Ep. 28 — Renaming the World, One Syllable at a Time

The Power and Politics of What We’re Called
December 15, 2025 • 1 hour, 19 minutes

On this episode, Three for the Founders are taking on a single idea—names—and stretching it across culture, politics, history, comedy, and the intimate corners of family life.

Reynaldo Antonio Macias, Lybroan James, and Jon Augustine open with the spark: pop culture and present-day politics giving them déjà vu. Succession’s slime, a debate-night “empathetic” performance from J.D. Vance, and the Hillbilly Elegy-to-DC pipeline all raise the same question: How much of identity is real, and how much is branding? From there, the episode shifts into something deeper—and a lot more personal.

Lybroan tells the now-legendary Nike Town story, recalls decades of bureaucratic friction over his name, and tracks the three-generation lineage of “Lybroan.” Antonio walks through his own evolution from “Antonio” to “Tony” to “Reynaldo,” mapping how school, family, culture, and professionalism each tried to rename him. Jon traces Ellis Island edits, the tale behind “JON without the H,” and the family threads behind his kids’ names.

Together, they explore why Black naming traditions are creative, historical, and political—born from a legacy where Black people were once denied literacy, self-definition, and even the right to name their own children. They unpack patriarchy in surname traditions, the emotional calculus of naming kids, the chaos and comedy of names that sound gentle versus names that clap like a snare drum, and the everyday politics of mispronunciation—from Kamala to Zohran Mamdani to your kid’s classroom roll sheet.

Along the way, they drop a Rams-game field trip story about gentle authority, salute students, supporters, and producers (Sabah James, Daniela Macías, Wil Gatuda), and put out the ongoing call: Popeye’s, let’s talk sponsorship—preferably live from the Underground Station at Tower of London.

The episode closes with a promise: this was just part one. Math names, Middle Eastern names, and a full decolonization of credit—yes, including Lybroan’s push to rebrand the Egyptian theorem—are coming next.

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi. Reynaldo Antonio Macillas here. I'm a teacher, educator, lifelong learner, somebody who enjoys thinking about things and then talking about things. Sometimes writing about things, although I talk about writing more than I actually write.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

And hello. My name is LeBron James, a mathematician, futurist, and a person who likes to solve problems, especially when it comes to race in America.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

My name is John Augustine. I am a communications consultant, an executive coach. I'm a musician. I'm a white dude in a black fraternity. And I am obsessed with communicating and getting people to be understood and finding a more diverse way of moving forward together.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

We've been having conversations about all of these things and more for the past 30 years. And you are invited to join us, taking our friendship global. 22 countries now, Finland and Spain, jumping in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

We're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Give me a high five. Alright, cut and print. Beautiful guys. Dynomite. Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years. And now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Let's go. I'm also being judged by my seatmates, like you see how woke I am, right? And then I wait for them to go to sleep and then I change it and watch like succession or something.

unknown 2:01

Friends?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Never friends. It's usually succession. I love succession. Dude, dude, you talk about drippy, nasty, probably what actually happens kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Yeah, probably what happens for sure. I love that show. Have you seen any of it, Antonio?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

I tried to watch the first episode and didn't care. Really? I thought you would have got into succession. I think if I had given it, you know, two or three episodes.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, two. Yeah, you didn't give it enough.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It's slimy as f, man. I mean, that's part of it. There's I'm watching it on airplanes occasionally now, would and this would be my second go-around because I think it's part of the Delta Airlines offerings. Yeah, great. Oh, yeah. And I'm watching it a second time, and I'm now seeing stuff and I'm piecing it together, which is cool. But the first time I remember getting three or four episodes in and thinking, there is not a single redeemable character. Yes. There's not a single person that represents anyone good. Like good old uh Greg Tall Greg. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And Greg who's like, well, you know, uh, from a business acumen perspective, I don't know if it would really be prudent uh to, you know, the tall guy like he comes in all innocent, but man, once he gets a taste of that money, man, he ooh, I mean, and I guess that's talking to someone about how like that's what makes it good.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

He reminds me of who's the president, not the president, who's the vice president, the dude married to the Indian lady, JD Vance Vance. He reminds me of JD Vance, he's such a JD Vance dude.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah, so JD Vance wrote Hillbilly Elogy.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yes. Have you seen the movie?

SPEAKER_02 3:39

I've seen it. Wait, they made a movie out of it? Yes, it's a movie. They made a movie out of it. It's got Glenn Close, it's got Amy Adams. Um and when I watched it, I was like, damn, white folks have it hard in America.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

So this movie was made before he had political aspirations. It was just like based on.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Yeah, yeah, he he so he pimped out some version of his family story and wrote the book, and then the book got options and they made a movie. And when they made the movie shortly thereafter is when he went from criticizing Donald Trump to wearing knee pads, and then he ended up as vice president. There are people, John, when we were talking about uh assassination, and some people said, Oh, you know, if only that dude had shot one inch to the left. If Donald Trump dies, JD Vance is gonna be president of the United States.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

And you want to talk about slimy, I mean he's gonna fall apart as president to JD Vance, and that's saying something.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

I think that's why they picked him.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yep. He's saying nobody gonna kill me now. Really? Oh man, he's yeah. He's that character, John. He's that character you just talked about. He's Greg, he'd like come across all innocent, but then innocent, wimpy, and then gets a taste of power and will do anything. It's kind of like that passive aggressive, he's like a male Karen, like just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, I hate a Marin. Marin. Merman. Um the vice presidential debate against Tim Waltz, but JD Vance had those moments when he said, Oh, I didn't know that happened to your family. There was something that Tim Waltz talked about that happened. He he had a and JD, I I was caught up in his his empathy in that moment. Like, oh, he seems like a decent guy. Like he seems like a uh he's got a heart. He got me in that moment. I was like, Oh, this is how susceptible we are to yeah, yeah. He's snake, he's snaky like that. Charlatan.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Thank you. He is exact, he's a charlatan. You are the word guy, he's a charlatan. Did you just name him?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Oh, LeBron coming up with I have my Antonio moments, dude.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

My Antonio moments, dude. Trust me.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yes, you they don't come as quick as his, baby.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Do they come pretty quickly?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

We got to talk about this tonight, LeBron, because I as we're as I was preparing thoughts, I thought, we need to get a little bit more about your name, dude, and how you've had to deal with this. Like, when was the tipping point for you? When did it happen? When did LeBron James become a problem for you? Do you remember 22 years ago, four months and six days ago, roughly?

