38: When Your Child Has an Emergency — Why It Hits Different After Loss

Episode 38: When Your Child Has an Emergency — Why It Hits Different After Loss

There’s a moment every parent dreads—the call you weren’t expecting… the one that makes your heart drop before you even have the full story. 

In this episode, Jamal and David open up about their first real “emergency” moments with their daughters—times when they weren’t there, couldn’t get there fast enough, and had to sit in the space between fear and truth. From a kitchen fire scare to a child passing out in public, they unpack what it feels like to face that helplessness—and how quickly your mind jumps to the worst-case scenario.

But for widowed parents, those moments hit differently. An emergency doesn’t just bring fear—it can reopen the emotional memory of the moment you first lost your spouse. The same helplessness. The same urgency. The same need to get there now. Jamal and David reflect on how these experiences resurface old trauma, the weight of being the only parent in the moment, and the quiet pressure of knowing everything now falls on you.

This conversation also moves into preparation—how to teach kids awareness without fear, how to navigate public safety, and how to handle those moments when you simply can’t get to them right away. Because sometimes the lesson isn’t just in what happened… it’s in what it made you feel again—and how you respond moving forward.

Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death is a podcast that explores the raw, unfiltered reality of surviving profound personal loss—and finding a way forward.  The idea for the podcast was born after David and Jamal met in 2023. Both widowers, who had lost their wives to cancer, quickly found a deep connection through multiple conversations about pain, perseverance, and parenthood. They realized that while men often bond over music, sports, or TV, they rarely speak candidly about loss or emotional recovery. Getting Back Up was created to change that narrative—blending the everyday with the existential in a format that’s as relatable as it is real. 

Getting knocked down is part of life. Getting back up is how we live. 

Hosts: David McClain & Jamal Jones
Executive Directors: Marlon Jackson & Ted Winners (Like A Gazelle Productions)
Editing: Marlon Jackson
Music: 
Grenada, "Treasure" 
McDonald, Otis, "Phife for Life", otismusic.com

Thank you for listening! Follow us on Instagram/TikTok @getbackuppodcast and on X @GBUpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Getting Back Up with Greece Meet Growth. Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

We're talking about life after cancer, love, loss, and everything no one tells you. How are you doing? I'm Jamal Jones. And I'm David McClain. We welcome you back to Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death. Jamal, I've got a tale for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Yeah, I I had one of those moments where those that emergency call came in.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Ooh, the first he's talking about the first uh emergencies or those first critical calls that you get, in particular after your late wife passes or after your partner passes.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

And you get that scare.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, and and it's that 20 minutes away that you're away from things and can't get to the people involved. So yeah, it was it was a tough one in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

20 minutes away, that's that feels like a long time, especially when when it's your child.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Yeah, I mean it may be, but but it it it's it's your mind telling you it's much further away, especially when you don't know what's going on in that situation. And all you're thinking about is getting there. It's just real, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah. And you feel helpless. And I'm glad we're talking about this, because this is something, honestly, that a lot of parents, in particular as we say, men, don't talk about, right? Like that gap, like that time between the phone call and the truth, like like figuring out what's really going on, like your mind is spinning. It's going all over the place. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's where it's like, you know, you you gotta have these conversations. Unfortunately, emergencies happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah. Yeah. And it was the for the oldest daughter, and then you realize you believe you teach them a lot to go out in that world, but and you think you prepare them as much as you possibly can. But once they enter into those public spaces, man, it's it's something different.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah, and and you wanna, yes, you try to give them all these lessons, but you you just want to prepare them to figure out how to go through these, get them through these moments so that everybody gets home safely. Everybody's good at the end of the day. Yeah. So but uh listen, before you jump, because I know your this your stories, this this situation is kind of heavy. I want to kind of jump into my. I have I have a good one that it was literally, I think it was might have been one of the first, you know, emergency calls that I got. And so I'm out one day. This is literally a few months after, it was probably about a year after after Janice, my late wife, passed away. And I'm out at Costco because I got a membership. Probably like 20 20 years, I think I've had a membership. Okay. And every time I want to cancel it, it for some reason I just like I well, I I buy the gallon size of olive oil. So you know, for because I'm I'm always cooking, frying something.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

