From A to Franchisee: The Podcast for Smarter Franchise Buying

Industry Spotlight: Business Services Franchisee

• Franchise Business Review • Season 1 • Episode 19

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In this podcast episode, Michelle Rowan interviews Mike Jones, a franchisee in the business services industry, specifically with Sandler, a well-known brand in training and sales development. The discussion delves into the unique aspects of owning a business services franchise, highlighting the transition from traditional business ownership to a franchise model. Mike shares his journey from owning a commercial truck tire center to managing a bank, and eventually purchasing a Sandler franchise in 2005. He emphasizes the importance of mindset, perseverance, and leveraging the support of other franchisees and coaches in the Sandler network. The conversation also covers the challenges of maintaining recurring revenue, building a team, and aligning personal and company goals. Mike's experience underscores the value of resilience and strategic decision-making in the business services franchise sector.

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Michelle Rowan (00:04)
Welcome back to our podcast from A to Franchisee. And today we are going to spotlight a franchisee that's in business services. So we're going to take you inside one of the fastest growing segments of franchising. While many people think of food, retail or home services when they imagine being an owner of a franchise, the business services sector operates behind the scenes.

These are businesses that help other companies grow, strengthen their teams, improve sales performance, and adapt to a changing marketplace. And for entrepreneurs looking for a lower overhead professional service businesses with strong B2B demand, this category is definitely worth considering. In this episode, we're talking with Mike Jones, a franchisee from Sandler, a well-known brand in the training and sales development space.

With Mike's help, we'll dig into what it's really like to own and operate a franchise in this space. We're covering everything from transitioning into a professional services model to attracting corporate clients to balancing the delivery of training with the work of building a sustainable business. Whether you're exploring franchise ownership for the first time, comparing different sectors within franchising, or simply just curious about the realities of running a business to business services franchise, this conversation

will have a candid behind the scenes look at the skills mindset and the day to day experience that you need to thrive. So let's jump in. Welcome Mike, thanks for joining us for the conversation today.

Mike Jones (01:36)
Thanks for having me, Michelle.

Michelle Rowan (01:38)
All right, I always start with what were you doing before you became a franchisee? And then I want you to just kind of transition into what year you became a franchisee with Sandler and we'll go from there.

Mike Jones (01:49)
Okay, well I'll back up a step further prior to what I was doing before I joined Sandler. I was a business owner in the past. I owned a commercial truck tire center in the South Bronx, New York. And through 9-11 and all the sequence of events out there, I decided to move back to Ohio and I got a job managing a bank, right? So going from tires to banking. Different in the corporate world as we all know where you've got people eight levels up trying to give you direction that aren't.

in the fight that you're on in that particular moment. So I've always been drawn toward going back to owning my own company. And that was in 2005, I had an opportunity to buy a Sandler franchise. And I just, I wanted the roller coaster ride to be my roller coaster ride, right? Versus somebody else's. So it was attractive for me to just kind of do my own thing.

Michelle Rowan (02:43)
Okay, so Mike, were you looking at other franchise ownership opportunities or the Sandler one was really the only one that you were looking at?

Mike Jones (02:51)
It was the only one that I was looking at.

Michelle Rowan (02:53)
Okay, so then let's talk about what attracted you to their model ⁓ of what they deliver for the service to your customers, but also why were you drawn to that business? So you bought an existing business, which is different than starting from scratch in a region. So tell me what drew you to the service that they provide or to the brand specifically.

Mike Jones (03:14)
So I didn't know about Sandler when somebody approached me and said, hey, you should really look at this. ⁓ I've always been sort of a self-help person. Like I believe that the mind ⁓ is a crazy tool that we have to learn how to harness it.

and we have to learn how to use it the right way. And my dad kind of got me into that growing up, just the whole zig-ziglar thing and personal empowerment. And as I started to dig into Sandler, I realized that a lot of the aspects of what they teach is between the ears. So I did like the structure that they provided with their course curriculum, ⁓ but I equally, if not more, like the mindset.

that I was able to kind of lean into and teach people about and just get them to just break through any success barriers that they were facing. So that's what really, really drew me to that particular franchise.

