Ep. 31 — They Love MLK Once a Year. They Hate His Ideas Daily.

Season Two of Three for the Founders kicks off exactly where America gets uncomfortable: at the gap between the quote and the policy.

Recorded on Martin Luther King Jr. Day and launching February 2, 2026, this season premiere opens with a toast to brotherhood—and immediately asks the question nobody wants answered out loud: how do you celebrate the Dream on Monday and dismantle it by Tuesday? From a Los Angeles studio, Reynaldo Antonio, Jon Augustine, and Lybroan James return sharper, looser, and less interested in pretending symbolism counts as action. Thirty episodes deep and freshly into 2026, the brothers set the tone for a season that refuses to separate history, power, and the people paying the price.

The conversation moves with purpose and side-eye. MLK Day as performance versus policy. Free parks, closed futures. DEI rollbacks framed as “fairness.” Whether arguing online is civic duty or just free labor for the algorithm. Ten years into the Trump era, the hosts trace what’s changed—and what’s simply stopped hiding. Along the way: Ghanaian “welcome home” moments, family shout-outs, jokes about thrill-seeking, and a sobering reframe—when your daily life already runs on adrenaline, you don’t need to jump out of planes to feel alive. The laughs land, but so do the receipts: January 6 rebranded, racism deployed as a tool, and capitalism quietly doing what it’s always done—consolidate.

Episode highlights include:

• Why MLK is safest to America as a soundbite, not a blueprint
• How DEI became the villain the moment it threatened comfort
• The myth of “both sides” and who benefits from pretending power is neutral
• Racism as strategy, wealth capture as the endgame
• Whether people are complex—or just committed to lying to themselves
• How repetition, attention, and outrage reshape what we call “truth”

Listener takeaways for 2026:

• Don’t accept the first version of any story—ask say more
• Engage online only where there’s real relationship; starve the bots
• Read Black authors to re-center history and reality
• Spend your energy building family, community, and coalitions—not defending myths
• Remember: symbolism is cheap. Power is not.

Season Two doesn’t offer comfort. It offers clarity. Three for the Founders is back—measured, unfiltered, and unimpressed by hollow tributes. Like, subscribe, and pull up. The dream deserves better than a holiday.

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Oh, that's cute. But now they're officially engaged.

SPEAKER_03 0:02

All right.

unknown 0:03

He got down on one knee in a boat.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

He did. In a boat.

unknown 0:06

On a boat.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Whoa. It's official. It's official. You get out on one knee in a boat. I mean.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Because that could go a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_04 0:15

I got down on one knee in a boat. I was just trying to get out of prison.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Okay. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

I was on one knee in a boat. So took me 500 years to get back home.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

And we're back. Thank you for joining us in Three for the Founders. Grand opening.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Grand closing. We're brothers. We're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five. Alright, cut and print. Beautiful guys. Dynomite.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years, and now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yo, start us. Happy to do it, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

Yes. Pleasure to be with you. Welcome to season two for three for the founders. You can see that we're in this very fancy place. Don't get used to it. Because we sure as hell are not going to get used to it. This is season two, episode one. Antonio hooked us up by bringing some drink. We are all a few sips in already, but let's start off by saying cheers to Brotherhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Cheers to Brotherhood. Here we go. And happy 2026. Yeah, sure. Appreciate you. Happy New Year.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Absolutely. So we can't believe that this started off as just a conversation between three friends. It's been going on for a few decades. And someone had an insane idea to actually record it and say, let's invite some other people into this. And here we are, third.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

John did John had the idea. It was John's. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Third fault. Yeah. You can okay. I'll take the blame for anything that goes badly, and then we'll take credit. It's good. Yes, and uh then we decided to record it, and then we decided to share it. Thirty episodes later, season one is in the books. This is season two, episode one, Martin Luther King Day. We're here in somewhere near downtown Los Angeles in a podcasting studio. Yeah. And we have a vague idea of what we're going to talk about today.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Which should be bad news for everybody because when we try to stay on target, that's usually not when things go well. But here we are. Here we are.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Yeah. Yes. And we are three for the founders. And for those who haven't seen one of our 30 episodes, let me tell you a little bit about who we are and why we're here. Three for the founders. We are three gentlemen who went to UCLA together. Uh Astrafts, the number one public school in the country.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Four is up. Go bless us.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Yes. And ironically, not only do we all go to UCLA together, we all join the same fraternity, Five Beta Sigma Fraternity Incorporated. Incorporated? Yes, while at UCLA. So while we are three educated men, we are doing this for our three founders who believe that culture for service and services for humanity. And also we are three people who are questioning the founders of our country. They wrote a great document called the Constitution. And we are continually continuously asking them when will people live up to the written word? And we will question, debate, and analyze that continuously through three for the founders.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Awesome. Well done. Well said. Happy to be here with you gentlemen today. Oh, it's not your turn to talk. Let's keep going, man. It is my turn to talk. What are you doing? Yeah. Today's Martin Luther King Jr.'s celebration. Shout out to Stevie Wonder, because, you know, if he hadn't written the song that we all sing, then this probably wouldn't have been successful. However, um, there are a lot of people who are going to be quoting Martin Luther King Jr. today who really shouldn't have his name or his words in their mouth. Um, and so I heard James Tallerico, a white man who's running for a Senate in the state of Texas. Uh John sent us over this little thing and said he's working to get his orange belt. Yes. Um because he he literally said, You cannot talk about Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream and then let on one day and then legislate against it all the rest of the days of the year, which applies to a whole bunch of people, including uh LeBron's second favorite white person, uh Gavin Newsom.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yes, there he is.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Who is having some trouble, but he's done some good things, but he's done some bad things, and basically he hasn't figured out that white privilege is something that filters the way that he looks at the world. However, we'll get to that in just a few minutes.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

One of the good things he did was in con in contradiction to what Trump did, which was reversing the free access to national parks on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. That was a thing. Wow. And he reversed. And Juneteenth. Okay. And Juneteenth. One of many symbolic and practical measures that we can we can all be properly against. But uh Newsom Today opened up all state parks in California.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah, they raised some funds and they said, you know what? That's not how things go. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

And so uh so is he still number two in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, he's still number two.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

He's keep creeping up on you, buddy. We'll see how this episode goes. But right now, you're still number one.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

