Responsible whale watching with Futurismo 🐳

What does responsible whale watching actually require? 🤓

Some whale watching experiences look effortless. 

But behind the scenes, the most responsible ones are built on science, discipline, and deep respect for the ocean. 🐳 

In this episode of Sustainable Today, Successful Tomorrow, Carlos from Futurismo Azores Adventures takes us inside a science-led decisions approach that guides every decision on the water.

Rather than chasing close encounters, Futurismo relies on behaviour reading, strict regulations, and ongoing research. 👨‍🔬

We talk about how data collection, marine science, and experienced guiding can turn a simple sighting into a moment of learning. 

It’s a look at whale watching done thoughtfully: where excitement and ethics work together.  🙌

If you want to see what responsible marine tourism looks truly like in practice, this episode is for you. 🎧

How well are you communicating sustainability? Apply for our free Sustainable Marketing Scan 👇
https://goodtourisminstitute.com/scan/ 

Transcript

Anne: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Sustainable Today. Successful tomorrow where we explore real world sustainable tourism stories that actually work. In our last discussion episode, we already shared a few highlights for my interview with Carlos, director of Marketing and Impact at Futurismo Azores Adventures. A responsible wheel watching company, including wildlife and research.

Anne: First today I'm excited to bring you the full interview. Carlos and I talked about what it takes to offer responsible wheel, watching experiences, how to support scientific research and manage traveler expectations. It was such an interesting conversation, and I hope it inspires you as much as it inspired me.

Anne: I hope you enjoy.

Anne: Marine wildlife watching is a jaw dropping experience and a highlight for many travelers. [00:01:00] But how do you successfully combine responsible wildlife watching research and the travel experience of a lifetime? That's what we are exploring with Carlos from Futurism Israel. Azure's Adventures. ESMO is a family owned company with a clear purpose responsible will watching in the Azures with over 30 years of experience, a fleet of modern vessels and marine biologists on board, they guarantee unforgettable encounters with wills and dolphins while following strict guidelines for responsible observation and scientific research.

Anne: So Carlos, thank you so much for being here, and let's dive in right away with the following question. If there's one thing you wish the tourism industry understood about what it really takes to offer responsible will watch experiences, what would that be?

Carlos: For, for the invitation. Uh, I think, you know, Culture, basically. I think culture is the word. We do responsible, well watching because there's definitely a culture within the [00:02:00] company, within the founders. And I think it goes back all the way to even before 1990 when FU was,founded.

Carlos: And they grew up, in Fa Island and then in different islands of the Azos. But they would go along, the Arbors, they would meet the whalers, they would meet the fishermen. And I think, this idea of transitioning and I think what whale watching is.

Carlos: Above anything else is a metamorphosis of the relation that we have with sedation. So these guys, they saw, you know, whale hunting. They saw what was done, and they did the transition to whale watching. They, you know, of course they didn't do anything right in the beginning.

Carlos: you know, all the things that people nowadays think about sustainability probably were not done in the beginning. But there was this huge passion for the animals, but also for the whale hunting [00:03:00] culture. it is important not to neglect that whale watching comes from whale hunting. And, we are very proud of that at food tradition because we helped actually,our, community shift and theorum shifted, changed it really quickly.

Carlos: So I know, I think it's culture. Cultural is the word. You know, it's this, the passion for your land is the stewardship for your culture and the love for the animals. I think that's the, I would say it's the key element or of responsible while watching.

Anne: That sounds really good. So really rooted in, where you come from and how you run your business. Oh, that's really interesting. And what do you feel, um, Fumo does differently compared to other marine wildlife watchers? So both in the Azures but also worldwide.

Carlos: I think, you know, being a family owned company and, having this background, I think we basically integrate, different things. So we don't do tourism. We do then, science, and then we do [00:04:00] education, and then we do cultural, no, we basically have an integrated model and we combine every single thing in every single day.

Carlos: So basically tourism every single day meets science, meets culture, meets education. So I think it is a very important thing, the way it is designed. So, everything that we do, even before people arrive to the, and it is always important to, to understand that as a well watching company, you are not just going along with the clients during the participation phase of an experience.

Carlos: So we actually prepare way in advance, during the anticipation phase of every single experience to the azos. Our website is currently the second largest visit in the Azos just after visit to switch. We have a huge database of scientific research, that we share online. So in our blogs, if you go to our website, we'll see all the fact sheets about every [00:05:00] single animal.

