Ep. 25 – The Talk, The Timeout, and The Truth About Education (Part 1)

How do you raise and teach children to be kind and accountable in a world that often rewards neither? This week on Three for the Founders, hosts Reynaldo Antonio, Lybroan, and Jon get real about “gentle parenting,” classroom culture, and what education is actually for—with two powerhouse guests who’ve seen it all from both public and private school perspectives.

Julie Clark—veteran Santa Monica public school educator and New York Times bestselling author—joins Luivette Resto, award-winning poet, mother of three, and middle school English teacher, to unpack the myths and realities behind “gentle parenting.” Together, they ask what happens when empathy gets confused with permissiveness, how anxiety gets inherited, and why “The Talk” for Black and Brown families is still a life-and-death conversation.

From classroom discipline to language politics, from banned books to the economics of words, this episode pulls no punches. The conversation moves from the dinner table to the desk—exploring what happens when care, culture, and control collide.

You’ll hear the hosts and guests break down:

• The difference between consequences and punishments, and why anger doesn’t belong in either.
• How race and class shape what kind of “gentle” a parent or teacher can afford to be.
• Why critical thinking and creativity are often the first casualties of censorship.
• And what it really means to “be the adult” when the kids are watching everything.

Whether you’re a parent, teacher, or just someone rethinking what “raising good humans” means, Episode 25 will make you laugh, flinch, and maybe rethink that next parent–teacher email.

📚 Takeaways & Actions:

1. Read banned books—and talk about them with the next generation.
2. Support independent bookstores and classroom teachers bringing critical stories to life.
3. Teach failure as growth, not shame.
4. Model boundaries and respect—gently, but firmly.
5. Keep classrooms and conversations open to complexity, discomfort, and truth.

🎧 Three for the Founders: Where the book club meets the block, and every lesson plan has politics.

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Hello? How are you doing? How do you be? How do you be? It's okay. So when you want to hear, you have to turn headphones on. Headphones good for hearing. Okay, good for us.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

He's Nigerian now, man. Antonio become Nigerian. Oh man.

SPEAKER_05 0:17

How are you doing? I think I stand up for today. Yes, let us. Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Good thing. Oh. Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Welcome back to water. Love hard racism. Right. Thank you for connecting my English, which stinks. I am exchange student from Cameroon.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

We're brothers. We're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

All right, cut and print.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Beautiful guys. Dynomite. That is. Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years. And now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

So let's see what the blackest co sent me. I mean, I think I know too.

SPEAKER_06 1:20

You ordered it, but it always takes just long enough that you forget what it says.

unknown 1:25

Disappointment.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

With black jees. With black cheeses.

SPEAKER_06 1:35

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

That was I got a t-shirt today, too, but I've been waiting to wear mine.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Oh, yes, Malcolm X. Malcolm X Squared. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

There it is. Yes. By any math necessary, baby.

SPEAKER_09 1:57

I am trying to get my headphones hooked up. Hold on one second. I don't know why you can see that. Yeah, you are because I can hear us.

SPEAKER_10 2:04

Yes. Only because um I had the volume off my on my computer.

SPEAKER_06 2:12

LeBron James, Julie Clark, Julie Clark, LeBron Clark.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Pleasure to meet you. Have so many great things about you. Finally. I am a big fan. Thank you for coming to Three for the Founders now.

SPEAKER_09 2:24

Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

My MC Hammer too legit to quit.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Am I allowed to introduce our most esteemed Julie Clark now?

SPEAKER_06 2:33

Please do. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Please do. I'm thrilled to welcome Julie Clark to the Three for the Founders podcast for so many reasons. First of all, she's an upper elementary educator of nearly 30 years. I had to find out what upper elementary meant. So y'all can Google it if you want. I'm just going to go on. Upper elementary educator of nearly 30 years in the Santa Monica public school system, which LeBron says is a real school system, the Santa Monica public school system. Since 2008, she has put an emphasis on political engagement, social justice issues, and anti-racism instruction. If it's happening in our country, she's discussing it with her students. Now, also, Julie is incredibly modest because that's the bio that she gave us. What she left out is that Julie Clark is a New York Times bestselling author. Three times. Three times. You can test me on this. Three for the fountain. The Last Flight. And most recently released Ghost Rider, which is like flying off the shelves. She's doing a book tour on it. So it's an incredible author, an esteemed author, and an incredible human being. I've seen her parenting. She's a dear friend. I've known her since the 20th century. We've been friends since high school. She's a Northsider, and I still think she's cool. So we're welcome to Three for the Founders, Julie Clark. Yay, Julie.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Okay, I can't with you.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Oh how you how you got people in the background? What's that about? How do I have people in the background?

SPEAKER_03 4:17

That's Louis Vett's fan club.

SPEAKER_07 4:20

Like, we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

I didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

What are we doing exactly? Because if we if we mute that button on Antonio, we might not have a show.

SPEAKER_06 4:30

Welcome, Louis Vett Resto, the three for the founders. I just want to give a little bit of background. Um, Louis Vett Resto is an award-winning poet, a mother of three revolutionary humans, which will be important in our conversation, and a middle school English teacher. She was born in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, and was proudly raised in the Bronx, New York. She is a cantomundo and macondo fellow. Her books of poetry include Unfinished Portrait and Ascension, 2013, both published by Theatrucha Press, as well as Living on Islands Not Found on Maps, which is Flower Song Press 2022. Her work has been mentioned in the LA Times and this magazine, and her work has been published in North American Review. Resto is an associate is the associate editor of Theatrucha Press, and she serves on the boards of Women Who Submit and is the president of the board at Beyond Baroque. She lives in the San Gabriel Valley in Los Angeles, and she's my friend. Welcome, Louis Vedresto.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, welcome, Louis Vence. Welcome.

SPEAKER_07 5:39

Thank you guys. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_06 5:41

How many of you are familiar with the term gentle parenting?

unknown 5:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

I'm black. That term doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

LeBron's like, I refuse to be familiar with this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Well, no. I never received it, and I sure as hell didn't give it, but go ahead.

unknown 6:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

See episode whatever when you talked about Mama James and Papa James for that matter.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

For both of them. So I'm just gonna give you the definition that I got from uh artificial intelligence. The large language model gave me this as I was trying to put words to it, and then I'll give you the question. So it says gentle parenting is a modern approach to raising children that emphasizes empathy, respect, and understanding, avoiding punishment and rewards. It focuses on building a strong parent-child relationship through open communication and setting healthy boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Who came up with this concept? I I I need to know who's the original author of this concept of gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Is this connected to Dr. Spock? That was all the rage when our parents were raising us. No, I remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

No, Julie. When was Dr. Spock in the 60s?

