EP62: Improve Sales from 2x to 10x with Dr Dan Bai

Dr. Dan Bai from Close for Chiro joins me in a Chicago hotel room at 7:45 AM after MasterClass weekend, and we get into one of the most misunderstood topics in our profession: sales.

If the word "sales" makes you cringe, this one's for you. Dan breaks down why so many docs are stuck thinking they have to sell people something they don't want, when the truth is the opposite. Patients are walking through your door already at a yes. You're not closing them on day two. You're either keeping that yes alive or accidentally killing it in the first 45 seconds of day one.

We talk about why your close rate as the owner doesn't matter if your associates can't replicate it, how to train your team to think differently about the patient journey, the difference between being in control of a process versus trying to control an outcome, and the curious tone shift that's changing how patients experience care in a post-COVID, AI-saturated market.

Dan also shares why he doesn't mind getting hate mail in his comments and what it tells him about where the profession is stuck.

If you've ever felt that pit in your stomach when you see a day two on the schedule, hit play.

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Transcript

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This is the Austin Cohen Podcast where we talk real strategies for chiropractors ready to grow beyond the adjustment. If you're building a business, developing your leadership, and trying to build wealth without burning out, you are in the right place. Let's get to work Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Austin Cohen Podcast. I'm here with the man, the myth, the legend, Dr. Dan Bae. Dan, what's up, man? What's up, Austin? Always good. Ah, it's good, man. We are sitting here in my hotel room At 7:45 in the morning in Chicago. Kinda creepy. Dude it is. But there's no other male that I would rather share my room with- No- than you freaking doubt. Although, I did walk in, your shirt was off. It was. Dude, it's... My room was really... It was 73 degrees last night. Yeah. And I was so tired from dinner, I decided not to get up and turn it down, man. So- And for the record, I know you guys are listening, but Austin has a very nice top side. Just want everyone to know. Work... Hey and for those that are here this weekend, they got to be part of run club this morning. Awesome. So we did our run club this morning again. So for those listening that have been to C4C before, MasterClass, we do run club every Saturday morning. Yep. Dude first off I've been to these now, this is maybe number eight I've been to. I learn something new every time. Crazy. Every single time I get something more valuable that I can bring to my team, and obviously all my team has been to this before, which I think is... I've always said this, I always say this, best investment in chiropractic for sure. Cool. What have you been hearing about so far this weekend, man? What's been going through your mind? This one's a little different because I had... I was not here on the first day because my son w- was fighting for a national championship for college golf in Florida. Normally, I would n- would never miss MasterClass, right? But this is his last hurrah and I had to be there. But here's the thing, is what I learned not being here while everything is happening, and I know this is not this might go into a completely different direction, but is that it's amazing when that happens, when you can't actually physical be so- be somewhere you pressure test your systems. You pressure test the people around you. You pressure test what you've actually built till you get to that point, 'cause I'm sure a lot of people that are, listening right now, they're like, if I don't go to, into my practice, I'm done. I'm toast. I can't get anything to work." You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I guess this is a really cool just shout-out to my team, right? Shout-out to team- Absolutely crushed it, by the way. Oh, thank you. Very nice. Absolutely crushed yesterday, and it's cool 'cause you're right the content didn't change. It was a... It was great content. Jen absolutely crushed it yesterday. Dude, it was really good. Awesome. So maybe better that you weren't there. You know what? I'm totally cool with that. Y- in practice, it's like- I know yeah, it's don't want me. Yeah. No, want my associates and want my team people, right? For sure. Who- and it's funny you said that, 'cause when I was young in practice, that was actually my mindset, was when I had an associate, and people were like, "Hey, can I get adjusted by her?" At first I was thinking, "Oh, man, am I that bad?" Oh. Yeah now, please don't wanna see me. Please don't wanna see me. Yeah, no, that- But dude, I think that it's not talked about enough. And there's a lot of things that we could pull apart here. Of course, like one of the first things is that the word sales, right? Yeah. That to me alone is the emotion that is elicited from a t- typical chiropractor, the response that is elicited from them when they