Monuments and Monsters (Extended) - Ep. 44

"Art Versus Artist, Power Structures, and Huerta’s Revelation”

Okay. Stay with me here. Because this one requires you to hold two truths at the same time — and if you’re not used to doing that, today’s episode is going to be uncomfortable. Good.

Here’s what we know: Dolores Huerta — farmworker organizer, civil rights icon, the woman who stood next to César Chávez for decades and helped build one of the most consequential labor movements in American history — waited sixty years to tell us something she knew. Sixty years. And before you judge her for that silence, I need you to understand why she was silent. Because if she had spoken in 1965, or 1975, or even 1995, they would not have investigated César Chávez. They would have destroyed Dolores Huerta. Full stop. We’ve seen that movie before.

But here’s where it gets complicated — and this show doesn’t run from complicated.

The same week Chávez’s name is coming off buildings, Jeff Epstein’s client list is still a closely guarded secret. The Catholic Church has paid out billions — with a B — to survivors, and the institution is still standing, still collecting, still canonizing saints. Donald Trump has thirty-four felony convictions and a seat in the Oval Office. So let’s be honest about what’s actually happening here: we are very good at erasing individual people — especially individual Brown people — and remarkably reluctant to dismantle the systems that make monsters possible in the first place.

That’s the through-line today. From Chávez to R. Kelly. From Bill Cosby to Thomas Jefferson. From J.K. Rowling to Kanye West — who sold out two SoFi Stadium shows, eighty thousand seats each, with no promoter and no advertising, which is either a miracle or a warning, and I’m not sure it’s a miracle.

The question isn’t whether bad people can make great things. History has answered that. The question is: what do we owe the people they harmed — and what does it say about us when we decide the art is worth more than the answer?

Antonio, Lybroan, Jon — let’s get into it.

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, or  YouTube and let us know. Til the next time...left on Founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Or today's bonus episode is about Dolores Huerta and the strength of women. It's about Sejar Chavez and the weakness of some men. And it's about how do we hold to the work that they did and let the people go. And so there are discussions of sexual assault. I think we touched on genocide, violence in a lot of different forms. And we just want you to know. So this is your trigger warning. And we hope you appreciate but not enjoy this conversation on Three for the Founders.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

We're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored. Give me a high five. All right, cut and print.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

Beautiful guys.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Dynomite. Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years, and now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Go back, go back. What actually wanted to talk about now that we're warmed up. Yeah. Was and I talked to my mom about this this morning.

SPEAKER_05 1:37

Yeah, I was gonna say suddenly the room got quiet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, Carolyn's in the in the room.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

The room got quiet uh a week and a half ago when Dolores Huerta confirmed that Cesar Chavez was a rapist and a child molester. And within 24 hours, um people were prying his name off of buildings, yeah, people were his murals. The the holiday named after him was being changed to Farm Workers' Day, governments, individuals, and the speed with which I have to say she was believed, right? Because she's Dolores Huerta, right, which means she she had to have some status, but she also said, I haven't said anything for 60 years because I didn't want to damage the movement that we built, that we were building, the work was more important than me as an individual. Holy shit. And the Epstein files mention Donald Trump a billion times.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

But regardless of that, how many people I'll see his name being peeled off of the side of buildings.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

No, he's he's rushing to put it up as as often as possible. But how many people are mentioned in there and not one prosecution has happened? The only person in jail for for Epstein's crimes uh is Ghislaine Maxwell, a woman. Thank you. And uh we talked about you know the Michael documentary is coming out, and you know, to quote Cat Williams, he Michael Jackson was playing with them little children's and so how quickly or how slowly do we remove people who have done great things for the violations of humanity? And you know, there are a whole host of like it was super easy for me to take R. Kelly off my playlist.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

I'm still on mine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Okay. His music wasn't that good. The R? Oh I didn't say it up music. No, no, no. I didn't say it wasn't good music. Okay. I was saying him uh uh uh trafficking and imprisoning, kidnapping, and sexually torturing girls made it real easy.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Like I yeah, his music wasn't good enough to overcome that. Gotcha. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

No, okay, I got you now. Yeah. Nobody's music's good enough to overcome that. Except Elvis Presley, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Michael Jackson's is Chamon.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Yes, yeah. I don't know if that's the conversation we're having. Like, at what point do you stop listening to an artist? At what point, you know, based on their personal lives, uh, you know, the entire world of comedy that worshipped Bill Cosby all those years, you know, only a few comedians will even say his name. Um but I I just I just have to pause on this one, and I I think it's still staying within the conversation that we're having, though, but the strength of Dolores Huerta to shoulder that burden for six decades for the sake of the cause. I don't know if there's a more apt illustration of the strength of a woman than than that. Like someone saying, I will silently suffer for decades. Victim of the patriarchy, and it's just over and over and over again men in power taking advantage of exactly what all men seem to want at a primal level, which was sexual domination over women. Yep, the common denominator. It's so sad, man. It's so sad.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Fail. She held in the game, she held it for 60 years to keep the for the sake of the movement. Yep. What made her now come out with this at this particular time? That's what I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

The New York Times was doing an investigative article. They've been investigating it for five years because two of the young women, two of the girls, let's not adultify. Thank you. Uh they were 12 and 13 when he started molesting them. Um and uh you know somebody knew. You know somebody knew. A lot of people I don't know how the New York Times got on it, but the New York Times has been investigating for five years. Got it. And at the end of their investigation, they went to her and they said, here's what we already know. Got it. What do you know? Okay. She still didn't, I I from what I understand, she still wouldn't have said anything.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