Michelle Rowan (04:12)
Okay, so in what year was it that you purchased the franchise? Okay, so that my next question was if you can put your thinking cap back onto that. So it's 20 years. First of all, congratulations. 20 years as a business owner is an accomplishment in itself. But when you first signed on, what were your hopes for this business? What kind of ⁓ long-term plan had you put together? What did it look like when you were about to take on the role as a franchisee?

Mike Jones (04:16)
2005.

Thank you.

So it was quite small. There wasn't a lot of recurring revenue from the existing owner that we bought it from. And my hope was that we had this foundation since it was an existing franchise that we could just kind of like parlay and grow what I didn't anticipate because of the intimacy with the business when the existing customers realized that the old owner left, they left.

which immediately put me in the red. So I wasn't making a lot of money. I had a bunch of overhead that I had to pay. And it was a 14 month struggle before we started to figure this thing out on how to get out of the red and into the black. So, you know, a lot of self doubt, a lot of questioning myself, a lot of family members going, what on earth did you just do? ⁓ But that's when you have to really

leverage the grit and determination and perseverance part of being a business owner.

Michelle Rowan (05:45)
Yeah, well, I love this because I love that you're being vulnerable and talking about the stuff that wasn't easy. And we really try to set it up for our audience that being a business owner, especially in the beginning, is very, very hard. So I love that you have these other people around you kind of ⁓ questioning or adding to the negative thoughts in your head and you worked through it. Now, looking back, because I think there's a lesson to learn here, do you feel like

you did a good job communicating to the customers about the transaction. Is there anything you feel like you could have done differently to keep those customers from going when ownership of the business changed?

Mike Jones (06:20)
So the previous owner wasn't as involved in the transition as we would have liked, right? So I sort of lost that hand holding over time to collaborate with and just get to know the existing customers better. Certainly there was a gap in the skill set that he had versus what I had because I didn't know Sandler, I didn't know the methodology.

Michelle Rowan (06:26)
Okay.

Mike Jones (06:46)
So I was just kind of building the plane as we were flying it for that first year. So a little bit more intimate in the beginning, I would have enjoyed that more.

Michelle Rowan (06:51)
Yeah.

Yeah,

so I was going to say, that's a good lesson for anyone. And we're doing another episode that's really talking about buying existing business versus starting from scratch. But I think that's a great lesson of just really focusing on that transition plan. OK, so you buy a business that's in business already. And what does it look like for you as far as your training and support from the franchisor? How did you kind of ramp up on as far as what Sandler did so you could run the business?

Mike Jones (07:21)
So anytime somebody buys a Sandler franchise, they get assigned a coach, right? So I leaned into my coach a lot, just about mindset and structure and strategy and direction. The other thing that I didn't realize would be a huge benefit is the other franchisees in the Sandler space, right? They've been where I'm going. And one of the mistakes that I made is I was somebody that

I was uncomfortable asking people for help, right? I grew up in a tough household, a disciplined household. ⁓ If it's to be, it's up to me mindset. And once I learned to get out of my own way and actually ask for help specifically about what I was going through, that started to accelerate my learning curve more.

Michelle Rowan (08:12)
Yeah, I love that. Okay, so now you're in the business. ⁓ What does a typical week look for you? How many hours are you working? Do you have a staff that supports you? And just kind of what do you spend your time doing in a normal week in your business?

Mike Jones (08:29)
So when I first got the franchise, I was the engine that made it work, right? I was the value of the company. If I would have left, the value in the company would have left. Well, in order to scale, I realized that at some point in time, I'm gonna hit capacity. And I not only have to sell it and deliver it, but then I have the business to run, the invoicing, the operations, the insurances, all that stuff. So I started to find people

that were better than me, that were smarter than me. And I started to bring them into the fold. And we hired our first employee in 2008, so three years after we got the franchise. And then today I'm a team of 14. So I have 11 of us that are actually selling and training the product. And then I've got three people that are the backend support for us.

Michelle Rowan (09:30)
Okay, that's a that's a perfect breakdown. Do you use any contractors or outside help or those are the people that are helping you run your business week to week? Perfect. Okay.

Mike Jones (09:30)
Good night.

Those are the people that helped me run my business. Now,

I do use outside help for marketing, right? And that's pretty much it. Everything else we do internally.