hear that word is usually negative- Yeah I would assume. Not the people who have come to this or been through this program. What are some strategies that you have for somebody who's listening to this, they're like, "Oh, I hate that word sales." Before I get into the strategies- Yeah by the way, if y'all follow me on social, what you don't see is the behind the scenes hate mail that I get on the comment section. Okay? And I carefully curate those. And, the hate mail that I'm getting though, Austin, like I, I don't just immediately delete 'cause I'm ashamed. I actually use it as a way to understand like the thread of the other side of the profession, right? And so I got two comments yesterday back to back and they were different usernames, they could have been trolls. It could have been the same person, I don't know. But the comment was, "If you need to sell or market something, you're doing something wrong." So that statement, immediately I'm gonna say in my back of my head you're a fucking idiot." Does that mean that, like American Airlines, as I'm flying yesterday, they have ads and c- commercials everywhere. Are they doing something wrong? Is Amazon doing something wrong because they have to- sell and market? Is... I could go on and on, you know what I'm saying? They're doing great, right? But that comment tells me something. That comment tells me that the other side, and some of you may be listening, is you feel like if your shit is not good enough, you have to compensate by marketing and selling, right? And that is a very antiquated, very old school and very unsophisticated outlook. And I'm gonna say it right now, if you're thinking that way, like you gotta grow the fuck up. Yeah. Like we need to get a clue here because that's not really how it works. You know what I'm saying? My, my mindset back in the days was when I was early in practice, it was probably my first couple years of practice before I came to this, and before I came to this, I would be scared when I would see a day two on the schedule. And I would see, 'cause we color code, it's yellow report of findings, and I would see yellow on the schedule for the next day and in my brain I was already starting to get this emotion of "Oh, I gotta sell this person tomorrow. Oh my gosh." "I don't wanna have to sell. And what if they say no?" And then they would reschedule and I'd be like, "Yes, I have another day to prepare for this." Yeah. Yeah. And it, and I think a lot of that had to do with just lack of confidence for sure. No doubt. Because I didn't have the confidence to go into the day two. Yep. And then when I came through this, I remember coming through this, when I came through this, I took this very seriously. I studied very hard- all the material. I listened to everything you guys said to do. I came up on stage when somebody vol- when you guys asked for a volunteer. And when I showed up on Monday morning for me- The entire business changed Dude, I still remember I still remember Yeah It was at the Drake in Chicago Drake Hotel? Yeah That's right And it was a raised... I still remember that vividly And I remember b- even back in the day I was like, we gotta keep an eye on this guy," because we might not be great at a lot of things, but I'm good at sniffing out talent. Make sense? Yeah So I knew you were gonna be a winner back in the day. Just because of the fact that you knew that you had to do the work. But y'all's stuff has stood the test. N- not too many people in this profession have created something that's still around 10, 11, 12 years later, that's even better than it was when they... most people are obviously copycats in today's world. Yeah or they're usually taking somebody else's stuff. You guys have created something unique, and you've made it better as time has gone on. But what are some things... so yes, Amazon, American Airlines they're selling of course there. And by the way, when I get an Instagram ad for something that I enjoy and I'm interested in- Yeah. I like that. That's right. I don't wanna see crap. That's right. And yet I think you hit the nail on the head, Austin. It's s- sales and marketing is not something that you have to do to get to the transaction, and that's the biggest mind shift we need to have. Sales and marketing is a part of the service or product that you're providing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah it's all encompassed. So for example, the best example I can give you is that if you sell and market, and particularly in, in our world, in sale, you sell properly, what actually happens is they may not actually buy, right? They may not actually commit. It may not be a good fit. But it's funny, after they say no, they still leave good reviews. After they say no, they still refer. How in the world does that happen? It's like you gotta wrap your head around that one for a second. That's because the sales process if you can get over that word, serve them. And that service, I wanna talk about this for a second for all the people out there who would think sales is really cruddy and scammy, all that stuff. S- proper selling is as, isn't