36: Finding Passion & Purpose Again

Episode 36: Finding Passion & Purpose Again

There comes a moment in the journey where survival isn’t the question anymore… it’s now what?

In this episode, Jamal and David dive into one of the hardest transitions after loss—moving from just getting through the day to actually building a life again. They explore what it means to rediscover purpose when the life you once knew no longer exists, and why so many widowers and widows feel stuck between honoring the past and wanting more from the future.

Through personal reflection and real talk, they unpack how purpose doesn’t disappear—it gets disrupted. From finding small sparks of passion to rebuilding identity through action, community, and discipline, this episode offers a grounded path forward. If you’ve been asking yourself who you are now and what comes next… this conversation is for you.

Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death is a podcast that explores the raw, unfiltered reality of surviving profound personal loss—and finding a way forward.  The idea for the podcast was born after David and Jamal met in 2023. Both widowers, who had lost their wives to cancer, quickly found a deep connection through multiple conversations about pain, perseverance, and parenthood. They realized that while men often bond over music, sports, or TV, they rarely speak candidly about loss or emotional recovery. Getting Back Up was created to change that narrative—blending the everyday with the existential in a format that’s as relatable as it is real. 

Thank you for your support!

Hosts: David McClain & Jamal Jones
Executive Directors: Marlon Jackson & Ted Winners (Like A Gazelle Productions)
Editing: Marlon Jackson
Music: 
Grenada, "Treasure" 
McDonald, Otis, "Phife for Life", otismusic.com

Thank you for listening! Follow us on Instagram/TikTok @getbackuppodcast and on X @GBUpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Getting Back Up with grief, meet, growth. Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

We're talking about life after cancer, love, loss, and everything no one tells you.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

How are you doing? I'm Jamal Jones.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

And I'm David McLean. We welcome you to another episode of Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death. Jamal, there's a moment in this journey where survival, it isn't a question anymore. It's now what?

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

And why?

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Who am I? And what life do I still have? That question kind of really comes up.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Yeah, because you're you're when you start this journey, if you think about it, like you're just surviving day to day. Right? Like you are literally just trying to figure out how do I wake up in the morning? Yeah. How do I get out the bed? How do I get the kids dressed and start the day? And you know, it there are moments where just that surviving, it actually gets to a point where it actually feels, you know, more empty than anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

And that's where a lot of widowers and widows really get stuck because they don't want more, don't know how much more they want. And it's more about this how do I live without feeling guilty?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, I mean, we we we always talk about the guilty. Again, it's the it's the the the the the anchor, right? That's around your ankle sometimes. But yeah, you you struggle with the guilt and letting in more, and also understanding what does more look like in in a world where your life has been turned upside down, right? Everything has completely changed. And I think that's definitely what you know when when you think about like all the plans you made in your life up until the point when your late partner passes away, or your late your family member, whatever. Yeah, all everything has changed. Just that version of who you were and what that life was going to be, it's gone.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, I mean, I think this is the episode where we're really talking about moving on. Yeah. We're we're we've talked about that to this point, I should say. And so now it's to the point where we're talking about rebuilding purpose. Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, because we all have purpose. We all we all want to find passion. There's everything, we all function. We always you know, so many people talk about it. What's your purpose in life? What's my purpose? What's my what am I passionate about? But when you when you lose something of this this capacity, there's it's almost a complete reset, right? Like you've again, you've built so much of who you are and what you're gonna do around a person or a lifestyle or a or a kind of dynamic, and now you're getting to a point where like you all of that feels diff distant. Everything that you did before feels distant. It all feels something you're completely disconnected to, and now you are almost having to reinvent yourself.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

It's it's where do you move from grief to growth?

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Or just living again.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah. And just doing it in a way that honors who you lost. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah. Yeah, but you I mean you you it it doesn't keep you from uh finding that purpose and becoming you know finding happiness, but it doesn't keep you and and kind of prevent you from you know finding out who you are again and what are the things that motivate you. Like that has to be part of the process of you know, again, getting back up and and kind of turning that page. Yeah. But yeah, it's just it's it's the reality, it's the challenge. Let's get into it as well. I guess we gotta who's gonna you who's gonna want me to start.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I guess I well yeah, so so so how how what drives you forward at this point, Jamal? What what is it? What number of things is it at this point?