That's all that matters, man. That's all that matters. I just want to be able to say to other people, I can say these heinous racist things because I have a black friend named LeBron. And he thinks I'm the number one white guy. There you go. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Oh my goodness. But before we jump in, you know that we are three for the founders and we need to introduce ourselves. Um I'm gonna go ahead and jumpstart that. Reinaldo Antonio Web Torres más, yes. Uh, career educator. This is my Magic Johnson year. That means I've been doing this for 32 years. Uh and I'm also a public historian, which means I like to take what's going on in the streets, figure out what it means and how we got here, and then bring it back to you so you can say, Oh, that's what I meant. Um, and I really want to say thank you to you two gentlemen because you have pushed and challenged me in different ways to figure out what it is that we're doing and how it is that we got here and where it is we need to go. Um, so you've heard a lot about Project 2025, which is that GOP, conservative, white supremacist plan for the United States. Um, keep an ear out for Project 2096 because the three of us with some other smart people are going to fix it all. And we're already working on it.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

So is this how you recruit your friends into an effort? You don't tell them about it beforehand. There you go. You push record on several cameras and then go, by the way, here's what we're working on. Here's what we're working on.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Okay. Because if it's 2036, we'd all be gone in six hours. It's too late. Yeah, it's too late. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, all right. Go ahead, John.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

All right. Thank you for that. John Augustine, I am a communications coach and executive coach. I'm a musician, I'm a creator, I'm passionate about communication. I'm passionate about bringing people together, and that's just part of why we're here. A lot of it is informed by you gentlemen and me being with you and the brotherhood that LeBron mentioned earlier. I am obsessed with communicating clearly, but be what's beneath that is a desire to bring people together. I really believe that the fundamental difference between most people is just misunderstanding. If we can understand each other better, we could probably have a more peaceful and the kind of future that we all want. So that's a lot of what drives who I am, especially being a musician. I'm always bringing music into everything we do, and I'm a speaker as well. I speak on issues of race and diversity using music to show how the only way we're gonna get make it together in the future is by figuring out how our different notes come together and actually make harmony, even when it feels like it's discordant and dissonant. I also feel really grateful for the two of you immensely. I feel like everywhere I go, I say things that are really deep because I just quote you all most of the time. Sometimes I give you credit. But I feel very, very grateful to be among your intelligence, among the good heartedness that you guys have, to be parts of your families as well. And uh I'm just stoked to be here, man. I said stoked, that's whiteness.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Okay, gotcha. All right. I remember that word. I'm a surfer too, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Stoked has to come in there. Just I'm stoked. So great, great. That's all you have.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yes, and my name is LeBron James, the LeBron James, as the teachers call me. Uh I am a mathematician and a futurist, and I believe in examining the future, history, and current situations through numbers, because the numbers don't lie. So I use quantitative methods and qualitative justification to figure out how do we improve America for everyone. And I'm so glad to be here season two with my brothers, and like you said, I appreciate you all, appreciate you both so much because I have a lens to the world, but it is not complete. And so you two help me see the other 180 degrees so I can have a full 360-degree view of the world we live in. Let's get this party started. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Let's do it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Just have to say, he went to Harvard. He went to Harvard. He went to Brown. I stopped at UCLA.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

He says stopped at UCLA as if that's a problem.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

Right. It's not. Hey, hey. Be the dumbest person in the room. Mission accomplished. Um couple more of these. I'll really be sloppy.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

You're welcome. I drank half the bottle before we got here. So there's a lot of. Hey!

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Oh, I did. I felt like you were a little lubed up. That's nice. Well, no, not this morning.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

I put a strong drink the whole bottle. Um but I wanted to give a couple of shout outs, and these are people that have been supporting us and jumping in all of the 30 episodes, giving us responses and whatnot. Uh, the first one is my mother-in-law, Betabea Masoloti, um who not only watches us on YouTube on the giant TV screen that we have at home, but uh likes to have me sit with her so I can explain the back and forth and she can ask deeper questions. Um, she's been supporting us the entire run. And uh I want to give a shout out to uh my new cousin Esteban, um, who is sharing the podcast and he's listening to it at work. Uh shout out to him and Jimena. Uh they just got engaged. Congratulations. But uh I wanted to shout out uh Bethabe and Esteban because they've both been supporting us this entire way.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

I don't know if you all I do have to make a correction on that though. So Bethabe watches one of us and listens to three of us. Yes, this is that is a fact. She does, she does watch for that's your demographic, bro. There you go. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Gotta have a target audience, baby.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

You want to do your shout out?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yes. Stay on target. And I have a special shout out to Ghana. Oh, and thank you for the homecoming welcome. Everywhere I went in Ghana, random people on the street would say, Hey, where you from? I said, in America. They said, Oh, welcome home. So to get people to welcome you home randomly that you've never met was a great feeling. So shout out to Ghana and for people letting me know uh LeBron, you are Nigerian from the Igbo tribe. I'm like, how do you know? Because I'm looking right at you. Are you so? So when 15 people in Africa tell you, they say you don't need 23 and me. You just need someone in Africa to look at you. They'll tell you where you're from. So I'm like, it's good to know.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Like, not just country tribe, like, there you go. Uh with those cheekbones, cheapbones.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

They said you're Ebo tribe. I said, I thought I was from San Diego. But about Nigerian Ebo. Glad to be a part of the family. Shout out Sweetwater Red Devils. Is that Sweetwater Red Devils, man? That's my high school in your city, baby. You know how we do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

All right, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:19

I have this is a this is a bit of a cheat. I'm gonna shout out my kids. And it's because I like your kids. I mean, they're fine. They're you know, they're growing on me.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Kids have a way of doing that.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

You know, one more than others, you all can decide who. Um But you know, we we're dreaming of we're dreaming of a future podcast that includes all all of our children. All of our children, yes. All seven, I think. No.

unknown 12:44

Two, three, four.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Yeah, seven.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Do you not know how many you have? No, I do the math man. You all know.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

I am not the math man. We've we've discovered this. Yeah. Um but Jake, Luke, Sophia, I'm so proud of you all. I'm so grateful that these kind of conversations we have as Three for the Founders, we also get to have on occasion. And I also am begging you, please accept Antonio's invitation when he invites you to the podcast, because I'm encountering some resistance.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Hey, if they want to be on, they want to be on. If they don't want to be on, we're gonna talk about you anyway. So I don't know what the hell better be on.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Well, this is a little bit like your project 2096, where you announced it to everybody else. I'm announcing it to them to put this pressure on them now publicly. Oh, well done. That's a great father. Oh, well. You know, this is not gentle parenting, we're a part of. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Uh-huh. All right, so I got a few starter questions, but to be honest, you did this kind of homecoming. Yes. I didn't know that that's what it was a part of, right? When you said you were going. Um, I asked you if Sabah was going with you. You're like, nah, nah. So you did a thing. And I would like to at some point hear about that, right? You were also in Morocco with Sabah.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Um, and so traveling is something that we've talked about and and what that looks like. If you're comfortable with it, we can jump on that at the end. Since Eric, shout out to our uh studio engineer Eric has has already told us how much time we have. We can talk about that later. Yeah, we can talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

I mean, I'm more than happy to talk about it, but we'll put that at the end. Put it at the end. There we go. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

All right.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

All right. So uh for those of you familiar with what we do, uh season two is starting off the way season one uh worked out. And so we've got a question. And the question is chosen by one of our producers, uh, who's silently witnessing this production. Um are you a thrill seeker? And I asked that question because I've had several people in my life decide that they were gonna jump out of perfectly functioning planes. And I don't understand this. I've thought about it, and I'm not against like going in a hot air balloon that rises up ever so slowly. Ever so slowly, and then you're like, damn, if I fall, I'm gonna die. Yeah. And that to me isn't thrilling it, like it's another perspective, right? We always look for other perspectives here.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Hurling myself out of a perfectly functioning airplane seems to me to be ridiculous. And so my question, that's my question, is like, do you seek thrills? And if so, why? And if not, why not?

