Ep. 29 - Endings Are Easy—It’s Admitting the Mess That Hurts

We know something about endings. We know when a beloved teacher hangs up the chalk, when the church mothers finally step down from the usher board, when a job no longer fits, or when a season of our own lives is quietly tapping us on the shoulder saying, “Baby, it’s time.”

That’s why this week’s episode of Three for the Founders feels like it was recorded for every one of us.

Episode 29 closes out the podcast’s first season with an unflinching conversation about endings: the kind we invite, the kind we delay, and the kind the country may be drifting toward whether we admit it or not.

The brothers anchor their discussion against the backdrop of a “capitalist Christmas” and corporate rollbacks of DEI—even as those same companies cash in on Black Friday. The hosts push us to see how justice, clarity, and honesty should shape how we exit, not just how we begin.

When Personal Seasons Shift

Antonio speaks for many of us who stayed too long at a table we loved. After four and a half years on a working board—and two and a half knowing he needed to go—he finally chose health, purpose, and peace over obligation. That’s a sermon in itself: you don’t have to keep showing up when showing up hollows you out.

Jon opens up about career pivots, calling, and faith transitions. From leaving ministry nearly two decades ago to stepping fully away from Christianity more recently, he names the fear of letting people down—and the quiet ego underneath it. His story reminds us that spiritual and professional shifts aren’t failures; often they’re freedom.

And Lybroan continues to be the patron saint of planned exits. Whether navigating teaching, real estate, or academia, he shows the power of intentional endings—of seeing the season before it sees you. He’s already got eyes on a doctorate next.

But this episode isn’t just about personal lives—it’s about national ones. The hosts wrestle with a heavy question: Is America ending?

Lybroan and Antonio say yes: powerful interests are already drafting the blueprint for a redesigned nation, and the signs—Project 2025 and constitutional choke points—are all around us. Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower reminds us that scarcity has always been used to justify walls, surveillance, and the rearranging of democracy.

Jon hopes the Trump era is what’s ending—and admits the optimism may be wrapped in the comfort of privilege. If nothing else, he argues, the young people are watching, questioning, pushing. And that has always been the seed of American rebirth.

What emerges is what folks in our community have long understood: endings are not the enemy. Denial is.

Some of us plan. Some of us surrender. Some of us delay. But all of us have to face the moment when what once fit… doesn’t.

This first season of Three for the Founders ends the way a family gathering does—full of gratitude, good sense, and a reminder of unity: “We represent the United States and its principles and everything it’s supposed to be.”

And then, true to form: “Left on Founders, we out.”

Season 2 is expected around February 1, with episodes every two weeks. And yes—Bryan Stevenson is on the dream list.

Until then, the Herald salutes this season’s honest

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

That's right. It's like what I what I tell other people you said, LeBron. What LeBron says is we are what the Founding Fathers didn't even know they wanted. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

We're brothers. We're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a five. Alright, cut and print.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Beautiful guys. I don't like that. Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years. And now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Hey LeBron, why do we call ourselves Three for the Founders?

SPEAKER_06 0:52

We call ourselves Three for the Founders. One, because we are three friends and happen to be fraternity brothers. And we also believe in the founders of this country, and we want to hold them accountable for the things that they wrote in the Constitution, and we hope to help everyone live up to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

You're here. How are you feeling, gentlemen? Hey, hey! That's the energy. I called IT and they said, Did you plug it? Did you unplug it and plug it back in? Yes, I did. But I I got right, you know, LeBron, I call it customer service. I didn't even bother. I said, put the white man on the phone and solve my problem.

SPEAKER_06 1:26

Hey, man. That's how things work in America, baby.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

I got hurt my back yesterday. My the honeydew list killed me. Oh, yeah. My wife said, Honey, do this. And I went out and got all the Christmas stuff out the shed. And so I was lifting stuff and I'm 54 now. You know, when I was 53, I can get shit just anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Something about that four, that five, four.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

What is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

LeBron, that's how you know, Antonio. I know his dad says he's not half anything, but this is how you know he's only half Mexican because he stopped working at 54.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

I wish I could stop working. Man, I'm trying to tell you. You're talking about something coming to an end.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I want this employment to come to an end. Woo! It's perfect for our theme tonight, upon which we'll stay on target, I'm sure, because what should be coming to an end is Pops, Pop's having to get all that Christmas gear out of the shed. For real. This is some things end for you. Captain T-shirt, dude, I appreciate you. Yeah, look, look. Man. Go ahead. The opposite of poverty is not wealth. The opposite of poverty is justice. The opposite of poverty is justice.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Yeah, this is a Brian Stevenson quote from uh the Equal Justice Initiative. Way back in the day, episode one, two, and three, we like kept dropping his name. For sure. We got to get him on here too. Season two, man. That I think we could do that. Um, but as we move into this uh capitalist Christmas season and everybody is rushing to Black Friday and uh Amazon is stretching their uh Black Friday week. I don't think somebody posted this, but I don't think that if you dropped your DEI programs, if you're no longer supporting Black History Month or LGBTQ Pride Month, that you should be allowed to call it Black Friday. I think that's some little shit.

SPEAKER_06 3:29

Pretty soon Amazon's gonna be like, welcome to Black History Month, where you can buy stuff for four weeks. It's on its way.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

It's gonna be on sale. It's a 28-day sale. 29 days every fourth year.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

And look, uh so we talked about Target and Costco. Target, the boycott, is still happening. Good. Uh and Costco just sued the regime uh for the tariffs because prices have gone up for them to get stuff, so they literally filed suit against the Trump regime. Costco is on it. Like, let me get I got that executive membership. I'll just roll up in there and get a hot dog and a pizza, and I'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Dude, those dollar fifty, those dollar fifty lunches go a long way, man. Man, that whoops that's a good thing. And I love what they call a slice of oh yes, I love what they call a slice of pizza. It's two gigantic slices. That's what we called a whole pizza in 1981.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