Carlos: when you are going through the fact sheets, you're also seeing all the master thesis posts, all scientific articles that our research has, given place to. And I think, you know, this integrates daily because we don't have guides, we don't have marine biologists, we don't have sailors. We actually have, marine biologists are sailors and guides.

Carlos: So it's, you know, it's all in one. And they're actually quite passionate for what they do. But when they're running you through a whale watching experience, they're also conducting research. And it's not, you know, research that you don't. Why it's being used to. No, actually, for instance, we, we have now Margarita doing her PhD.

Carlos: when she's going out and you are, we are recording sounds, et cetera, all of that is being used to Margarita when we're doing, something with dolphins, it's being used for Catarina, master [00:06:00] thesis. So, you know, there's something that connects them daily and you, I think you can see that in their eyes, you know, when they really happy you, you see that.

Carlos: And we try to prepare in advance through all the things we do. Even, something that we play along. We only have three to be honest, but know it's something that we want more, which is fu guidebook. It's like short YouTube clips in which we, explain people how to driving thes, how to be a responsible hiker, how to save a co water, which is a very important bird for us here.

Carlos: So. All of these things combined, they integrate a model that does not think in boxes. No, we don't do it. It's all the same for us. 

Carlos: How well are you actually communicating sustainability? We see many travel businesses and destinations working hard, yet they still struggle to talk about it, and maybe you feel the same. You're afraid of being seen as greenwashing, [00:07:00] unsure what to share, or just not really connecting with your travelers.

Anne: We've been there with a lot of travel brands and we get how frustrating it is. So with years of experience in sustainable tourism and marketing, we've created something simple to get you started. It's called the Sustainable Marketing Scan. You just answer a few quick questions. We'll take a look, and if it's a good fit, we'll invite you for a short call to go through your opportunities.

Anne: You can start today@goodtourisminstitute.com slash scam and turn uncertainty into a clear, compelling story.

Carlos: And also I think it's also very important to say that. Having marine biologists is not something that is a nice to have for us. No, it is something that is highly foundational for us. it's not that anyone is more important than anyone in the company. That's not the idea I want to give here.

Carlos: For instance, we have our lookouts, which are the guys that spot the [00:08:00] whales. You know, we have our skippers, which of course are really hard to find someone that can navigate the boats we have the way they do. But having the marine biologists is quite important because it's bringing science to your daily life, but also picking up these young kids.

Carlos: Some of them just, you know, fresh out of college. They do their internships, they grow with us and our, you know, all that they wanna do in the world. you kind of feel it. So, it actually improves the experience that you are giving because you know, you're giving more, credible information from persons that have studied, that studied that continuously, during winter time they go to school.

Carlos: So basically they're always refreshing what they're, treating about with you. So I think that's quite important. Then, you know, not directly, in our day-to-day live, but we actually created, when we designed our purpose, vision, [00:09:00] mission, 

Carlos: We actually define three pillars, which are people, planet, and wildlife. And why did we do it? 

Carlos: one of the owners actually told me, when you, we do it by heart, we don't have to say anyone. And that was our major discussion because the idea was no. If we are doing it correctly, we should show properly in a way that we can also, you know, create a good impact and show others that there is a path that can be done.

Carlos: So the idea then is how, you know, how do we do it in a way that is not like showing off? and you know, so it actually took us two years to get to this. Idea. So nowadays, if you go to our website and their projects, you'll see people, planet, wildlife, every single one of them has three words associated with, so, people has to do, for instance, with aida, which is the feeling of being gian culture and dedication.

Carlos: So under [00:10:00] that, pillar, you have different projects like scholarships for the University of the Azos, which are kind of different. So it's, we pay the tuition plus mentorship across your degree. you have the whaling boats, construction, the documentaries, all of that now fits. So, every single day that we're doing different projects, they are getting fit in these, pillars.

Carlos: And I think it also helps us, you know, becoming more and more credible.

Anne: Yeah, exactly. And then specifically on, or the scientific research, you combine it with whale watching obviously, but how does this partnership work in foxes? Do you only work with students or do you also have marine biologists? like in, on place full-time that are doing actual research?

Anne: You do.