Michelle Rowan (09:47)
Okay, that's great. All right, so let's talk about the business model itself. So one of the things about ⁓ businesses that are franchises that are in your space specifically is around reoccurring revenue. What does that look like for you as far as reoccurring revenue versus one-off sales?

Mike Jones (10:04)
Yeah, so about 70 % of our monthly revenue is recurring revenue. And then the other 30 is just one-offs, different sales, individuals, things like that.

Michelle Rowan (10:12)
Okay.

Okay, so and for people listening to this that either aren't business owners or haven't thought about this, reoccurring revenue is a great model. So you can forecast your growth really well. So it's a great, I think it's a pro of being in a business services space and that a lot of professional services are on some kind of monthly retainer or some kind of repeat business. So that's a great call out. ⁓ So because you are so reliant on reputation and ⁓

what people know of you or think of you in your community. How do you build your business? How are you doing that and building that presence in your local community?

Mike Jones (10:54)
So a lot of word of mouth, a lot of referrals, a lot of asking our existing clients that have experience with us to introduce us to people, right? So your normal like cold calling isn't really effective ⁓ and it's just leveraging the people that know you and know about you and can speak to it, right? I think that's extremely important. I think really for any person that's in a selling role,

you have to have three or four five areas of lead generation. It can't just be all cold calling or it can't just be all networking events or it can't just be, you know, leveraging introductions through LinkedIn. You've got to have a number of areas that you're reaching out to each and every day.

Michelle Rowan (11:45)
Yeah, that's good diversifying the way you do it. do you feel like you're doing a good job tracking where your business is coming from?

Mike Jones (11:53)
We are masters of data, right? We track all of the, we track the specific behaviors that we're doing. We track the quantity of those behaviors that we're doing. We track, you know, where we got the lead from or the introduction from, where our business is coming from. We wanna know all of that.

Michelle Rowan (11:55)
Okay, okay.

Yeah, that's great. You can't figure out where your money is best spent if you're not tracking those results. So that's great. Okay, so going back to when you first started, I want you to think about any of the biggest surprises you had before you, or once you were in the business and you didn't know before you invested. You talked about that transition plan with the owner. Is there anything else that stands out and it could be something that's unpleasant or something that surprised you and delighted you in a positive way that you just didn't anticipate before you invested in the business?

Mike Jones (12:43)
I didn't anticipate it being as hard as it was. Like a couple months in, I can remember saying to myself, I think I just bit off more than I could chew. I had no idea that it was gonna be that hard. But what I learned from that experience, Michelle, is I had skills and attributes that were buried in me that I didn't even know I had. And those hard moments allowed me to discover that and tap into that. Like there's a component of being resilient here.

Michelle Rowan (12:45)
Yeah.

Mike Jones (13:12)
and just not quitting that I didn't expect, but I would not change a thing. Like that created so many positive attributes in myself, even though was an awful thing to go through, it was one of my best life lessons that I experienced and I wouldn't change a thing to this day.

Michelle Rowan (13:28)
Yeah.

That's so great. I love that. Okay. So I want you to think about now. So now your business is established. You have a team of 14. What are your current biggest challenges that you're facing in your business or that keeps you up at night?

Mike Jones (13:49)
getting everybody swimming in the right direction, right? We have a vision for our company. We have a mission for our company. And I want everybody to never lose sight of that. And that's really as the leader, that's what I have to sell internally to my team. Like there's a reason we're doing this and it's bigger than us and it's gonna outlive us and we're creating a legacy. People are gonna look back on their life and they're gonna say,

I am so glad that I worked with Mike and his team because it's just made me a better person. And I think when our mission is a selfless mission and not a selfish mission, the stars align. The universe creates a path for people that are clear on what it is that they're after.

Michelle Rowan (14:41)
Yeah. And so how are you doing that with your team? What are some ways that you align them with your mission or how are you helping them grow or engaging them in your business?

Mike Jones (14:50)
So we do a lot of coaching, we do a lot of team meetings, we do a lot of like resetting so we're clear on what we're doing. ⁓ Sometimes when I see them getting creative, I just want to harness it back in and really ask why are we doing what we're doing and does it align with our mission and our vision. We've created a document, we call it our objective standards. And it's objective because there's no wavering.

This is how we operate. And when I see us sometimes not operating in line with the objective standards that we've created, there has to be a discussion around that and sort of a reining people back in.

