Perimenopause: Are You Suffering in Silence? #13

What if the way you’ve been feeling isn’t “just getting older”?

In this episode, I sit down with Esther, co-owner of Glow Up Female Fitness, as she shares her personal experience of perimenopause.

We talk openly about the symptoms that caught her completely by surprise - from brain fog and forgetting names she’d known for years to feeling flat, disconnected and simply not like herself.

We also tackle the biggest fears surrounding HRT, including the belief that it causes breast cancer, why so many women still believe that today, and when the latest evidence actually tells us the opposite 

If you’ve ever been told to “just get on with it”… if you’ve been afraid of HRT… or if you’ve been wondering whether what you’re experiencing could be perimenopause, this conversation is for you.

🤍 If this episode resonates with you, please like, subscribe and share it with another woman who needs to hear it.

This podcast shares personal experiences alongside evidence-based discussion. It is intended for education and should not replace personalised medical advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Right, Esther. Right, Tanya. Shall we get straight into it? We shall get straight into it. Okay, so you're here today to help women? Yeah. In what aspect?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Well, just to talk about perimenopause and to make it just to generalize it really to let it be open that it's just for you know it's not a generational age of 50 and 60 for women to be feeling this way. It's younger and younger, and it's just to be really open about it and just address it and know that it's it should be spoken about.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

It's for me, it baffles me that it ever was and still is a taboo very much subject. It just doesn't like for example, when we're in school and we're taught about you know puberty, yeah, and then females are talk about fertility.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Why is it not taught at that point that fertility only lasts so long? And then a woman enters a different phase.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I think as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I don't understand why that's not the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Our mums never spoke about it. Mine didn't, you know, and even now, whenever I had decided, well, not decided, new that I needed to go and get the help, and I'd said to mummy about it, and she says, I think I went through it a touch and touch, but just got on with it. And that's sad. But that's just, you know, and I think that's kind of like the culture that we have as well, isn't that the way we are? We're just us as women as well, we're just like, what's good and got on with it? We don't like to ask for help.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

No, we don't. Which hopefully is changing with newer generations. Yeah. I think definitely it's a lack of um education. Yes. A lack of openness and being f free to talk about it, as you say, from the older generations just sucking it up. Um and also just from the medical side of things, we've been shafted.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Uh yeah. We're still being shafted. Also a bit of embarrassment around it too, because I think once you mention the the term menopause, perimenopause, it's like old. We don't want to admit we're being we're getting older. Um we all there's so many, you know, we want to do everything to reverse aging. Um you know, there's so many other things out there to help reverse aging, but when you mention menopause, it's like you're officially old. You are you are that woman that you know you never thought you would be when really it's it's not an age thing, it's it's a hormone thing. Once the hormone's gone, the hormone's gone. We need help, we need help.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

A hundred percent. I'll never forget realizing that it was perimenopause for me. Now I had to have IVF to have my last wee baby with he's 19 months old with my husband, my new husband. And I never even dawned on me at that point that obviously I needed IVF, even though I had four other children naturally, yeah. Um, that I must have been in perimenopause. It didn't dawn on me, just thought cycles were changing, you know, and uh like didn't bother me at all. Thought, let's just go do this, let's make this happen, the kind of person I am. Yeah, and then with the cycles getting shorter, because that would have been, although I didn't recognise it at the time as a symptom, that would have been probably my first symptom. My cycles going from 28 days to about 21.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Um, and the periods actually lasting longer, so maybe it would have lasted about four or five days, lasting a full week, and they used to be, you know, not that heavy to getting really heavy. It's almost like I'm back to teenager again, even though you're going through those stages of you know becoming older and so it's like your overease and your whole uh reproductive system is trying to fire up if you're ready, so you have all that irregularity, and then now they're they're trying to fire up when they shouldn't be. Yes. Because we're we're not designed to be as fertile at this point, and I think that's that's a protective mechanism. Yeah, you know, if you're fit and you're healthy and you want to have um babies in your 40s and 50s, that's fine. But I think past 50, what happens, you know, with we've got age, we've got um disease, you know, it's it's I don't think it's fair on many humans to be coming in much later than late 50s, maybe if we can't ensure that we're gonna have our health, exactly, you know, our physical well-being. But anyway, that's another one, another one. But for me, um baby was three months old, and I never really had low moods coming up or irritability coming up to my periods, and I think this was like the second time it had happened where I felt really low. Now I wouldn't be someone who suffered from depression, thankfully. Um so I was like, you know, I was I picked up on it really quickly. It's like, what's going on? I didn't want to talk to my husband, and I was feeding baby one night, and I was sitting thinking, I've been through a lot in my life. Very open about that. I'm supposed to be the happiest I've ever been. I am the happiest I've ever been. I've got the most loving, supporting husband. I've got five healthy children, I've just had a new baby, and I couldn't feel any joy.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

I have been exactly the same for me. You know, I am doing my dream job and I've worked hard to get where I am. Um and the gym that we own is beautifully like it's just so well done. It's you know, you would know that women own it because it's just everything is sitting perfect, it's spotless, it's clean, it's aesthetically pleasing, we've got all good machines and properly. Done properly, of course, by women. Um, but when I'd came across from where I was before, um, and all my clients, you know, every one of them are like, I we're so proud of you. Like, are you not really you buzzing? Are you, you know, and I was going, yeah, yeah. And I just felt empty. I just felt like, what is wrong with me? Why am I not, you know, racing to open the unlock that door every morning and just going. And there was moments where I was going in first thing in the morning and it was, it was, you know, it was empty. And I was going in and I was taking it all in, standing and looking around and going, We have created this, like look at this place, it's so good. And you know, the people that have come in and how they felt and walking out and how they felt and what they're you know, they're feeling amazing, they're loving it. And I just remember standing there going, I just felt nothing. And I couldn't admit that to my clients because you know a successful business, yeah, and having the support and the loyalty and having, you know, that sort of you know, just all those feelings and you know, gratitude from them as well. I I just couldn't turn around and go, well, no, but I just felt nothing. It was just weird, you know, it was weird. It's scary, isn't it? It was and I thought, well, but what's wrong with me? Am I am I starting to feel like do you know? I remember I would be quite an empathetic person anyway, and quite sympathetic and really in touch with my feelings and stuff like that, but there would have been times when things would have been I just went over my head. It was weird. I just felt like I wasn't in the room. You know, I can't even describe it. Almost like dissociation. Lost is the word I would use. I just felt not me. And I and it was becoming more evident just with people who were close to me that people were asking me, certain clients when it was PT and they were going, Are you okay today? And I didn't really have been okay, but it was like I didn't feel okay. I felt like I was getting out of bed in the wrong side every day, and it was just that feeling that I couldn't shake it off. Like I was heavy, and I went, No, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then whenever I'd actually said when one of my clients, when obviously button, you know, finally reached out and got the um the HRT, one of my clients went, Well, I'm glad because you were not yourself, but I just didn't think that I was I I wouldn't have like paired it with I I'm not myself or something wrong with me. I just didn't, I just felt heavy, and it wasn't until people were going, Are you okay today? Like flat, flat.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