Carlos: no. we have, I, we should have one of the largest marine biologists teams in, in, in whale watching in the world. I suppose we have more than 15 of them. yeah, most of them are, in full tenure in the company. [00:11:00] So just to give you an idea, we do, we did our, internal materiality analysis one and a half years ago.

Carlos: We had 67.7% with higher degree education. In a total of 65 persons full-time. So as a policy of the company, we, employ our staff year round, with full tenure. If you go to, to see the purpose of this company is to work for the betterment of tourism in the azos and tools are in prosperity.

Carlos: So, you know, you, you cannot say this and not employ year round person. So everyone in the company is employed. Of course, we have seasonal workers that come every six months 

Carlos: but some of them are people that actually choose to live like this. They go to United States, they go to Iceland. you know, some of them would love to have with us throughout the year because we actually cannot work a vision if you don't have the people and you know, it goes above and beyond that we actually know, we're planning to [00:12:00] have a baby, you know, who's buying a house?

Carlos: You know, you cannot

Anne: connections.

Carlos: Yeah. you cannot do what we do for 35 years, deeply implemented in a sense of place. What is the azer and being a zian without taking care of your own first. So that's for us. 

Carlos: There is no point in saying we're perfect, we're not. but I think we're highly purpose driven and I think they feel that. 

Carlos: So tourism, and this is the thing, tourism does not serve science. Tourism helps science and science helps tourism. So it is something that people quite a lot confuse on the integration of whale watching. And science. And science said, we're watching it is not. Despite being a tourism company, we do science.

Carlos: No, it is because we're a tourism company, we do science. And I think it's quite important to value this because a lot of, tourism companies in whale watching do a, an amazing work [00:13:00] on research and not often they're like almost considered like a supplier of data and not real scientists. So we have a real scientists in-house and we connect with universities, research centers all across the world.

Carlos: But science begins in the tourism company and I think this is really important.

Anne: yeah, exactly. And then, well of course you are a tourism company. So how do you involve guests in your, research? How does this work?

Carlos: Oh, that's the thing that I, I, it's harder to do, and. So there are guests, and there are guests. We have something called be a marine biologist for a day in which you can be with the team. So you go whale watching, and then you do different, activities, games with sounds, with, you know, photo id.

Carlos: that one is really, really, I would say the most, immersive experience that you can have.

Carlos: [00:14:00] Then. We have, coastal cleanups that we do, um, monthly during, uh, winter time, and we actually invite our community to do that. And of course also tourists that are here. We actually designed a program called Gardens of das.

Carlos: for that this year we pledged, it was 14 tourism companies and it was 92 or 94,000 euros of commercial value and experiences for our community. So it's actually something, it was the first Portuguese award that the World CarVal Market Responsible Awards couple of years ago, and it was actually designed by me for my son.

Carlos: So it's, you know, again, everything in food tradition tends to have, a deeper meaning because it was one of us that did that. In this case it was, which is, uh, the operational director. It was designed for my son, but actually also for, uh, my colleagues Anna, son and my former colleague, Reina daughter.

Carlos: So they were playing along, you know, picking up [00:15:00] garbage, and we were looking at that and like, we could do something here. So we actually designed that and people can join that. 

Carlos: So we wanna do that in whale watching. There's different ideas, I think. When when you are going out looking for the whales, you are actually quite immersed.

Carlos: You know, you are in the flow because you are looking with, our team. And I think naturally you become, you become immersed and you are within the flow of the experience. Unless, of course, and people forget this, we are the North Atlantic, so you cannot be in the state of flow if you are csic, which actually happens quite a lot.

Carlos: And so, you know, people, sometimes they neglect this small detail, which is North Atlantic waves. Of course we, we prepare that, but at the end of the day, it's adventure travel. It's a going to a park, you're going to the wild ocean. I think. That's actually what makes also people, more thrilled about it.[00:16:00] 

Carlos: So it's, we have done in the past different experiences, but for instance, if you are getting cystic, if we give you like a smartphone or a recording device for you to record the number of animals, et cetera, if you are looking to the screen, you're

Anne: you got sick.

Carlos: more physic. So we have been trying to, to see how this can work, better because also we want to avoid paper.

Carlos: So that's one of the things, not just because of paper. Also because of paper. Actually nowadays when you do our,check in our, at our store, you don't get like a paper tag. you get like a wooden tag with the boat, the name that was done by a local artisan. So actually have hundreds of them for the boats.