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So I I think the the thing that I started with, right? Um because again, my world exploded, you know, in in the sense of all the things that I thought was gonna happen, all of these plans that I was making or or wanted to make, all these plans that you know we were making for the family, it all kind of exploded, and it was already starting to change, right? I was already again you know, kind of going back to what we talk about, like not every marriage when you go through this is perfect, right? Some of them are great, some of them are kind of dealing with their struggles. So I was already before even you know Janice even got sick, I already started thinking about like well, what will restarting look like for me if if we got divorced, right? If if if if our family unit changed. Um, so you I imagine that at some point, but then that all kind of went out the window when Janice got sick. So there was already kind of this vision in my head of like I'm gonna have to restart. But when she got sick, it was kind of like pause reset, like you you totally forget about that, and you're focused on like getting your family through this experience. For me, when it was time to you know figure that out, and where I struggled with the finding the passion, the purpose, like I honestly grounded myself in the kids, right? I grounded myself in making sure that you know that the first step for me was making sure that they were okay and that I was available to them as much as I needed to be, as much as I could be, and and part of it was supporting them through their grieving process, making sure that they were sane and they were okay mentally, and finding healthy ways to grieve, and I was supporting that as best as possible, and that was important to me because I think, again, so much of that in their safety was you know, it's it's the critical when you're a single dad, yeah, or a single mom, single parent, like that is the most important thing at that moment is like getting them through the day. And I think that helped me to also make sure that I'm also maintaining my own health, my own mental health, my own emotional health. So I would say my purpose became my health, their health, yeah, in that order, right? Like, I can't help them be healthy mentally or physically if I'm not healthy mentally and physically. And I would say, like, honestly, like we we talked about like taking the walks. I was like working out like five, six times a week, you know, in the gym, going on runs. I think I was probably, you know, got to a point where I argued I was probably the best shape of my life physically, maybe not necessarily mentally, because I was still dealing with kind of the elements of grief. I think that was part of it. And then another part of it was with the kids just kind of creating memories, right? Like allowing them to look back at past memories, but also as we turn this new page, I thought a lot about what are they gonna remember me for at some point. At some point, I'm not gonna be here, right? And I want them to be able to take these memories, and I was very intentional about like pictures and moments and you know experiences and trying to do more things with them. And it's hard, like you know, you know, now we have kids that are teenagers, you know. My my my my oldest at the time was a teen. Tahir, my stepson, he was living in in in Jersey at the time. So I'm trying to like you know do this with a teenager. It was easy with Zaya because she was, you know, seven, eight at the time, and she was like okay being right by my side, you know. Uh Jackie was more like she was in high school and kind of doing her own thing, but I still try to hold on to these memories and create your memories and vacations and things like that was important.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Um even during that time, let me ask, were you also thinking about you were looking back, assessing, evaluating the relationship that you were in, and thinking already then, yeah, I'm not gonna do that as I move forward. Were you already starting to think about that?

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Yeah, yeah. And then when I think about that, so that was another part.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Some you can control and some you some you can't control.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

What baggage we all bring into these relationships.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Exactly. So that was the other part. So the first was like grounding myself in like my purpose is the kids' health, my health. I need to be a healthy father and a healthy man, yeah, so that I can be strong for my kids. I need to be a healthy man, health-wise, physically and mentally, so that I evolve into a relationship. If I decide to move forward, I'm also in a better place in the context of like how I can appreciate, embrace, and allow love.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

That was an important part because again, coming from a marriage that wasn't the the best, right? You know, for for different reasons, again, on both sides, right? Like it was also me saying, I've got to make sure I repair myself, that I fix my issues and deal with my issues and like where they come from, which they're like so like understanding like my capacity to truly grow in love was important. And and I think, you know, now that I think about my marriage to Jordan, it's like it's a continuous process. I'm still evolving, I'm still learning, I'm still a learning, still learning about my triggers. I'm still realizing where grief conflicts with, you know, in certain cases, with my own development, right? Um and grief with growth. And grief with growth.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