They wouldn't have.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

But they came and she confirmed it and said, and this is my story.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Okay. Yeah. Totally, I get that. Now, my issue is like you look at Bill Cosby guilty. Apparently now Cesar Chavez guilty, uh, R. Kelly guilty. And how they are punished versus the people in the Epstein files, the Catholic Church. Now, the Catholic Church has paid billions of dollars for raping little kids. And why is there still a Catholic church? Why are people still Catholic? So you're gonna not play, you don't you don't want to mention Bill Cosby, you don't want to listen to R. Kelly, but you're gonna still be Catholic after hundreds of kids, thousands have been raped by religious people? That is where you lose me. Why Trump is still in office after 34 convictions and a million times in the Epstein file, and why they won't release the names in the Epstein file and while no one's been prosecuted, like you have to be convicted first. Sejar Chavez likely did those things, but has he been convicted of those things? And how do you so quickly erase all the things he's done when other people are given either the benefit of the doubt or at least some time for it to have it examined? That's what I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

Well, LeBron, you you know, you've said these things before. Yeah. These are and I'm so glad you brought up both the Catholic Church and the Epstein Files and Trump in the same in the same thought because they're both religious. They're both religions. Trump Trumpism is a religion, it's a cult. Catholicism is a religion and it's culty. Yes. You know, and so the it's so easy to prosecute quickly in the court of public opinion a single brown man who is no longer here, or even if he was here. You know, it's it's so easy to just go, yeah, take his name off. But the Catholic Church and Trump are systems of power, and there are too many people reliant on those systems, the people in charge and the people who benefit from them. You know, think about all the families who go to church and feel like, you know what, yes, I don't agree with the raping of little boys by priests, but also here's a lovely priest. And when I burn a candle here for my Aunt Edna, who's sick, I really believe that through my faith, God is gonna do something. Like they don't want to lose that system. But you're not, I think people in general aren't attached to any system when it comes to Cesar Chavez to a single brown man.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's not true.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I mean that so César Chavez, right? The Chicano Studies Center at UCLA is named the Cesare Chavez Center for Chicano Chicano and Chicano Studies. Um, and that's just one.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

He's got he he before this all came out, he had it more murals across Los Angeles than Kobe. Sure. Thank you. And and and so what the the UFW did, what the Lora Suerta and and César Chavez did, right, on the backs of Filipino farm workers, which is a whole different aspect of the story, can't be diminished to just one brown man.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Right. And so the reason I brought this up again, right? J.K. Rowling is out here saying that any money that she makes from this new Harry Potter television show is gonna go to anti-trans legislations and organizations as she fights, quote unquote, for women, um, when really she's just trash. And yet the books are about inclusion and the books are about understanding, and the books are about standing up for what is right. And so there is one question which is do you appreciate the art while disregarding the artist, or do you have to let it all go because there's some piece of it that says, if I enjoy it, I'm supporting it.

unknown 11:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Oh, that's a slippery slope.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

We know obviously Pam Bondi is supporting Donald Trump. We know that all of those people in the Epstein files are supporting, and if not financially right, emotionally and culturally, they are pushing not to have this stuff come out. Like, I don't know what he's got on Lindsey Graham, but he's got some third graders on Lindsey Graham, that's what he got. Right. The Catholic Church is the wealthiest organization on the planet.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Yep. We know who's number two, but Antonio already addressed that, so go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Apple? No. Oh, sorry. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

Well, I want to go back. Um like I I appreciate you pushing me back, especially, and I forgot about the very deeply personal connection your family has with the Cesar Chavez program, especially at UCLA. And and I don't mean to diminish the importance of that, and there are plenty of people, especially in California, especially in Southern California and Central California, that see have have been raised, myself included, as Cesar Chavez is this iconic figure that is, you know, Mount Rushmore when it comes to people who were for the people. I guess what I'm saying is there's white culture, the dominant systems in place aren't aren't connected to that. You know, that but the Catholic Church, Trump, Epstein, this the the systems of power that they would collapse. Like they would collapse if and didn't someone say that about the Epstein files, like we can't release all this, the whole thing, it's the whole thing's gonna collapse. We're like, yeah, let it let it go. Let the chips fall. Um I guess I'm talking about scale and you know, the scale of these things and there being a religious aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

And I I don't I don't disagree. I can understand that, and the speed with which he's been removed from California to Texas speaks to scale, but it also speaks to a willingness to let him go.

unknown 13:22

Right?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Give me any reason that uh right. The conversation that I was having with my mom, and she made the comment, she said, had Dolores Huerta said something when it happened, they would have destroyed her. They would have destroyed her with him. Had Dolores Huerta said something 30 years ago, right before or right after he passed, he passed in 93, they would have destroyed her. They would have said, Why did you say something now? The fact is that she is 96 years old and she didn't say something, she confirmed something and then told her story. And because she is who she is, she has to be that in order for this to be a reckoning. For people to believe her. For people to believe her. Because R. Kelly was in them streets and people knew. Huffy was in them streets and people knew. People knew. Bill Cosby was in them streets and people knew. People knew. Michael Jackson was in them streets and people knew. People knew, yep. And they covered for him. Yeah. And they said, Oh, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Well, especially when you when you what I respect about, especially about the Lotus Werta is that this was a movement that she wasn't getting rich off of. In the other examples, you whether it's R. Kelly or Michael Jackson or Bill Cosby or whomever, JK, these these are people getting rich off of keeping that person in power, you know? And and so that a wealthy person employs a lot of, especially a wealthy entertainer employs a lot of people. A lot of people, yeah. Whereas the United Farm Workers uh, it was UFW, right? Yeah, United Farm Workers Movement. That was not a money movement for individual people. That was not an entourage of folks making millions. I'm guessing, I'm assuming. Um I think that's fair assumption. Yeah. So the righteousness of the cause of her not wanting to speak up is so much greater than the someone not wanting to speak up because, well, I like Michael Jackson's music. No, I want to keep getting paid. So I'm not gonna say anything.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

But the piece of it that that strikes me, and you know, the piece of it that strikes me is I don't have Michael Jackson on any of my playlists. Like I I literally removed him. My cousin literally was the the president of his fan club.