Carlos: And so the paper is gone in that way. Imagine that you're registering things in paper, in the boat, and the paper just starts flying to the ocean.

Anne: Yeah, it gets we, yeah.

Carlos: yeah, and you know, it's all of this [00:17:00] that we need to be careful. we have think about apps about different things, but at the end of the day it's, you know, we have to do things slowly.

Carlos: So it, it's bringing people together during the briefing. So in the anticipation phase of the experience, we send information to the persons, to every single guest during the participation. It starts out with the briefing, safety, briefing, expectation. Expectation, just management. It's quite important.

Carlos: So for instance, I told you that we have fact sheets for every single species of citations that go through gazers, and we actually have. the swimming and diving profile of every single animal that was actually designed by Georgina, you know, personal opinion, but one of our most special marine biologists is Spanish.

Carlos: She is an artist and a marine biologist. And we actually asked her if she wanted to do that because it makes way more sense [00:18:00] instead of going to a book to have this design by someone that daily sees them. So why did we did that? We want people to understand that, well, watching is actually not going to a circus.

Carlos: You won't see the full whale. You won't see no whale. The whale spinning just for you. No, it's not the way it works. And we make sure to say this to the, the public. Of course you can ask me, does everyone go to that specific page? Of course not. It's, we have a massive website. We have 130,000 visits a month, which is quite good.

Carlos: We have, last time we checked 11% went to sustainability projects, which is of course quite interesting. We're talking about at least 10,000 persons a month that at least click there. And that I think we can actually, touch people with. And during the briefing, again, we do that, expectation management.

Carlos: and we have [00:19:00] a clear policy, which is if we don't see citations often or whales, we actually give another tour, for

Anne: Yeah, because I was wanna, I was asking, yeah. Do you offer guaranteed, sightings, but you do them because you offer

Carlos: yeah. we have a success rate of roughly 98%. So, and why is that? Because we only go out when the lookouts, which are, in the island. So the lookouts that we use are actually the system of lookouts, of the whale hunting. Some of them are, I think we still have one or two that are alive and working on this.

Carlos: but you know, nowadays, for us it's a younger generation and our head lookout, Roberto actually learned with, uh, a lookout from whale hunting. And our first lookout was actually,a former whaler also. And we have, we had actually different, people working at Sudi that were whalers and they transformed to whale [00:20:00] watchers.

Carlos: So, when we go out, these guys already spotted something. Of course, from the time you go out. To the time that you get there, they can have disappeared. Of course, they're wild animals. We don't lure them with anything. Then we have, of course, hydrophones that we try to use to, to get to them. And we have different boats.

Carlos: So the way we actually, also work is we have, roughly seven boats, eight boats in the south coast, and they all go out in different, times because we don't want to overcrowd the animals and we don't want also to overcrowd the check-in. So we always have like a zodiac and the, cattlemen going first, half an hour later goes the second wave, third wave, fourth wave.

Carlos: And so when the first arrives, he sees the animals and the exits to allow the others to enter. So the animal has two boats, from our side there, but they also tells the others that are [00:21:00] coming. So the animal is going, you know. A swimming west or south or north. And so between the lookouts, the hydrophones and the boats, we try to communicate and we have actually videos of them.

Carlos: They know, the animals quite well, that actually we have one of our marine biologists ish just showing off to the guests and he is like this. And he is like, what, like 3, 2, 1. And you see a bridge, a sperm whale just ing just be just behind his finger and the guy's laughing. So, you know, these guys work daily and they're quite passionate.

Carlos: So it's this mix of scientific data, cultural background with the lookouts and expertise that makes this a success. So that's why it happens.

Anne: yeah. Good. And then you said you have a limit number of two boats, per group of pot of wheels that you spot, but then that's for your company only. So how does it work [00:22:00] with competitors, in the same bay, for example?

Carlos: So in, in the AARs,the law of Achi is actually quite robust, quite good. So we, it's, I can arguably say it's one of the best in the world because it was done following some really great examples all across the world. And again, during our briefing and in our website, we also have videos, diagrams that show guests how we can approach and we actually ask the guests to, and we empower them to see what we're doing for them to fully understand.

Carlos: and if you are thinking, okay, but this way they can also actually police you and complain about you. Yes, they can. That's the idea. That's actually the idea. most whale watching companies here will respect all the rules. they can hate each other in land, but in sea, they will try to make the best,to respect each other, [00:23:00] to respect the animals above and beyond.