SPEAKER_10 6:57

60s and early 70s, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Okay, but that's that's the term gentle parenting wasn't connected to Dr. Spock.

SPEAKER_10 7:05

No, not at all. No, okay, no.

SPEAKER_06 7:08

All right.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

See, they they know more than we do because I don't have podcast host because I ask yes or no questions. Next? Yes. That was terrible. Say more. Thanks, John. Say more.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

Should children of the global majority or parents of the global majority be quote unquote gentle parenting, or should they be raising their children in preparation to deal with the world as it is, not the world as we wish it was?

SPEAKER_10 7:40

I think that the term gentle parenting is and it's not a the definition itself is great. However, um nobody's doing that. As a teacher, um parents aren't parenting gently, they're parenting inconsistently, they're parenting in fear of their child being uncomfortable at any given moment, and they parent out of panic that their child is going to feel bad about anything at any moment, and they are constantly trying to circumvent those uncomfortable feelings, and then they call that gentle parenting. That's not gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_07 8:27

Yeah. Or if I may add, they also add they're adding to their kids' anxieties and fears. Yes. And I think they're projecting their own anxieties and fears to their children. And so, like a child who's not fearful or anxious, all of a sudden within a year, you'll start seeing the development of that anxiety and this perfectionism uh starts to develop. Where if you if you were teaching the kid, let's say in seventh grade, like I was at one point, and yeah, I have them in eighth, I do see a shift by eighth grade sometimes to be like, wait, you weren't like this last year. What happened? And it wasn't it wasn't anything that the child did, it wasn't even their social circles. You you know, once you have parent-teacher conferences, you find out, oh, this is where it's coming from. And so yeah, that's not gentle parenting either. There, I think parents, I mean, it's it's there some of them are not accepting of their own role in in what what they're doing to their kids, you know, either subtly or over, you know, um just overtly. Because I do think that a a good chunk of this anxiety that I see in my students even now is is not coming from their friends, it's not coming from the school, it's coming from home. That to me is not also gentle parenting.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

What it what are they making their kids anxious about? What are the things that what what types of anxiety are they putting in them, you think?

SPEAKER_07 9:53

I I mean from what I see, they're they're expecting their 12-year-old to get all A's. They're expecting, you know, for them to get every problem set correct. And or kind of going along what you just said, Julie, for them not even to be able to accept when they get a B or a C or D. Like how do they handle those moments when they do get a grade, you know, that they weren't expecting? Like, what happens if you you study your butt off all night or all week and you do all the things and you take the test and it still doesn't work out in your favor? What do you do with the child at that point that did all the things that they, you know, they worked hard, they met with the teacher, but they still got the C plus? What do you do with that? And how we respond as educators sometimes is in direct contrast to what the parents, how the parents react at home. And so the parents see the C plus as a failure. And therefore, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 10:50

Yeah, and parents don't teach their kids how to fail. They teach their kids that avoiding failure at all costs when as educators, we know that the research shows that in failure is when you learn the most. And so kids who are terrified of failing are missing out on this amazing muscle that they can flex all throughout their life to know that they can do hard things, they m may fail, but that that's okay and that that's where the growth happens. But parents are not willing to risk their children's future at Stanford or Harvard or wherever. Sorry, that was for you, LeBron.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

And because I was one of like first when you talked about gentle parenting, I'm like, we're talking about white people. So then you're talking about then you're talking about private school and this. So I'm like, oh, we're talking about white people. Oh, okay. So in the context of white people.

SPEAKER_09 11:50

We're talking about white people.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Now we can talk about gentle parenting because it don't happen for people of color. Talk about, well, failure happens every day for people of color. There is nothing fair about this country, nothing fair about school, uh, parents working two, three jobs, so they don't have to have anxiety. You have to be at a certain income level. You it's a privilege to have anxiety. People don't have the time or energy for anxiety. That's what rich, wealthy people who got things to do. I mean, you can that's a luxury.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Like peanut allergies are luxuries. Like being black folks in color, those are luxuries. Like, I can't afford that. Um if I'm hungry, I'm gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_08 12:28

You're gonna eat it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:32

But no, you just I got George Washington Carver died penniless and insane, trying to play a phonograph record with a peanut. Like, but I want to go, I want to go all the way back to this to this question, right?

SPEAKER_06 12:46

I'm not doubting or debating any of those things. My question stems from an incident. Uh, King David, uh David Jones, we mentioned him a few times, R. Sands. His wife called. She was asking me about this as an educator. Whether it started in in white communities or not, whether it started in wealthy communities or not, I'm I'm sort of bringing it back to this idea of gentle parenting, this this concept of establishing, I guess, a positive relationship. We're having a five-person referendum on gentle parenting. Is it a good idea anyway? Period. But if the question really was for you know, children and parents of the global majority, people who have the wind in their face, as LeBron has said, is it something that they should be aspiring towards? I guess where it struck me was I very definitely didn't have the talk with my oldest child, even though he was out driving on these streets. And I didn't do it because I didn't want to put that anxiety on him.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I've learned to raise my hand from from you, Antonio. For the people of the global minority like myself, could you please explain what the talk is?

SPEAKER_06 14:04

So the talk is the conversation that black and brown parents have with their children as they walk out the door about how to interact with the police, about how to interact with people in authority, because you know, as as Trayvon uh shows us, as Emma Till shows us, um, they may not come home. Right. And so uh the talk, which has had a uh a sort of um discovery in the last couple of years over mainstream media. Now I sound like F over mainstream media, um, or a discovery by by white communities that there's a conversation that happens uh very much about how to interact with the police, because it's not just yes, sir, no, sir, it's keep your hands on you know uh 10 and 2. It is don't reach for anything unless you've asked for it and been specifically instructed. It is, you know, roll down your window, how do you speak to people, right? Your elocution in your Harvard sweatshirt is important, and so the talk is something that I didn't have with my children, but I also know that my youngest child got pulled over for uh you know speeding or something like that in their Volkswagen and called me hysterical because of the interaction, right? And you all have met my youngest child who is light-skinned and so may or may not need to have that conversation, but had never had that conversation and so was worried about being black and brown and pulled over by the police, yeah. And so, never having had that, I I was sort of coming to that question with I know the choice that I made, and it wasn't about gentle parenting, but it was about not burdening them with the anxieties that I could necessarily like, and so that's the question that I that I was really asking was is gentle parenting something that is a privilege, or is gentle parenting something that is necessary like in terms of developing those relationships? Maybe I didn't ask the question the right way.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And I'm thinking about you because like we joked about your mom a couple episodes ago about like you know, Mama Messius.