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Well, interestingly enough, I thought jumping out of an airplane was crazy too. But my son LeBron, the third LG, went skydiving. So LeBron 1 and 2, me and my dad sat and watched him jump out of an airplane and skydive. So he's a thrill seeker, which shows progress because my dad said, shout out to Pop James being a black man in America is thrill seeking every day.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Exactly. So that's not a hole.

SPEAKER_04 16:05

The thrill seeks you out like a heat-seeking missile. Here's a thrill. Oh, black man.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

We're at the Kingdom Day Parade today. Yes. And there are several. The LAPD has a whole bunch of motorcycle cops with the lights flashing. And I'm walking down the street going, they're just in the parade. They're just in the parade, they're just in the parade. California sheriffs are walking up. People of color, black folk, white folk, all in the uniform. We got Sean Wills, our fraternity brother, who just retired. No, he's not a sheriff, he's a CHP. CHP. CHP patrols. Right? But they had one too. And I'm looking at all of those to Papa James's point. Yes. And every time they walk by, I had to go, they're just in the parade. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he LG is seeking some thrills. My son has also thrown himself out of a perfectly functioning brain.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

So has Luke, so has my boy. So we are progressive parents. We have had our kids elevate to a level that we could never even imagine. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

I guess. Bungee jumping?

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Would you ever tie myself to a rubber band or hurl myself off a bridge?

SPEAKER_04 17:16

When you re-ask the question like that, what's beneath that is, hey, dumb shit. Were you paying attention to the point that I just made?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

I don't like roller coasters. I don't never like roller coasters.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

I can't either.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I don't need to pay somebody or have somebody build a machine that's going to scare me for my life.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

But you like scary movies. No, not really. So there are some scary movies that make it into your continuum. Sure. Yeah, but you're not like seeking out the blackening.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That was a scary movie that I enjoyed. You haven't seen that one?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

I haven't seen that one. Okay, so the blackening, you haven't seen that one. I was like, the blackening, I've lived that every day, but I still haven't seen the movie. Actively black. And there you go.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

But but to that point, right? It took me a long time to see Get Out.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Right?

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

And then when I was watching it and I watched it by myself, I'm sitting on the couch, and the brother is in the white neighborhood at night on the phone talking about I can't find this. And they said, mm-mm-mm-mm-m Jordan Peale, you knew that was just a reality TV show. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 18:24

This strikes a really good like physiological point about adrenaline. Like the thrill that you're talking about is the adrenal gland.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Fear that I'm talking about, because other people consider it a thrill.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

And I'm But the fear is part of the fear is what engages the adrenaline, which is a chemical that goes through the system that makes you like, you know, fight or flight and activate that. And what I'm hearing you all say is like my adrenal gland gets plenty of working out. There you go. I don't need to work out that gland any more than I need to. Fuck that. I'm naturally I'm not a thrill seeker. I I remember my first roller coaster was at 12 years old. And you it's not even a the matter horn at Disneyland. Oh, okay. I had to talk myself into that stuff. What? I hate that thing. Well, it's rickety as hell. And then you got the abominable snowman. Oh yeah, that part is scary. But no, I never I I don't see I'm an I'm an attention seeker. And if I have to do a thrilling thing to get attention, if you put a little social pressure on me, I'll do it. I'll jump into a cold thing, I'll do like, you know, I'll but no, I don't seek it out. I don't seek it out.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Okay. Wow. But see, that's interesting because I wonder, because we're activated, our adrenal gland is activated all the time. So when I see white people, they're typically doing thrill-seeking stuff as though their glands are never activated. Yes, yes. So they're like, we need it to be activated on some human level.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

To feel alive.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Yeah. That was my my brain went there first. I was like, isn't that a question? I mean, white people do this kind of stuff all the time. Like, I mean, that that's a that's a consistent theme among like black comedians, is like white people camping, white people jumping out of planes, white people doing this weird, crazy shit, paying someone else to feel scared.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

And maybe it is to feel alive. Like, I need this to feel alive. Or and it's yeah, yeah. It it often divides among racial lines, it seems.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

I just think white people should just let us be their master, they'd be our slaves for 400 years, and they can get all the excitement and thrill up close and personal. Okay. I mean, we won't even charge you. Cheaper than a plane, cracker. Cheaper than the shot. Excited now?

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Does that mean I get to start calling you cracker once this happens? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Now that would excite my adrenaline.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Sign me up.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Not to not.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

Have we been canceled yet? Grand closing. Well, that's a that's a good question. I I have a question. Is that good? We good? Um you brought up an early episode, Antonio, about you had this theory, or not a theory, but you were proposing like maybe we should join the social media networks of the other side just to sort of do a little like how are they operating?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

We're talking about like we listened to episode two?

SPEAKER_04 21:14

It's episode two season one, episode two. You brought up like mail on YouTube. You know, a little espionage, a little understanding of what's going on in the other conversation we're not privy to. I think all three of us are like, oh God, I don't know if I could handle that. Like, and I I know for me, if I jumped in, I think I'd get nauseous pretty quick and just you know. But I realized that Facebook already does that for me. Because can is your feed full of bullshit too? It's full of a lot. And what I and this was where the question I obviously you got you got some feelings about this, so I can't wait to tease it out. Because well, t say that first. No, no, no, no, no. So you know, at some point I joined Facebook, I remember the year, 2013. The reason why I remember that is I had I had held back, I was holding back, and then I was I was Was promoting an album I was releasing, like I better get on Facebook. There you go. No, the next one, uh, somewhere in between.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Somewhere in between EP available on Apple Music and all platforms.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Please, if everyone who listens to this at all 29 countries, 25. 25 countries in Germany. Welcome Germany. Alemania. Yes, yeah. Bienvenidos. Um if you all listened to this a thousand times, that album a thousand times for the next year, thank you for the 37 cents that Spotify is thinking of. Anyway, I joined in 2013. And so with that, you know, and my my life has evolved and changed since then. My social circles have changed a little bit, but still, you know, those circles they they they intersect at some point. So my my feed is gonna be filled with folks from over a decade, people who have different social points of view. Sure. And, you know, I've got a lot of, especially from a certain era of my life, a lot of very conservative thinking people when I lived up north in a very, very conservative area. So I'm just I recognize that my feed is gonna have that stuff and I kind of like it. It's like a little flavor, like, all right, what are they saying? But I'm realizing that, you know, it's it's tough because yeah, there's been a lot of bullshit lately. And there's a particular post that I'll share the details on as we talk, but it it made me ask this question like, is it worth it when someone says something audacious, something that's so clearly wrong from our point of view, and they are somehow connected to our social network? You know, they're not just a stranger, they they we knew them at some point. Is it a good idea to even get involved in that conversation? Is that is that a waste of our time? Should we even bother? What do you all think?