brow-beating someone into doing or buying something that they truly don't want, need, or desire, or tricking them, okay? That's called fraud. Yeah And that's called manipulation. That's not what sales is. When you sell properly, what actually it's doing, it's allowing your patients or your s- client or your customer, right? To divulge to you in a safe place what they truly want, need, or desire. And if you have the service or product to match that, then th- there's no obstruction. It just happens. You know what I'm saying? There's nothing that's, that you have to try to do, listen, most people who come into your offices every single day, they're already at a yes, right? For sure. They already at a yes Drove there, filled out paperwork, like- You know the story took the time, yeah You know the story. And we screw it up. We take it from 100 to zero, right? And so it's not the other way around. We're not, they're not coming at in without knowing anything or not wanting anything. D- that's a whole mindset thing, by the way. When you guys shared that with me one time where you said, "They're already coming in as a yes." I used to think that they were coming as a no and I had to sell them in the day two. Yes. But I didn't realize that the day one was actually the most important visit, and I was- Yeah think I was screwing it up there because what I would do is I think it wasn't as important, so I'd rush through it. And I'd be like, "I just gotta get to day two-" Exactly 'cause I'm gonna close them on the day two. Exactly. Completely wrong mentality. Yeah, 100%. And everyone listening right now, what's Austin just said is absolutely critical. If you're having closing problems and you're having people not committing to your best recommendations, do not look at the day two, right? It's a day one, all right? The rookies and the unsophisticons, is that a word? The people who don't know what they're doing, they think it's the l- the final line that you say at the end to get them to say, "Yes, here's my money," et cetera, right? It's not. The yes emotionally happens, oh my God, it used to be in the first minute or 90 seconds. Dude, it's now in the first 45 seconds. Yes. You have that little time up front to get them to say, "Oh, this Austin guy, I kinda like him." "He kinda knows what he's doing. He seems to be an expert, and he seems to care, and he's a actually a human being." That determination needs to happen in the first 30 seconds to 45 seconds. N- if you don't, then it's a uphill climb, right? As opposed to just letting things fall as they may. And I remember learning so many of these concepts from you, and then you start to see it out in the marketplace. I remember going to one of my functional doctors and she was sharing with me everything that was going on with my body. She was talking about blood work, and she's basically telling me things that I want to hear, longevity, health optimization, using words that... And I felt confidence of her. She had... I'm gonna live to 100 years old if I listen to her. Yep. It didn't matter what she said to me on the second visit. Yes. And I didn't care how much it cost. I was so bought in on that first visit that I felt the confidence, the technology, all the objective testing, the language- the experience, everything was great. Didn't matter what she said on day two, where my old self would've focused so much on the day two rather than- Yeah day one. And so I think put- from a leadership perspective, for every doctor that's listening to this right now who's thinking in their head, yes, they are coming in as a yes, take that, but train your team that too as well. Oh, no doubt about it. And that's like leadership 205, whatever. You- yeah you don't just... You, if you have that belief system, then it's like how do we train our team now to also think in a staff meeting, "Hey guys, when they come in here, they're coming as a yes. If they say no, we screwed up somewhere and we need to start finding these bottlenecks and fix it, but I want everyone to have this new philosophy and- Yeah practice." And you know what? The whole leadership paradigm in chiropractic, there I'm gonna give you a lot of credit for that because there's very few people in our profession right now that's not just teaching the nuts and bolts, right? We're nuts and bolts people. Yeah. And so when I s- meet guys like you who are taking that leadership principle and trying to infuse that into their entire profession, kudos. Number two is that even this weekend, 'cause we're in Chicago on our second season there's a lot of support. There are associates in the room, there's case managers, they're not just doctors, which I love seeing because that tells me that they're growth-minded. Make sense? 