SPEAKER_05 16:30

Don't be joking about my mama, boy.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Just you know, she has that you always want to be around her, magnetic personality, holds court wherever she is, can I mean just so intuitive and social, and she's also got that like fuck around and find out thing, like for sure. And Pops Papa Messius also like that silent that silent sniper that he is, like you just like you can't BS him at all. So, but you know, you were raised by two very thoughtful, engaged, highly academic, and and you know, accomplished people. So, what what were they like with you? Were that would you call their version of parenting gentle parenting? No. Emphatically, no.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah. You have to talk to no questions.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

See, I'm terrible.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

I'm curious, I'm curious from from Louis Bet and Julie. Were when you were raised, would you define the way your parents raised you as gentle parenting, and how do you parent your own children relative to this this concept? Because it is a concept, which means right.

SPEAKER_07 17:34

Um I was not parented gently at all at any given point in time. I'm still not parented gently.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Okay, come on, Bronx, she's from the Bronx. Everything's gonna be from the Bronx.

SPEAKER_07 17:47

I'm like, when I heard you ask the question, LeBron, like my face was like, what? Like, no, man. My Carmen is never gonna be the gentle parent. Like, that's just not gonna happen. Um, so no, I was never parented gently. However, I I know that I parent differently than my mom um did with my own three children. Um I do actually, listening to the definition um what Reynaldo was talking, uh I do I do have boundaries with my children. Like I do believe in I do believe that boundaries are important, and I and I try to teach them about those things because I want them to have boundaries in their own relationships. I want them to understand that, you know, that even with their friendships, their romantic relationships with us, that, you know, you know, their bodies are important, they need to be respected, and you know, that I don't have a right to to disrespect them just like they don't have a right to disrespect me, right? So like I do, so that part of the definition about healthy boundaries, I can definitely attest to that I am trying to, you know, I have taught my kids throughout the years and as they get older. Um, but they were consequences in my household, they were rewards in my household. I I definitely don't agree with that definition. Um, we definitely communicated, and I definitely gave my oldest son the talk. Um, you know, uh as he was getting older and he wanted to drive and in and he was hearing the news, um, and now he is a driver. So um, and we have two drivers in the household now. So um, yeah, I think I'd parent differently. I don't know if it's gently or not, and I think there's a lot of communication in the way that I parent though, LeBron.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Okay. Julie?

SPEAKER_10 19:30

Um I this is tricky because I feel like I know this much about how, you know, a lot of people are parented. I only know what happened in my house. Uh yeah. There was um yelling. There, I got spanked as a little kid, for sure, for sure. Borsha. Um and um there was a lot of communication that was not open, we'll put it that way. So I would say a lack of communication. I learned very early that um if I didn't want my mom to have this big giant reaction that I just should not tell her things. Um and so I learned very early on, like, I don't tell her anything because that's not gonna go well. So I for my own kids, um I don't I don't I don't think I was ever grounded or anything, but I'm not exact I was not a bad kid. Like I snuck out to go like stand outside the 7-Eleven like one time. And it was only it was only because I was like, I'm 16 years old. I should sneak out at some point. That's what 16-year-olds do.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_10 20:55

But 14th in Montana, 7-Eleven, man.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

It was like north side 7-Eleven, even that's the north side 7-Eleven.

SPEAKER_10 21:01

Well, I was I'm not gonna go anywhere else. Are you kidding me? I'm a scared little white girl. Um so yeah, no, but parenting my own kids, I would say, um, I don't know. I, you know, John and I have talked a lot about the way we've each parented our kids, and I feel like I had a very unique situation in that I was a single mom with my two boys from when they were very, very, very, very little. Infant and three. I don't know. I mean, it it's just always been the three of us. And so we've always been kind of a team. I honestly I think I've got I've I don't think I've ever given my kids a consequence, but they're weird. They're weirdly good. And so I'll take that. I really have I really have not not, you know, I wouldn't call that gentle parenting though, because they know what is allowed and what is not allowed, what is okay and what's not okay. But I have always given them like as an Educator, I've always been in my classroom. There's no, I very rarely give consequences in my classroom as well, because it just doesn't build any trust, you know. And without trust, like my students are just gonna f around behind my back. And so, you know, they always get doovers, they always get another chance, they always get to try that again. Like, excuse me, what did you just say? Let's try that again. There's never like you're out, you're no, it goes down to outside, like I just don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_06 22:29

So when you say there are never any consequences, you mean there are never any punishments?

SPEAKER_10 22:36

Yes, yes. There are logical consequences, I would say, you know. Um like doing it over is a consequence. Hey, let's do that. Doing it over is a consequence, but also, you know, I there was one I had a student last year who um came from a pretty, pretty tough background, and he he made a really bad mistake. He's he said a couple things that were not good um that could got have gotten somebody else into a lot of trouble that was that and it was not true. And, you know, he because we had built this relationship, he was like, Yeah, I said it, you know, are you gonna call my mom? Are you gonna call my dad? And I'm like, well, I don't know, buddy, but you know, we're gonna have to go down and talk to, you know, the principal about this. But I'll go with you and I'll sit next to you and I'll be the person in your corner. But like, I can't promise that there won't be a consequence for this, you know. But like that's that's how I that's how I operate. Like, you know, my students know that I'm always, always on their side, even when I'm pissed off at them, I'm on their side.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

That's good. I'm glad you asked it because Antonio, I saw your head kind of like when when Julie said no consequences, your your educator head went, Well, what?

