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From the NFL to Recovery: Rebuilding Identity, Purpose & Sobriety
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In this powerful episode, we sit down with former Glenn Derby as he shares his raw and honest journey through life in the NFL, the battles that followed, and the work it took to rebuild his life. Glenn opens up about his struggles with addiction, the anger and trauma that shaped many of his early years, and the turning point that ultimately led him to sobriety.
Throughout the conversation, Glenn reflects on the highs and lows of his football career, what life looked like behind the scenes during and after the NFL, and how confronting his past became the first step toward lasting change. Today, he channels those experiences into helping others—mentoring young people and supporting individuals who are searching for sobriety, direction, and purpose.
This episode is a candid look at resilience, accountability, and the power of transformation. Glenn’s story is a reminder that no matter how difficult the road becomes, it’s always possible to rebuild, heal, and use your experiences to lift others up.
The Members Room is a space for founders, creators, and business owners to share their journey, hosted by Alex Thiakos.
Guest – Glenn Derby
INSTAGRAM: @gderby794
WEBSITE: Glennderby@mac.com
FACEBOOK: From the Line to the Light
Host – Alex Thiakos
INSTAGRAM: @alexthiakos
Members Room
INSTAGRAM: @membersroom
TIKTOK: @membersroom
Well Glenn, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. You uh you've done a lot in your in your lifetime, in your career, helping people out uh with many different uh problems and you went through a lot yourself um growing up.
SPEAKER_00You want to start when you were a young kid and what you Yeah, I um you know I started off young, I mean obviously we all start off as babies and then we you know you you're born into the family and and you kind of follow the family around. And my dad um he was kind of a troubled, troubled uh person. He ran into um a lot of issues with his career, and he couldn't decide really what he wanted to be. So as him and my mom are trying to make a family and raise raise us and so forth, he could not hold a job. So we kept moving a lot. And I um I am six foot six now, and when I was younger, I was always at least a head taller than everybody, usually more like a foot or more. And so I always stuck out. And when I when I was going through elementary school, uh I did not go to the same elementary school for more than one year. Actually, one year was the most. There was a lot of times I'd switch in between the the years, and you know, all of us know when you go into a school environment, it's very intimidating. Uh, it can be very scary for kids. And when I would go into school, I was really into learning and I loved stuff, and I was always raising my hand and kind of you know, and then all of a sudden I'd become the teacher's pet, and then I'd start getting picked on, and you know, they'd start laughing at me when I would raise my hand and answer the question, and you know, because they didn't know the answer and they didn't want me to say it, and so I never really was able to make like close connections with kids, and if I did, it was so short-lived. I mean, it was only like you know, at the most nine months. So I started to become really, really angry, and I started to become really you know almost antisocial and was it was very hard for me to make friends and stick with them, so I kind of became a little bit of a lone wolf in a way, and I would attach myself to other outcasts, and we started fairly early at the around the age of 13, where I I that's when I had my first um experience with being intoxicated. And when I did, uh me and a buddy of mine went down to the basement of our house where we had a bunch of beer, and we challenged each other to drink uh uh three three beers in a six-pack, and it was warm beer and it was rainier beer, and it was nasty. But we each challenged ourselves to drink it down, and I tell people all the time that after at about a beer and a half, I had that feeling that went down through my body, and it was becoming intoxicated. And that feeling, I equated it with God. I was like, oh, that's what they're talking about. This is what you're supposed to feel like, this is feeling good, and from that moment on, I mean, I look back on my life many, many times, and I can tell you from that moment on, that and having a sexual experience were the only two things I cared about. And so I'm gonna do whatever I can do to get those feelings because that's where I felt like I was okay, I was safe, I was good. My dad was very uh verbally abusive, he was physically abusive, but not on a regular basis. Um but he was very, very difficult to grow up with. Um and so I was in trouble all the time. I had a I had a principal who actually wrote my name on the paddle that he used. Uh in Montana, they have corporate punishment, so I would get a paddle beating probably two or three times a month, uh mainly for doing stuff that boys do. You know, we weren't allowed to tackle each other on the playground, we weren't allowed to uh grab onto cars and slide our way over to the gymnasium, you know. So it was all innocent stuff, but I was always getting in trouble doing that. And um, you know, it really the turning point for me was my freshman, right after my freshman year, my dad decided to move to Wisconsin from Montana, and it crushed me. It literally took a lot of the life out of me, it took a lot of what was enjoyable, and so from then on it was all about the drinking and finding girls. And the best way for me at us as 6'6, and you know, I was I loved basketball, but I was never gonna be um you know an NBA player at 6'6 as a four as a center, so football became what I was gonna do. And when I got a scholarship to the University of Wisconsin to play football, and I was getting recruited all over the country, and all of a sudden girls started paying attention to me. Uh these these recruiting visits I'd go on and I'd get absolutely hammered and just have the best time, and it was the crazy stuff we did, and I was hooked, man. I'm like, that's that's living. And so that became my that became my mission. Um and and it was it was a pretty ugly road, especially towards the end.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you were still able to um keep up with being a high-level athlete in high school while also drinking uh on almost a weekly basis?
SPEAKER_00People ask me that, and I and I it's it's kind you know, I I've coached high school football for 30 years, and and I watch these kids, and you can tell when a kid is not feeling good or when he's hung over or when he's not full goal. And I wonder, I often wonder how was I able to do it? And I literally, Alex would go and get hammered on a Wednesday night, a Thursday night, a Sunday night. I didn't on Friday and I didn't on Saturday until after the game. And there were a lot of times where I was going in to do our squats at 6 a.m. and I had just come home from the bar at like 2 30. So I got about two hours of sleep, and I'm squatting like you know, 700 pounds on my back, and you know, going and puking and coming back and do it again, and it was it was a mindset that I think you know, and I tell people, uh especially kids, I'm like, you know, when you play a violent sport or any sport for that matter, you have to have that eye of the tiger, and you have to have that burning desire. And I think for me, the burning desire was the next high. It was the next girl I could get with. It was the next feeling. And when you walk out onto a stadium where there's 80,000 people screaming and yelling, and you're you're out in the field, you know, that's a high that you cannot get anywhere else. And those were the types of things that I was really running towards.
