40: Why Am I Still Angry?

Episode 40: Why Am I Still Angry?

For many widowers and grieving spouses, anger doesn’t always show up in the beginning. Sometimes it arrives later—after the funeral, after the shock, after life gets quiet again. And when it does, it can feel confusing, constant, and directionless.

In this episode, Jamal and David have an honest conversation about the anger that lingers after loss. The short patience. The irritability. The frustration that shows up in parenting, work, relationships, and everyday life. They talk about survivor’s remorse, emotional exhaustion, and what happens when unprocessed grief quietly leaks into everything around you.

More importantly, they explore how to recognize anger before it takes over, why suppressing it makes things worse, and how movement, conversation, self-awareness, and grace can help you process it in healthier ways. Because anger after loss doesn’t mean you’re broken—it may simply mean there’s still pain trying to find somewhere to go.

Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death is a podcast that explores the raw, unfiltered reality of surviving profound personal loss—and finding a way forward.  The idea for the podcast was born after David and Jamal met in 2023. Both widowers, who had lost their wives to cancer, quickly found a deep connection through multiple conversations about pain, perseverance, and parenthood. They realized that while men often bond over music, sports, or TV, they rarely speak candidly about loss or emotional recovery. Getting Back Up was created to change that narrative—blending the everyday with the existential in a format that’s as relatable as it is real. 

Getting knocked down is part of life. Getting back up is how we live. 

Hosts: David McClain & Jamal Jones
Executive Directors: Marlon Jackson & Ted Winners (Like A Gazelle Productions)
Editing: Marlon Jackson
Music: 
Grenada, "Treasure" 
McDonald, Otis, "Phife for Life", otismusic.com

Thank you for listening! Follow us on Instagram/TikTok @getbackuppodcast and on X @GBUpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Getting Back Up with Greece Meeting. Two men, two fathers, and one shared journey of rebuilding.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

We're talking about life after cancer, love, love, and everything no one tells you.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

How you doing? I'm Jamal Jones. And I'm David McClain. And this is Getting Back Up, Finding Life After Death podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Yeah. Um, this is uh this is one that's interesting because you go through phases of it. And specifically I I like I remember being mad like after losing Janice. Like the immediacy, my late wife Janice, like the immediacy of losing her. I remember being mad. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Um that's and that's the worst kind of anger. Yeah, yeah. Because it can be one thing or many things, or and it's not anything specifically.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yeah, because it's just sitting there, right? And like you don't like why might you you wake up, you're angry, and it could be triggers by by different things. And I think that's the hard part because you don't know where it's coming from and why it's there sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, that's what we want to talk about today. It's this idea, it and it is an anger, but I think it's a little more layered than that. And so we'll kind of kind of get into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah, because it it sticks around for a lot longer than people realize. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's for and it's then you as you as you go through it, you realize it presents itself in in different ways for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, it um yeah, and I think what we want to do is our intention today really is so you understand it, that it's not it's something that it's gonna quietly kind of shape you and you you're gonna live with it. It's just it's just going to show up. That that is the reality of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, and I think it's as I think about like like I said, it was much different phases, but I think the immediacy, I think that's easy. You're still going through the funeral and planning and all of that. That yeah, that makes sense. But it's how it presents itself later down the line, like when things settle, yeah. That's the one where it's like, wait, why why am I feeling this way right now?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, there's there's there's no clear target on this. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah, it's just yeah, it's exactly it's just how you feel. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

So kind of getting into it, I think what what this really is, it's it's anger without direction. As I said, to start, it it's all amorphous kind of everything that's happening at once.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, it's nowhere specifically to put it. It it just spreads, it goes all over the place, it presents itself in different different aspects of your life, your day-to-day. Um places you just don't expect some things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think so. I mean, as we think about like the the main thing, so where it shows up and how it shows up, yeah, I think are the ones that you probably are gonna find it kind of confusing. Right? You show up when you start doing things by yourself, you know, parenting. Right. Like when you find out there there might not be anybody else to pick up the kids. Yeah. You that has to like manage your schedule and move things around, um work, you know, it can be small things that just kind of like trick, you know, kick you off. And I don't think it's like uh this in very, very intentional fuel-filled, fiery-filled anger. Right. It's more like I can't, I can't believe that this is where I am or this is the situation.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