SPEAKER_08 23:51

Yeah, like Yeah, there are consequences. And are you part of it? I don't punish.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Yeah, yeah. But I want to hear Antonio, like what were you thinking when you went, huh? And then ask that question because you you're in the Scotland classroom.

SPEAKER_06 24:02

There are always consequences, right? Um, the consequence may be that the rest of the class doesn't trust you because they know somebody up and you didn't do anything about it. There may be consequence that um everybody decides that they're gonna be on their phones because you didn't take away the phone from the one person that you caught doing it. And so there are always consequences. And when people say consequence, um usually what they're talking about is punishment, and that's why I clarified by Jewish. Yeah, no, obviously, there are legal logical consequences. Um because I had somebody say to me the other day, um, as I was uh, you know, raising my voice at a child to tuck in their shirt, I've never heard someone be so loving and so disciplined at the same time. The kids know I'm on their side, and they know don't they do we can both acknowledge and and that tends to get the truth out of them about what they were doing, why they were doing it, and then we can have a conversation, and you're gonna have detention, and you're gonna come spend some time with the dean, and you maybe you have to be removed from the community for a little while and then have a meeting with the head of school before you come back. There are going to be consequences for your actions, those consequences.

SPEAKER_10 25:20

There's not anger, there's not anger about it, and that's the difference, I think, is that it's not the consequence that scares kids, it's the anger and the the outer.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

I'm not mad at you for doing it.

SPEAKER_10 25:31

Ah, yeah, no. You know, they're kids. I mean, I teach 11-year-olds, and like, God, they're just dumb. They do dumb stuff. And you're like, 11-year-olds. What are you thinking? You know, and they're like, I don't know. And they really don't. I just thought it was a good idea to drop that water bottle off the second story. Seemed cool. You know, they're just done. Yeah, it they're they're you can't mad at them.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Going back to the gentle parenting definition, even the boundaries thing you said, Louis Vett, you know, there there's in my family, uh, there was big evolution east coast to west coast. So my mom was from the Bronx, and then they moved to the suburbs, and then my dad was from Greenwich, Connecticut, like right over the border, not the fancy Greenwich. He was the they were the Polish immigrants that worked on the estates of the fancy people. And my grandma, my dad's, my dad's mom had no boundaries at all. Like zero. She came from a Polish community. They were immigrant, you know, her her parents came from Poland, and it was like, we are together, cousins, everybody, uh, your problem is my problem. If I'm getting a job, we're all getting a job. If I lost my job, we all lost our job. Like it was that mentality. And that's one of the reasons they that's one of the primary reasons we ended up in California, because my my sister was a little baby, and my mom was holding her, my older sister, and they lived in the house that my grandfather had built that shared a backyard with the other house that he had built, like with his hands. And my grandmother came and like ripped my sister out of my mom's arms and said, That's not how you hold a baby, this is how you hold a baby. And it was like, you know, in-laws already is a thing, but the just the idea of no boundaries. And what I find is that folks, you know, at some point everybody was that way. At some point in everyone's culture and history, everybody's family was living together, and then society changed. And let's face it, a lot of it, a lot of whiteness is the independence. Like, I'm no, we're not gonna, I'm gonna be on my own, you're over there, I'm over here. And there's a weird, like, there's no perfect way to do it, but my mom and dad were like, we got to get out of here. We need our own space. And a lot of things played into that, was the only thing, but that's one of the reasons they came out, was it's like we need some boundaries. And and my mom became a proponent of she was kind of she's academic, she's very gentle in her nature, and she's she's it reminds me a lot of even both E Loubet and and Julie, where she she evolved in her parenting. And um, I guess I guess where I'm going with all this is like this. I think the goal of gentle parenting was to remove the just pure, heavy-handed, hardcore, like you just do what I say no matter what, obey, obey, obey, you're gonna get spanked or not. Yeah, compliance, and let's actually be intelligent about it. But the problem is that it actually flipped where you now you're expecting the kid to be the adult all the time, and the and the adult gets to be the one like worrying and worrying, and what about this? And then instead of being like, what you all are describing in the classroom, the three of you, is gentle parenting at its best, gentle teaching at his best, meaning like, I'm gonna be the grown-up here. Oh, 11-year-old, you thought it would be funny to drop that water off the second floor. I'm an adult, I've seen this happen a jillion times. This is your first time doing this, so I'm gonna walk you through what happens next. I'm gonna be the adult, you're gonna be the kid. But a lot of times that's not we're we're like talking to 11-year-olds as if they should be 31. You can't reason with them. You're not you're not showing them how the world works by treating them like a 31-year-old. That's the difference, right?

SPEAKER_07 29:08

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like you just I I teach seventh graders and they're 12 and they're just as, you know, just as they are. Just as superior, just as supremely enjoyable, uh, just as like I'm always making like you know, I I teach English, so like when the kids have to handwrite something and I say, listen, to all of you creative spellers out there, right? Instead of saying they're bad spellers, I'm like, to all the creative spellers out there, and then they laugh and then they figure out, like, oh, you're talking, you you basically mean the bad spellers. I'm like, no, no, no, the creative spellers, you just have a different way of spelling the word, and that's okay, as long as I can somewhat make out what you're saying, but I'll correct it for you a little bit. But like, I think um, I think, you know, uh Renaldo's right too. It's like, uh, I think my teaching style is very similar. It's like, look, I I can I prov I think I provide a really inclusive and and nurturing environment in the classroom, but my kids know their my boundaries and they know what my standards are, and they know they know when they've they've crossed a line when they see my behavior change. And I tell them, I was like, look, I could be this kind of teacher all day, every day, but there's a whole other teacher that you can completely resurrect right now, and I don't think you want that, but that that is gonna come on you. Like you're gonna play a role on whether or not you see that side of me or not.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

So in the context, we're talking, we're talking about private schools, right? Or independent schools, y'all call them. All three of you are in independent schools. No, yeah, no, I'm not a school. So you're in a real school. Okay, I'm just checking because the language y'all use.

SPEAKER_08 30:50

I'm in a real school, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

You're in a real school, in a real world.

SPEAKER_06 30:55

So, first of all, I'm done with you, Harvard. I don't want to hear shit about independent schools from the hardest.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

I've taught in them for 15 years, bro.