So but and baking and other I'm not on our wellness plan.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I'm not one dimension. Yeah, yeah, I'm not one one dimensional here. So so you know, I'm I think you know, I'm cooking, I'm at Costco, loading up everything in the car, I get into the car, and I see like three missed calls from from Jackie, my my oldest. Yeah. Um, and I'm like, why is she what's going on? So I finally get situated and I call her and I'm like, hey, what's going on? She's like, Dad, dad, everything's okay. Right. And and at this point, Jackie's probably like 15. She's like, Don't worry, everything's okay. The the fire, the uh the fire department just got here. And I'm like, what are you what are you talking about? The fire department just got here. She's like, okay, well, you know, there was a little situation in the kitchen, and you know, they're old enough. Jackie's cooking, you know, the kids cook occasionally. I try to tell them, like, limit what you're doing until I'm home.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And, you know, she's like, Well, you know, well, Zaya, she was using the microwave, and you know, I came downstairs and I heard their file arms, and and you know, and and she feels so so Zaya is at the time, she's probably 10, right? Okay, okay. So I'm I'm walking in, I'm like, okay, well, hold on. Wait, and so hold on, Dad. The the fire department wants to talk to you. And I'm like, wait, what? So I get on the phone and the fire, hey, Mr. Mr. Jones. I'm like, yeah, it's like, oh, you know, verifies the address. Are these your children? Yeah, this. I just went to the grocery store, you know, and they're like, No, no, no problem. We just, you know, you know, your your daughter called the fire department, and listen, she did everything right. She, I mean, listen, if she needs a job, we're hired. And I'm like, okay, thank you. This is funny, ha ha. Like, what's going on? Like, my kids are okay. And he's like, No, no, they're fine, they're fine. She opened the windows, and so there's no, you know, low smoke damage. And and I'm like, smoke damage, like, shoot, you know, and and he's like, You you might have some cleaning up to do, but and I'm like, oh God, come on. So finally, I'm I'm I'm getting again. This is a long ride. I'm 20 minutes. I'm calling my my my sister-in-law because she doesn't live too far. I'm like, okay, can you get to the kids? Can you get to the kids? She's like, I'm busy, I'm like, oh man. Oh wow. So finally I get there, fire departments, like they're rolling out, rolling down the street. Yeah. As I'm like, man, y'all ain't even waiting until the parents get home. Like, I get to the front of the house, my neighbors are standing out there, and I'm like, oh hell. Like now I gotta deal with the embarrassment. Like, hey, you you want that kid? What kind of parent are you?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Isn't that true, Garthri? Why does he live?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

So I'm like, so I walk in, they like, everything's okay, everything okay. And I'm like, oh, thank Dick. I run in the house and Jackie's standing in the living room, and she's just staring at me, and Zia's just staring there, like looking guilty, like something. Yeah. I walk in, and I'm like, what happened? Kitchen is a mess. Oh wow. Like when it's cold. It's like winter. Oh boy. Right. And it's Austin, so it ain't freezing, but it's it's like 30, 40 degrees in the house. Yeah. Hold all the windows on the first floor open. And what'd the kitchen look like? Like, oh, it's literally covered in fire retardant. Oh, really? So Jackie, she did the right thing. Okay. She un she unleashed the fire extinguisher, which I always reminded her. Here's where the fire extinguisher is. That's good. And they used it. She knew how to pop the pen out. Yeah. Great job. Wow. But I mean, the the the fire, there's fire retardant everywhere. All over the kitchen. Oh man. The microwave looked like it's crazy. So Zaya heard me and I think Jordan and I. It was like one of the first times we hung out with the kids, and somehow we were talking about things we used to do as kids. Jordan knew who you were. Jordan Jordan was now. So we're we're we were talking about like, you know, back in the day, you put microwave in the the bag, the chip bag in the microwave would shrink. I don't know. It was guess it was made of plastic and not metal. So a potato chip bag or something was just thrown in like an experiment or something. So she throws the bag in the microwave to see if it would shrink. Oh boy. But these bags are made of metal, metal, so it lights the microwave. Oh my goodness. Fire and everything. So I'm looking at her like you ain't allowed to touch the microwave. You ain't allowed a bag of chips, a snack. Don't even look in the kitchen for like the next two months. You're grounded. Yeah. Right. So you said all that. Oh, yeah, I said all of that. Okay. So because the and we told her, like, don't try anything crazy without talking to me or Lily, at least Jackie, she's older. She'll be like, nah, don't do that. Right. So I'm like, okay, you know, it's, you know, nothing crazy. Yeah. Nobody's harmed. We're not in the hospital. But it was the craziest 20 minutes of like just taking the time to like get to the house to see if the kids were okay. Not fully knowing what the situation was until you got there. Right. And then and how they were. And how they were. Like, you know, thankfully they Jackie did a great job of handling the situation. Like she got the A plus. Zaya was on, you know, was in punishment. You got to like hand out the lessons. Um, I don't, I I think she's still afraid. She's 16. I think she's still like 40 using that microwave.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So the 16-year-old is now one who's now 16. She's afraid to even anything outside 30 seconds. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

So And it's got to be hard food.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah, she ain't playing. Not anything synthetic or whatever. No, no, she ain't no, you know, chip bags. We haven't seen that since then. That's good. So but I say all that to say, like, it even in the humor of it, yeah, I could laugh at it now, but in the moment, man, that was the longest drive. And then walk into the house was like the biggest fear. Even when I heard voices on the phone, you still want to lay eyes on your kids to make sure that they're okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

But, you know, that was And it says something about how you have trained the girls to say, hey, this is if I'm not here, or this is how we deal with things. And so they were right at the end.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

I had always told Jackie, if you feel it's an emergency, call a police department, call 911 first, then call me. And you keep calling me until I call you back. Yes. And she did that, right? And she followed the rules, and and and they all know that. But I say all that to say it's like the lessons that we teach and these emergencies. But your story is a little bit, you know, a little not a lot, not a whole lot of laughter. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

No. You're right about that. So this not too long ago, but one of the aunties had called me to their so the girls' niece, or I should say their cousin, so niece to the to the auntie, that they hadn't hung out in a while and they wanted to go just go to this big mall and just do what they do and just kind of shop and whatever. And I fantastic, because they hadn't seen each other in a while, and it gives me a break. And with the woman I'm dating now, that we could spend some time together. And actually, I was going to an event with her for her son. Right. And so I could see how what that was and how I kind of fit into that setting and whatever. I'm like, perfect. So it was a matter of, all right, so I'll take my two girls over to the mall to meet the auntie and then also their cousin, essentially. They could go do what they needed to do and hang out and whatever. I was like, great. And then I was gonna be 20 minutes away at this function with with the woman that that I am dating. Yeah. So I dropped my two girls off. As I mentioned, I go to my event and I'm I'm there and I want to be present and and everything. And you know, my my phone starts to ring, a couple of my friends at call, they'll let that go. You know, it's like I'm at his event, I'll I'll talk to these people later. But then I got a call from the auntie who was with my girls, and so their cousin. Right. I said, ooh, she wouldn't normally call me unless this is serious.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