SPEAKER_02And I know a lot of people know the movie uh The Water Boy, which where he where he became very good at football is because he took his past trauma and used it on the field. Is that something you would say you did?
SPEAKER_00I definitely did. I had a coach one time tell me, and and I was a I was a you know, a lot of people thought I was a pretty nice guy, and I am a nice guy, but um, you know, they were trying to get me to be a lot tougher, and this was right around, I think, my sophomore or freshman year. I had a coach who he would say, Listen, that last girl that you asked out and she said no. Does that make you angry? And I said, Yes. He said, Take her picture and think of her face and put it on the guy across from you and go beat the shit out of it. And I was like, before Waterboy came out? Yeah, this was well, this would have been 1978 or 79, maybe 80, yeah, right around that, right around the 1980s. So yeah, it was before Waterboy. And so I would look at that and I would like, you know, wah. And then when I got to college, it got even more, you know, and then I was strong enough and and uh yeah, I almost every play and and going against the other teams, I would always I would imagine that they were somebody that I didn't like. And I'm like, okay, take it out on them, you know. You can't go beat them up because you're gonna go to jail, so go put his picture on this dude and go beat and go after him. And I did, and I I was a pretty, you know, I was a pretty aggressive player. Um and I didn't mind hurting people. It wasn't something that I felt bad about.
SPEAKER_02I know college has a lot more uh stricter rules when it comes to uh your team and your coach and every everything. So how was your drinking and partying um during college? Was it exacerbated a lot more than it was in high school, or did you have to kind of suppress it a little bit for the rules of the team?
SPEAKER_00Every level it goes up. So when you're in middle school, to get to high school, you gotta raise your game, you gotta be a little bit faster. When you go from high school to college, same thing, college to pro, same thing. And for me, back in so I I was uh I went to Wisconsin in 1983, and they didn't start drug testing in I till I think 1986 or 87. And then I mean here was our rules in college. If we go to a bar and there's coaches in it, because drinking age back then was 18. Um, so I was legal at 18, and I was so and I was 18 my senior year in high school, so I was legal very early. But the rule at Wisconsin was if you go into a bar and there's a coach in there, you leave. If a coach walks into a bar and players are there, they leave. So it was really not like it is today. Um they almost expected you to party hard.
SPEAKER_02If the coaches walk in on the players, the coaches have to leave.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Whoever was at who was ever at the bar first, it was like that, they are the ones that get to stay there. Whoever walks in, they got to go somewhere else. Because, you know, obviously the coaches aren't going to party with the players, but they didn't care that we were out partying. I mean, uh I I and I walked, I there was a number of times I walked in and the coaches were there, and I just gave them a, you know, hey guys, have a good time, and I turn around and go somewhere else. Um, but back then, like there was a time, and this is this is a scary story. Um, I got I basically flunked out of school my freshman year, and I had to go to I had to go to summer school and I had to get all A's. Well, there was a deal where if you lived at home, you still got your per diem for a living. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna make some extra money, I'm gonna live at home. Well, it's a 50-mile drive from home, and one morning I was running a little late, and there was this Corvette that went flying by me, and I jumped behind him, and we were going like 90 to 100 miles an hour, and both of us got pulled over, and we're sitting on the side of the road, and the cop came up and he got my license. He goes, Ah, Derby, what the hell are you doing? I'm like, I gotta get to class. I said, I gotta pass this class, otherwise, I I don't I'm not gonna be eligible next year.
SPEAKER_02He's a big Wisconsin football fan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was, and so he ended up he's he told me to sit tight, and the they wrote the guy in the Corvette a ticket, and then both cops, one got in front of me, one got behind me, and they took me to my class with the lights on at a hundred and some miles an hour. That that stuff doesn't happen today, uh, or at least you don't hear about it. Um, so it was a different world back then. Um, the drinking was kind of like almost not expected, but it wasn't like frowned upon. Uh there were a lot of drunk coaches. I mean, I remember in uh when I played at Green Bay, the coach there, man, he smelt like a brewery every every meeting that we went to. And it was just kind of common practice back then. And I I had, you know, uh part of my story too is my dad was an Episcopal priest, and so I went to church a lot. Uh, I tried to read the Bible, I tried to be a good guy, I tried to do all the things, it just didn't work for me. Um, you know, so I never got to the part in the Bible where he tells you to be of sound mind and tells you to, you know, be sober and and don't don't don't take things that you know mess with your mind. I never really saw all that. I didn't learn all that until much later in my life. And um so I was kind of going on social norms, and it was pretty normal for college football players to be a bunch. I mean, we would get in fights at at frat houses. Uh I remember one time there was we went to a frat house and a bunch of the players took their soda machine and dumped it upside down out on the street, and we were, you know, they wouldn't want us in, and we banged the doors down, and the cops came, and you know, it was just always crazy stuff like that that was going on.
SPEAKER_02So you had a you had a very good career at Wisconsin, and you entered the NFL draft. And you got Did you get drafted by the New Orleans Saints, was it?