Come on now. Hey, Antonio, wait a minute. We did you wrong last time. You didn't get to start off with your question. So I want to make sure you get your Daniela production question in.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Uh well, no, this one isn't hers. This one is mine. So I uh recently um resigned from a board of directors that I have been on for about four and a half years. And it got me to thinking because I have been thinking about resigning from the board uh for a number of reasons for probably two and a half years. And I hadn't done it because I really appreciate the people that are on the board. I really appreciate uh the relationships that I've developed. Um, and I thought the work that we were doing is important. But it was not as productive as it should have been, and it was a working board, which I think that's a thing, at least that's what I'm gonna call it. Um, in the sense that all of the jobs or projects or things that we decided needed to get done were also being done by the people on the board. Um, and so it was taking up, you know, two or three times as much time as I actually had time for. And then I had some health issues. Um, and I gotta say, shout out to my man uh Chris Jones from the 4050 uh social podcast, because he's he's been going through some of those. Uh, you know, I just want to say, I hope you're doing well. Um, but that really made me re-evaluate where I was putting my time. And so my question was, how do you know when things should end? Right? Um because I knew probably I knew, like I said, two and a half years ago, I knew that I should get off the board, and yet I let it go um until I was really forced to re-evaluate. And at that point I had to say it. And even when I resigned, I didn't want to. And so that's what I was coming to is like, you know, when we got on here, I was playing uh Sunrise, Sunset from Fiddler on the Roof. Um because we we sunset programs, right? There are sayings, you know, people come into your life for a reason and sometimes for a season, and then they're gone. Yeah. You know, whether they came to teach you a lesson or they came to to force you to evaluate what it is you're doing. Um and so that was my question, and and we've built it up. You know, like we're like, we gotta do this. What this question is gonna be. But how do you how do you know when something should end? Or what does it take for you to actually pull the trigger when you should quit something?

SPEAKER_06 7:29

Ooh. Or when something quits you, do we know?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

If you didn't have those health challenges, Antonio, would you have quit? Probably not. But I needed to.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Why do you say you needed to? Yeah. Uh for those for those reasons that that even though the work is important, um, and even though I really appreciate the people who are in it, it wasn't as productive or as effective. And so I don't know that it was a good use of my time and energy. And I ended up with more frustrations about it than I ended up with good feelings. It got to the point where I was like, all right, I'm I I I have to go to this meeting, I have to log on to this Zoom, I have to do this, I have to do that. Well, no, you don't have to. I gotta stay black brown and I gotta die. These are the three things that I have to do and pay taxes. No, I don't. That's a choice. That's a choice, it's gotta come to the case. Right? Um and so everything else is a choice, and everything else has consequences. But I didn't have to be there, right? And so I probably would still be there.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

But wait, let me go back. You said somewhere like two years ago you started feeling like maybe this wasn't time. But it wasn't enough for you to go, yeah, I should leave.

unknown 9:01

No.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

What made you say that? That was the retail challenges, too. That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Um being involved in it, right? You know, so so none of us is new to this conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice. None of this is new to existing in a world where white supremacy is the structure under which we we function. And so I have, for it feels like hundreds of years, for at least 32 years, professionally been part of uh dismantling, surviving, uh reconstructing. And this is an organization that does that uh, you know, in its mission statement, like in its core, um, which is how I got involved with it in the first place. And so it it's someplace I wanted to be, and yet I found myself not wanting to actually do what we were doing. Um and so that frustration like went back and forth.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

So, John, tell me, what is something that you thought should end or you knew was gonna end, and you waited too long, or maybe you you waited the right amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Sorry, I'm laughing, which I shouldn't do because it'll make it a hard edit, because you're gonna have to edit this one. I mean, the most obvious one I could talk about is my marriage, but I don't think that's gonna be a healthy thing to do. Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. My career, I'm I've only been in the career I'm in right now vocationally. I've only been paid to do what I'm doing for the last three years. So I had a massive career change as a 51-year-old man. Yes. And the career I'm in now feels like a natural progression and an extension of what I've been doing all these years because in my world first 10 years nonprofit ministry work and then almost two decades of sales, I was always communicating and kind of the default communications coach or mentor or obsessor over words and how to communicate persons. So it was natural, but you know, the leading up to this career change, I kind of like you, Antonio. Like I I stayed in because it felt like the right thing for me to do for a long time. I I got into sales, not because it was a passion of mine, but because I was a young married man with three kids and a mortgage in Los Angeles, and we wanted to have Lori, my kid's mom, stay home with the kids, and we had two incomes. And it's like, well, we're gonna go down to one income. And so the quickest way to give myself a raise is to get into sales. And I say it all the time: like, nobody goes to school and no one goes to college and studies sales. Like you usually you come out of college and you get into sales because you have some sort of expertise that high-end companies need, like engineering or or medical understanding, or those kind of things, or the more the more common plight is you need to make a lot of money. There you go. So you get into sales. Um, and to be quite honest, the very short summary of it is I had degrees of success doing it, but I was never great at it because I was always upstream. I always felt like I was swimming upstream, you know, that I was operating outside of my personality in order to do well. And so I did get to a point like you, Antonio, where I was I would look at this, what I was doing for a living, how stressful it was, and how everything is so time sensitive. And I I would go, why am I doing this? Like this is and the why had always been, well, because I'm providing for my family. And that was a meaningful why for me for a long time. And that sustained me. Like, all right, I don't love the work, but I love what the work allows me to do. It it makes me more feel like more of a man, more of a father, more of a husband, more of a you know, community member, blah, blah, blah, provider. But as though as those things diminished and the kids are older, and it's like, do I even like doing this? No. And so I got to a point where I wrote down on a piece of paper, and I've never been a manifestor type, like write it down, imagine it. Man, I never was, but I wrote down on a piece of paper my ideal job description. Like, if I didn't, if I could just do anything, and I said, help people speak publicly, uh, help people be better communicators, maybe help people prepare for auditions and musicians and those kind of things. And I literally tucked the piece of paper away. Like I didn't I didn't set it up on a wall and think about it. Six months later, I was so frustrated with my work that I just started, I Googled communications firm, Northern California, San Francisco, because I had heard of the company that I ended up working for, and they popped up, and I literally reached out to a dude on LinkedIn and said, I think I'm supposed to work for you. And then I started working for them. I love it. And dude, like two months into the job, uh LinkedIn connected with a dude, vice president of sales, set up a meeting. He probably thought I was interested in hiring them to be my coach, but within two minutes, I'm like, no, I'm I'm here to tell you I think I'm supposed to work for you. Dude, two months into working there, I'm going through my papers and I I get out this thing that I written down and I read what I'd written about my dream job description. I'm like, hmm-mm-mm-mm-mm. Oh, this is what I'm doing now. There you go. This is the work that I so Antonio, when you asked this question about like, how do you know how do we deal with something that's coming to an end? I thought about flipping it and going, well, how do you know when a the the when it's time to start something? Which is sometimes the cue for when to finish something else. And the answer to that was when something chases you so much you can't shake it. You try to shake it and it just keeps showing up and keeps showing up and keeps showing up. And that's how I feel like the career I'm in now is a result of that other career coming to an end, but it's mostly about because this work has chased me everywhere I've gone. And now I finally feel like I'm doing it from within. This is who I am, and it's an extension of who I am. So very long answer to your shortcut. I got a couple questions for you though, John.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Give it to me. Oh, I got, I got, I got question man. Go ahead, question man, because I got a couple.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

