence is getting it. And so that was always for me my challenge. It was like, LeBron, why you there's only a handful of black math teachers. Why would you go teach at a private Jewish school? Why would you go teach at an elite school? I said, because they have the power. So their image of black people is what they see on TikTok or the six o'clock news. So I need the people who are going to be hiring, running companies to see a real black man in the flesh. So if I'm your favorite teacher, your favorite teacher is a black man. That that's not gonna leave your brain. That's so impactful. It's huge.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Powerful.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

And so that's why I appreciate the work that all of you are doing.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

I used to tell my students in my old school, I was like, look, you know, you're gonna leave here in eighth grade and you're gonna go to college and you go to a graduate school, and you're not gonna remember the name of me. You're not gonna remember my last name, but you're gonna remember me as the crazy Puerto Rican lady who taught you how to use a semicolon.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

And they're like, no, we'll always remember you. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. But I'm okay with that. You don't need to remember my last name, but you do need to remember, you know, that I was that that brown teacher who couldn't speak English when she came into this country, who taught you English literature.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

They remember Miss Bristol, they remember Miss Crossable. Because we all do. If we all say who are your favorite teachers, we could we can name off like five names right now.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Right, right. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but still, I think it's important. I to your point, LeBron, I think it is important you show up the way you do because um the kids in your classroom, at least for me, the kids of color in my classroom, it's important for me to show up for them, for them to see themselves in the classroom. And also the kids who don't look like me to still have me in the classroom, to be like, oh, okay. My my my you know, again, my English teacher for two years was the brown woman who did not speak English when she came to this country. And here she is teaching us how to, the mastery, you know, how to put together an essay and things like that. And I'm very transparent about that. I was like, I didn't speak English when I came here, like, and here I am with two with two degrees in English.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

So that's awesome. So, in closing, I would like each of us to shout out two of our favorite teachers because I believe it's so important we recognize who had an impact on our lives, and then someday I hope that our students are speaking our names when they're asked to identify their favorite teachers. So if you could each identify two of your favorite teachers and call their names out, I'd appreciate it. Go ahead, start, LeBron. Okay, for me, it's Mrs. Reimer, my high school physics teacher, and Mrs. Charles, my high school English teacher.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

I'll go with it's it's a little too easy. Mrs. Anderson, high school choir teacher, Dr. Ford, high school theater teacher. Both of them taught me way more than just music and theater. It was mostly, I mean, obviously a lot of that, but life, life, life, and experience, experience, experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Um, I think uh for me it was an eighth grade, Mrs. Vanacor, uh, who uh had us read. It's where I've read uh Maya Angelou's uh I know where the cage bird sings, um that um in eighth grade. Should probably shouldn't have been reading that in eighth grade in a Catholic school, but okay. Um and um shout out to um shout out to Mrs. Quigley, uh my senior year in high school, who was getting her doctorate, um, who's not Dr. Quigley somewhere, and uh where I read Margaret Atwood's uh for the first time. Um so uh yeah, and my love for poetry came from uh Mrs. Quigley's class where I so yeah, those two teachers. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Uh for me, uh Dr. Marcy in seventh grade algebra was the only math class I loved.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Oh, you loved LeBron, you're making LeBron so happy.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

I know. Math was math was not my superpower. Um, and so Dr. Marcy just was an amazing and John he his son was the magician at your first cabaret. Oh, Michael, like Matt. Matt Matt Matt Mercy. Oh my god. Yeah. And he did the rope trick, which I was like almost I was dying because Dr. Mercy used to do this rope, and I had no idea until Matt said like the reason why he did like Dr. Mercy would take he Matt always wanted to be a magician, and Dr. Mercy like took magic classes with him in order to like learn magic, and Dr. Mercy would do all these tricks in class. The rope trick was my favorite. So really um, and then of course, and then of course, Carol Jago, who was my 10th grade English teacher, who really I want to say gave me the basics and the tools for becoming the writer that I am today.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

The legend, Miss Jago, for sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 41:48

Um I would say that Mrs. Schwartz, uh my eighth-grade social studies teacher, um, not because the social studies was great, but she saw me and we traded books back and forth. We read the Dune series concurrently. Uh wow.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Right, exactly. So she gave birth to your like media obsession or at least fanned it into flame to some degree.

SPEAKER_06 42:14

Maybe. Um, but but it was just funny because if you're familiar with the series, uh it gets to a point where there's one of the books that's very explicit, and she said was like, um, yeah, we can't read this one together. Uh you shouldn't read this one. And uh you have to ask them father to your mother and your father to go get this one for you. Um and she was right. Um and then uh Tom Gopel was my history teacher uh two years at at Loyola. And uh I know that I model a lot of the way that I interact with students um on him. Uh that was just a class where I learned to be um and to ask questions and to find answers. And so those are my two. Those are my two. Fantastic. I just want to say thank you to the two of you. Um my foibles aside, you all have contributed and simply demonstrated um why we need in Three for the Founders, uh, many more female voices, uh, many more women representing. Um, if only because we speak the same language, but we're saying different things with the same words. And both of you have um given us a lot. Uh both of you are continuing to give a lot. And I just appreciate you being here. Thank you, Julie. Thank you, Louis Vett. I'm gonna let these dudes talk, but y'all can get the final word on this episode 3 for the Founders.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yes. I'll go ahead, John, and then you can wrap it up. So um, thank you so much for being guests on our podcast. It's I truly appreciate you both and appreciate you all. Um education is my passion, it's your passion as well.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

And see, I predict as it's already happening because both of you had. Yeah, the both of you have uh been teaching for quite some time. So already this is happening, but I'm gonna continue to predict that they will remember your names, Ms. Resto and Ms. Clark, because the impact that you're having. And I just want to echo what LeBron said. I'm I'm so grateful that you all took the time. My only regret is we don't have more time. Maybe we need to do another round when something else, you know, we'll figure that out. But um, you know, you you are like LeBron said, you're we need more like you. I'm so glad the two of you are doing what you're doing. And the the role the teachers play is is it sounds cliche when we say it, but you are creating our future, and it's it's true, and and the good ones like you are held dear in people's hearts and minds forever. So I hope you all feel that and know that that's true. So thank you so much for spending the time here.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Thank you. Thank you, Julie.

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Louis Bet, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 45:16

I mean, I you know, I've heard so much about you guys from John that it's just like sitting down with old friends. So it's been fun. I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

Yeah, same here. Really pleasure to meet you, Julie. This is a very comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yeah, you too.

SPEAKER_04 45:32

I gotta read now your books, but I think my um, for sure, like definitely. Um, and thank you guys for inviting. Um, let's get ice out of LA and out of Chicago and out of DC and um out of Portland.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Out of America.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Out of America, thank you. All right, all right, on that. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Amazing. Thank you all so much.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Good time. Left on Lefton Founders.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

We are we out.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

Bye guys, we out, bye guys.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok, or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

I think the only thing I have to say is read banned books, folks. Read all the banned books. Um please support your independent bookstores. Um please try not to buy books off of Amazon if you're gonna buy books. Please support an independent bookstore. And if you cannot support a and if you can't go to an independent bookstore, please go to bookshop.org and you're able to support an independent bookstore that way. Um and yeah, buy banned books and support writers um and their craft so that we can continue to do this work that is so necessary and needed to telling our stories and other people's stories and documentation.