SPEAKER_00I did, yeah, I did. I was I played in the All-Star game, or I played in two or three All-Star games my senior year. Um we played I played for the uh in the um senior bowl, and the coaching staff was the Seattle Seahawks coaching staff, and the team we played against, the New Orleans Saints coaching staff, was on there. So they they were coming after me. Um but I and I was supposed to go in the top five uh in the draft my junior year, but we had our our coach died spring of my junior year and um my redshirt sophomore year, and then I had another coach and then another coach, and uh um the last coach that I had, he moved me from a tackle to a guard. I should have said no, like my buddy did, and my buddy ended up getting he was the fourth pick in the draft. Um, and I was supposed to go in the first first or second round, and when I was sitting around waiting, kind of like Shadur Sanders, I watched him this year, and it sucks. When you've got all these people telling you that you're gonna be first, second, third round, and all of a sudden these rounds go by and you're still sitting there and you're calling your agent, like what the hell's going on? He's like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Well, I started sliding, and I was one of those guys. I slid all the way down to to the uh 218th pick, I think, um, by the Saints, and you know, it it was hard because there were two guys drafted before me that I had to beat out to make the team. So um, and they and they were higher draft picks, and they ended up getting cut. So I I should have been a higher pick, I wasn't, and you know, it at the time I was very angry about it. Um now I look at it, and it's probably saved my life because the way I was going, I didn't think I'd live to 30 years old. Um I Alex, I woke up in the middle of the night on my 30th birthday in tears because I had no idea what to do or where to go. Because I thought I'd be dead by 30, and I thought I'd be playing football until I was 30, and it just it didn't work out. And you know, I went through a divorce, went through a marriage, um, and I was just crushed. Now here I am, I'm sober. I got sober at 29, so I'm sober at 30, going, what do I do with the rest of my life? And it's been kind of uh it's been an uphill challenge um in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if I asked, but were you were you into certain kind of drugs also in the Well I I was very anti-drug for most of my time.
SPEAKER_00Uh I didn't even like I didn't like pot. Uh I I would smoke it occasionally. Um didn't really care for it. My this is part of my story that is probably the turning point in my life. Um I play a game against we I was with the Saints, I played against the Green Bay Packers, and I had a phenomenal game. I played against an all-pro. He got no tackles, he and one time he got around me and he got his hand on the quarterback and caused him to throw an incomplete pass. Not a big deal. Well, when I came out of the locker room after I got all changed and my dad and mom were there, and I was all excited to go, hey, you know, I I had the game of my life. I mean, I'm playing just spectacular. And I walk over and gave my dad a hug. And he uh he whispered in my ear, he said, God, if only you could have got that one play. And I went, are you freaking kidding me? I can't even please you at this level. I mean, it was like I just couldn't, I'm like, man. So I was in a huge depression. I was I got on the bus, we go to the plane, I fly home. We didn't have cell phones back then. As soon as I got to my apartment, I called my buddy and I said, I need as many painkillers as you can get me. And so he got me a bottle of Percocet. And I pretty much, after that game, I had no desire to play. I went to practice only because it was a paycheck. I started to lose any enthusiasm about the game. I started losing enthusiasm about women, everything. And I just started popping pills, and towards the end, it it I I like what I heard in some of the meetings I went to, and they talked about how you know alcoholism you can live with for quite a while in your in your life. You know, you can live into being an older man, but drugs will take you down fast. And that's the truth. The the percocets, I was taking five to fifteen a day for probably a year or two, and I was just a puddle. I mean, I was a mental mush. I I just I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01You were still playing at this point.
SPEAKER_00Uh I was, yeah, but not very well. Not very well.
SPEAKER_01I was by yourself or just no one signed you.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, I I was with the I was with the Saints uh for so that happened. So I played with them the rest of the year, and then I got I was the one of the first guys to be a free agent. Uh before that, there was no free agency. There was no players that left a team to go somewhere else unless they got cut. Well, I was one of the first guys to go free agent, and I went to Green Bay. Um I was supposed to go to Green Bay to be their long snapper, and then their long snapper decided not to retire. So I had to make it as a regular player, and um I was starting at center and doing really well. And I had to do this one play where it's like a double read. I look here and then I got a peel off to get a guy coming off the outside. And it was Bryce Pop coming in. You know, this is practice, and this dude goes 100% every single play, whether it's practice or not, and he blew me up. Uh, he hit me right in the side of my head here, and my whole entire arm went completely numb. And I flew in the air and I landed on the ground, and then my head hit the ground. So I kind of had a double concussion. And back then they didn't stop you from playing when you got a concussion. They just said, you know, you can say your name, alright. Go. Well, I'm laying on the ground and I could hear all the all the crowd that's around, and they're like, Holy shit, did you see that? Oh my god, that dude was flying, and and I'm laying there and I can't move my arm, and the trainers are coming over and they're trying to get me up, and I'm like, wait a minute, I can't I can't see right. Everything was spinning, and I felt like I was gonna puke. And they got me up, and then they got me into the training room, and then they had me um at practice, I'd have to sit on one of these things and and row like this. It was like a rowing deal. And I'm like, why am I doing this? They go, well, we got to keep you in shape, and you know, you need to get your ass back out on the field. And I'm like, I can't, there's no way I can do that. My arm is like weak, I don't have any strength in it. And I decided to walk away. I I went in and talked to the head coach and said, I can't do this anymore. And I walked out and drove home and I was done.
SPEAKER_02What was your what was your plan then on where you just thought, I'm gonna leave, and then it's year it out after?
SPEAKER_00I was married at the time and she's she's bitching at me about what are you gonna do? And I'm like, uh I played in the NFL, man, I'll be good. I go to my first interview, I throw my tie on, I'm looking all ready to go. So I go to my first interview and I said, uh, they said, so what's your experience? I said, Well, I played in the NFL. And I smiled and they looked at me and they said, What else have you done? Like, what else is there? I said, I made it to the NFL. And they're like, Well, you that that doesn't help us with what we need you to do. And I'm like, What do you mean? And they they just they said, Do you have a degree? And I said, No, I didn't finish it. And they're like, Well, we aren't and so I I did that like probably 10 or 15 times at different companies. And I went home, you know, and this was before I got sober, and I went home and uh my wife at the time said she was leaving. She was going back to New Orleans because I was a loser and I wasn't gonna get a job, and I'm like, screw this, and uh I ended up calling a friend of mine, um, Paul Christ, who was the head coach at Wisconsin, but he was a good friend of mine back in the day, and his dad was a coach at uh University of Wisconsin Platteville, and I called him up and I said, I need help, I have to get my degree, and I don't have any money because I I spent all my money in when I was in the NFL. It was I spent it on stupid stuff. But I ended up um going to Platteville and I got my my uh degree, and then then it started, and it just kind of one thing fell into another, and I ended up becoming a teacher. And and I really enjoyed it for about 20, 22, 23 years.