SPEAKER_06 31:02

We've all taught in them, that wasn't my point. Oh, creative spellers. And I was like, black people and names. And I was like, the creative spelling or the owning of language and the expression of it in the written form. I wanted to go there. But those are the two things that you made me think of.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah. Speaking of creative spelling, LeBron, we all as my friend Dorothea calls me Libron. Well, that's what Siri calls you in the three for the founders uh chat. Libron has said, I'm like that. Libron. Like, who's that?

SPEAKER_06 31:34

So you notice there are preponderance of educators on this podcast. And so we were gonna have a conversation about what is the purpose of education, and how does what's happening in our climate today, right, in the world today, how does our children being pulled out of school or kept out of school? How does the whitewashing of American history? I'm just going off on my own little thing right now, so you all can stop me anytime you want to. How do these things impact the delivery of education, right? The learning that's going on in our rooms, and how are we feeling about that? And so I will throw out this second first question. Um what is the purpose of education?

SPEAKER_10 32:25

Um I mean, in an ideal world, I think it is to um open the eyes of developing future adults, um, and to, you know, teach them all of the skills that they need in order to think critically. Um I I reading and writing is a is a huge part of that. Math, I would say, even though I'm a math teacher, less so, um, unless you want to go into specific fields related to math. But I feel like how you communicate and the way that you think and how you approach problems um is is the core of education. And especially I would say in early education, um, when the stakes are a lot lower, is where I feel like the kids are prime for um really diving into some of these bigger topics of you know, DEI, anti-racism, um, you know, social justice, all of those things. Like nobody understands equity and fairness better than an 11-year-old. Power, you know, and so and so these are concepts that they're like open and ready for. And so um I just kind of go for it. And you know, so far so good.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

But you know, Jill, you're like just innately because they're 10, 11, the world hasn't necessarily beat it out of them yet. Like the what this idea of like the the fairness thing. Can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_10 34:06

Just um I mean, we talk a lot about identity and we talk a lot, like we've been talking a lot about immigration and what's been happening on our streets in Los Angeles and in Santa Monica as recently as last Friday out in front of Gilbert's.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Um Gilbert's a lane deal?

SPEAKER_10 34:26

Yep, on Pico and 26th. Yeah. Um, and several people from our community were taken and the kids know about it. And, you know, my kids of color definitely know about it. And if my white kids don't know about it, then it's my job to tell my white kids about it and um and to explain what's happening and why. Thankfully, I I work with a group of students this year in particular whose parents are very heavily left-leaning, which means that they already are talking to their kids about a lot of this stuff. And so when I say, like, why do you think, why do you think this is happening? A couple of my white kids are very, very vocal in saying, like, because they're profiled for the way they look, for the color of their skin. They're just profiled that way. And I don't think they use the word profile, but you know, that's that's what they're saying. And so I feel like these are conversations that if I can just open up the door, other students can then start asking questions, and then all I'm doing is answering questions, which I am never gonna not do.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 35:38

Um I I think for me, the I can only answer that question of like, why, how do I teach and what do I bring into the classroom, right? Like what's my what's my approach? And as an English teacher and a writer, I I feel like my purpose in educating my students is to teach them about the economics of their language. I really want them to really understand the value of their words and for them to know that they have weight and they have value, and they need to be, they need to be very methodical and intentional about the words that they choose because they can really have power and to either hurt an individual or they can uplift an individual. So I always ask my students, think about the economics of your language right now. Um, there's no problem in taking a beat and taking a pause before you speak or you start writing something down. I think there's value in being still for a second. I think that's something important as that they get older, that they don't always have to like say the first thing that comes out of their mouths. Like it's okay to like take a minute about it. Um I also, you know, I really, you know, kind of going along with what Julie said, I really hope that they get what they get out of my classroom is to be critical thinkers and to be independent thinkers. I think it's really important that they think for themselves, that they do the research. Um something that I reiterate to my students a lot is like, look, I don't have to agree with you. I don't, I don't want you believing that you have to regurgitate what you think I want to hear. This is not the purpose of my classroom. I am a facilitator of information. I don't, I even when I was teaching college students, I didn't like the word professor. I didn't really like that because there is this hierarchy that is established right away in a classroom. And what I try to tell them is said, look, I am a facilitator of information. What that means is right now I just happen to have more information than you do. As you get older, this will probably even out a bit more. So I'm facilitating and I'm providing you what I know. Um, but that doesn't make me the end all and be all. So again, I try to like not make this a hierarchy in my classroom as much as possible. Like I know walking in, I already have a power and a privilege over them. So I try to really, you know, dispel that as much as possible so that my students know that their intake, we're reading poems right now, and I really want them to feel that whatever their interpretations are hold just as much value as my interpretations, right? I want them to feel that. And so, um, and to think for themselves and to do the research and to and to know what that looks like these days. That sometimes you look, you have to look at sources three, four, five different times, right? You have to be very careful these days of what you read and not everything that you read is is true. So, and to then come to their own conclusions, but making sure that they come to their own conclusions after doing all this research of the facts, not of other people's opinions or whatever they post online. So, uh, and I'm pretty transparent about that. So I hope that that's you know, that's kind of the the approach I take to my educational process.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Since you're asking about, you said what is the purpose of education?

SPEAKER_06 38:51

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

So I appreciate um Louis Bet and Julie giving a granular definition in terms of the context of their classroom. I've had to write this paper twice, and it's the hardest paper I have to write. So I want to take it back to a 30,000-foot view in terms of the purpose of education. I think there's multiple. I think general public school education is about indoctrination and conformity. They want you everyone to believe a certain narrative, which then supports certain dominant structures, and it's baked into how schools are run, how they're funded. So that's one purpose, like indoctrination and to to make everybody sort of think the same general way. Uh having taught in the independent school, can I yes Can I ask you the question?

SPEAKER_06 39:47

Think the same general way or think the same general thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 39:54

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

No, I just I wanted to. Yeah, I was I would say both yes to both of those. In my experience of 15 years teaching at independent schools, the purpose of education is to build self-confidence, leadership skills, and to provide opportunity and access at the next level. So those students are raised to be self-confident, whether they deserve to be or not. They are given access to opportunities, resources that in my experience public school students are not. So that's sort of the the purpose from my experience at independent schools. Leadership, industry, uh more critical thinking. And then in my 15 years of coaching over 2,000 teachers in public schools, it's about having people conform to ways of doing labor for the people in independent schools who are leading them, is sort of the the dichotomy. And so it's it's less about thinking, critical thinking, about choice in public school, and more about conformity from my experience. So others may have different experiences, but I'm just sharing those two lenses from my conversation.