SPEAKER_03 6:41

My name became a problem. Oh, did it become a problem, LeBron? Tell him the Nike store story. All right, so quickly, I was teaching at the Buckley School in Sherman Oaks, and my best buddy co-teacher Ed Rains, the English teacher, was from Cleveland, Ohio. And he comes in one day and just goes, There's this kid, dude. He's like in high school, and he's gonna be like an NBA star, and he's got your crazy name. His name is LeBron James. I said, dude, you're lying. No one has my crazy name. First of all, I couldn't get into UCLA because they thought I was James LeBron, so they had my student ID mixed up and I couldn't even register.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yes. No, they had your name backwards.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Because my whole life James LeBron. James is a first name. LeBron is weird, and it's a last name. So you can't be LeBron James. You're James LeBron. So that was until high school. Oh my gosh. So then finally I find out LeBron's coming out, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna have my own shoes. I'm gonna have my own sweatsuits. So I go to the Nike town in Beverly Hills, and I go in there and I get everything. Two, three sweatsuits, shoes, socks, toenail clippers with the LJ on it. You name it. I got it all. So I go up to the counter, and the lady's like, that'll be$537, please. I said, Well, would you make LeBron James pay for this? She goes, Oh, of course. You didn't give it to him for free. I said, Hold on a second. Pulled up my ID. She goes, Oh my God, your name is LeBron James. And then the manager comes over. I said, Hey, she told me if my name is LeBron James, I'd get it for free. And he looked at her like, you he goes, sir, we have to honor what our employees say. Because if this was the Inglewood one, they said, fool, get pay this thing, get out of here.

unknown 8:25

Shit.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

So he gave it to me and said, Please never come back to our store again. So I got a$537 worth of free LeBron James gear. I loved it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

One time. One time.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

And that brings us to the power of names.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Thank you very much for joining us here on Three for the Founders, where today we have a topic. Today we're going to stay on target. Today we're going to be unbranded because we don't do any of those things. Thank you for joining us on our adventure.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Listen, Antonio, you're like that girl working at the Beverly Hills Nike store right now making promises. You can't keep you can't say we're going to stay on target.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Well, luckily it's a moving target, so we'll I think we'll be okay. Yes, seriously.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

That's hilarious. Hey, before we jump into this, and I got questions and I got answers, but again, want to shout out our producers. Yes. They be putting it down. Uh Sabah James, Daniela Macias. We had a long conversation yesterday. They were impressed with our philosophical bent as we alluded to some of the things that you all have already heard. I also want to give a shout out to our uh assistant. He be putting stuff down and making sure that our socials being correct. Broke. Shouting him out. I also wanted uh give a shout out to my boy Manny. Uh he comes with a little conversation about what we were doing and and how he's appreciating uh the show. Um uh Juliana always she's now parceling it out because it was problemetic that we were um going every other week. So she's she's breaking it up and listening to it as she as she goes. Um the number one invaluable in a shipwreck, Jillian, always got the gear, always spreading the word. Right, Jillian, thank you. Shout out to Popeye's Fried Chicken. We're waiting for the sponsorship.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yes, yes, two piece in a biscuit at at the Underground Station off London or Tower of London.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

I mean, if if they want us to go and do a live show in front of that Popeyes, uh we're here.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

One of the better American exports of all time.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yes, right, we'll go. Um, but I just had to shout those people out. Uh I'm sure there's some other shout-outs that'll occur to me as we get further and further into this, but I leave it to you all. Do you got anybody you wanted to whistle to?

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yes. And now I want to shout out all my former students. You know, as being a 15-year teacher, taught thousands of kids from South Central LA to Beverly Hills, uh, the Buckley School, Milken, Price High, New Roads, and Santa Monica. Shout out to all my former students. I love all y'all.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

You're gonna hear about that on your Facebook page because they're all still Facebook friends.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

You got that right.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

That works, that works, brother. That works.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Well, and even talking about a professional NBA player, I was this was years ago. Uh, there was some recording of mine, it wasn't a podcast, but something like that. And I was talking to a friend. I'm like, I'm embarrassed to admit how many times I've gone back and listened to myself. And he goes, Don't you think Michael Jordan watched film of him pursuing free throws? And I'm like, Did you just call me the Michael Jordan of talking? I'll take that one. I'll take it. Now that's not where he was going, but I I'm a little embarrassed to admit how many of our past episodes I go back and listen to, and I go, I am listening to first, frankly, just to enjoy it, because I just like here hearing, kicking it with you guys. Like, seriously, here with this is like a sandbox, man. We get to we're meeting in a sandbox. We're playing as men in their field. Let's play, let's play, let's play. Um, legitimately trying to improve because I've heard some things like, oh, we we, I should have gone deeper. I should have spoken my mind a little more there, or I should have let that one breathe. So I do that. But going back, I I've listened to I just listened to the your bell schedule is racist again, which is a lot of the discussion about you all being educators. And I just get struck every time, LeBron. I've probably heard it three times now when you talk about telling your students if you're in my class, you all are my family. And like, and I just every time that hits me. It just hits me. I like that you brought it up right now. I know in my life, man, I am I still have teachers that I just hold so dear who embodied that same spirit of you all. So I just think it's so cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

And let me let me add that something that I'm let Antonio speak. Because you know how I feel about my students, I feel about education. People always say, is teaching a profession? I said it's only a profession for those people who are professional. And that is what Antonio is. He's a professional because he is a master of his of his uh art and he loves his kids. So being at the football game yesterday with Antonio and seeing him around his students is dynamic because that's the highest level of a teacher when you're always teaching, even in a fun environment. And all the kids loved him and responded to him, and he talked to them as though they were his kids. So someone looking was like, who's this black dude yelling at these little white kids? But they all responded immediately, like they knew, okay, okay, sure, we're at the game, but you know, I need to get back to my seat, or I can't send someone else's seat, or I can't block this, or I need to share my MMs. And it was just beautiful to see Antonio in this space with his kids, and it continue the classroom is not confined to the room, it's it's the world. And then and they appreciate him in that world, man. So I want to give you a shout out for that, my man. Thank you.

unknown 14:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I didn't realize. So you had students at the game yesterday. Yeah, we uh yeah, I just thought you so just context for anyone who, you know, in case this doesn't get cut out of the episode, I got a call from Antonio yesterday, right? What it was during before you all yeah. On the way to the game. On the way to the game. Hey, we've got extra tickets to the Rams versus Rams Seahawks. Ram Seahawks. Ram Seahawks at SoFi Stadium. Can you come? And it turned out that I couldn't. So in my mind, and you said LeBron and Sabah are going, so I'm just thinking it's it's Antonio, Daniela, LeBron, Sabah. That's it. But now I'm hearing no, there were other people there.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

No, no, no. So, so uh, you know, we I teach in a private school, and many of the individuals that I teach with uh have been teachers in other private schools, and so one of our teachers uh shout out, Mr. T, Daniel Troutman, has a relationship with uh people who run the Rams organization. And so he and I coached together this season, and in doing that, um, he said, you know what would be cool would be to take them to a Rams game. So he reached out and um because he did that, we were able to take uh our football teams, our football players, um, to go to the game. And so, you know, everybody knows I'm a middle school dude, but we had kids from fourth grade to uh seventh grade um traveling with us, you know, and there were some parents there who were chaperoning as well. Uh so it was this it was this weird dynamic, right? We've talked about gentle parenting, we've talked about like teaching and gentle teaching and whatnot. Some of their parents were there, some of their dads, because dads were like, wait, Ram Seahawks, I'll drive.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I'll drive. There's two things that get dads to volunteer football games and pretty teachers. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I mean fashion.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Cute females in that order. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