So I kind of did the tab, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Don't let let the woman you're dating though.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yeah, exactly. Not, you know, right up in front, you know, and you know, that's not cool. So I went off to the side and and she said, Miela, my oldest, has collapsed. What? She's passed out. What what what do you mean? She's passed out. She's fine. At the mall. At the mall. Wow. And so I she said, she's fine. We we gave her some food and she's okay. And then kind of Auntie had said to to Miela, my the oldest who had had passed out, um, did you want did you want your dad to pick you up? Did you want to stay with us? But you you want dad to pick you up? Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

So it so it's serious enough that that she wants you to come and get it. I'm on the way. Yeah. Because which you probably would have gone even if she didn't want to.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, I just went back and I did the whole dimples and charm and to everybody and and to the woman I'm with. And and as I think I mentioned to you at one point that this woman I'm dating is very much like my mom, where it's trying to leave church with your mom, and she has to talk to everybody and is man, we go eat. I mean, I'm stuck, you know, is that kind of that kind of exit? It's the essential, it's the half hour goodbye before you actually want to leave. Five minutes. We're gonna leave in five minutes, it jumps 30 minutes type of thing. But she was ready to go. I think. Yeah, she kind of sensed probably where you were too.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

And she kind of, because I my demeanor changed, less dimples and charm at that point. It was focus and direct it. I can picture you. You because you know me. You're standing there tight, like, oh yeah, yeah. I'm like, all right. You know, it was just ooh, what happened? So I'm pulling her and I tell her what has happened. And so we're leaving going to the car, and I had driven, so I said, let me let me drop you off to and my voice is very much like this. And I I I'm gonna need to drop you off and go get Miella and and understand what's going on. Yeah. Okay, and she's trying, she doesn't know what to do in that situation. Because she's still you're still processing this. Yeah. I'm like, I don't truly know. Yes, you told me my child is okay on the phone, but I have to feel and touch and see and understand exactly how she is okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

The emotion because in every time that you think, oh, you know what, I'm gonna let drop my daughter off here. There's a part of you that's there's a small part of you, so it's like, I'm not ready yet. Yes. I'm not ready.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Exactly. Exactly. And it's made easier when you have a partner who can also aid in making sure safety and all these other things. Yeah. So I she's trying to. Do you want to talk? No, I I really don't want to talk. And so and and this was going through the seasons again of, and she is very responsible, very competent. She has her own balancing act as it relates to her household and her children and what she teaches them and what have you. So I think this was the first time she is realizing how weighty this situation was for me post-losing my late wife. Right. Drop her off. I'm driving this, making up that 20 minutes, thinking about what I'm gonna say or do, what can I see? Right, right, you know, keep it under the speed limit and be cool about it, you know. And so I get there and they bring Miela down and Kara, her sister, comes as well, and then the cousin comes down. Okay. And so Miela kind of looks at me a little smirk, hi dad, and walks up to me, and I just do the You don't say anything, you know, because I don't have to yell or anything. You just it's that look. It's just right.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Right. This is what I say, you know, you don't, you don't talk about right.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

You know, something's up. Something's gonna happen, you know. And I'm thinking of the conversation that I'm going to have with her. I'm not gonna have it in the car. Cause she ain't gonna listen when I'm in the car and and saying all what am I gonna say once we get home to the house? So we pull up to the house, come sit at the table in my kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Our kitchen, I suppose. Yeah. So you kept it quiet the whole ride.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Oh, yeah, brother.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Was there any conversation, or you were just like, I just no, just a little. I said, I said you're very lucky. It's like you'd be like, You got a good time.

unknown 15:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Almost meaning, I don't know when you're gonna have a good time again. After this, right? I don't know if good times are in the future anymore. So anyway, I get her home, I sit sit down at the table, and I said, Miela, the events that happened earlier today could have been avoided. Last night, you so you passed out in this mall where you all were and it was a lack of food. You had not eaten. Last night I had made a meal, you chose not to eat. Right. But you know how to cook. I said, do cook that or warm up this or whatever. Throw something in the oven. Throw something in the oven, whatever, Mike, what whatever. She didn't want to do that. I said, Mill, you gotta eat. Right. She chooses not to. So she didn't eat breakfast. She didn't eat breakfast. She didn't eat dinner and she didn't eat breakfast that next morning. Anything. We got protein bars, we we got plenty to at least put something in your stomach. She got cereal that she buys and all of that. She didn't eat anything. Her sister ate and got up early, had her little waffles going and all like that. Miela chose not to eat. So I said, Miela, you are a growing young woman. Right. You need fuel in your body. You can't be out running around and not have something in your body. Right. Because see what happens when you don't put fuel in your body. You passed out. And then a stranger. So that's so she didn't it was a stranger. She had separated from the the group to go do whatever very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