SPEAKER_02And did you sober up at this point?
SPEAKER_00That was right about so I was at Plattville. My ex-wife was in New Orleans, and I told her I had to quit. And so I quit drinking, and I didn't drink for about three months. Still took a pill here or there. Not a ton, but I still was taking some. And um she came back up. She tried to stay sober. She had a she loved cocaine. Um and we tried to stay sober, but we didn't last very long. And ended up, I got a job in Milwaukee after I got my um uh degree. I was selling fitness equipment, and she was she was a Miller Lite model, so she was doing gigs all over Milwaukee for Miller Light. And we were doing okay, but we were still partying, and she came home one day and said, I have to go to treatment, I can't do this anymore. And I said, Alright, I'll take you with I'll take you. And we go into the treatment center, and this guy, I God bless him, I wish I could remember his name, uh, but he was a counselor. He called me into his office and he said, Glenn, we've got a bed for you. And I looked at him, I said, What? I said, I don't have a problem. I'm here to help support my wife. He goes, I think you got a pretty good problem, dude. And um I I refused to go in, but he's he he begged me to come to his outpatient. So on Monday, uh my ex-wife went into treatment and I went home and then I I went to his outpatient on Monday, and he started reading all the characteristics of an alcoholic or drug addict, and I'm like, oh my god. I hit almost every one of them. And I had always thought an alcoholic was some street bum with a bag and a bottle in the bag with no shoes on, you know, barely making it. I thought that's what an alcoholic was. Then he started explaining how you know there's there's the um productive alcoholics or the ones that you know they can keep a job, but there's all this other stuff. And so he went over all of this stuff, and I'm like, wow, that is me. So I after the meeting, uh I went to him and I said, So what do I do? And he goes, Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to quit drinking today. He said, Don't stop the pills. And I said, Okay, I can do that. So I went Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then on Thursday, he said, Okay, we're not gonna have meeting, we don't have group until Monday. So you're gonna go home, you're gonna get a whole bunch of water, you're gonna tell all your friends to leave you alone, you're not gonna answer the phone, you're not gonna do anything, but you're gonna stay in your house for three days. So have enough food, have enough water. And he goes, You're gonna dump all your pills into the toilet and flush them, and then you're gonna call me and tell me that you did that. So Thursday I did that, and he said, You're gonna have a miserable weekend. He said, But just hang in there and come to me on Monday and don't use or drink. And so I did, and Alex, it was the worst weekend. I was curled up in a ball, I had like fever, like I was every joint, my body, my fingers, everything was just hurting, and I'm laying in bed just screaming and sweating, and it was wet, and then I go on the floor, and three days, but I finally on Monday, it actually was pretty interesting. Monday morning I woke up and I'm like, oh, I feel pretty good. So I went to work and then I went to the group and I told him, and he goes, Yeah, he goes, Um, withdrawing from narcotics is bad, bad news. He said, But there's nothing you can do. You can't give them any medication, you just have to go through the withdrawals. And he said, now you're gonna stay sober. He goes, You don't you're not taking any pills and you're not drinking any alcohol, and you're gonna start working a program, and we're gonna get you sober. And that was January 28th of 1994.
SPEAKER_02Did you have any um itch to get back on the pills or alcohol? Oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how did you what was the secret?
SPEAKER_00The secret for me was having people to call. I had a I had met a couple guys in treatment, and then I went to a couple meetings, and I met a couple really cool guys, and we started hanging out. We drank lots of coffee. Uh right after the treatment, my ex-wife she went back to New Orleans, so I didn't really have her support. So I was looking for any, and I got about probably 10 or 12 guys that I met in the meetings, and I would call them and I'd go over to their house. We'd play cards and drink coffee, play cards, drink coffee. Um, you know, there was a couple sober houses where they had dances, we'd go to the dances. We were all into riding Harley's, so we all rode all over the place, and it just I got with a bunch of guys that's that were sober and stayed sober, and when that craziness started happening in your head, I'd get a hold of them and go hang out with them and stay there until I felt better. Um you know, it it I haven't had a you know, it's interesting, I have not had a craving for probably I don't know, seven to ten years. Um I went through a really rough uh divorce not too long ago, and I there was one time where I was to the point where, you know what, screw it, I'm older. You know, now this is my third marriage. I just why even bother?
SPEAKER_02And thankfully, you know, I through the grace of God he put the right people in my life and I didn't I didn't use and you also coach kids through addiction and anger issues. I do. What is kind of your what are your keys to getting over either anger issues or addiction?