I have all these other things, but it exacerbates the idea of it's just me. Yeah. So it's the things that may seem normal that you that you deal with, but they'll they add up and it starts to to bother.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, I mean sometimes sometimes you could call it like survivor's remorse. Yeah. Right? Where you are like, man, yeah, the partner should be here for this experience, graduations, birthdays. And the reality of those is that can happen early in your in the grieving process, in your experience, and it can happen late, yeah, in the process, right? Like eight, nine years removed, and it's Mother's Day or birthdays or different days where forget the diamond, take the dynamic. You know, I'm I'm talking like parenting scenarios, especially where this other parent is missing from this experience.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And that person that parent has the know-how experience dealing with that.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And and so you someone does that, and then you do the other thing. Right. You know, cause I can think about as a single parent now when children get sick.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

And you have to stop, and it's not one parent doing one, the other, and then you go about work or whatever it is that you need to do. It's I gotta stop and I've gotta change my whole schedule in that.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

I don't I don't have another person to follow on, follow on in that way.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

It's in in the theme of basketball season, you can't pass the ball, I guess Amy's season. Soccer or true, you know, or or any like you can't pass the ball in, you know, when it's just you. Yes. Right. You know, you gradually you find the friends, the relationships, the the family members that could that you could tag in, you know, tap in as you need to. But like in that immediate moment, right, your first phone call used to be this person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Right. I babe, can you do this? Cause I right, yeah. Right. Yeah. And so those those those little things that that when your patience becomes shorter. Yes. Especially when you're you're working with your kids and you just you you get you reach it faster, that that patience. You gotta really think about it at times and realize, well, why am I feeling this way? Yes. Because you are the only one. It's overwhelming at that time.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah. That's definitely where it shows up. I like the idea around like the everyday inconveniences. You know, I remember times, you know, going grocery shopping and you know, I hate grocery shopping. I was telling you that earlier. And, you know, you go to the grocery store and you get everything and get home and you start making dinner and you forget that ingredient, yeah, and you're mad. Like at that moment, you're mad because, man, why did I forget that ingredient? Yeah. Right? There's somebody else you could have talked to, but you might take that frustration out in that moment. Or your late wife or partner would have might have been the one to remind you.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

That's right. Don't forget baby, make sure that cayenne's in there.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah, maybe that would yeah, exactly. So you know, make sure it's coconut milk and not coconut cream.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Right?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Apparently there's a difference, right? So yeah. And and I think also where it shows up the sense of anger is the people who don't get it. Yeah. Because it's all on you, yeah, and and they may not understand because they haven't gone through the seasons that you have, and they just they just won't understand.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, I think the the the part about this one that's really interesting is you forget in kind of the the quiet moments. If you know, you kind of forget and think that, oh, this will pass. This this moment of anger will pass. And we're saying it's it's not deep anger all the time. Sometimes it's just like annoying anger, annoyances that this I can't believe this was this is something that she would like, or this is something that we had done together, or this is something that the kids would want to have her here for, right? And and I say this even in my scenario where you know Janice and I didn't have like the greatest marriage, yeah, right toward the back end of our marriage. So and and I still say that. I still say, man, like she would have appreciated this birthday or Zaya or Jackie or Tahir would have gotten they would have wanted her here for this. Your other children, right? Yeah, my other children. And that's the part where it's just like you're angry about that, you're angry about loss. You can be okay, you could do that. That's fine. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

I I I I think you're absolutely right about that. It's there there's still that sense of absence and loss. You you could have moved forward in so many ways. Yeah. Probably the way your late life wife would want you to. And she said to you, do things differently, and that's what she means. And that also is not forgetting what her contribution was at that time. So, you know, you see you definitely see that. I I think when we talked about this a whole episode or at least half, is is dealing with with all the systems, insurance companies, the government, as it relates to medical, any kind of finances. I mean, A, we were real about it in a prior episode. It's this idea of now the money coming in is all on me.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

I'm damn the systems, at least before, you know, and I say this thinking back, yeah, because I'm grateful now, you know, remarried and Jordan, my wife, she takes a good amount of the system management.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

And she's good at it, and she's good at it. And but then we also divide and conquer, right? Right. There's something that we and I think that's another part when it's all on you, those things that you used to divide and conquer. Yeah, it's and again, you're not you know, vehemently this, this, this, this rage behind you, but it's just like, man, I I gotta do this by myself.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