And so, you know, there were times and it was like, well, this is a it's not a school trip, but it it is an event, and there are teachers here. And so there were several times where all of the faculty, right, and then obviously we could bring uh other people. And so I reached out, I was like, hey, we're on the way to SoFi, you know, you live around the corner, you are you in town? Let's if you want to go, let's go. Um and so as we were there, you know, do they ask their parents? Do they ask this? Dude, I had one kid was climbing over seats to do something. I was like, Boy, act like you've been here before. You better get back and say, excuse me, and walk down the and then five seconds later, I saw his dad do the same thing, and I was like, Oh, that's where you learned it. Um right? But uh one kid showed up late and I I raised my voice, one, because there were 70,000 people screaming, and it was loud. Yeah, but uh, you know, my tone was I'm speaking to you. And as we said before, I you know, don't f up and I won't have to yell at you. So I hollered at him and I was like, you can't sit in those seats. Seventh grader, I was like, he was taking a fourth grader seat, and I was like, I need you to be confused, I need the fourth grader to be able to sit and be comfortable. Um you know, and then later in the day, I I also said to him, Hey, did you get this? Do you have this? Do you have some food? Did you eat? How was your lacrosse game, etc.? Uh, and so there were there were people there who were like, Why are you so mean? I said, because that's how I am. They were like, Oh, but you were nice to him. I said, 'Cause that's how I am. Like, I'm not gonna be inauthentic. This is what we do as we help raise good humans. Yes. You know, we gotta understand that there's a balance to it. But that means that there are parts where I'm you're gonna get corrected if you're incorrect.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Better come correct, you're gonna get the correction. There you go. And Sean, here's the funniest part. So Antonio leans over and yells at this kid, Finn, sit your ass down.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

I was like, I did not tell him to sit his ass down.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

No, no, that's my part I added. Well, you did say the Finn part. I did say the Far said, which is important to us. I was just interpreting what was going on in your mind before you edited yourself. And I turned to him and said, Antonio, in 20 years of teaching, I've never had a student named Finn.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

That's okay, dude.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

I was like, he's either gonna win an Oscar or he's going to Yale.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But or he's gonna be some private equity firm.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Right. But then I turned around and I was like, but I have two of them and they're sitting in front of us. Two Finns.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, there's a lot, there've been a lot of Finns, a lot of Liams have been about a lot of Liam's about. Um the the age of Kyle has kind of come into it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

But Finn, you know that in the job. I mean, you ain't even got to put your last name on the application. Finn was next, Finn, next, you're next. You're next. Come on in, Finn. Now, Devante, get the mop.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Okay, dude. Or are you? Devante got a thousand receptions yesterday. I forgot about that, Devontae. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Dude, Finn was born with his collar pop.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Woof. We have slid into the name game. We have and yet, but we're not ready.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

No, this is the preamble, baby.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

We haven't done our original. This is all preamble.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

But I gotta get this in before I go, and Antonio, because you you've been correcting me for not saying what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it and trying to be too polite and everything else. So I gotta get this out so I don't forget it. Yeah, say it. Because you just LeBron by you saying Finn, get your ass. So we we knew those two those two idiosyncratic idiosyncrasies didn't belong to one another. Like Finn was so white, and then the get your ass was not gentle parenting. Let's just put it that way, right? And you just blew my mind. Like, white names are they sound light and friendly. Like white names are built for gentle parenting, but then black names are built to be yelled at. Devontae, get your ass. It flows, doesn't it? Finn, think about what you've done. LeBron, get your Kyle. What did we talk about on in the BMW on the way over here? Oh my god, you're blowing my mind. Maybe the multiple symbol black name syllable black names are just because the moms are like, I'm gonna be yelling across the grocery store, and I need DeAndre to hear me. I need at least three syllables.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Because one ain't gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

They had to like test it out. Like, wait, let me yell this name first. DeAndre. Yeah, write that one down. DeAndre. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I hadn't I hadn't thought about the power of names in quite that way.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

The literal vocal power, the syllabic percussiveness, the the ability to sustain a vowel. Yes, the syllabic percussiveness. Like I'm saying. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Oh, I love it. I love it. Musician.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Dude.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Hey, you know what? First of all, we're all guilty of taking an hour and a half to get to our topic. That's true. This time we had premature uh topicalization.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Premature topiculation. Topiculation. Premature topicalization. I told you we had a topic.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

We were gonna stay on target. Stay on target. Topical display on target. There is a piece of it where we have we have. Dismissed or denigrated the creative spelling and and um pronunciation of black names in the United States. And I don't know that that's racist, but I do know that it is historically um pejorative because for a long time black folk weren't allowed to name themselves. For a long time they were given the name of the enslaver who owned their family, or the enslaver to which they were sold, or to the whims of whichever white people happened to have dominion over them at the time. And there were literally laws written to prevent black people from learning how those 26 letters that we know as the Queen's English were put together in order to form words. And so I've begun to think about in the terms of African American vernacular English the attempt to reclaim the power of identity in the creative spelling black names and to dismiss the shroud of white supremacy, which says you have to speak this way in order to speak properly. You have to spell this way, right? Because if I look back at the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of the United States, the spelling that they use was creative. Their S's look like Fs.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

They look like Fs. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Spell them any which way they wanted to. And so we don't say that Thomas Jefferson was ignorant. We think that he was a grand philosopher. He was, as Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump are, a rapist. And so we talk about black names, right, with a nod and a wink. And I think that is us perpetuating, and I say us because this, I, you know, I'm guilty. Just like LeBron said, he had gone by Bundy Drive to see, you know, Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson's uh death site. I I myself have been guilty of denigrating those names or looking down on people who spell creatively, or looking down on people who don't follow the rules of naming without taking into account what they are speaking life into, what they are speaking power into. And so I think it's important to take that seriously as we look at how we name and what we name and what are the things we choose to give names.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Yeah, I think that's super, super powerful and a good place to start because remember, to name something gives you the power to define and control it. And then to me, that's been the historical part that once someone else names you, you're theirs, whether you like it or not. We name our children. When people change their names, you know, once you change your name, if you change it, you're in control. If someone else names you, it's a rap. That's why we've been struggling for years. We were just we were colored, then we was uh African American, then we're black, so we're always trying to change our name because someone wants to change it back.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Facts. Names. Names.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

How many of us?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

How many of them before we go any further? Let's be names! But you know, it's kind of like back when I worked at USC and I used to joke because Antonio's mama was working there at the same time, and she was you might call a big deal. She was kind of a big deal during President Sample's run and other times. And so I joked with her when I went into her office and she sat there holding court with all of her trappings around her. And you know, shout out to Mama Messias. She is a UCLA brewing through and through. If I'm not incorrect, Antonio, wasn't she the very first black homecoming queen in the history of UCLA?