SPEAKER_00Well addiction addiction and anger are not they're they're two separate separate beasts. Addiction is I like to say you have two people. You've got the addict and you've got the person. Kids up until probably 22-ish or so, 22 to 25, they're kids. They need positive, strong messages. They need somebody to give them hard messages, but that they from somebody that cares about them. The number one thing that I found, and I worked with mostly boys, is that majority of the kids that had troubles that were in addictions, that were in it, they did not have a positive male role model in their life. They might have had a dad, but he was usually, you know, it could be an alcoholic, or it was a stepdad who was really angry, and you know, that they just didn't have that positive male person that gave them value. So the the key to having most of the kids that I worked with is trying to find somebody for them to get as a mentor or someone in their family, like I would look for grandpas, or I'd look for uncles, or I would look for brothers, and say, you know, this kid really needs somebody to care about him, and it needs to be a male. Um, females are great. I mean, mothers have done great jobs, but I'll I'll tell you the the for boys, most boy mentalities, they learn how to manipulate their moms, and they use almost anything to do it, and it doesn't it doesn't affect them in a negative way, they almost feel like that's what they're supposed to do, and it that and that's lacking that male person in their life. So um that's so for the addiction, when you get addicted, it doesn't mean you're bad first. Now, anger, here's the thing that I learned, and this is where for 40 years I tried to teach anger management. I went to anger management. Here I am at like 50 years old, and I still have this major rage problem. Like I would get so mad at my last wife, and she would like, man, you better go get some help. So I'd go in and I'd get anger management, and I did it for many years. And anger management didn't work for me. All those techniques that they told me, they didn't do shit. They maybe they maybe brought it down a little bit, but I was still angry. And I'd go do the things that they said and I'd still be angry, and one little thing that she would say would set me off. So I found out that I didn't have an anger problem. I went to the last time that I went to go get anger management, I said to the counseling agency, I said, I don't know what the hell you guys do. I said, but I've been to so much anger management and none of it's worked. And this counselor that I got, he said, I have a feeling I know what the problem is. And I said, Okay, well, I hope so because I'm sick of this shit. So I went in and I started meeting him, and he after about eight months, he looked at me and he goes, Glenn, you don't have an anger man, uh, anger problem. As a matter of fact, you should be angry for all the things that are going on with you right now. And I said, Well, then why am I raging so bad? And you know, he goes, Because you've got a trauma problem, you're getting triggered. So when I would get blow up, it had nothing to do with what was going on right now, it was triggering my memories from when I was a kid, and so I'm trying to get that need of comfort or care or something that I needed to calm me down, and all I'm doing is getting triggered. So, all that did was just kept erasing my emotions. So I ended up having to do a lot of uh trauma work, um, and it was about a year and a half of like going to do EMDR. We we started to re-reprogram the brain. So the I got a really good uh analogy of um what worked for me is he said, so you're sitting at the at the breakfast table, you're about nine years old, you spill a glass of milk, your dad starts screaming and yelling at you. Damn it! We're gonna be late for work, you're gonna cause me to get fired, da da da da da. The whole way to school, he's yelling at you saying, When you get home, you're gonna be uh um whatever you call it, uh you're gonna uh not curfew, uh what's that called? Grounded. You're gonna be grounded and you're gonna have to clean the house and clean this, and so you get out of the car, you go into the school, you feel like crap, you're like, oh, I don't want to go home. This is terrible. You go home, it's horrible, blah, blah, blah. 30 years later, you're sitting at the breakfast table, you spill a cup of coffee, and your wife gives you a look and you blow up, like crazy blow up, and you're like, you know, and you're just mad and you're like, I didn't mean to do it, and and she's just looking at it like, what's wrong with you? Well, you got triggered. So you go back to those those memories, and so here's here's how here's how it's supposed to go is you spill the milk, your dad yells at you, you're in the car, you're going to school, your dad goes, Glenn, I'm really sorry I yelled at you. I got mad, I know it was a mistake. Let's figure out a way to do it better so that we don't have to be in a rush. Let's get you out and get you at the table, get you drinking your milk 20 minutes before. Let's get you out of bed earlier. We'll clean it up when we get home. You're not grounded, you're not in trouble, you get out of school, you know you made a mistake, you go to school, you have a good day, you go home, you see your dad, everything's good. Twenty years later, 30 years later, you spill that cup of coffee, your wife gives you a look and you look at her and go, honey, I'm really sorry I spilled that. I'll take care of it. You know, I know you're in a hurry, I love you, have a great day, and you don't and you don't blow up. That's the difference between, you know, and I thought it was anger management, I thought it was an anger problem, but it it was a complete trauma problem, and I kept getting triggered, and I I found out too that all three of my wives had very similar characteristics to my dad. So I picked them and I'm trying to get that love that I wanted to get from my dad. I'm trying to get them from my wives, and I'm not getting it. And so it's just setting me off like I was when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02So it's basically like taking those situations. Whenever you get mad, and this is anybody can practice this, whenever you get mad, you kind of think of why you're getting mad. Kind of like think a little deeper into it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02For every situation, and kind of try to fix that situation, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Well, and here here's here's Alex, this you'll love this. So my counselor taught me this. He said, take your hands and and just start rubbing like this. And what and basically what you're gonna do is every morning you're gonna get up and on all your computer, iPads, screens, your phone, you're gonna put a picture of something that you were really happy with when you were a kid. So I have this mountain scene where I was up in the mountains and I was absolutely the happy- I can never remember being happier than when I was up there playing in the wind and looking at these mountains, and I was thinking about camping down in this thing. So I put those on my screen. For two minutes, I would just look at that screen every morning and I would rub my hands and I would think about how awesome it was.