Michelle Rowan (15:33)
Yeah, that's great. I think that's one of the challenges that we hear is just ⁓ leading people can be hard, especially if you're not trained in that or figuring out ways to grow that part of you as a leader yourself. So that's great. ⁓

Mike Jones (15:46)
Yeah, one of the

mistakes I see is people's personal agendas are always going to trump company agendas. That's just human nature. Well, I need to know what their personal agendas are. And I need to then teach them how to leverage the resources of the company to get what they want out of life personally. And then they want me to hold them accountable.

Michelle Rowan (16:15)
Yeah.

Mike Jones (16:16)
into that and that's a beautiful thing.

Michelle Rowan (16:18)
Yeah, that's a great connection because we talk about how you mentioned you have a coach through your franchise or we talk about the importance of that coach knowing you the franchisees goals and helping align the business with what those goals are. And it makes sense on the employee side to do that same. So I love that. So how do you balance as the business owner? How do you balance delivering your service, your training, your coaching to your customers with the running the business side? Which one do you enjoy more?

and then just how do you make time for both parts of that?

Mike Jones (16:49)
Well, I'm a big fan of time blocking in my calendar. ⁓ I'm a big fan of delegation, empowering others. I try to do as little as possible here, right? Like I only wanna do what only Mike can do. Now I'm never gonna get there, but I aim for that each and every day. Only do what only Mike can do. And then I just try to delegate the rest because my areas of weakness.

are somebody else's areas of opportunity. And when I am clear headed enough to recognize what are my competencies versus my non competencies, then it's easier for me to offload things that I'm not too good at, right? So I probably today work, I probably work about 40 hours a week ⁓ and I spend probably, it's probably a good mix of half of that time just

Michelle Rowan (17:20)
Yeah.

Mike Jones (17:46)
checking in with the operations team and making sure that the company's running the right way. And then the other half, training and coaching. And I enjoy training and coaching, right? I enjoy helping people and just sharing knowledge and learning from each other. You know, I'm a big fan of nobody's smarter than all of us. So if we can collaborate and learn from each other, it's just gonna be better for everyone.

Michelle Rowan (18:11)
Yeah, that's great. think great for you sharing that you're at about 40 hours a week. What do you think about in those first couple years, the hours that you're putting into your business?

Mike Jones (18:21)
It was probably 50 to 60, I would say.

Michelle Rowan (18:27)
Okay.

So yeah, so just knowing that it does get better as you build your team and as you're in business longer. ⁓ that's great. The other thing I would say is you mentioned you have 11 other people selling and doing the training, which I think, ⁓ that's something too, that I see that's where people can get stuck is that if everyone that reaches out to Sandler in your, location in Ohio, they, they need to work with Mike Jones directly.

Mike Jones (18:30)
Yes.

Michelle Rowan (18:52)
So building that team and building their thought leadership so that all your customers don't feel like they have to have you directly working with them. I think that's a great tip for business owners too, is that's how you scale. You can't be everywhere that 11 other people can be. Yeah. Okay. So now that you have this time in the business and you can reflect on it, how has owning a franchise or being a franchisee impacted or changed your personal life?

Mike Jones (19:05)
Correct. Yeah.

Well, it certainly allowed us to do things personally that I couldn't do if I didn't have this company, right? So I've got a product and a service that we sell, ⁓ but I also have a family that I have to be mindful of and provide for. And I have to keep my financial house in order. And I think one of the most important things for people that own a company is always keep your financial house in order. That's both.

with the company and it's also personally at home and owning this franchise has allowed me, it's allowed me to do that and I'm blessed and I'm thankful for it and I don't take it for granted, I'll tell you that.

Michelle Rowan (20:01)
so we hear this a lot, just how much owning a business or owning a franchise can bring to your life. So I'm glad that it's been a positive experience for you. Do you find that there's any particular skills or mindset that you think would make a person be really good or have a better chance at being a successful franchise owner when you're in the B2B space of franchising?

Mike Jones (20:25)
Absolutely. And you know, the amount of companies that we have worked with, we are lucky enough and privileged enough to intimately know hundreds of sales cultures. And the interesting thing, Michelle, any company we go into, there is always below average salespeople, average salespeople, and above average salespeople.