It stops or you heal and continue dealing with the past, but then also dealing with the present because your now wife, she has her. Yeah, she got her trigger and mourning of what she had at in her prior relationship too. Right, right. Oh, is this gonna happen again here? Right. Which right? So it's you all are coming together, yeah. Your growth is her growth too.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Exactly. So that was the one that was one part. And then when I think about friendships, that was another thing. So I think about like another part of my purpose became doing my best to hone in and strengthen the relationships that I had. I became a much better friend. Part of it was because of how much my friends supported me through the process, but also from the context of vulnerability and you know, just what I was willing to share with them and open up so that they could share with me. I feel like I tried my best to become a better friend because I remembered really appreciating the people who were great friends during my during that process. And and and some of them didn't even realize how much how meaningful the things that they were doing, how meaningful it was or how important it was. So I looked at that and said, wow, like there's these elements of of friendship that I could be better at. There's these elements of friendship that I want more of, right, from my support system. And I need to do that so that I'm better as a support system. I think that was those are two pieces, you know, that I think, you know, when you talk about the the the relationships in my life, that was important. Um finding passion at work, you know, I think it's always like hard because you you pursue your career path, you start off your early years in your career, you're taking the job that you can get, right? In many ways. And then as you get older, you start understanding this element of passion and career. And I think for me, it was probably amplified because I was seeking so many elements of joy in my life and so much different levels of fulfillment that that was something that I was very thoughtful about. Like I got to a place where, you know, well, how do I find passionate work? How do I find passion in in what I do? And how how do I find passion and joy in the people that I work with? Like I don't want to be like I was very intelligent. I don't want to work for a manager who I can't tolerate. Yeah. And who can't tolerate me. Not to say we have to be best friends, but I want to be motivated by my leader. I want to be be motivated by the team that I work, you know, that I work with, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Do you think on the career side that your sense of passion was dulled or changed and redefined?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

I think it was redefined. Again, I had a great team.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Who uh and a great team at the time. I was, you know, when when when Janice was sick through the point that she passed, my team was amazing, right? Like they they were awesome. And what we did, the work what we did, I always joke that like, you know, we're not saving babies, but it was fun. And it was fun because of the people, right? Like you could have put anything there, yeah, any any task, any project, but it was fun because of the people. And I think that was something that was was really important to me. But when you think about what passion and how does this all come together, how's it purpose? Was I was very purposeful about working with people who I enjoy working with and I get along with and I can have fun with. That was something that I I continue to really seek and make sure I try to have in my career. Purpose or passion is different though, right? Because now I'm getting to the point in my career where like, man, I want to do stuff that I'm passionate about. And and and this is one, right? That the the just in life, just in life, experience, yeah. Life experiences being able to be on the job, but yeah, yeah. Just in and and one of the things that I became passionate about was like helping people, yeah. Right. Like just if I saw a friend who was dealing with something, like I became like, let's talk about it, man. Like, what are you dealing with? Like, tell me about it. Like, I I I really wanted to tune in. And you know, even when we talked, when we first, when I first when we first met in our journey and our discussions, totally example of that. Yeah, I mean that like the passion was like, man, this I wanted I want to help people.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Right? Like, you know, when I both experienced men and in particular in our lives who took their own lives, committed suicide because they were dealing with depression or dealing with just something that they didn't talk about. And that was for me, it became I was it became a passion that I was very like intentional about, like, no, no, we're gonna talk about it. What you got going on? Yeah, tell me what you got going on, let's talk. And trying to crack that open for people to let them realize listen, if you don't talk, I'm gonna talk. So I'm gonna lead by example until you start talking. Yeah, right, right. And I think that was something that that that was important for me. So now as I think about it, it's just really like you know, whatever that is, whatever that thing that brings me joy is, I'm I'm running to it and not afraid and not from it.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, I uh you that is definitely I've witnessed it, I'm uh also a benefactor of that. Yeah because that's how you and I are to each other, right? You coming to me, hey, let's talk about this D. And so that's where we are, that's where we are today. Yeah, because you were intentional about the passion of helping people, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

So I mean I that that to me, I think it was just like finding ways to use my experiences in life. Good, bad, yeah, or indifferent. Great kids, great mother of my children, now great wife, people who are dealing with their own experiences in life and just being okay connecting. That that actually became something that I became a pat you know passionate about. Like being able to really how do I take what I've done, what I've experienced in life, and like setting setting the table, so to speak, so that people feel welcome and okay sharing and talking about their experience. Yes, and so we can learn from each other, so we can help each other. Because it's all common, it's all common to all of us, all of these challenges. Yeah. So so that was for me, that was that was it for me. I don't like I'm passionate about painting. No, it's it's more, you know, and if that it's if that's it, that's fine. Sure. But I'm just saying, like, so I mean, for you, like what what has been your experience?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And I think in particular, it was continuing the development of our children that Nalani, my late wife, and I started that to ensure that they are as well-rounded, now this huge chapter in their life traumatic, has happened. Okay, let's put everybody back together, including myself. Yeah, and so I think it was definitely that. So I Nalani had said often to me jokingly, you know, I only got married so I could have children. Right. Like, great. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