SPEAKER_02Association.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And so when you start to feel a little bit agitated or a little bit mad, and I still to this day do it, and I've been doing it for about three or four years, I'll just start doing this. And then I just close my eyes and I think of that. And what you're supposed to be thinking of is a good time in your childhood. And then what you do is you say, Is what's going on right now something that's very important or not very important? Is it something that's really urgent? Like you need your anger if someone walks in your house with a gun, or if somebody or somebody's gonna hit you, or you know, there's a good purpose for anger, but but not when it's something that's like triggering you. So when you get that, you go, okay, this is most likely from my childhood. I don't need to deal with it right now. So whoever you're having a conflict with or wherever that anger or that uneasy feeling is, you say to them, let's talk about this in a couple days. I I need to just go and just need to relax, and then you go and you think really good thoughts and you start, you know, like pray. I I do a lot of praying. I'll go and start talking to God and I'll say, you know, it's God, I I really I there's no reason I should be getting upset because she or he or whoever it was, they really weren't trying to do anything to me. You know, please take that feeling away. Please help me so that I don't get triggered by it. And if you do that on a regular basis, it goes away. I I very it's been probably, God, I bet you it's been two and a half years since I've had any kind of uh anger episode. Um, I get frustrated, absolutely. You know, we we had Giardia go through the house, so the dogs were pooping all over the place. That got me a little upset, but you know, that's something that's like you know, legitimate, you get upset at. You know, you get tired of cleaning up poop. Um but it's not something you go crazy over. And you know, I used to throw things, I'd like throw things through the window, I'd get in my truck and squeal the tires and go racing around the neighborhood, screaming and yelling, top of my lungs, cranking music, you know. I don't do any of that anymore.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I think delaying that's something that's worked for me. Not not saying I'm an angry, very angry person, but whenever I do get angry, definitely delaying the anger and giving yourself time to think about it. Uh I saw this, I forgot who did it, but they said whenever they are with their uh significant other and they start getting mad at them, they'll go in separate rooms and just text each other because it gives you time to think. You know, people when you blurt out things and hurt people, yeah, yeah, you really don't mean them. So when you get to type it, you get time to think about what you're saying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, that's a good way to do it. I I always, you know, the I like the whole thing of finding what your love language is, um, because you know, like I know mine is touch. So anytime I'm in a relationship, if I'm in a bad place, I'll tell my partner, just touch me. You know, just come over and give me a hug, just kind of rub me a little bit. Man, I get I just get soft right then. It's like, okay, there's you know, there's nothing in the world that is better than that. And so I it it always makes me feel good.
SPEAKER_02Who's your who's your ideal, I guess, client? What do they look like? What are they going through?
SPEAKER_00Is it uh I I I do work with I do work with uh very rarely do I work with like active addicts or alcoholics. One of the things that I really feel strongly in is that you know if you really want to get sober, go to a meeting, find a program, go to the counselors that work on that. So I'll tell people, you know, I'll help you, but you don't call me if you've been drinking, and don't call me if you've been doing drugs. And so I I don't work real well with like the people that are first getting sober. I work really well with people that are in difficult relationships, like they're on the verge of getting divorced or they're um you know fighting with their spouse or their girlfriend all the time. Um and usually almost all of them, you'll you'll find some out of some kind of childhood issues that are running the show, and a lot of it is maturity. So I try to help men get more mature, be more of a man. You know, if you're if you're someone who reads the Bible and follows Jesus, he tells it exactly how to be a man. It's so crystal clear. And I wished when I was younger I had somebody teaching me that the exact way to become a man, because I think I would have become mature and would become a more of a man earlier in life, and I wouldn't have done all the dumbass things that I did. But it it happens when it happens, and I've I've learned it now. Um so my ideal client is probably former athletes that are struggling with their emotional regulation, um, people that are in real in bad relationships that wanna they want to salvage it. Um, and then I do work with people who you know have been sober for a while and they're just not enjoying life. Um, you know, I I help them like one of the things that I love is I this guy named Michael Chernoby taught me this probably five or no, about seven years ago, I think. And he said, when you get up in the morning, the first thing you gotta do is smile. He says, Do it for 20 minutes. Go in the bathroom, smile at yourself, tell yourself, hey, it's gonna be a great day, and just sit there and smile. I guess there's a physiological change in the brain when you have that smile on your face every morning, and it literally changes your whole entire outlook on the day. And I was working out at this facility and I would go in there all the time, and I always had what they call a resting bitch face. I always look like I'm upset, I'm looking like I'm and I'm just thinking about whatever. And and this this young lady at the desks looked at me and says, Wow, you've been you're doing really good. And I'm like, Well, thank you. Why do you say that? She goes, Well, you always have a smile on your face. And I said, Really? I said, I didn't used to. She goes, No, I was scared to death of you. I thought you were coming in to kick my ass. I said, Really? I said, I didn't realize that. So now when I see somebody, I automatically smile. It's like, you know, if you smile at someone, you're gonna change the whole entire dynamics of that conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good. People say smiling's contagious.
SPEAKER_00It is, and so is the frowns. You know, both of them are. You can create you can create negative bullshit fast. I used to do it at work all the time. You know, I'd be in a bad mood, I'd get everyone else there in a bad mood. That way I didn't feel like I was alone. And you know, I I wished that I would have known all this stuff now, I it would have been a lot better place to work. Um, you know, so yeah, you can change that. And I and I do that with a I help a lot of people uh do that. It's you know, and now I've I've actually just recently I've created a seven-week program that helps people with uh complex post-traumatic stress, and it's to help people get out of this trauma and get into the happiness and the joy that that God talks about. You know, He wants us to be happy, He doesn't want us to be miserable, He He definitely wants us to be happy. So um, but we many of us don't know how. You know, watching social media and watching uh news media and listening to people talk, man, it's almost impossible unless you change it. Social media can be spectacular. There are so many good people on there, there's so much good things to see, but you have to be you have to be um adamant about looking for it.