SPEAKER_05 15:48

Wow. Damn. He pulled out the bona fides, okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Well, I but I but I only say that to say if a Michael Jackson song comes on, if Thriller comes on, you know, uh Billy Jean beat it, you're gonna hit it. Unless I check myself, I'm going to sing along. And I'm gonna sing along because the emotional landscape of my life is tied to that music. And am I gonna go see this biopic that's coming out? Because it is attached to the family, which means that they get to protect his legacy. Yeah. And there are enough people who are still going to support that that they don't have to reckon with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

So is it's not it's you're standing on principle, it not necessarily the net effect that you're gonna have on the Michael Jackson estate. You're just saying on principle. And but here's the thing, like, where's because I am more of the I'll listen to every artist, I don't care what they've done. I it's art. And where's the line? But what I'm starting to think is we're having this conversation now. Oh, you know where the line is? Kids. That's the line. Like Jerry D. Lewis. Right exactly, marrying your 13-year-old cousin, right? Elvis. Um uh Elvis you married a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_05 17:17

Yeah, he didn't. Priscilla was like 17 or something when he was. 16 or 17?

SPEAKER_02 17:22

14 when they met. She was 19 or 20 when they got married.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

Oh, well, that's fine, Megan Kelly. I'm sorry, my bad. One of my things. Well, Megan Kelly was like, I know I shouldn't even be saying this, but at least they were 15 in the Epstein files. That's very different than being 12. I'm like, are you hearing yourself right now, Megan Kelly? Come on. But I'm what I'm saying is in relate related to this conversation, it's kind of like, look, man, everybody we esteem to some degree had a dark, everybody's got a shadow of self. Everybody's got a dark side. So how puristic do you want to be when it comes to I can't consume this person's art because fill in the blank? We could talk about Van Gogh or Van Gogh, I think I was properly pronounced, being this or Schubert. I mean, he died of syphilis as a lot of people did back then, which meant who's sleeping around with who knows? Like, what moral line do we draw? And like I'm saying, maybe it's a wide road until you start messing with kids. And that's when we draw the line and say, fuck no, I'm not listening to your shit because you were sex trafficking, our sex trafficking R. Kelly. But is that worse than Cosby drugging adults?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

I think I I guess my road is a little bit wider. If you actively caused harm as your entertainment, you gotta go.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

So if the entertainment itself causes harm.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

No. If if what you do in the time that you're not creating art is hurting other people, you gotta go. You gotta go.

SPEAKER_05 18:53

All right. Well, that eliminates a lot of the music library that exists. Um, probably most of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

I don't I don't know that, but uh, but but but what you do about those you saw you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Like two live crew. Like would you think two live crew is like Boy Scouts out on the road?

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Hey, hey, ease up, ease up, my brother. Ease up. You could take Michael and R, but leave Uncle Luke alone.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Bro, bro, I mean but so but but right, even if so NWA. Blow the whistle. NWA what?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Right. Yeah. I'm saying NWA was famous for their thing, but so were the go-go's. And we're well, people being hurt, and that's it. No, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about by Felicia, I'm talking about Dre beating up, you know, D Barnes in a in a bathroom. Right. And not saying anything to F. Gary Gray. Like, has he has he made restitution? Sure. Sure. Yeah. And like, I'm not talking about holding somebody accountable. Brian Stevenson always says, you know, nobody is nobody should be judged by their worst act.

unknown 20:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

And I think there's a certain amount of truth in that. I also think that if that's your lifestyle, I'm a judge you. Puffer, I'm a judge you.

SPEAKER_05 20:20

It's a body of work thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Michael Jackson, I'm gonna judge you. J.K. Rowling, I'm gonna judge you. Louis C.K., am I gonna judge you? Like, you were kind of a dick, and you probably would have kept being a dick.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

Yeah, I've probably been exposed. I mean, so many of these artists, so many of these artists, comedians, especially when you bring up Louis C.K., they are fulfilling a fantasy that they had since they went through puberty. 11 to 12 year old boys who weren't the popular guys, they weren't they weren't the jocks, they weren't big and physically dominating or necessarily good looking. They were funny, they were creative, so they were kind of like, oh, isn't he cute? And then they get some power and some money, and pretty soon they got women coming after them, and now they are like making up for lost time. And you know, so it's it's it's not um, I guess what I'm I'm just narrating what I see happen over and over again in the creative arts. The ones who screw up and get caught and then actually learn the lesson and have the reckoning that's necessary and apologize and come out the other side different, you can respect that, man. Um but it's so rare. I mean, it's rare this it's always because they get caught. And that goes back to the point.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

I know Antonio doesn't agree, but that's why I say people are complex. So you can put you can be an artist and you have a good side and a bad side. So I'm just curious if if what you do, you do good for the world and you do bad, do you weigh the bad more than you weigh the good?

SPEAKER_05 22:01

I think math man, it's got to be on balance. It's like body of work, what outweighs the other, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

But but that's a personal decision, though.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah. If what you do is not an act but a pattern.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

It wasn't your worst day. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

I didn't take Chris Brown off my playlist. I did for a minute, but for a minute, yeah. But but that's what I'm saying, right? Yeah. Did he have an issue? Yeah. Did he do some shit he shouldn't have done? Yeah. Does he do it? Does he is he still doing it? I don't think so. Right. I mean, let's be fair. I didn't have a lot of Chris Brown on my playlist. To begin with, unless I was But but my point is, if what you are doing is a repeated, is a repeated injuries and usurpations. Usurpations. To quote Thomas Jefferson's raping ass.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Speaking of body of work. Jeez. Body ever work. Work too many bodies.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

How do you father seven children on an enslaved woman and then keep them enslaved? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Isn't he on the isn't he on the money? Is he on some money? Is he on one of the currencies? Jefferson?