So do you because obviously communication is your expertise, and teaching people how to communicate is sort of your passion. But you said you were in sales for so long, didn't really enjoy it, but you did it for your family. Did you view your time in the church as you being a salesman the same way?

SPEAKER_04 15:54

And what product was the last time I let you ask a question, I know.

SPEAKER_06 15:58

Antonio, no.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

I looked in your eyes, I'm like, yeah, he's thinking what I'm looking at. Bro, you did you need to start writing stuff down and putting it in envelopes, Antonio, so that after he answers the question, you can no, why? I thought about it and then he asked it. Like it was he was right here. So can you finish that sentence so I under make sure I am answering the right question?

SPEAKER_06 16:16

Understanding your relationship to communication as being a strength, but having somewhat of an adverse reaction to sales. Yeah. But you were successful in sales, but it wasn't your passion. So I'm saying, did you consider when you your time in the church as you being a salesman? Similar to the way that you were selling uh in your previous job to this one?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And if so, what were you selling? In real time while I was doing it, no, I did not consider myself a salesperson while I was doing it. Okay. Looking back, yeah, yeah, I was trying to influence. I was trying to move people to a certain thing. Now, I'll tell you though, in your question lies my problem, why I say I wasn't great at sales, is I'm not a highly competitive person. I am not, I don't, I don't get off on murdering the other dude. Like I have a different perspective on life. I feel like there's plenty to go around. I I get it. If there's someone's an enemy of mine, and okay, I might get a little bit of that competitive juice flowing. But what I found like really successful salespeople tended to be like, I'm gonna get every I'm gonna beat that other guy, I'm gonna be the number one. I just don't have that when it comes to accomplishing numerical things. I have it with performing. And so when I go back to preaching and being in the church, I felt like I was always performing. I was always on. And a lot of it was internal, though. I mean, like I believed, and you talked LeBron about like nothing's more powerful than a belief, right? So I did believe to the point where I abandoned friends. Hello, hello, where I left career to the place that you all like to laugh about. Um, I mean, I I had a deep, deep belief, but it I felt like I was built for it. Like I was built to persuade, I was built to preach, I was built to convey important things in an urgent manner. And but there was the church that I was a part of was culty enough where it was so consumed with recruiting new members that it felt like sales. Like you were successful when the numbers went up, and we were stacked against one another in a competitive fashion because the culture of the church was very patriarchal, very like militaristic and very sports-oriented, sports analogies, military analogies. And I I I adopted a lot of that mentality, but even then I didn't feel like I was myself. I've that adopting that competitive edge of let's grow no matter what. I woke up feeling nauseous sometimes, like literally, like I this does not feel right. So, yeah, there was a sales element to it. Um, but I loved the performance element. I loved speaking, I love getting up in front of people and and passionately trying to get them to think differently about something. I love telling stories, I miss that.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

And my question was gonna be it was different, actually, funny enough. It was, but it was about the church. And I was gonna say, how long before you left did you know you needed to leave? I saw that, Antonio. I see you because that's that's what I mean when I say, like, how do you know when something is supposed to end? Yeah, right? Because that was important to you, right? Yeah, maybe not the sales piece, but the the belief and the performance, right? That was important to you, and yet I know you didn't like wake up one day and go, Well, I'm done with this, and walk out, right? So you knew for I don't know, three days, three months, three years that you were leaving, but that's its own domestic evolution, right? And so I was coming at it when I was talking about this resignation, and there are other examples that everybody's got, where you know, like this is no longer for me. Yeah, that the season for this is done, and yet that isn't at least for me, the the acknowledgement or the understanding of that is very rarely when I actually walk out the door.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a it's a slow leak and not a popped tire, right? I like that. It's the it's not a a flat tire. But you know when the tire's yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

And you know when yeah, you know when there's a hole in it, but you know, you gotta change it.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

I so this is I want to give a really simple answer. The most recent ending of church affiliation is not the one maybe you we're talking about right now, because the one we're talking about right now is like I joined a church in college, and that's when I knew you all really well. Right. And that church is a very specific culty flavor that I that Lori and I, as a couple, left the full-time ministry in 2003 and then left the church in 2007. Okay. And then I have left Christianity as a whole for real, like three three plus years ago, but I knew for like seven or eight before I bounced. What does that mean? What leaving Christianity as a whole? Yeah. I don't go to church. I don't call myself a Christian. I can't I can no longer get with it. I can't get with the program anymore. Gotcha. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 22:20