SPEAKER_10 41:17

I think that's true. And I feel like um there are a lot of public school teachers who are really trying to push back on that, and it's like trying to, you know, stop a tidal wave with, you know, a hairdryer. Like it's just it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_10 41:34

Um and so I think that's the the structure of public schools was never meant to enlighten the masses. The structure of public schools is set up to create a workforce and so a menial workforce. And yes, and the systems and the schedules and the way that the schools are run are inherently racist. I'll just say. I feel like um it's not set up for children of color at all. Um and so as educators, we're constantly trying in public schools, we're constantly trying to figure out ways to disrupt that. Um and and and and sometimes it's just not possible because you know, I have this much power. And there are a thousand institutional reasons why we can't do this or we can't do that. And some of it's budgetary, and some of it's just we we we can't do that.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Right. Let me just give I'm gonna let John speak. I just want to give one quick example of the two differences. So an independent school, I was able to choose my curricular materials, I was able to create my own projects, and I moved at my own pace. Here, for example, in Stockton, where I'm coaching teachers, their biggest challenge is the district says everyone is using the same curricular material. And we have a pacing guy, so everyone in the district needs to be on the same page every single day. So I'm like, is this a democracy or is this communism? So if each of us taught, we would teach at a different thing.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

Yeah, that's that's that's not realistic.

SPEAKER_10 43:29

That's not real. I mean, it I and and it's it's troubling that there's such a such a difference between public school districts because that is not some of that's true for Santa Monica, but most of that is not. So unfortunately, uh and again, like Santa Monica is a very privileged community. So um we definitely have our our

SPEAKER_01 44:00

ability to do things differently things differently yeah you're definitely an upper public school district so John listening to us educators I'm curious what is your your take the fact is you all are indoctrinating our children like you are yes properly and like there's there's no we you all know there's no one right way to do it but there's so many wrong ways to do it and I wanted to know like how you all feel the responsibility and and I know indoctrination is a strong word maybe maybe indoctrination is more I have a very specific agenda that I want you to you know swallow no matter who you are like that's not what I'm saying. Maybe the better word is conditioning. You all are conditioning our children and you're doing it well and healthily and and intelligently and thoughtfully so that's really good. Antonio because you know and I was I'm my dad was a teacher mom was a teacher my sister's a teacher in a way I teach adults and just something different but so I I just esteem the role of teaching in in so many different ways. But the idea that you're conditioning our children properly and I what I was thinking of was that the heinous awful indoctrination that's happening right now by removing you know certain elements of educating and and changing what you can and can't talk about in the classroom. And when I hear a Stephen Miller so I hate bringing him up but since we're talking Santa Monica and he went to our high school Julie which is one of the worst truths that I've discovered recently when he says things like we're going to teach our children to love this country the hypocrisy in in at once saying you shouldn't be indoctrinating our children and then on the in the same breath going we're going to indoctrinate our children. Like and you all are you're yeah you know what go because I feel like you all are on that razor's edge all day like I'm gonna these they're impressionable. I'm gonna leave my impression on these kids.

SPEAKER_10 45:51

I am indoctrinating children I will say it I mean I feel like every day at this time in our history in our political moment they are indoctrinating children and I know my teaching partner and I are working very hard to counter that and we are straight up indoctrinating one of the questions that Antonio had in the chat in the in the group text was about you know do you say you know what are the words that you you say I I say all of those words I will not mention Trump. I will not say that man by name but everybody knows who I'm talking about. It's not Voldemort I will say no but I will say the president but I won't use his name because for whatever reason I mean and and I've been doing this for many many years and you know beyond beyond you know 2016 um I have found that kids who come from families who voted for him immediately throw up a roadblock the minute I use his name as in like I'm no longer oh she's anti-Trump so I'm not gonna listen to her anymore. So I don't use that because I don't want any roadblocks right and and and really the truth of what I'm saying is true for any president. Not, you know, not just that particular one. And so we talk a lot about you know things that are happening in the news and I will say the president but I won't I won't call him by name and not because he's Voldemort but simply because as soon as you throw his name out it becomes political and I have to that is like John said I am walking razor Z. It changes the dialogue.

SPEAKER_06 47:44

But the interesting piece of that and and and I'm not telling you how to run your classroom obviously like I I was I too was not saying his name and then I was like you know what I refuse to allow this to have the same power as the N-word. I refuse to allow right and and I and I bring out Voldemort only because right JK Rowling despite her ridiculousness as a person is has created a world in which it's easy to hold up a mirror. And so I used to not say Trump I used to not I I would do the same thing the president the person in the Oval Office etc the person who was elected and then I was like I refuse to dance around this because I'm going to hold him accountable as the head of the temple. There's a point at which language in our conversation is important and what we're transmitting and so to to give it that reverence or importance or sacredness because that's the one thing I'm not going to say in use it with a value for me I refuse to give it that power in the spaces that I walk in to LeBron's point. I still think it's real school but it's independent right in those spaces I'm not going to any longer give it that power and I and and I say that understanding where you're coming from with that.

SPEAKER_10 49:15

I I wonder too if I taught you know Louis Vett's seventh graders if I if it would be different you know the fact that these are 11 year olds and this is really the first let's be honest the first real courageous hard conversations that they're being expected to have um and knowing that a lot of times kids go home and self-report to parents um just being mindful of that and and really in truly it's not necessarily to give him more power it's just to be able to keep that conversation going.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Yeah totally comes out and the balance you strike so Louis but you're gonna talk I was just gonna say that like a lot of what's in your head is the parents that's what that's an interesting thing that as someone who doesn't classroom teach that that's another filter you have to have in your head when you're talking to your kids is yeah what what what parental reaction could or will would there be based on what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_07 50:14

