Tocqueville On Reflective Patriotism

Patriotism without thinking is brittle. Thinking without affection is cold. We bring those forces together through Tocqueville’s lens of reflective patriotism and ask how a nation can love itself honestly while arguing for better. With Dr. Paul Carrese, we unpack why Americans have long mixed pride with a rational test of consent, policy outcomes, and local responsibility—and why that mix is under strain from polarization and apathy.

We trace how enlightened self-interest led generations to serve on school boards, town councils, and citizen juries, not out of blind loyalty but because the common good protects personal good. From there, we explore the role of civic education—what students should know, what they should practice, and how the Educating for American Democracy report frames motivation as the missing link. Carrese shows how stories, primary sources, and real participation can turn abstract rights and responsibilities into lived habits that endure beyond a news cycle.

We also examine the moral foundations Tocqueville valued: a plural religious culture that nurtures duty, hope, and sacrifice without state control. That moral ballast, paired with open debate, can keep citizens engaged when the race for equality and comfort pulls them inward. We face the hard data on youth voting and declining attachment to democracy, then offer practical steps to rebuild engagement: local problem-solving, service tied to outcomes, and public spaces where disagreement signals care, not contempt.

If you believe America can be both loved and improved, this conversation is for you. Listen, share with a friend, and tell us how you practice reflective patriotism where you live. Subscribe, leave a review, and join us as we build a smarter, steadier civic culture together.

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Transcript

Framing Reflective Patriotism

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Welcome back to Civics in here. We are talking today again about Alexis Tokville. But we're talking about Alexis Titocville on something called reflective patriotism. And it's one of my favorite kind of words to talk about reflective patriotism. And with us, we have Dr. Paul Caree. So Dr. Caree in Democracy in America, Tocqueville writes that Americans have a unique kind of public-spiritedness or patriotism. And he states that we have something called reflective patriotism. What does he mean by this and why is that important?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Thank you very much, Liz. But immediately, let me just define this complicated phrase. The French term could be translated as considered patriotism or reflective patriotism. Another way is thinking it's a rational patriotism. So one issue we have with this in the 21st century is we think of patriotism as mostly emotion. Like we we just happen to be recording this after the Winter Olympics of 2026. And some Americans won some gold medals, this wonderful uh women's figure skater, the men's hockey team, some of this, right? And they're draped in the American.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

The women's hockey team.