But she passed out, a stranger founder and stayed with her. That could have gone. And so how did the stranger connect with I think it was a call to the auntie or something.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Oh, okay. And so I said to Miela, you are so fortunate that you had someone who cared enough to stay with you until her people could come to your aid. So I said, there are a lot of people who are strangers and will not take care of you, and they can take off with you because this sex trafficking is real. These little cute girls and your little cute friends and stuff, it's an opportunity for those people.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I mean, there's crazy people out there doing who are walking around just you know, looking for opportunity to take advantage of somebody.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Exactly. Exactly. And I said, they could have taken you away and done unspeakable. What was her what was her response when you stood up that? She she was more she was before it's more like whatever dad kind of but then it's like oh yeah, okay. And so I mentioned that, and then I had just said about you need to know all of y'all need to know where each other at all times are at whatever time. Yeah. And that can't happen. When you separate, folk got to know where you are.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Right. Especially at the I mean, that's listen, like I know adult women who are like, I'm, you know, they go to hang out at a restaurant, a bar, and I go to a restroom, I'll go with you. Right. Anybody want to go with me? Because that's a that's that's that's a safety thing. They don't know what you're gonna deal with. Like that's that's uh I mean these are but these are important lessons that and I mean I hate to say it, but we gotta fight, you know, strike the fear of God into our daughters to make sure that they know just real world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, yeah. And and then the thing I said to her is I'm I know these calls are going to come right now that your mother has gone anyway. Yeah. And these emergencies are going to happen. And you have to understand, Miella, that I felt helpless and powerless because I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

And that's a real 20 minutes away. And there's a recall for you on that one.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah. Because all at in that moment, all those feelings came back when I got that call when Nalani was in the hospital. Yeah. And I was in therapy in, you know, where we live. And it would take me 20 minutes to get back into the city where she was in the hospital in in New York City, yeah, where she was getting all of her care. When when she was there with another one of the play aunties, one of my good friends. Right. And to know at that time when Nalani was in the hospital, she even said to herself, I'm not going home, am I? So I'm all those feelings flooded right back. And I said to Miela, that's something I have to deal with. Right. These calls are gonna come anyway. Right. But at that moment, I felt all that and went right back to that time when I got that call from one of the aunties when Nalani was in the emergency room and she wasn't coming home. Yeah. So when I said, Miela, that's for me to deal with. Right. I have to deal with that. And she stood up, she understood.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

And I think there's a part, right, where in the grieving process is a family, and it's a responsibility we have to put onto our children to understand that the decisions they make don't only affect them. Yep. Right. That we're all accountable. You're accountable to their safety and mental health and grieving process as well, as much as they're accountable at their particular ages of understanding here are the right things that I need to do. Yep. Right. To take pressure off my dad of having to worry about me, to make things easier for for him at certain in certain capacities. Again, age appropriate. We're not asking them to be adults, but we are asking them to be aware of certain things. So, I mean that what was her like so her response.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Did she like really hear you when when you She heard me in that moment, but we know how our children are. It's gonna be forgotten because the emergency has passed. Yeah. And they just go on to the routine just as if There'll be something else.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

But it I mean, I think you you at least we know. Because I know I at least I feel like with with with Zaya, my 16-year-old, there are times, you know, same thing. She does used to do the same thing. Yep. Come home at the end of the day and look, I'm like, look pale. I'm like, are you all right? I'm hungry. I didn't eat all day. And I'm like, come on. Why are you not? Oh, I didn't like the lunch, the school. Let's take a ball. I don't like bars. Let's take a granola bar. I don't like granola bars. Our picky children. I'm like, what? Okay, quit. So now I'm like, listen, like every Saturday, Sunday, Saturday, we're like playing in the grocery list. Like you can tell us what you want or come with us so you could pack pick out your things. And in that part, at least now she leaves the house and she's, you know, we buy her these little smoothies and you know, peanut butter crackers. I'm like something. I don't care what it is at this point. A pack of gummies. Something. Something. Right? But yeah, that's uh Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

And so when some my youngest came home after that, Kara, and then also her cousin, their cousin, came home. And I said the same thing I said to Miyala to them. So that they it was a broadcast message. Everybody is aware that there is this sense of care for all of y'all. And the same message should be said to the other, to, to everyone. Right. Because it's going to, they're gonna hear it differently anyway. Yeah. But you need to know these things are going on, interpret it the way you need to, but understand the reality is there's there's a lot to fear and think about. Right. And we're doing our best to protect you from that, but some of that stuff, it's it just happens too often.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

And and we have to have these conversations with our daughters and our sons. Yeah. Like, like we have to let them know that hey, this is something we all have to be responsible. I need you to hold these things responsible. First and foremost, I need you to take care of yourself. Oh, yeah. That's it. Take care of yourself. Yeah. There's a whole bunch of food in this house. If there's not enough, let me know. If something you don't like, let me know. The things you need for your physical care, your health care, your clothes, like these things, like we I need you to be on that so I can cover everything.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

It also speaks to one of our prior episodes where we're talking about our children moving in our our role in their lives that we were so much protector, which we always will be, but now it's more guidance. Yes. Especially because it's older. Trying to give them this freedom. Yeah, exactly, because that's going to happen. But let me just kind of bookend that the story. I was on the train commuting back, and it's like the same later on. In that later in that week, okay, which was very interesting. And we live in an area where we commute back to the town and an area like a corridor where there's a lot of construction, new rails, and it used to be seven rails, now it's two or whatever. So they cancel a lot of trains on the way back. So I was on one of those canceled, very crowded trains. There were no seats. So you're sitting in between the cars, like kind of shimmy and rock and shake and all that. So I'm in that middle area and with some other people, and there are two other young women, one who was pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