It's agitation. Yeah, it's agitation, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

So it's you're going through all of these different phases, these different aspects of of anger, annoyance, and yeah, you know, you know, how does it present itself physically um in different moments? Like we talked about, it could be like the tenseness, the shortness, yeah, you know, like and it could in some cases, depending on what it is, it could present itself as anxiety, um, you know, an inability to relax and find calm. Yeah, because you're like now, I think that's an important part of like again recognizing what it is, why it exists, where you are, you know, find a name for it, you know, why this thing would have been, you know, why this experience would have been important to her, why this experience would have been important to the kids, or what you would have gotten out of it. I think it's important to be be in those places. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Um I think if we think about what has surprised us about this, and for others, and we all will deal with this differently, is just how long it can it it has stayed around that you know it may not it's not something that you completely conquer because these situations where it's on you and and that is in high relief that you realize and see it, you know. I think in stark relief, I should say, is you you really do feel it.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's it's I think the severity of it is is temporary. But it's it it in of itself is not temporary. Yeah. Right again, the the memory process, the grief and process is complex, and it's it's in some cases, it goes through stages and phases. Um, and you know, whether it's one year, five years, ten years, there's gonna be some element of you that can always retrospectively or look back and say, oh man, like this would have been a good time. This this this my late wife or whoever, man, they might have appreciated this. Or oh man, I we wanted to go to the you know, Mount Rushmore. I don't know, like whatever. So, but there's a there's a part of you that's always gonna be like, you know, bringing that's gonna kind of be be aware of that. Yeah. Um, and again, I think the the part of it is that you have to pay attention to is the the severity of that anger, the severity of that, and this is as you go through all of these phases and all these steps, it's not letting the severity stay.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Where it at the highest level. It's recognizing that gradually the levels come down. Gradually the the the frustration, the anger comes down. But I think the the surprise isn't, you know, when it shows up, that's gonna be a surprise. How long it stays down, yeah, and when it presents itself, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Like and and for those who have lost someone, it it will it will always be there to some degree. It's it's it's managing and getting better about it, but I think you'll be surprised maybe that I mean, I still feel this way. Yeah, because there's might maybe something that you have forgotten about that relationship that shows up much later.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I mean, I I'm sure that's kind of I mean you have to think about it as like you're going through this constant photo album in your head. Yeah. Right? There's a constant retrieval mechanism that's you know, I I always I think it's hilarious. Google, Apple, they all present, they all do the photo thing, right? And they present the photos from 10 years ago and 15 years ago. And remember this person, remember the birthday, and you're like, oh man, like that. I don't even I would thank you. I wasn't even thinking about that. Right. But it's it's it's a part of it where you you still get to be connected and human and like you like, okay, well, I still care. That's good, I still care, and that's fine. But I think that's the surprise, you know, when it shows how long it sticks around is definitely there. Um and then the one is that it doesn't always have a clear target, right? There's not always like a very specific thing. Yeah. Um, I don't know, like what what else surprised you that you found was is in your experience so far?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

It's just about that specific target piece. It yeah, and it's just because it's you start to if you're concentrating on the one one thing that you have to do if if it relates to something with the house or getting that child at managing the the multiple schedules, getting somewhere, but then add on and have all these other things to do. And and so this my movement kind of slows a little bit because I have to write, I have to manage all this. Oh, and then I have to think per season. Oh, we're trying to go to this place, and I've I've got to plan that. Yes, and I've got to see the best prices flying, X, Y, Z, all of those things, and you just want to quit sometimes. Yeah, you know, and I think when I get angry, it and what has surprised me is I expire during the day because I go through my day, all that I do, and getting myself up and do my little exercises, the first part of my stuff, making sure the children get in the bathroom in their schedules and that folk are late. The girls are late. Yeah, and then getting them there. They may have something that they have or have not done. Oh, well, you need a permission slip and you need money to go with you. Should we should have dealt with that last night type of thing? But now you're late and now I'll get it later. Yeah. And then going through just the balance of work and just being present for that. Yeah. Um relationship somewhat, but I, you know, it's just I anger in the sense of I won't always have as much time for people at the end of the day. Yeah. Whether I'm in a relationship with somebody or some of my friends, is I want to talk. Right. Sometimes. So it's I think it's I'm just needing time away from my responsibilities. I don't want to be short with someone. So I choose not to call or talk to that person and send them, think about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