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Yeah. Jefferson is uh he's the hundred. No, that's Franklin.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

He's a Jefferson's a two dollar. Oh, they made his ass a two dollar bill. Okay, good. All right. It ain't in circulation anymore, anyways. I mean it's in circulation, but yeah. Isn't it there? Question is this like I understand drawing those lines. But what are we cherry picking the crimes?

SPEAKER_05 23:44

Look at he's got a Washington. No, that's Jefferson. Oh, he got the two. That's the Jefferson?

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Was that the Hamilton? I can't see that far.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

It's Jefferson. Hamilton's on $10. The $10 founding father without a father. Got a lot father about it.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Oh, that's catchy. You should write that down.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

So that's what we're doing. Picking and choosing crimes. No. Because if it's crimes against humanity, then I say leave America then. Because it's a repeated crime over and over again. Slavery, oppression.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Who's the one person? Who's the one person, LeBron?

SPEAKER_03 24:20

What? Who's the one person?

SPEAKER_02 24:24

We're talking about how do you Oh, not institutions.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

You're now you're going to just individuals. The easy talk.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I started with individuals. I'm not going to start with the question. Okay, gotcha. That's where we started. Right. And I'm saying that to say if you try to solve every problem in the world at the same time, you're not going to do shit. I was talking about A, the strength of the Lora Suerta. Yes. And B the accountability for César Chavez in conflict or in contrast with the non-accountability for all of these other folks. Got it. Because people are emotionally attached to what they have provided for the world.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Got it. So then let me clarify this question, Antonio. Sure. Based on the current information, where do you where does Cesar Chavez sit with you personally right now?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

He gotta go. I had this conversation. So the question that I ask my students is, is Thomas Jefferson a great man? And when I told my mom that, she was like, that's not the question. The question is, can a bad person do good things?

SPEAKER_05 25:49

And the answer is yes, a bad person can do good things. It still means they're a bad person, and what do you do with it?

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Or could it be a good person who did bad things? Or is it a bad person who sometimes did good things? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Well, I would say one time. One time. One thing. Uh one thing. One time. One time. But I I really do have this, I really do have this debate. JK Rowling is a perfect example, and the funny thing is, she's alive. But am I holding her? Is it easier to hold her accountable because she's a woman?

SPEAKER_05 26:26

Well, you you're always good at bringing that angle into it. Uh genuinely. I mean, even it was an aside, I have to say this. When we met last week and LeBron, you couldn't because of because of I don't know, some school bullshit you're doing, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Um some some PhD or some what I don't even know.

SPEAKER_05 26:43

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, I don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

Um I was I report, I was wearing my UCLA shirt and I reported to Antonio. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm wearing this even though we lost. And and Antonio was like, the the men lost? I was like, oh yeah, the women are playing too. Oh yeah, the men lost. Yeah, though the women are kicking ass, they're undefeated or something. Thank you. Number one, hello. Final four. Thank you. Oh, dude. Yes, yeah. And uh yeah, so I I appreciate Antonio always bringing that properly, uh bringing us back and keeping us within the guardrails.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

But still, where is he with where where are you where is he sitting with how are you feeling about it? How are you processing it? Because if you ask me something like Martin Luther the King or But Martin Luther King was cheating on Coretta all the time.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

He had hoes.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yes, and the FBI made sure he had hoes.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

He's got hoes. He's got hoes in different area codes. Area cold. I had a dream.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

I have a dream. Them hoes was in my room.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

And if you heard some of the recordings, oh my. Um, that's what I was gonna ask is about J.K. Rowling. Oh, go ahead, LeBron. What? No, no, go ahead. Are there transcripts of her talking about the or are there interviews? I want to hear her talk about this stuff. I've only read little clips of things she's go read her Twitter.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Go read her Twitter. Really? Oh, yeah. She's publicly so here's the thing, right? They they say these things with their full chest. They're not when you have somebody who's that far off, they're not mumble mouthed about it. Dave said this, and we we jump down his throat. I speak from the eye, I jump down his throat about it, right? But his point was they don't see it the way you see it, otherwise, they wouldn't say what they're saying. Right. They see it as doing the right thing. J.K. Rowling, I definitely believe, feels that she is defending cisgender women against trans women.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Without having any, I don't know, self-awareness.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

JK, show me show me on the bear where a trans man hurt you.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Right. That she's there's something there. She did write Star Wars with shitty lightsabers, but it's a pretty good book. And it's about inclusion and it's about taking people where they are. Yeah. Luna Lovegood, Neville, like all of these characters who don't have any friends, and yet she's out here with her full chest saying that somebody should be marginalized.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

Yeah. I'm gonna go read her stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Meaning, I want to hear it. No, I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. And I call it. I called her a horse.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Sorry, horses. No, no horses were harmed in the making of this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah, man. So it just I I I but to answer your question, LeBron, like says that real easy for me to say he's dead to me. And that's the easy one because he's actually dead.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

I was gonna say literally literally or figuratively.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

And Jefferson, is that an easy one? It is for me.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

Yeah. And it doesn't diminish the work that they did. To me, I mean, again, that I don't know if I'm shallow, but as an artist too, it's like Michael Jackson, like seminal. I mean, you can't you and I can I can subtract the person from the art, meaning just as objectively as I can be, like that is good art. The work Cesar Chavez did for workers amazing work, stellar. Some of the intellectual output of Thomas Jefferson is still stellar, intellectually also. I but I mean, but I do experience it from an artistic perspective, in the same way you're talking about Cesar Chavez, too. When I learned certain things about Billy Joel, when I learned certain things about Ray Charles, two men who I had emulated, I was like, I I experienced their music differently now.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Besides the fact that he was a drunk and an asshole to his wife.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