Especially if you're very specifically trying to get them thinking about something indoctrinate children yes yes Louis Vet you were about to say something um just to answer the question I mean that Julie brought up because it was in the chat uh about I think for me I because I I can create my own curriculum to a certain extent um we you know where I'm at I it's interesting like we yes we choose the books but we're all teaching the same books in the department and we all have to teach teach the books in a certain timeline as well. So there's a little bit of conformity interesting enough but um how we teach the text is kind of a little bit more of an individual choice but I think for me the way that I teach a text in in comparison to the way a colleague of mine will teach the text will be very different because of the things that I will bring up. I'm very intentional about the poetry that I teach in my classic right now we're doing poetry in eighth grade and I got to choose the poems and best believe I chose poems of all contemporary living poets. There's no dead white guys in my curriculum. And I was very much and I said that out loud to my colleagues because I was create I because I created the curriculum and I said everybody that's on this list is a is a living breathing poet and actually many of them are from Southern California right here from LA so if the kids ever get curious or they want to hear this poet live and in person they most likely can do that sometime this weekend if they wanted to um and so it's been a really cool experience to be able to have these conversations and the and and the curriculum is specific about names like the whole entire care the whole two weeks we've been discussing the power of our names and the legacy of our names and looking at you know F. Douglas Brown's poem about Frederick Douglass and why he was named after Frederick Douglass. Right? And so and looking at Teresa Maychuk today we looked at Teresa Maychuk who's a Vietnamese refugee and what it was like for her to go through all these different iterations of her name and coming in from Vietnam and I even brought up the fact that you know when I write when I read with Teresa she doesn't call it the Vietnam War she calls it the American War. The kids were like interesting and they were like well think about that for a second I go why do you think that she calls it the American War and not the Vietnam War let me just ask let me just put that out there. And right away a kid said it's like because the Americans went to her country to fight right as I so this is an interesting so this is this is this is for me and I said it's like the first time I read with Teresa and I heard her call it the American War it was a teaching moment for me on perspective on perspective. We call it the Vietnam War they'll call it the American War because this is about perspective. So then I'm like all right let's read her poem now right so like so then we read her poem and we had this amazing beautiful conversation about assimilation and having to change our names and and identity politics right and these are with these are eighth graders. So you know I felt like we had this amazing conversation and maybe certain words weren't said um but I talk about language I talk about assimilation I talk about these expectations of having to leave your country how uh we talk about displacement a lot right and so um last year I talked about privilege on a regular basis and I said you know let's look at this text and let's look at this one particular passage about this girl who's blonde and blue eyed what is she saying here and basically somebody was like oh she's basically saying that because what she looks like she can navigate this world easily and I'm like boom right so she's talking about how the color of her skin gives her privilege. So let's talk about privilege. Let's talk about how everybody here has privilege linguistic privileges and you know anyway so um and that's a that's the way that I teach in my classroom and that is different than the way my colleagues teach the same text. And so I I I really like the conversations that I get to have in with my seventh and eighth graders um because I you know without mentioning his name I don't really like mentioning his name either um and I don't um I I like to at least engage with them and have them think about the world that they're in right now and and what their role is even if it's a small role as a as a seventh and eighth grader, right? Like um because they're gonna be of a voting age in a few years, right? So I think to a certain extent teaching English literature is an opportunity to talk about citizenship and what is that going to look like for them. And so uh I like to I like to stoke the fires and at least in in and asking questions a ton of questions to them like well what do you think about privilege? What do you think about displacement? What do you think about we talked about home versus unhoused last year. I had the kids look at the word homeless and say we don't say homeless anymore. We say unhoused and they're like why is that and I'm like well because you don't think the person who who lives on the street in a tent doesn't feel like they have home in their heart it's because they don't have a house. That's it's a very so you know now they say unhoused when they talk to me. They're like oh yeah the unhoused situation in LA so again that's how I think I engage in my classroom and that's why I think when you ask the question about what do I say, what words what I don't say I I am intentional methodical but I I think I do a pretty good job of still having these tough conversations with them whether they realize it or not that that maybe like will creep up on them in a couple of years right well and and the truth is that we are growing adults that that's literally our job is to grow adults and you know we water them and we water them and we'll water them but like um I'm teaching that book uh how the word is passed by Clint Smith.

SPEAKER_06 56:01

Oh did you get the Young Readers edition?

SPEAKER_10 56:04

Yeah that's the one I'm teaching and so the first chapter or the first section is Thomas Jefferson and Monticello and the you know the Clint goes on a tour and and at the very end of the chapter there's this you know they're out by the you know enslaved folks cabins and um there's this white woman walking her two daughters down and you know she kind of glances in at the cabin and you know says how how would you guys like to live there and the girls were like no and they like ran off. And I you know it's just a small moment but I paused and asked the students like let's just assume generosity here of the mom like wanting to like point out to her daughters like let's just give her the benefit of the doubt but like what do you think of the question that she asked her girls and they were like it was a stupid question right like nobody wants to live there. What how would you like to live there? Um nobody wants to live there and so we had a whole conversation about like okay you're the parent now what questions would you ask to get your kids thinking about what it is you want them to know about this so first we've got to back it up what do you want your kids to know about this now let's start reframing like how could that mother have asked that question? What choices could she have made? What could she have done? And it was a really rich conversation with 11 year olds you know this work can definitely be done at 11 years old but you know if you have the frame of mind that we are growing adults we're growing readers we're growing writers we're growing mathematicians all of these things are all in development right um and so anytime you can stop and any text not just that one and have a rich conversation like Louis Vet was talking about or you know there's so many opportunities for you to point out um simply by identifying the lens that you know you want them looking through what is so threatening to the to the other side of what you all the both of you just described because in a way what you're doing is subversive meaning and it's interesting because Julie public school Louis Vet independent school that but both of you are finding your way to okay private school thank you is that what we're going with like what it I didn't know when this was can we just stick with it so stick with it so here's the thing right when we talk about rebranding private schools rebranded themselves as independent schools because independence is a good thing everybody wants to be independent everybody wants to be on their own i i my career has been in independent schools and yet the reality is they're private schools they're elite they're expensive they're exclusive exclusive they're exclusive you can kick anybody out who doesn't do what you want them to do actually not anybody depends on the country there you go right yeah that's what I mean but point being right they're not public schools and so like one of the questions I asked was what's it like being in an independent school versus what's it like being in a state run school right and and that conversation seems to be like it's sort of similar. It's not that different um but again I'll like to say uh Santa Monica is a very privileged district we're not rich let me tell you if you read any paper Santa Monica is running itself into the ground financially um however because they have low-cost housing that costs$1.5 million million dollar low cost housing right we have so much in property taxes that's gonna come in any minute now as soon as they can rent out those$12,000 units right above the Lincoln car wash oh my God as a child as a child of rent control I am very familiar with this whole flight anyway um you know we have a we have a great amount of freedom you know also I we do have adopted textbooks we do have adopted programs or whatever but like we don't really use them.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Well and that's we're not held accountable for that well Julie you made a choice with the Clint Smith book and and and you had that choice within the confines of a public state run school and that that has that says everything about your tenure and your confidence and your reputation you're like you know what I'm gonna do what I think is best. 28 years come at me yeah in a way and then Louis Vet you've got an institutional freedom meaning developing your curriculum but still you made your choice and you and you made the choice that you just described. And in both cases what you're doing is so beautiful and I mean that the kind of conversations you're having through the lens of poetry or through the lens of history whatever it is is precisely what healthy humans should be doing at those ages. And I wonder what is so subversive about this? Why is this so scary to the other side?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:23