Does that mean you're I'm just trying to get a definition. Like, does that mean you're agnostic? Does that just mean you're you're open to other religions, or you're just like, I got I'm gonna do the spiritual thing and I'm good?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Or something else? I am so comfortable not knowing the answer to that question. Yeah. You're living life then. See, you're one of the few people who live life. Because look, man, I'm like I see the benefit. I, you know, I see the benefit of church when it's healthy, of synagogue when it's healthy, of a mosque when it's healthy, of a non-religious community gathering around an idea when it's healthy. Because we're communal people. We need a community. And the a lot for me, that was my community for so many years, and I had different iterations of it. I had the crazy one in college. And then that one went through a big reform. Honestly, there was a systemic shift in that church that was connected to the internet, frankly. I mean, once once people could send emails with attachments, do y'all remember when that started? Oh, yes. No, but it was like 2002, 2003, then information could get spread real quickly. Like that changed our church culture, and that was the trigger to there were we would have these meetings, open forums, or like people could finally get up and talk about what they really think. And and Lori and I were like in the middle of that, and that was one of our first realizations. We're like, oh, we're getting yelled at because they're mad at those people two levels above us, but we're the face of the organization, so we're absorbing it. And there was a point there, and this is like going back to the original question, we're like, I don't think this is what we signed up for. Like we signed up for a different version of this. This is not like, you know. Um, but to to come back to your question, LeBron, like um, I am I can't call myself an atheist because I I don't think I don't think that God does not exist. Like I don't I don't take a hard stance on he or it or she does not exist. I call I'm just way more comfortable with the mystery and the mysticism of everything. I love people who say I don't know. And some of my favorite people are Christian mysticists, people who are like, look, I don't have it figured out, but in this current, like in this flesh that I have and the few years that I have on this planet, I'm gonna adopt these symbols, I'm gonna adopt this ritual because it's my community and I'm gonna do good within this. Those are some of my favorite people. And sometimes when you go through an evolution like I have, you end up hating on that stuff. And I'm like, no, man, yeah, it's still so beautiful, it's still beautiful. Gotcha. So you I just can't I can't go to church and and just be like, uh-huh, yep. It's all yep, I got it. Uh-huh. Yeah, this all makes sense. Like, I just I can't shut that part of my brain off. I can't be there fully. Um and there's a point when my ex and I were having these conversations because we this was a big part of our deviating from one another, was where I said, I I just so much of this doesn't make any sense to me at all. And she said, Something has to make sense to you for you to have faith in it. And I said, Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yes. And she's like, Well, I I just have that faith. I'm like, I envy that a little bit. Like, I I sometimes wish I that's just not how my brain works. I it's just yeah, you know, if I can't, I don't have to make sense of everything, but stuff has to make sense.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

It doesn't somewhat make sense. I can't just go. Yeah. So you dropped the hard G, and now you went to the lowercase g. Not a level.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Now I'm a big G.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I have to tell you guys, I was not expecting to talk about this at all. That's why this is called Three for the Black. Yes. But you know, hey, hey, let me talk about this because um I if when I look back at my college years, you know, there are I have two very different experiences. I have my my time with you all, and then I have the church. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Broken in half.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Straight broken. And it's a like I it's October. October 26, 1991. I could put the date on when I got baptized and joined the church. Next thing you know, Antonio, I have you and David over my house, and I'm cooking, and I'm trying to get you to come to church with me. And y'all like, hey, time out.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

And he's gonna have a bleep on it. He's gonna have a bleep on it.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I I like you a lot. Yes. But you gotta stop with that bullshit. So check this out.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

And that was that was a blow to my ego. I'm like, oh, okay, but I stopped partying, so I stopped hanging with this with the freaky new Delta group because what do we have in common?

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Didn't have any opportunity. I mean, it took up all of your time. That took up as a neophyte in the church, you were yeah, I'm going to Bible study. I gotta be here, I gotta do this, I gotta be out on the walk, I gotta do these things.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

And gentlemen, thus began a long uh several decades journey of I am responding to external stimuli and I'm following what other people are saying I should do, which is why my recent career change was so fulfilling because it's from inside. Yes, and that's very different for me. But what I was gonna say, Antonio, was like this this is a testament to who you are as a friend and a brother, is that despite this breaking that was no fault of yours, we stayed close. You were in my wedding, I was in your wedding. I gave you plenty of options and outs for you to be like, all right, John, peace out. Like we'll we'll be cool, but we don't need to be, you know, homies. And uh I know that I drew I pulled away, um, but I feel like you never did. And so I genuinely, genuinely appreciate that about you. For real. If I was black, I'd say you a real one.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

Oh, I'm a real one. Oh, you're a real one, yeah. Uh and there's a yeah, there's a there's a lot in there. But LeBron, you haven't you haven't addressed the question, question man. Yes, sir. Like when has when has that has there been that opportunity um where you knew something was no longer for you? And how long did it take you to go from the realization to the to the to the getting up?

SPEAKER_06 29:05

Yeah, I would say, unlike a lot of people I know, I live my life a hundred percent with intentionality. I do everything on purpose. I design it, I write it down like like John did. I had things in my in my wallet I would carry around for 10 years. Like when we're in college, I'm like, okay, I've got to make 30,000. This is a long time ago. Uh well, I've got to make 30,000 L. After drive a black BMW 325i convertible. I gotta have a Range Rover, I gotta be married by the age of 30, I gotta make my first million by the age of 33. I'm gonna have four boys. Like I had planned my entire life out.

unknown 29:45

Damn.

SPEAKER_06 29:45

UCLA is the only school I applied to because in sixth grade I knew that's where I'm going. I'm either going to work at a post office or I'm going to UCLA. So I only applied to one school.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

So I love that those are your two choices, bro. And what was it? Hey, that's UCLA.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Hey, that's a federal job.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Yeah, that pension right now until Trump. That's right. So yeah. But what was it about UCLA? And uh I I appreciate the intentionality that that made it the school you were gonna go to.

SPEAKER_06 30:12

Well, no one in my family had ever been to college, so I was at home, I was the only child, and I was watching a basketball game. It was UCLA versus Berkeley. And I was like, look at how excited these white people are. Their faces are painted, their shirts are off. I'm like, that looks like fun. I'm like, I want to go there. I said, so whoever wins this game, that's where I'm going. And you said I only won that basketball game.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

That is incredible, man. Oh my God. Who are you with? Were you with Papa Jeans?

SPEAKER_06 30:42

Papa Jeans, you're by myself on a Saturday morning, and I can see it clear as day, and I was like, that's where I'm going. Then my parents like, no, bro.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

So if you were if you were watching a different channel and it was freaking USC playing, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. That is a scary thing. That's a scary thought. But you know what?

SPEAKER_04 30:58

I mean, it is, but it isn't, yeah, right? So I've had a lot of Germany.