And then there was another dude who was standing right in front where the window is, and I'm looking this way, and there's that pregnant woman kind of right behind me on my right shoulder. And I just took notice of her. She didn't look great. There was something. I mean, first of all, she's standing up and why is she- And she's standing up and pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

So it's kind of, come on, folk, what's what's going on? I don't know what's happening. Like, yeah, there ain't no more good Samaritans, like, not a lot of good Samaritans.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Well, you're right, but I guess you find the right ones, especially in this situation. So we're going along, the trains moving slowly because of all of the delays of all the trains and the schedules of getting out not only Amtrak, but then also the regional trains that are going back to New Jersey, where we live. And so then I just see she's a little uneasy and she grabs my arm all of a sudden. I'm about to pass out. I was like, oh, and I grab her, and before she's falling down, and I sit her down on the what was cold and where air is coming in. And there was this man kind of standing there and kind of in the way and 250 and whatever. And I'm like, hey man, you're gonna need to move. And he's he's kind of stuck in place, and I grabbed him, you know, like this at a blow, man. Hey, man, you know, and he went over that. Well, I'm calm, you know, me and everything. And so he gets out of the way, and then it's packed either way. Remember, I'm in between the cars. Yeah, there's the door that closes on both sides. Okay. And so then I tapped somebody on both sides. I said, Listen, tell the conductor that we have a situation here and all that, and everybody's kind of looking around, and then I had to do that parental voice. What I need you to do is tell the next person to bring the conductor here. And I said it on both sides, and then you know, they And finally people are like, oh, okay. They become 12 again and hear, they start to hear, you know. So then two RNs come and help the young woman. Okay, how you doing? Oh, yeah. Uh you're are you pregnant? Okay, how far along? Okay, have you had much water today? No, okay, all right. And so they're just going through the steps calming everything down and everything. Wonderful. Just wonderful. This conductor comes. So there are a few. There's some there are some they respond at the right time. Yeah. Samaritans they respond at the right time. So that was handled, and we went multiple stops, and and we talked to the young woman. Hey, do you have somebody who can get you at your stop? Yeah, yeah. I my my husband's gonna be there. Okay, good, good. You know, and I'm all the while I was I could take it off her jacket and host so she could breathe and whatever. She's like, Thank you very much. Knowing to me, but the RF doing most of the work and whatever. And then folks are getting off at the different stops, and they're, you guys did a great job. Hey, man, you could have done something. Don't tell me that's what I'm thinking. Right. I didn't say that to her. But like, come on, come on. Yeah. So anyway, one of the nurses get off, and then the other one gets off at my stop. And whoa, that was uh some kind of some kind of uh incident there. Yeah, yeah. And we just said goodbye, and that was it. So my feeling was someone took care of my child four days ago, a stranger. Right. I've got to then jump into action as well. It just happened.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

And that's just the way I see it is that that idea of paying it forward essentially, but it's really about someone's gonna has taken care of my child. I need to do the same for somebody else's child.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

And that's I mean that and and the and the story is is is great there because in our and and when we're on the flip side of the emergency, we're thinking the worst. What if somebody tried to hurt our daughter? Yeah. What if somebody tried to take advantage of them? That's right. But there is scenarios like this one where people are on the other side of this. And yeah, they some people may need some prodding to to jump into action, but some people like yourself, like those nurses, like like they jump into action in a positive light. Right. And that's the stories you want to hear. But it also allows you to also reflect on, man, this thing that happened to my family a few weeks, a few days ago, right? I have to now now have the opportunity to pay it forward to your point. Yeah. Like somebody took took the time to sit with my daughter. That's right. When when in my in my in my angst and my worry, I was thinking the worst, what if, what if, what if. But the reality is somebody was there to hold her hand, right? Like you did with this, this woman. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

So right. And others coming to her aid.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah. You know. But I mean, I think I think what this does though, I mean, I think it does allow you to s right really connect on the reality. Like, yes, there your ability to pay back, pay it forward. But I mean, the reality of like the situation with Miela was it's it's a crazy society. Yeah. And not everybody is gonna be joyfully with the best intention sitting there willing to hold a hand when it's in somebody's moment of need. Right? Somebody's gonna be there and doing something different. Yeah. Looking for right, and that is it's it's it's more rare. It's it's not as rare as we think, right? And I think that's the scary part.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah, I think the the harm that can become our children, uh girls in particular, because we raise girls to be independent. Yeah. Women, but women and women specifically, as we think about the sex trafficking that is happening, thousands to millions of young women and boys are taken every year. And it's not just the person that that you know or that person in the van and all of that. It's it's this real grooming and manipulation that leads to this abduction.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like to your point, like we we grew up in a in a period of time where it was always the person in the uh, you know, the person in the van or don't accept candy from strangers. Exactly, right? And the reality is that it is different now, like with social media, with you know, so much around just internet access that isn't isn't the person right next door. And sometimes it is the person, sometimes it is somebody in the neighborhood, sometimes it's somebody on social media, right? Somebody on a on an app who's or or on a game, right? Because you got these elements where people on video games can communicate, like the whole dynamic of you know, adults on video games pretending to be kids and grooming art, you know, grooming other kids into meeting them someplace or sending them pictures or whatever. Like this is that's then I I hate to say I wish it was still the person in a van. Because they're easy identifies. It's easier intimate. Like, don't get in that. If there's a black van with 10 windows, don't get in that. Like, do not like you can at least say to your kids, only accept rides from you know, right, friends in the family or your like this group of people. It's no longer that.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