SPEAKER_02 26:28

She was not only the first black homecoming queen in the history of UCLA, she was the first black homecoming queen at a predominantly white university. And they changed the name of the right shots fired. Um they changed the title of Homecoming Queen to Miss UCLA because the jewelers in Westwood refused to give a black woman the jewelry that went along being Homecoming Queen. See, now you maybe they changed the name because we're talking about the power of the name.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

They couldn't say homecoming queen, they called it Miss UCLA because it couldn't be a black woman with the name Queen. It could not be a black queen. And this would have been like 1968.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

LeBron, you were born the next year. I was born that year. You were born in 68. On Thanksgiving uh up there. So it was almost 69, but it was still 68. Happy birthday coming up. But see, that's the thing, real quick. Like, I was talking to Sabah, and I'm like, you know what? I'm exhausted with racism. Like, I'm just tired of white supremacy. I'm just tired of having to always talk, like the wind always is being in my face. I'm like, I'm trying to go like a week without just bringing up race. Just you know what I mean? But then I told Sabah, like, even when I give when I give up racism, racism don't give up on me. So then when I hear that story again about your mom, it just like it's a stab in the heart, like, damn, I almost went 23 hours without having to deal with a story or something. And just just imagine Antonio's mom is like one of the greatest women on the planet. And to think that UCLA, the jewelers would say, no, we have to change the whole name. We can't even call it the homecoming queen anymore. You know what I mean? First of all, name any uh former UCLA homecoming queen that is as accomplished as your mom. Thank you. Thank you. I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll wait.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Okay. But it's it's so this whole thing, funny enough, like we can't. So here's what's weird. We can't seem to get away from the topic. From the names. We keep coming back to names, but that tells you that, right, the power of naming things is is so important because LeBron said, um, when you name a thing, then you define a thing. When you name someone, then you have power and control over them. Um, what I always go back to is this idea of, and John, you said it before, like I can't say maiden names. Right. What was your premarried name?

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Right. You know, that's it. Damn, you have a good memory, Antonio.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

The family name. Well, see, you've only listened to it three times.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Um curse of the editor.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Sure, sure, it's the editing. But it's it it's one of those things where we talk about how do how does society perpetuate itself, and women are expected to change their names when they get married, they're expected to change their names to take their husband's name, which is really their husband's father's name. But somehow their father's name isn't important enough for them to keep. Ooh. Right? So this patriarchy is real, like you're subsumed into the man's family. You're subsumed as your identity that you have to then change. It is so easy for women in the United States to change their name because there is an expectation that they are going to look for that MRS degree and get married. And when they get married, change their name to their husband's name. And yet, men, in order to change their name, have to put an ad in the paper in case they are running from creditors, have to put an, you know, there's a background check to see that you're not running from the law. There are a whole bunch of extra obstacles that men are required to go through in order to change their name. But it could just be they got married.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah. And at the same time, it is hell for women, once they get married and take their husband's name, to change everything over to that name as well. Right.

unknown 30:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Say more. What do you mean? Oh my goodness. Like once Baba changed her name to James, it was the it was the the passport, the credit card, but then this account, then social security card, then this, and then this, you had to wait for that to make this happen. It took almost two years. Yeah. You mean the number of things that that's and one depending on the other. So it's like who came first.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Well, and LeBron, was that a conversation you all had? What was it just kind of understood that she was going to change her name, or did you all talk about it?

SPEAKER_03 31:29

We talked about it. She had no problem with it. But you know what? I don't get stuck up on a lot of things. But I will admit that the only one thing being married is that I wanted my wife to have my name. Like everything else I can negotiate with or whatever, but that one for some reason is one thing I was just like hellbent on. Like, that's that's non-negotiable for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Can you can you name it? Can you name that? Like, why is it?

SPEAKER_03 31:53

And only in this moment now am I really kind of saying it out loud. Like it's a personal thing, and I don't know exactly where it came from, but it just it's more of uh I think it's out of my insecurity that my wife having my name gives me a another sense of internal security that she's mine. So I think it's probably like a insecurity, kind of immature sensitivity, eight-year-old boy inside of me that just you know, I'm just being transparent that you know, yeah, it's it wasn't about control, it was about making me feel me feel whole.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Dude, that that eight-year-old boy that we all have in us, and the the conditioning from society, the you know, you have to believe that we inherited this DNA of wanting to conquer and wanting to prove that we're strong, that we're reliable, that we're all the things that you know we're physiologically want to be strong and all that kind of stuff. And I think it's it's in that. So I really appreciate you saying that because I do think you you and I both LeBron, we've been through what I call the speaking of names, domestic evolution, domestic evolution, domestic evolution.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

The judge could where it's the judge downtown called it a divorce, but we can call it divorce.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

That's right, that's right. And me and my ex have talked about that. She she chose to change her name to my last name and then keep it after the divorce. And I I feel I feel a genuine sense of uh empathy towards that. I think you know, if I had lived up to 50 years of my life, or and over half of them when I was an adult, meant my name was this. I'm John Augustine, and then when I'm 53, suddenly that name go now. I'm John Smith or whatever. That's a brand change. Yes, that's a brand, don't we? And um, and so I respect the fact, like, and I and I'm I'm sensitive to the fact that she's like, I'm gonna keep it because I worked really hard in my career and like this is how I'm known. And and but I I think it must be a trip. It must be a trip, first of all, to change it in the first place and then to retain it, to make that choice to retain it or go back. Um, but yeah, dude, I think I I really appreciate you saying that, LeBron, because I don't I don't think I think a lesser man would not identify what you just identified, and I do think that's that's how we are. Like, there's a part of us that wants to feel validated and like, yes, that's like that's that's part of my kingdom. Like that's another that I am charged to protect and provide for because I'm the man. Antonio. Right. I'm looking at Antonio's face.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Okay, but our conversation was a little bit different. So I have right, we've we've had the conversation about my name. John was joking about it earlier, but it's Reinaldo Antonio Webb Torres Macias, right? So I have five, and I have I have four growing up my entire life. So I've always had my mother's maiden name as part of my middle name, right? It's Webb, correct? Webb, got it. Um, but but my surname is Macias. And so when Danielle and I were getting married and we talked about it, we we talked about, you know, do we both hyphenate? For me, it wasn't important that she had my name. What was important was that we had the same name. Right? And out loud there was the identification of us being married, but but down the road, I knew that the kids would have her maiden name and my last name. Like how we fix that up, I didn't know yet. But it was important to me also that all of us were identified with the same last names, right? So both the kids also have her last name and my last name. Everybody's Macias as far as surname goes, and so she had to change it. But I also added Torres, right? Which isn't even her whole last name because, right, and she's Chilean, so it was Torres Masolote, and there was a lot of conversation with her mother, who's Masoloti, about losing that piece of her name. Yeah. So this whole identity switch and naming things, like it was important for me that our married family, us, us and the kids, had the same series of names. Yes, right, but it wasn't and I say I was like at one point, you know, we were discussing it passionately.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

The volume was up.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

But I said, you know, we could just take all the letters of your last name and my last name and make a new name. Because I actually know people who've done that.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Oh did you seriously consider that?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I did, but she didn't, and I did because it was important to me that we had the same last name, yeah. But what was important to her about it was that we had the same last name as well. Yeah, and so that's how we proceeded. Here we are. And people have looked at me like you got a lot of names. That's what I got a lot of family. There you go. I'm a writer. Like, that's just how we roll. But you know, I know that there have been many, many weddings and many conversations and many feelings hurt about the changing names and how that plays out. Yeah. Because naming things is important and how you identify as important.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yes, it is. I'm this is I'm gonna be the one who says it. Not the conversation we were gonna have, but the conversation we're having. Actually, but this is the conversation we were gonna have about names. We just haven't officially teed it up.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Day on target.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