SPEAKER_01 23:39

If it's somebody that I have uh any type of direct relationship with, I will engage.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Direct meaning direct meaning probably the last few years, you I know them and they know me.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Right. And so um hi, Jime. Uh I have people in my life who have people in their life who make a comment and they respond, and so that'll pop up. I'm not jumping in if you're once removed. Gotcha. Right? That's a good function. That's a good function. That's that's that's my take on it.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Um and depending on how closely you are involved in what I do on a regular basis, right? Because some of the people, some people are in your life for a season and for a reason, and then they're gone.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

And they're friends on Facebook. Then they're friends on Facebook. And that's what I'm talking about. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

And so uh I got into a conversation with uh an Irish Catholic Republican friend of mine. Wow. Who lived you who used to live across the street. I grew up with this guy, right? And so we were talking about affirmative action, and he was saying it's unnecessary, and I was saying, that's because you're white and you're Catholic, and you could just go to any number of Jesuit universities, yada yada yada. Right. I'm gonna have that conversation. Yeah, right. Um, much as you've had some conversations about Charlie Kirk. I'm not going to jump in when somebody's a flamethrower, because A, I don't know if it's a real person or it could be a bot. And B, that's not that's not my energy.

SPEAKER_04 25:30

I don't but two things about that. Number one, I love the formula of if they're once removed, don't even bother because it's not. But second, the question is, is that even a conversation at this point? Is it really a conversation?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

If it's the person, so I don't knowingly have anybody who wants to make America great again, even though I know lots of people who are Republicans. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Right?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I don't know anybody honestly that I think would have voted for the terrorism of this regime because they thought that their 401k was gonna go up or they were gonna somehow benefit from this. Um and so, and I when I say knowingly, that's not my professional life. Because I know where I work.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

There you go. Yeah, right? Yeah. And that's to me, that's interesting. I appreciate that question because I have a lot of people, friends and associates on my Facebook who in the last four years have now become outwardly openly MAGA. And like from people I went to school with who were poor people of color who are strong supporters of everything Trump does. And so I started to unfriend them, but I said, you know what? Let me just continue to see, even though it makes me cringe, I need to know how are you thinking this lady? Like, what happened in your life? One dude joined the police force, so I know how he got indoctrinated. But some of the other Latino friends I grew up with, like we grew up poor together, and now you're talking anti-the way we grew up. Yeah, and then we have even fraternity brothers, and I'm like, you're in a black fraternity and you are MAGA, almost openly MAGA. So I'm just curious what happened to you to where you start hating yourself. Like, what makes you start hating yourself, hating your mom, hating your dad, hating your grandparents? What makes you get to that point fascinates me because something happens, and I don't debate them because you can't debate beliefs. Well, somebody believes something, the this the conversation is over.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

I know, but beliefs change. They've like the this conversation has changed my beliefs. And that's that's the rub for me is that there's there's a point at which there's different reasons why I would engage. Like the the lowest, the lowest version of myself is just that limbic system primal reaction to you're a fucking idiot. And I want to, I just want to react. Like there's that. Yeah. And then there's the like there's a public debate, and I want to check you. That's the other one. Like I wanna I want you to know that when you say something this audacious, someone's gonna come and at least check you. I want you to feel that that jab. You know? There you go. And then the highest level is I legitimately think if I approach this person correctly, I might be able to change their mind. And that's where I feel like a fool sometimes. But I I somehow can't shake that. The naivete. The naivete. Because like, and this this might get into our conversation. Before we got here, um, I was I was on time.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Um we weren't. Stay on brand.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

You got something you want to say, bro? See episode 18.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Um, but see now he was on time, my ass. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

They went and saw their child at a parade. Thank you. And it was hard to get out of that. I'm not going to talk about the gentleman I'm sharing with the couch right now, whatever happened.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

I'll be there in 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Despite all the warnings and hashtag is about military time. Yeah. All this kind of stuff. My entire point being I went, I just went super. I'm like, let me get to downtown way early, I'll get I'll get some food. And I was thinking about this question, and then, of course, on Facebook, this someone who was a little bit more in my circle years ago but isn't anymore. I could maybe consider him once removed from a time perspective, was talking about Jesus and saying, Would would Jesus have ever screamed in protest? Did you ever see Jesus yelling at the authorities and all the comments going, Yeah, man, what's good. And I'm like, I can't, I couldn't help myself. Like I went to the first, you know, number one reaction, and then number two was like, All right, let me just check him. I'm just gonna check him. Yes. And I tried to put the calm filter on, and I and I just said, you know, I I respect he said something like I'm struggling with this thought. I said, if you're truly struggling with this, I respect that. Here's here's my here's my argument is Jesus, by definition, his entire life was a protest. By the way, he was murdered by the state because he was such a threat to the authorities. There you go. So the your religion, I and I didn't say your, but this religion started with a protest that ended in the murder of its founder.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

And if you want to look at scripture, there are so many where he's challenging authority, hitting like then calling out their hypocrisy. So you may not like the way people are protesting, but you can't pretend that Christianity was not a protest and its founder was not someone. And I said, Oh, and you can go. There was one episode in Scripture. I don't mean this to be the scripture hour with Brother John, but there was one where Jesus, this is where I need black church to come to bring it up. You don't go there anymore, but I want some of the side. But uh but I'm like there if he he overturned the tables and yelled and made a whip and drove out people at one point. Thank you. So yes, he did yell at one point. So uh now that I pushed sand on that and then I came over here. I have no idea the results of this, but I feel no matter what happens at this point, I felt like that was a little check. Like even if it goes horribly wrong, I don't change his mind. There's something in me that wants to every now and then just drop in and drop a little bomb and go, you're not gonna fully get away with your little echo chamber here. I'm gonna invade every now and then.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