Reason, Consent, And Argument

Applying Tocqueville To Civic Education

Polarization And Apathy

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Excuse me, I apologize. I knew I was going to forget, right? The women's hockey team, right? So so and they're draped in the American flag, and and there's there's it's emotional, right? Yes. And and Tocqueville says that's what patriotism means everywhere in the world in the 1830s. Patriotism means love of your country. It's a sentiment. And the Americans have that. They have an emotional commitment to and sentiment about America. America's a good thing. They're proud of it. He mentions as a foreigner: if you say anything critical about America and you're a foreigner, boy, do the Americans, let you hear it. They just do not like these foreigners telling them there's some problem, right? So there's this kind of pride. So, yes, the Americans have that which every other people have. You know, you go to France or Russia or any country in the world, and you'll have this kind of emotional view. But the Americans have this rational element as well, he says, that he finds nowhere else in the world. The Americans have a reflective patriotism, a considered patriotism. And what is that element to it? The Americans have a government based on ideas. And the principle of it, consent of the government, is that government is supposed to be good for me, for you, for us. And so there's always this rational argument. Is the government doing the good thing or the right thing? Is it working for me as an individual, for my family, for my friends, for my community, for everything? And an argument comes out of that. So the Americans have this, I think you could also say when he doesn't use this term literally, we have a discursive or argumentative kind of patriotism. And so why is this important? Well, one immediate issue I want to bring up, and of course you know about it, Liz, is that there's a national study published in 2021 called Educating for American Democracy. It was an attempt to bring scholars and educators from left to center to right, I'll say, different philosophical views about America and American citizenship education, history education. And in educating for American Democracy, I happen to be one of the seven lead co-authors of it, we decided to use this term from Tocqueville. And we cited Tocqueville, Reflective Patriotism. And we open the report, Educating for American Democracy, and we close it by invoking this idea. Because we were writing, it's still true five years later, we were writing in a time of polarization and angry polarization and division about America, but also facing the reality of kind of civic apathy. The report doesn't go into this. This is me editorializing, right? There are small, I would say, there's a small number of people who really care about American politics, and they are angry at each other. And they use even violent language toward each other. And our parties are very divided. Congress is very closely divided. Presidential elections are won on very narrow grounds, right? So that's a reality. But the other dimensional reality we often overlook is that there's a huge number of people in America who don't care. They are they it's civic apathy. Partly they're checked out because politics is angry and so divisive, and this polarization that sounds like, you know, craziness. I'm just gonna mind my own business and avoid that kind of anger and divisiveness. But there's also a kind of selfishness about it. You know, I've got uh I've got a job to worry about, or I'm looking for a job, or I've got problems in life, I've got to, you know, somebody else is gonna have to deal with this self-government thing. Okay. And we were trying to say in the Education for American Democracy study: America will not survive. The United States of America will survive unless we have patriotism of the right sort, so that everybody who's a citizen or an aspiring citizen really cares about America. And partly enough people to care about America so we can survive the angry polarization about American public policy, but enough people to care about America so that we could see ourselves as Americans generally first, before we get to any differences or disagreements, and see our whole constitutional order as everybody's. This is our common ground before we get to disagreements. So we opened and closed by saying we need this balanced kind of patriotism that Tocqueville talks about. A reflective patriotism. Yes, it's got the emotional part. America is a good thing. But it's got the reflective, considered discursive part, but let's argue about it. America is a good thing, and let's argue about it, and we've always done that. Everything in America has come out of argument and disagreement. The Declaration of Independence comes out of that. The Constitution comes out of that, the Bill of Rights comes out of that, and it goes on and on and on. So this insight from Tocqueville is very helpful to us today. And I want to mention one other thing about it. Everybody who's listening to this podcast has this kind of reflective patriotism, I want to suggest to you. You may have never thought about it that way. You care enough about America to care about civic education, to care about citizenship education. You care enough about being a citizen to want to learn about America. So you've got this kind of the sentimental emotional commitment part. But you've got it in this reflective way. In that America is about ideas and it's about this complicated kind of self-government. And so we we need to do some studying. And so I think for us, the Educating for American Democracy Report, we realize there's a problem with civic education in K-12 schools, in higher education, which is why should I care? What's the motivation? I've got other things that I need to study that will help me to get a job or or help me to get ahead in life, deal with more immediate problems that I have. Why should I care about this citizenship education stuff, right? So the commitment to America as a good thing needs to be a part of civic education. And then Tocqueville, his genius, is to say, well, the Americans have this distinct way of doing that, uh reflective or considered patriotism.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

So Tocqueville's kind of focus on reflective patriotism fits within his general concerns in American democracy about citizen participation in self-government and sustaining a spirit of liberty.