Do they just not want independent thinkers would they rather just some say America great yay Pledge of allegiance what about it is it yes go ahead I think that that's exactly what it is I think that the other side is trying to definitely like quell this idea of of creativity too right like as an artist I see that a lot there's a lot of censorship going on obviously um a lot of my friends' books cannot be sold at bookstores anymore you know they can't be bought and I see that happening to my own editor right like you know he his books have been banned in several states at this point it's this this really trying to um uh put out you know to extinguish creativity and you know creative thinking independent thinking and to kind of go really quickly go back to Renaldo you asked me the the question about is it about the content or expression and just to clarify for me yes I want them to be able to express themselves and yes they're allowed to have their opinions but with me I say okay that's your great that's your opinion now you have to support it. Give me the evidence for this opinion and also take that evidence and then put it in in in a in an essay where like it flows and there's some structure and there's cohesiveness and you know I can again you can have lovely things I tell them all the time that you can get up in your little soapbox and say lovely things but if you have nothing to provide evidence for that if there's no backing of like why you think that then really you wasted my time. And so like I need you to be able to support yourself with evidence and even and if you do that well if you do the research and you you know you really put some effort into this and you put some sweat and I still don't on a on a geeky level still don't agree with you that's okay. Like if on a little geeky side level I'm like yeah you know what I still don't think that that's a good character you know and call it a day but I can respect that you came to the to the table with your paper and your opinions and you had the evidence and you had again the structure was there I can still respect that and be able to grade it objectively and give you an A or whatever the case may be. So it's about content and expression for me. It's even even when they have discussions in the classroom like they just can't in my classroom you just can't give your opinion and call it a day I'm gonna say well where in the poem does it say that can you show me the line can you tell me what stanza is that in and they you know and that really teaches them how to support themselves in this world right like if you're gonna say something back it up you know back that up just like Juvena said you know but like um okay okay right but I think that yeah I think I think that yeah I think to answer your question John yes that's what the other side wants it really is trying to distinguish creativity of all on all levels creative thinking creative you know creating something brand new creative like it just that's what they want and I don't know and and for me this is my own little form of protest right like this is my own revolution in my classroom and it's important for me to for me to show up every day and teach these kids who don't look like me and not just even like physically or like you know color of my skin but I'm a woman of color who did not grow up with the same socioeconomic situation that they did. And I don't hide that from them either I tell them I'm like I grew up in food stamps. Yes I I I had this is what I ate for dinner sometimes because that's all there was um and I and I'm very aware of of of of what I look like and who I am and I show up every day with that kind of again attitude of this is my own little private revolution right now. Because if I can if I can stir if I can stir the minds of these 14 kids you know 14 14 14 kids that's where the difference comes out now yeah this is what four to five years old or a total of 14 kids there's 14 15 kids in my classroom at a time so I have like you know sections and no section is bigger than like I kid you not this year the the biggest section I have is 16 kids. So um and anyway so it's important for me like it really is important for me to show up every day and and really push them a little bit and and make them think about the world especially you live in Southern California you you drive in your cars you look around we have a huge unhouse situation going on and it keeps growing and we have housing crisis and the fires obviously did not help. So again we need to examine that and discuss that in some way shape or form in this classroom whether it's in a poem or in a short story or in this novel about refugees like we're gonna talk about displacement and so and how how do you how do you connect with that and And and if you don't connect with that directly, what's your role in trying to alleviate that or mitigate that for your neighbor? Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:12

I think for me, John, I just want to simplify it really, you know, how what are they so afraid of? Um, you know, a student asked me yesterday, um, why were the enslaved people um not allowed to learn how to read or write? And and we had a whole discussion about because that's how you exert power over other people. You make sure that you have people who are less educated than you so that they don't know what it is that you're actually doing to them. And I I believe that's exactly I don't think they're afraid at all. I I don't think they're afraid of any of this stuff. I think what they want is an uneducated public so that they can exert the power that they want to exert. Um, it has absolutely nothing to do with fear on their part, and everything to do with this is how you grab power by keeping people down, oppressed, and uneducated.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:18

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

SPEAKER_10 1:07:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:24

Those who erase the past plan to repeat it. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:29

I mean, Julie, you're absolutely right. I when I um when I teach uh Animal Farm by George Orwell, um, one of the the that you know, as we're reading, as we, you know, it's a short text, but I tell the kids, we learn about the word indoctrination there. I bring a plutocracy and oligarchies intentionally on the board. I said, let's look at the definition of plutocracy and oligarchy. And I said, you know, why does Napoleon um why does Napoleon intentionally, you know, doesn't teach the rest of the animals how to like, he doesn't want to educate them. Why does he like why is he only teaching the youth to be basically like it's like Hitler youth, right? So I said, why does, you know, and and you know, and I write on the board, it's because education is power. Like if you take away education, if you if you can control the education, you can control the people.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok, or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke. So we'll see. I hate you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

Paige.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Oh my God. We need the t-shirt so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

Oh my god. Hey, speaking of which, man, I'm I don't know what you're gonna do with your four dollars and thirty-three cents. I'm gonna supersize that happy meal, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:32

That's why I had to that's why I had to share it with you. Oh my god, you hit. I didn't want anybody think I was keeping it from you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

No, man, you you made sure to spread the wealth. You did that long condition, baby. I appreciate it.