That and he treated his drummer Liberty Davido like a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

And Liberty made him, and so not made him the guy the guy that the guy that like didn't come back, right? Like he just cut him loose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

And and other things, you know. I mean, the the most recent uh three-part series about Billy Joel made me like him a little bit better because he seemed to have reckoned with his himself and he had a lot of self-awareness, which is great. But even Ray Charles stuff that I learned before Jamie, uh Jamie Foxx played him. Like I was like, oh man, I wish he was not an asshole to people. Shit. So made me enjoy the art less, so I experience it less. And I'm imagining, you know, what you're talking about with Cesar Chavez being dead. It's like, damn, that wasn't that used to be an emotional surge, like a source of pride, right? Like, yeah, that that name strengthened you. Now it's diminishes. That's that's tragic.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

But it's appropriate. The only thing that that that hurts me about the Cesar Chavez story is that when it's people of color, it's not the individual, it's the whole collective that's harmed. So that's that's hard for Latino people. So if they if something happens, if Michael Jackson happens, that's hard for all black people. We all get painted with that broad bush, broad brush. White people, you can do stuff individually. Like Epstein can do stuff, be the worst sex trafficker in the world. Madoff could be the biggest criminal in the history of the world, but no one blames all the Jewish people. They just blame those individuals.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

And they just killed Epstein in his cell.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

So there you go. So that's the that's the part I hate is that the the broad brush is that we're the whole community, the whole culture is then attached to that one person's digressions.

unknown 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

So this episode is gonna come with a trigger warning.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

My trigger. My trigger.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

I learned I can't say that in front of my kid. Watch, this is the part where my dad explains he has black friends, so he can say it.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

You damn straight son. Thank you. I'm just emotionally distraught right now. I'm all fucked. Thank you for listening to no matter what y'all say, I love me, Michael Jackson. I love R. Kelly, I love Bill Cosby, what he did for black people, and I love Siby Charza Cesar Cesar Tarvez, no matter what you say. They got transgressions, great. But what they've done and contributed, for me, um I'm not down with them, but I appreciate what they've contributed. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

That's I mean, but honestly, that's the question. You can appreciate the work. Because you're right, Bill Cosby, like Bill and well, let's let's be honest, Bill and Camille.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

And Camille, for sure. Don't forget to be Camille. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

No, we're funding the sweater industry and business. Like they were funding HBCUs, they were contributing to all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_05 34:31

He helped my friend, a jazz musician who was here fleeing the war in Nicaragua. He helped him not get deported back to Nicaragua. He donated to his because he's a fan of jazz. So yeah, he did a lot for a lot of good for people. He did.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah. And he raped people. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

He did. He did both of those things. Both of those things. That's why people are complex.

SPEAKER_05 34:54

Listen. Nobody is all one thing. Right. Nobody is all one thing. But I tell you, thank you for listening and watching Left On Founders.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah. That's I mean.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at three for the founders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok. Or send us a text through Buzz Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, Left on Founders, we out.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Even the the bonus one from today, the Dolores Huerta, uh, because it started there, but then really it was about do you cancel people? And if you do, why? And if you don't, why? And we got into that whole piece.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

You saying that was good? You liked today's along those lines, or or was it? I did.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

I wish we had come back to, and and we kind of did, because at you know, 20 minutes in, LeBron's like, I don't care what y'all say. I love Michael Jackson, I love Bill Cosby, I love R. Kelly.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

Do you know that's what you sound like, LeBron? Just like the the the thing he's doing right now. Listen to it again.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

I love it. That's how he said it.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

That's not usually what he listened to. Usually he sounds like this. But that's how he said it. That is how I said it, yeah. That's how he said it. That's true. And and it was because it was actually, he was like, Man, fuck that. I I'm bullshit. I'm not down with that. And so then we got into a conversation. He's like, Well, where is Cesar Chavez for you? And we didn't we didn't close it, we just sort of ended it.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yeah. And so I just I wanted to close that one, man, because that was important to me personally, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Right. And there's always an opportunity. Like, there's nothing to say that we can't revisit it. Um who was it that oh yay. Like, we didn't talk about Ye at all.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

And sure had. And so there was there's an opportunity there to really dig into, right? Because Ye is a black man who's alive, who has said a whole bunch of heinous shit. Yes. And done, you know, shit that some people thought was brave and whatever, and other people were like, you're just a dick. Um right. And so you're right, he sold out two shows at SoFi. That's 80,000 people each. That's 160,000 people. That's more than have downloaded this podcast.

SPEAKER_05 38:03

So for more than 51 countries represented.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

So you see how they're blocking him from going to the UK.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah, they said we don't want your ass.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

Well, hold on, I gotta ask a question. So, LeBron, what was it that made you so enthusiastically go see Kanye West?

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Oh man, he's one of my favorite artists. Yeah. Are you kidding me? Hip-I mean, for the era I grew up in, I mean, Kanye is the man, and he has a his art is genius. And but remember, genius is right on the edge of crazy. So you they they bounce back and forth on both sides of the line. Sure. And so, you know, what what I admired about him most was that he understands how the system works. Yeah, and so what impressed me is that he sold out so far two nights with no promoter, no advertising. So all the middlemen who usually suck money out of people who are artistic, who have no talent, but know the system to suck money out of them, they didn't get to suck any money out of him. And I was like, finally, someone figured out how the game is played without the middleman. But that's more on a okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

I think you're giving him credit. I think all he's done is self-promotion since before the college dropout. He's the one that walked into who is it? Jamie Foxx was telling the story how he walked into the house with a backpack on. He's like, Who are you? He's like, I'm Kanye West, I'm the best rapper ever. And that's what he sounded like. And then he was like, Hey, I want you to do this thing, and he got him to record slow jams at Jamie's house, and then that blew up. Like the college dropout is genius. I think you're right. I think he is there. But when he says things like slavery is a choice and he wears shit with Candace Owens, like white lives matter, I'm I'm over you.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Do you think he believes that, or is he doing that just to promote himself? Because to LeBron's point, either way, he knows he's promoting himself.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