SPEAKER_06 31:04

I guess when things need to end for me and when they're ending, I know, usually pretty much in advance, most of the time. So, like when I was teaching in my 10th year, I'm like, I'm done teaching. I'm like, I don't know why, but this is it. I said, I just need a sign. So I was teaching at New Roads. And whenever my kids would say something silly or something, I said, You test tube baby. That was always my line. And then this one girl did something crazy. I said, You test two baby, and she ran out the room crying. I'm like, and the kid's like, LeBron, dude, how did you know she was a test tube baby? I was like, I didn't. Oh no. And so I was like, that's my sign. I went to the principal. I'm like, David, I'll finish this year out. But if I actually met a test tube baby in my class, it's time for me to go.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

I remember when that happened.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Bro, that's the that's the kind of thing that only happens at a school called New Roads or Wildwood, or you know, there's no test two babies at you know at Crunchy. Yeah. Oh my God.

unknown 32:16

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

So you were how old when that happened, huh?

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Oh man. That was in like early 2000s, like 2003 or four or something. Something like that, yeah. And then the second time I knew is when I was working at Milken, and I'm like, okay, I need a change. Like, this is this is it. So then that's why I applied to grad school. I'm like, I've done five years, I need a change. You know, and then when I did real estate after I left New Rose, I did real estate and that was going. And then the end told me it was coming. So the market crashed, and I was sitting on$11 million worth of uh debt because I owned$11 million worth of real estate. And when the market crashed, it was only worth about five million. So I'm like, I'm paying$11 million in payments on something that's only worth four or five million. And so that's one mistake I made is I tried to keep the properties longer than I should have. So it was my first experience. So I held on to the properties too long, but it ended for sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Did you have people in your ears saying, hey man, just ride this out, just write it out?

SPEAKER_06 33:27

You should. Yeah. Okay. You know, because I was like, you know, you I was like, I can't file bankruptcy, I can't let this go. But you know, if I knew Trump back then, I'd have been like, I'll do this bankruptcy thing six, seven times and come out on the other end. Is this the twin Land Rovers? Yeah, the twin uh twin Range Rovers. Yeah, me and Al had to match up Range Rovers. Then I bought a custom Range Rover from Wildwife Gina at a time. Uh bought a white-on-white, had it customized with piano black and had it delivered on a flatbed with um a bow on it on Christmas Day. All my neighbors hated.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Oh, you're one of those crazy people that I see in the commercials. I'm like, what psychopath would do delivers a car with a bow on it without telling their spouse that how did their spouse not even know about this transaction? That was you. That was me, by the way, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:19

Been there, done that.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

But LeBron, you were saying that you're very intentional.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

And you know pretty much when things are gonna end. And you gave us the example of the test two babies, which is a phrase I use quite often. That and you crack baby. There you go, yep. And but what is that? So I I'm gonna I'm gonna go back and ask you like so what does that time period look like? Even if you like, because if you know, and this is why I was asking John about leaving the church or right, or my example, like I knew two and a half years ago that I should I should get off this board, yeah. Like I should be done. I just didn't want to, I was I was a bitch. I didn't want to have that conversation, so I was like, well, I'll just inertia too much inertia.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Well, you have to go with this now. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

Yeah. What is that like how long does it take from the okay, I know that this is no longer what I want to be doing till you're not doing it anymore?

SPEAKER_06 35:18

For me, typically about a year, because then it's me planning what am I gonna do next. And I think for a lot of people, it's not the end that bothers them, it's what comes next after the end. And I think that's what makes people pause or hesitate or not execute when they know in their gut, like this is the end. Because they're like, well, if I jump now, do I have a parachute? Is it a soft landing?

SPEAKER_04 35:45

And so you already know that you're gonna go, yes, but you're setting up the next thing to step out of it and into the next thing.

SPEAKER_06 35:54

Exactly. Because for me personally, I don't like to operate out of emotion because I feel like me or most people I see make bad decisions when they're emotional. So I try to go through the emotional part, then step out and be like, okay, now let's rationally, we know this is gonna end. How do we make this as painless as possible, or how do we make this transition as smooth as possible? Try to be intentional because emotions are, we all know what emotions are.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

So where does Harvard come into play? Was that part of something coming to an end? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:32

That's when I was done teaching the second time. I was done teaching at Milken. I'm like, it's time to go. I've did five years here, it's time to go. I'm like, but I need to, if I'm gonna leave education for a second time, I need to leave with a bang. And so I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of my students to Harvard, and then I was actually talking to my son Nigel. I said, you know what, son? One day when you grow up, I want you to go to Harvard. And Nigel was like six or seven, seven or eight. He goes, Well, Dad, if you want me to go to Harvard, why don't you go first? And there you go.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

The miles of babes. The miles of babes.

SPEAKER_06 37:15

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Antonio, you tr you kind of teased something out in me, and I'm wondering if you relate to it in your your board of directors thing, because part of what kept me on longer in the short in the ministry was a an obligation that I felt to the people that I would be letting down when I leave. Yes. And so there's a the sense of duty that kept me. There's a sense that I inherited from my father, whereas if it doesn't hurt, it's not good, it's not right. Like my dad just he never said that out loud, but he lived a much shorter life than he should have because he always did things the hard way. And he his biggest strength was pushing through pain, which has its merits and its place, but also killed the man quite literally. And so I stayed on for duty for a long time until I realized that it was very egocentric of me to think it's gonna fall apart when I leave. Interesting point. Thank you. Like you I should be thinking about me, my family first, and then these other people over here second. And it sounds like LeBron, you're better at that than I am. Just different. Not better than that. But different, but like I did that sense of duty, do you relate to that?