That's how I would have described it. So I would have been low for about two, three days before, and maybe the first day of my period, but that was it. Yeah, was enough, yeah, too much. But it was the rest of the time it wasn't low, it was flat. Yeah, like I um Yusuf he records this podcast, he does my social media, he's amazing, and I'd be cancelling days on him because I just couldn't bring myself to you know be the person that it needed to be to do the social media, the recording, things like that there.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

I would have done the same. I was actually, you know, I love I'm a very social person. I love you know, any wee things coming up nights out. I I mean I would bear an open of an envelope, that's amazing. Yeah, I'm there, and I would have been just constantly cancelling more things than I was going to, and that is not me as well. Getting anxiety over some. So, how long had this been going on for with you? This probably the more intense, this really intensified, I would say, from opening the business. And that was my excuse of I'm tired, uh, you know, won't the business, I'm stressed, I'm stressed because of the business. Yes, it heightened it all and accelerated it, but I've been feeling probably in and around, you know, scratching the surface on these feelings probably for about you know a good maybe four years or so, and just plan on. And how old are you? 45 in August.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

So I don't know why I thought you were gonna say 39. And being serious, listen, because I thought they'll find touch. I thought that you were quite young, and I thought, but that's the point. Like, women are actually going through it a lot younger than they think, but they're told 45 and above. So to be clear, the nice guidelines, so they're the guidelines that the NHS, you know, their GP practitioner will have to adhere to. Yeah, nice guidelines say it 45 and over. Yeah, but they don't even need to do a blood test, and we'll talk about the blood test in a minute. Yeah, um, with your symptoms alone, that they can convince you on HRT if it's appropriate and yes, you know, safe to try it. But it's happening much younger than that. 45, you're well in perimenopause, most women. And the reason being is that the studies have shown that women go into full-blown menopause. So let's get this straight. We don't go through menopause, we go through perimenopause into menopause, and we stay in menopause state until we pass.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

All right. Do you know what saved me? Well, what's got me to where I am, because obviously I've said I've been feeling this maybe four or five years prior, um, has been what I do. You know, I have been constantly getting that dopamine off my exercise by training because it was routine, so I would have trained, even though I was like, I don't want to cook and I've got there was days I didn't do it because couldn't be bothered, didn't want to, didn't have it in me. But the classes was the thing, because I obviously take classes as well. It was the thing where I had to do it no matter what. And I remember going in sometimes to classes, a full class of of girls, um, and walking in and in my mind going, I've used nothing fucking better to do. Like I am just, you know, I am, you know, feeling that way, and then you know what, doing the class, getting the vibes off everyone, giving the vibes out, getting them back, walking out of that class, feeling amazing and feeling guilty for feeling the way I felt because I was getting that lift again from you know the exercise, and then you're back to back to that night time, just the slump and the you know, feeling but that's what got me through was was the keeping active and doing what I do. So a good thing on one hand, but also masking on the other. Oh, a hundred percent because I really did feel it sometimes that I was like two different people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Well, they say that um up to 40% of women will experience moderate to severe mental health issues, which is quite scary, and then GPs go-to is an antidepressant, you know, thinking they're doing the right thing. Yeah. But within a certain age range, it really should it should be hormones that are looked at if they have other symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Absolutely. You know, and when I with my job, you know, you're in a position where people are paying you to motivate them, people are paying you to be that person where you are making them feel better, whether it be physically and mentally, because that's part and parcel of the job. And I was helping everyone else and wasn't helping myself. Do you know? The place we created was helping everybody else's physical well-being and mental well-being, and I was on my knees. Do you know? It was just you know, I could I could cry when I looked back and at the at the girl, even just even two two months ago.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Would you say you felt broken?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Um, I probably wouldn't have times. Uh yeah, I probably wouldn't want to do it. Yeah, I would. I would just say that I felt even just confused because I didn't really know what was going on. I just felt like I am this way because of the business. I'm stressed, I'm, you know, I'm just it's there's a lot going on, and you know, then there's family life, and you're trying to be a mum and you're trying to be a wife and everything else. You're just, you know, add all that. But did you heard of perimenopause before? Yes, I did. And it never once dawned on you. No, because it just got on with it. It was just like, you know what, I was one of these people, the peer age day. So I'm feeling this way because I'm a bit touchy, or I did well, we're working late, working the line last night and learn again at the half five. There was always a a reason, there was always an excuse to just go, you know, something it's something else, not me.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And what was your understanding of perimenopause? Were you haven't already opened with you working with a lot of females? Did you feel like you you would know when that time was coming for you? Did did other people tell you about weird symptoms? Like for me, I got body odor. I never ever wore deodorant because I never got body odor. It just never had it, and all of a sudden I started getting things like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

I was kind of still in denial until my partner, who has been my reason, like literally, I was meant to meet this girl for all you know, for what we do now, and also for just being there for me, and she has directed me really to where I am now in terms of getting the help and stuff and and then speaking very openly about it and you know just admitting things when you know she would have said Esther, some days I didn't know what I was coming into really, you know, and that hit me because I was like, I really hated the fact that I made someone feel like that, you know, coming in and you know, one day I'm nice and I'm happy and I'm still me and I'm Esther and I'm you know I'm a good laugh, and then there was other days it was like I just fucking wanted to kill everybody around me and you know, nitpicking into things and and I knew when I reflected on it and I went, I am this horrible person, and no one's gonna want to be around me anymore. You know, I just felt like I was constantly in bitch mode all the time. And I actually remember after, like about three weeks, four weeks after the patch had started to do its work, I actually texted her and I messaged her and I said, I just want to say I'm really sorry because I am like looking back, it's like looking through, you know, I under and looking in and going, I done this, and I was you know being silly over this and cracking over this, and but we were seeing silly things like something's out of place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

But something was out of place, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Your hormones me and I and I wasn't addressing that. I was just worried about everything else but me. And this has made me really realise.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