But but but he's been a self-promoter. So when you say he sold out self-fi with no promoter, he had a promoter.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

You said he's been building his. No, no, no. But you yeah, but you don't understand all artists have to promote themselves, but you don't have the power to get through the mechanisms of the system to do that.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

This is the same guy that that fathered four children on a Kardashian on the show. Tell me about his power. Tell me about tell me about his visibility. Tell me he wasn't on TMZ getting blasted, and that wasn't being pushed to 400,000 people, 400 million people. Okay, so he so all of that promotion, like that was if there was anybody as a promoter, quote unquote, on Kanye West's tour, that person is sitting in their chair saying, Kanye, go out in front of the cameras. They were not doing anything.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

Well, yeah, it's it's just his whole game has been this, is what you're saying. So this let this is just another chapter of the game he's been playing the whole time. It's another chapter of the game, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

Right. But I will say this. After uh, so what is it? College dropout, late registration. What's the third album?

SPEAKER_05 41:23

Fantasy one, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Um 808 and Heartbreak.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

That might have been it. It's one of those, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

That's where he lost me.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

His genius was too far afoot.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

Too far afoot. LeBron, did you sit in at SoFi? Was there any part of the same Kanye we've been seeing that looks like he's off his meds? Like, did he say any crazy shit? What what was what was it like as a performance?

SPEAKER_03 41:51

The funny thing is the first night he was on his meds. The night I went, he was on his meds. Um and the meds are, you know, they're doing uh some some wacky ass stuff to him that I know about personally, but he was then he was better on Friday night. So Friday night was actually the great show. That's when Lauren Hill came out. That's when That was the second show? The second show, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:14

And you're saying that's when he was just a little more off, like and which is what we could see.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

He was he was off the night I went he was back on to Kanye by Friday.

SPEAKER_05 42:24

But he was on his meds when he saw him, which made him off as a performer, right? And then that's my point I'm making. It's like off his, and this is the unfortunate reality of celebrity. We it's the train wreck thing. Like we like watching a train wreck. Now, with geniuses, sometimes that train wreck translates into incredible art. But I I mean see Amy Winehouse, see Prince, see like you know, people who just like the system and their genius was this cycle of abuse and that and desperation and despair, which created incredible art. So I'm just wondering, like, yeah, night two, he's off his meds, but he's on his game, right? He's off his meds, but he's on his game. Yeah, because that's what we like to see. We want to see the crazy Kanye. We want to see that shit. Yeah. And you didn't see it, but you still liked the concert that was still good?

SPEAKER_03 43:13

It was still good. It was still good. Okay. I was just surprised at the diversity of people there. And I didn't think he was still that popular. I thought he had fallen off. I was like, oh shit, this motherfucker is still.

SPEAKER_05 43:29

I think a number of people do buy the ticket though to see, okay, well, because of the train wreck thing, like, what the fuck, what's gonna happen? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

That's an expensive train wreck to watch.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

You're in Los Angeles, they got a lot of money around here.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

I get that right.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

That's still an expensive train wreck to watch.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

But he was in China before this selling out stadiums like every night in China.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

So I mean, so they they got good taste in music, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

I mean, do they? Like, I'll say it again 808 and Heartbreak is where he fell off. For me, Jesus Walk might be the best hip-hop song I've ever heard. Yeah. Might be the best hip-hop song.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Might be. It's up there. But you know he has more plays on I don't even think. Is it Spotify? Is that the one where everybody then Taylor Swift? Is that what you're gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 44:18

No, no, then he beat the white girl. Because he did beat the white girl.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

He beat the white girl. He beat Jay-Z, he beat everybody. So by a lot. Over a billion uh streams or whatever. That's not my world, I'm just telling you. Yeah. So I'm not I'm not a Kanye promoter. I just like his songs, and that's it. So I'm not I could take them or leave him, you know. I I'll I'll stick with R. Kelly, though. I'm sticking with an R. Kelly. I'm cool. The man's got his convictions. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

When he's got songs named when he's got songs named Hump Bounce, you you deal with that, you, you handle that. I'm okay. Why, why? It just had okay. Anyway, no, I but when I say we didn't get into yay, right? And there are a number of people who I just don't fuck with anymore. I don't I don't need to, right? My struggle, right? We're we're our our our conversation, my my t-shirt is a is a literary struggle. I think Harry Potter, Star Wars with Shitty Lightsabers, is one of the best heroes journey. It is, and if y'all don't know what I'm talking about, just stop right now. Go on TikTok, go on Instagram, type in Star Wars with shitty lightsabers. There's a comedian, and I should know who he is as white dude by name, but I don't. And he just runs it down, compares Star Wars, and by this I mean episode four, episode four, a new host.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yes, there we go.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

With Harry Potter, and he talks about the characters and he talks about everything, whatever. J.K. Rowling sitting in that coffee shop on welfare with her infant child, took a hero's journey and created a world that is important, and she created a world that is diverse, and she created a world that people who find themselves marginalized in society can adhere and adapt to. And then she went and peed on all of it, and I don't know why, and I don't understand it, and I'm struggling to hold on to the art and the world because the woman's gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

For our audience and for me, because I'm ignorant, what does she do to pee on it? Because I ain't heard nothing.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

So she has with her and John. I dropped in a video, a visual. So if you go look at episode 39, monuments and monsters on YouTube, you'll see when John says, I want to see what she actually said. I took a screenshot of her Twitter. It's a picture that says, trans women are women. And she retweeted it, and all it says is nope, period. And that was the most generous of her tweets. Wow. She has publicly said that she doesn't want men in women's restrooms, which isn't what trans women are. Right. She's she's with her whole chest gone out there to defend something that nobody was attacking.