SPEAKER_04 38:43

I say better. I did me too. Was that well, and so I had a teacher in grad school, um, and he was a theater teacher, and I was in grad school for education, but there was a there was a black community, and it was centered around the theater department. And so there were a lot of undergrads there. Um, my girlfriend at the time and I, who were both in the program, um were doing a lot, you know, graduate students have to write a play and then they have to put on the play. And at one point in one of the plays, you know, I was having trouble. I was in grad school, LeBron, as you can you can attest, there's a lot of reading. Lots, um, lots and stuff. And this professor said to me, theater teacher said to me, at some point you have to learn to say no. Right? And I was like, Well, but what about all of these people who are right of the grad student who's written the play, the other actors who are in the play, the person who's directing, it happened to be him at the time, like all these other people who are engaged in this are counting on me to be there. He said, and they're counting on you to be whole. And so if you don't learn to say no, then you will constantly say yes, and no nothing will get your full attention, nothing will get your full energy. And so I I went home and I came back the next day and I said, I can't do this play. He said, What do you mean you can't do this play? I need we need you in this play. I said, But you just told me. He said, Yes, but that was for other people. Like we need. But I've always been the person to not want to generate conflict in a space that was comfortable or relational, right? Um and so I just it it struck me in writing that that, you know, we sunset programs. Like things come to an end. And that's an opportunity, whether it's like LeBron does, you know, to plan out something new, or it's an opportunity to to step into something new, like you were talking about with your job. You know, you had manifested it, whether that was your intention or not. But you also reached out on LinkedIn and were like, hey, I'm done here. Let's go, let's go do your thing. Um and so that is that's what comes afterwards, but you have to you have to be able to end it first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:26

Right. Um hey, I so that was the yeah. I just want to say I just realized I had an epiphany, just so you guys know. I realized that when things end for me, I didn't go to school. So when when high school so and I could as a child, I couldn't wait to get out of San Diego. The weather was beautiful, but I just needed a place bigger. So I knew LA, UCLA was my out. I could end, in a sense, living in in San Diego and go to LA. Then when I got tired of teaching, Harvard was my out. So now where I am in my career, I know I can see the ending. So I'm like, now I gotta go get a doctorate in preparation for the next level because I can already see the end of this particular phase I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Damn, bro. Some guys just buy a motorcycle. You collect degrees.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

Oh, I'm gonna just buy a motorcycle.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

I mean, let's this is why you're better, LeBron. Your your your crises end with you having an education from the Ivy Lee school and then a doctorate, oh man, a PhD. From a you. Yes. That's really I'm glad you have that epiphany. That's wild. Well, when I was thinking about this beforehand, the the the word surrender kept coming up to me. And because even what you're talking about with the board or you're talking about with like the real estate stuff, at some point, and I I I can see where I was walking. I can see this the sidewalk, I can see the crack, I can see the street I was in in Northern California. And this was with my marriage, where I just I was fighting so hard to make it work. I was fighting so hard. And I kept, I just kept feeling like there was dead end after dead end after dead end. And let's face it, we come from a generation where we esteem people who overcome things, like just push through the pain, push through the pain, push through the pain. Yep. And I finally just got to a point, and not just marriage, but career wise too, where it's like, I surrender, man. I I just I don't know what's next. I'm not a great planner like LeBron is. I just know that I can't keep doing this. And I'm gonna surrender to that reality without knowing what's around the corner, without, without even planning for what's around the corner. I just have to surrender to the The fact that I can't keep living like this. And sometimes that happens internally, sometimes it happens externally. Health issues force you to surrender.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

I was admitting the fact that it wasn't giving me what I wanted from it. And so it was an obstacle unto itself. And I didn't want it to be. Right? When you talk about romantic relationships, he's like, there are a lot of things about you I really like. And then, you know, you don't flush. Like it's an obstacle to me. If you're healthy, keep the mic on. I'm gonna forget it. Um but but my point being, I could have continued in that fashion. You know, but like and not to be really extreme about it, but like you said, you know, your dad pushed through. It wasn't pain I was pushing through, it was frustration. It was other people's choices about how we worked. It was, and maybe this is an ego thing, but it was the collaborative nature of all decisions being made by consensus. It's like at some point, you know, you have to cut bait and let's go. Like we have to move on. Um and so there were a lot of small things that ended up being the things that made it, and so for me, I wish I was more like LeBron, right? Because in there is an admission that this is coming to an end, despite what we would like it to be, right? It's like I really like this, and I really like you, and I want this, I want this to be something that it's not, and not admitting that it's not, and so like let's go.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

That brings up a question that I have. So, is America coming to an end?

SPEAKER_06 46:09

Whoa, yeah, that would be a definite yes, yeah, and we see the signs when you're in abuse in an abusive relationship. You see the signs. Your friends or relatives see the signs.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

They tell you, but yeah, but I love him. He hits me because he loves me. You just don't understand him the way I.

SPEAKER_06 46:30

But I love the flag salute. I love my flag. I love apple pie.

SPEAKER_04 46:37

Let me let me let me qualify that because the answer is complex. Um like people. No, people are simple, which is why this dude got elected. But the the republic that we know is the United States of America is going through a domestic evolution. And there may be a country called the United States at the end of this evolution, but it will be vastly different and varied. And that could be a positive thing. It could be a very good thing. It could get to the end of it where all of the norms that we have taken for laws actually get made into laws. You know, we could have the Electoral College be done away with uh so that we're not beholden to a small number of people because they live in a state that has two senators, right? Like all of these things that are representative of white supremacy as a system that are enshrined in the Constitution are being destroyed piece by piece and brick by brick. And there will be those at the end of this, whether that's 2028 or 2096, there will be those who I was just giving you a Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_06 47:58

I'm like, what the hell you know? I want to be on the email list. Antonio joined the church. He joined the church.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

But but there will be those who say, put it back the way it was. Right. And there will be those of us who say, nah, the way it was was f there will be those of us who say, okay, you wanted Plessy versus Ferguson to be real. You wanted the Dred Scott decision to say that, you know, people of the global majority could not and would not be citizens. Well, that's what's happening right now. This stopping of asylum claims, this kidnapping and human trafficking ring that they've got going on, um, where they're just pulling people off the street and putting them on jets and sending them everywhere. Um all of these things are the destruction of what they consider to hold sacred, the Constitution. And so what the United States is going to look like afterwards, it's a big open question. And to I'm a conspiracy theorist, I hate you. But there are people who are planning what it's going to look like.

SPEAKER_06 49:04

No doubt. They're definitely planning, they've been planning for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Sounds like you have thoughts on this subject, LeBron. Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 49:12

Too many. I mean, I America is coming to an end, which is sad. I mean, it's not going to be the United States, it's going to be the divided states of America. Just like we had the Department of Defense. Now, one thing people keep saying, I can't believe Trump changed it to the Department of War. I'm like, that's the only thing he's done so far that I actually agree with. He's actually telling the truth. We are a department of war.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

He's being honest. He said, defense.