Carlos: that's, I think it's something that happens here. Of course, we have more, there's example, two examples that probably are not doing this, but the full, force of them are doing, and we have in some Miguel 2022 boat slices. There can be no more,than these boats. So this actually also helps and companies try to scatter themselves through the south, the north.

Carlos: We have a boat there, throughout, the summertime. But the north is more ruthless in terms of second missions. it's an amazing place for sperm whales especially. But, it, it's trickier to go, out on the north and clients, it's always the same question. Oh, but if the north is better for sperm whales, why don't we go?

Carlos: Yeah. Because the sea conditions are hard to ha to handle. To this day, as workers like Marine, which is our head, skipper Marine works on the [00:24:00] company for 25 years. So when this guy says The sea is not worth it today. Yeah,

Anne: is not. Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of, yeah, so what kind of travelers do you attract? So is it very, diverse or is it really specific, adventurous or,

Carlos: it's completely diverse. it's completely diverse and in all honesty, we wanted to be like that because the first time we launched a Catamaran in the Azos, we were the first and it was around 2010 and whale watching was done specifically in Zodiacs. And people were like, oh, you know, big catamarans.

Carlos: And you know, our big catamaran is 64 seats. It's a 16 meter wall catamaran. but we, introduced, catamarans for a very simple reason. We wanted to democratize whale watching.

Carlos: So think about ribs. If you are [00:25:00] pregnant, you cannot go. If you're a very small child, you cannot go. If you're in a wheelchair, you cannot go. If you have back problems, you cannot go. If you are elderly, you cannot go. and if I have a small boat, I cannot help my community. So think about catamarans right now.

Carlos: So you can have wheel chairs, which actually are really hard to put there. But, you know, we try to,

Anne: can, yeah.

Carlos: you can with a lot of physical effort from the staff, you can take. People with back problems. We, you can take pregnant women, you can take schools. We, last year we gave 32,000 euros on tickets and hours for projects.

Carlos: And actually during July, August, June, September, we're always taking small groups of local children. we're taking vulnerable, audiences from our community.

Carlos: because at the end of the day, if we have [00:26:00] 76 seats and if we give 15 of them to our community, you can still make money that. Helps you. And you know, at the end of the day, if you don't make money, you cannot support this infrastructure. But it allows you to gain some scale that you can maximize what you're doing.

Carlos: And even, you know, the idea of of of value NDAs or so whale watching for us next year will be 70 euros. And we have 28 species of citations going by. you go to Iceland, you go to Norway, and the prices are way better than this for the local companies. They make double, triple what we do. so, and at the end of the day, you know, we are a great example.

Carlos: And sometimes we, we think small because we're islanders, we're here in the middle. There's that's a thing for us. And I think one of the things that Ion has been trying to do is not to think small is to [00:27:00] go after things, is to try and prove not the world, but the Ians that we can be really good example worldwide.

Carlos: So

Anne: And you are that.

Carlos: I think we are,

Carlos: So getting back to the client so we can have a guy that just comes here and wants the cheaper price for a whale watching tour. 

Carlos: He doesn't care. He wants to see a tail. That's it. and we have, royal families, for instance, which, you know, uh, they want full privacy.

Carlos: So from all of this and all of these types of, of, of clients, you know, the guy that just went to see a tale, whatever the royal family, the rich, customers, the normal clients, the multi-gen clients, the Portuguese, the Americans, the Canadians, the, the Saudi, the Japanese, we, we've got it all.

Carlos: Nothing changes in a way that you should act. You [00:28:00] teach them not, you know, you don't teach them. About the whales alone. You don't teach them about just the journey from whaling to conservation. You actually teach them, or you try to teach them the deeper meaning of what is happening right there. You try to teach them the intrinsic value of the those animals.

Carlos: You try to teach them what they do for us humanity, you know, if you wanna play with them and it's something I like to do, you teach them for ais or you try to explain that they are not something you're seeing that actually your mentors in this al journey that I was talking about. So what guides is a, is a mentor, but why not whale?

Carlos: Also, if you think of all about, for instance, the vagal system, uh, nerve nervous system, which is something that all mammals have that just regulates our energy, makes us. Living community. So you see that [00:29:00] in the mammals, in the whales, in the dolphins. You're seeing them playing with each other and it is impossible not to feel, you know, like, oh, and you feel that and why not?