SPEAKER_05 47:49

I wonder why she chose this one. Right? That's what I'm wondering, LeBron. Like, what is she's clearly so capable of multilayered thought and and intelligence and uh again being on the side of the the perceived outsider writing an entire narrative and creating an entire universe, inventing Quidditch. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

That alone I mean, come on. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

But tearing yourself in pieces and horcruxes and the email that men do.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

It's amazing. And but uh it's kind of like the church, but you know, I know we've we had plenty of talks about that. Like they they just they just obsess over certain things. They obsess over homosexuality, they obsess over abortion, they obsess over trans issues that are like so like.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Do you want me to go change my shirt?

SPEAKER_02 48:42

What's that so I can have the other one that says when a foreigner is among you, he should be treated as your native-born? Like I could Bible quote.

SPEAKER_05 48:49

Why don't we obsess about that? Exactly. And my point is like, why is JK Rowling saying, like, why is this the thing? Why is why is she planting her flag on this hill? Why is she saying I'm gonna die on this hill? There's gotta be some stuff, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

It's something to do with family or somewhere connected. There's gotta be, dude. That's something personal that we don't know about.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

But go back to Kanye, right? And his whole, like, his mother is a professor, was a professor. Yes. Shout out R.I.P. Danda. Right? Like, he didn't come from a troubled home where he was oppressed by Jewish people. But that's what comes out when he's off his meds. Uh right, I don't understand slavery as a choice. You know, I don't know whether or not I mess with Van Latham, but I know at that point when he confronted him and he said, When you say that, that's offensive. Right? Exactly. Like, there are things that he did that have nothing to do with Semitism or anti-Semitism, that mean I don't fuck with Kanye. And yet I the college dropout is is a work of genius. Like, you cannot deny that.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Right. Just like Harry Potter's a work of genius that we can't deny.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

And you can't deny that, right? And so it it has really struck me like all of these people, Cesar, I'm good with you. You you you can go, the work can stay. The Declaration of Independence, really nice letter. And it's got some really strong parts. That list of grievances, whatever. But we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creators with certain inalienable rights. The chief among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Like that's true.

SPEAKER_05 50:48

You're separating it from the man because it's good work. I'm still just Did I incorrectly finish your sentence for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

I'm I'm not separating it from the man. You can't separate it from the man because this is the man who held the woman in bondage and fathered seven children upon her and didn't free any of the children. Didn't free any of the children. But all men are created equal.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

So I can understand the truth and still challenge the truth sayer. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:23

So the truth LeBron is saying is Kanye is a good rapper and good hip hop artist, no matter how that's all I'm saying. I ain't saying nothing else besides that.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

But you well, this is the part where we like, you know, I get accused of name dropping up in here. Like, LeBron, did you pay for them tickets? Or did you get them tickets?

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Yeah, I paid for them tickets. How much you pay for them tickets? For the art, I think it was like a thousand bucks for the for the for the tickets. Each? No, no, no, not each for like five or six tickets, something like that. Still, man. He's dropping. The art is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Yeah. Yeah, but you're supporting the artist. Because he ain't got no supporter. I pay taxes then.

SPEAKER_05 52:06

No choice there, though, unless you move. No choice. I mean, you can get away with it for a few years, but if you you know, go see my go see my people. How they all ended up in prison. They didn't get out of the way.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

This current regime, you could probably get away with it for a lot.

SPEAKER_05 52:25

They don't know LeBron is. I know LeBron is successful, but he's not rich enough or white enough to get away with it for too long.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

You got that right. Well, what I the reason I can't get what I do get away with is because I have a phenomenal tax person. Bro, me too.

SPEAKER_05 52:44

Every penny.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Don't say it, LeBron. Don't fucking say it. Don't say it. Fuck it. You're such a. What's he gonna do? Is he gonna give away his such guy's name? John, are you gonna be a little bit more? Listen, I'm here. No, don't listen to him. Look in his face. He's about to say he has a Jewish tax.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Oh no, I'm when you gonna listen to the fuck what's you're a goddamn lie.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

That's 100% where he's not going. I wasn't gonna say it. No, that's what I said. I said, don't say it. Don't say it. I stinted it. I stinted it. You have to state it. I stinted it. He's easy to see coming around corners.

SPEAKER_05 53:20

Well, he's not that easy, but with this one, he's easy. Yes, other times. It's when you see that shit coming around. He was like Sandy Kovax asking me.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

You know why my taxes are great?

SPEAKER_05 53:32

The law offices of Leonard Goldstein and Verbinal.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Don't hate to play. Hate to bagel.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

I hate you. I hate you. I think that this conversation about canceling artists. I think that this conversation about Cesar Chavez being a rapist and a child molester. I think that how we treat people that we elevate because they do good things for us is important. I think that I have a good friend of mine who in his youth did things that he shouldn't have done. And yet I know he at his core is a good person. And there are people who have cut him off. And I'm by cut him off, I mean erased him from their lives. And I can't judge them for that. Just like I'm not judging LeBron for going to see Ye. What I can tell you is how I deal with it and what I think is important. And what I think is important is not to give him my money. What I think is important is to say, fuck Jeff Bezos. What I think is important is to pull our podcast off Spotify. What I think is important is to not place myself in places where people are compromised. And I think that's important to all of us, but it how it how it plays out is very different. Sure. Right? That was well stated. We come back to this all the time because, right, I got Lincoln over here, and then outside the frame, I got Kamala standing in front of Donald Trump in a in a jail suit in an orange suit. Because this dude has been convicted of 34 felonies.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

To be clear, it's not Kamala in the suit, it's Donald in the suit, everybody. If you haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Boom, there it is. Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

And if you're if you're just listening on Apple or anything else, then iHeartRadio, sorry, you can't see it, but it's there. So I just think that's important. I think that that that coming back to it, especially listening to the episode this morning, right? Because we're recording on the same day that that Monuments and Monsters dropped. Right. Um, I really didn't. I noticed, like he was, he was, Yeah was the one I noticed. I was like In the conversation we didn't that we that we didn't talk about him.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

Yeah. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Well, because we had the Dolores Huerta thing, and yeah, we started. Yeah, that was much more important at the time, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Sure, but we started with Dolores Huerta, but like most of that, most of it wasn't us talking about that. Most of it was us. Like that was the lead-in. Because shout out to Dolores Huerta, right? The strength of women, my God. The strength of women and the weakness of some men.