SPEAKER_06 49:39

Don't no one's ever to attack America. So we don't defend America. Like, military doesn't defend America. We go kill people for America. So it's going to be divided states of America. The sad part to me is that there's a few wealthy, influential people who are trying to create America designed the way they want it to be, which means this current system has to end. But the sad part is that the people who are not rich, which means white, black, brown, and everyone else, they've divided us with bullshit so that we don't recognize that if we just stuck together for six months, we get them people out of here and we can be back to our United States. But they're masters of the the media and controlling messages and things. And so we fight over stupid stuff instead of real or the real enemy is anybody with a billion dollars or more. That's the the real enemy.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

So you as a futurist see oligarchy as our future and division.

SPEAKER_06 50:47

As a phase. Because I just look at well, Antonio, you're the the historian. I just know that when in Europe, when it was only white people, like the way they want it now, all they did was fight and kill each other, anyways. So if they get rid of us, they're gonna fight and kill each other over something. It's gonna be, you know, the blonde hair versus the brown hair, the blue eyes versus the green eyes. Ask Jane Elliott.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Um But it's a it's an interesting, and you haven't weighed in on this yet, John. Uh I noticed you threw the question out there and you were like, get away from it, it's gonna explode.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

No, I want to hear what you have to say. You all read the parable of the sewer? I have Tavia Butler.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

It's on my shelf, and I started it, and then I was like, this feels like a newspaper. Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Do you do you know you? I mean, we started our podcast by a trip to the Octavia Butler lab at Los Angeles. We sure did. We sure did. We had a little field trip before the class even started. We had a first field trip. Um yes, John.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Write that down. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Okay. So she wrote that book in the 90s. Yes. And I think she is she is renowned as perhaps the first black woman author of sci-fi, recognized at least. You know, this is a sci-fi. I don't know if they have that right. That's the third. So she wrote in the 90s and it centers in on Los Angeles. And it is a different 2024, right? I forget the the year. Maybe it was that that close, yeah. And it's a lot of the dystopian future that you talk about, LeBron, the people fighting each other, and it's not even necessarily race, it's it's resources. And you know what the number one resource is that they're fighting over? Is it water or air? Water. Water, yes. Neighborhoods in LA become encampments that are walled up and that are defended, and there's marauders and there's gangs, and there's, you know, let's and it's it that's one of the first books that I've read that that made me think, oh shit, this could happen. This could happen. When the fires happen and they're like, you know, and people people behave freakishly when they when you start taking away their resources. Yes, they do. That's when stuff gets and and we so even though we laugh or chuckle or don't chuckle at the conspiracy theories or the things that you're saying, LeBron, or like some some of that stuff feels far-fetched, like really, we're gonna have wars against each other, but you know, it's it feels a little uh like a little uh out there. Yep, but then when I think if water was limited and we're fighting because we're thirsty, there is people will go to great lengths to feed themselves and drink water.

SPEAKER_06 53:47

And that's one of the things someone told me in a meeting once, Antonio come back, is they said, you know, when a society is about to come to an end, when you have to pay for basic resources such as water. When waste are bottling water and you have to pay money for water, they're like that's the first sign the end is coming. Because now, do you know there are corporations who pay for air, airspace? Yep. Because you can only certain companies can only pollute so much of the air. So being in the capitalist people, they said, Oh, well, I'll create a company, which means I then get airspace. So they just have a little office and they have air space, and companies pay them lots of money to use to pollute their airspace that they own.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 54:36

So we're selling water and air.

unknown 54:40

Damn.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

And 70% of the planet is water, yeah, and we pay for water.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this is us staying on target, but your question brings us all the way back to when do you realize something is coming to an end? And when do you actually acknowledge that by your actions? So as we talk about, right, you talk about the parable of the sower, LeBron's talking about people selling air and water. And the question that you asked was, is the United States coming to an end? Right. We can either acknowledge that the train is coming off the rails or has come off the rails, or we can continue to say, Oh, he's just outside the norms. Oh, they're just outside the norms. Oh, you know, we just have to get to the midterms, we just have to get to the next presidential election because the constitution says he can't run. Well, Steve Bannon already has a plan. Yes, he does. Project 2025 already has a plan, right? To get around that little thing called an amendment to the constitution. And so when do we figure out, oh, this is ending? And are we LeBron where we're planning what's coming next? Or are we you where we write down what we hope and you know it'll manifest because it's in the ether, it's in the zeitgeist, it's in non-local consciousness. Or are we me who just can't drag into my feet about, well, I don't want it to end there. I like everybody voting. I like everybody having an opportunity to have their voices heard until there are no more voices to be heard.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

I I just I can't shake my belief in people being good and in the majority of people I've encountered and talked to and know are somewhere in the middle and not crazy extreme. And yet the extremes, because of everything, have taken over. And I think what I'm hoping is that this is the end of this experiment of Donald Trump. That's my hope. That's my optimistic hope is that Mamdani represents another positive experiment where someone actually came out and said, I am a democratic socialist. Socialist. And I am so hoping that New York does well because there are so many reasons that for the soul of our country, that needs to go well. And I said this a long, I said it when Charlie Kirk was murdered. I said this when Trump was elected. This is not good for our soul. Like in family members of mine who are like, well, I don't like Trump, but I like that he's gonna appoint conservative Supreme Court justices, and I like that he's gonna keep babies from being murdered in the womb. This these are their words, not mine. And I would counter with don't you see how bad this is for our soul? That once you get this genie out of the bottle, and now this is what leadership looks like, this is what we're people are gonna repeat this now. And but I'm I'm hoping it's so far bad. It so far does not represent what most people think, feel, and how they operate that we're gonna come back and go, all right, I'm glad we got that out of our system. That's what I'm hoping is coming to an end, this Trump experiment. Do you think it's a Trump experiment, though? I don't think Project 2025 happens without Trump. I I think they there's such a disregard.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

You think it happens without Trump? Really? Trump is candidate X.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, he's candidate X.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

Trump is candidate X.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

That's it. So you need someone like Trump, though.