America As Common Ground

Religion And Liberty As Foundations

Enlightened Self-Interest In Practice

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yes. And it's an interesting thing. When I started studying this, it it occurred to me it occurs as a phrase, reflective patriotism, or patriotism more narrowly, just as a single word, from the beginning of the book to the end of the book. It's there. And I just hadn't noticed. I'd been reading Democracy in America for a long, long time, and I really hadn't noticed it's there so consistently. And it it does r reinforce, it's sort of a sub-element of this larger theme he has in Democracy in America, to keep alive the spirit of liberty, of participatory self-government as crucial to America. So he has different elements, I argue, and actually this is coming out in a book, which I use reflective patriotism in the subtitle of. It's about civic education. Teaching America, reflective patriotism in schools, college, and culture. And I talk about how he has different elements of a reflective patriotism. One of them is the founding religious culture of America. At the beginning of Democracy in America is that the Puritans bring a spirit of liberty blended with the spirit of religion. And this is a formative character and culture of America. And out of that arises this distinctive American blend of a rational and sentimental patriotism. You could say the religious part is the sentimental, emotional, belief part. And the rational part is this is about liberty. So we're going to have argument and self-government and laws and complex ways of dealing with each other. And then he talks more explicitly about the blend of self-interest and the old-world general kind of patriotism. The Americans care about America and they do it in this kind of rational, self-interested way. Okay, I'm a citizen of America and I'm getting involved in the town council, or I'm getting involved in helping with this public problem or holding this small office, you know, a post office position, or dealing with roads in the town, or dealing with schools in the town. I'm going to do that because it's going to be better for me and my family and my friends if I get involved in, participate in self-government. Because the common good is really the best way to achieve my good, my own good. So he talks explicitly about that and says this is part of the reflective patriotism of the Americans, the considered rational part. And then later in the second volume, he explicitly uses the phrase of an enlightened or considered self-interest. The Americans think of their patriotism as in their self-interest. What's good for America is good for me, so I need to help out. So it's this rational element. And then he also does talk about schooling. The Americans have a commitment to schooling for all people. Eventually they they have tax funds being used in the states to provide a broader civic education. Now he doesn't get to women being educated in schools, and it's not as completely democratic as we would say today. But we have a more democratic egalitarian conception of public schools and public education because of things that were happening in the 19th century, and things are writing that Tocqueville was writing about this commitment to common schools. And Americans learn all the skills and ideas that they need to be citizens. So that's also part of his reflective patriotism that communities and states are committed to education and schooling. So the putting this back in the larger picture, all of this is good. The Americans have this right blend of sort of the religious foundation, the kind of habits of the heart, the sentimental part with the self-interested rational part. But as we've talked about in other episodes, he is a little worried that the Americans are too focused on equality, the sort of democratic spirit of me and my family getting ahead in life. You know, very poor people are born in America and they're still coming from Europe, and they haven't they haven't had this kind of liberty and opportunity elsewhere, but they got to get ahead on their own. And so that can be very absorbing. And so he writes about this sort of pull of your own economic advancement and material equality pulling you away from being a citizen. And so reflective patriotism can help Americans to say, I'm interested in how my community, my little township, my city, my county, my state, how America is doing. So I'm going to take some time to serve. I'm going to take some time to keep up on the news. I'm going to take some time to make sure I'm registered to vote. I'm going to take some time to participate. And it's interesting, he worries, as Democracy in America goes on, that the rational or self-interested part of patriotism might be coming, might it might be too dominant. Americans are losing out on some of the emotional, sentimental parts. He's worried, especially when he talks about federalism and slavery, and could the union hold together if there's a real he talks about the possibility of a war over slavery. Could the rational part not really work to hold together with the sentimental part for the union as a whole, a reflective patriotism of America, the United States of America as a whole? So he's eventually in Democracy in America talking about the need to shore up some of the sentimental belief, religious elements of a reflective patriotism.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

It's so funny when you talk about, like he was like, oh, a warm. Like I just feel like democracy in America was almost a crystal ball because he names a lot of things that end up happening in American history. So this seems to be kind of characteristic of Tocqueville and Democracy in America. He might trace some elements of American life, but he also offers these warnings about it. Again, this amazing crystal ball that he seemed to have. So what are his worries about whether we can sustain our distinctive kind of reflective patriotism?