So thank you obviously for sharing all of this, and you're here to try and inspire or help other educate other women not to suffer unnecessarily and not to try and women like yourself through it, you know, women like you as well, for reaching out to people like me who are giving us a voice and who are letting us be heard that you know if I don't if one person listens to this and goes, That's me, and you know So I know what they'll want to know. What other symptoms apart from another major one will be lethargy, lack of energy, feeling a bit flat, it might not be feeling low all the time, it might not even be feeling irritable. It's it's kind of like a yo-yo um effect because perimenopause, and I'll go back to when I was talking about the blood test. So sometimes your GPU might say to you, Um, we'll do a blood test and then we'll see. That is really not an indicator of if someone's in perimenopause, if they have all the other symptoms and around that age, because it's going up and down the levels, yeah, and it's the fluctuation that is that is affecting. Yeah, I mean, you'd need to be testing somebody every day of a cycle to find out those fluctuations.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Things like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

So, like what other symptoms?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

It was really weird and random things like um itchy ears.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

So bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I didn't get itchy ears, but I would be like clawing my skin.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah. Um the tiredness, let's be honest. I mean, I am not a daytime napper. I have never I have a friend and she loves to weed daytime nothing. I'm like, how do you how do you nap during the day? Oh no problem. And I would be like, no, I would be cloned, I'd be scaling the walls. Daytime nothing would have become like every every day. Like, I mean, even if we are or whatever, and just yeah, and then as well, you know, putting my keys into the fridge, stupid thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

I actually did do that. I have done that, I I did do that. Although I believe that was my testosterone was actually playing a role in that. So my testosterone when I got it checked was not point, and it's if it's low, it's consistently low, so it's a true reading. Um, and it was like not point not one or something like that. Really, really low.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

And I remember driving home and just thinking, because obviously I had a new baby, so like you, I was blaming it on other areas in my life. And I thought, but I never had this tiredness, maybe it's just because I'm older. Yes. It was because I was older, it was because my hormones were out of whack. And so I remember um feeling like I could put matchsticks in my eyes driving home one time. I was that tired and it was that flat um with my energy, and actually lifting the baby up, I felt like I wasn't strong. And I and I kept saying I'm gonna have to start working out, I would have to start working out because I I wasn't I didn't feel strong. That's the effect that testosterone low testosterone can have on our mood, so like a flat mood as opposed to the dip before your period, so consistently flat exhaustion or just like no energy, tired and not feeling as strong, and then also libido, but it's not just for libido, yeah. If all these other factors are implicable, that's gonna have a knock-on effect on your libido anyway. Yeah, so I went privately because unfortunately, you can't get tested for low testosterone on the NHS. Well, you can, there's one indication, but men can. So it's a condition called hypogonadism. And if a man's coming with these symptoms, GP will say, Let's check your testosterone. Oh, it's low, here's a job. We'll check in through any. We're fighting, we're fighting and a woman can only get her testosterone checked when she is in menopause, so no more periods for 12 months or more, and she's on HRT, and that's not helping with her libido. So we can only get testosterone if we have a low libido and we've already suffered for seven to ten years in perimenopause. Shocking, isn't it? It's menopause. And you know what? Even at that, because I would tell my patients, I'd give them the information, tell them where to look it up, the nice guidelines, put in HRT testosterone so that they're informed when they go to their GP. And I've had so many of them come back to me and send to me, Yeah, but the TB says, Yeah, we don't do that. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

It's so this is the I think, yeah. Um maybe talk us through, you know, any women here wanting to get a bit more information about how did they get HRT? What was your journey like?

unknown 18:53

Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Did you have a good doctor?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

I did. Like all the difference. I really did. Um Do you know? I think the turning point came for me was you know, a few a few um events or nights out, um, I'd noticed just even like two two drinks, two glasses, something, and I was gone. And um and I mean blacked out, like I wouldn't have wouldn't have remembered. I would have been I would have been in the room one minute and then the next morning I would have woke up the next morning, not knowing how I got home. On two drinks. On a c on not a lot of drink, not a lot of drink. And the last one there really scared me to the point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I am just, you know, not feeling me at all as it is, and this is just the th the decider for me that I need to bring the doctor. And I rung that Friday, I was, you know, call back, call back. So I rung that Friday and got a lovely um it was a locum and female doctor, and I just said, Look, I I need help, and I am on my knees and explained everything. Um said about my job that I'm pretty physical, um, pretty active. I watch what I ate. You know, every week I was standing on the scales was panging up. Um Yeah, that's another symptom. Yeah. Weight gain. Weight gain. No matter what you're doing. No matter what you're doing. Um hunger as well, hungrier, you know. Obviously, you know, got that hormones elevated too, so hungrier with that too, and just um just feeling pretty shit about myself too. So I explained everything in regards to that. Um one of the really funny things as well, one of the real weird symptoms of which I didn't realise it was a um no like weird smells, like burning. Really? So the guards were eating breakfast. One day I went down to reception, um, and there was one late in a yeog and my um partner Glacia, she was eating eggs, and I thought I can smell, I can smell burning, like there's a wires or something burning though, like and apparently that is a symptom. Do you know what? I thought I knew most of them, but I haven't heard that one. Do you know there's 150 symptoms?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

There is, and there's they're finding more.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

So the j the running joke is now, whenever we're saying anything, what trauma may, I'm like, what it's like, don't tell me menopause. Yeah, I'm not sure. Because it's it's like gonna go the fuck up, here we are again. But say as well, just my immune system would have been quite low too, so I wouldn't really be one to be getting sick all the time or but it was picking up wee things, you know, like we farrel here or you know, run down or covet. I think I've had covet five times, four times. Do you know? So we're we're you know, picking up anything that was coming at me, it was kind of like it was it was going, it was just immunity wasn't really there as well. Yeah, so you weren't optimal.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

No, you weren't feeling your optimal self that you would have said a few years beforehand. No, definitely. And so you'd what did your GP then say to you?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