So biolog I mean, biologically, that's that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, right. She was like, I wouldn't have gotten married. I was like, all right, great, great, Nalani. So yeah, it was it was somewhat of a joke, but I think she was very serious at the same time. But serious in the sense too of getting married is I I think she wanted to stay married because the example she had seen was divorce with her own parents. So the reason was to in getting married and having the kids is adding another example that is of a healthy union, of how people stay together through different challenges. Yeah. And work through the healthy union, not the ravages of a loveless marriage to whatever extent that she witnessed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

And I think that's a good point because I think you can go into a situation and repeat it.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Or you can reject it and do something totally different. Yes. Right. So I think that's that's right. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

So that I think was very in frame for her, and certainly I embrace because my parents divorced. Right. And then as I've mentioned, my mother met the cowboy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tiny the name up there, William H. Goodon Sr. The Chauncey in the background here. Aka Tiny, but he was a big thing. Aka Tiny, but of course he's a big dude, yeah. Whatever, and shoots guns and rides horses. Actually, he was in rodeos and the whole thing. Nice. It's an interesting story, actually. Um, really funny stories, actually. So I think it was this legacy Nalani wanted to either change or alter that. No, no, no. People can have a healthy union. People to a man and woman can love one another and openly show that, and then it also feeds down to the to the children because then they too have a good start when they go places. It's almost like, you know, we're we don't cover generational wealth, but starting your children off with they don't have to pay for school, right? They don't have debt going into that, they're gonna maybe not pay back from whatever their positions are. Right. It's kind of that same thing. It's yeah, you're paying down on that person's future, right? And that's what Nalani was doing from the representation of these two healthy people in a healthy relationship who have maybe have challenges, but they work through it because they love enough and love those children, and the children are watching, right? So you're modeling. So I think that's very much part of what really drives me forward. The other thing is just this sense of giving and receiving love. I have so much more, it doesn't stop when Nalani passed. That's who I was coming into the marriage, who we were in the marriage, and all these different people and meaningful friends that we have in our lives. Right. That you and I talk about a lot when we're when we're in in on talking here in our episodes on on this podcast. Yeah. I just have another meaningful relationship again. Right. There's so much that I have learned from not only the women in my life, who I talk about all the time, my mother, Nalani, play aunties, but the men too. Right. Uncle Marlin, who's again with us here today. Yeah, um, you, um, my man Sheldon, my best friend. The all these different people in the world who have given me so much, and we laugh and we get through the peaks and valleys.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah, I mean, we're we're all modeling for each other, right? I mean, it's to your point. I have like some of my best friends are, you know, friends who've been married to their spouses for going to 20 years, and some who are, you know, in second marriages or whatever. And we're all modeling for each other. We're all looking at each other and learning. And even better is if we're talking about these things, not just watching peripherally at what how do they stay married? They seem happy or or or they seem to weather these life's challenges okay, or why do he, you know, get divorced so soon, or why does she get divorced so soon?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Like, if we're not having these conversations, like that's the part, like that's where our relationships deepen.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Right, for sure. And talk about the joy and the pain.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Because it's easy to talk about the joy. Oh, yeah. And people may see it. But I'm not saying give every gory detail. Right. That's not what we're saying. Right. It's we can learn from because again, the theme we talk about, Jamal, it's all common to all of us. So you might as well work it on now. Yeah. Maybe somebody is going to preserve or enhance a relationship or or further deepen that love and connection that people are looking toward one another and not away.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah. So I I think that's also this moving forward. What drives me forward? And I think the last thing for me is exactly what you talked about helping other people. Yeah. Is bringing together this grief diaspora of people. That's why we reach out in this platform of the podcast. Yeah. That's why we're looking at widower retreats. Yeah. That's why we're going more and more on social and just getting that message out so that everyone is going through this, and we all need to have in a nurturing space, yeah, a place to kind of work through all of this. Yeah. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