And send them a little to say, hey, maybe let me get to you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah, not today. Can't you? Yeah, not today. I can't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

I'm not there today. Whatever. Or at this point in the day. That that that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

No, I think those are good. And I think the the the one, right, that it can take over your mood and your tone. Yeah. Right. And and I think that's evident because that's where you do need to recognize where you are at a given moment. So that you can say, hey, I need some Dave time. Yeah. I need some Jamal time in this moment. Or you can say, Hey, I yeah, I need this time, and this is what I specifically need from this, from you right now, right? So that you can set that. And also in the when you have kids, like to your point, like I think about times where the kids get sick. Or, you know, especially once you once you get the flow, your flow almost becomes methodical. Like I'm doing this at six o'clock in the morning, this is six thirty, this is seven, seven thirty, but seven forty five, everybody's piling up in the car, getting to the front. Like you get this routine, and if anything throws off the routine, right? That's you know, like, in it, like, I can't believe like you're ready to know that right. Right, yeah. The worst is like, you know, you get the routine going, you got two kids in tow, and one's like, my stomach hurts. You like, yeah, right? Like, that's that's just another day.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

That just had another day for me. Yeah, we were about to go to the movie and do all this other, and that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

And now the ret and now you're like, man. Cause then at that moment, you're like, man, if this person was here, yeah, then I just be like, you stay, right? Um, you got her, I got her. We'll see you later.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Right? Yeah, yeah. Text me, let me know how it goes, correct? Well, let me just add to that, and then also what I said before is I think this idea of I had those one of those situations where different plans I'm going about my day. Then we get that remembrance of a certain song. There was this song that I remember that it came on because I was talking to somebody else, and it was this spiritual song that Nalani and I, it hit us both, just square in the heart, chest, whatever. And I that came on when I was commuting to the city. Yeah, I couldn't listen to the whole song. Yeah. So it's that sadness that is occurring alongside the exhaustion of making sure all of these boxes are checked off and you're going to be able to get the bigger.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

And in that moment, you've got all the emotions plus the anger. Sure, plus you know, the the one that I know I struggled with sometimes. Yes. And and it kind of caused me not necessarily lash out at the kids, but I would become more like internal at home and internally, and sometimes it caused me to be stoic. Right. Like, you know, like they didn't know where I was. Right. Right. Which probably meant they're walking on eggshells trying to figure out where I am. Right. Right. True. And and that was the one where like just struggling to not let those changes and that those feelings of anger, frustration, you know, impact how I talked or interacted with the kids.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah. That's that that's real everyday.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

That's that that's something that that folks can definitely struggle with.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

And and you know, I I look at it as a learning lesson or as a lesson. If I could talk about this with the kids, then you know, I should be able to talk to them about anything. Yeah. And and it's not as it's easier, you know, it's easier said than done. Yeah.

unknown 20:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

And where I think we struggle too is, I mean, you had already said it about so then I can start to speak to the kids in a certain way. And if if it's affecting me, maybe I should check with them to see how it's affecting them as well, specific to them. But but but I think you also had uh also mentioned we both did about recognizing that this may show itself, this this sense of anger or agitation, and and and thinking about it before you say or do.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah. Um, you know, I think it's the other part, right? It all this all gets into like what's we always talk about age-appropriate conversations, right? But expressing what we're going through, what we're feeling, why we acted a certain way. Yeah. Right. Like it shouldn't always be the expectation that we're gonna be perfect and in get you know deal with it the right way right out the door. Our kids, it's healthy for our kids to see us struggle. It's healthy for our kids to see us fail. And it's healthy for our kids to see us say, I sh I'm struggling and I failed. Yeah. Right. And I think that's like the the important part of you know making sure that we're expressing these things in a healthy way to our kids and anybody else who's in our in our in our support circle. Yeah. But in particular with our kids to let them know, like, hey, these are things that I'm feeling, and it comes up randomly.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

I can be angry for or upset or disappointed or s or you know, the the full range of that that bubble of of of of anger, yeah. Right, you know, for different reasons. And they're all they may all associated, they may all be associated with the realization and the reminder that. Your mom is not here.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Yeah, exactly. And and as men, we try to pull all of that inward. Yeah. And that inner turmoil, oh no, I uh I'm gonna deal with it. And and then it becomes regret, then it feels like to some degree shame that you you aren't dealing with it in this real macho way. Whatever. That's and and that can be a struggle as well.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