She was lovely. She says, Look, you know, come down, no blood tests. We're didn't give me any blood tests. She says, if your blood pressure's fine, she says, Um, I will leave a prescription for you and we'll start you there and then. And that that happened literally five days later. And as soon as she said that on the phone, I felt like I had literally lifted uh weight off my shoulder because I felt that it was being listened to and that here we are, step one. And there was hope that you didn't have to be like this for the rest of your life. And I decided that that day was my day one. I was like this. I felt like it was like an alcoholic. Or something the way I was trying to channel this, but it was like, you know what? No, this is the I think we just need to be really open about it and go, you know what, it is it is a step and it is something that we need to just build on and go, Well, do you know what it is day one, it is reset, get up, get on with it, and just do what you need to do to make you feel better. And you know, I had a friend as well who had you know problem, told her she's 40, she's 45 just before me, but they told her to wait till she was 45. And I've got on that phone. Like we're talking June, you know, what May June. They told her to wait till and I went, What's gonna change? Are you serious? I am serious, not nothing serious.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

So I was 44 when I went, and my GP said to me, We'll do a blood test. I'd had a bit of a different experience. It was it was good in one hand, but on the other hand, I was very disappointed at the end and I ended up going private. So the first um time I went, I'd said, you know, I've been feeling low, it's the second time. Um and uh I'd had night sweats, so I actually I go to bed with fluffy socks on. I have we have an electric blanket and it's dual um controls, so his can be off and mine's up really high. Yes, right. In fact, we have this joke where I met my hubby in the summer, it wasn't around July time, and he remembered thinking I was a crazy lady because I had my Dyson heater on. So I love the heat, right? And then I was having to sleep naked basically because I was drenched so much um the sheets and having to go up in the middle of night and put a towel down onto the sheets because you're not gonna get up and change your sheet, it's just gonna get damp again, and it was even worse because the the quilt was damp as well, and you haven't put that over you.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

But I would have see that as well. I would have got I wouldn't get that all the time, but I would have got that around the time where it was due.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. Or if it was so when you were dipping really low, this yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

But I would have been just that to be done into my head. Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

No, and here we were. And and and and there I was, but I was still cold at the same time. So it wasn't all I ever thought was hot flashes. Yeah, you think, oh, I don't get any hot flashes, I don't know, I haven't got any. It was it's night sweats more in perimenopause and the hot flashes towards the end of perimenopause or in menopause. Um, and just to be clear, perimenopause for anyone who's maybe you know not feeling it or just wants the education of what to look out for. Perimenopause is seven to ten years, roughly, before menopause, and menopause is considered when we've stopped having periods for twelve months or more. And that's we actually don't get a break, do we?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

We don't. We actually don't get a break.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

You know, it's it's all to do with um funding. There's just no money that goes into women fertile years, yeah, there is, but post fertile years there's there's very little funding.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Schools should start to tap into this, I think, as well, definitely. You know, even you know, secondary schools and stuff, they should start uh they should really educate.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

We should just be taught a science. I totally agree. It's a it's it we are in this stage, hopefully, if we get to live long enough longer than we are in any other. And then let's go on.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

And also it's allowing people to have an understanding as well. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Well, this is the thing as well. You you know, I have uh you had a partner you who's recently sub has been supporting you and helped you. Um I have a husband who, when I first started going down this rabbit hole finding out about it and finding out that it increases your risk of we're at higher increased risk of Alzheimer's and and dementia if we don't take HRT. We are at increased risk of cardiovascular disease, autoimmune disease, because estrogen is a massive anti-inflammatory, and when it's going down, our inflammation is going up through the roof, which is also why we get the fat around, it's not the fat that we can lose through dieting and exercise, it's visceral fat, it's around your organs, it's not good. Cholesterol goes up because cholesterol is linked to trying to increase estrogen levels, and the body realizes that estrogen is going down, so we increase our cholesterol. Yeah. So, you know, we're at risk of all these other um health conditions, debilitating health conditions, life-altering um health conditions that can be prevented if we start HRT at the seven to ten years before menopause. Evidence has shown it can reduce your risk of cardiovascular disease by 60%.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

That's a lot, you know. Like I said, I do feel that I've been lucky enough. Um, albeit, you know, my head hasn't been probably in the best place in the last sort of couple of years. But due to my job, I feel it's it's definitely helped me where I am today. But there's people out there like yourself, if you're not sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

And like, yeah, I want to know I'm good on about you know physical health effects. Um and also just to mention another really important one is estrogen's actually licensed for the treatment of osteoporosis.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

The amount of women with osteoporosis and that could be prevented. And just to go on to a monetary issue there, it makes no fucking sense that the NHS won't put money into educating our doctors better, doing the well-woman checks, talking about perimenopause, educating women, because not everyone has those relationships, not everyone listens to a podcast, not everyone um is going to have other people who are gonna be open and honest with them. Well, but it's not a lot of people. GP should be educating women.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Like I said, my mummy wouldn't have spoken about it when we were younger. You just weren't, you know, you just got on with that. So if it's not happening around the table, then we need to rely on the services out there, like schools and stuff like that and other things to our but if they did, women would be on HRT who are safe to have it.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

It's not an expensive drug, it's not because the NHS don't want to prescribe it because and this is why there's no funding into it as well, is because anything that's bioidentical, so they can make money off the pill because it's synthetic hormones, um, but bioidentical hormones, and they're the hormones that we're using now, okay, in HRT. Yeah. Um the the big pharma can't make money off it because they can't patent it. Oh. They can't patent anything that is naturally occurring in our body. Right, yes. So there's so they won't fund the research, which is where most of the funding comes for research to happen. And but this is the point I don't get. The NHGS should be doing these well-woman checks, educating women, as you say, also as early as in you know, education in schools, so that women are prepared and then convincing this to prevent them from having, you know, Alzheimer's, hopefully dementia, cardiovascular disease, um, osteoporosis, autoimmune disease, and then also we're at risk of becoming insulin dependent, so type two back diabetic. Um, think about the amount of medications. How we wouldn't be going to the GP, we wouldn't be having to be on cholesterol medication, we wouldn't have to be on heart medication, we'd have to be on medication for osteoporosis. Yeah, we wouldn't have so many women in with hip fractures.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

You know, we wouldn't have um I think there was studies showing that the those who were on testosterone as well, because we need testosterone too. It's not just estrogen and progesterone.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

No, we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

And we and it's it's a shame that we can't get that without going privately, and hopefully that'll change soon. But testosterone, the women who were on testosterone also showed a 50% reduction rate in hip fractures in menopause age. And let's without trying to scare anyone, hip fractures. I think the statistics are pretty high that if you don't get surgery with one within one year, it's something like don't quote me on this, but 70% will die within one year.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