But first of all, I just like that that we are, as is typical of us, we're being thoughtful about it. We're we're going, there's meaning here. This is not, these aren't just sounds to assign to a one of our kids or to a spouse or to a thing or to a landmark or to a concept. Like words matter, names really matter. And even in this the time where folks are being more fluid with their gender and they want uh they want a they instead of it, you know, we can get into pronouns and all that. It I was having a conversation with an Uber driver, which is a big part of my life, and this time in Texas. I was in Texas, and I'm I'm going to the airport after a program, so energy's up. And for some reason, it's Texas. The the this I get the most California hate from Texas. I wonder why. This is about a year ago. This I was in Dallas, not Houston this time. Woman named Shelly, where are you from? I said, I'm from California. And she just starts shaking her head. Said, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I'm like, couldn't do what? I couldn't live in California. Why not? Oh, you know, I don't want to say it. And I'm like, just say it. Come on, Shelly. Now, you know, the politics. I'm like, you ever been to California? No. So we had this conversation. No. Could you give me an example of what you couldn't deal with exactly? And she said, Well, that you know, the pronouns and he, she, they, yeah. I'm just, you know, you and she just kind of went off about it. You know, it's I it was one of my better moments, I'm quite proud of. And it's about names. I said, So your name's Shelly. She's yeah. Is that short for something else? Yeah, my name's Michelle. Okay, so you were born and you were given the name Michelle, but you like to be called Shelly. Yeah. Okay. So at some point you made a decision that other people needed to call you Shelly and not Michelle. That's right. And I just sat there and said, mm-hmm that's interesting. Yeah, okay, Shelly. So thanks. I mean, like, I didn't Shelly.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

That would be three and a half stars.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

That's okay. No. For her. For her. For her. Thank you. As as well. But y'all just teased out that memory, I remember it. But you know where where I got the idea for us talking about this was two twofold. The first one was just Mamdani winning. Yay democracy.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Shout out to Mom Dani. Congratulations, my brother.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Zoran, Mom Dani.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

And if you're nasty.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

A number of Kwame, right? Is his minimum's Kwame and Kruma? Kwame. And he and he was named after a hero from his home country of Ghana.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Kwame Nkrumah, our fraternity brother.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Bluefoot. That's right. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Thank you. Um, but there are several occasions where Mamdani's name was mispronounced, and he addressed it. People have asked him about it before, and he, of course, said, look, I don't have any problem with any New Yorker, anyone who mispronounces my name the first time out or the second time out. I'm fighting for the New Yorkers who constantly have their name mispronounced on purpose, who aren't shown the respect. That's what I care about more. Which also made me think of Kamala and all the time she was called Kamala. And so I wanted to talk about that element of it, which we'll talk about, I'm guessing. But that brought about just the idea of names that mean something. Naming something means something. Antonio, you brought up this idea of our children. Like we all were very thoughtful, probably, in coming up with names for our kids.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

I believe, as LeBrian said earlier, like Isaiah has to choose what he's gonna follow. Now, again, in the Isaiah, so I'm giving him some I'm giving him a hand start. Didn't name him Judas, didn't name him Cain.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

I think there's an episode here about the naming of children and the sending them off into the world before they can send themselves. But that's just like if we go through the four of us and talk about all the children that we have, yeah, and how we came to the names that we've given them and what we hoped that would mean, or didn't hope that would mean.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

I'm so sorry. There's a reason to name my son Deshante. There was a reason. It was religious and capitalist.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

And I named my son Isaiah because so my son is biracial, he's black, but you know, he's married. My wife is white, and I'm like, he has to have a name where he has credibility with black people, and he can be in white spaces and still be what you know. So I'm not thinking about all that stuff. Do you think or you think you put some thought into that to teach it? No, I you know, so like we're a doctor. We call them, we call him Zay. Like most people in my family call him Zay. Um, and so he has like, we I did, I I thought I thought a great deal about what we're gonna name if I was a boy or a girl because I had to, because I'm aware of you know the world I live in and racialized politics.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

I thought that'd be a good place to start, is just say the names of your children and how you chose them. What what's the meaning behind it? And it doesn't have to be deep. If it's not deep, it's not deep, but I'm curious. I mean, LeBron, you inherited a name that we talked about earlier that was pro that was proplegetic in 2002.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Yeah, that's when it became problemetic. So 2002. Obviously, my first son, I had to keep the keep the keep the party going. But the interesting thing is we we have no juniors because my dad is LeBron K. James. Okay. And so I'm LeBron D. James, so I'm named after him and my mother's my middle name is my grandfather on my mother's side. So then And D is the name? D, Dennis. Uh-huh. Okay. So now my son LeBron, G, for Gary, he's named after me and his mother's father, whose name is Gary. So that's how sort of how we did the name game.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

That's why he's uh that's why he's LG.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

LG. Shout out to my son LG and Nigel. Learning new things. Now, my son now for my second son Nigel, that was difficult. Because first, you know, I was telling my ex wife, we should name him Carmelo. So we'll have Carmelo and LeBron. She's like, fool, get out of here with that book. So then I was big Is that when she called the divorce?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Attorney.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

After this next one, she called the divorce attorney. Okay. So then I was like, I was big into Adidas. I liked Adidas. So Adidas was created by a dude named Adolph, Adolph Dassler. So I'm like, if we name him Adolf, he could be Adolf James. And that didn't quite go over as well as I had hoped it would. Because people hating on the name Adolf just because of this one dude. But I'm like, it's a name. But the power of the one name, people. So Adolf, if you wear Adidas, you're wearing Adolph shoes. But what he did is the typical thing that immigrants do, they change their names. So instead of being Adolf, he changed his name to Addy ADI. And Dossler was his last name. So he just did Adidas Adidas.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Didn't know that. And you know it's pronounced Adidas. Adidas. Everywhere else is Adidas. Exactly. Except in America. If you run DMC, my D Dos D Dos. My Adidas. That's great. You legitimately proposed Adolph James.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah, because I was so big in the Adidas with the three stripes. I was like, okay, it's me, LG, and Night. It would be three of us. Adidas. So then I did my homework. I'm like, oh, his name is Adolph. I'm like, AJ. I'm an AJ sound.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

But he would have gone by AJ his entire.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

I'm going to say Adolph, Adolph would have been a problem.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

But why? Like George Washington, people named the kids George Washington and stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Because George Washington, because George Washington won. Oh, that's why he won. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

But I'm saying, but but see, the power of a name, it's just a name. But you take one name, like that name, though you think the first name is bad. Try the last name. That's the one people are like, uh-uh, we ain't doing that one. But there's still plenty of people who know any Judases?

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Do you know any kids named Judas?

SPEAKER_03 45:53

No, I know a lot of kids named Jesus, though. Right?

SPEAKER_01 45:56

A lot of Jesus. Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

You didn't know a lot of kids named Jesus. You don't know a lot of kids' names Jesus. I call them all Jesus, by the way. You can call them what you want to, but they name it not really Jesus? It's not an episode unless we quote R. F. Quang. However, you saying it in English is different than them being named that in Spanish. Gotcha. You don't know anybody named Jesus. You know a bunch of kids named Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Who probably go by Jesus?