Schools And Civic Learning

Equality, Ambition, And Service

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Yes. And the the one concern we've you've talked about in another episode, and I've talked about it with you, his concern about this civic apathy, this individualism, that the temptations of technology and economic advancement and this call of democratic equality, right? I can do better in life than my parents and my parents' generation did. And you get so absorbed in that, those sort of economic and private and maybe family dimensions of life that you say, but somebody else can worry about politics. Somebody can do the self-government thing for me. And he does say about the Americans when he says they have this philosophy of enlightened self-interest. The Americans will say, Oh, you know, I'm serving on the town council, or I'm serving on the school board, or I'm helping as the local road commissioner or Justice of the Peace. I'm doing that because it's really in my interest. You know, it's going to be better for me and my family. He says the Americans say that about themselves sort of justify their civic participation, but he says they don't really mean it. They still have a larger emotional commitment to America and to their, you know, from the local level up to the national level. And they do things just because it's the right thing to do. They serve. He says they're magnanimous and disinterested, right? They do it because it's the right thing to do to serve. And he says they don't really give credit to themselves. But he also warns that if they focus too much on that self-interested part, that will go in a narrow, individualistic direction. So he does talk about the need for the religious foundations, the moral dimension of reflective patriotism to be regenerated. He worries that in the era, all these things that Robert Putnam writes about, not just the Bowling Alone book, this famous Harvard political scientist, not just the bowling alone book in a decline of civil society, civil associations, but the sequel book with David Campbell called American Grace about religion in America, Putnam and Campbell. All these things that Tokville can see actually do come true in America. The warning that if we don't have the right sort of religious and common moral foundation with a spirit of religious liberty, it's not like the guy, he's all a big fan, Tokyo is a big fan of the First Amendment, religious liberty, religious pluralism, no government, state, or federal should tell you what to believe, but that religious belief generally is a good thing for Americans. If we don't keep that alive, we won't be able to keep alive this balanced, complicated, reflective patriotism because it's partly a belief and a hope in America. And ultimately says, right, this idea of equal natural rights. That's really a Christian religious moral metaphysical principle. You know, why shouldn't the weak just conquer the be conquered by the strong, right? Why shouldn't the more wealthy just conquer the right? It there's a religious higher metaphysical moral principle to that. So Tocqueville does write in the second volume of Droxy America how leaders in politics and leaders in in culture and education and society should talk about these moral principles and the sort of religious dimensions of these moral principles without imposing a religion or a doctrine. They should model these and talk about them to keep alive and sustain in America this sense of a common moral community, a hope and a belief in America, ideas of service and commitment, even when it's against your self-interest. You do it because it's the right thing to do. All of those Tocqueville thinks come from a metaphysical religious moral foundation. And we need to keep that alive, to keep alive the right balance of reflective patriotism, to keep alive civic participation and engagement. I mean, look at where we are today in 2026. Young people do not register to vote. We lowered the voting age in the 20th century to 18 years of age. But young people, 18 to 25, 18 to 30, do not register to vote at the same rate that older people do. And they don't actually get out and vote, even if they are registered at the same rate. Young people say, in answer to, you know, serious public opinion polls, polls are not perfect, but serious polls by very reputable firms, Gallup and Pew and others, right? Young people will say, I'm not very patriotic about America. I I it's not really that important to live in a democracy or live self-government. And boy, if young people are saying that at the rate it's been happening for decades now, where is all of America headed? Tocil could see that in the 1830s. That then that general kind of problem. I may have mentioned this before, the one of the polls that came out from 2022 onward, after Vladimir Putin's Russia invades Ukraine. So American posters generally asking questions about that war, about foreign policy, and then they sneak in the question. And what would you do if America was invaded? Would you fight, would you fight? Stay and fight the way the Ukrainians have have fought? And in 2022, and 2023 and 24, when this gets asked to Americans, you know, like a bare majority of Americans would say, yes, I'll stay and fight. It's not a very positive, heartwarming poll to read. Um but a majority of Americans say yes, I would stay and fight. But under 35 or under 30, a majority says no. I would not stay and fight for America if America was invaded. So the state now, sure, sure, you could say, oh, it's just easy to answer a poll, who cares, you know, it doesn't cost me anything. But there's a kind of privacy about a poll. You're anonymous where you can speak the truth. And if so repeatedly these reputable polling firms are registering that young Americans do not care about America. Why bother? What is the long-term trajectory for our civic health? So to get back to what I talked about at the beginning, this is why in the Educating for America Democracy Report, we we talked about Tookville's reflective patriotism. It's an element of a civic education to motivate you to care to be educated, but also to care about America in common, beyond my party, my policy views, my private self-interest. America is a good thing, even if it's not a perfect thing. It's a good thing, even if we're going to argue about it, which is a very American thing to do, to argue about America. Tok folk can see that. So that's why reflective patriotism matters, and actually why we ought to be doing what we're doing here. We ought to be teaching about it and talking about it and looking to talk about it. As a resource in the in the difficult situation we've gotten ourselves into.

Warnings About Sentiment And Union

SPEAKER_01 22:54

I again I think this is episode six of Alexis de Tocqueville, and I have just learned so much about him. And I really, I really do appreciate this reflective patriotism patriotism because I do think it's a truly American thing, right? Americans like to fight over things, and we all want this more perfect country. And we all have different ways where we think that that can happen. But, you know, I'm glad that you brought up one of the ways that we're doing it here at ASU at Stedtle and at the Center for American Civics is by making sure people understand all of these things. So, Dr. Creese, thank you, thank you, thank you. Listeners, Dr. Kreese did mention the Educating for American Democracy. I'm gonna put that report in the show notes. If you're interested in it, definitely take a look. It is a bipartisan thing, it is not one side or the other. There are incredible names on this list. We've done lots of research, lots of talking. So definitely check it out.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Great. Thank you, Liz, for all your good work.