That's high.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

You know, we could save the NHS a lot of money. The NHS could save themselves a lot of money by providing appropriate um training to GPs and not GPs who are sticking, like you said, wait until you turn 45. Like that is absolutely ridiculous. A lot of my other patients will come back to me saying that they said to their GP, and the GP went, Oh yeah, everyone's jumping on this trend. Like that's literally medical gaslighting trend. So, like, even when you educate, like I spend a lot of time in my consultations with my patients, and I I I don't know, I feel sorry for them because when they're left, they're like, they're armed with information. Yeah, because they're sitting telling me, like, you're you're the main one. Because even with all these health benefits, even if we can protect all those, what good is that if you don't have your mental health?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Well, there's one of my weeklands actually, whenever the the I put the first post out about the, you know, and myself and the menopause and stuff, primenopause, um, and she came to me and she says, Esther, that that I read that, and she says, I read it with tears in my eyes, because that sounded everything you'd said exactly like me. And her doctor, she is now on her second cycle of different antidepressants. She's 44, so she's a year younger than me, and she says, Isn't that depressed? And I went, No, you're not depressed. I said, just keep going, keep fighting, keep ringing. Why?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Right, so again, I know I keep going on about studies, but I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So there's more money with like two different sets of anti-press-do you know what I mean? And the girl's not depressed.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

There was a big study done there in the last few years of women who commenced uh there were two findings. So the women who had convinced, like you're um the the person who'd reached out to you, an SSRI or an antidepressant at what would have been considered maybe perimenopause stage, once they were started on HRT, so it was a massive number. It was something like about 80 or 90 percent were able to come off it because that wasn't the problem, the problem was hormones. Yes. And those who did have maybe some underlying um mental health issue and were already on some sort of medication, their doses had been increased or had other um mental health medications given, they were able to either reduce almost all of them were able to reduce their dose. Some of them were actually able to come off them who were on them even before.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Isn't it mad? Yeah. There's a doctor called Dr. Louise Newsom who's doing massive studies into this, and there was one um patient who'd actually been admitted for shock therapy.

unknown 31:41

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

And eventually, yeah. Um, shock therapy, and she was pouring boiling water over herself. She was severe, like went into like episodes of psychosis, but because she had mental health issues before, that's all they thought it was. Eventually, they started on HRT. She was better than she ever was before. It was a hormonal issue. I mean, that's so we are so vulnerable and we're thinking it's us, just get up, just get on with it. Yeah, pull your finger out of your ass.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

It won't be you, you're too young, or you've you know, again, you know, just boxing it off the certain age of of of women.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

No, we have to go into symptoms, we have to treat people as in as individuals. Absolutely, and the problem is we've got some great doctors and we've got some great doctors but still don't know enough.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

And then we have some doctors who genuinely it's a sad thing to say, but they don't seem to care. I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

But that it that is based on conversations with my patients, and then there's other things I had a patient come to me and say to me, Oh no, I'm waiting on that. Uh, I'm getting referred to the HRT clinic, and I said, Oh, can can I ask why? And she says, Oh, because I have a history of clot. There is zero percent risk of clot with transdermal HRT, so that's the one that we put on as a patch, a gel, a cream, or a spray. Zero. That has been proven. We know this. Every GP, you don't need to be referred to an HRT clinic for that. Your GP should know that. The pill, the synthetic version, there's a very small risk because it's the way it has to be metabolized and it has to go through first past metabolism. So there's a small increase, and even at that, it's small, but there is zero risk. That makes me so fucking mad. Yeah, like that's not okay. You should know that. I know, and it's one thing for a GP to say no to giving you HRT because of a valid reason. But it's not okay to say I won't treat you because I don't know enough. No, refer to it. Or find out more.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Very angry, very angry about this. The amount of women that come in and say that to me, but then I tell them what to say and go to a different doctor and and they and they usually get sorted. Another thing I think it's good to mention is that a lot of people think that if they have a member in the family's history of cancer that they can't have it. Yes, I've heard that a lot actually. That's not true. As well, it's not true. So I think it's really important that women, when we're at at this at this point, is to inform themselves. Yeah. Because no one's gonna do it for them.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

It's it's actually just starting to speak about it, talking about it. Um and I love that women are starting to do that. They really are, and you know, knowing that just there's when you get the help, it's not changing you, it's just making you feel back to you. Do you know you're not gonna all of a sudden just be, you know, in the Blue Rinse Brigade because you've got a patch on or you're, you know, clarified as going through perimenopause. It's not it's just it's just lifting that weight.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

What do you think would also be maybe some potential blockers for a woman to decide to maybe have that conversation with her GP and start HRT? They're afraid because years ago, 25 years ago, there was a study that made everyone afraid saying it would cause breast cancer. You know, and that was those findings were they were mis um they were misinterpreted. Yeah. And actually what they found is that it actually reduces your risk. Isn't that mad? For nearly a quarter of a century because the media got it wrong, women have suffered.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

And I think just as you said as well, there is just there is just some doctors out there that don't really want to don't want, you know, they don't want to listen. They don't want to listen to you. And people now, maybe just the way everything is, situations are, is like, well, what's the point? You know, it's maybe going to take you three weeks to get through to the doctor, and then you know, that is a big thing as well. And you're like, why bother? Or it's just it's it's effort now, and again, when you're not putting that effort into yourself, then you're last in the pecking order, so you're gonna leave it, and then before you know another year's past, that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

I want to ask, because you're the person to ask for this, okay, because we know that you need to be having so let's go into other other tips, it's not just all HRT, okay. So when we think of the musculoskeletal system, muscle, skeleton, your muscles and your bone, they're actually one system, yeah. And your bone mass, um, if we are losing bone mass, due to losing estrogen, yeah, that's when we're at risk of having osteoporosis and hip factors when we're older, okay? If we want to stay out of a nursing home, we need to be maintaining that bone mass, which is obviously estrogen will play its role with your HRT, but also your bone mass is reliant on your muscle mass.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