SPEAKER_03 46:23

So but Jesus has a different meaning in Spanish as it does. No. It's the same person we're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. What I'm saying to you is those who grow up speaking English culturally would never deign to name their child Jesus. They would see the like I just think I don't know It's a lot of pressure. I don't know. It's a lot of pressure. I don't know. Sure. But why isn't the same in Spanish? That's my question. Right. But but you also have don't have a problem. Like people call name little girls Mary all the time. Right. But in in Catholic Spanish speaking countries, right? Maria is every woman's first name, and nobody goes by it. Right. My wife is my wife is Maria Daniela. No, you all didn't know that. No. You all didn't know that. We didn't.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Antonio, you ain't never heard of that. Just when we thought we knew this food, dude. Moved to last year. It keeps on happening.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

It keeps on New York happening. Now it just keeps on coming. I know he lived in DC. We learned about that last time.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

But I was having this conversation. So I took kids to the Museum of Natural History, LA County Museum of Natural History. They were talking about the 22 families that settled Los Angeles. Yes. There were black, there were indigenous, there were mulato, there were Spanish families in this group of 22. There was one family had four daughters, the man and the white and the woman, the woman and all four daughters were named Maria Something. Wow. And the kids were like, why are they all named Maria? And I said, they're not. But in your cultural space, you go by the first name that you were given. Right? All of these people were named after Mary, mother of God.

unknown 48:19

Right?

SPEAKER_02 48:19

So they're Maria something, Maria something. And I guarantee you, said I wasn't there, but I guarantee you that they all went by that second name.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yeah. I love that. But something about naming them Maria something was like this invocation, and it was like this blessing every time it was said. And let's face it, there's a superstitious nature to most religious ways of being, where it's like well, you know the number one name in the world. LeBron.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Mohammed. Every first son, his name Mohammed. In a Muslim family, I know that. So, you know, it is important.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

But you LeBron, you made me think when you said you wanted to name Nigel Adolf. And does he know that story?

SPEAKER_03 49:07

He doesn't know.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Well, he will know. Johnny Cash has a song called A Boy Named Sue.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Right? And you go through the whole song and it's great. And blah blah blah. And he finally meets his father, like his dad left when he was born, named him Sue, and then took off. And he's like, Why the f did you name me Sue? He said, because I knew I wasn't gonna be around, and I knew you were either gonna get tough or you were gonna die.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Right? Like you were either gonna stand up for yourself and you did, you survived, so you're welcome. Damn. Or, and so when you were like, I was gonna name him Adolf, I was like, Well, that's that's the modern version of a boy named.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

And what would have been crazy though is Nigel would have been named Adolph James, and he's a Jew. So that would have really twisted things up for him. So he'd have had a lot of susplaining to do. So I'm sorry. A lot of susplaining to just something in my head. Luckily it didn't it didn't pan out. You're fine, Nigel. Luckily, your mama said yes, your mama was smarter than me in that moment. Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Wow, learning all kinds of stuff. That's uh did you have a conversation with your dad too once you know 2002 rolled around and King James of of basketball fame came around? Did you and him have to have a little little coming of like heads heads together?

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Most definitely said daddy. Is he your son too? So you go through Cleveland, I know my pop.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Hey, mama's baby, start doing the math, changing changing the spelling, changing the spelling, getting it right this time. That's right. I'm like where the Y came from.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

Where did my grandmother get the L Y from? You talk about black people and they weird naming. Libron.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

I said creative, man.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Creative, creative naming.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Reclaiming the power of speech.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Antonio, I have to say, because you're gonna you got to talk about naming your kids, but I just think you know, we talked about LeBron's name, and when I'm thinking about you, it's knowing you is so great. It depends on what decade we're talking about. Exactly. So uh more than thrice, I have been out in the wild and run into one of your people that knew you at some in some era. They either knew you as a teacher or they knew you as a high schooler. Uh, and and there's a different name. There was there's like I was explained, I forget. There's one, I was it was I was watching a Dodgers game in a in a sports bar in Sacramento, and I ran into some dude. We were talking about our backgrounds, and he's like, Oh man, I knew a guy who went to UCLA, and yeah, he's five bit of sing with something, blah blah blah. I'm like, huh? And he's like, Tony. I'm like, I don't know. Wait, no, it's not wait. Oh. So you've been Tony, you've been Reynaldo, you've been Antonio. Yep. Talk to us about your kids.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

I've been waiting for this part for the last hour.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Well, but every right, so so to name something is to have power over it. Um, my father is Reynaldo, and so first name was out when I was young. I was always Antonio. I bet Antonio at home. That's when my parents call me.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Was oh, so they called you that. That wasn't your choice.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

No, no, no, no. I grew up as Antonio, like got it. That I knew I had a first name, but I also knew, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:29

So Reinaldo was your Maria, basically.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Yes, yes. And um, when I started going to school, even Antonio was too much for the lazy Anglified tongue. Wow, it was that lazy having to explain it, right? Well, well, you remember those, you know, when they were calling off your name on the first day of schools, they'd be like, Run Ronald Ronald Antonio Tony, Tony. Um, so I was Tony all the way through high school. And somewhere in there, I was like, this doesn't feel right. So college was right going to UCL. Transitions. So then it was Antonio or Antonio, right? Depending on who you were and where it was.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Um Campbell Hall, you're Antonio and everywhere else. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Um and then it was, you know, five years later, because some of us take a little time. It was five years later, and I was trying to get a job. And what's my grown-up name? Well, my grown-up name is Reynaldo. So, you know, my stationary blue paper with all the names on it, and I'm sending it out. So I got a job as Reynaldo, and it's been Reynaldo ever since. Yeah. Right? But we started doing this, and you all were like Antonio. And I was like, but people don't know me. So Reynaldo Antonio, which is why that's what it says. Yeah. And now I'm introduced around here. But it was funny because I went back to my parents' house for a minute after graduation, and so people would call and say, Can I speak to Reynaldo? And my mom's like, who who is this, yeah, is my do I get this to my husband or my son? Right, did the older one or the younger one? Um, and then I met my wife. We were both working at Harvard Westlake, and so she knows me as Reinaldo, and then I took her home to meet my parents, and she's like, Who, who, who's Antonio? Who's this person they speak of? So I know how people know me based on what they call me. Yeah, but yeah, you have said that. You have been like, hey, you know such and such person. Yeah, man, that's we went to high school. I said, I know you went to high school because he called you Tony.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

That's right. That or the, you know, Mr. Messias means he was one of your students, because I had a couple of those also.

SPEAKER_03 55:02

Sure.

unknown 55:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

But but LeBron, you've probably been through this too, where it's really funny, you know, I the the most important woman I'm that in your life that I first met was your mom. Right. Like, okay, that when she called you Antonio. So that's and and it, and all the fraternity brothers called you Antonio, and then college and you go to graduate school and then come back and do it, do the evolution you just said, and you meet Daniela, and she knows you as Ray. And so I remember the first time, like, here's a second prominent woman in Antonio's life, not calling him Antonio, but calling him Ray. So experiencing it through that was weird. Like, right, okay, which which woman do I listen to? Do I listen to Mama Messias? Or Mrs.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

Messias?

SPEAKER_01 55:48

And there was a minute where I tried to go Ray, and I just couldn't do it, man. I just I couldn't do it either. Didn't yeah. Do you remember that little bit?