There you go. I don't know. Now, John, I'm the least authoritative person when it comes to the Bible. I think I read like the first page and maybe the last page. We can still be friends. Thank you. So I don't know. People debate, is Jesus white, is Jesus black, is he Middle Eastern? I don't know. I just go by his actions. If he turned water into wine and he flipped it over tables, he's black to me. I mean, y'all can take it from there, but I'm evidence-based, so okay, to you at home. Because I've seen Jesus at my house for sure.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

While you witness the wonder that is LeBron James, please know that what Antonio and I experienced during that entire setup, we're like, he's gonna land this plane. He's gonna land this plane, he's setting something up, he's making a deep point, and then pop, he's gonna be. He's gonna land this fully functional plane with everybody in it.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yes, there we go.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

Woo! But no, thank you for entertaining that that question to me because it comes down to I've I've been thinking about the difference, and this is something that our our first season really brought out to me was the difference between the system of racism and the and the the personal experience of racism. So systems in place where the power is, and then individual people where the thoughts are. And individual people get taken advantage of by these systems that have the power, and we're seeing that with MAGA now, especially folks who don't even know, like you say many times, that that racism actually hurts white people more. And that's something we can always talk about more and more. But like when I think about the personal side of racism and the role that we play, even in a podcast, I think one of the reasons why podcasts have become so popular is that people are craving long-form discussion because we're not experiencing this on a day-to-day basis. We're experiencing someone posts something, everyone agrees and agrees, agrees, and then someone drops a grenade in it or an argument, and then it's not really a it's not a conversation, but this is a conversation. And I do think that conversations result in changed minds. I really do. I think I'm gonna hold on to that until I die. But you all accuse me of being too naive along these lines sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Not naive in the conversation about too optimistic people listening. You can't let what you want to be blind you to what is.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I like that. Say that one more time for the people sitting in the back, Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

You can't let what you want to be blind you to what is. I'm a terrible fiction writer because I can't ever let go of what I want to be and let characters be what it what they are. I don't know how to write evil people. I know how to witness them. I know how to call them out.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

You know how to call them out, you can articulate why they're evil, all those things. All those things. I've witnessed all of this with you, yes.

unknown 34:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Um but our conversation today to answer the producer's question, do we have a topic? was about one year into the Trump regime. Right? Um which is not really one year in, but Project 2025 wasn't an accident. Um and uh black people living rent-free in Donald Trump's head is obvious. He decided to run for president when he got embarrassed by Barack Obama at the White House Correspondence Dinner with the long-form birth certificate. Still working out. That's where the birtherism started, right? Still still working out his daddy's. But that that's where the that's where the the birtherism concluded. And he came down the stairs and said, Mexicans are rapists and they're sending us they're not best people. Um and he's run on that platform as a few. He's run on that platform, right? So that's 2016, so we are in 2026. We are 10 years in after the Trump regime. And what they have gotten better at, and that's not a pronoun slip, I'm saying Donald Trump and other people, uh, since he's got an issue with pronouns, is finding those spaces where people are weak and prodding them. Right? Um and so where are we as we turn in this? Is it important to be on those social networks? Is it important to be dropping those bombs? Or should we be doing other things? Right? Gavin Newsom goes back and forth and and he's actually not the one running his social media campaign, which is trolling the Trump regime, right? That's a queer Latina, uh her name's Camila something, and I don't know her last name. Um 29-year-old who understands how these machinations work and is using them to her fullest effect. But where are we? Right, was the question that we were gonna answer. And what does that say about us and how do we go forward?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Man, that's a that's a great question. I'll say one part that I want you to chime in, John, so we have some things to say. Maybe is that when you see the Trump regime, it started off old school racist. Let's get rid of diversity, let's fire all the black people, they're not qualified. Then he attacked immigration. Oh, we got to get rid of the immigrants. So he was dividing as he was going along. But now, when Renee, was Renee Good, when she when they shot a white woman in the face on national television and white people called her the enemy, that's when I was like, okay, this is just straight up a grab. This is beyond racism. This is this is capitalism. Oh. It's we're snatching all the resources, all the money to share between 15 rich old white guys, and we don't care if we kill people of color, immigrants, or our own white women, we're coming to get this money. So that's when to me the whole thing changed. And now it should be a wake-up call for everyone to figure out what do we have in common? What do we all need to be happy and pursue justice and happiness? And who is everyone's common enemy? Because my enemy's enemy is my friend. And that's something I think we need to consider.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Could you draw help me understand the connection to like the Renee Good conclusion and capitalism? Like I'm I'm filling in the licks in my own head, but I want to know what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Right. So the thing is, if I'm trying to capture all the money, all the resources, racism is we want all the resources for whites and exclude people of color. When they shot Renee good, then like, no, it's just us billionaires who want to take all the money. So they remove the mask of it being white versus everyone else. Because that's how they have their power. They hide behind the whiteness, but now once you kill white, white's not even an issue. It's the money that's the issue. Because now I have to control everything, and control is where the power comes from. That's why we're going to Venezuela. Not because of a of a dictator who's sh, you know, peddling in drugs. It's because you have oil. We're lacking oil. We need more oil. Why do you think we want Greenland? Come on now. Some pretty Minnesota ain't cold enough? There's some pretty the capital of the resistance? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

I was just sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

So that's what I mean by John, is that when you peel it back, there's capitalism as the core.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Capitalism is covered by racism.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Yeah. But racism has been the device used to divide, which allows you to be in power, essentially, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Lyndon Johnson said, give the poorest white man somebody to look down on. Yes. And you have convinced him that he is good.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

Funny you mentioned that because that's a terrible butchering of the quote. No, no, but that was the point. Yes, that was the point. I started thinking about this talk that we're having by looking at all the executive orders for just for this term. I wanted to see how it compared just numerically. Like, you know, and uh I have the numbers written down, I'm not going to bore you with them. The bottom line, in one year, Trump has in just 2025, he has almost equaled Obama's executive orders in eight years. Wow. Okay. So just uh in overturning things. And the and the LBJ quote is what stirred this in me was that he one of the significant ones, January 21st, January 20th, when he took office, was like a gang of executive orders, mostly about attacking DEI and transgender issues. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

You mean he came back into office ready to explode?