The part that's even, I mean, you you know, think about it, like we're talking probably think about scenarios where we can deal with this stuff privately, you know, in the comfort of our own home, cabin of the car, when the music comes on, and I decide to turn the CNN instead of you know instead of some some some some some song that that's reminding us, right? But I think there's another part like dealing with it in professional settings, right? Like when one, those reminders come, or two, when your professional setting knows your situation, right? And they may poke and probe and comment and make you know they're they're figuring out their own way to support you, or maybe not, right? Maybe they don't care, but something's gonna happen, and now you gotta hold it together in a professional setting, right? Now you gotta figure out how do I deal with this anger or this this moment that just arose.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Don't don't they know that I have this loss? Yeah, and it's not like it's gonna be filled in because that person is gone. Exactly. So and and you're in the back of your mind, you're thinking that they've moved on, but you can't. You don't so yeah, it is it is difficult in that way to to really kind of manage that.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah, yeah. You know, and then we always you know letting it go instead of holding on to it. You know, I think we always say like embrace the emotions, understand them, trying to process it. Um, I think those are important things that are necessary in a process. Like just you know, don't don't shy away from the anger, the those feelings. Just kind of lean into them and understand, like, okay, yeah, you know she she would have been, she would have appreciated being at this event. It is very annoying. I mean, I I just having to do this grocery shopping.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

You know it's immediate gratification for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah, I don't know you love it. I don't know any brush. I I really do like just yeah solid carts, cart, yeah. I go with the list, brother. You know that. I have you know I have my favorites and I don't know. You know I have the stores that I try to avoid.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

But but but yeah, but but you know, admitting that you might have still been angry. Yeah. That that's that can be a struggle as well. And just just recognize a thought, I thought I'd move past that. Yeah. But that can be a struggle as well. Just admitting, I may need more time or different processes.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

And I think another part of it is admitting what you're angry about. Sometimes the anger is not about you. It's about like I know for me, I'm angry for the kids. Yeah. True. I'm more angry for the kids than anything. They don't have their that they don't and and and you know, like you can you can put all the perfect puzzle pieces around them family, friends, uh, an amazing supportive, you know, partner or or a spouse if you if you get remarried, but there's still a part that you're angry that like man, but but they don't have their mom, right? And and I think everybody needs to kind of accept that you'll find your place there every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

With with all the and with all these things that we talked about with struggle, we know and have to recognize what can make it work. It's not acknowledging it. Yeah. That all of these thoughts and situations not addressed properly, it it's gonna make it work.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah, you can't push any you can't push that down. You because you again you have to like process it and understand it. The more you push it down, the more that fire just builds up. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

And shoveling coal right in.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

That's it. Yeah, yeah. Um, so you you have to, you know, understand that and accept that. And then, you know, what again, more things that you know, bottling up, it is there, don't pretend it's not there. Um that that's the probably the biggest thing people could do.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

And more on just if you aren't sleeping and if you aren't taking care of yourself, that's gonna make it worse. And just that physical burnout, whether you're balanced at work, at home, and everything, because you become everything once you are that widower.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Uh that it everything is is on you.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