And and we don't know what the geographic and physical corridors for sex trafficking actually are because it's any opposite. Yeah, yeah. So so we want to kind of give you all some thoughts. We kind of looked into maybe what you could maybe guidance for your children, just some statistics as well to a certain degree, but more so about the just to expand on this whole idea of keeping your your your children safe.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Especially as, again, especially as a widower. Yeah. Or a widow who just lost the second half of your security system.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yeah. You you just need some amount of assurance that there are people out there andor advice you can give your children that keep them as safe as possible. And I think this the first one really is this teaching them awareness and and not fear. It and you you have to use simple language and it has to be age appropriate with with your children. You say to them something along the lines of of trusting your feelings. If something feels off, it probably is you know, and so it in those conversations to a degree it's almost this role play with your children. If you talk about if you're lost in a store, what do you do? What are the things that you need to do? Who do you need to contact? If you're approached by an adult you don't know, do you really respond to them? They don't know you. Right. So it's having those kinds of situations where you can practice, well, what you what you may need to do. Yeah. And I think also if you underscore with the children that safer adults are are not the ones that ask you for help.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Like, I mean, I had to, I I often talk to my daughter sometimes and I'm like, well, why were you late? Oh, I had to help, you know, a friend do this or this friend to do that. Okay, cool. But then when it starts getting, I had to help an adult do something. Then, you know, I had to stop and well, I didn't get to do like those are the times where you have to flag the risk. Right. Because to your point, adults should not be asking little kids. I'm not going, I'm not gonna ask my friends' wives for help. Like they adults, like, because I don't want to like it's just so the impropriety. Like, I'm just it's like you you just have to be, it's to your point, like what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. So I think a good one too is like what are the public safety habits, right? So I think yeah, the situation with Miella was a good one, like staying together in groups, like always get in the habit when you're go out with your friends, like stay in a group so that you are what is this safety and numbers.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

That's like that's what they always say. Yeah. And I think the other part is like, where are you like where are you going? Avoid places that are dark and isolated, empty parking lots, you know, parking garages, stairways, like tr make sure like you're telling your daughters, especially to stay in places where there's a lot of visibility. Yeah. Where if you do, you know, get encountered by somebody acting crazy or something, you you can out yell out loud, make a scene, and ask for help. And and plus your friends, if you're there together with your friends, even better.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Um, and then like the whole like, oh, my battery died, but nah, that phone needs to be charged.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

And you know, that's that's all they're thinking about as they move around anyway, fully charged.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

And and um, I mean, I think we as as fathers and parents have to get in the habit of like before our kids are leave even thinking about leaving the house, is your battery charged? Your cell phone charged? Like, those are things like we just basic preparedness things. Like, you know, just and then using location services. Oh, yeah. I mean, I a lot of people shun it. A lot of people think about it in a sense, oh, it's an invasion of privacy. You can have that internal conversation with yourself, but I think there's an element where we have to have the conversation with our kids, whereas I need you to be available to let me know where you are all the time. Right. If I miss your phone call or you miss my phone call, somehow, somehow, I should be able to pop up and see that you are where you said you were gonna be. Right. Right. And you know, like I j, you know, my daughter right now, she'll, you know, she she doesn't, we've gotten her to that to that point where she doesn't mind sharing her, but even worse, I say worse for me sometimes. She'll shake my location or my wife's or Jordan's location and be like, oh, you guys are close. Can you guys, you guys are home? Yeah, you can you come and give me a ride?

SPEAKER_02 37:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Right. And I'm like, well, I didn't, it's not for that.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Right. Or or the other one for me is they know how much time they have before I'm home before clean up the house. Yeah. Dad's on his way. Exactly. Get in the shower, or whatever it is, sort of. Yeah. But and also it's a it's a check too that at least you know their last location if something happens. Right. If a if a if a battery does at least, right. At least that. So it it helps, God forbid, something like that happens. Yeah. I think the other one, the the next kind of area to to to make safe kids is this this this one's this one's a little tougher. Uh and they have to really kind of critically think about this, maybe to a degree is this idea of safe strangers. Well, what who are safe strangers? Right. Parents with kids could be a store clerk, someone related, the store security member there, somebody in a uniform, police officer. Right. Exactly, exactly. And then it may, may make sense to have a code word with your children just in case when you're calling them, so they give you something and you understand something is wrong. Yeah. So some make up something with your kids that makes a lot of sense that something that you I think that's a good idea because you you know you you don't want them to be running around screaming fire.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Right. Right. But you do want to give them a place where they can comfortably call you or text you and let you know in the statement, in the simple word, this is how I'm feeling. Yep. That I don't like this situation. Right. And I think it's a calm way for one, they can stay calm and just say, hey, when I use this word or this phrase, and you let them know, like, I'm at your full attention. I'm I'm a parent. As a parent, I'm dropping whatever I'm doing to be there with you to virtually hold your hand right so that we can get you into a safe position.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Right. For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Which which also leads to this idea of they should never go anywhere without the parent understanding where they are. Yeah. I mean, that's old school, but it still works today.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Listen, if my if uh you know, I'll same thing. Like, if the kids are saying you uh you the rule I grew up with was you are where you tell me you were gonna be. And if you deviate from that, I need a phone call.