Carlos: They're not an attraction. They're the mentors that help us change you. So at the end of the day, I think that's the most important thing that Tumu has understood for years and years, which is our mission. We don't pledge transformation. We try to guide them, you know, we can do better still. But I think if you go to our reviews, what makes us happier, it's a lot of them will have the marine biologists and the skipper's names.

Carlos: They will express emotions and. It, it is something funny that it happens. We actually have a system to collect reviews. We could do way better, to be honest. It's what it is. but we actually [00:30:00] have a system in place and it is done post participation. So in the reflection phase of this experience, so anticipation, participation, reflection, we have mapped all of that, of course.

Carlos: And, we actually send them in the reflection phase that we want to improve. And it is funny when we say that we will send the number of reviews, it's smaller when we surprise them, is actually higher. So for years and years, we have been trying to, you know, to fight the way to get to people. we, we are not doing everything correctly, but I think we're doing something correct.

Anne: Yeah, no, that sounds really good. I think the whole, uh, self of aligning your stories that you make everything really, personal so that you have, personal connections with your staff, but also personal connections with your travelers and that, but because you doing everything from the heart, from your passion that, yeah, that sounds like a really great [00:31:00] company.

Anne: but specifically on the, we watching operations, we kind of skipped on it a little bit before, but you mentioned that the Azures have, very clear, we watching guidelines, but we all know that we watching can be controversial if done poorly. So what are, for you, the key guidelines you follow to ensure that the tours are, uh, responsible?

Carlos: it is not just us, it, it's thes, the company. So, there's, uh, approaches zone that you can, follow. So if the animal is going like this, you can just approach from here. You have to abate this very, very strictly. If the animal comes to you, you have to, stop the boat. You cannot be moving with the animal.

Carlos: We have to stay, as you know, it's in the ocean. You have to stay as still as you can, you cannot make a lot of noise. you cannot chase them. You cannot separate or isolate, a [00:32:00] single individual, especially if it is like calls for the adults. you cannot swim with whales.

Carlos: You can still use, you can still swim with dolphins. I'll get back to this. You cannot use, sonars. You cannot do night observation, in the approach. You have to keep, like, I think it's a roughly 160 degrees free area. You cannot, Change direction really quick. You cannot exceed the speed of the animals.

Carlos: you can not reverse the engine suddenly. so you know, you cannot be closer than 50 meters the most. So all of this has to be done. So going back to swimming with dolphins is allowed in azos and strict conditions. We can only put two persons in the water at the time, et cetera.

Carlos: And we used to do that until two, three years ago. So I have a postgraduate and environmental ethics, for instance, in all the marine nstitute we have, there is no study, [00:33:00] in Thes about the impact. And that was for us, the problem. So we used to do, we actually, if you went the pages now down, but if you went to, well watch to swimming with Dolphin space in our, website.

Carlos: We had something like, animals are the most important. Marine biology is coming in. Second, you, the customer are the least important per the least important. We actually had this, and people would book, book, book, book, even at 100 euros, way more expensive than whale watching. And why did we stopped first we even, so we could not control the behavior of persons.

Carlos: So because it was not like, okay, you are going swimming with dolphins and you really want to slap in the water and the noises. It was not because of that. It was because you would really get emotional and people could not control that and we could not control that. So, yeah, you know, good excitement.

Carlos: Not like I would ride the animal. Not like [00:34:00] that because in all honesty, you cannot touch the animal. you cannot,it's impossible. You know, honesty, you know, they're huge. They're fast. So, and you know, it's swimming with dolphins, but it is like more floating with dolphins because you cannot even actively go towards the animal.

Carlos: We forbid that. So, but you could control people behavior and there was no,credible studies. So roughly two, three years ago, we took the decision to stop swimming with dolphins. because of that, it is still done in the by one, two companies. They try to do the best they can. In all honesty,it's a choice.

Carlos: It's legal,in the azos. but, in terms of approach to whales during whale watching, you cannot swim with them. And the rules are very strict. 

Anne: it kind of surprises me that the Azures has such strict rules for the wheels, but then swimming with dolphins is still allowed. Do you know why that is? Why they distinguish.