I you know, I I admittedly was horrible. I used to pride myself on not needing a lot of sleep. And as I particularly as I got older, but also, you know, once I started uh once I started dating Jordan and you know, we started talking about like the importance of sleep and in general health, but also stress management and healing, and also just like closing your eyes, yeah, and going through the process of winding down and letting those thoughts go in and out. Like that's important to do. It's almost kind of like you know, people who say they don't like to meditate. It's like you're meditating when you're falling asleep, right? Like as much as you may not realize it, your body is putting you into a meditative state. And yeah, like not letting yourself go there, that's that's like dangerous for a lot of different reasons. Absolutely. Um isolation. Oof. Yeah, right. Like that'll make it worse. Yeah. You know, you can't you you can't bottle yourself up and you know stay inside and not engage with family and friends. You know, you you have to have those healthy ways to process the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, and I think something that you start early on, particularly in your loss is just replaying what if scenarios. Boy, you can drive yourself crazy on that. It's not it was not up to you. Yeah. And that you have to understand that loss wasn't it wasn't up to you.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah. I think one thing too that that I think about that we've we've talked about it before, is like, you know, feeling like you should be past this by now. Why are you still feeling angry? Why are you still feeling upset? Why did this moment trigger you? Why did this song come on five years later and you're like, oh my god, like you instantly you f instantly feel like moments, you know, you're almost like you know, sh in shock or paralyzed. Like the reality is you are past it, but you're just getting to a different point, right? Right? Like you're you're you're always getting past the past part. There's always something else in front. And those triggers don't always, you know, they don't disappear, they're gonna be there. The severity of them may just change over time, right? Right. And I think that's important to like realize that, you know, like I said, I'm I'm gonna be nine, it's gonna be nine years for me, yeah, since I lost my late wife. And I'm past so much, but I still have a trigger. Right. I still have the moment where I'm like, can't believe, can't believe she's not here. Yeah. I am I I'm mad, I'm upset, I'm disappointed, but again, I know there's for different reasons. Yeah. Right. And and and it does it m say that fundamentally where I am now might be drastically different? Maybe, maybe not. But I do know that she's not here for her and the kids can't experience her.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Right, right. And it's and it's this idea too of this transference of this pain. Right. And and where is that going to going to go? Which the transference and pain be can become anger. Yeah. And so you need that outlet somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

And then and when you talk about like the outlet, like the outlets have to be uh uh it has to be a balance. Like you it's not just Dave and I shooting the shit, catching up, right? Or you, you know, whoever else we we share our experience with or talk to. It's also us finding other ways to r release all of this. So important. But it's whether it's physical, emotional, like working out, going for like all of the things that we've always talked about, like you have to find ways to create balance in your life in order to process and deal with this every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to find a routine. Yeah, there's comfort in good routine and something you can fall back on where you're you're not guessing and grasping at things. Yeah. Go back to what kind of can work and then expand upon that for sure. So so what what what's kind of help is is really this recognizing this anger. Recognize it early before it really escalates. And that that's definitely the help that that you can give yourself.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, yeah. And and understand, like, I think the important, like, letting your kids know, particularly if you're a single, if you're if you're a parent, like letting them know, hey, today was tough. Today I had a moment. Because that allows them to go into you and say, hey dad, I had a moment today.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Right. And now you're both sharing something that you you all you you get to share something that is relatively not to say simple to talk about, but healthy to talk about. Makes it easier. It makes it easier that, oh, okay, you too.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

That dialogue can happen.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Right. Yeah. You know, I think that's something that like it's important to and and it's modeling this parenting too for them, for them.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Because what you and I talk about all the time about this original programming, how we grew up in our households, good, bad, whatever that made sense, the interactions that we saw with our parents. Right. We take that, we go to our own, and we start our family. We're those children who are now adults. And so now it's for us to understand there's an audience to what we're doing. Right. So I think I like what you said there. Because then that gives them a sense of, oh, well, we can talk about things, you don't have to stuff it down. Or someone could display some agitation, some anger, but they diffused it and they're we're having a conversation about it with my parent. Yeah. Age appropriate. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Um, and I think it, you know, there's there's a lot of different ways. Just, you know, give your spell yourself the space. You know, when when when you feel like something's hitting you, give your spells the self the space to breathe it out, think about it, what is this, before you actually react. Yeah. You know, and like if you gotta change the music, that's no problem. Right? It's all good. Change the song. Yeah. But like give yourself the space to process it, not necessarily escape it, right? I think in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