SPEAKER_02What are the biggest mistakes kids my generation and younger are making uh in regards to this whole depression epidemic with kids my age with social media and everything? What are people doing wrong and how can people change it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I think I think some of it is the instant gratification. Um, you know, when I was younger, we didn't have cell phones. I I mean I was I still remember when Pong first came out. I don't know if you know what Pong is, but it was it was like a table tennis thing on TV where the ball goes and you move the thing up and hit it and it goes. There were people that spent tons and tons of time playing that game. When you sit and you're not active, which is I watch, you know, one of my daughters loves to lay in bed and look at YouTube. And she'll sometimes spend two or three hours doing that. Well, that's depressing. That's uh I think. Getting active, going and doing things is so much better for you than sitting on a on a screen or that. There's you need to, I think what you need to do is you need to schedule some time, like maybe two hours at the most, but not two hours in a row. Half an hour at 10 a.m., half an hour at 3 p.m., a half an hour at 8 o'clock or whatever, and that's it. And then go tell your friends, let's go for a walk, let's go down to the lake, let's go play some volleyball, let's go do this, and get yourself going. I I see the a lot of the um parents are single, or a lot of the families are single parent families. I see video games and TV as the babysitters. I see parents not involved with their kids. They don't do things and help them go. They just basically make sure there's food on the table and they got a place to live. And that's it. Well, that's very depressing because kids need to feel valued. They need to feel like they're important. And right now, your generation is being told by the older generation that you guys are lazy and you don't do shit, and you know, that's gonna wear off on you and you're gonna believe it. It's not true. Is it true that you don't have the work ethic that some of the older people do? Yeah, maybe. But do you need that kind of work ethic? We're not an industrial nation anymore. We're more of an intellectual inner uh nation. You don't need the hardcore, like you know, tough uh labor kind of people. There's still a place for it, but it's not like the massive. It's like, you know, when I was growing up, most people had a father, uncle, or somebody in their family that worked really hard, hard labor jobs. Um, so those are the people that I think sometimes get hard on the younger people. We need your generation needs mentors, your generation needs to find people like hopefully like me or others that are a little bit older that have been through a bunch of bullshit and have figured it out and are gonna try and teach them. Um I see a lot of there's a lot of conflict and problems with how to date and find your your partner, and I think that's very depressing. Um dating sites are not healthy in my opinion. They're you know, they're they're like a menu, like you you schedule a menu of items of what you want, and most of it's physical. Um I don't think that helps you guys. I don't I think there needs to become a better formal way of like asking a girl out, or you know, like I talk to my daughters all the time. I'm like, how come you guys have never really gone out with guys? Well, nobody ever asks. And I'm like, you know what? Guys don't ask girls out anymore. They just kind of they send a couple Snapchats to them and say, Hey, look at me, do I look good? Let's go, you know, get together. There's never never a formal, hey, would you like to go out for coffee or would you like to go for dinner, go to a movie, something like that? You know, there the your generation doesn't do that kind of stuff, and I think there's a lot of confusion. Um plus I think you've got a lot of um confusion on like you know, sexuality, um, your gender stuff. I think some of that stuff is is really playing havoc on people, and they're they're kind of like using it as well, you know, kind of like I felt like I was gonna die drinking. I was like, I love alcohol so much, I I figured I'd be dead by 30. Well, that's not really the way to live, and and many people don't live that way, and you know, you gotta find a better way to live. And I so I I think I don't know if that answers your question, but that's kind of how I look at your generation for sure. A little bit they're confused.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And uh lastly to cap this off, if you had one piece of advice or something that your dad would have told you the day after you took your first drink when you were 30 years old, one thing he could have told you that would have changed your trajectory, what do you think it would have been?
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's a powerful question. Um So there was one time I was laying in my bed and I it was a a three-story house, and I was in the basement, but the basement had a window that overlooked where we the parking garage was. And I woke up at like eight o'clock because I heard some noise outside my window, and there was my dad cleaning all the beer cans out of my car. So I'm like, oh, I'm in trouble. I went back to sleep, woke up a little bit later, I went upstairs. My dad was sitting in his chair reading his book, mom was making breakfast. Dad looked up at me and said, Hey, how you doing? I said, I'm good. He said, How was your night last night? I said, It was okay. He goes, Oh, you got any plans for the day? And I said, Ah, not really. He goes, Okay, well, have a good day, I've, you know. And that was it. I'm like, I'm watching him take all these beer cans out of the car, and I wish that my parents cared enough. It's not that they didn't care. It was, I don't think they knew what to do about it. They didn't do anything. I there's a song from I think Mel Tillis or one of those guys that he sings, if you don't stand for something, you're gonna fall for everything. And my dad fell for everything. He didn't stand up to me not once. He didn't stand up and say, I'm gonna take you to counseling, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, whatever. He just ignored it. So I guess my answer in a long way is I wished he would have stood up and made me look at what I was doing and make me help me change it.
SPEAKER_02So so, in a sense, your dad enabled you to 100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00100%. And I was crave, and I think all boys, and I think girls do too, crave our somebody to tell us what to do. Somebody to hold us accountable to what to do. You know, kids are raising kids, they're not holding each other accountable, they're going for whatever feels the best. You know, you've got all these alcoholic and drug addict parents. They're not holding their kids accountable, they're trying to hide from them.
SPEAKER_02They're trying to not hold themselves accountable, so how are they gonna teach their kids the right thing to do?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So, so I craved having my dad be a man. I used to think he was the weakest little coward, and you know, he was a big dude, but he was a coward. I mean, he would always like do this, and I'd be like, and I'd walk up to him and go like that, and he'd go like this, and I'm like, Dad, you you're such a wimp, you know. And it it just I would have loved to have had a father who stood up. I stood up to my girls. I mean, they're and they're great kids. They're they're doing really well. I didn't put up with bullshit, and I let them know I'm not going to. You are going to act this way, you're going to be this way. When you're an adult, do whatever you want. And so they're both adults now. I don't tell them anything. I don't I'm like, you know, do you need my help? If you need my help, I'm glad to help. But I don't tell them, I don't, I don't parent them. They're they do, they're doing just fine. And I think it's because they they had they knew how they stood, they knew where they stood, they knew what they were supposed to do, and I think they loved it. And I, you know, so I craved I craved it and I didn't have it.
SPEAKER_02And I I'm not saying that parents should be super strict or super lenient, but there's definitely a a spot to to be on that scale where it's not too too strict, but you care about what your kids are doing. You make sure they're on the right path because now that I'm 25 and thinking back to college, middle school, it was always the parents who didn't really care about their kids and what they did, they just kind of let them do whatever are the kids that are screwed up now, you know.