SPEAKER_04 40:55

As if he'd been planning all along, or let's say, as if those beneath beneath the pimple had been planning all along. You know, now that they have the pimple with the pen in his hand. That's their guy right there. I like that. But one of them was he overturned on January 21st, he overturned an LBJ civil rights executive order, which redefined, which allowed for basically equal opportunity in schools and federally funded institutions. And so when I hear you talking, and this connects to the question too, what what they did fundamentally in that moment was they redefined anything equal opportunity as racial discrimination. That's what Calton talks about in the executive board.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Because white folks have it hard in this country. That's right. If you haven't seen Hillbilly Elogy, I highly recommend you don't.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

That's his first non-recommendation. There you go. I love it. Whatever he said about sinners, the opposite. Yes. For for this.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Oh my God, how good is that movie? Sorry. Yeah. I'll take this way too.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

No, no, that's all right. So even what you're saying, LeBron, it just brings me back to I'm I'm starting to see now it's you know the racism is and it it exists, but yet you're taking it deeper, going, it exists in order to just make the few, the fewer richer. And it's whether it's just to keep in power, and that's the House of Cards thing that Francis Underwood's, you know, that character that is still a good character in a great series. He's getting out his phone, where he says something about, you know, the it's something about the fool chases money, yes. The wise chase power. Yes. And that's a that's a paraphrase. But that power is really it, the money, the capitalism, yes. Racism is the tool for racism being the divide, however. And what what I'm very, very, very disturbed by is I don't know if we'll get this genie back in the bottle, meaning having redefined what DEI is, how they took a term that was pretty innocuous and almost neutral. DEI was just a diversity, equity, inclusion. It just meant efforts, it meant companies, you know, trying to give voice and opportunity to people who traditionally didn't have it, and turned it into this bad word. Then now folks, you know, have turned it into a pejorative. And in redefining equal opportunity as racial discrimination and a lot of folks buying into that whole wholesale, that's that's frightening as hell to me. And and the end of that is to the point where now you got people going, well, Renee Good got what she deserved because she shouldn't have been out there doing those things anyway, because law. You're like, wait, what? What is driving? So I started today.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Do you have some feelings about the market today? Frustrating.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

I like when he uses his outside voice. Trying to get your outside voice.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Because my printer wouldn't print my uh looking at my phone, and my phone is not important.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Poor Antonio, another one.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

But here's what I'm saying to you. The United States has never, never given a shit about the global majority.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

From its inception, it has been a country concerned with well fed, well read, well bred, and well wed white men. And f everyone else. There is much to paper over as black and brown non-Christians fell for the okie doke who believed in we the people who understood that all men are created equal, included them. They believed pretty words on paper. But at every fing opportunity. White men have taken the opportunity to fleece and connive for their own benefit. To the death, destruction, maiming, and dissolution of white women, poor white men, and the rest of us. It is without a doubt chickens coming home to roost. Malcolm was not wrong when he talked about war coming home to kill Kennedy and us sitting here looking at the grab of land, of money, right? So so so so his big deal is he wants a Nobel Peace Prize because Obama got one.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Oh see above regarding the correspondence.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

He wants a Nobel Peace Prize and he was given one, but he's not the Nobel laureate because that cannot be transferred. Right. Right. And so in putting together the peace plan to stop a genocide, he has put out a charter that names him in perpetuity, not the president of the United States, but Donald J. Trump, the chief of all of it, the one who picks who gets to be on it. And the way that people, and by people I mean states, I mean nations, get to be a participant is to pay a billion dollars. A billion?

SPEAKER_04 45:59

In the process of receiving in order to be part of the piece, whatever the thing he created.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Whatever the thing is he created. Okay. This motherfucker right here is Andrew Jackson on steroids. This motherfucker right here is the one who has failed upwards.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

So China and Russia and India and all these other countries that he is not strong enough to take over are going to join together.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

How did you stop the school bully? You got together and punched him in the nose. There you go. And until he got punched in the nose, he was running the roost. Welcome to America in 2026. Wow. Did you write that? Some of it.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

I loved it either way. No, John, not to put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_04 47:09

Oh, put me on the spot, bro.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Fill my dream. As our resident white male. Yes. Why are white men so angry? You have everything. You've stolen everything. You control the media, the narrative. You have all the weapons. You have all the money. Why are you still angry?

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Who do you put money on in a boxing match? The brother. I don't know if that's a good question to ask you because I don't think the answer serves my question. I was gonna say, like the one who's got everything to lose, but it's actually usually the one who's got nothing to lose. Yes. So that's the hustle. So just strike that. Okay. I was trying to be like you. I was trying to like have a you just let me up. I'm more of a long form than a like boom, I don't have bars, I have paragraphs. Um people are more motivated, and this is this is marketing does this, sales people do that. They are more prone to act in fear of losing something than the promise of gaining something.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

That's some white shit. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

That's not an easy thing. Why does every car commercial go, hey, but if we're limited time only, you better get this before the 20%. And we keep falling for it because human nature is I don't want to lose what I have. I don't want to miss an opportunity. I don't want to and that's you just you listed everything white people have, and they're afraid that it's being taken away from them. And that's where the anger comes from. I mean, that's uh it's funny because I this is actually part of my notes. I feel like we're staying on target a little bit. Oh, right. Because I wrote down another Facebook post of someone who's somehow in my concentric circles, and she posted a picture of a brown woman being surrounded by ICE agents who grabbed her, and she's got a panic look on her face appropriately. And I don't I don't I don't recognize this woman's name who posted it. So I'm like, I don't know what side she's on until I read her comment. And she's like, Finally, the law is being enforced. Oh, damn. Take a breath. I know this is triggering. I know that I know that you all want to see. I should have done trigger warning before this. So after I took a few breaths, I wrote down what is she celebrating?

unknown 49:39

Right?

SPEAKER_04 49:39

Like, what why in this moment does that white woman, and she's a white woman, see that image that makes us sick, that makes us angry, that makes us want to punch somebody. What is why does that make her feel strong? And it's because she's convinced by Trump and by the media campaign that she is under threat. She is under physical threat from immigrants, that she is under economic threat from the from immigrants who are taking our jobs, ruining our economy. And so that that the visceral reaction she has to that image is one of positivity. Like, oh, finally someone's gonna, someone's taking care of the problem for me. And I was thinking, like, would this woman ever go to a brown person in her neighborhood, grab them by the shoulders and like put and zip tie them? Of course not. She wouldn't, she's probably if you met her, she'd be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

But she would go order tacos and get some Mexican big. Yes, she would. She would.

SPEAKER_04 50:31

But she's also happy that someone else is dealing with this threat that she sees of someone who speaks differently and maybe is taking, cooks food that smells different and speaks a different language, because oh well, this doesn't feel like the America that I've been told to love. See episode whatever about mythology. White people really believe the myths, man. We're emotionally attached to us being at the center. White narcissism.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Thank you. Aaron Storkin wrote a script narcissism. And Rob Reiner, shout outs. Oh, rest of the case. Rob Reiner directed a movie called The American President. And in it, Michael Keaton plays the President of the United States, and he's running against Rob Brunson, who's played by Richard Dreyfus. And uh in the speech, he says that he's only worried about two things what's wrong with your life, and who can you blame for it.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Yes, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Wow, and who can you blame for it?