So yeah, and as you and I know, because you and I will talk often, just you understand. You have someone I can call and we can talk these things out. And then also some others who may have not had the same history as we do. Yeah, some others, as I can think about, especially to get a female perspective on some of this as well. Right. So we uh Melody Rollins, who was on a past episode of ours, who lost her husband, the two part that she talked about losing her husband. That's somebody I can call. Because she understands. Yep. And so there's a shorthand we have, she'll understand, and then I she may be feeling the same way.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Or going through it, and yeah, yeah, because this same song I told you about, the spiritual that had come on. Yeah, this song is cut like praise and worship type song. This is a beautiful song. I told Melody, hey, this came on, I couldn't finish it. And it was a beautiful song, and I let her know about it. She said, That's a great memory for you to hold on to. Yeah, that's something you two share, only you two shared. Yeah, she and she said, I needed to hear this today. So that made me feel good too. Because you might have had something going on too.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Exactly. Something else that maybe not a song, maybe something totally different. But it was a that memory that you you gotta figure out how do I process this. And it's and and somebody's saying, Hey, it's okay to process that. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think that the the main thing is, you know, if you're listening and you're you you've got that underlying anger, that underlying pressure or stress of like you've you've got these moments that flow in and you don't know what to deal with them, or you're struggling with how to process them because there's something you feel like you have to get away from.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, like that's why we're talking about it. That's exactly why. That's why we're talking about it. Because you you you you can't because if you don't deal with it, it's going to find residence in everything that you do and disrupt what it is that that that you're trying to do with other relationships with people uh in your household or outside, and maybe in professional situations too. Who knows? So what if anger isn't the problem?

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Yeah, what if it's I mean what what if it's just unprocessed, you know, some unprocessed emotion that you're trying to work through.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Like trying to trying to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah, you're trying to get it someplace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I mean that changes how how you look at it. When you when you really put a name on it, as you said before, uh, that helps. Yeah. Um for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

So I didn't say put a ring on it. I said yeah. Put a name on it. Put a name on it. Yeah, yeah. Not a ring, put a ring. That's right. That comes later. Yes. But if if it's if it's in the car, if it's in the cars, yeah. Yeah. But no, I mean the the the main part, like the think about it, like the important thing, the first thing is to recognize it. Right? When it starts flowing in, when you feel it, just pause and recognize it. Yeah, don't don't don't ignore it. Don't ignore it. Don't try to stuff it down. Just like you gotta you gotta deal with it. Yeah. Um, and then the second, like I saw, I keep saying, like, name it. Like that's been coming important for me. And I know it's not always easy to understand what the primary you know, the primary emotion. Yeah, right. The primary was emotion is I'm I'm angry right now. Yeah. The secondary is like where you really are angry or are you annoyed or are you bothered or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Just agitation.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Agitation, right? It all stacking up on you. Yeah, yeah. But once you get to that third level of understanding what caused that agitation or frustration, like that's in in and what is what is it specifically, then you then it like you've reached another kind of win. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah. Then you channel it. Yeah. And you have to find a way to channel it, whether it's through work, uh some kind of of movement, getting out of your situation geographically, physically, yeah. Just just something productive. I think that's what you have to kind of move to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yep. And then I mean, you know, in in again, how's it showing up? Where is it showing up? Yeah. Right? Is this something that's recurring? Is this something that's making you talk sideways to your friends and family, or you lashing out at your kids, or whatever? Like those are things that you I think it it helps you process that. It helps you to process that and understand how is this making me? How is this and if it's nothing, if it's fine, nothing. I'm processing, I'm dealing with it, had a good reflection moment, and man, that's yeah, we she's gonna be missed. Like, that's fine too. Yeah, you know, so I think there's a whole lot of ways that this hits.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, there's for sure. And uh, you know, if you're still angry though, it's all right, yeah. You're not behind, right? Nope. So you you just you've it's happened, you just haven't been shown where to put everything at that point yet. So I think it may take a little time, take that time, as we have said before. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

So as we are, you know, you just have to figure out where to put all of this, how to unpack it, what to deal with all of, and you know, it's it's part of the process. Yeah, that's it. There's no question. But we appreciate as always you joining us and take each day, always, always be forgiving of yourself, right? And embrace those around you who are always there to help you and talk through these these moments. Like D hit me and say, I just heard a song. Yeah. And I said, I feel you, brother.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

I didn't know what song, but I know the I know the experience. I know the you know, I feel it.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

So yeah, just take that time, take that, don't move so quickly to anger or agitation and put a name up, recognize it for sure. So well, we thank you again for joining us. Hopefully, the anger doesn't rise to a level that it disrupts your lives as it can.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Sounds like let it out, don't keep it contained. Yeah. All right, have a good one. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for joining us for getting back up, finding life after death. If something in today's episode spoke to you, after the moment, because somebody out there needs to get it.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

So follow us on Instagram and TikTok. Mostly it would be in the form of podcast.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

And be sure to subscribe to us on Spotify Apple or whatever you get your podcast. And remember, getting Spotify.