About you, I and it's interesting, like that we did this exercise kind of separately, and like we did you know a choreograph R3, but they're so aligned, yeah. But then the last one of like what the passion is. I know I don't know if this is the case for you, but I know after I got to a point where I can embrace my loss, yeah, embrace the grief process. I know there was a part of me that was almost magnetically drawn to people who were grieving. Like, oh, I know this, let's let me go help. And yeah, and and it was almost, you know, I I call it, you know, I tell the kids all the time, like there's a super a superpower that you get from this, and it's empathy, yeah, right. At least it's it's at the minimum, it's empathy. And I know for me, when I think about like the passion, the passion to help people, the passion to lean in and kind of go out. Like, I sometimes I have to kind of hesitate. Like, if I hear that somebody, you know, has lost or somebody's going through something, uh but I don't really know them well. Let me not text them. Yeah, or somebody posts stuff. Yeah, I don't know how they're gonna receive it or where they're gonna be. Yeah, but you know, it's it's it is true. It's like you know, we we have to like hopefully we're in a place where we can, you know, make our passions and our purpose. Our mission. Our mission.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah, I think so. So so let's talk about finding your your way again. Just to give some people some these are some some themes that we kind of brought together. And I think the first one is the that this purpose doesn't die. Yeah, it it gets disrupted with with grief and loss, yeah, as as it is. So it loss will not erase who you are. You all have heard this from us again, but these are fundamentally always going to be a through line through this whole process all the time. And so loss doesn't erase who you are, may disorient you for a little bit, but your identity goes on. It's really untethered. It's not we talked about before Jamal when we're talking about am I a widower or a single dad? Well, I think the two are the same. One then moved into another phase, and then you still can remarry, right, but you're still fundamentally the same person, the same person. You were that single person who looked at life a certain way. You were a widower that also valued life in a different way. Yeah. And so, really, all of this through this the the purpose not dying is the the work is rediscovery. Yeah, it it's not reinvention. Right. That's it's you're it's looking at it in a different way, reworking it in that reinvention of okay, what does it look like now? Because I'm you've got to be different after everything.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yeah, and and and we t that's a good transition to the next one, right? Because you are different. You're not a different person, but you are different. Like how you process information, how you process emotions, how you process the things in the world and the environment around you. It's going to change, right? But it it doesn't fundamentally change to your point, who you are at the core. But you know, I think you know, the other part, like you don't necessarily find purpose because you've always had it. It's you rebuild you rebuild it. Like my my my kids are still important, they were important before Janice passed. Yeah, they're still important.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

It I'm how I've refined and rebuilt these things in these ways that I want to kind of lean into with their lives, how I help them through life is is different, right? Um, the part where you are waiting to feel ready, you know, like that can keep you stuck. Right. Like if you sit there and you're like, oh, like what do I do now? Like it's there, like these things are there. Your ability to focus on your kids, your ability to find relationships and lean to it's all there. You wait for kind of the light, so to speak, or the trigger, or the the the chime that wakes you up one day, like you're gonna be stuck for a long time. You've got to get up and start kind of that rebuilding process to find that purpose. Um, and it comes from small steps, but just consistent steps. Like you've got to start the building process. We talk about getting back up, but you also like you you can't you you gotta do it by little simple movements one at a time. And again, you know, those motions, those movements, they start being more and more, they get to a point where they create more meaning for you, right? Like they collectively, each motion feels like it's now part of something. Each thing you do feels like it's part of a bigger thing. I think that's that's the way. Like, otherwise, if you stay still, you kind of keep stepping backwards through this process, like you know, you're never gonna find that purpose. You're never going to refind it. Right. Like, because it's always it's already there.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

And then there's this sense of depression in that situation, maybe that needs to maybe be addressed. You're saying that way. The other theme also in in this kind of finding your your your why again is at first passion feels wrong because maybe it feels selfish to some degree.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Passion sometimes that makes you feel happy.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