Carlos: it's, you know, different animals, they're quite different, dolphins, [00:35:00] depending, they come to you, they like to play, et cetera. The question then becomes distress if it is too much. so that's why we stop that, because sometimes even to go and try to put people to swim, you have to speed up the boat a little.

Carlos: But at the end of the day, every person that went swimming with, dolphins would come back. A transformed person, you know, the impact on the, your vision of the world is amazing. Because it's not a park. You go to the ocean, you are slapped in by waves, the animals in the water. The an, the dolphin does whatever it wants to you.

Carlos: It's, you know, you are not in control. 

Carlos: You can really create ambassadors for the ocean, but it's all the rest that you cannot control. So that's why we stopped.

Anne: Yeah. That sounds like a solid decision. I think that's, what's also what you said, before that in the end, it's about the animal first, what you said. The tour is not the most important, [00:36:00] aspect of this experience. And I think that's a really good statement to make because I feel, and we see that a lot also, for example, in Africa with, safaris, that they really put the traveler first or the opportunity to make the perfect picture.

Anne: And I think it's really refreshing to have a company that said, like the animal, the most important part, then the research and marine biologists, and then you, and you just have to deal with it. And if you do. You'll have a great experience, but I think that's a really strong, statement. 

Carlos: you know, people like that. you know, of course we are not walking around with a stick beating people up. it's not like that. So we try to make them most, for them to feel comfortable, secure, safe, inspired. But it is important for people to understand, if not, we're not doing anything in whale watching, that they're not just going to a tourism attraction, they're seeing special animals, they're learning about the culture of,of a place.

Carlos: They're getting a little [00:37:00] of a sense of place, and they are learning about how to be stewards of the oceans.

Carlos: And are you, thinking about how this might change, for example, like with the weather or migration patterns, climate change, that everything that impacts the wheels? is it already happening or, yeah. what's the, what's your take on that?

Carlos: three weeks ago in Pico Island, we had,the meeting, which is called the, the Wales Biannual Meetings. And this, we, this year, scientists and companies, that was discussed. So we're trying to see the changes. We are recording them. We have seen that seminars are coming, uh, earlier.

Carlos: some are coming later, still within some patterns. But for instance, it was being discussed where our wells are coming from and some of them. We're coming from North Africa. And one of the things I remember from the conversation, and bear in mind, I'm, I'm not a scientist, [00:38:00] so if anyone is seeing this, I'm incorrect, I apologize.

Carlos: But for what I remember,whales have at least 10 years of memory that impacts their behavior. So the problem here might be that future impacts can already be imprinted in them because scientists here, have been able to see that they have at least 10 years of memory in their behavior. So who knows that we are not seeing right now, but like in 10 years time, something changes drastically.

Carlos: So. It is being studied in the azos by companies, by, uh, scientific research centers. it's something that of course concerns us because if no whales, no business, let's be very honest. And sometimes people think about, what is importance of tourism, 

Carlos: it might see something that at the very first look you don't think about, but that's an impact of whale watching. Then you think, for instance, we buy our picnics from a social institution, [00:39:00] called,social don in English.

Carlos: we use local,you know, guys to fix our boats.

Carlos: to sew our clothes that we give to our clients, to repair the engines, to repair the, like the floaters to just think about all that the single tourism company touches. And so the idea of not having whales, of course, it is something that we are concerned, but also you have to keep in mind that the Azos have now the one of the largest protected the areas in the world.

Carlos: So 30%. Of our sea is now protected. It's, it's a unique example in the world. Of course, we went more from the regional government and we are, always saying that having it does not mean that is rightly managed. So we need to enforce the law. But I think Azos are, you know, giving small [00:40:00] steps to be a, a good example.

Anne: yeah, no, absolutely. And I also think that you put a lot of effort in the people planet profit, and that kept keeping this in balance basically. Really make sure that you actually take care of your people. you make profit, but that it's all about,the wildlife in the end. So I think it's a really great example.

Anne: and I think there are a lot of, whale watching companies and also in general, companies that focus on, wildlife watching, can learn a lot from this. so thank you very much for sharing all of this. It's been very interesting and I look forward to, see where it goes.

Anne: I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Here's a lot we can learn from company like Fumo Azure's Adventures and how they balance offering responsible wheel watching, contributing to scientific research and the local community while offering an amazing, inclusive experience. Like and share this episode and subscribe our channel to not miss [00:41:00] any of the future episodes.

Anne: Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.