SPEAKER_04 51:27

So in this case, this this white woman, like every any w any person, feels there are things that are wrong with my life. And if I've been convinced that what's wrong with my life, is that my American mythology is at threat. You know, my my apple pie, my hot dogs, my red, white, and blue, my country music, my eagle flying, my jets, and my white neighborhood is under threat. And so I can blame them for it. And I I'm never, you know what? Let's call her Maria. Maria, who lives in my neighborhood, I don't really like the food that you cook. I don't like the way you talk. I don't like the fact that on holidays I don't have parking spaces in front of my house because all your cousins come over. But I'm never gonna tell you about that. I'm just gonna be really nice to you. But inside, I really wish I didn't have to deal with this. I would rather this look the way that I think Norman Rockwell would paint this. Norman Rockwell actually was a pretty progressive painter.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

I shouldn't use his and I threw Charles Schultz under the bus, not knowing that he didn't put Franklin on the side of the table by himself.

SPEAKER_04 52:29

That wasn't his call, someone else did that? That was CBS's call.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

No, Massa did that.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Massa did that.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Not Schultz. It was Massa who did that, not Charles Schultz. Rockwell painted his experience, and I'm not upset with him about it at all. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Did I answer your question? Yeah, you you answered it, but when I look at the global majority, we have much less. Yet we're happier. We don't say white people stole our country, stole our land, stored our language, stole our, we know that, but we don't go out and just start killing random white people because we're civilized. So I'm like, if you have everything, to me, the fear is because I've done everyone so wrong over the last five 500 years, that if I slightly give an opportunity for equality, they're gonna do to us what we did to them. And that fear to me is what motivates and keeps white people putting their foot firmer on everyone else's neck. Because it's like the abusive relationship. If a man is cheating on his wife, then he don't want her to go nowhere. Yeah. Because he's afraid if she goes out, she's gonna do what he does. So he's doing bad and then punishes the woman because in his mind he's thinking she's she's as bad as I am.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

It's that same thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

But I don't think the average white person even sub subconsciously thinks they have been that perpetrator. I really don't. Like, you know, like the the chickens coming home to root, like that's that's the bad guys from the past. I think this woman who posted whatever on Facebook sees herself as not part of the problem ever. So I don't know if she would be afraid of someone coming and doing to her what she and her people did to others. I think it's just more of a fear of losing what she thinks is her safe little white world.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

You mean she was she's uneducated? I don't know. Season one, episode one, we titled or I titled Yes. Y'all shouldn't let me title. The miseducation. The miseducation of the Anglo. Of the Anglo, yes. It's not an accident that Donald J. Trump began one of the many January 2020 or January 2021, 2025 executive orders, was restoring truth and sanity to American history. Truth and sanity was and he started out right trying to erase black folk from the history of the United States. We might say that he tried to erase black history. But now he's trying to erase white history. Meaning the guilt of the meaning he pardoned all of the insurrectionists on his first day in office. And then on the anniversary of the insurrection, the White House created a website that said, Oh, the police started it. They sure did. He's blaming law enforcement, and he's saying that they were just peaceful protesters. And yet peaceful protesters are a problem when they're protesting ICE.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

This has me thinking, I want you to finish that thought about the simple versus complex conversations we have ongoing.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Hamilton said. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Which one?

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Alexander Hamilton. That one, okay. The first duty of any society is justice. It's not just us, it's justice. And so they're running away with all the toys. It doesn't matter who they kill. Whiteness has been a cover, racism has been a cover, sexism has been a cover. Renee Good is not the first white woman to die in the cause of equality.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Because that means that Heather Heyer in Charlottesville didn't get hit by that car. The difference is we're watching the government fall. We're watching those representatives fall. Right. All of these people are serving what they believe to be white supremacy. And that is going to be the downfall of the United States. Like something is going to limp out of here. What it is and what it looks like, we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

But why would it be the fall? Why would white supremacy be the fall of the United States if it was founded on white supremacy? I mean, it's a foundation of quicksand.

SPEAKER_04 57:31

It's a flawed, yeah, it's a flawed philosophy to begin with. So if I'm hearing you correctly, I'm understanding you all correctly, Trump shows up basically because of his daddy issues, and a black man named Barack Obama at a White House correspondence dinner called him out publicly and embarrassed him. And he that was the tipping point for Trump. Like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna work out my daddy issues on the American dime.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Yeah, because that wasn't the first time that he had talked about running for president. He talked about running for president in 1992, 93. Yes. And he said, Oh, if I was gonna run for president, I'd run as a Republican because they're easier to control.

SPEAKER_04 58:13

And he shows up saying, look, I I don't really care about the good of mankind. I don't really care about the Constitution. I don't care about anything other than myself and making myself rich. The way you do that is by bringing other people into your circle who have similar desires and goals. And then there's this system beneath Project 2025 that said, Oh, funny, funny you should arrive at this moment. Because we have some plans that involve white supremacy, that involve making Christianity the national religion, English, you know, all the different things that 2025 does. And so I feel like Trump sits on top of that with his own agenda that's really more long-lasting and compelling, which is power and wealth. That's all he cares about.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Oh, that really are simple. Yes. Donald J. Trump cares about Donald J. Trump. That's what I'm saying. He doesn't care about power. He doesn't care about wealth.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

He cares about him. But that's the same. I mean He wants to be in control.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

He wants to have all the toys. Yes, power.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna say power with the toys.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

I guess. I don't think I don't think it is. What is it then? His name on everybody's lips. Yeah. I don't think he's accomplished that. I don't think he did accomplish that. Here we are.

SPEAKER_04 59:31

Yes, there you go. You know, yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

I'm just saying, like I right, that's why the apprentice worked.

SPEAKER_04 59:38

That's why I say he's working out his daddy issues. He wants everybody talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Yeah, but I don't I guess it's the it's the what is the goal? I don't I don't think his goal is power. I think his goal is attention.