And you don't think you should be.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Right. And you feel guilty about that. And so it's gonna feel kind of wrong before it really feels right that you kind of set your routine on what joy can feel like. And as you said, that joy can kind of trigger that sense that ooh, feel guilty in these early stages of I'm not supposed to feel joy yet. Right. So it's is this joy? Is this really a wait? Maybe I'm not allowed to feel that kind of thing. But then really, as you said, also, and and and you talked in your own experience, it makes you feel alive again when you can in participate in finding that why. Right. And feeling alive again can it can kind of feel like this disloyalty to the person who was there with you right all this time. And and that that doesn't feel great, but it's true.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Like, think of all the ways we we talked about in the previous episodes where it's like starting a process of moving date, you know, going a date, going to going to see a funny comedy show. Like all of these ways which happened to me, yeah. Yeah, all of these different ways where you are experiencing joy, and all of them present themselves as guilt and disloyalty.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, yeah. That that growth feels discomforting. Yeah, you know, yeah, but but that but that is symbolizing maybe that growth is happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

You know, and then I think the another another one of the themes is you know, start with what still moves you, right? It it doesn't have to be these big things, right? Just pay attention to something that gives you even a little bit of spark. I talked about you know going to work out, going to a comedy show, going to you know, a happy hour with some friends, right? Like these are all little things. It's are so simple. Yeah, these are it doesn't have to be these major steps, right? Like just start with the small things. Um, you know, okay to it's okay to be curious. Try something new, try something different, make grow. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, you know, make bread, right? Like get into something that you didn't do before. Maybe you do the painting, maybe you do get into painting, right? Like try something different that's going to actually trigger and start the process. Like, yeah, again, the comfortable may feel uncomfortable. So that's fine. Like, if you don't want to jump into that stuff, yeah. The things that you know, right? You like uh this thing used to bring me joy. I don't know if I want to do it. Well, do something, right? Um, and then you know, like you don't need a full vision, right? When people talk about passion or what you want to do, like it doesn't have to be this fully baked, you know, storyline of it, it it it doesn't, it could be small, right? You know, I even with this podcast, like it started small for us, like it started small with man, like just let's just connect and start talking. Yeah, then it was hey, let's maybe we do a small men's group or like whatever it starts it just started, right? I I think those little baby steps helped again, but it's all moving, it's all in the process of kind of stepping forward.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

You're right. That because that is how we did approach it. Yeah, you know, I I had joked about before saying, you know, we're more more like brothers Johnson, the the 70s band. We practice our little songs, we play wherever, and if it's an audience of one, we're gonna play a heart out for them. You'd like stadiums, right? We wouldn't mind the stadiums at one point, because then that also represents us helping so many more people. So but on the flip side of what you said just a moment ago is the pain can point towards your purpose. That's definitely what happened for us and for all of you that yeah, don't use that, yeah, don't bury that because it's going to it's tough, it's supposed to be. It's pain. Yeah, so it can point you to what you what what hurts you deeply may help guide you to help others. Jamal did that for me. We do that within our family and our groups, and there are certain people who call on you and me because they know what we've been through. Yeah, right. Or just we will listen more and we will talk most of the time. Right. So I try to listen a lot. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard sometimes. But it's the idea of the sharing the shared experience creates a real genuine authentic impact with people, and then you see yourself moving along, yourself and others, and then your story becomes what one of survival, and then you hear somebody else's sense of survival, and then they build their kind of guide and guideposts and setting those examples of, as you said, you don't have to have a full plan, and you may fall short, but if you get a few of those things done, yeah, haven't you moved forward?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Well, I mean, if you think about that too, like like how many people expect that you should be in this constant process of briefing and and and and and depression, so to speak, because you've lost. But the flip side of that is people should feel motivated when they see that you've been able to dig out of it. Right. Right, like there's an aspect of that that that you you you should be able to turn that page forward and it should be motivating from people. You know, I think another one is like your your old life informs, right? It doesn't define you. It informs what you should be, who you should, who you should grow up to be, but shouldn't define what you're going to be. Right. I think that's important. Again, like I lost, it's something that happened. It's not who I am, right? Right? How I am maybe part of that as a result, but it doesn't define me, right? And I think you know, you're allowed to to to evolve beyond that experience. We're allowed to evolve beyond the lot to loss and and beyond the grief and beyond the pain. You it's okay to do that. Again, we always talk about it, and I always start the anchor, right? Like you, it's okay to be to honor the past without the anchor holding you down, right? Like you can move forward without that grief, and you can also find purpose without it being something where you feel like you're betraying your late spouse, your family, the memories. Like you're allowed to do that. Like those those experiences are an experience, but it's not who you are in the future. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Another point I want to throw out, we've got we've got a few more of these, are a dozen or so. Is this the sense of structure creates stability? Yeah. We talked about routine in previous episodes, and that when you have that sense of certainty, yeah, that that sense of routine, it rebuilds a sense of control. Oh, I'm able to knock these different tasks out during the day. I went and I worked out, I ate better, I helped out with children with this project, w w whatever it is. Yeah, I think this sense of that routine can help with that, certainly this sense of control. Because that's what you felt you have lost and were look you had no bearings because you didn't have that anchor in a good way with you. Yeah. Meaning that partner to kind of someone foundation, pouring of foundation, maybe is maybe a better way to kind of think about it. Because when you have this sense of discipline, it carries you in motivation is gone. When you have set up this routine, when all else fails, you can go back to what is immediate gratification to a degree of this sense of routine. So you said it a moment ago, said in another way, this idea of these small daily wins reintroduce what confidence looks like for you in your life.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