SPEAKER_05 56:26

Yeah. Uh, you know, there was a meme recently about all the different countries where the where there's a woman who is the president or the the prime minister, and there was just like, you know, boom, boom, listening, and and showing like video montage of them talking or doing things, and I'm like, man, it's about time that that women take over the shit, man. Because even back to LeBron's original thing about America and being as old as we are and only having five years of peace, it's rarely a woman's solution to say, you know what, let's just go murder them. That's how we're gonna fix this. Let's go murder them. When when you when women have been accused in the past in the patriarchal system of being unfit for leadership roles at the high level, it's because we say they're too emotional. Motherfucker, who's really emotional? Men are so emotional. We just don't use, we don't express it in words. We express it in actions of violence, of depression, of sullenness, of insecurity showing itself in, you know, displays of strength, allegedly. Hello, Pete Heggseth. I mean, it's just I I you know what I mean? Like it's it's time for the women to lead. I'm ready. I'm ready. You got my vote. And I gotta tell you, Antonio, you were with her the whole time. Even when Bernie Sanders was taking up all the like bandwidth of the progressive movement, you were like, I stand with her. Hell yeah. Tell us why.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

She was more qualified than any of the rest of these motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

You didn't get swept up in the Sanders in the in the burn. Fuck Bernie Sanders. What is it about him that you didn't like in comparison to her? Obviously.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

He's another old white man who's been saying that shit since forever. And I that's great. The shit he's talking about is cool. Yes, but he's also in his 80s. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_05 58:22

No, she should have him in her he should be in the state with her. He should she should have him as secretary of something.

unknown 58:30

No.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

She should have him exactly where he is. He's been done been how long he's been in Senator Vermont?

SPEAKER_04 58:38

He is a senior senator and dean of the Vermont Congressional Delegation.

SPEAKER_02 58:42

He is a senior senator from Vermont. And that's great. Thank you. I know the AI conversation. Don't say thank you. It takes up another tree. I'm saying sorry. It's that's how that's how my mama and daddy raised me. What would I want to have a good reputation among them when they take over? When they take over. See, that's as AI as we get. But when when he was running, Hillary was more qualified. When he was running, Kamala was more qualified. When he was running, this is where I'm an asshole. My house shoes were more qualified. Like AOC, she's fire. Mamdani, he's fire. Uh uh Javier Bezeda, he's fire. I'm looking at all of these people who have spent their time doing what it is they said they should do, even when the spotlight wasn't on them. Bernie Sanders, back in the day, he was arm in arm with people. He was doing what he should do. And then he's been talking about being arm in arm with them since then. That's great that he is a progressive, he is a democratic socialist, he is all these things. He is also too old to be president.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:00

So the primary thing with him is just his age for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Uh the primary thing is that he never real he never really caught my attention. I know a lot of people who like Bernie Sanders, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Yeah. I don't.

unknown 1:00:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

Is it the message though? Because to me, his message is on point.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

His message is on point. No, yeah. But he never got me.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Seems like we're separating the artist from the art once again.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Like not at all. Not at all. He wasn't the most qualified in the field.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

No one in America is the most qualified. It's not about qualifications. This is the wrong country if you're talking about qualifications. But this is the right podcast, because that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Gotcha. Because John brought up the I'm with her. I was with Hillary. Did she fuck up when she said, but right, but did she fuck up when she said uh uh um what did she say about black kids? No, no, that was true. No, it wasn't true. What did she say? Uh in 94 when they were doing the um the omnibus crime bill, and she talked about uh super predators. Oh she renamed it. I forgot. She was a white woman in political office, but not in political office because all she was was the first lady, and she was doing a job and she said super predators. Okay, so let's give license to basically what was ICE then, which was police pre police presence, and the crime bill gave money, billions to police departments to militarize, whatever. Has she since then learned? Yes. Is the only thing she learned is not to say it out loud? Maybe. But in 2016, she was the most qualified person to be president of these United States. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

So why didn't what why didn't women vote for it? It seemed like women don't vote for women.

unknown 1:02:00

Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

Because women could easily have a uh a female president twice, but women don't even want women to be president. That's the part I can't figure out.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:08

We just saw that with Kamala, and I really thought that was like that was gonna be the windfall. Like, all right, all the women are gonna take care of this. They're gonna vote for Kamala. That's what I thought. All the all the AKAs are gonna line up. All the I mean, the deltas. All the AKAs did line up. All the deltas they did. All the deltas did, yep. But it's that the black folk.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

We need some tri-delt uh though, John. We need the tri-deltas.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:25

We need the tri, we need the tri deltas, we need the kappa kappa gammas, we need the aka's. Do you want me to give you all the white sororities right now? We need the DGs, the Delta Gamas, the DGs.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Is this the part where I dropped the pictures of me and LeBron at somebody's formals during UCLA times? Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Yes, you do. But that's the thing. Why are why didn't women up to support women?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

We started talking about Yay, and we started talking about canceling people, and we started talking about separating people from the art, and then somehow we got into politics in 2016, which a whole bunch of white people voted for Donald Trump.