SPEAKER_00Right? And and you're absolutely right. There's a difference between abuse and accountability, you know. Like as a coach, my favorite coaches were the ones that got on my ass so hard and they would ride me. But here's the difference. When I looked at them in the eye, I could tell they cared about me. And they were doing that because they wanted me to do better. And so as a coach, I would do that. Same thing with my daughters. I would always, the first thing I would tell them is, you know, I really love you. And because I love you, this is what I'm going to do. And I'm doing it out of love because I really care about you. That's the difference. If you're going to beat their ass, I mean, I see people on social media say our world needs more ass beaters, and they need, you know, people that no, that doesn't. You know, again, if you follow Jesus, he tells you everything the right way. I mean, you are always leading with love. Always leading with love, always leading with happiness, always leading with positive. Always. There's no need for the negative abuse and that, and that and that damages kids. I was damaged. I mean, I know the abuse that I took was very damaging. Um, and it took me years and years and years and years to get over it and get through it. Um, I could have had a whole different life had I had the right kind of upbringing, as you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02Is it is that a correlation you're seeing with kids you coach or mentor that the poorer the parents treated them the more screwed up they are as kids?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. You can you can just you can see it so easy. They're needy, they're desperate, they're angry, they're uh they don't feel like they're worth a crap. They quit so easy. I mean they get yelled at one time and they quit. You know? But that there's just no like fire in their soul. It's like it's it's been robbed from them. And it's it's really sad. Um I I I'm hopeful, like I tell my daughters, I'm hopeful that there's enough of you guys that are gonna do it right that you can continue to build a future for many, many people and your kids and so forth. You gotta get in good relationships. Uh, you know, if you're not in a good relationship, don't keep waiting for it to get better. Get out, you know. Um find somebody that's that's on your same uh character and your same way of seeing things, um, because then you'll have a happy relationship for a long time. And if you have kids, they're gonna be much more happy and they're gonna be much better. So too many people get into relationships too fast. You know, they look good, they're great in bed, whatever. Those are all fine and good, but if you don't have that character and you don't have the same likes of things, it ain't gonna work. And then those poor kids.
SPEAKER_02And it takes, I feel like it takes pretty quick to figure out what someone's about, you know, within maybe I mean people can kind of fake it a few dates, but after a few months you can kind of tell.
SPEAKER_00Well, I love that there's a book called How to Avoid Dating a Jerk. And it has it has five five basic rules. Rule number one is get to know the person. And you can't get to know somebody in less than six months. An alcoholic cannot drink for six months and they can bare-knuckle it. A bipolar person can keep their bipolar in order for six months, a asshole can be a nice person for six months. You know, so you got to at least six months. Most people are in a serious relationship within the first month or two. The second thing is can you trust them? You know, the the worst thing for a relationship is dishonesty. And if you're if you have an alcoholic problem, most likely you're also dishonest. So though that's a big one. Then the next one is can you rely on the person? If you're sitting at home watching a football game and your girlfriend and she knows you're home watching a football game, and your girlfriend has a flat tire, and she calls you and you don't want to leave the football game to go help her with the flat tire, you can't rely on him. He's a he's a he's a punk. You know, that's done. And then on the fourth one, you make a commitment. Well, once you make that commitment, then you can get physical. Well, unfortunately, the physical is always the first one or two places, and so that's why most people don't realize they're in with people that have all kinds of red flags and are bad for them.
SPEAKER_02For sure. And I love how you said that when you see an alcoholic, they're usually pretty dishonest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Whenever someone, whenever I see someone who, you know, I you hear they cheat a lot, they're alcoholics, they're degenerate gambler, they automatically don't really trust them as much. Like off the bat, you know. Do you see that with the problem?
SPEAKER_00The other the other thing that Alex is being thrown around a lot is narcissism. And that, you know, someone who has an alcoholic problem or a drug problem are almost automatically narcissistic. So they can get sober and work a sober program and they no longer are narcissists. A true narcissist, there's very little help for them. So I think a lot of the people that are being called narcissists in this in today's society is because they have a drinking or drug problem. And that's what's causing the narcissism in the in their the way they deal with people. If they can get sober, you might have a chance. If they don't get sober, you don't have a chance in hell. I mean, I hate to say it, but you know, you're you're not real smart if you decide to stay in a relationship with someone who is either a narcissist or has a drug or alcohol problem.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. And you know, I just speaking of speaking on this, I just thought of one last one last question. What do you think about ego? Why is ego the enemy? I just started reading this book by Ryan Holiday, Ego is the enemy. It is the enemy.
SPEAKER_00And and I'll tell you what what my opinion is on it, and maybe I don't know if it's I haven't read that book, but uh I'd love it if you would tell me if I'm right. Um some people say it's ego e-g-o edging god out. I think what it is, I think it's because if you read the book Um How to Outwit the Devil, phenomenal book. And it basically it talks about what does the devil like? The devil likes lazy people, the devil likes arrogant people, the devil likes narcissistic people, the devil likes alcoholics, all those characteristics that are like not such good characteristics. He loves those. So he loves an arrogant asshole, he loves somebody that's in their ego because there's no humility. And God talks about all the time, he wants humble people that are trying to help the one in 99, they're trying to help the um prostitute at the well. They try to help the people that are transgender, they try to help the people that are having issues that are not the norm. And you have to be humble in order to help those people. And ego edges those people out, edges your humility out, and causes you to be very selfish.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. Well, Glenn, thank you for coming on the show. Is there uh is there anywhere people can find you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, go to my website, uh Glenn2N's Derby D E R B Y. Um, I'm on all the social media uh platforms with this with my name, so it's pretty easy to find me.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Alex. It's been good talking to you.