And and they are small wins. But think about how many times I know for me, you know, waking up Monday morning and I don't want to move. I didn't want to move. Right? Forget, forget before, like you know, nobody wants to move Monday morning. But when you've lost, you have to get up. Shoot, much kids out, right? Most mornings tough. You've got to get these kids out the door and off to school. You've got to get them motivated. Yes. Forget yourself, right? You gotta take everybody and get everybody into the routine. And then you get to Friday and everybody's home, and you don't want to do shit, but you can look back and be like, man, I got through, I got through, I got through the week. Yeah, especially early on after we got a lot of weight loss. I I think the the the other part of that is isolation. You know, they say it's important to like make sure you're connecting with people. The isolation can kill your momentum.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

It's it's the hardest thing to do this by yourself. Yeah. Right. And one thing I've learned is purpose is stronger and grows faster when you have a community. You find it faster. It seems more intentional when you have a community of people who are there to support you, or when your purpose and what you're doing is you're able to do it with somebody like you and I. Like we're doing this together, right? You know, and and you get to find rooms and places where your story and your experience is understood. It's hard to find people in this who always understand what you're going through, but they are out there. There's people who empathize who may not even be talking about their experience. I think that's important is to find those spaces and those places or those people who you know who've gone through what you've gone through. Right. One, they're an example. If they're further in into it, they're an example in some way or the other for you. And likewise, you can be an example and a motivator for them to continue. Um, I think the other part, it helps to normalize it. It helps to normalize the process because you, as you start talking about it, you realize, man, like a sanity check, man. Like I that's how I felt.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Right? It it helps to truly bring context to like what you're going through, is in most cases not significantly different than somebody else. Like, there's somebody else out there who's who's going through that with you.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah, I mean, you're allowed to want more life.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

It it doesn't stop. You're allowed to want the happiness, and you love that person less than you with. So this is this other theme. And you're really expanding your life in a way that honors the person who was there, the person, the love that you had, the relationship that you were trying to build, whether difficult or not, and it survived or would have survived or not, right, uh, if that partner had died in your situation on Twinket and others. So survival is definitely that step one. And then living is step two. Yeah. Fulfilling and fleshing out what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

And then re redefining what fulfilled looks like now. Right. Right. Like you, like, again, like you haven't fundamentally changed, but the accomplishments, the things that you're aspiring to do, the things that you want to do in life, those may have to be refined. They may be have to be, you know, kind of kind of adjusted for better in in positively or negatively. Like you, you, you, you kind of have to think about that. Like old dreams and things that you wanted to do, you want might want to climb Mount Kilimanjaro, that might not, that might be delayed now, right? Or it might not, you might have to climb it, climb a lower mountain. Treacherous. Gibson is is it's if if you're just a single parent and it's just you, you know, less risks. I need to put that motorcycle down, right? Like, you know, back in the garage. I know for me. I know for me, climbing on roofs and cleaning gutters like that became terrifying because I was the backup. Yeah, there was no backup anymore, right? Like it was nobody to if I fell off the ladder, there was nobody to run outside and yell at me and ask me what you're doing. Right. And you know, that now I don't I don't do ladders, right? You know, but like I think you know, you you let the purpose evolve with the current season, and you evolve it, it continues to change. And again, like I said, you know, fulfillment, it may be different, it may be quieter, it may be deeper, right? The things that bring you joy may change, and that's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Let's underscore the point uh earlier about the plan doesn't have to be perfect, right? But don't wait for clarity either.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah. So just you you gotta act upon it. That that's really what it is. It's you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