And especially with everyone taking a Zempic, Uyghur, Mangiro, and no judgment because it is life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But if you're not maintaining that muscle mass, you're gonna lose your bone mass. And if you don't take enough protein in a day, you're gonna lose about 10 to 15% of your muscle mass permanently. You'll not get it back no matter how much you work.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Muscle is your longevity, muscle is your anti-aging muscle. It is the foundation of how you're gonna look, how you're gonna age, how you're gonna move. So to lose that, you know, it's it's detrimental that we do everything we can to keep it and to preserve it in the right manner, you know. So I and that's another reason why obviously, you know, for me, HRT with doom that I do will do nothing but enhance everything that I do as well because I'll not be as sore, you know, I'll not be as tired. I'll be able to, you know, movements better, movement patterns will be better as well. But do you face different like sore joints? Yes, all the time. I was coming out with a different ailment nearly every week, you know. Um it's mad, it's just it's almost like it happens over. It's weird. It's so, yeah, tennis elbow, and I do have a bit of an issue with my hips. So I would have had um around the time of being due um sick arthritis um on the left side, it would have then elevated, I would have been limping quite a lot. To the point then when I actually started to walk, it was kind of like a limp anyway, because people were going, you hip you sore today? No, it just generalised because it was happening so often. Do you know it was constantly just so your information was just going through you? Information markers were through the roof. Um and the first thing I said and noticed is was when once I'd started this within the first sort of three weeks, it was not the the pain wasn't there as much as what it was before. Like I would have been waking up in the middle of the night as well, you know, with lying and and feeling that just that burning like bone on bone on bone sensation, you know, whenever do you know Yeah. And it's it's definitely and who knew only needed was a patch.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

This is the thing when you make that big, you know, decision to kind of go down this route and prioritise yourself and your health and how you're feeling about yourself, it's just a patch, yeah. Or a gel or a cream or a spray, there's different ones. It's actually not that big a day.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

It's not now. I will be honest. So we recently had a photo shoot just last week with our with our um girls that had booked onto our photo shoot programme, and um you could probably probably appreciate that as well. So this was the day we were obviously I I'd felt the worst I'd ever felt for. Um I'd you know, been it was the biggest for any of the photo shoots had ever been in terms of weight, gain, bloat. Um I would never have voiced that or let any of the girls know that because I realised that you know my worst is probably some of their best, and I would never have made anyone feel that way. But um came to Photo Shoot Day and I had worn um like just power baggy sort of black bottoms right up until the photograph was being shot. I took them off and I didn't want anyone to see me. And we were on M1 group photographs so we weren't really the focal, it was it was everybody, so there was plenty of faces to look at rather than us just being on our own. Um, and he would call, um the photographer would call us over, you know, to have a look at the photos, and I remember running up like with my hands kind of like just behind me, so no one would be looking, because obviously the guards were behind us and running up, you know, because I just felt that conscious about myself and about how I'd looked. And the day that we'd got the photos done was the Sunday, and that's my change patch day. So, you know, when you change your patch towards the end of the week, what it's like because all the fibres gather around it, so it looks stinking at the end of the week. So I had this disgusting wee patch, and I was like, right, I'm just gonna take it off today. I'm not gonna wear it today. Because that was the first it felt a wee bit, you know, because there was a lot of girls there that were But I suppose that's a very unique situation.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah. How many women are put in that situation to think about it?

SPEAKER_00 40:23

I think it just hit me that day because it was like, you know, everyone was away getting their spray tans, everyone was looking kind of flawless, and you know, the photo could photo shoot and then and it was the first that sort of went, I didn't want to wear that today.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Oh. You know, and it was then it didn't fit in with your life.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, I just felt that day. It was like and it was all grubby because it's the day, you know, just like all so I thought, no, I'm not gonna wear it today.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Say I use the cream. Yeah, up every morning and I put my testosterone in one thigh and then my estrogen in the other, or I'll rotate, you know, kind of can be your arm as long as it's not around the breast area.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

The lovely thing about the girl the doctor that it had spoken to that day, she'd said to me, What have you heard about? What have you heard? Like, what have you, you know, what have you heard about what works and stuff? And I'd said, Well, I've heard about the patches and heard about the gel and stuff, and you know, so she didn't just go to me, right, we're gonna do this. She said to me, you know, what what do you think? What are you what are you thinking of, or what have you came across, or whatever? And so, you know, that was nice because it was almost like you're involved. My invalid mattered a bit because it was about me, so I thought that was nice too, and I just thought, well, just go people to tell me about the patches and stuff. And I had a couple of clients who are with me who are nurses and stuff, I was picking their brains before went to them and stuff, and I thought, no, this sounds this sounds to be the thing for me, and I've had absolutely no issues with that.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I think for me, the decision the reason I went for the cream was because I've heard that well, not I heard that, but I know that the glue itself, the hormone is in. And for some people, if they don't have good contact, then it's a it's it's not quite as um the and the absorption as well isn't as good. And so you might not be getting the best from it. Yeah. Um although lots of my patients are on the patch and they absolutely swear by it and they love it, and they couldn't be bothered getting up and doing the cream every cream every morning. And sometimes I've been running late and I'm like, I'm not gonna have enough time for this, you know, to so and then I think about maybe switching to the patch, but I think it's just whatever works for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

It is, and I remember even when I we went on holiday for um I think I've been on them two weeks, and of course I didn't realise that you burn. And I mean I fucking burnt. Like I What do you mean? Oh well, let's just say like I was like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, like my whole up hair all swole out, um, and it was a reaction to the patch because you know, like when you're pregnant, you're you you decided the hormone do not some bathe, it's just yeah. Really?

unknown 42:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

I that's like I thought I knew a lot, and I've not heard that. That's interesting. So um yeah, I again it was just like so naive to this year, you know, wasn't really that warm. People were it was just a nice, you know, nice sunny days.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

People had jumpers on and things, but I suppose estrogen has a vital role in skin, which is why again, when we're looking in the mirror, I I this was before I knew that I was in perimenopause or really knew what I knew about perimenopause. And I would have patients have been, you know, practicing aesthetics for 17 years, maybe 15, 16 years at the time I realized this. And women were coming in, and I've been treating some of these women for over 10 years, and they weren't really looking that much different because they've been having treatments with me and trying to stay on top of it. But yes, you know, the hormones when they should go down, our skin, the collagen's starting to drop massively, and we're getting looking a bit dull if we're not having treatments to help with it. And I came to this conclusion that depending on where your hormones are at, what you see, what you see in the mirror is not what everyone else sees. I your brain is tricking you, and I started saying to my patients, your brain is literally tricking you. I think it's your hormones because when you're looking in the mirror, what you're seeing, it's not what I. Saying it's not what everyone else is saying.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

I couldn't look at myself. Like I genuinely could not look at myself. I was so we have a um a member who comes into our gym and she um she's an aesthetic um nurse as well. And every time I seen her, I'd be like, What do I need to do? What do I need to get done? I just I looked in that mirror and I would have been like fucking where I'm getting like thrown three years older, three years on me every day here. I am like dog the bounty hunter. I am a mess. Like I just felt horrible. I was It's smart, isn't it? It's just and I mean you know when you open your front camera and your phone, yeah, and I'm like you feel face raped. I said that surely that's that's not me. I'm not that girl, you know. Honestly, it was and I wished I had maybe an arm at like three metres long so I could have the camera away from me. It was just I picked holes in everything. And cancelling things because I just didn't feel good about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

No. Where are you at with that now?