And it's interesting because they all have access to the same resources. So what separates these three people, these three groups of people? And at the end of the day, it doesn't have to do with the economy or their product or service or their supervisors. Those are factors, but that's not the factor. It always comes down to someone's level of great determination and perseverance, right? I mean, there's moments in time that you just got to

Michelle Rowan (21:14)
I love that. That's great. Yeah.

Mike Jones (21:20)
You gotta walk the fight alone and you gotta dig deep and you gotta believe in yourself and execute.

Michelle Rowan (21:26)
Yeah, I love that. That's good advice. And that's really good advice for any business owner too, not just B2B. ⁓ So if you had to think about what you enjoy most about your business and what you enjoy least in your business, tell us what brings you the most joy in what you do and what are the hardest parts of your day to day now.

Mike Jones (21:44)
I'll start with the hardest part is just drama, right? And anytime you bring groups of human beings together, at times there's gonna be conflict and drama, right? So I think that's what saps my energy the most, but it's a needed area to address. What I love the most is getting people to see things clearer.

Michelle Rowan (22:00)
Yeah.

Mike Jones (22:10)
that maybe they weren't aware of or didn't believe in themselves or didn't think that that was possible. Because being in the people business, one of the things that I've learned is we'll never outperform our self image, never. So if I can get somebody to grow conceptually and see themselves in a better, more positive light, they're naturally gonna perform better and...

do things different in the roles that they play. That is awesome.

Michelle Rowan (22:42)
I love that. And as a leader, think that we don't even know all the ways that we can impact someone's self ⁓ thoughts that they think about themselves. So giving them the opportunity to excel or just recognizing when they do something great can also help turn around their self talk. So that was great. ⁓ What is one question you feel like anybody that's thinking about becoming a franchise owner should ask their franchisor or existing franchisees before they invest?

Mike Jones (22:58)
Yes.

What What is the potential? What is the growth? What does extreme success look like? And what is the path to get there? Like what are best practices to get there? I think when clarity is around, clear thinking follows it and strategic decision making follows it. So getting as crystal clear as we can get about what the path to success looks like is important.

But people have to be guarded because you cannot wait for all the lights to be green. Sometimes you just got to pull the trigger and make it happen.

Michelle Rowan (23:50)
what do you think about when you bought the business? Is there anything that you wish that you had done differently or done it sooner or slowed down? Anything that you would have asked differently before you purchased?

Mike Jones (24:01)
Well, I definitely would have done it sooner. I definitely would have asked, you know, what's the track record when you buy an existing franchise of client retention? I didn't ask that, right? Like, what does that look like? Is that even a thing or what should I be concerned about? ⁓ I think I would have asked a little bit more.

Michelle Rowan (24:12)
that's a great question. That's a great question. Yep.

Mike Jones (24:26)
uncomfortable questions or like give me the downside here or give me things that I should just be aware of that I don't know, right? It's like when you buy a new house, it all looks good but when you live in it for a couple months, you start discovering stuff that you wish you would have known before you bought it. Like I would have dug a little bit more to try and find some of that stuff out.

Michelle Rowan (24:41)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's great. All right, so we survey thousands, over 35,000 franchisees usually each year, ⁓ and including in the business services industry, we looked at that particular data that we have from people that are in the business to business segment of franchising. 87 % of franchisees say that they enjoy owning their franchise. 93 % rate their long-term growth opportunity for businesses, for their business as moderate, strong, or very strong. And 86 %

rate the opportunity overall as above average. That's our good, very good and excellent responses. So franchisees in this space definitely are ⁓ saying positive things about being a franchisee and it sounds like this is your experience as well. Is there any parting thoughts, anything else that you would like to say to our audience that might be considering buying a franchise?

Mike Jones (25:30)
Yes.

Dream big, right? Dream big. This life isn't a dry run. We got one shot at this thing, so we might as well swing for the fence.

Michelle Rowan (25:45)
that. Mike, can tell that the culture within your organization is very positive. I really appreciate you sharing this. And again, I think that's a hard thing for franchisees is the leading people part. So it's probably coming from what you do as the product and service you deliver to your customers as well. But I do appreciate you sharing this with other potential business owners. Thanks for joining us today.

Mike Jones (26:07)
Thanks for having me.