You sometimes you can't really think through it all. Yeah. Because you're gonna have to adjust it.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

It that that's just how this life is defined now. Try those things. Yeah. Fail a little bit, fail small, you know, to a degree, as small as you can. And adjust as quickly as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Because purpose is built through these lived experiences. And if they're they can't always be perfect, right? That's what lived experience is where do I get up from whatever that small misstep or maybe not the best thought-out conclusive decision and decision making at that time.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah. And I think one thing, right, like you think about you know, kind of in purpose and the and the passions and how they connect to legacy, right? Like, you know, legacy can actually become fuel, right? Like, how do you take these things that you want to bring forward from your late spouse or your late partner or your late family member? How do you bring that forward so that it presents itself? And sometimes it could be unspoken. Yeah. Like everything doesn't have to be this outright homage, but the behavior itself can be a homage. That's right. Right. And you have to think like, what are the things that most that you believe mattered most to your spouse? What do you believe will matter most to your children if you, you know, if if that's part of your grieving process. And then making sure that in that you're building something that ref reflects these shared values that even in the per even in not the not so perfect world, even in the not so perfect relationship, there were shared things that you had that were positive, that you enjoyed, that you were able to bring forward, that you still want to bring forward to your kids' lives, your family's lives, that you're like, hey, like, you know what? I liked that thing that we used to do on this particular holiday. Like, I'm I'm gonna incorporate that. Yeah. Right. And and I and now you have a recollection and a story behind it, and it's and it's meaningful in that context. And, you know, I think this is an is an important one. Like, let love be a driver, not just a memory. Right? Like at the end of the day, all of these experiences, all of this process was formed and founded by love. By love, right? Like, the reason why it's difficult to get back up, the reason why it's difficult to find the routine is because you're weighted down by this lingering love in many cases that you don't know how to process and you don't know how to take it to the next level. And I think that's an important, you know, an important kind of step in understanding that just because you feel this doesn't mean that it has to just kind of stay, stay there.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

It it can be something that helps you move, you know, move toward the passion and yeah, and I think especially when you're in a relationship that didn't ascend to the place that you had anticipated. Your original planning and the reason why you came together, it didn't necessarily get to that height that you had anticipated. Yeah. And then it's that moving forward, well, how's that going to look as I enter into another lived experience and life experience with someone else who I have a meaningful relationship with? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah. Yeah. I mean if if if There's one thing to take from all of this. It's you know, this is a process. The purpose in the passion, it doesn't just show up. Right. It's not like you're gonna wake up one day and like, aha, I've got it.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Right? Like it's it's something that comes with time. And like you said, it's the small moments, it's the small, it's the small movements, it's long conversations, it's there's no real aha moment.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Yeah, you're you're you're building it, yeah, piece by piece, choice by choice.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and and even if it's something that's not familiar, you know, that's that you know may feel uncomfortable at first or unnatural, like it's it's it's there.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah, and and and that that discomfort is an indication potentially of of of growth. That's that's usually the signal that that you are growing, that uh at least you're not stuck.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Yeah. And I think that's you know, I I remember people saying things like, Oh, you didn't do that before, you're you're different. It's you're the same person, you have a new motivator, new new motivation, maybe a new passion, but you're still you know the same person back again, back at the core.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

It also shows you're carrying what mattered. Yeah, you're you're gonna carry that forward with you as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Yeah. So from grief to growth and from loss to living, it's it's it's it's it's the work, it's a process.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yeah, I think we think it's worth it for sure.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Yeah, yeah. So thank you again for joining us on getting back up, finding life after death. We appreciate you joining us. Like us, subscribe, the heart, the thumbs up, all the things, comments, comments, and and and hit us on the number if that's more comfortable and easier for you. Yeah, we look forward to hearing from you.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Definitely. And we want to do that comment and feedback episode again. We had a good time with that. Yeah, so keep those coming because we that should be coming at some point soon down the road. So, again, Jamal and I, thank you so much for tuning in to us each week.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on Getting Back Up, finding life after death. If something in today's episode spoke to you, pass it on because somebody out there needs to hear this.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

For sure. We're on all the social mausoleums. So follow us on Instagram, Reds, TikTok. Mostly it will be in the form of Get Back Up podcast.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

And be sure to subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And remember, getting knocked down is part of life.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

But getting back up is how we live. We'll see y'all next time.