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Well, I'm not saying I'm in love with myself, but I feel a bit better. I'm like, right, okay, Esther, you know, come on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Like I'm not lying, I don't well, most people know me, I call a spade a spade, I get in trouble for it quite a lot. But I genuinely thought you were going to say about 39.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

I love you.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Well, that's based on my facial assessment too. Like, I'm I'm pretty good at what I do, and like you've got youthful volume in your face. You don't, you don't have you know, not then saying that every 45-year-old doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

But I would have I would have looked and went, Oh, see, I would have always been like um down the rabbit hole, you know, and no way the the videos come up now on on Facebook a lot of like procedures away and stuff, and I would have went, I I need that, and that looks really good. And sent they would have sent links to friends. What do you think of this? And honestly, like I would have been and you know what?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

It's not great to make those decisions based on you not being have good a proper cognitive.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

I don't think if you're not happy with something, do it, change it, fix it.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Because you know, but when you're in a good place, like I just had my eyes done there, had upper and lower blephyroplasty, had a forehead reduction, everyone said it in the middle, but my before and after afters are incredible. But I made that decision when I was in a good place.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yes, you know, you wanted to enhance how you look because you know it's it's it's because I because I I think I'm I inform myself, I'm I'm well able to make the do the research and I'm not afraid of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

A lot of people are afraid of it. Yeah um, but as I say, a lot of women are making decisions when they're not in a good place. You know, I will have had some women coming and saying, I need to glow up, you know, X, Y, and Z, and I go, What age are you? We'll have our chat. And this can be patients who've no maybe not been with me, you know, particularly long time, and I can see this woman's struggling and the signs and symptoms are pointing to perimenopause and her age and not getting maybe and this is another thing, massive thing. It was the same when I found out I went down the rabbit hole, said to Hubby, look at this, oh hubby, look at this, oh hubby, would he watch this? Oh hubby, he went on that journey with me, and that's because I not made him he wanted to, you know, he it wasn't like he was saying go away. But women aren't doing that, they're trying to do it on the on their own, they're not involving their partners, yeah. And so, like, how can a partner, and I'm not saying all partners are supportive, but how can even the best of them support you if you're not asking them for help, if you're not telling them what's happening to you?

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

They're just you're saying you wouldn't hold your husband's hand or your partner's hand or your wife's hand, yeah. If you know she told you or he told you they were having these issues and it was affecting them, but of course you're gonna support them. So why are you not asking for it? I know, I know. My hubby knows more about perimenopause than most women, most perimenopausal women.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Well, when I said the man, he was like, I will he goes, I have noticed he says, I noticed like you know, it's made me a bit touchy the last sort of while or I just very general about mindful about what he was saying. He uh yeah, I mean I think just I I think another thing is women, it's like you know what they won't they won't get it. No, they don't get it.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

But that's not true. No, that's not true. If you sit down and you say, right, okay, I've just found out about this whole other stage that I have to go through life after becoming fertile, getting pre you know, um getting periods so that I can, you know, have kids if that's what you want to do. Um actually there's this other stage, and no one told us about it, and it's actually really it's really shocked me. It makes a lot of sense now, and everything's gonna be okay, I hope. Again, I feel bad talking about this and not talking about women who maybe aren't candidates for HRT, but for women who are, have that conversation, sit down, tell them all that I've said, say listen, if I don't the HRTs, these fluctuating hormones are gonna last seven to ten years, and this is how it can affect me. Now, hopefully, I'm gonna get support with HRT. Hopefully it'll work for me, it's not guaranteed. But I'm gonna need a lot of understanding, a lot of support. Now, that's not an excuse to abuse it. No, I think but I think that conversation needs to be had more and more.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

I think it really does because yes, we're we're we're talking about hormone reduction here, but we're also really, really talking about mental health and what it does to mental health.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Massively.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

And we need to remember that because it's not just about the hormone, it's actually about how we feel about ourselves, which is it's detrimental to how we function every day. Do you know what?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

I actually was so lucky growing up. I didn't get period pain.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

No, I was I was fine as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

I didn't get like mood mood swings, and you know when people would always say, Oh, you know, or someone would be rude or whatever, and they'd say, Oh, my period, or they'd be irritable. I used to like go roll my eyes and go dramatic. Now I'm ashamed actually to say that now. Obviously, I couldn't relate because I wasn't going through it. Yeah. But now I see and I'm educated and I've experienced just how important hormones are for mood. Yeah, oh yeah. It's it's crazy. And then we have like conditions like PMDD. You know, that's women who get PMS really, really bad. Like they can be suicidal for a couple of years. Yeah, I have a clant and it's all because they're oversensitive. It's not that they've got too much or too little of a hormone, it's because they're super sensitive to the fluctuations, even if it's only like a minor one.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

So like we really need to be mindful. And again, like a man comes in and he says he's got low energy and he's got low, low mood, low libido, straight testing it's checking his testosterone. Why is that not the same for women?

SPEAKER_00 50:08

I know. I know. I mean, it really should be, it should be a standard, it should be, do you know, it shouldn't even be whenever they're going to get their contraceptive or their pill that there should even be a leaflet given or something, just some kind of outreach, just something to tap into it and go, oh yeah, I've heard of that, oh I've seen that. Not like a a sit-down talk with somebody who goes, right, let's talk about this. It should start to be getting more Do you know what would be actually really good?

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Well, this is just how to re light bulb moment. Do you know when you go to the GP surgeries and you see um the notice boards and it's say obviously in a different extreme, but like kind of domestic violence, or you know, have you called such and you know, how about like a a um a a poster up to say, you know, are you between the age of such and such? Have you noticed you're being real irritable?