unknown 39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Right. That's it. Yeah. And it's not a hey, I'm telling you, is it okay if I go and do this thing? Right. Or is it okay if this my someone, my friend's parents gonna take me and said they're gonna take this here? Sure, you can go. No problem, but at least it's a conversation. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Um, no, I think the the other part too is like, you know, the trafficking reality, right? Like, and again, like keeping it grounded but not fear-based. But like, I think when you think about like most, like there's so much around trafficking, kidnapping, people, like all these different situations. Yeah, like most a lot of times they know, like a lot of times this has gotten so savvy you hear of people being groomed into it. Yeah, right. Somebody whose sister or brother or friend knew somebody, they say they're gonna take us here, or next to you know, like you're absorbed and pulled into this world. So a lot of times that occurs. Yes, our fear is you know, our daughter passes out and somebody, you know, carries them over the shoulder down the hall. But there's a world where this is happening and there's a network of people participating in it. Yeah, and this is where we want our children to be careful with who they are interact with. And like you said earlier, if it doesn't feel right, that's probably not right. Yeah, you know, um, online platforms, gaming, social apps. We talked about this. Just be careful how we get, you know, let your children be careful of how they're sharing information, what they're telling people about them. Are you plugged into these app forms, these processes, these apps, and figuring out like what are what is my kid doing? What is my kid playing? Who is my child talking to? Like I do listen, I'll my daughter will be on her phone right now, and I'm like, who you talking to? It should look at me crazy. I'm sorry. That's my phone.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

And you're my phone, that's my computer, that's my like all that is mine. When you turn 18, you pay your own bills, you buy your own shit. Like, then you don't have to, then we can have a different conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I think that's the part where like you have to be and be understand and know that. Um, and then the other piece is you know, sometimes they pose as peers, kind of like what I said. They are s becoming so savvy. Yeah. And using people who they've groomed to groom others, right? And create the network. It's the whole Epstein thing, right? Like so much of that was like friends who recruited, yeah, right? Um and and it's an after school special we've seen, but it's based in reality. It is based in reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I think those are important things that we have to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Right. And I think just to kind of close out this keeping our children safe and this idea of trafficking is just kind of these practical parental moves. Know your child's daily routines and their routes, what they're doing, what their schedule looks like. And I think also an example, I know this is something you probably do as well, is there are very specific pickup points I have for the children. Yeah. If you're not there at that certain time, I need a call or something. Uh then we need to do something else if it's if it seems to be serious. So it's just that kind of thing. This regular checking in with your child without being overbearing. Right. It's just a reach out. It doesn't have to be, are you in? It's hey, how are things going? What do you what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

It's a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Because even, I mean, as they progress, well, especially once your child hits middle school, you want them to feel this growing element of trust between them and their parent, this growing element of independence that this growing element that they're becoming young women or young men with the trust that they and the openness that they have to share information with us, for us to comfortably ask something, and for us to have a dialogue. Yeah. Right. About like, okay, what's appropriate, what's safe, what's cool, what's not. And it'd be okay to have that discussion.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Yeah, absolutely. Because then also along those same lines, we kind of mentioned it before, but it bears repeating, is you're teaching them to share this location without feeling that you're controlling them or they feel like they're being controlled by you. You're right. It's within a conversation, it's within the context of we're all in this together. Yeah. I want you to be safe. Yeah. That's all I really care about. Yeah. Yeah. And just normalizing that conversation. Particularly when they get into trouble. That you can always call me for anything. Not that you're in trouble. Right. Now, if something leads to something where there are repercussions and all the other, well, we're gonna have a conversation about not getting into those situations again. That you need to think more clearly about the decisions that may follow.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah, and and then the reality is because while we're having these conversations with our children and we're asking them to, hey, like take on these responsibilities, their own friends may not be doing this. Their own friends may not be being as responsible as we're asking our kids to. So they may have to kind of also help self-regulate their child their their friends. And when their friends are saying, like, yeah, well, I was with them, but they were doing something that wasn't cool. So you should have what I should have probably called you and said, Hey, like, my friends are doing something that's not cool. Can you come and come and get me? Or what should I do? Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