'Cause you don't invest in your CAs or your associates and s- et cetera... My associates here. Make sense? Yeah. Unless- They know that this is going to pay dividends in their own practices in the future. That's a big, that's a big difference. I'm saying that because I don't want, I... A lot of people that are listening to get into a situation where desperation sets in. You know how that- Yeah what that's like. It's a tough grind. You can't make a move, and you're just paralyzed. I think that's probably the biggest cancer in our profession. We have too many docs that are in desperation mode and you know how it goes. If you're not... If you're in fight or flight, you ain't gonna learn anything, no, and they're making decisions based on emotion. Now, the associates that were here yesterday, and the case managers, they were in it. Yeah. They weren't just here physically. They were here all in, by the way, which to me really is a testament to the doctors that invested in them to be here. Yeah. Because that is gonna b- first off, pay massive dividends, but also shows me the in- the leadership that they've built for their team- to also be bought into the mission and the vision of the practice, which is very rare in our profession. It is. Because an associate lifespan is probably around 24 to 36 months, is my guess. Two to three years. And then they move on. Yeah. Where they could build careers with these practices with the right leadership. 100%. And that's, the num- That's... You're right, and that's the one thing I'm really trying to teach right now as a professional. Oh, yeah. And you've a- absolutely figured that one out. If anyone who follows what you're doing right now, is it's a unicorn. What are some, You wanna give us a couple tactical things real quick? Sure, yeah. Some takeaway things. So tactically the biggest thing is, number one always be in control, but never controlling. So if you're in control of, let's say, a day one what you're doing is you're controlling a process, right? As opposed to controlling, you're trying to not do a process, you're trying to force a, an outcome. Can you give me an example of this? All right. I'll give you a sports example. Okay. Okay. So I know your kids play baseball, right? Yeah. All right. And my kid just finished his college golf career, and I watch this in the sports, is if you look at any high-level athlete, right? They are all about the process and approach. Process and approach. The scoreboard is just a side effect. You ask any athlete, "Hey, look at the scoreboard and try to make the score," they're gonna, they're gonna have issues. However, if they're looking at a pr- their own process, their approach, right? And how they execute, and their attitude, right? Then everything falls into place. I can give you many examples of any, every athlete out there. Yeah. In chiropractic, would you say that in controlling in the exam would be you saying to me something of, "Yeah, my my back really hurts." People are always like, "Oh, does it hurt so bad, like you can't pick up your kids?" And they're like, "No." They're like what about when you sleep at night?" Yeah. "It hurts then, right?" Yeah. "No, it doesn't hurt that bad then." Yeah. But if you don't, then you could see how it could turn to surgery, right?" "No, I don't..." Yeah, it's so bad. Is that what you mean, or...? Yes. Okay. That's exactly what I mean. Or over-educating. That's a form of scoreboard watching, right? Yeah. Or what they think is objection management, like what you just said, right? Or leading the witness is a common thing that we're seeing. These are all things that untrained salespeople are doing to get someone to say yes, instead of following a process and approach. So I had to start there. Now tactically, okay, on a day one, I'll give you two things. Number one, have your questions that you're asking on a day one processed, right? What questions first, what questions next. That way you have a framework, and that's really important, not just for it to get clinical information from the patient, but also gives the doctors a framework, a process to focus on instead of looking at the scoreboard. Make sense? Yeah. If they're following a process, that's what we need to do. Number two, tone. On day one it- it's changed a lot post-COVID market. But I hate saying COVID, but post-COVID, the marketplace has changed. The thing that gets most people to trust what the doctor or any salesperson is saying or doing is curious tone. Your job on day one is to exude enormous curiosity. "Hey, Austin, I'm just curious. When you have that thing on the right side of your neck, I'm just curious, is it just on that side? Does it travel down? Clarify that for me. I need a little bit more. Walk me through that one for a second." And then STFU, right? Yeah. And let them what's the word? Satisfy the doctor's curiosity. No doctor's ever listened to me before. Exactly. Wow. Such a pattern interrupt. Yeah. Especially in today's healthcare market. For sure. You know how it is. It's like- Oh, now they're using AI too. Ex- exactly. Oh, don't get me started on AI. Yeah. AI is the best thing that happened to us. Yeah. I'll tell you why, because the more AI and more automation that we're seeing, the more the human frame is in a bull market. Make sense? Yeah. So which is why this is even more important now. I'm just telling you, I, I- No, that's- I saw the writing on the wall. It's crazy. The you know what's interesting is, and let's g- this is