SPEAKER_00 50:54

How you market it. If it's done in a way where it's actually targeting younger people as well, so it's not this fuddy-duddy relief that you're gonna get if it's done in a way where it's like okay. And it's open. Yeah. Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Like the thing is, not every man is going to have hypogonarism, yeah, which is the low testosterone. And I'm not saying they don't have their own kind of age-related um issues. But every woman is going to go through perimenopause and menopausa. Every single woman from the age of potentially early 30s, mid-30s, but generally from 40 onwards, every woman, and what we're living to 70, 80.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Well, longer. One of my clients, whenever I was speaking to her, wasn't it's a long time to not look after women.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

It is.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

She is um she's a nurse as well, and whenever we were chatting, she was like, How are you feeling? Going through everything with her and just telling her everything, and she's and I says, you know, she's younger than me, and I says, You just almost feel like you're old now because you're doing this, whatever she says, no. She says, They were doing this case study for um an assignment in work, and one of the girls was 22. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

I've heard that quite a few times. One of my wee patients, I was I was actually um at a morning clinic this morning, and I told her, you know, I was doing this podcast, and she goes, I can't wait. She says, Could you talk about the first symptoms? Could you talk about it? She goes, I'm 31 and I know that I'm in it. Now, granted, she had some some other kind of gynecological issues, so she's a bit more aware, but 31.

unknown 52:13

Yeah no.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

You know, you think we're going crazy. Like I said, we're having a laugh about putting the keys into the fridge and putting the the milk into the electric box, but this is I was forgetting patients' names having treatment for 15 years. I was just about to say that because that's but it's very embarrassing, and it's actually, you know, it's like, oh, here she goes again. But I remember walking over to a girl to tell her to do something, she was doing something wrong, and I know this girl, and my um daughter is friends with her daughter, so I know this person, and I went to tell her to stop, you know. Uh and I walked towards her and I was like, I had to say to her for me, I've just forgot your name, and we all burst out laughing, and yes, I laughed too, but I was like, What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Like I genuinely completely I would be mid-conversation and then just go, What was I talking about? Or it's quite scary.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

It's yeah, or or driving somewhere and then like realizing you've drove past where you need to be all the time, or or walking into Tesco's and being like you know, you've just you you you've got the one thing on your list that you're working in for and everything else is just random shit.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

It is, but it's it's it's it's funny, but it's also scary, like it is how that can have that m that knock on effect on you being if people are talking about this and and raising all the you know, it's it's alright to go, do you know that's what they're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 53:23

This is you know, it's it's just like normalizing that.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, and like to be feel empowered.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Don't because for me, I was frightened when I said, like, God, I'm in perimenopause. I felt like the rug had been pulled from underneath my feet. I am now old. Yeah, I thought it was a little bit more than a lot of people. No fucking not. I feel amazing now, like honestly. And do you know what? I probably was in perimenopause longer before, you know, long before I started really noticing these symptoms because I feel like I am better now than I even was a few years beforehand. Not that I would have noticed at the time.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

No, you're you're recognising that and you're actually you're aware of it now, oras before, you know, you would you don't really you'd probably it was you know, you were facing that as such, you were recognising it, but you weren't actually taking control of it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 54:05

And not to for to play it down, you know, it definitely need to have an assessment with an appropriate clinician before starting and have an old education, it is a medication. But you don't think twice about giving a 16-year-old girl the pill.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

So, do you know what I mean? And you didn't think twice about taking the pill.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

So why are we doubting? Why are GPs doubting prescribing and and and giving this life-saving medication to women? Yeah, not just physically, mentally, changing lives, saving saving marriages. Do you know how many women actually the divorce rates is obviously you could say it's because the movie argue arguably they've been together that long, but no, it's not. It's because the women are not without the right support, hormonal support and network support, they're not coping. The first thing to go is resilience.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

You you really don't feel like you can cope with things. No, it is gonna it really is, and and then that then you know the the partners are not understanding. If it's obviously men, they're not understanding what's going on. Yeah, and so they're just thinking, you know, the woman's gonna have for one she's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

But really, yeah, I I think it's just one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

It's it really, really, really should be addressed and it should be and accepted and talked about as in like you know, okay, you you're you're in your fertile years now, okay. I'm not in my fertile years now. Happy days, don't need to worry about um you don't have any more kids. My life's it's a time I always like to call it. You know, it's called the thing is men ops. Yes. Are you fucking kidding me? I know men opuse. Sorry, not sorry, but I think it should be called woman pause. Yeah, a time in a woman's life when she's been caring for children potentially or other family, siblings, whatever. And we're gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah, it's like pause, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

So a time in a woman's life where she should pause. Yeah, women and take time think about herself. Definitely is she the priority in her life? Do you know what I mean? Because when you do, when you do do that, life is sweeter.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Yeah, oh yeah. And let's be honest, us as women, you don't really put yourself first, do you? You know, you're you're kind of like you're you're everything else before you're yeah you know, you're your oh I'm your wild.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

I was drilled into that if the kids were in nursery um in my previous kind of relationship, if they were in nursery as soon as I finished work, I had to pick them up. Like it couldn't have been, you know, oh finished early, kind of maybe I'll go and get my nails stuff. I never would have done that. I know that's probably maybe an extreme, but that was me. Whereas now, you know, if I finished early, me and her we'll go for by go for like a late lunch or something, and then we'll pick the V Man up. Definitely. Do you know simple things I wouldn't have done before that I'm doing now?

SPEAKER_00 56:39

And um You always feel guilty, don't you? When you're, you know, it's like, no, I better go, or I can't have that extra hour because you know you've finished, so that's what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

And then you need to go and I really fought with making the decision to go and get my cosmetic surgery because I went to Turkey for it. And that's another story, but it was through a lot of research, and I wanted this surgeon, and I hated how I looked. I was really hating it. And it was not to do with where the hormones were having their play, it was just me looking in the mirror, seeing this aged woman working in the line that I do, not afraid of cosmetic surgery. And I was like, What's stopping me? It's because I wouldn't leave my family to go and do it. I thought it was selfish, and then my husband turned around and said to me, I really don't get this guilt thing. What is this guilt thing that mum's going about? I don't feel bad when I leave Jonah, or say he was on away and a stag do, or he's like, I love my son, but I don't feel guilty if I'm doing something for myself, if he's been looked after. And I went, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna go, and I'm I'm I'm probably well gonna feel a bit guilty, but I'm not gonna let it be all consuming or stop me doing this. Yeah, and yeah, so like I always say your 40s are your best years, they'll probably get even better.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

I feel better and I have felt better in my 40s than what I did in my 20s, you know. So um I'm embracing it. I really am.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Well listen, we could talk a lot longer, but um, I think we're gonna have to wrap this up.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Thank you so much, and hopefully we'll we will have helped a lot of women out there and um really do. Just really make them make the call, make the call, get in touch with your GP.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

And just you know what, if it needs to be three calls or four calls, please, please just keep keep fighting for yourself because when you do, it's worth it. So worth it. It really is. So thank you, Hanya. Thank you, Hanai. Cheers.