You know, so I think those are things that are Yeah, for sure, for sure. And then I think lastly, about kind of the the practical parental moves is reinforce this sense of listening for them, but giving them these lessons and these learnings from these small mistakes. Yes. Because you gotta keep it relevant to their lives. What's going on now? If you do this, then you're not going to be able to go out because you hadn't done the right thing that you should have. And and and it's more that versus if you do this, well, you're not gonna get into college and you're not gonna get married. That that's that's that's in the distance. Yeah, that's not something relevant to their lives right now. It's more, well, we know the responsibilities of having to clean up as we do in this house, so that you can go out and do all the things that you want to do because you have finished with this task now, you can move on to the next thing and not leave it for somebody else. Yeah. Just small mis stall, small mistakes that they might have made in in the routine of their life, their lives that you know, do this and then you can move on to this other thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Yeah. And I think I think another thing we talked, I'll I'll go back, I'll kind of bridge it. A little bit of like be practical, try not to be fear-based. I think the other part is try not to overreact. True. Right. Because kind of like what you went through with the the the emergency phone call being a trigger, yeah, like you could have overreacted. You could have been that 20-minute 20-minute ride from the mall to home, could have been 20 minutes of you laying into laying into your daughter, into Miela, yelling, screaming, overreacting, letting the the fear get to you. And in that case, your reaction may not be proportional to the to to the to the occurrence, right? So we have to be also aware that when these situations come up, when these lessons, these opportunities for lessons come up, that we're not overreacting because when we overreact, our our daughters, our sons will trust us less.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Right. And the they may hear and that as we're yelling and overreacting, that we're mad at them. No, we love them and we want them to understand to be safe. Here are the things that you need to think about. It was a practical lesson. The lesson is lost in the yelling if you're not having a conversation that is focused on where to listen to speak to their listening.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I think let's, you know, let's let's like be very clear. Like places like the malls and parks, all these public spaces, like those are the common places that people get that we think about, you know, kids getting approached or overwhelmed or something like that, right? Like that's those are gonna be the ones that that are regular, right? Yeah, but then it's those other places that you know, like Miela, you know, not eating. Yeah, right, that you gotta kind of pay attention to. Like you want them to be and reduce the moments where they're less at risk, right? You know, right. Um and I think that's gonna be important places that we that we lean in to these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that in those situations, those environments, this idea they can get separated from their people and they can be approached. And and you know, we it can be a seriously overwhelming situation if they don't know how to handle it. I mean this time it was a medical situation for for my daughter, and it was avoidable in the situation, not the eating and keeping herself hydrated, more the eating. Yeah. She loves water, so which is a well that was a good habit. At least she's hydrated. Yeah, she's hungry, but she's hydrated. But at the at the same time, in these moments, this is where she can be the most vulnerable and she's at the greatest risk. Yeah. And so we're trying to mitigate these situations. Yeah. So, any kind of thoughts about this?

SPEAKER_00 49:03

No, I mean, like readiness. Like, we just gotta teach our kids to like take care of themselves. Don't let yourself go hungry, right? Like, be aware of how you're feeling. I think it's always like, to your point, like that woman on the train was able to look at you and be like, hey, I'm about to pass out. Like she's an adult, she's and she's I'm sure hyper focused on her health because of her pregnancy as well. But like our daughters, our children, men and women, young, young men and young women, they have to get to a point where they recognize, here's how I'm feeling. Yep. Physically, here's how I'm feeling mentally and emotionally. Here's like all of these be, you know, being able to do that. And then like people again, they're looking for kids who are lost, disoriented and lost. It's like you see the the kid in the middle of the, you know, the kid in the middle of the grocery store wandering around, right? There's somebody who's looking at that kid, like, oh my gosh, where's his mother? And then there's somebody looking at that kid like, oh yeah, where where's your mother? Yeah, where exactly. Where are your people? Okay. Oh, they're not here from this way.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Oh right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

So I think that, you know, teach our kids their body, like being safe. It's it's it's it's part of who and how they identify, like they have to protect it. And then, I mean, basic, get something to eat. Don't leave the house hungry. Like, this is lessons that our parents always teach us growing up. Like, don't leave the house hungry. Right. Right. And that's not because you don't go out and have to spend money and waste money. It's no, it's for your health and your safety. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

As we said, it's this this physical readiness equals safety. Right. You know. So I mean, hey man, in in this situation, I think what I learned most is that and what hit me the most is she was okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

It could have gone a lot worse. Yep. Uh could have could have been, I should say, a lot worse and gone a whole other direction and quickly. Yeah. But uh folks were there to kind of look after her. So I'm I'm just thankful for that.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah, and sometimes it's not about like you again, thankfully your situation ended up fine. Yeah. Right. And it's sometimes it's not about what happened, it's the worst case, what could have happened. And a whole bunch of, you know, you you you you live life hoping that 99.9% of moments are okay, and it's like, well, what could have happened? There's gonna be something that happens, and it's like, well, what happened? Yeah, right. But the worst case, you know, could have happened. And we always say, you know, you you plan for the best, you hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Yeah, the schematic. Um, yeah. But no, I think this was a good, good discussion to have. I know there's a lot of people in our community out there who are walking on eggshells, letting their daughters, their sons leave every day anxious. Yeah. But you know, there's a lot of conversations that you can have with them before these events happen so that they know where the fire extinguisher is when you somebody puts a little bag of chips in the city. When the science experiments. Sorry, Ron. Yeah, when the science experiments. As well as they know, let me take that bar with me, even if I'm not hungry. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Just whatever little food to just kind of get them through. And I think as Jamal and I mentioned, we have this greater heightened sense of something happening and hoping that our children can respond because we've already gone through loss before.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

And so it's this extra sense and weightiness going into the situations. We gotta, we gotta let our children grow and become independent. That that's why we have the family structure so that they then go out and then they can repeat just that same structure for them if they get married or if they just have dogs and cats like Zoe Pennies. Dude, there's nothing wrong with dogs and cats. I love dog and cats. I don't need a comment because I said that.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

All right, just we're pro-dogs.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yes, very pro-dogs.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

But we're pro-children.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

You're pro-children, more importantly. And so we thank you again for joining us on Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Comment, send us, follow us, follow us on your favorite podcast, platform, subscribe, like, thumbs up, do it all, all the stuff. We appreciate you joining us. Thanks. Thank you for joining us on Getting Back Up, finding life after death. If something in today's episode spoke to you, pass it on, because somebody out there needs to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

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SPEAKER_00 53:43

And be sure to subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And remember, getting back up is part of life. But getting back up is how we live. We'll see y'all next time.