SPEAKER_04 59:49

Fame. Fame, attention, sure. There we go. And that's what when even answering your question, I am coming back to the people are simple, and and my formula for that is one I've shared before is people are simple, their experiences are complicated. But you can always come down to what are they reacting to at a visceral level when they're so mad? Sure. Needs and fears. Sure. You know, I've talked about this. Okay. What am I afraid of? What do I need to feel less afraid? And and every time I come and I'm trying to understand someone's reaction to something, I'm like, what are they afraid of in this moment?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

And then it helps me. And then what do they need? That's when the conversation gets weird. Well, I need a giant wall. Well, I need ice agents to come and grab all the brown people because that makes me feel less afraid. I think it all that's the simplicity of all this stuff when I keep coming back to.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

But then why is Candace Owens or Stephen A. Smith, Kuhn, Tom, dance or something? They need attention. They're afraid of irrelevance.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:47

They're afraid of losing their money. They're afraid of, especially if you're a celebrity. I mean, what what have I done this week to stay in the in the spotlight? That that that gets more and more I guess shrunk, like the because the the news cycle is so short. And I just think being audacious and saying audacious things and getting that attention. Look, as the as the only white dude in a black fraternity, I can tell you it's very intoxicating only, but one of the only in in this room, uh it's intoxicating to get that intention to be to be the exception to the rule. Sure. It is. And I think if with a Candace Owens or Stephen A. Smith or who or or Larry Elder, whomever you put in that box, if you if you add not only intoxication, but a shit ton of money to that, it's addictive. And now your entire life is predicated on your ability to stay on people's lips. And so I think just the your brand is now audacity. I'm just gonna be audacious. I'm gonna be the different one.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

And so now speaking to that that point again, this is why I say that I think people are complex, and though Antonio thinks they're simple. They may be simple-minded, but the human experience is complex.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

I love that we can always come back to this if we need to.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Because how can someone say they're a Christian and quote the Bible and then support ICE, support Trump, support murder, support these things because they're holding two different things at the same time. How can a Catholic priest rape little kids and then no one says I'm gonna stop being Catholic? They've spent a billion dollars in legal fees for raping little kids, but no one denounces the religion because people are complex. Like I can pray for you and abuse you at the same time. That's the complexity of human beings. So that's what I mean by complex. Now, how they may act, you may say it's simple and easily identified, but that's where I struggle. Like you ask those questions, I say, oh, these people are complex. How can you be part of a black fraternity and be MAGA? That's complex to me. Like, how can you believe and hold both of those at the same time? So that's where I struggle. So you you have your two questions. I fall back on complexity. People are complex. Antonio, how do you deal with them the craziness? They're simple.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:10

Well, and you say that's what's this is what helps you sleep at night, too. You say because sometimes you can't come up with the answers like fuck it, they're complex.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Yes, there you go, go to sleep. People are simple. The complexity comes when they lie to themselves about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:25

Touche.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Right? Bro, I don't have any more liquor in here, but uh beer is a bit more. I think we have a proud of myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I didn't drink the whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:37

Um You've got a bar there, man. Say that again, Antonio. Antonio's got the bars today.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

I know. People are simple. The complexity comes when they lie to themselves. Because what they say that they're doing is being free of the democratic plantation. What they say that they're doing is they're thinking beyond their race. What they say that they're doing is worrying about themselves and not being part of the larger problem. Not understanding that the larger problem occurs because people are simple and they're all doing what feels good for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

Yeah. Man. It's not. John, we just gotta we just got some free therapy, do we? I don't feel better.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

I do. Do you ever feel better after therapy?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Therapy usually takes us up. No minute. Look at it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

That's your drug dealer. They just give you enough to get you through the next one. There you go. That's the idea. Thanks for that hit. Appreciate it. Then I'll be like, here, here's six months supply. No, I want to see you next week. Yeah. No, that resonates though. It's complex when you start lying to yourself because ultimately, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

I mean because the lies mean that you haven't acknowledged what you actually want out of it. The lies mean that you have you know what you should, and yet what you want is something different.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yep. And what you want is based on we went to Taco Bell yesterday. Oh, it's confession. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:20

I didn't know this confession hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Because we've seen because we've seen a thousand Taco Bell commercials. Yes. Uh-huh. The chicken fried taco is actually okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

But my point being is that if you're told something out loud over enough, you're special because you're white. Black people don't have a history. Lapinos are taking over the country because they are illegal immigrants in a land that they lived in before. Hello. Indigenous people don't exist anymore. If you're talking. Hold things over and over and over again, you start to believe them even though you know they're not true.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

Thank you. Now, on that point right there, because that's dope, as we wrap this up, I want each of you to share what's one thing you want to say to our listeners to start this year off that they should say every day or believe every day to change their reality. Just like we buy those lies. What's the truth that we can share with our listeners that they should hold on to for 2026?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Read books by black authors. 1619 Project, The Warmth of Other Suns, All the Tanahasse Coats You Can Ingest. James Baldwin, who am I missing? I mean Audrey Lord. Audrey Lord. The quote that I had today. Oh, the Instagram handle is Ashley the Baroness. I think votes real. I think we're tagging her on the book. Yes, we're tagging Ashley the Baroness. Yes. But she quoted the book because she was the one who opened up the term white narcissism instead of white supremacy. Yes. And she was quoting Lewis R. Gordon's book, Fear of Black Consciousness. Fear of Black Consciousness. By the way, Skyful of Elephants is a book about black consciousness by SIBO Ross.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

You got to read that book, people.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

So seriously, if if you are at all like motivated, if you feel any sense of, uh, what is that? Read books by black authors. That's my encouragement. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Bam.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Yeah. So I'll say the advice I would give to people don't focus on white racism. Focus on your family and your community. Put all your energy and all your efforts into building your family and building your community and don't worry about the rest. Preach. Say more. Immigrants are fighting white supremacy. Black people are fighting white supremacy. And now white women are fighting white supremacy. If everyone said, How can I how can black people work with the Latino community? How can white women partner with people of color? And what can we do together collectively? If you're going to spend the energy, spend it building, not defending. Because that's how white supremacy works. They keep us all playing defense when all we have to do is play offense together. To me, that's the secret.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Spend it building.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Spend it building.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

Dig it. I would challenge you to use those two words. Say more. Don't accept the first thing someone tells you. Find out why they're telling you. Because accepting the first version of the story leaves you with a single perspective, a single story that serves someone's interests, but not necessarily yours. Man.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:19

When are we starting this episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:26

What are we talking about today? Welcome back. Yes. Season two. One of my favorites. Episode one.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

And we're on brand.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:35

One of my favorite from the sandbox sessions, if I'm allowed to quote myself, we finally get on. We're like, um, so we know we know what we're doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

I mean, left on founders.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

We out. We out. Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at three for the founders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok, or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left On Founders. We out.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:21

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk. I can say I I have to confess I feel a little uncomfortable as a white dude going, we out. Why? I feel like I should say we're out. No, we out. I know that's what it is. But I just I I have to clap on one and three if this one's not happening. At least one thing. I thought you were out. We are out. But see how that sounds though? It's so much better. Just look at it. We are out. Too many words. No, we out is better for sure. It's just like being a real one is better than he is a real one.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

Yeah, he is authentic. It just doesn't hit the zero.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

He's a stand up guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

He's a stand up guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

So here's what you can do.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Please tell me.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

We be out. No matter. I'm not doing that.