SPEAKER_03 55:56

I remember I tried for like two or three minutes and I I just couldn't do it, dude.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

I've just no, you have so many when we did that project that shall not be named.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

That's when you did it, because that was professional. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

We sure did. That's right. Okay, okay, duly noted. But but I always felt like Antonio was in like in the witness protection program, but he would never stay hidden. He keeps coming out. Antonio, I mean, uh Renaldo.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Oh, which one's the one he's not gonna get shot at?

SPEAKER_04 56:27

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

Yeah. And then your your children's names, your progeny, Antonio. That was the thing.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

No, I had pride. It was never I I was never going to name him. So he's older and they're younger. And I deferred a lot early on um to my wife. Yeah. Uh I like to tease her about being an old my the older woman that I fell in love with. And so um she's gonna whoop my ass when she hears that out. But but uh so when when we were we got together, we got married, we got a dog. I named the dog Lucas, right? Because you know I'm a big fan. Stay on target. So I was like, cool, and then we got pregnant, so it was a you know, what are we gonna name him? It was important to me that he had part of my name, so his middle name is Antonio, but I was like, oh, we named the dog Lucas, she's not gonna give me Luke, right? So I didn't even try. Yeah, and then um Pablo Neruda is a famous Chilean poet, and part of her vows to me, she read so Pablo worked, so Pablo Antonio is is his name. Um and then when Camila was born, we had a lot of different conversations, like you know, do we we name them after my mom or do we name them after her mom? And then we couldn't like that was gonna be a big deal. Um and Daniela liked Camila, uh forgetting that she had made a deal with her cousin to name her first daughter after her cousin, and her cousin named her first daughter after her. I'm with you now, yep.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Yeah, but forgetting okay, she'd forgotten about that.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

I mean, you know, pregnant got a title. She'd forget a lot of stuff. Um, and so Camila Isabel came out of those conversations uh because we liked it. It's beautiful, and we were like, you're beautiful, and it's deep. So um that's where we came with their name. And it's funny because you talk about my evolution, but Pablo's always gone by Pablo. Camila has been like, Oh, let me try this one. Oh, I'll go by Isabel. Oh, they did Isabel for a little bit? They did Isabel for high school, um, and so they've bounced around and named themselves with that identity piece. Um that's always been right, you have the power to control very little about who you are growing up, except what people call you. Yeah to Shelly's point.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

To Shelly, the the Uber driver and a problem with pronouns, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:43

She doesn't have a problem naming herself and taking control of that power. Agency. Agency. Agency. There we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

So, John, what is your parental naming story?

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Well, so my name is John William Augustine, and I'm John with no H. And the first question when I make the clear that I don't have an H is so is your name Jonathan? And the answer is no. My name is just John on the birth certificate, J-O-N. And my response is usually we just couldn't afford an H. So we're just switched it on down. It was more reflective of my mom's artistic hippie bent. She's she was not a she's not like a strong personality, but she's academic and thoughtful and introspective, and I think it was her way of being just a little weird for me. But my dad is William John Augustine. I'm John Williams. Oh, I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

Okay, yeah. But he's J-O-H-N, and I've got a great grandfather that was from Poland who was John, but the name's actually Josh. Um, Josh Augustine, but in America, he came through Ellis Island, became John. So my dad would call me Josh growing up sometimes as a you know what as a as a term of endearment. Did he change it or did they change it? I think he changed it. They changed it really at Ellis Island. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Oh, they did they did that a lot at Ellis Island. Okay. There's a famous scene in a pretty good movie called The Godfather where Vito Andolini becomes Vito Corleone.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Because he was a little kid and he couldn't speak English, and Corleone was where he's from.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

I didn't mean to finish your thought for you, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

You didn't, I I interrupted your story. So that's go ahead, Yash.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Well, you know, that's the old Italian joke, is that they put that why are so many Italians named Tony is because their parents put their kids on a on a boat and and they didn't speak any English, but they wrote two New York, T O N Y. I've never heard that one before. I've never heard that. That's a good one, man. Oh god, there are so many Tony's because Anthony's saying it. There's so and my grandfather, Anthony, and and I'll get to my kids too, but my even when we're talking about wives taking on their husbands' names, my my mom's side, my mom has a brother and a sister, and her brother married a woman who had two kids, but he never had children of his own. So her and her, so the if you're following the patriarchal way of naming last name, surnames, the prisano name, the Italian name, ended because there was there was no male passing on his name. So my aunt Donna, my mom's little sister, married a very, really cool my Uncle Matt. You all know Uncle Matt, he's the lobster catcher of King Neptune from Gloucester. He's from a family of nine Irish Massachusetts and really great dude, very progressive and awesome. And he just agreed to pass on his his wife's name to the kids. So my cousins are Mark Prazano and Angela Prasano. So it kept my my you know grandfather. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:44

Did he change his name or the kids just took Prazano?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Kids took Prazano. He kept his current is his last name, but uh his kids are my two cousins, Mark and Angela Prasano. I'm a little embarrassed about my kid naming because uh you didn't daddy. Oh well, but it's really funny. I I joke about this, but it's true. I think you all we might have talked about it. There's a scene from 16 Candles towards the end. He's named after Jake. Where Jake Ryan is out in front of the in front of the church and Molly Ringwald's character. I still don't remember her name. You know, and he like waves at her and he's like leaned up against the against the the convertible and he points and she looks behind him. Like Jake Ryan was the like strong, popular, handsome, sensitive. He was the the Edward from Twilight of our era, right? He was all he embodied all the things that women wanted and that men wanted to be. And uh so I joke that he's the reason there are so many kids children of Gen X parents named Jake. There are so many Jake's. And um the truth, I have two boys and a girl, Jake, Luke, Sophia. Like this one, these monosyllabic strong names. It's like you could grunt Jake. You could grunt Luke. Um, but there was a Jacob Augustine. My great-grandfather was Jacob Augustine, so Jake's name is Jacob. And but I did like Jake, both Lori and I liked Jake. His middle name is Anthony, that's my grandfather Prasano's name. And then Luke, I guess I named him because Antonio, I knew you wanted a Luke, and so you had to have a Luke somewhere in your family. My brother. So, and yes, when he was born, I did look at him and said, I am your friend. You had to.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

You had to.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

His middle name is Felix, which is a really cool name. That is his mom, Lori's grandfather's name, Felix Valencia from Mexico. And then Sophia, her middle name is Rose. My auntonna's middle name is Rose. She named her daughter's middle name as Rose. That's a big my great-grandmother from Italy was named Rose. So Sophia Rose, Augustine. Now Lori and I couldn't settle on what I wanted Sophia, the Italian spelling, S-O-F-I-A. That's the yes. Lori really wanted the Greek spelling, the PH. That's just what she was used to. She had an aunt Sophie, and um that was spelled that way from Mexico. So to your point, Antonio, you know, I was I was a man under authority, and I I obeyed and I went with the PH. But even to this day, and I the way I was able to justify my mind when he looked at it, like, well, in Greek, the name Sophia means wisdom. And if we really want to like connect it to the Greek spelling, it's I mean, it would still mean that if it was went with the Italian spelling, but anyway, we did that. But even my daughter, she's like, why did you give me this spelling? It'd be so much cooler if it was an F. And I'm like, you could change it if you want to. Um But yeah, I mean, Jake kind of I think the first inspiration was Jake Ryan from 16 Candles. And then we're able to give up the family. Jake's first tattoo is the image from the funeral card of my grandpa Anthony Prazzano. Wow. It's like a Saint St. Anthony.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