gonna pull in some leadership too as well, 'cause this is... I talk to people all the time, some of my coaching clients, and they'll say things such as, "My close rate's already 90-plus percent." Why would I go?" Sometimes it's not about you. Yeah. And what is your associate's close rate? They're like they're like, 50, 55%." Exactly. Exactly. Just 'cause you can you ha- you don't have a system. Yeah, I get you can go in and maybe get a day two, but dude, build a... If you wanna build, like we were saying earlier, right? Like, where you have your team in here yesterday it worked. You tested it. It was pressure tested. Yeah. If that doctor leaves, is their close rate gonna drop then to 50, 60%? Of course it is. Of course. This is where you guys are our system. We obviously have our SOPs. Our day one, day two SOP, C4C. Yeah. Crazy. And it's been like that for 12 years- Yeah. It's fucking crazy by the way, in our company. So which is amazing. And by the way- Yeah that's why you're no accident, man. Yeah. I mean- If you did that with that, you did that- Yeah with other things, right? For sure. Yeah, and you did one thing at a time. That's exactly right. Oh, this can go on complete... I'm gonna have to come back on, on this topic because- it's and here's the thing, it's, is the docs out there who are, like, they're trying to scale or build or even in desperation mode you have a million levers that you could pull. You know what I'm saying? A million levers. I'm an inherently lazy guy. Give me the biggest lever to pull right now to give me the biggest return. Let me f- pick a goal and kick the shit out of it, and then once it's done where I don't have to think about it, it's happening automatically, then move to the next one. Oh my God. Isn't this another sports analogy? Whatever. You gotta, hey, how to catch the ball, how to throw the ball. You... One goal and kick the shit out of it, and you layer those skills over a career. Yeah. There's the art form, people always, and even yesterday I had some people, 'cause ye- you know, yesterday I was... When I got to speak to the group- Yeah and talking about retention, and it's always interesting how so many people there say, "Oh, man, I could never get to that point." I didn't get here overnight. No. Right? It started with, yeah coming to you guys. I took y'all's day one, day two process, and that became our entire sales... That is our SOP- for our day one, day two experience, and then we also... What's good about you guys is we can take that language and apply that to also re-exams. Re-exams- Love that reports, visit to visit. That's a language what you guys have built. And so then, yeah, of course then we had to go into the next pieces of the funnel. With the mar- whatever it was. So didn't happen overnight, man. No, man. A to B, not A to Z. No, man. But people always... it's interesting, in our profession, people are always comparing their chapter two to somebody's chapter 20. Yeah. You gotta go through the threes, the fours- Yeah the fives and the sixes- Yeah in order to get to that level, man. Age appropriate, man. 100%. Age appropriate. So good. The man, I'm grateful for you guys, so thank you for what you guys have done for me, the profession. A lot of my clients have worked with you guys before. So what's the best... So for anybody who wants to connect with you guys and reach out, what... You, I know you got social media for sure. Yep. Real Close for Chiro? Yep. That's my social. That's your social? That's my Instagram, yep. Instagram. Your newsletter to me is the second-best newsletter- in our profession. Yes. Behind the all, behind President Joy Austin Cone Newsletter dot- Yeah. There you go. How do people subscribe to that, though? They just have to- I'll put the links in below. Yeah. The link is... I'll send you the link, but it's an easy opt-in. And, and the newsletter has been a kind of passion project of mine. It's like my, who, who needs a therapist when I can just bang on the keyboard? It's so good. It actually... Your, mine's like every Friday. I never know when I'm gonna get yours. Yeah. But whenever I get yours, it's always at the right time of what I need to hear in that moment. It's crazy. And it's short. Yeah. It's perfect. And the other thing is anybody who's interested, they would book a sales c- they would book a call with you guys. Yeah, so- Intro call, discovery call. Is that what- Yeah. No one can sign up unless we talk to them first. Love that. Because that's the way we roll. We need to know some intel behind the scenes so we can customize the experience for that person instead of buying a, quote, "ticket" and then sitting in the back of a holiday room with really bad coffee and questionable eggs. You know what I'm saying? Dude, love it. Thanks again for doing this. Anything else you wanna share? Nah, bro. Thanks for having me. You're the best, dude. No, you're the best. Always good seeing you, man. Awesome. Thanks, Austin. Later, man To learn more about building your business, leadership, and life on purpose, visit chiro one eighty.com or follow Austin on Instagram at Dr. Austin Cohen.