SPEAKER_04 58:34

You need somebody, yeah, sure. Yeah. But I don't think he's unique. He's he's a he's a more charismatic Ted Cruz. Yeah. He's a fatter Steven Miller, he's a maler Pam Bondi, he's a lighter Clarence Thomas. Like, he's not unique.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

As much as he likes to do it. You think if if of that list of people, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 58:59

If if he if he if he dropped dead of a heart attack or something and they put that other guy, uh JD Vance. JD Vance. Eyeliner. You think the party gonna stop? The 2022 project plan, the party won't stop. No, not it might even accelerate. No, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 59:19

I I mean I because J.D. Vance is then eligible to run in 2020.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

There's a part of me that still says that a part of human decency will take over. That the JD Vance's of the world, the Stephen Melisty Bannon, the all the names you mentioned, they benefit from someone as blustery and empty and frankly unintelligent as Trump being the mouthpiece. And so as long as they benefit from the from his manner, the way he operates, then they're gonna prop him up. But once he's gone, the cult falls apart. And now it's like, all right, how are we gonna compete on the open market here without our cult leader? I don't know. But I don't see a JD Vance becoming a Trump. I don't I I see a Stephen Miller becoming a Trump, but uh I think that's played out.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:16

So this is the part where you can't let optimism blind you to history.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:22

Yeah, that's where I was going. Spoke on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

You can't let op right so Joseph McCarthy did what he did in the 50s. Reagan got elected and he was an actor in the 80s. Lee Atwater was pulling the strings. Richard Nixon's right. So there's there is always New Gingrich in his contract with America. Like there are, and those are just in the last 50 years, right? We go back to Andrew Jackson, you know, extending the vote to all white men and then being elected and assassinating and and killing and driving out Native Americans. Wounded knees. Like the history of the United States is built on this continued propagation of white supremacy, and as much as I want to believe the words, right? Nicole Hannah-Jones opens up the 1619 project talking about black people are the most patriotic because we actually believe the words, and so we have worked to make the country live up to those, even in the face of violence, hypocrisy, terrorism. You know, that's why you have uh uh uh what's her name? Uh the longest surviving member, uh survivor of the Tulsa race mass.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Yeah, just passed away. 105 years old. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

Yeah, but but any anytime you have even black folk going away and saying, you know what, that's cool. We're gonna go over here to this patch of land and we're gonna scratch out a living and we're gonna make this. No, no, no. Even that's a threat, right? Yep. And so you can't let optimism about human nature blind you to the reality of human actions. And systems that are in place. Sure, but people build systems and systems function in the way they were designed. So the Constitution and the Electoral College function in order to keep the majority of people, black, white, brown, Asian, Native American, from exercising any real political power. And anytime they gain economic power, right? Trump's famous for saying, oh, they don't look Indian because Indians are allowed to have casinos because that's tribal land and they're making money. No, no, no. So he's gonna go sue them because they're what, taking money from him? No, they're not. You're a failed businessman. Like, this is the best kind you've ever had. So is it coming to an end? This version of it. Is the whole thing coming to an end? Probably not. Probably not, but this version.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:57

But John, I appreciate your optimism. And so it it intrigues me like how optimistic you remain after all the things Antonio just said about history, because those are things I was thinking, like, how can you be how can someone be optimistic and think someone in America who's in power now is going to obviously become civilized and do what's best for humanity? Because I want to know when do you think, either of you think racism will end in America? Just we're talking about things coming to an end. What would it take for racism to come to an end?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

You all teach kids, I mean, kids are becoming much more aware of racism, they're becoming more aware of their privilege, white kids. That's no magic pill to it. I'm not saying that it's like it's amazing. But I think when you talk to kids these days, they're so intolerant if we use the wrong pronouns in a good way. Like they're they're very defensive for the underdog in a sense, like more tuned in to the plight of those who haven't had the opportunities they've had. At least I'm seeing that grow. And maybe I'm a little high because I I listened to episode 26 and I heard Louis Vett and Julie, the two really good teachers who are are conditioned, who said out loud, Oh, I am what is what did they say? I am um indoctrinating. I am indoctrinating children. That is 100%. Like maybe I'm letting that I'm intoxicated on that idea. Um so perhaps I I see the optimism in the kids being exposed to more and and information being more readily available and therefore not as easily duped. But then I also see this backdrop of the growing distance that the algorithm creates in us where everybody's just in their different separate camps, and the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poor, and the middle class is disappearing, and that is a recipe for disaster. So, but I guess it like honestly, LeBron, my my bent, my psychological bent is optimistic. It's just not I agree. I just I don't know. That's how I live. Maybe when I look back on the 27 plus episodes that we have created together, maybe my optimism is a direct result of my white privilege. Where you go back and go, you know what? Things have pretty much worked out for us. I don't have to worry all that much. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah. Versus James Baldwin's like, we've never believed the myth. So we're over here like struggling. Yep. If you're not mad, you're not paying attention, kind of stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not mad. I mean, maybe that's maybe that's detachment.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:41

Well, you know what I am sad about ending. This is episode one. So this is episode thirty. Twenty nine, thirty. It's the end of season one. Yes, it is. Um thank you for taking the ride. We appreciate you. We've had a great time. It's incredible. We'll be back with season two. Probably February first, somewhere around there. And whether or not it's problemetic for you, it'll probably be every two weeks. That being said, I just want to say thank you, John. Thank you, LeBron. I I I don't know that I would have actually started doing this. But now that we've started, I I know that I have a problem stopping it. Thank goodness. Because it's an opportunity. And I told you, you know, I came home sick today, and I I sat in the bed eating some soup, talking about I just gotta be good enough to go record. Bro. We we won't be on for two hours, but bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

Your C minus on soup beats most people's A plus on Gatorade.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:44

For sure, for sure, man. So I appreciate you, my brothers, man. And we we are a United States. We represent the United States and its principles and everything it's it's supposed to be. So let's keep doing what we're doing in season two. Left on Founders.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Left on Founders. We are out.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:03

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok, or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left On Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Beautiful song.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:27

Oh my God. I'm not even asking what y'all are listening to.