So that was cool. And he's got some others that that uh honor the family. And it's it's become really meaningful to him. And I I was wondering from you all too, have you or because you you received the name and you talked about agency, Antonio, even like you know, you have the right with Camila, who went by Isabella, and then wanting to feel what's that? Isabella Isabella? Yeah. And you know, because there's some power, there's some agency, and grabbing that yourself. Like it's given to you, but then there becomes a point where it becomes meaningful to you, and then you own it. Did you all see any of that evolution with your kids? Because I know with Jake recently, last several years, he he introduces himself as Jacob, and part of that is just because there's so many fucking Jakes that and he feels like it's such a white boy name, too, and he's a little sensitive to not wanting to be just that, whatever that represents. And he likes Jacob, and he also likes that it's attached to the family, and he's got a great great-grandfather named Jacob Augustine. But what about you all? Have you seen your kids kind of connect to their names at all?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

Well, most definitely, like growing up, obviously, me being the dad, my son LG, we called him LG growing up. But once he went to college, he's like, I'll take back my first name now. So it's a lot easier on the women. I don't want to introduce hell, I'm LG as hello, I'm LeBron James. And being in your early 20s, that's a good starter. Firestarter. That's some good Kindle right there for that wood.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Yeah, I mean, he's the first in the family that can really enjoy the benefits of the stuff. Yeah. I got the clothing penny exists when you were to get all the others, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

Yes, but you know, I never caught him Brawny though. I'm glad I didn't, but you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Why would you?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:40

Because being the the the smaller LeBron, the the the child of mine, like but yeah. LG is better.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Bronny, Bronny is Bronny because he doesn't have a G. Ooh. I mean, honestly, think about it. Yeah, he doesn't. So he's growing up in that shadow. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, he's obviously not gonna be running around going, oh yeah, I'm LeBron.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

No, you're not. That's your dad. That's your dad, yeah. Makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

So they call him Bronny. Yes. So he done taken that out in the in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

Wise move. Yeah, I mean, not doing him too bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

What about you, Antonio? Your kids ever do you notice any attachment to what you've named them? Have they has it evolved at all with them?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Um well, it you know, Camila did the the swerve as I did, and and was like, I'm gonna go by this. I'm gonna see, I'm gonna be this other person. I'm gonna, I'm gonna present, right? We talk about or I talk about um, you know, that identity development in middle school and high school. Yeah, and so they very consciously made a decision, I'm gonna go by Isabel. This is who I'm gonna be when I'm going here, right? Um, and it lasted all the way through high school, and then going to college, they were like, Nah, I'm gonna I like I like who this is and represents, even as I'm figuring other stuff out, and so it's been Camila, and it's been to be very honest, has been Camila with us, right? Whatever I was called out in the world, I was Antonio at home, and she's they've been Camila at home, right? And with all the people who knew them as Camila, right? So all of their teachers that they kept in touch with, and all the people that they knew growing up never got on the Isabel train. That was for new people, that was for a new introduction.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

Yeah. So tell me this, Antonio. I'm I'm real curious because of the power of naming. Can you now in retrospect see who you are and how you were different as Tony versus how you were as Antonio versus how you are now as Ray?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Naldo.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

Oh, very much so. Ray. Well, and it's so there's the Tony. I'm gonna cut it down because that's easier for you. There's Antonio, who I've always been Rey Naldo, felt like you know, I was wearing my dad's shoes and it was too big. But at this point, I have stopped worrying about saying things that make other people comfortable. Right. And I'll tell you what I think or how I think or whatnot. And so that is comfortable too. And the whole Mr. Messias thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

I was like, well, that's that's my dad's standing something.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Right, there you go. Even that has been an interesting evolution, yep. Like who they're calling me. So I know how it's it's been very much a piece of how I reflect and and present. It wasn't always at the beginning, but you know, I've been Reynaldo, and that's right around here. That's how I met my in-laws, that's how I met her entire family. Yeah, that's how I met her. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

So when we come over to your house on a Saturday, which happens, yes, it does. Everybody's calling you Ray. Everybody's calling you Ray. And then LeBron and I showed you Antonio to us. We pee in the Kool-Aid. Oh no, but your family's calling you Antonio, right? Yes, and that's what's funny because a couple a couple times ago, a couple gatherings ago, I can't tell you what holiday or whose birthday it was. It was a Saturday. That was the first time your your two, you well, your brothers were there, and I know both of your brothers, of course. And that was the first time I'd been in your house, I think, in a long time, where I was hearing Antonio, Antonio, Antonio. I'm used to hearing Ray, Ray, Ray, and then me and LeBron being the one only ones going Antonio. And it was very satisfying because it did feel like, oh man, we're in on the we're in on the first time. You weren't inside.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:13

Yes. We're doing right when he got put into witness protection, like the first day.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

This was this is I'm dying because we stayed on target. We were so we've never been this on target. We've never been this on target. We didn't talk about half the stuff we were gonna talk about. Yeah, I got more notes. I got tons of notes on names, but I didn't even open my notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:37

We didn't get into math names, nothing. You know what? We need you need a you probably have some bars, LeBron. You want to drop some bars about some math names? You want to talk about the hypotenuse? You want to talk about the only here's a problem I do have Pythagoras?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

Pythagoras is a thief. He did not create the Pythagorean theorem. Chinese did it a thousand years before him, and then 1500 years before that, they did it in Egypt, and that's how they built the pyramids. So I'm going doing a campaign to change all math books from Pythagorean theorem to the Egyptian theorem. So all 15 years I talk, I only call it the Egyptian theorem. So that's my next crusade.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:12

Ooh, so you set it up, you give the context, you said the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:16

I have a 20-page PowerPoint presentation. I'm going to conferences. I'm speaking on it at a conference in a couple of months because I'm going to change the name because I know how symbols and names are important. Egyptian theorem, baby.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

The Egyptian theorem.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Beautiful. You heard it here first. Three for the founders. TM.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Ah, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

So is this the point where we do our intros, Antonio?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

But after we after we say, thank you for joining us talking about the power of names, what naming means. Um normally I ramble about the seven things that we talked about, but today we stayed on time. We had a topic. I don't know how deep we went. Uh, this was more familiar. However, it's representative of who we are at this point in time, Reynardo Antonio, LeBron, John, no H, because they couldn't afford one. Um, and so there will probably be a part two. There's perhaps a part three. There's a question that I was really excited to ask that didn't happen. Um but that is what it is, right? Man plans and God laughs. Left on founders.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:42

Left on founders. Left on founders. Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok. Or send us a text through Bud Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:14

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke. About as slow as snails when I'm oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

I think I'm not gonna edit this at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Yeah, good luck. Yes. This was a two hours and twenty-eight minutes later. I can't believe yeah, seriously, I don't know. How do we stand?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

Do we take like some mushrooms or something to talk about one topic for two hours straight?